I wonder what the mid-terms would have looked like had...

[Yonivore]

...President Obama not violated the law and changed a few statutory deadlines or extended subsidies to the federal exchange.

ObamaCare fines loom for uninsured (http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/health-reform-implementation/227364-obamacare-fines-loom-for-uninsured)
$325.00 per adult or 2% of income -- whichever is more. For a single person, the break even income is $16,250, for couples, it's $32,500. Anything above that and your fine, tax, fine, tax, fine, tax goes up.

As it stands, the House of Representatives has the largest Republican majority in 82 years and the Senate back under their control.

[Th'Pusher]

...President Obama not violated the law and changed a few statutory deadlines or extended subsidies to the federal exchange.

ObamaCare fines loom for uninsured (http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/health-reform-implementation/227364-obamacare-fines-loom-for-uninsured)
$325.00 per adult or 2% of income -- whichever is more. For a single person, the break even income is $16,250, for couples, it's $32,500. Anything above that and your fine, tax, fine, tax, fine, tax goes up.

As it stands, the House of Representatives has the largest Republican majority in 82 years and the Senate back under their control.

I had forgot what a shitbag spammer you were. I give it to you for generaly getting participation ( this thread an obvious exception), but I swear you take a Cleveland steamer on your chest in 80 to 90 percent of the threads you participate in. Can you point me to a thread where you think you made salient points and "won" am argument. Honestly, since you've been back, it's pretty much been one loss after another...

[Yonivore]

I had forgot what a shitbag spammer you were. I give it to you for generaly getting participation ( this thread an obvious exception), but I swear you take a Cleveland steamer on your chest in 80 to 90 percent of the threads you participate in. Can you point me to a thread where you think you made salient points and "won" am argument. Honestly, since you've been back, it's pretty much been one loss after another...
I make salient points in all my threads.

Take this one for instance; if Obama hadn't arbitrarily and unilaterally changed the Affordable Care Act, with respect to some deadlines and the subsidizing of the federal exchange, I believe the Democrat bloodbath at the mid-term election would have been much worse. Disagree?

[Yonivore]

I had forgot what a shitbag spammer you were. I give it to you for generaly getting participation ( this thread an obvious exception), but I swear you take a Cleveland steamer on your chest in 80 to 90 percent of the threads you participate in. Can you point me to a thread where you think you made salient points and "won" am argument. Honestly, since you've been back, it's pretty much been one loss after another...
Then there are the torture threads.

I contend reasonable people can disagree over the topic; about half the country believes the enhanced interrogation techniques were justified and that they produced actionable intelligence. The other half is split between those who think they weren't or that don't know what they think. I agree with the those who believe they were justified and effective. What I'm finding in here is that it's not enough for people to disagree with the position, they have to make anyone who holds it out to be Satan.

It just goes to the old adage that those on the Right can believe those on the Left of an issue are simply wrong while those on the Left believe those on the Right are evil.

There's another salient point for you.

[Yonivore]

I had forgot what a shitbag spammer you were. I give it to you for generaly getting participation ( this thread an obvious exception), but I swear you take a Cleveland steamer on your chest in 80 to 90 percent of the threads you participate in. Can you point me to a thread where you think you made salient points and "won" am argument. Honestly, since you've been back, it's pretty much been one loss after another...
Then there's Michelle Obama's fabricated racism.

The salient point there is that racism must me so rare anymore that blacks have to make shit up in order for the narrative to stay alive so people like Barack Obama, Al Sharpton, and Jesse Jackson can stay employed -- although, it appears Al Sharpton has trouble balancing his checkbook.

That's the salient point from that thread.

[Yonivore]

And, it's not about winning arguments in here. There's little chance anyone wins an argument in here. It's about spurring participation which, you concede, I've done.

I will, however, admit I'm wrong when I make a mistake. Not something many others in here will do.

I admitted it was premature for me to post the irony thread about the death of David Ruenzel.

I admitted to ElNono that he was right and I was wrong about how the immigration issue came up at a criminal trial.

And, those just happened in the past couple of days.

[Th'Pusher]

I make salient points in all my threads.

Take this one for instance; if Obama hadn't arbitrarily and unilaterally changed the Affordable Care Act, with respect to some deadlines and the subsidizing of the federal exchange, I believe the Democrat bloodbath at the mid-term election would have been much worse. Disagree?

Which races specifically would have been altered by Barry not making procedural changes to the ACA? Prove or at least explain your contention. Without that, it's smoke out of your ass, not a salient point.

[Yonivore]

I've never heard the term, "Cleveland steamer." To what does it refer?

[Yonivore]

Which races specifically would have been altered by Barry not making procedural changes to the ACA? Prove or at least explain your contention. Without that, it's smoke out of your ass, not a salient point.
You're like fucking Chump; a pedantic ankle-biter. I don't know why I bothered trying to engage you reasonably.

The fucking thread title says, "I WONDER..." Jeeze.

It's not like I've got the time research every fucking conversation that takes place in here. It's enough for me to know there was considerable anger over the ACA that many believe had an impact on races across the country. I simply wondered, WONDERED, what might have been different if people had been paying fines since last January and if they weren't having their premiums subsidized out of my pocket. That's all. It was a conversation starter.

[Th'Pusher]

I contend reasonable people can disagree over the topic

That's not represented in your interactions on this board. You've actually suggested ElNono stands with terrorists because he doesn't agree with your position. You've been harping on the polls, insisting you're not in the minority.

You are not a reasonable person and you clearly don't believe reasonable people can disagree over what constitutes torture.

The statement I quoted above is nothing short of a lie from the pit of hell.

[Th'Pusher]

I've never heard the term, "Cleveland steamer." To what does it refer?

Someone taking a shit on your chest

[Th'Pusher]

You're like fucking Chump; a pedantic ankle-biter. I don't know why I bothered trying to engage you reasonably.

The fucking thread title says, "I WONDER..." Jeeze.

It's not like I've got the time research every fucking conversation that takes place in here. It's enough for me to know there was considerable anger over the ACA that many believe had an impact on races across the country. I simply wondered, WONDERED, what might have been different if people had been paying fines since last January and if they weren't having their premiums subsidized out of my pocket. That's all. It was a conversation starter.

You think a fucking $300 tax was going to sway an election? That's a ridiculous assertion.

[Yonivore]

That's not represented in your interactions on this board. You've actually suggested ElNono stands with terrorists because he doesn't agree with your position.
That was after a long thread of people pretty much (maybe ElNono, maybe not -- I really don't pay attention to personalities in here, just posts) contending the Bush administration tortured for the fun of it and are a bunch of evil criminals. No one is even willing to entertain the idea that, even if you disagree with their actions, they may have had noble intentions. So, yeah, I flipped it.


You've been harping on the polls, insisting you're not in the minority.
The two polls I've referenced in here are recent and suggest more than 50% of the American Public believe what the administration did was warranted, justified and effective. Heck, even a few of those that didn't agree it was warrant or justified believe it was effective.


You are not a reasonable person and you clearly don't believe reasonable people can disagree over what constitutes torture.
Well, it's hard to be a reasonable person agreeing with unreasonable people. Both sides have to be reasonable for that to work. I can't even get anyone to examine the particular techniques and why the administration believes they were able to design them where they stopped short of torture. No, all you get in here is the Japanese and a couple of American GIs in Vietnam were convicted of war crimes and/or executed for the same thing when, that demonstrably untrue.


The statement I quoted above is nothing short of a lie from the pit of hell.
Hell? I rest my case.

I simply think you're wrong whereas, you believe I speak from Hell.

[Yonivore]

Someone taking a shit on your chest
Ah, had never heard that one.

[Yonivore]

You think a fucking $300 tax was going to sway an election? That's a ridiculous assertion.
$325.00 is a bunch of money for someone making just over $16K a year. Then, when you get to the lower middle class incomes, the fine escalates. So, yes, I do think it would be a big deal. I believe Obama thought it would be a big deal or he wouldn't have moved the date.

[ChumpDumper]

lol "I wonder"

[Yonivore]

lol "I wonder"
See what I mean, Th'Pusher?

[ChumpDumper]

See what I mean, Th'Pusher?I see what Th'Pusher means.

You're pathetic.

Straight from your email list to this board. Do you get paid per thread?

[Yonivore]

I see what Th'Pusher means.

You're pathetic.

Straight from your email list to this board. Do you get paid per thread?
Says he with 88,253 posts -- 99.9% of which are comprised of insults, nonsensical question, and stupid demands to be personally satisfied by another poster. You should look back at your posting history; you have rarely, if ever, advanced an idea -- you simply attack others over their's.

[ChumpDumper]

Says he with 88,253 posts -- 99.9% of which are comprised of insults, nonsensical question, and stupid demands to be personally satisfied by another poster. You should look back at your posting history; you have rarely, if ever, advanced an idea -- you simply attack others over their's.These aren't your ideas.

[Yonivore]

These aren't your ideas.
You're right; while I've shared my opinions, I generally pull the thread topics from events that have taken place somewhere other than in my presence so, technically, they're not my ideas. Perhaps I should have taken a different approach. You simply attack posters over what they post. I'm sure you'll think of some way to run that in a circle, as well.

I have no idea what you think on anything -- except that you have a obsession over trying to talk posters in circles. You rarely try to advance a position yourself.

There was a time when you and boutons were the fringe and there were plenty of other posters that would engage in a thread. But, those days are gone, I suppose.

I suspect I'll give the forum back you to and boutons as soon as it's no longer entertaining again.

[ChumpDumper]

You're rightThanks.

I advance plenty of positions. I just think challenging those of others is OK.

There are other old dudes who don't like it. That's fine. I eased up on them too.

[Yonivore]

Thanks.

I advance plenty of positions. I just think challenging those of others is OK.
But, you don't challenge, you harangue.

What do you think about Obama changing statute by moving deadlines and adding subsidies that did not exist?

Do you really believe there is no difference between the torture called waterboarding, practiced by the Japanese and, I guess, a couple of GIs during Vietnam, and the enhanced interrogation technique called waterboarding? None? do you even know what rules were put in place to ensure the 2002 incarnation didn't cross over into torture?

Do you believe Barack and Michelle Obama seriously experienced racism after hearing the examples forwarded in that People Magazine piece?

Instead of attacking me for posting them, explain why you think I'm wrong. Just saying I'm wrong isn't an argument.


There are other old dudes who don't like it. That's fine. I eased up on them too.
I'm sorry, I don't even know what you're trying to say here.

[ChumpDumper]

But, you don't challenge, you harangue.

What do you think about Obama changing statute by moving deadlines and adding subsidies that did not exist?No big deal.


Do you really believe there is no difference between the torture called waterboarding, practiced by the Japanese and, I guess, a couple of GIs during Vietnam, and the enhanced interrogation technique called waterboarding? None? do you even know what rules were put in place to ensure the 2002 incarnation didn't cross over into torture?All done just to give the veneer of legality.

Still torture.


Do you believe Barack and Michelle Obama seriously experienced racism after hearing the examples forwarded in that People Magazine piece?Don't care. I expressed my surprise at how serious you were about it.

I'm sorry, I don't even know what you're trying to say here.Great.

[Yonivore]

No big deal.
So, you'd be fine if any President decided to to just rewrite the law?


All done just to give the veneer of legality.
So, why hasn't there been a court decide what they did was illegal?

Why did the Department of Justice decline to prosecute anyone?


Still torture.
How is it torture? When the Department of Justice says the techniques, while harsh, won't be torture if conducted as designed and when no legal proceeding has actually found the techniques to be torture, how can you claim they are torture. What do you know that Eric Holder and every other entity that looked into the matter doesn't know?


Don't care. I expressed my surprise at how serious you were about it.
You don't think racism is an issue? You don't think an African American President and his wife making up stories or misrepresenting stories as being personal experiences with racism is a big deal? Race issues are consuming the country right now and it's no big deal to you?


Great.
I'm sorry, I guess I should have asked. What did you mean?

[ChumpDumper]

So, you'd be fine if any President decided to to just rewrite the law?Not a big deal.



So, why hasn't there been a court decide what they did was illegal?Doesn't have to be one.


Why did the Department of Justice decline to prosecute anyone?Unnecessary.



is it torture? When the Department of Justice says the techniques, while harsh, won't be torture if conducted as designed and when no legal proceeding has actually found the techniques to be torture, how can you claim they are torture. What do you know that Eric Holder and every other entity that looked into the matter doesn't know?The mere fact the people who did it have done nothing but lied about it tells me all I need to know. Didn't work and was unnecessary. Made a bad situation worse. Like I said, impotent overcompensation by chicken hawks who had already made the biggest mistake.



You don't think racism is an issue? You don't think an African American President and his wife making up stories or misrepresenting stories as being personal experiences with racism is a big deal? Race issues are consuming the country right now and it's no big deal to you?What the Obamas said?

No. Not a big deal at all.


I'm sorry, I guess I should have asked. What did you mean?I meant what I said.

[Yonivore]

Not a big deal.


Doesn't have to be one.

Unnecessary.


The mere fact the people who did it have done nothing but lied about it tells me all I need to know. Didn't work and was unnecessary. Made a bad situation worse. Like I said, impotent overcompensation by chicken hawks who had already made the biggest mistake.


What the Obamas said?

No. Not a big deal at all.

I meant what I said.
I guess we're done.

[ElNono]

I make salient points in all my threads.

:lmao

[Th'Pusher]

That was after a long thread of people pretty much (maybe ElNono, maybe not -- I really don't pay attention to personalities in here, just posts) contending the Bush administration tortured for the fun of it and are a bunch of evil criminals. No one is even willing to entertain the idea that, even if you disagree with their actions, they may have had noble intentions. So, yeah, I flipped it.


The two polls I've referenced in here are recent and suggest more than 50% of the American Public believe what the administration did was warranted, justified and effective. Heck, even a few of those that didn't agree it was warrant or justified believe it was effective.


Well, it's hard to be a reasonable person agreeing with unreasonable people. Both sides have to be reasonable for that to work. I can't even get anyone to examine the particular techniques and why the administration believes they were able to design them where they stopped short of torture. No, all you get in here is the Japanese and a couple of American GIs in Vietnam were convicted of war crimes and/or executed for the same thing when, that demonstrably untrue.


Hell? I rest my case.

I simply think you're wrong whereas, you believe I speak from Hell.

The hell reference was obviously a bit of hyperbole. Guess it wasn't that funny.

Regardless, WRT the conversation around torture, there were several reasonable people who simply disagreed with you (and the Bush Administration's) distinction between torture and EIT. ElNono, randomguy and winehole all come to mind. You refused to accept the difference of opinion and continued to parse and harp on the fact that nobody has been prosecuted and the lengths to which the administration went to ensure the techniques were not legally defined as torture.

[Th'Pusher]

$325.00 is a bunch of money for someone making just over $16K a year. Then, when you get to the lower middle class incomes, the fine escalates. So, yes, I do think it would be a big deal. I believe Obama thought it would be a big deal or he wouldn't have moved the date.

You think the lower middle class voted in the last election? There was record low turnout. Old white people voted in the last election, just like every midterm election. If it weren't for midterms and gerrymandering, republicans wouldn't control either house of congress.

[boutons_deux]

Repugs, Fox, right-wing hate media and assholes like pussy eater, who DEPEND on the ignorance and gullibility of their audience, have been lying to USA about ACA, but it seems that TRUTH is fighting back.

The More People Are Told About Obamacare, The More They Like It (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/12/18/3605069/americans-obamacare-sway/)

One year into the full implementation of the Affordable Care Act, Americans remain confused about what the law actually does — and public opinion toward Obamacare is easily swayed depending on small changes to the amount of information (http://kaiserhealthnews.org/news/public-easily-swayed-on-attitudes-about-health-law-poll-finds/) people receive about it.

According to the Kaiser Family Foundation’s most recent monthly tracking poll (http://kff.org/health-reform/poll-finding/kaiser-health-policy-tracking-poll-december-2014/), overall opinion about the law remains negative, even though large portions of Americans do support the specific provisions that comprise Obamacare. The disconnect reflects a general (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/01/30/3229051/americans-know-obamacare/)confusion (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03/21/1753731/obamacare-misperceptions-poll/) about how exactly the law functions; pollsters have been tracking (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/09/30/2699051/americans-confused-obamacare-want-insurance/) this dynamic for years (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2012/06/25/505526/poll-most-americans-support-obamacare-provisions/), even as millions of people enroll in plans (http://kaiserhealthnews.org/news/with-1-5-million-sign-ups-so-far-obamacare-enrollment-is-brisk) on Obamacare’s new state marketplaces.

On top of that, people’s opinions about the law shift a lot when they’re given just a little bit of follow-up information that puts the changes to the health care sector in context, the Kaiser researchers found.

For instance, opinion polling has consistently found that the individual mandate — the requirement that every American purchases health insurance that forms the backbone of the law (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/07/16/2306841/study-individual-mandate-uninsured/) — is deeply unpopular (http://www.npr.org/2012/03/31/149767228/how-did-the-health-care-mandate-get-here). But providing people with more information about the policy can have a big effect on public opinion.

When people who oppose the individual mandate were told that it doesn’t affect the majority of Americans because most people already have insurance through their job (http://www.ahip.org/Issues/Employer-Sponsored-Coverage.aspx), support rose from 35 percent to 62 percent.

When they were told that the mandate doesn’t apply for low-income Americans who would have too much trouble paying the fine, support rose to 59 percent.

And explaining that the individual mandate may prevent people from waiting until they’re seriously ill to buy health insurance, which would ultimately drive up costs for everyone else, nudged support up above 50 percent (http://kaiserhealthnews.org/news/public-easily-swayed-on-attitudes-about-health-law-poll-finds/).

http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/individual-mandate.png


http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/12/18/3605069/americans-obamacare-sway/