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Winehole23
12-17-2014, 11:38 AM
We're even less aware that Barry Goldwater's emphasis -- Law and Order -- formed Phase 1 of the backlash to civil rights.

Law and Order -- the American political strategy of choice the last 50 years -- did not put Goldwater in the White House in 1964, but Richard Nixon rode it there in '68 and Ronald Reagan used it to move into the California governor's mansion the same year.


L&O justified Nixon's drug war, harsh sentencing guidelines, the demonization of black offenders, and the preference for order rooted in fear and punishment. Law and Order spawned America's mass incarceration.


As a result, a decade-long era of organized civil disobedience in objection to legalized segregation and inequality produced a handful of useful laws that have been thwarted by a half-century of legalized mass incarceration and inequality.


It's segregation by incarceration. The great author and law professor Michelle Alexander calls it "The New Jim Crow."
Segregation by incarceration (SBI) has pitted the African-American community vs. the police. Segregation has never been a shadowy, impossible-to-pin-down conspiracy. It's been an American way of life. The people who opposed the civil rights movement and the end of segregation did not hold a news conference, concede defeat and pledge support for racial equality. They hatched a new strategy.


Segregation by incarceration removes the offensive, in-your-face, whites-only signs and replaces them with strategic enforcement of criminal laws that: (1) segregate poor people behind bars; (2) segregate ex-cons and their loved ones outside the traditional pathways to the American dream, aka, upward mobility.


SBI is much worse and more corrosive than Jim Crow.
Jim Crow had unintended benefits. It forced blacks to build and rely on their own economic, educational and social systems. SBI is a silent killer with no benefit. It extinguishes hope.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/11984741/whitlock-why-black-folks-breathe

Winehole23
12-17-2014, 11:39 AM
There is no widespread epidemic of cops shooting and/or killing unarmed black men. That's a false flag waved by the uninformed, the lazy and the crowd that needs Ebola and ISIS and disappearing airplanes for traction. Police killing unarmed men of any color is a man-bites-dog tragedy. It's rare, which is what makes the occurrence so television titillating. Of course, every instance is one too many, and as a society we should do everything we can to prevent it. But all this talk about "the talk" that black parents must have with their sons about interacting with police is slightly misguided.


Have "the talk" with your child about drinking and/or texting while driving, things far more likely to physically harm a child or adult than the police.
If you want to give additional substance to the activist/protest energy fomenting America, talk to lawmakers about the instructions and priorities they've given to law enforcement.


Talk about the real plague -- segregation by incarceration.

angrydude
12-17-2014, 11:54 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1rIDmDWSms

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/the-relentless-conservative/the-democratic-partys-two_b_933995.html


"I'll have those n*ggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years."
~ Lyndon B. Johnson to two governors on Air Force One

I had never heard the above quote from Ronald Kessler's book, Inside the White House before but my father had told me about LBJ's terrible mouth and frightful personality.

If you listen to Democrats (many of you do -- at least those who watch MSNBC and read the NY Times rabidly), you hear fanciful yarns spun so sweetly about how LBJ ended racism, segregation and voting inequality in America. They make him sound like Mr. Rogers.

How long will the Democrats continue their absurd charade? All the while claiming Republicans are racist, meanwhile the Democrats are the party clearly responsible for the contemptible Jim Crow laws. Let's see how proud these secret, racist beliefs make current day Democrats. Let's see how they like the real truth being told about their party.

When I was nine, a friend of my father's worked in the LBJ White House and was unhappily close with LBJ. He was writing a book about his experiences with this foul-mouthed, racist president and somehow I got my hands on it. I was fascinated. I had never encountered such words or their rampant use -- even when no vulgarity was necessary, an inside view of a president that 99.9% of the country never saw.

LBJ was an awful man. He only promoted and signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the 1965 Voting Rights Act because he thought it was politically expedient. He disagreed violently and kept it a secret, something I think is unreservedly detestable. Or is it a common politician's disease?

Let's look at another quote attributed to "Great Society & Civil Rights Hero" LBJ:

"These Negroes, they're getting pretty uppity these days and that's a problem for us since they've got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we've got to do something about this, we've got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference. For if we don't move at all, then their allies will line up against us and there'll be no way of stopping them, we'll lose the filibuster and there'll be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild legislation. It'll be Reconstruction all over again."

Could this be the type of man -- it was whispered -- who had his boss killed to get his job?

Here are more devastating quotes from the 'party that cares' (or pretends to care, to deceive voters):

"Mr. President, the crime of lynching . . . is not of sufficient importance to justify this legislation."
-- Sen. Claude Pepper (D., Fla.), 1938, spoken during a six-hour speech against the anti-lynching bill

"I am a former Kleagle [recruiter] of the Ku Klux Klan in Raleigh County . . . The Klan is needed today as never before and I am anxious to see its rebirth here in West Virginia. It is necessary that the order be promoted immediately and in every state in the union."
-- Robert C. Byrd, 1946, Democratic Senator from West Virginia, 1959-2010, Senate Majority Leader, 1977-80 and 1987-88, Senate President Pro Tempore, 1989-95, 2001-03, 2007-2010

President Truman's civil rights program "is a farce and a sham--an effort to set up a police state in the guise of liberty. I am opposed to that program. I have voted against the so-called poll tax repeal bill ... I have voted against the so-called anti-lynching bill."
-- Rep. Lyndon B. Johnson (D., Texas), 1948, U.S. Senator, 1949-61, Senate Majority Leader, 1955-61, President, 1963-69

"I did not lie awake at night worrying about the problems of Negroes."
-- Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, 1961.
(Kennedy later authorized wire-tapping the phones and bugging the hotel rooms of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.)

"Everybody likes to go to Geneva. I used to do it for the Law of the Sea conferences and you'd find these potentates from down in Africa, you know, rather than eating each other, they'd just come up and get a good square meal in Geneva."
-- Sen. Ernest F. Hollings (D., S.C.) 1993, Chairman, Commerce Committee, 1987-95 and 2001-03, candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, 1984

"I do not think it is an exaggeration at all to say to my friend from West Virginia [Sen. Robert C. Byrd, a former Ku Klux Klan recruiter] that he would have been a great senator at any moment . . . He would have been right during the great conflict of civil war in this nation."
-- Sen. Christopher Dodd (D., Conn.), 2004, Chairman, Committee on Banking, Housing and Urban Affairs, candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination, 2008

To add insult to injury for African-Americans, Bill Clinton, the absurdly-titled, "First Black President," was apparently not as big a supporter of black Americans as his esteemed title would imply. In his book, Ron Brown's Body, Jack Cashill first refers to Clinton's White House as a place where "minorities," such as Brown, "were not only exploitable but expendable."

My final quote on race hypocrisy comes from our current President, Barack Hussein Obama:

From Dreams of My Father: "I ceased to advertise my mother's race at the age of 12 or 13, when I began to suspect that by doing so I was ingratiating myself to whites."

These quotes from Dems are why minority voters are starting to understand how they've been swindled into thinking that the Democratic Party best represents their interests. That's worrisome for Democrats at large. The facts, coming home to roost, will create a major backlash against the Democratic Party.

angrydude
12-17-2014, 11:55 AM
That said, I agree with you.

boutons_deux
12-17-2014, 12:02 PM
"swindled into thinking that the Democratic Party best represents their interests"

well, such black voters, in they exist, then have nowhere to go, since the Repugs represent nobody's interests except the wealthy and BigCorp. Repugs' FUNDAMENTAL strategy in the Confederacy and red states is racism, against blacks and browns.

boutons_deux
12-17-2014, 12:04 PM
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/stickup-kid/?elq=0caf1e6debdb4d4e8b8d5863be1744ee&elqCampaignId=1125

spurraider21
12-17-2014, 02:31 PM
in a vast, VAST majority of cases, crime comes down to a choice you made. sure, the poor tend to commit crime at a higher rate, for obvious reasons. that doesn't excuse them though, and it shouldn't, regardless of race

how much of this has changed since Barry took over? even when the Dems had control of congress? it's become a silly political ploy which has been effective. "vote for us because you're black, if nothing else."

fwiw, i'm not suggesting voting red is going to change things for the better either. it's just more effective marketing on the other side which has reduced a large sector of voters to nothing but their skin color

boutons_deux
12-17-2014, 02:39 PM
"vote for us because you're black, if nothing else."

why would blacks vote for Repugs, the party of racism?

Just about everything the Repugs have proposed or blocked would hurt the blacks (and all poor). Destroying the safety net is another fundamental Repug strategy.

spurraider21
12-17-2014, 02:44 PM
why would blacks vote for Repugs, the party of racism?

Just about everything the Repugs have proposed or blocked would hurt the blacks (and all poor). Destroying the safety net is another fundamental Repug strategy.
im just not in favor of reducing voters to their skin color. i think its silly for blacks to vote on way or another simply due to their being black. how much better has it gotten for the black populace from 2009-present as opposed to 2001-2008, for instance? i just dont think it makes sense, but no doubt its been effective

boutons_deux
12-17-2014, 02:47 PM
im just not in favor of reducing voters to their skin color. i think its silly for blacks to vote on way or another simply due to their being black

skin color is hugely important, defining in USA.

You INSULT blacks by accusing them of voting DEM just because they are black. I give them credit for knowing Repugs haven't been the party Lincoln for many, many decades.

Trill Clinton
12-17-2014, 02:50 PM
he's right. michelle alexander wrote a book on it. one of the best books i've ever read.

http://i59.tinypic.com/2553qqu.jpg

ElNono
12-17-2014, 02:53 PM
in a vast, VAST majority of cases, crime comes down to a choice you made. sure, the poor tend to commit crime at a higher rate, for obvious reasons. that doesn't excuse them though, and it shouldn't, regardless of race

how much of this has changed since Barry took over? even when the Dems had control of congress? it's become a silly political ploy which has been effective. "vote for us because you're black, if nothing else."

fwiw, i'm not suggesting voting red is going to change things for the better either. it's just more effective marketing on the other side which has reduced a large sector of voters to nothing but their skin color

When you break down the crime rate and incarceration rates by race, something just doesn't add up. I don't know what the actual problem is, much less what the solution is, and I don't think voting red or blue is going to solve anything.

But that doesn't mean there's not a problem there.

spurraider21
12-17-2014, 02:56 PM
skin color is hugely important, defining in USA.

You INSULT blacks by accusing them of voting DEM just because they are black. I give them credit for knowing Repugs haven't been the party Lincoln for many, many decades.
when over 90% of a demographic votes in a certain way, its not insulting for me to say it. its just pointing it out.

spurraider21
12-17-2014, 02:59 PM
When you break down the crime rate and incarceration rates by race, something just doesn't add up. I don't know what the actual problem is, much less what the solution is, and I don't think voting red or blue is going to solve anything.

But that doesn't mean there's not a problem there.
i can agree with that. i'm just baffled by the uniform voting patterns.

fwiw, i'd like to see if this sort of statistic has correlation to the crime/incarceration figures, for instance

http://i.imgur.com/ELNST3C.jpg?1

spurraider21
12-17-2014, 03:06 PM
and i'd also like to just come out and acknowledge that i live in SoCal, which comparative to the rest of the country, is more or less pretty open/liberal as far as racial relations go, so my experience/perspective is quite skewed and likely reflects in the attitude of my posts

there probably is a bigger racial motive in other parts of the country that aren't quite as liberal as here, but having not experienced or seen it, i can't really comment on that

ElNono
12-17-2014, 03:10 PM
American Indian only represent 1.9% of the incarcerated population...

Here's an up to date graph on incarceration numbers:
http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_race.jsp

Another interesting thing: over 1/3 of the incarcerated population is hispanic.
http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_ethnicity.jsp

And perhaps the biggest factor: over 48% of incarcerations are on drug offenses
http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp

spurraider21
12-17-2014, 03:14 PM
American Indian only represent 1.9% of the incarcerated population...
they also make up about 2% of the national population. relatively speaking, the numbers are too small there imo to have any real takeaways


Here's an up to date graph on incarceration numbers:
http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_race.jsp

Another interesting thing: over 1/3 of the incarcerated population is hispanic.
http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_ethnicity.jsp

And perhaps the biggest factor: over 48% of incarcerations are on drug offenses
http://www.bop.gov/about/statistics/statistics_inmate_offenses.jsp
i think that one is a biggie. CA just took steps in trying to mitigate that problem. one of the few ballot initiatives i actually cared about during the midterms

http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-ff-prop-47-drug-possession-20141103-story.html

ElNono
12-17-2014, 03:19 PM
they also make up about 2% of the national population. relatively speaking, the numbers are too small there imo to have any real takeaways

That's what I think doesn't quite add up with African Americans: they're only 12% of the overall population, IIRC.

Cry Havoc
12-17-2014, 03:23 PM
i think that one is a biggie. CA just took steps in trying to mitigate that problem. one of the few ballot initiatives i actually cared about during the midterms

http://www.latimes.com/local/political/la-me-ff-prop-47-drug-possession-20141103-story.html

I'm proud of my state. We're currently a billion dollars over projected revenue, we've been in the black for a while now despite "paying in" to the feds, and this move has the potential to save the state half a billion dollars per year if we ease up on putting nonviolent offenders away for long-term/life sentences. Source: http://www.progress.org/drug36.htm

boutons_deux
12-17-2014, 03:32 PM
End Solitary Confinement for Teenagers


A major study (https://www.ncjrs.gov/pdffiles1/ojjdp/227729.pdf) by the Department of Justice in 2003 showed that more than 15 percent of young people in juvenile facilities, some as young as 10, had been held in solitary. My own research (http://www.hrw.org/reports/2012/10/10/growing-locked-down), for Human Rights Watch and the American Civil Liberties Union, suggested that the practice of putting teenagers in solitary was more widespread in adult jails and prisons. A recent Justice Departmentinvestigation (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/nyregion/us-attorneys-office-reveals-civil-rights-investigation-at-rikers-island.html) found that at any given time in 2013 as many as a quarter of adolescents held at New York City’s Rikers Island (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/r/rikers_island_prison_complex/index.html?inline=nyt-org) were in solitary confinement. Dozens had been sentenced to more than three months in solitary. Still others were held longer, for more than six months.


Only six states have laws on the books that prohibit certain forms of isolation in juvenile facilities. No state — nor the federal government — has banned the solitary confinement of teens in adult jails and prisons.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/12/17/opinion/end-solitary-confinement-for-teenagers.html

It was Barry Goldwater who started the Repugs on the "Law and Order" strategy, then St Ronnie, FBI spy, ran on it as Gov and really went hard on it as Pres. So now USA has a gulag, and wealthy PIC and Drug War, that would be the envy of Stalin.

spurraider21
12-17-2014, 03:33 PM
That's what I think doesn't quite add up with African Americans: they're only 12% of the overall population, IIRC.
if your single parent owns a casino, you're probably doing OK anyway

but more seriously, thats a fair point. i maintain that a 2% sample size is pretty small, but that's still a damning figure. i was looking for a correlation, not really expecting it to line up perfectly, but i still think its a contributing factor.

boutons_deux
12-17-2014, 08:01 PM
Obama grants first commutations under new prison clemency program

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/12/obama-grants-first-commutations-under-new-prison-clemency-program/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

mj down to schedule IV, and release all prisoners serving for possession of 4 oz or less.

velik_m
12-18-2014, 02:47 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/48/U.S._incarceration_rates_1925_onwards.png/800px-U.S._incarceration_rates_1925_onwards.png

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fa/Incarceration_rates_worldwide.gif


At year-end 2007 the United States had less than 5% of the world's population and 23.4% of the world's prison and jail population (adult inmates).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

Winehole23
09-18-2015, 09:59 AM
what if prison causes more crime than it prevents?


There are five times as many people in prison today—nearly 5% of the population will be imprisoned at some point—as there were in the 1970s. The increase in crime during the 1960s and ’70s motivated Americans to get tough on crime, which took several forms (http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/LevittUnderstandingWhyCrime2004.pdf). The most striking of these was putting lots of people in prison. Imprisonment is supposed to reduce crime in two ways: it takes criminals off the street so they can’t commit new crimes (incapacitation) and it discourages would-be criminals from committing crime (deterrence).


But neither of these outcomes came to pass.


A new paper from University of Michigan economics professor Michael Mueller-Smith (http://sites.lsa.umich.edu/mgms/) measures how much incapacitation reduced crime. He looked at court records from Harris County, Texas from 1980 to 2009.Mueller-Smith observed that in Harris County people charged with similar crimes received totally different sentences depending on the judge to whom they were randomly assigned. Mueller-Smith then tracked what happened to these prisoners. He estimated that each year in prison increases the odds that a prisoner would reoffend by 5.6% a quarter. Even people who went to prison for lesser crimes wound up committing more serious offenses subsequently, the more time they spent in prison. His conclusion: Any benefit from taking criminals out of the general population is more than off-set by the increase in crime from turning small offenders into career criminals.http://qz.com/458675/in-america-mass-incarceration-has-caused-more-crime-than-its-prevented/

boutons_deux
09-18-2015, 10:10 AM
what if prison causes more crime than it prevents?

more crime means more criminals, and more profit for the PIC. More criminals and more prisons creates more criminals, more prisons, more PIC profits.

Trill Clinton
09-18-2015, 10:14 AM
ta-nehisi coats wrote on this a few days ago.

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