Belinelli: Why?

[midnightpulp]

Why does Pock love this asshole so much?

Does Pock not look at plus/minus or something?

[weebo]

Been asking this question myself for a lonnnng time...

[timtonymanu]

Hopefully he gets traded. If he can fool certain Spurs fans into thinking he's a good player, I hope PATFO can fool other teams.

[objective]

Because pop loves it when Marco feeds Boris in the post with a crap pass directly into diaw's toes for a turnover.

Loves it.

[100%duncan]

Maybe because Kawhi Parker and Mills are out

[objective]

Much more likely that Marco gets a new contract than getting traded.

Why pay Green 10 when they can keep Marco for 5?

[Budkin]

He was nowhere near this bad last year. WTF happened.

[Malik Hairston]

I didn't like the signing at the time, but figured he would be at least as good as Neal..he has been much worse than Gary IMO..

He's one of the worst defensive players I have ever seen, tbh..not just with the Spurs, but with any team..

[objective]

Correct. Neal was much better.

[SpursFan86]

Fuck Korver's wife, tbh...can you imagine how good this team would be if we had Korver instead of Belinelli?

[Johnny RIngo]

Front office has really sucked at free agency the past two years:

2013 MLE additions:
Marco Belinelli
Jeff Ayres

2014 MLE additions:
nobody

Marco might be the worst wing player I've ever seen seen suit up for the Spurs. Makes RJ and Udoka look like good players.

[tholdren]

Lmfao udoka... wtftbh

[Nathan89]

Need to play diaw at sf to limit Belinelli time on the court.

[Nathan89]

Signing Ray Allen would be a smart move.

[Mr Bones]

Front office has really sucked at free agency the past two years:

2013 MLE additions:
Marco Belinelli
Jeff Ayres

2014 MLE additions:
nobody




2014 addition: 5th Ring

[Malik Hairston]

With Joseph's emergence, hopefully Pop feels more comfortable in removing Belinelli from the rotation, tbh.

[FkLA]

You can tell Pop likes him. That's the scary part. The thought of him receiving meaningful minutes in the playoffs makes me want to cry tbh.

[ElNono]

He's been bad this season, he was serviceable last one, which is his role...

As for this particular game, well, Kawhi was out and Gino in foul trouble early, so he was bound to get extra minutes...

[Mikeanaro]

He is sucking real bad...Errors-like, maybe his head is busy on twitter and doesnt have time to improve his BB IQ and abilities but boy he is ass.

[timmy2003]

You can tell Pop likes him. That's the scary part. The thought of him receiving meaningful minutes in the playoffs makes me want to cry tbh.

His mins will be limited once Kawhi is back

[hater]

he's probably top 3 shot creating guards in our team. Problem is he is having a rough year. He still can help IMO. But he is having a ROUGH year

[RD2191]

I'd rather play a man down than have scrub ass marco out there.

[Cry Havoc]

Beli likely won't see meaningful playoff minutes. I don't know why Spurs fans are so upset. Hell, Bonner is still playing almost every night... where's the outrage there?

Playoff rotation:

Parker/Mills/CoJo
Green/Manu/CoJo
Kawhi/Manu
Duncan/Diaw
Splitter/Diaw

Baynes and Beli will likely pickup minutes here and there for specific playoff matchups but that's it.

[Brunodf]

Need to play diaw at sf to limit Belinelli time on the court.
Pretty much this, Diaw is better than Belinelli in every way despite being fat/taller :bang

[pgardn]

Pop never overlooks guys who can hit 3's.

33.3% on 3's beats 49% on 2's...

Its apparent Marco knows he is blowing a very good opportunity. He is starting to smack himself upside the head.

[hater]

agreed. a betting man would too. Benchinelli's shot always look on target. he's just having a ROUGH year

[mystargtr34]

I didn't like the signing at the time, but figured he would be at least as good as Neal..he has been much worse than Gary IMO..

He's one of the worst defensive players I have ever seen, tbh..not just with the Spurs, but with any team..

Agreed, as bad as Gary was on D (and Marco is not better) when he got an open 3 i always felt it was going in. When Marco gets an open shot.. I'm expecting a miss most of the time.

[Ditty]

He can occasionally have a good game here, and there but he has been pretty bad lately even on the offensive end. Hope we don't have to rely on him in the post season too much, rather give the minutes to CoJo. If there is a player available at the trade deadline that requires Marco to go, I won't shed a tear tbh :lol.

[FkLA]

Beli likely won't see meaningful playoff minutes. I don't know why Spurs fans are so upset. Hell, Bonner is still playing almost every night... where's the outrage there?

Playoff rotation:

Parker/Mills/CoJo
Green/Manu/CoJo
Kawhi/Manu
Duncan/Diaw
Splitter/Diaw

Baynes and Beli will likely pickup minutes here and there for specific playoff matchups but that's it.

Matty Ice has been very serviceable. Not sure why you are putting him in the same class as Belly.

[ElNono]

He led the league in 3pt % all the way until Feb IIRC, last season... He's having a bad season now, but you can't say he wasn't helpful for us before...

[spurraider21]

last year during the RS he was a treat tbh... played better than most of us anticipated. wilted in the playoffs (props to harlem for the turkoglu comparison :lol), but he's looking nothing like he did last season

[Cry Havoc]

Matty Ice has been very serviceable. Not sure why you are putting him in the same class as Belly.

Yeah? So you'd be comfortable with Bonner suiting up in the post-season and getting on the floor in close games?


He led the league in 3pt % all the way until Feb IIRC, last season... He's having a bad season now, but you can't say he wasn't helpful for us before...

Yep, Spurs fans have become beyond vitriolic toward their own players on this board. Sad to see. Beli even has had a couple of great games for us this year.

[SpursFan86]

With Joseph's emergence, hopefully Pop feels more comfortable in removing Belinelli from the rotation, tbh.

I made that topic a while back advocating Joseph/Mills/Manu for the bench unit with CoJo taking Belinelli's unit...I'm leaning more and more towards that as the season goes on. CoJo continues to impress, meanwhile Belinelli is playing some of the worst defense I've ever seen.

[FkLA]

Yeah? So you'd be comfortable with Bonner suiting up in the post-season and getting on the floor in close games?

Sure, depending on the match-up. Hes a solid 4th big man. Belly isn't a solid anything.

[Raven]

Beli likely won't see meaningful playoff minutes. I don't know why Spurs fans are so upset. Hell, Bonner is still playing almost every night... where's the outrage there?

Playoff rotation:

Parker/Mills/CoJo
Green/Manu/CoJo
Kawhi/Manu
Duncan/Diaw
Splitter/Diaw

Baynes and Beli will likely pickup minutes here and there for specific playoff matchups but that's it.

because we need to get to the play offs first and he is a big issue for that. Just fucking admit you were wrong all the time.

[Cry Havoc]

Just fucking admit you were wrong all the time.

About what? Why so aggressive? Did I shoot down one of your takes recently? Can't remember doing so.

[deibero]

If marco doesnt hit that 3 in game 3 against the heat to push a 30 pt lead that was cut to 8 back to 11 we may have had a different outlook on the finals!

theres a video around of pop helping him stretch and telling him big shot!

that showed balls the miami crowd was ridiculously loud and to have the balls to hit that shot and quiet them down some at the end of the 3rd, that shot alone is worth his contract!

[Raven]

About what? Why so aggressive? Did I shoot down one of your takes recently? Can't remember doing so.

i've been on his hatewagon from the start pointing out all his flaws and you were negating them with awful take after awful take, so you may want to start taking them back. Things such as "he is a lot better on D than neal" or "has a great bball iq" or "hits big shots" or "good passer" are not my invention.

[vander]

If marco doesnt hit that 3 in game 3 against the heat to push a 30 pt lead that was cut to 8 back to 11 we may have had a different outlook on the finals!

theres a video around of pop helping him stretch and telling him big shot!

that showed balls the miami crowd was ridiculously loud and to have the balls to hit that shot and quiet them down some at the end of the 3rd, that shot alone is worth his contract!

Marco was also a primary cause of the lead dropping to 8

[Cry Havoc]

i've been on his hatewagon from the start pointing out all his flaws and you were negating them with awful take after awful take, so you may want to start taking them back. Things such as "he is a lot better on D than neal" or "has a great bball iq" or "hits big shots" or "good passer" are not my invention.

You hate your own players and are proud of it.

Bro, you're just too edgy for me. I can't handle how cool you are.

[Raven]

You hate your own players and are proud of it.

Bro, you're just too edgy for me. I can't handle how cool you are.

so far i hated: Drew gooden, Ime Udoka, Marco belinelli. not many, are they?

[Johnny RIngo]

Anybody that watched the game could see how much better the team played when Belinelli was off the floor. That lineup to close the game was glorious. Hard nosed D from all the players, great execution on offense.

Marco's low IQ, shit defense, and inefficient scoring just doesn't belong on this team. He makes the team so unwatchable any time he steps on the court. He doesn't have the work ethic to improve either - came into camp fat and overweight instead of improving his game over the summer.

[Cry Havoc]

so far i hated: Drew gooden, Ime Udoka, Marco belinelli. not many, are they?

Which is still more than all but the worst of Lakerfandom or Philly fans would. You're truly in rarefied air.

[Cry Havoc]

Marco was also a primary cause of the lead dropping to 8

:lmao So just to be clear, Beli, who was on the court for a total of 6 minutes in Game 3, was responsible for the erosion of a 25 point lead from the midpoint of the 2nd quarter to the end of the 3rd quarter? Where he also hit a 3 point shot in that span?

K.

[Hoops Czar]

He's been bad this season, he was serviceable last one, which is his role...

As for this particular game, well, Kawhi was out and Gino in foul trouble early, so he was bound to get extra minutes...

His offense is serviceable but, his defense is and always has been atrocious. The MLE doesn't double the next year if it goes unused. It's pretty laughable to think the FO didn't think that a backup SF was necessary when taking into account injuries, rest and age. Belinelli is not a playmaker and should NEVER be asked to play more than 15 minutes in a game.

But, to be fair... he was better than Gary Neal with Plantar Fasciitis.

[ElNono]

I liked last season's Marco. He fulfilled the role that was asked of him, helped us secure HCA on a 60-win RS and he didn't get in the way of winning the LOBT. This season's Marco has been pretty terrible, tbh... then again, I don't think it's entirely fair to single him out... a bunch of guys have been playing disinterested basketball...

[ElNono]

His offense is serviceable but, his defense is and always has been atrocious. The MLE doesn't double the next year if it goes unused. It's pretty laughable to think the FO didn't think that a backup SF was necessary when taking into account injuries, rest and age. Belinelli is not a playmaker and should NEVER be asked to play more than 15 minutes in a game.

If Beli would be playing at last regular season level, we wouldn't be having this convo. The Spurs had no way of knowing beforehand Kawhi would be hurt again, Marco would be sucking up a storm and Kyle would look like a bust. Everything looks a lot clearer in hindsight, but there's still time to make a move if the Spurs feel they need to shore up any specific position...

[midnightpulp]

Problem with Marco isn't offense. It's his defense. He can have a 20 point game but will probably give up more on the defensive end. He's clueless and a turnstile on defense, unfortunately. I agree he's an asset to have if his role is to come in and a hit a couple of threes to ignite a run or something, but he shouldn't be getting any more than 10 minutes per game right now.

[ElNono]

Problem with Marco isn't offense. It's his defense. He can have a 20 point game but will probably give up more on the defensive end. He's clueless and a turnstile on defense, unfortunately. I agree he's an asset to have if his role is to come in and a hit a couple of threes to ignite a run or something, but he shouldn't be getting any more than 10 minutes per game right now.

Defense was never his role on this team, much like Neal. It's all about his offense. We now need defense from him because Kawhi is out, but Pop already knows he's not going to get that from Marco. You're looking at this wrong if you expect anything resembling average D from him. The big problem for Marco this season is that he's not excelling at anything on offense. That's a huge problem because that and burning RS minutes is basically his role on this team.

[ElNono]

If Kawhi could play for 30-32 mins, that gives Marco about 15 to play, that's all you would need from him, tbh

[z0sa]

Maybe because Kawhi Parker and Mills are out

[ElNono]

FWIW, I'm not excusing his current season... He's been ass and it's even more troubling because of the fact that we needed more from him now what we're shorthanded.

[cd98]

I think he'll be better once he can settle into a role that doesn't require him to handle the ball so much. No question he's still a good shooter who can hit mid and long range. Problem is that injuries are forcing him to do more with the ball than he is comfortable with doing.

[Hoops Czar]

If Beli would be playing at last regular season level, we wouldn't be having this convo. The Spurs had no way of knowing beforehand Kawhi would be hurt again, Marco would be sucking up a storm and Kyle would look like a bust. Everything looks a lot clearer in hindsight, but there's still time to make a move if the Spurs feel they need to shore up any specific position...

They should have. He hasn't played more than 66 games in a season. Belinelli is killing the team defensively, not offensively, just like he did last year. Kyle was more hype than substance anyway. Nobody expected him to be playing at all in his first season let-a-lone starting. The Spurs don't have any tradeable assets so it's unlikely they'll make a move unless a player falls into their lap.... A.K.A Boris Diaw.

[ElNono]

He had a ton of easy looks and missed them this season... He was money in the bank at this time last season... There are really no excuses for those kinda misses, he's not old or hurt... He just doesn't have the touch this season yet... Might be coasting, slump, the 1st time he goes really deep in the playoffs, whatever you wanna call it. I just hope he can at least give us a lift during the regular season at some point.

[weebo]

I liked last season's Marco. He fulfilled the role that was asked of him, helped us secure HCA on a 60-win RS and he didn't get in the way of winning the LOBT. This season's Marco has been pretty terrible, tbh... then again, I don't think it's entirely fair to single him out... a bunch of guys have been playing disinterested basketball...

not a marco fan but pretty much this

[midnightpulp]

Defense was never his role on this team, much like Neal. It's all about his offense. We now need defense from him because Kawhi is out, but Pop already knows he's not going to get that from Marco. You're looking at this wrong if you expect anything resembling average D from him. The big problem for Marco this season is that he's not excelling at anything on offense. That's a huge problem because that and burning RS minutes is basically his role on this team.

The defense has been much better with Kyle Anderson out there. Don't know why he's in the doghouse already.

[ElNono]

They should have. He hasn't played more than 66 games in a season. Belinelli is killing the team defensively, not offensively, just like he did last year. Kyle was more hype than substance anyway. Nobody expected him to be playing at all in his first season let-a-lone starting. The Spurs don't have any tradeable assets so it's unlikely they'll make a move unless a player falls into their lap.... A.K.A Boris Diaw.

Nah, this hand injury is the first 'repeat' injury he has, and he's a young kid. NOW, we can possibly talk about something chronic. Plus Pop rested Kawhi alongside the big 3 all the seasons he's been around, a consistent topic Kawhifans seem to complain about.

Belli was great offensively last season during the regular season (which is really what his role is). You don't lead the league in 3pt % by being mediocre, and he was part of the top scoring second unit in the league. His defense is what it is. We couldn't afford Neal to suck for the same reason: if they're off their offensive game they're basically a liability. That's what's happening with Marco right now.

[ElNono]

The defense has been much better with Kyle Anderson out there. Don't know why he's in the doghouse already.

Pop gave him a chance the other day, but Kyle screwed up repeatedly. It's difficult with rooks, you can't blame them for being a bit lost here or there, but you also want to teach them. It's clear that if Marco keeps sucking and Kawhi is still out, Kyle will get more chances...

[Mikeanaro]

Im concerned, there will be a true Home Alone 3? Dumb and Dumber To happened...

[Ice009]

They should have. He hasn't played more than 66 games in a season. Belinelli is killing the team defensively, not offensively, just like he did last year. Kyle was more hype than substance anyway. Nobody expected him to be playing at all in his first season let-a-lone starting. The Spurs don't have any tradeable assets so it's unlikely they'll make a move unless a player falls into their lap.... A.K.A Boris Diaw.

Actually, there is posters here who thought he'd get court time and play in the rotation. I wasn't one of them. I wanted the Spurs to draft an athletic SF that can play defense.

People thought Anderson was going to be a young Diaw, but like I said to them, a young Diaw was 10 times more athletic than Kyle.

[Hoops Czar]

Actually, there is posters here who thought he'd get court time and play in the rotation. I wasn't one of them. I wanted the Spurs to draft an athletic SF that can play defense.

People thought Anderson was going to be a young Diaw, but like I said to them, a young Diaw was 10 times more athletic than Kyle.

I would have taken a young athletic wing over a young plopper ten times out of ten times. Maybe he'll turn out to be the next Magic :lmao or a serviceable back up one day, only time will tell. Unless he gets dramatically better on defense, he'll have trouble sticking around in this league long term.

[T Park]

Front office has really sucked at free agency the past two years:

2013 MLE additions:
Marco Belinelli
Jeff Ayres

2014 MLE additions:
nobody

Marco might be the worst wing player I've ever seen seen suit up for the Spurs. Makes RJ and Udoka look like good players.


Uh they resigned their free agents. Another pocket protector basement dwelling Internet troll piece

[Johnny RIngo]

Actually, there is posters here who thought he'd get court time and play in the rotation. I wasn't one of them. I wanted the Spurs to draft an athletic SF that can play defense.

People thought Anderson was going to be a young Diaw, but like I said to them, a young Diaw was 10 times more athletic than Kyle.

Wasn't a fan of the Anderson selection but it's a bit rash to expect instant production from a 21 year old rookie. Spurs typically don't draft high impact rookies since they're always picking so low. Joseph, for example, was a similarly terrible rookie - 2 ppg on 31% with a 6.9 PER. He's now a pretty decent player.

Anderson shouldn't have been expected to fill in for Kawhi - injury spells are when the backup vets are supposed to step up and help carry the load. That was Marco's job and he's failed spectacularly at it. Shit on offense, playmaking nonexistent(forcing Manu to do too much work), defense among the worst in the league. Leonard has a history with injuries. The front office should have expected this and brought in a backup wing with the MLE instead of expecting a low IQ, fatass Italian and a rookie to be more than adequate backups for Kawhi.

[Johnny RIngo]

Uh they resigned their free agents. Another pocket protector basement dwelling Internet troll piece

lol


Ayers is a better bigger Malik Rose. Been saying this for a while. Really really excited about this kid. When Diaw goes back to soft offensively, I'd play him down the stretch in smaller situations. Great rebounder.

[Malik Hairston]

^^:lol my nigga, put a condom on, tbh..

[DMC]

When the machine is running properly, Marco will spread the floor and he can run the break. He came in and fit in rather well right away, despite his obvious defensive shortcomings. Matt Bonner is not going to be around, and getting the paint open is going to be hard. Tony is our weapon in the paint, but we have to get guys out of there to open it up. Marco and Danny can do that, but we have to have all our guys to make it work. Spurs don't do anything with half a squad, maybe just put up a decent effort. The Finals last year should have shown everyone how valuable the team is as a team, not as a big 3 or anything of the sort. Danny Green was big, Patty was big, Manu was big (in some games), and there were guys who contributed that most teams wouldn't even have in the rotation during that time of the season.

[SanDiegoSpursFan]

Belli is just playing above his role right now. Once he's back in a stricter off-the-bench shooter role who can make some dribble pull-ups on run-outs, and he's guarding bench players, he won't look as bad.

[exstatic]

I think peeps need to be prepared for the probability of his re-signing, especially if Manu rolls off this year.

[Old School 44]

Bonner, Belinelli...they are regular season minutes eaters and three point specialist with league reputations for the latter. Both are getting more time with all the injuries. Belinelli seems to be suffering from Championship Hangover more than any other Spur. I'm not too worried about either of them. They will be racking up "DNP CD" or spot minutes come playoff time. To have guys like that at the middle/end of your bench is a good thing. Offensively, if they are in the game, the opposing team has to account for them.

[vander]

:lmao So just to be clear, Beli, who was on the court for a total of 6 minutes in Game 3, was responsible for the erosion of a 25 point lead from the midpoint of the 2nd quarter to the end of the 3rd quarter? Where he also hit a 3 point shot in that span?

K.

when Marco came in the game, Miami went on a 8-0 run, then he hit his "heroic" 3

[Mr Bones]

I love how people here say things like "the FO should have signed an athletic SF in the off season," as if they didn't recognize that. Do you honestly think they didn't try? There's no way Belinelli was their first choice-- he was what was available. Anyone on the internet can point to a free agent and say "that's the guy we should sign." It's a bit different in the real world. Guys want to play in certain cities, guys have wives who want/don't want to be in certain places, guys want to be guaranteed minutes, want bigger contracts, etc., etc. Jason Kidd turned down a max contract from the Spurs in his prime reportedly because his wife wanted to stay in the New York area to work on her career. Anyone who knows basketball could see that going to San Antonio would have been the best decision for Kidd, but it didn't happen. And, not surprisingly, he and his wife are now divorced. But you can't say the FO was stupid because they didn't sign Jason Kidd. That's on him. And it's the same with Kyle Korver, Josh McRoberts, etc., etc.

[DMC]

I love how people here say things like "the FO should have signed an athletic SF in the off season," as if they didn't recognize that. Do you honestly think they didn't try? There's no way Belinelli was their first choice-- he was what was available. Anyone on the internet can point to a free agent and say "that's the guy we should sign." It's a bit different in the real world. Guys want to play in certain cities, guys have wives who want/don't want to be in certain places, guys want to be guaranteed minutes, want bigger contracts, etc., etc. Jason Kidd turned down a max contract from the Spurs in his prime reportedly because his wife wanted to stay in the New York area to work on her career. Anyone who knows basketball could see that going to San Antonio would have been the best decision for Kidd, but it didn't happen. And, not surprisingly, he and his wife are now divorced. But you can't say the FO was stupid because they didn't sign Jason Kidd. That's on him. And it's the same with Kyle Korver, Josh McRoberts, etc., etc.

This is what a lot of fans seem to discount when comparing team successes. Not all teams have the pick of the litter during signings. Big name free agents transform teams every year, except in smaller markets like San Antonio where big names almost never sign. In these cities, success has to be grown. These teams must have a system in place to not only find raw talent, but to develop and retain it. There's only one small market team that's been able to do that with any regularity. So when fans of teams like the Lakers and such try to compare results, they need to consider that available talent isn't always in the draft. As far as I recall, the last big name free agent in SA was Terry Cummings and he wasn't that big.

[kaji157]

I don´t like the guy, yet i´ll tell you why.
Tim Duncan, Boris Diaw, Manu Ginobili, Marco Belinelli those are the only players in our team that can either create their shot or an assist that is not really there.
All other need either to be set up to score or have a scheme ran for them to get the assist.
Still don´t like the guy because is the worst defender the Spurs have, and virtually any player does to him what he does for us.

[BillMc]

He was nowhere near this bad last year. WTF happened.

You're right, the first half of last year especially he was scorching, shooting 50% from 3 and people were rambling on about him being the heir to Manu. He didn't perform as well in the second half of the year, and (with a few exceptions) disappeared in the playoffs. But he ate up a lot minutes in the regular season, which I'm fine with. That's his job.

[BillMc]

Bonner, Belinelli...they are regular season minutes eaters and three point specialist with league reputations for the latter. Both are getting more time with all the injuries. Belinelli seems to be suffering from Championship Hangover more than any other Spur. I'm not too worried about either of them. They will be racking up "DNP CD" or spot minutes come playoff time. To have guys like that at the middle/end of your bench is a good thing. Offensively, if they are in the game, the opposing team has to account for them.

Agree with this, though Boris is in the running with Marco for "Biggest Championship Hangover" :bobo. Boris is not play nearly as well as last year, which is disturbing because he's a lot more important than Marco.

[Yuixafun]

When the machine is running properly, Marco will spread the floor and he can run the break. He came in and fit in rather well right away, despite his obvious defensive shortcomings. Matt Bonner is not going to be around, and getting the paint open is going to be hard. Tony is our weapon in the paint, but we have to get guys out of there to open it up. Marco and Danny can do that, but we have to have all our guys to make it work. Spurs don't do anything with half a squad, maybe just put up a decent effort. The Finals last year should have shown everyone how valuable the team is as a team, not as a big 3 or anything of the sort. Danny Green was big, Patty was big, Manu was big (in some games), and there were guys who contributed that most teams wouldn't even have in the rotation during that time of the season.

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts - Aristotle

Completely agree man, these guys enhance the strengths of each other and cover weaknesses, each person is important for a role in the grand design

[EVAY]

When the machine is running properly, Marco will spread the floor and he can run the break. He came in and fit in rather well right away, despite his obvious defensive shortcomings. Matt Bonner is not going to be around, and getting the paint open is going to be hard. Tony is our weapon in the paint, but we have to get guys out of there to open it up. Marco and Danny can do that, but we have to have all our guys to make it work. Spurs don't do anything with half a squad, maybe just put up a decent effort. The Finals last year should have shown everyone how valuable the team is as a team, not as a big 3 or anything of the sort. Danny Green was big, Patty was big, Manu was big (in some games), and there were guys who contributed that most teams wouldn't even have in the rotation during that time of the season.

Well said, and as someone else pointed out, he is being asked to do more than he is capable of producing while Kawhi and Tony are out. It makes him look pretty bad. He can and will contribute again, I hope.

[Cry Havoc]

when Marco came in the game, Miami went on a 8-0 run, then he hit his "heroic" 3

That's cool. So you're blaming Marco exclusively for the evaporation of a 25 point lead to 7 even though you admit the total difference of his play was -5. I guess those other 13 points just fell out of the sky.

[Harry Callahan]

As far as I recall, the last big name free agent in SA was Terry Cummings and he wasn't that big.

Terry Cummings was acquired by trade, for an all star caliber player (Alvin Robertson and other pieces). That was a very big deal at the time. The Spurs put Terry Cummings in with DRob, Sean E, Willie Anderson, etc. A very salty Spurs squad in 1989. Terry Cummings was a big time player for SA prior to his major knee injury.

[Old School 44]

Agree with this, though Boris is in the running with Marco for "Biggest Championship Hangover" :bobo. Boris is not play nearly as well as last year, which is disturbing because he's a lot more important than Marco.

Yes...agree about Boris, but he has had flashes. His recent game against the Clips was pretty impressive. He was super agressive. I'm confident that Boris will be here come playoff time.
:bobo

[vander]

That's cool. So you're blaming Marco exclusively for the evaporation of a 25 point lead to 7 even though you admit the total difference of his play was -5. I guess those other 13 points just fell out of the sky.

yes I was blaming him EXCLUSIVELY for the ENTIRE Miami comeback.

obviously when the lead reached its highest point, Pop said that he would probably be able to play Beli in the 3rd quarter. this caused the Spurs to get depressed and play with less energy, and when Miami somehow heard about it they were encouraged and played with new hope and purpose...

primary = exclusive?
"drop to 8" = 18 point drop?

[EVAY]

I don't have a reaction to Bellinelli much one way or another. Don't want to defend him or attack him. I'm glad when he does well and wish he had done better when he doesn't.

What I noticed in looking at the stats, though, over at Ptr, was that the defensive rating numbers for Bellinelli last night were actually better than the defensive rating for Baynes, Diaw, Ginobili, or Cory Joseph.

Believe me I am not trying to argue that Belli is great or even good.

I'm kind of more interested in the stats. Lots of times folks focus on one or another stat as proving something that we all know is not a reflection of reality ( see Bonner, Matt and +/- stats). Thing is, we all know the stat is an inaccurate indicator regarding Bonner, but it is used for other people as though it was a gospel reading. Same thing, I wonder, with most of the stats. Let's look at Mills' impact last night. His shooting was less than stellar, (I don't remember what any of his stats were) but we all know that his impact on the game was absolutely spectacular.

I guess my only point here is the arguments using these stats as definitive proof of much of anything are less than compelling.

It is not that I distrust stats. I used to teach parametric and non-parametric statistics at the college level.

It is just that they are limited themselves.

[DMC]

Terry Cummings was acquired by trade, for an all star caliber player (Alvin Robertson and other pieces). That was a very big deal at the time. The Spurs put Terry Cummings in with DRob, Sean E, Willie Anderson, etc. A very salty Spurs squad in 1989. Terry Cummings was a big time player for SA prior to his major knee injury.
See how bad my memory is? I met TC in a mall in SA. He was ok, had a posse that followed him everywhere, like Tony does. Minus him (and now not even that), there's never been a "big" free agent signing in SA since I can recall, I don't go back to the ABA days.

[Cry Havoc]

yes I was blaming him EXCLUSIVELY for the ENTIRE Miami comeback.

obviously when the lead reached its highest point, Pop said that he would probably be able to play Beli in the 3rd quarter. this caused the Spurs to get depressed and play with less energy, and when Miami somehow heard about it they were encouraged and played with new hope and purpose...

primary = exclusive?
"drop to 8" = 18 point drop?

So your claim, to be clear, is to hold Marco responsible as the primary reason the lead went from 25 to 7, even though he was only on the court from the time the lead went from 15-7, after which he hit a 3, effectively making him responsible for a total of 5 points. Out of an 18 point swing. Okay. Glad you cleared that up.

[DMC]

I don't have a reaction to Bellinelli much one way or another. Don't want to defend him or attack him. I'm glad when he does well and wish he had done better when he doesn't.

What I noticed in looking at the stats, though, over at Ptr, was that the defensive rating numbers for Bellinelli last night were actually better than the defensive rating for Baynes, Diaw, Ginobili, or Cory Joseph.

Believe me I am not trying to argue that Belli is great or even good.

I'm kind of more interested in the stats. Lots of times folks focus on one or another stat as proving something that we all know is not a reflection of reality ( see Bonner, Matt and +/- stats). Thing is, we all know the stat is an inaccurate indicator regarding Bonner, but it is used for other people as though it was a gospel reading. Same thing, I wonder, with most of the stats. Let's look at Mills' impact last night. His shooting was less than stellar, (I don't remember what any of his stats were) but we all know that his impact on the game was absolutely spectacular.

I guess my only point here is the arguments using these stats as definitive proof of much of anything are less than compelling.

It is not that I distrust stats. I used to teach parametric and non-parametric statistics at the college level.

It is just that they are limited themselves.
I feel the same, except I also allow that maybe the eyeball test is more misleading than the stats. You'd think that a guy who plays shitty defense will be exposed in advanced metrics, but maybe not if the coach hides him.

[hater]

So your claim, to be clear, is to hold Marco responsible as the primary reason the lead went from 25 to 7, even though he was only on the court from the time the lead went from 15-7, after which he hit a 3, effectively making him responsible for a total of 5 points. Out of an 18 point swing. Okay. Glad you cleared that up.

:lmao

[DMC]

So your claim, to be clear, is to hold Marco responsible as the primary reason the lead went from 25 to 7, even though he was only on the court from the time the lead went from 15-7, after which he hit a 3, effectively making him responsible for a total of 5 points. Out of an 18 point swing. Okay. Glad you cleared that up.

To be fair, even when a guy checks out, if his play swung momentum one way or another, the effects of it can linger after he's benched. It cannot begin before he enters the game though.

[EVAY]

I feel the same, except I also allow that maybe the eyeball test is more misleading than the stats. You'd think that a guy who plays shitty defense will be exposed in advanced metrics, but maybe not if the coach hides him.

Couldn't agree more. I think that is why the stats are used so frequently. We all want to believe that 'objective numbers' are far more accurate than subjective eye witness testimony. I know I want to believe that. It is just interesting to me.

Maybe you are right about the coach's influence. SOMETHING has to explain it.

(This is about the time my son would be telling me just how big a nerd I really am. LOL)

[EVAY]

To be fair, even when a guy checks out, if his play swung momentum one way or another, the effects of it can linger after he's benched. It cannot begin before he enters the game though.

absolutely true. One of the things that used to make me nuts with Pop was when he would wait sooooo long before he would change out a line-up even when it wasn't working, or would wait too long to re-instate the starters when the other team was making a run (remember those days when we used to have the luxury of a healthy team with multiple substitution options? HAH)...and it would take at least 4 or 5 minutes for the first team to be able to stop the run. Sometimes we didn't have that long to wait.

[vander]

So your claim, to be clear, is to hold Marco responsible as the primary reason the lead went from 25 to 7, even though he was only on the court from the time the lead went from 15-7, after which he hit a 3, effectively making him responsible for a total of 5 points. Out of an 18 point swing. Okay. Glad you cleared that up.

oh come off it already, your crusade against player criticism is as stale and boring as apasiloc's love for Kawhi. you're not an idiot, you know my point was simply that Beli was no hero for that 3, and I hope you can quickly figure out how "dropping to 8" does not mean "dropping to 8 from 25" or 30, or whatever the lead was...

[Cry Havoc]

To be fair, even when a guy checks out, if his play swung momentum one way or another, the effects of it can linger after he's benched. It cannot begin before he enters the game though.

I agree to a point, but I'm not sure that championship squads have an excuse. You're on the court and if the other team is confident, it's your job to get in their face and ruin that confidence. You think Duncan or Bowen ever worried about what their guy was doing before they checked into the game?

This isn't to remove responsibility from Beli, but I think it's clear he'll never be anything resembling a good defender and he's asked to play a lot of minutes right now. He makes an effort and that's what I like to see from our players.

[Raven]

I agree to a point, but I'm not sure that championship squads have an excuse. You're on the court and if the other team is confident, it's your job to get in their face and ruin that confidence. You think Duncan or Bowen ever worried about what their guy was doing before they checked into the game?

This isn't to remove responsibility from Beli, but I think it's clear he'll never be anything resembling a good defender and he's asked to play a lot of minutes right now. He makes an effort and that's what I like to see from our players.

exactly what makes you say he makes an effort? can you give an example or something, because when i see him defend, effort and energy are the last words i would say.

[Cry Havoc]

oh come off it already, your crusade against player criticism is as stale and boring as apasiloc's love for Kawhi.

As opposed to the "I hate our own players" rants, which are so new and edgy. You're just so edgy, bro. I can't even keep up with you.



you're not an idiot, you know my point was simply that Beli was no hero for that 3, and I hope you can quickly figure out how "dropping to 8" does not mean "dropping to 8 from 25" or 30, or whatever the lead was...

http://i.imgur.com/6vApA.gif

You went from saying he's primarily responsible for a 25 point lead evaporating to this. :lol

And I never said he was a hero for that 3, but it was a big shot and took some of the wind out of Miami's sails.

[Cry Havoc]

exactly what makes you say he makes an effort? can you give an example or something, because when i see him defend, effort and energy are the last words i would say.

He hustles, tries to stay in front of his man, and doesn't take plays off.

I'm sure you know better than Pop though, right?

[Raven]

He hustles, tries to stay in front of his man, and doesn't take plays off.

I'm sure you know better than Pop though, right?

see that's just it, i've never seen him actually hustle.. sure he like to pretend, flop and make easy things look complicated, but have you ever seen him having actual contact with the floor or with someone's elbows? Clearly he doesn't even try to stay in fron of his man, that's just ridicolous to say. Taking plays off is pretty much all he alway does, you can actually see him only when he does something dumb or shoots.

[ohmwrecker]

Beli sucks.

[hater]

Benchinelli hustles, but he is italian after all. Nigga gotta look good first and foremost. He is just having a ROUGH year

[Arcadian]

So, what exactly was the question? If you're asking why Marco is playing more minutes now, it's probably because Green had to slide over to SF in Leonard's absence, and Manu remained on the bench for strategic reasons, leaving Marco as the starting SG.

If you really believe Pop loves Marco, remember that he was basically removed from the rotation in the Finals. He must not love him that much.

[DMC]

Marco climbing out of the swamp, putting up numbers, bringing home the bacon.. waived? I don't think so... momma, there goes that wop.