Kawhi. What's the story? How long is he out for? How bad is the injury? Any progress? [Archive]

Ice009

12-31-2014, 01:31 AM

I want to know what is going on with Kawhi. Not getting any info out of the Spurs about it is getting ridiculous.

Why isn't the San Antonio media all over the Spurs asking about his injury and what is going on with it? Is he progressing? Is he healing? Isn't this their job to get this kind of information?

I understand the Spurs being secretive, but is the SA media that gutless that they won't get on the Spurs about it and ask for details?

Is any other team in the NBA this secretive about injuries during the regular season where they won't give any info to the media at all about their star player/s.

First it was said to be a bruised hand, then the commentators briefly mentioned during a game that it was a torn ligament and now he was listed again tonight as "out with a bruised hand".

What injury is it, how bad is it, is he progressing at all. How about getting some info. SA media is complete fucking fail. I don't see what the Spurs are getting out of this by being so secretive during the regular season.

Sean Cagney

12-31-2014, 01:35 AM

Cklbmk

12-31-2014, 01:41 AM

Career ending sadly :( Good thing we didn't max him out this summer

Nathan89

12-31-2014, 01:44 AM

Out for the season imho. Gotta keep quite until we can make a trade to maintain some leverage. Also keep fans from throwing in the towel and stop attending.

ElNono

12-31-2014, 01:47 AM

I'm not supposed to say this, but T Park sources have told me he'll be back within the next two weeks...

Ice009

12-31-2014, 01:50 AM

Even if it's bad, what's the point of keeping it a secret. I doubt it's that bad otherwise the Spurs players body language out on the court would probably be bad.

If Kobe were on the Spurs a year and a half ago when he had that injury they probably wouldn't tell anyone for weeks, yet in LA you get that info in a day or so. The Spurs would have probably said something like - oh, we weren't sure what the injury was, we got this doctor and he hasn't seen that type of injury in 50 years.

What kind of freaking doctors do the Spurs have over there? They did a similar thing with Splitter. They got guys that haven't seen the injury and don't know what is wrong with their own players.

DMC

12-31-2014, 01:56 AM

spurs10

12-31-2014, 03:10 AM

If you are with the Spurs organization you are saying "bruised hand." They have to go with that if they work for the Spurs. The press have speculated on a more severe injury, but they don't know for sure. Pop is supposed to have said he might require surgery in the off season, but I didn't hear that interview.

BillMc

12-31-2014, 03:57 AM

It kind of reminds me of Tiago's calf injury to begin the season. Same lack of information.

-21-

12-31-2014, 06:25 AM

Sadly Ice I don't think anyone knows at this point. Someone higher up might now but they are keeping it on the hush with this injury. I feel it is really bad and they are not disclosing how bad but can hope it's just CIA pop and overcautious on this one but I doubt it. The fact it is such a secret makes me think it is worse than it appears.

Career ending sadly :( Good thing we didn't max him out this summer

Out for the season imho. Gotta keep quite until we can make a trade to maintain some leverage. Also keep fans from throwing in the towel and stop attending.

This is making me nervous...

james evans

12-31-2014, 09:26 AM

either kawai's hand is seriously fuked up or popovich is sidelining him so other teams will show no interest in signing him. It's one of the 2. I'm thinking it's mind game shit

DesignatedT

12-31-2014, 09:36 AM

either kawai's hand is seriously fuked up or popovich is sidelining him so other teams will show no interest in signing him. It's one of the 2. I'm thinking it's mind game shit

Lol so stupid. His hand is pretty fucked up if he couldn't even palm a ball a week ago. If they haven't opted for surgery it must be showing some progress though.

monkeypunk

12-31-2014, 01:41 PM

If I recall correctly on his second hand injury, he went up and landed on his own hand with all of his weight. Gonna take a while for that to heal. Just be patient...

No excuse for the rest of the team to play like shit though, that's on them and the coaching staff. Pop and his bullshit doghouse should have let KA play more over the last few games. We need that spark off the bench since Manu has been scouted to hell and back and Boris is playing soft for whatever reason.

Free KA!

daslicer

12-31-2014, 02:06 PM

EVAY

12-31-2014, 02:12 PM

The way they have handled Kawhi's injury reminds me a lot like '00 when Duncan got injured. In '00 they were very secretive about the injury and calling it knee inflammation and it wasn't until playoff tickets were bought that they announced Duncan was out with a meniscus tear.

Well, you know, from what Pop has already said it seems super serious to me. When he (Pop) said there was stuff "floating around in there", that cannot be good.

For a while Pop was kind of saying that it was a matter of pain tolerance - but if you have stuff "floating around in there", isn't it going to be a matter of more pain every time it gets hit during a game?

Kawhi's hand is still swollen and Tony's leg is still swollen, and I don't see either one of them improving. TP has gone to see a specialist, and Kawhi went to a specialist who said he hadn't seen anything like it in his entire career.

I do't think it sounds at all good.

And it could not be clearer that we need BOTH of those guys to beat the best in the West.

FkLA

12-31-2014, 04:16 PM

Kawhi's hand is still swollen and Tony's leg is still swollen, and I don't see either one of them improving. TP has gone to see a specialist, and Kawhi went to a specialist who said he hadn't seen anything like it in his entire career.

I do't think it sounds at all good.

And it could not be clearer that we need BOTH of those guys to beat the best in the West.

:lmao

You realize the link Nono posted was a joke, right? There are no 'specialists' for mild strains. They're minor, day-to-day injuries. I know it's hard for you to wrap your mind around it but it truly is an insignificant minor injury. Enrique is just a pussy that can't play through the slightest of pain.

EVAY

12-31-2014, 04:41 PM

:lmao

You realize the link Nono posted was a joke, right? There are no 'specialists' for mild strains. They're minor, day-to-day injuries. I know it's hard for you to wrap your mind around it but it truly is an insignificant minor injury. Enrique is just a pussy that can't play through the slightest of pain.

Yeah I know E-N's site reference was a joke, but TP DID see a specialist, Tiago DID see a specialist, and Kawhi DID see a specialist. When seemingly minor things are not healing, people go to find out why.

Pop is the one who said that Tony's leg was still swollen. That was about 5 days ago, think

You know, actually, I think I have picked up somewhere around that you might question TP's toughness. Can't remember exactly why I got that impression about what you think, but I somehow tumbled to it.

FkLA

12-31-2014, 04:54 PM

Yeah I know E-N's site reference was a joke, but TP DID see a specialist, Tiago DID see a specialist, and Kawhi DID see a specialist. When seemingly minor things are not healing, people go to find out why.

Pop is the one who said that Tony's leg was still swollen. That was about 5 days ago, think

You know, actually, I think I have picked up somewhere around that you might question TP's toughness. Can't remember exactly why I got that impression about what you think, but I somehow tumbled to it.

Its a pain tolerance issue not an injury. Anyways where did you hear that Enrique saw a specialist? I heard as much about Kawhi and Tiago bc they had actual injuries but nothing regarding Enrique. Pretty hilarious if he did though since Derrick Rose missed 1 game with the same exact injury. :lol

loveforthegame

12-31-2014, 05:38 PM

Mike Monroe tweeted this 15 minutes ago.

Popovich on Kawhi Leonard's potential return: 'Later, rather than sooner.'

Robz4000

12-31-2014, 05:42 PM

If he's out for the damn year, then say so. Enough with this CIA bullshit.

Spurs 4 The Win

12-31-2014, 05:46 PM

MVPLeonard will be back after all star break, book it

look_at_g_shred

12-31-2014, 06:03 PM

Hell be back against the wiz
thats a sarcastic later tbh..

daslicer

12-31-2014, 06:11 PM

If he's out for the damn year, then say so. Enough with this CIA bullshit.

Yup that pisses me off wish they would be up front about the injury. If he is truly out for the year and they never announce it until the season is over its going to be like a Derrick Rose type of Saga.

DieHardSpursFan1537

12-31-2014, 06:12 PM

At this point, its just a mystery. We'll just have to wait and wait

DieHardSpursFan1537

12-31-2014, 06:14 PM

At least Patty's back sooner than expected. I thought he was out til after the All-Star break.

Ice009

12-31-2014, 11:21 PM

Well, you know, from what Pop has already said it seems super serious to me. When he (Pop) said there was stuff "floating around in there", that cannot be good.

For a while Pop was kind of saying that it was a matter of pain tolerance - but if you have stuff "floating around in there", isn't it going to be a matter of more pain every time it gets hit during a game?

Kawhi's hand is still swollen and Tony's leg is still swollen, and I don't see either one of them improving. TP has gone to see a specialist, and Kawhi went to a specialist who said he hadn't seen anything like it in his entire career.

I do't think it sounds at all good.

And it could not be clearer that we need BOTH of those guys to beat the best in the West.

Where did you hear Kawhi has stuff "floating around in there"? When did Pop say that?

Calispursfan11

01-01-2015, 01:16 AM

Ice009

01-01-2015, 01:19 AM

Kawhi felt he could return a couple of games ago, tbh. This is just cautious POP - not giving a shit about standings as long as we're still in the playoffs and making sure the guy doesn't re-injure himself. He knows if we get KL back this year and Enrique full strength, we're still the best so as long as we make the playoffs there is NO FEAR whatsoever. NO FEAR. book it.

Where did you hear that? Why did the commentators say today that he could still be out for a while?

This misinformation is getting really ridiculous from the Spurs.

Calispursfan11

01-01-2015, 01:21 AM

It's my recollection Kawhi tweeted that he would be good a couple games ago, tbh. That's straight from the injured dude. If he feels good, that means he can grip a ball and play. All the rest is just precaution.

Sean Cagney

01-01-2015, 01:21 AM

If he's out for the damn year, then say so. Enough with this CIA bullshit.
Your damn right, and it sounds like he could be out alot longer. Get the damn surgery if he is out extended time and just get it over with and stop beating around the bush. If it were that serious then they would tell him to get surgery already correct? That instead of just messing around and saying sooner or later b.s. crap. I am sick of it as you are.

Calispursfan11

01-01-2015, 01:24 AM

If Kawhi thinks he can play and be effective now, the only thing holding him back is the chance he might worsen the injury and the Spurs being conservative in that respect. A player says he can play, he can play. I haven't heard anything new from Kawhi saying he's not ready. Last thing was, he's ready to go but Pop is blocking that shit for the time being...

loveforthegame

01-01-2015, 02:43 AM

He was clapping on the bench tonight. He can't dribble, catch, or shoot but thank goodness he can still clap.

look_at_g_shred

01-01-2015, 02:48 AM

littlecoyotecoin

01-01-2015, 02:55 AM

He was clapping on the bench tonight. He can't dribble, catch, or shoot but thank goodness he can still clap.

He always keeps an extra reservoir of clap, just in case the team needs it.

mkurts

01-01-2015, 03:07 AM

Broken hand and Detached retina ?

Sean Cagney

01-01-2015, 03:32 AM

Broken hand and Detached retina ?

If it is a detached Retina it needs surgery to fix right away, doubt he had that and still has it that long or else he would not be seeing right now out of that eye. Broken hand no clue, if it's not broken something bad is wrong with it to keep him out this long and the distant future. I am worried as you all are, just wish there would be some good news soon but not expecting it to be honest.

spurs10

01-01-2015, 03:50 AM

Pop was quoted as saying it will be 'later rather than sooner' at Pounding The Rock. He also said he was expecting TP back before Kawhi. So one step forward and two steps back.

313

01-01-2015, 04:47 AM

I'm with pop on this. I'd rather be very cautious in letting him come back than bring him back and he reinforces himself. Tony and Kawhi both said they could play last time they came back and both of them re-aggravated their injuries

TheChillFactor

01-01-2015, 07:18 AM

This is ridiculous. If you people dont trust Pop after last year you are dumber than i thought you were. You sit here and scour every shitty website for an answer when we all know Pop will bring him back when its time and he wont tell anyone shit. Jesus fucking christ go rub one out or something.

le13

01-01-2015, 08:04 AM

Do not worry about Kwany, he will be fine soon. We need him as we need Tony as well.. This is just the regular season so they must take all their time to recover

EVAY

01-01-2015, 10:25 AM

Where did you hear Kawhi has stuff "floating around in there"? When did Pop say that?

Sometime in the last couple of weeks. It was quoted in the local newspaper. Pop referred to it as 'divots or something' - saying he didn't know. I also saw the tape from the interview on the local TV sports coverage. NBC station. It was one of those "before or after" game pressers. Don't remember exactly when. But I remember it distinctly, and I remember thinking at the time "How does he get over something like that and won't it get hurt every time he gets hit in the regular season and swell up afterwards.

SnakeBoy

01-01-2015, 01:21 PM

Hand:
The small joints of the fingers (PIP and DIP joints) are naturally very stable and rarely need surgery unless there is also a fracture (see bone injuries). If very sore or unstable immobilisation in a splint or plaster initially full time for up to 2 weeks and then on and off for about 4 weeks is usually enough.

The larger finger joints (MP joints - at the junction of the fingers and palm) are naturally less stable so more dependent upon their ligament supports. There is controversy over their treatment but research we have undertaken has shown that most of these injuries do very well with strapping to the neighbouring finger for 3-6 weeks and free movement from there.
The end joint of the thumb (IP joint) is like the small joints of the fingers and can be treated the same way with initial full-time support and then part-time support up to about 4 weeks from injury.

The middle joint of the thumb (MP joint - at the junction of the thumb and palm) has important ligaments on both sides (the radial – outer side, and the ulnar – inner side). Because of local differences in the alignment of the soft tissues the radial (outer) ligament tears are treated differently to those on the inner side:

The outer ligament tears almost all heal well with 4 weeks of full time protection, typically in a lightweight cast. The inner ligaments often do not heal well without surgery unless there is a small local fracture of the bone where the ligament had attached. The injuries with fractures can usually be treated with 4 weeks of full time immobilisation in a lightweight cast. The injuries with no fracture usually need open surgery to confirm the diagnosis and perform a repair. This is usually supported in a plaster or splint for about 4 weeks.

The inner ligament tears would also heal as well but the tendon of another muscle can often get in the way of the ends of the healing ligament joining together. This leads to considerable weakness in the thumb. Because of this open (surgical) assessment of the ligament is recommended, usually with repair of the tear. The tear may be repaired in a variety of ways including stitching to the local soft tissues or bone (thumb proximal phalanx) or fixing it with stitches connected to anchors in the bone. Depending upon the severity of the repair the MP joint will be supported. This is almost always with a a lightweight cast or splint for 4 weeks and sometimes with a wire placed across the joint at the time of surgery. The wire is removed in the outpatient’s clinic after 4 weeks or so.

The ligaments holding bottom (near) joint of the thumb (CMC joint) are very important in stabilising the joint to ensure normal function and prevent risks of long-term arthritis. Injuries at this joint are usually associated with small fracture of the base of the thumb metacarpal bone known as a Bennett’s fracture (see fracture handbook). Rarely there is a true ligament injury with no bone injury. The treatment of both injuries is the same. The joint needs to be held reduced for 5-6 weeks. This cannot be done successfully in plaster. Formal surgical reduction and stabilisation with a wire under a local (sometimes general) anaesthetic is needed. The one or two wires are supported in a lightweight cast for 5-6 weeks when the wire(s) are removed in the outpatient’s clinic.

Given the things we've heard like the doctor hasn't seen Kawhi's type of injury before, Kawhi cannot palm the ball, and Kawhi is not wearing a splint/cast, I'm guessing the bolded part is the type of injury Kawhi has. They are probably just giving it time and hoping surgery won't be needed. Not good :depressed

SnakeBoy

01-01-2015, 01:23 PM

As far as Kawhi thinking he'll be ready soon...

Ligament injuries are often obvious because of local pain and swelling. The severity can easily be overlooked. We see many patients who come several weeks or months down the line from injury who had not appreciated the severity of the problem. At the later stages there is often less pain but instability i.e. excess/abnormal movement in the local joint.

SnakeBoy

01-01-2015, 01:29 PM

If the muscle/tendon injuries are partial (incomplete) then rest and supervised movement are often sufficient for a very good recovery. The muscle/tendon needs to be protected for at least 6 weeks and as much as 12 weeks for heavy activities. If the tear or cut is complete than in most cases surgery would be recommended otherwise there will be significant weakness and possibly disability.
Surgery is performed under anaesthetic in an operating theatre. For injuries in the hand and fingers surgery can often be performed under local anaesthetic. Injuries further up the arm and in children typically require a general anaesthetic as do extensive i.e. multiple tendon injuries. Muscle repair is difficult as the tissues do not hold stitches (sutures) well. The repairs are therefore not very robust and need protection typically for 4-6 weeks initially and for 12 weeks for heavy activities. Tendon repairs are usually more robust but tendons heal more slowly and so again need protection. However, they also tend to stick down to local tissues, so they need to be moved early, starting within days of the repair. This movement needs to be carefully controlled and protected. This is performed protected by a splint and carefully supervised by the treating team, especially the Hand therapists.
Injuries to the bending tendons of the fingers are particularly prone to failure or to sticking down because the track in which they run is so narrow. The period of post-operative therapy requires particularly close supervision for the first 5 weeks and care for up to 12 weeks.

Since he is not wearing a splint/cast it is also possible that Kawhi has a tendon injury which is not good news either (12 weeks rest ouch). However this is not my diagnosis as a professional online speculator.

SnakeBoy

01-01-2015, 01:44 PM

Yep, the rare Bennet's fracture without bone injury, only ligament damage.

Symptoms
How is a Bennett’s fracture diagnosed in athletes? The typical presentation is seen in an athlete with a recent history of an axial load to a flexed thumb such as a fall onto an outstretched hand. Athletes will have pain and swelling noted at the base of the thumb. Active motion is limited because of pain. Once appropriate suspicion for a fracture is present, standard posteroanterior, lateral, and oblique radiographs (x-rays) should be obtained. Additionally, a “prayer” view may provide a more focused view of the thumb metacarpal joint as well. If plain films still do not provide adequate evaluation of the fracture, CT scans can be obtained of the affected area. Your treating physician will not only take careful note of the size and displacement of the fracture fragment, but also will evaluate for the presence of cartilage injury (the smooth tissue that lines the joint surfaces) on both the metacarpal and trapezium. - See more at: http://www.sportsmd.com/Articles/id/17.aspx#sthash.jqydVp8z.dpuf

Season ending tbh

exstatic

01-01-2015, 01:58 PM

FuzzyLumpkins

01-01-2015, 03:06 PM

I'm not supposed to say this, but T Park sources have told me he'll be back within the next two weeks...

I don't care if it's all you can eat, that Luby's is nasty. You really shouldn't go there.

ElNono

01-01-2015, 04:00 PM

I don't care if it's all you can eat, that Luby's is nasty. You really shouldn't go there.

Never been, tbh... Golden Corral already grosses me out..

Southwest Texas Fan

01-01-2015, 05:12 PM

Given the things we've heard like the doctor hasn't seen Kawhi's type of injury before, Kawhi cannot palm the ball, and Kawhi is not wearing a splint/cast, I'm guessing the bolded part is the type of injury Kawhi has. They are probably just giving it time and hoping surgery won't be needed. Not good :depressed

That's my concern as well. They're holding out to see if it heals without needing immediate surgery in hopes of bringing him back within a few weeks.

Ditty

01-01-2015, 05:46 PM

Ice009

01-01-2015, 06:14 PM

Didn't he have an option for surgery, and that the recovery time would of been only two months or so, but he was going to wait until the offseason to have surgery? If so he should of done it, and would of been back in early-late March.

I never read/heard about them contemplating the surgery option during the season. I recall only reading it being mentioned for after the season.

If the recovery time is short, and he can get back during the regular season, they should consider doing it now. If it's a long recovery time (months), then it won't make any difference if they do it now or later, will it?

Did the ligament tear happen in that fall late in the Portland game? If so, Pop resting playing may have really cost us a lot on that. It's likely he wouldn't have been handling the ball in that situation if Pop didn't rest everyone.

DMX7

01-01-2015, 06:49 PM

Kawhi being out isn't the issue. The team is playing poorly on both ends. You go that far in the playoffs three consecutive years and it's going to weigh on everyone from the ownership down to the bench.

It's not the ONLY issue, but it is a huge issue. You think the Finals MVP being out is immaterial? Give me a fucking break.

Tycriss

01-01-2015, 07:03 PM

Last 190 games with Kawhi Leonard : 144W-46L 75.8% :toast
Last 50 games without Kawhi Leonard : 25W-25L 50% :lmao

apalisoc_9

01-01-2015, 07:14 PM

Last 190 games with Kawhi Leonard : 144W-46L 75.8% :toast
Last 50 games without Kawhi Leonard : 25W-25L 50% :lmao

:lol

Johnny RIngo

01-01-2015, 07:18 PM

Last 190 games with Kawhi Leonard : 144W-46L 75.8% :toast
Last 50 games without Kawhi Leonard : 25W-25L 50% :lmao

Not that surprising really. Spurs were first round fodder to the Grizzlies the year before Kawhi was drafted. Ever since, they've made three straight Conference Finals trips, back-to-back Finals, and won a championship. He's the most important player on the team.

apalisoc_9

01-01-2015, 07:30 PM

wildchild

01-01-2015, 07:38 PM

Leonard had the best win% in the NBA for 2014 year (.750)

Ain't going anywhere without Kawhi

DMC

01-01-2015, 08:01 PM

It's not the ONLY issue, but it is a huge issue. You think the Finals MVP being out is immaterial? Give me a fucking break.

Don't overhype Kawhi's role by calling him the FMVP as if he's now the scoring leader for the team on a nightly basis.. he's not. We should be able to have a guy out and still not get bent over by middle of the pack teams. In years past our bench would beat most of these other low rent squads.

wildchild

01-01-2015, 08:03 PM

Not that surprising really. Spurs were first round fodder to the Grizzlies the year before Kawhi was drafted. Ever since, they've made three straight Conference Finals trips, back-to-back Finals, and won a championship. He's the most important player on the team.

Agree. What's the different about the Spurs being eliminated in first round...? Kawhi is the obvious answer with his momentum-changing plays on both ends in crucial games.
On a team where the Big 3 and coach remained static, Leonard was the biggest addition and the reason we have been able to win a title again.

moisaenz

01-01-2015, 08:04 PM

Its just pop wanting to into the playoffs as seed 7.

wildchild

01-01-2015, 08:28 PM

Don't overhype Kawhi's role by calling him the FMVP as if he's now the scoring leader for the team on a nightly basis.. he's not.

His role has increased a lot this season, he was the best defender, the second best scorer before his hand injury, and he was the leader scoring in most of his games in december.
After a hard season start with low % in his first games -0%/25% FG- because of blurry vision, his numbers began to increase in december and he was playing at high level: 17.1 ppg 7.7 reb 3.6 ast 2.1 stl

It's undeniable his importance on both ends to the Spurs but sadly Leonard is seriously underrated here.

apalisoc_9

01-01-2015, 08:36 PM

His role has increased a lot this season, he was the best defender, the second best scorer before his hand injury, and he was the leader scoring in most of his games in december.
After a hard season start with low % in his first games -0%/25% FG- because of blurry vision, his numbers began to increase in december and he was playing at high level: 17.1 ppg 7.7 reb 3.6 ast 2.1 stl

It's undeniable his importance on both ends to the Spurs but sadly Leonard is seriously underrated here.

Stop disrespecting the big 3..

:madrun

BackHome

01-01-2015, 08:57 PM

With all the drama going over in Clipper land I don't think will be interested in joining that circus.

Nathan89

01-01-2015, 09:29 PM

apalisoc_9

01-01-2015, 09:45 PM

Splitter, diaw, green, mills, and Ginobili not being hurt also different. You look like an idiot attributing all of that to kawhi.

Those guys are playing right now...

And they are below .500//

You're the idiot tbh.

itzsoweezee

01-01-2015, 09:49 PM

Only on spurstalk. The guy is clearly the best player on this team after Duncan. No one even comes close to having the impact on both ends of the floor like those two guys.

wildchild

01-01-2015, 09:53 PM

Splitter, diaw, green, mills, and Ginobili not being hurt also different. You look like an idiot attributing all of that to kawhi.

Well, I rather look like and idiot than underrate Leonard's impact on this team.

However, I'm not alone looking like an idiot and thinking Kawhi is the reason the Spurs have been able to win a title again...

"Leonard is the reason the Spurs are chasing championships again. He changed everything for the Spurs.
He gave them size and strength and athleticism to partner with his calculating, cunning basketball mind. Eventually, he gave them a startling offensive game to go with his stifling defense. Against Oklahoma City and Miami, he gave them a defender for Kevin Durant and LeBron James.
Yes, Kawhi Leonard gave the Spurs a chance again"
Woj

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-kawhi-leonard-revived-the-spurs--fading-dynasty-081409439.html

GrandeDavid

01-01-2015, 10:01 PM

I've said it all along, at this point still inclined to believe he's done for the season.

apalisoc_9

01-01-2015, 10:02 PM

GrandeDavid

01-01-2015, 10:07 PM

Nathan89

01-01-2015, 10:18 PM

Those guys are playing right now...

And they are below .500//

You're the idiot tbh.

Tiago and mills just came back from injury. Tony is injured. Boris diaw is having a shitty season.

Schedule had a lot of back2back. Strength of schedule was very difficult. We gave away a couple of games.

apalisoc_9

01-01-2015, 10:22 PM

Tiago and mills just came back from injury. Tony is injured. Boris diaw is having a shitty season.

Schedule had a lot of back2back. Strength of schedule was very difficult. We gave away a couple of games.

:lmao

Nathan89

01-01-2015, 10:24 PM

T Park

01-01-2015, 10:48 PM

Ah more of the Internet tough guys wanting the media to hold the team accountable lmao

wildchild

01-01-2015, 10:56 PM

The fact of the matter is we weren't winning without the guys I mentioned. So it's still idiotic to attribute the spurs championship to the addition of one player.

Basketball is a team sport so we need more than a player to win games but when that player is the biggest addition and has the bigger impact on his team it's not idiotic to think his presence has been/is vital to win a title.

I don't like to talk about stats because they're incomplete performance indicators but some guys only matter about numbers.

-Kawhi had the best NBA wing% in 2014, not other guys on the team. Just Kawhi.

-The team without Kawhi are only 0.1 points per 100 possessions
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B5PJ9BRCYAIch_q.jpg:large

-Maybe Bonner isn't the King of +/-...Leonard is 4th in all NBA

Gagnrath

01-01-2015, 11:05 PM

personally I think a big part of the issue is not having an actual small forward on the on the roster to back up kahwi. Having guys who are naturally 2 guards, that can fill in for a few minutes works sorta when you have someone to guard first team 3s a majority of the game. Not good really to have a game long liability.

DMX7

01-01-2015, 11:08 PM

Don't overhype Kawhi's role by calling him the FMVP as if he's now the scoring leader for the team on a nightly basis.. he's not. We should be able to have a guy out and still not get bent over by middle of the pack teams. In years past our bench would beat most of these other low rent squads.

Good God. You don't know shit about basketball. He does so much more than just score the basketball and he may just be the best perimeter defender in the game.

Nathan89

01-01-2015, 11:24 PM

Basketball is a team sport so we need more than a player to win games but when that player is the biggest addition and has the bigger impact on his team it's not idiotic to think his presence has been/is vital to win a title.

However it is idiotic to say "What's the different about the Spurs being eliminated in first round...?" Then answer with the name of one player. The team has improved significantly at multiple positions and that is why we won the championship.

apalisoc_9

01-01-2015, 11:37 PM

Nathan89

01-01-2015, 11:40 PM

:lmao
:lmao

Ice009

01-01-2015, 11:51 PM

I'd say the Spurs' body language has been on par with about 7 losses in their last 9 games and should've lost to NO las night. The body language is pretty bad.

The body language doesn't look that bad to me. I think you're being very pessimistic. I think the look you are seeing is a combination of them struggling with this many games in the month of December and being tired on top of that. I don't think it's because of them thinking Kawhi is out for the season.

wildchild

01-02-2015, 12:01 AM

However it is idiotic to say "What's the different about the Spurs being eliminated in first round...?" Then answer with the name of one player.

You'll say the same thing over and over again but you won't get closer to the truth...

Nathan89

01-02-2015, 12:21 AM

You'll say the same thing over and over again but you won't get closer to the truth...

I just think the difference between splitter, diaw, green to mcdyess, Blair, hill is significant.

apalisoc_9

01-02-2015, 12:34 AM

:lmao:lmao

Natahn89

:lmao

Southwest Texas Fan

01-02-2015, 12:53 AM

I've said it all along, at this point still inclined to believe he's done for the season.

I sure hope you're wrong. But with how quiet this has been it's starting to get a bit eerie.

SnakeBoy

01-02-2015, 01:48 AM

However it is idiotic to say "What's the different about the Spurs being eliminated in first round...?" Then answer with the name of one player. The team has improved significantly at multiple positions and that is why we won the championship.

Spurs aren't repeating without Kawhi, but carry on with the it takes a village bullshit if it makes you feel better.

apalisoc_9

01-02-2015, 01:54 AM

Spurs aren't repeating without Kawhi, but carry on with the it takes a village bullshit if it makes you feel better.

:lol

scanry

01-02-2015, 02:18 AM

Leonard is much like James Worthy tbh. Worthy also started off slow and the Lakers were unbeatable when he played well, but Kareem & Magic were still the franchise players.

DMC

01-02-2015, 02:37 AM

Well, I rather look like and idiot than underrate Leonard's impact on this team.

However, I'm not alone looking like an idiot and thinking Kawhi is the reason the Spurs have been able to win a title again...

Woj

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-kawhi-leonard-revived-the-spurs--fading-dynasty-081409439.html
There's a distinct bifurcation happening here. It's the false dichotomy that either Kawhi is unimportant or he's the reason the Spurs are in a slump. The truth is not as cut and dry. The Spurs have been playing uninspired ball on both ends. When Leonard was out in the Finals the Spurs still moved the ball. He didn't play 48 minutes a game. Danny Green played defense, Manu didn't turn the ball over 5 times in 20 minutes and go 3-15 or whatever. Danny wasn't shooting 1-6 from 3. Those facts have nothing to do with Kawhi being out. Sure he impacts the team, but he's not the reason they are losing so many games. You said yourself that Leonard is a bigger part of the offense this year, but what changed from last year when he wasn't?

DMC

01-02-2015, 02:41 AM

The body language doesn't look that bad to me. I think you're being very pessimistic. I think the look you are seeing is a combination of them struggling with this many games in the month of December and being tired on top of that. I don't think it's because of them thinking Kawhi is out for the season.
The "tired" thing is overblown. These are professional athletes that play 35 - 45 minutes every other night at most. Being on the floor a few more minutes doesn't make them tired. It increases the chance for injury, but almost every team in the league plays their starters those minutes. The Spurs haven't historically but that doesn't make their player more prone to getting tired.

DMC

01-02-2015, 02:45 AM

Spurs aren't repeating without Kawhi, but carry on with the it takes a village bullshit if it makes you feel better.

Spurs aren't repeating with Kawhi. Too much has to happen elsewhere in the league to give the Spurs that window of opportunity. However I find it amusing that some of you have put Kawhi on a pedestal because of 3 games in the Finals. He sucked the first two games, and yeah he found it somewhere in there but so did Manu and so did Patty Mills. To be honest, game 5 was looking bleak until Manu came in and dropped napalm all over the place. Kawhi did his thing, but his performance wasn't Earth shattering, it's just that there were no real standouts otherwise. Everyone played so well, which is why people are making the point that the team plays well without any one particular guy. If they ever get into the mode where they cannot play without one guy, they are doomed anyhow.

DMC

01-02-2015, 02:54 AM

Good God. You don't know shit about basketball. He does so much more than just score the basketball and he may just be the best perimeter defender in the game.
So? Did the Spurs go tits up last season when Kawhi was out? I'm guessing Tony being replaced by Cory fucking Joseph with basically no backup PG really doesn't factor in. You're a fucking idiot if you think the Spurs have a binary outcome based on Kawhi being on the floor.

rasuo214

01-02-2015, 02:56 AM

Nathan89

01-02-2015, 03:18 AM

Spurs aren't repeating without Kawhi.

You could say that about a lot of players on the spurs.

DMC

01-02-2015, 03:21 AM

There's a big difference between playing an entire game without a player and 10 or so mins.

So KL being out accounts for the poor shooting of the Spurs, the turnovers, missing FTs... all that?

Nathan89

01-02-2015, 03:26 AM

We won 61 games the year before kawhi got here. Let's not act like this team is trash right now just because kawhi is out.

apalisoc_9

01-02-2015, 03:43 AM

We won 61 games the year before kawhi got here. Let's not act like this team is trash right now just because kawhi is out.

:lmao

scanry

01-02-2015, 04:17 AM

We won 61 games the year before kawhi got here. Let's not act like this team is trash right now just because kawhi is out.

Fools gold team, Nathan. For some reason (probably due to boredom), I taped over 40 regular season games that season and i cringe whenever i play one of those videos.

This was our rotation that season.

Tony Parker
Richard Jefferson
Manu Ginobili
Tim Duncan
George Hill
Matt Bonner
DeJuan Blair
Gary Neal
Antonio McDyess

Tiago was a rookie and got no PT.

rasuo214

01-02-2015, 04:28 AM

So KL being out accounts for the poor shooting of the Spurs, the turnovers, missing FTs... all that?

Is it the sole reason? No. Is it a factor? Most certainly. When you have an important piece of the team out you are forcing others to take on a bigger role. Guys like Manu, TD, Marco and Green are playing more minutes and are forced into larger offensive roles. Now could they handle it in a short period? Yes but over the long term it tends to get exploited, unless you have someone capable of filling that role. The Spurs don't really have one, which makes Kawhi 1 of the most (if not the most) important players on the team because there is a lack of replacement.

MPG since Kawhi has been out vs last season:
TD: 35.6 (32.3 excluding 3OT games) vs last year 29.2
Manu: 28.8 (26.5 excluding 3OT games) vs last year 22.8
Green: 35.6 (31.5 excluding 3OT games) vs last year 24.3
Marco: 32.7 (31.3 excluding 3OT games) vs last year 25.2

rasuo214

01-02-2015, 04:46 AM

We won 61 games the year before kawhi got here. Let's not act like this team is trash right now just because kawhi is out.

Manu, Parker and TD were 4 years younger, Blair was playing decently, George Hill. The competition out west is also a lot tougher now than it was 4 seasons ago. Also as much as people shit on Richard Jefferson he is more capable than Beli at SF. The biggest reason Kawhi is so important to the team is the lack of replacement.

timtonymanu

01-02-2015, 04:48 AM

We won 61 games the year before kawhi got here. Let's not act like this team is trash right now just because kawhi is out.

This doesn't make any sense. What did the team accomplish in the playoffs before Kawhi got there? Two 1st round exits and a second round sweep. Yeah, this team was already good without Kawhi.

timtonymanu

01-02-2015, 04:53 AM

While I do agree that Kawhi is the Spurs best overall player right now and saying otherwise is crazy, I don't think the Spurs can repeat only if Kawhi is in the lineup. They need all 7 (8, I guess, to please the Enrique fans) of their guys to have a chance at repeating.

I do think Kawhi is the most important piece of the team, however. Followed by Duncan and Green.

Russo21

01-02-2015, 06:06 AM

Humans just aren't meant to have hands that freakin big.

Cowboys_Wear_Spurs

01-02-2015, 09:07 AM

Pop is benching him and Parker because he knows in December the Spurs got fucked with the scheduling. I don't think either injuries are that terrible. But Pop knows the Spurs have a lot of down time at the beginning of January.

Both should be back this month. I think TP will be back in a few days and Kawhi, in a week or so. Pop is just being cautious. Remember when the Lakers started 11-19 and finished with a 50 game season in 2003. Grant it, they lost to us that year in the playoffs, but Phil knew that giving players rest early was the key for another playoff run. I see the Spurs going on a run like the Lakers to finish the season given the Spurs have an easy schedule going forward.

If Horry hit that 3 in game 5, there is no doubt that the Lakers probably would have won 4 straight championships. Spurs just went on 3 long playoff runs (WCF, Finals, Finals) like those Lakers did. Pop is just be cautious with TP, Kawhi, Splitter, and Mills as all 4 are key for the Spurs to repeat this year.

http://projectspurs.com/2014-articles/popovich-says-leonard-parker-remain-out-compliments-greens-expanded-offense.html

Brazil

01-02-2015, 10:29 AM

Not sure this Pop's quote dated from december 25th has been posted tbh...

But Popovich said he remains out indefinitely.
“It’s a pain thing,” Popovich said. “He can’t move his hand. He can’t catch and dribble and all that kind of stuff with his hand. Hopefully something will happen. Medically they don’t think he can hurt it any more than he’s hurt now.
“So it’s just a matter of when he can get use of the hand because it’s too stiff and doesn’t work the way your hand works. It’s not there yet. Will it be there tomorrow against New Orleans? Will it be there two weeks from now? I honestly don’t know.”

Nathan89

01-02-2015, 11:20 AM

This doesn't make any sense. What did the team accomplish in the playoffs before Kawhi got there? Two 1st round exits and a second round sweep. Yeah, this team was already good without Kawhi.

I didn't say they were contenders. Simply stating the reason we're losing in the regular season shouldn't all be attributed to the absence of kawhi.

taps

01-02-2015, 11:29 AM

...Popovich said he remains out indefinitely. “It’s a pain thing,” Popovich said. “He can’t move his hand... Hopefully something will happen. Medically they don’t think he can hurt it any more... “So it’s just a matter of when he can get use of the hand because it’s too stiff... It’s not there yet. Will it be there two weeks from now? I honestly don’t know.”
All these quotes to me point to Pop waiting it out & ruling out surgery. The bolded statement is most troubling to me. Seems there like is Pop hedging his bet and leaving himself wiggle room in case Leonard's out for 2015.

If Horry hit that 3 in game 5, there is no doubt that the Lakers probably would have won 4 straight championships.
Nah. I agree with your premise otherwise, though.

Nathan89

01-02-2015, 11:31 AM

The biggest reason Kawhi is so important to the team is the lack of replacement.

Agree with this but we can still win without him in the regular season.

Brazil

01-02-2015, 11:41 AM

Agree with this but we can still win without him in the regular season.

of course we can but it is more efforts to be asked to in particular Tim and Manu... which sucks

Sean Cagney

01-02-2015, 02:43 PM

F this and that speculation and guessing for now I will just wait for an official word whenever that comes out.

DMC

01-02-2015, 02:50 PM

Is it the sole reason? No. Is it a factor? Most certainly. When you have an important piece of the team out you are forcing others to take on a bigger role. Guys like Manu, TD, Marco and Green are playing more minutes and are forced into larger offensive roles. Now could they handle it in a short period? Yes but over the long term it tends to get exploited, unless you have someone capable of filling that role. The Spurs don't really have one, which makes Kawhi 1 of the most (if not the most) important players on the team because there is a lack of replacement.

MPG since Kawhi has been out vs last season:
TD: 35.6 (32.3 excluding 3OT games) vs last year 29.2
Manu: 28.8 (26.5 excluding 3OT games) vs last year 22.8
Green: 35.6 (31.5 excluding 3OT games) vs last year 24.3
Marco: 32.7 (31.3 excluding 3OT games) vs last year 25.2

No one has argued that it's not a factor. It being a factor means it's not the only factor. Having multiple factors that lead to losing games cannot be easily whittled down to KL being out.

apalisoc_9

01-02-2015, 03:14 PM

Agree with this but we can still win without him in the regular season.

hey we've been winning games without him that's for sure..

:lmao

Sean Cagney

01-02-2015, 03:46 PM

hey we've been winning games without him that's for sure..

:lmaoI was going to say this as well, we have had others out no doubt but he is the main one out so far this year and they are not winning games without him (Here or there but thats IT), they had the worst December since 97 and ironically he was out for that.

Dre_7

01-02-2015, 04:34 PM

I read somewhere that with Kawhi in the lineup the Spurs give up only 94 points per 100 possesions. With him out it jumps something like 106 points per 100 possesions. He is crucial!

pgardn

01-02-2015, 05:35 PM

It's ridiculous to think the Spurs can't go back to back if healthy like last year.

That was some of the best basketball on the planet, possibly the best EVER in the later rounds.
HS and college coaches should have some of those games on file to witness the utter beauty.
Basketball orgasmic stuff that was. Both ends. (D and O of course)

loveforthegame

01-02-2015, 05:56 PM

look_at_g_shred

01-02-2015, 05:56 PM

@JMcDonald_SAEN: Sense among Spurs that Parker will return before Leonard does. Parker maybe a game or two more. Timetable on Leonard sounds trickier.

marinoman

01-02-2015, 06:05 PM

he is the most important player on the team. He guards the oppositions best perimeter player usually, forget steals and blocks, he heavily effects the efficency of the player he guards.
You think he was quiet against dallas? Look at montes numbers in game 1 and 2, then the other games when kawhi guarded him. Go look at lilards numbers with kawhii on him. Westbrick and maybe joe johnson are the only players ive seen with good games against him. and lebron i guess but not as good as usual

Nathan89

01-02-2015, 06:18 PM

hey we've been winning games without him that's for sure..

:lmao

Other factors combined with kawhi being out has led to that.

DMC

01-02-2015, 07:20 PM

hey we've been winning games without him that's for sure..

:lmao
Pinoy faggot alert

wildchild

01-03-2015, 12:10 AM

There's a distinct bifurcation happening here. It's the false dichotomy that either Kawhi is unimportant or he's the reason the Spurs are in a slump. The truth is not as cut and dry. The Spurs have been playing uninspired ball on both ends. When Leonard was out in the Finals the Spurs still moved the ball. He didn't play 48 minutes a game. Danny Green played defense, Manu didn't turn the ball over 5 times in 20 minutes and go 3-15 or whatever. Danny wasn't shooting 1-6 from 3. Those facts have nothing to do with Kawhi being out. Sure he impacts the team, but he's not the reason they are losing so many games.

Kawhi's absence is the main reason Spurs are losing many games.
Like Pop said he's the best defender, he gives us the versatility defensively we didn't have before, and his position is really important to rebound, to help the bigs...

You said yourself that Leonard is a bigger part of the offense this year, but what changed from last year when he wasn't?

He is taking on a bigger offensive role because Pop wants it and the team need he play more prominent role.

What changed...? Tim and Manu took more rest of their offensive responsibilities than other seasons (before his hand injury Duncan was 3rd and Manu 4th scoring leaders) and with Tony eventual loss of speed as he ages -more noticeable this season because injuries limited him- Leonard emerged like a genuine offensive option.

That's why he's the most irreplaceable player on this team. While his offensive burden increasing, he still does all of his invaluable work on defense.

Did the Spurs go tits up last season when Kawhi was out? I'm guessing Tony being replaced by Cory fucking Joseph with basically no backup PG really doesn't factor in

Spurs won with Tony injured last WCF but they probably can't win conference finals without Leonard at full health this season.
Tony/Manu can score many points but they can't defend/rebound like Kawhi, and Tiago can play great defense but he can't carry the team on the offensive end like Leonard in some games this season.

He's an elite all around player and this team miss him more than other players.

I find it amusing that some of you have put Kawhi on a pedestal because of 3 games in the Finals.
Leonard played well only 3 games in the Finals...so game 6 and 7 of 2013 Finals, his games in last conference semifinals against Blazers, game 5 and 6 last WCF, or his great games without the Big 3 last/this regular season, never happened.

wildchild

01-03-2015, 12:43 AM

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2015/01/02/the-defensive-dominance-of-kawhi-leonard/#29527101=0

Nice comments by Monty Williams.

The article lists some pretty incredible numbers on just how important Leonard is.

Enjoy. :tu

Impressive numbers.

When Davis wonders where his Big 3 it's good to know Leonard is respected by Pels' coach but cap space is still their worst enemy...

apalisoc_9

01-03-2015, 01:27 AM

Impressive numbers.

When Davis wonders where his Big 3 it's good to know Leonard is respected by Pels' coach but cap space is still their worst enemy...

Davis and kawhi in the same team...:wow

DMC

01-03-2015, 01:29 AM

Kawhi's absence is the main reason Spurs are losing many games.

Like Pop said he's the best defender, he gives us the versatility defensively we didn't have before, and his position is really important to rebound, to help the bigs...

Like I said, if the Spurs are going to lose to sub .500 teams because one of their players is out, they aren't very strong to begin with. He's not a PG, he doesn't run the offense and the Spurs don't really even call plays for him. He's important, absolutely, but so is Tony and so is Danny's shooting stroke. Take those two out (and Patty's conditioning and shooting) and you suddenly have a .500 or so level team.

He is taking on a bigger offensive role because Pop wants it and the team need he play more prominent role.

Right now they don't since he's not playing. Surely you don't think Pop is calling plays for a guy who's not on the floor.

What changed...? Tim and Manu took more rest of their offensive responsibilities than other seasons (before his hand injury Duncan was 3rd and Manu 4th scoring leaders) and with Tony eventual loss of speed as he ages -more noticeable this season because injuries limited him- Leonard emerged like a genuine offensive option.

The loss isn't a binary function. What is binary is that players are either in or they aren't in. Tony hasn't been in much, Patty hasn't been in at all until lately. Tiago came around late. Marco has been playing poorly. Manu started off slow. Danny can't throw the ball into the ocean. Tim is Tim, like always, 20/10 guy.

That's why he's the most irreplaceable player on this team. While his offensive burden increasing, he still does all of his invaluable work on defense.

Tim is still the most irreplaceable player on the team. Once he retires you'll understand.

Spurs won with Tony injured last WCF but they probably can't win conference finals without Leonard at full health this season.
Tony/Manu can score many points but they can't defend/rebound like Kawhi, and Tiago can play great defense but he can't carry the team on the offensive end like Leonard in some games this season.

Conference Finals? We're talking about beating the Pelicans during the regular season, and losing to the Lakers. We're not talking about high end shit. Of course your team needs to be firing on all cylinders to be successful at the top tiers.

He's an elite all around player and this team miss him more than other players.

If Duncan was out for a month or two, you'd see how much he's missed. Tiago can do some work but he's not Tim, and there's just no one to guard the paint when Tim is out. Tim, Tony and Manu are still the engine of the Spurs. Kawhi is moving right up in there, but the team can still be RS successful with Kawhi out. They have the ball movement and chemistry to win games they've been losing this year.

Leonard played well only 3 games in the Finals...so game 6 and 7 of 2013 Finals, his games in last conference semifinals against Blazers, game 5 and 6 last WCF, or his great games without the Big 3 last/this regular season, never happened.
I have no fucking idea what you just said, what it means or whatever. Sounds like something passive aggressive.

It's not yet even mid season, but until the Spurs get that chip on their shoulders they aren't going to be very good this year. It's hard to get that chip on your shoulder when you're wearing last year's championship ring.

apalisoc_9

01-03-2015, 01:54 AM

The spurs have a winning record against teams without Parker in the last two years..So NO..Taking him out does not = Kawhi out.

:lmao

rasuo214

01-03-2015, 02:06 AM

Losing Tim isn't a binary function. What is binary is that players are either in or they aren't in. BLAH BLAH BLAH.

The same argument can be made for anyone on the team.

wildchild

01-03-2015, 02:41 AM

Like I said, if the Spurs are going to lose to sub .500 teams because one of their players is out, they aren't very strong to begin with. He's not a PG, he doesn't run the offense and the Spurs don't really even call plays for him. He's important, absolutely, but so is Tony and so is Danny's shooting stroke. Take those two out (and Patty's conditioning and shooting) and you suddenly have a .500 or so level team.
Agree with you. Only if Spurs lose three players it can match the effects of Kawhi's absence. Three players to try to replace one.

Right now they don't since he's not playing. Surely you don't think Pop is calling plays for a guy who's not on the floor.
Leonard's not dead, hopefully he doesn't have a season-ending injury, it's nothing wrong with talk about him and his season in present.

Tim, Tony and Manu are still the engine of the Spurs.
Can't sum up the whole thing in this ^.
"Kawhi is a role player" is an old take and clearly not representative of the team's reality.

I have no fucking idea what you just said, what it means or whatever. Sounds like something passive aggressive
You should know what I mean if you say people assign Leonard's value for only three good games...when he played a lot of great games.

DMC

01-03-2015, 03:26 AM

Agree with you. Only if Spurs lose three players it can match the effects of Kawhi's absence. Three players to try to replace one.

That's retarded.

Leonard's not dead, hopefully he doesn't have a season-ending injury, it's nothing wrong with talk about him and his season in present.

My point is that Pop has plays for situations where players are out so whether or not Leonard is part of the offense when he's healthy has nothing to do with what the Spurs run when he's not.

Can't sum up the whole thing in this ^.
"Kawhi is a role player" is an old take and clearly not representative of the team's reality.

He's not a role player, but he's not yet the "straw that stirs the drink" so to speak. Everything he's done has been on the shoulders of the big 3. He looks like he can do great things, and has done some great things already, but he's only a few years into the league and you're comparing him to guys who have been the main force in SA for a decade or more.

You should know what I mean if you say people assign Leonard's value for only three good games...when he played a lot of great games.
Leonard missed a crucial FT in game 6 of the 2013 Finals. So did Manu, and Manu had a ton of turnovers. If you put the success of the Spurs on Leonard's shoulders, you're an idiot.

DMC

01-03-2015, 03:28 AM

Losing Tim isn't a binary function. What is binary is that players are either in or they aren't in. BLAH BLAH BLAH.

The same argument can be made for anyone on the team.
That's not what I said, idiot. I said Tony losing his speed isn't a binary function. Try to keep up, fanboi.

DMC

01-03-2015, 03:31 AM

The spurs have a winning record against teams without Parker in the last two years..So NO..Taking him out does not = Kawhi out.

:lmao
The Spurs' success is due to them not being overly dependent on any one player. You're now saying they cannot win without Kawhi. That goes totally against Pop's method and the Spurs system.

rasuo214

01-03-2015, 03:36 AM

That's not what I said, idiot. I said Tony losing his speed isn't a binary function. Try to keep up, fanboi.

You're a fucking idiot if you think the Spurs have a binary outcome based on Kawhi being on the floor.

The loss isn't a binary function. What is binary is that players are either in or they aren't in. Tony hasn't been in much, Patty hasn't been in at all until lately. Tiago came around late. Marco has been playing poorly. Manu started off slow. Danny can't throw the ball into the ocean. Tim is Tim, like always, 20/10 guy.

...

DMC

01-03-2015, 03:39 AM

"What changed...? Tim and Manu took more rest of their offensive responsibilities than other seasons (before his hand injury Duncan was 3rd and Manu 4th scoring leaders) and with Tony eventual loss of speed as he ages -more noticeable this season because injuries limited him- Leonard emerged like a genuine offensive option."

"The loss isn't a binary function. What is binary is that players are either in or they aren't in. Tony hasn't been in much, Patty hasn't been in at all until lately. Tiago came around late. Marco has been playing poorly. Manu started off slow. Danny can't throw the ball into the ocean. Tim is Tim, like always, 20/10 guy."

Context... dipshit

I notice most here who responded didn't put the Spurs at zero wins with Kawhi out in January. That means it's not a binary outcome. Affects the game, doesn't decide it.

Robz4000

01-03-2015, 03:43 AM

The Spurs' success is due to them not being overly dependent on any one player. You're now saying they cannot win without Kawhi. That goes totally against Pop's method and the Spurs system.

Their RS success, yes. However, once the postseason comes around the Spurs may be the most susceptible to dropping in status due to injury. What makes the Spurs so tough to beat is their adaptability and versatility; they can play any style of basketball and do it better than just about any other team out there. That is able to be done because of the diversity of the roster. Lets say Diaw gets hurt and misses the playoffs. In that scenario the Spurs would be fucked just as well if it were Duncan, Leonard, Parker, or Manu. The Spurs as I see it have 7-8 unreplaceable pieces in Tim, Kawhi, Manu, Tony, Boris, Splitter, Green, and Mills (though CoJo looks like he might be able to cover should Mills go down). Without one of those players the Spurs lose a facet of their game and become very vulnerable. While its true they can beat most teams on chemistry and system-play alone, to beat the teams with more talent like OKC/Dallas/Chicago/Golden State/Portland they'll need to be at full strength to overcome that disadvantage.

DMC

01-03-2015, 03:45 AM

Their RS success, yes. However, once the postseason comes around the Spurs may be the most susceptible to dropping in status due to injury. What makes the Spurs so tough to beat is their adaptability and versatility; they can play any style of basketball and do it better than just about any other team out there. That is able to be done because of the diversity of the roster. Lets say Diaw gets hurt and misses the playoffs. In that scenario the Spurs would be fucked just as well if it were Duncan, Leonard, Parker, or Manu. The Spurs as I see it have 7-8 unreplaceable pieces in Tim, Kawhi, Manu, Tony, Boris, Splitter, Green, and Mills (though CoJo looks like he might be able to cover should Mills go down). Without one of those players the Spurs lose a facet of their game and become very vulnerable. While its true they can beat most teams on chemistry and system-play alone, to beat the teams with more talent like OKC/Dallas/Chicago/Golden State/Portland they'll need to be at full strength to overcome that disadvantage.
But we are in the RS now, and the slump is what we are talking about. I've already agreed that a deep post season run requires all your guys be healthy. Even if Manu was injured, we'd be fucked, and Manu isn't even the contributor he used to be.

Kawhi being out isn't the issue. The team is playing poorly on both ends. You go that far in the playoffs three consecutive years and it's going to weigh on everyone from the ownership down to the bench.

rasuo214

01-03-2015, 03:47 AM

DMC

01-03-2015, 03:47 AM

But the Spurs would be screwed if they lost TD...

Context

Robz4000

01-03-2015, 03:47 AM

But we are in the RS now, and the slump is what we are talking about. I've already agreed that a deep post season run requires all your guys be healthy. Even if Manu was injured, we'd be fucked, and Manu isn't even the contributor he used to be.

Didn't bother to read most of this thread tbh. My bad.

rasuo214

01-03-2015, 03:50 AM

DMC

01-03-2015, 03:51 AM

You're right context is important, your response was a discussion on why Kawhi has become a bigger part of the offense. Maybe next time you should clarify when you change the topic instead of getting butthurt over it.
My response wasn't to you. Maybe you should read the post before making one of your own. Learn how to use quote tags instead of paraphrasing.

rasuo214

01-03-2015, 03:53 AM

Context

If Duncan was out for a month or two, you'd see how much he's missed. Tiago can do some work but he's not Tim, and there's just no one to guard the paint when Tim is out. Tim, Tony and Manu are still the engine of the Spurs. Kawhi is moving right up in there, but the team can still be RS successful with Kawhi out. They have the ball movement and chemistry to win games they've been losing this year.

Team performs poorly with Kawhi out = It's because the rest of the team is playing poorly
Team performs poorly with TD out = It's because TD is vital to the team.

If you're going to make the Pop's method argument at least try to be consistent in the same thread.

DMC

01-03-2015, 03:55 AM

Team performs poorly with Kawhi out = It's because the rest of the team is playing poorly
Team performs poorly with TD out = It's because TD is vital to the team.

If you're going to make the Pop's method argument at least try to be consistent in the same thread.

Now you're inferring things I didn't say. I said Tim is the most irreplaceable part. He's leading the race for DPOY and he's a regular 20/10 guy. Kawhi is a great defender, but he's nowhere near that.

rasuo214

01-03-2015, 03:56 AM

My response wasn't to you. Maybe you should read the post before making one of your own. Learn how to use quote tags instead of paraphrasing.

um my response clearly indicates that I read all the posts. Also lol at you getting offended about my response when your entire argument has been about the loss of Kawhi isn't binary.

DMC

01-03-2015, 04:03 AM

um my response clearly indicates that I read all the posts. Also lol at you getting offended about my response when your entire argument has been about the loss of Kawhi isn't binary.

You're not very bright.

rasuo214

01-03-2015, 04:08 AM

Now you're inferring things I didn't say. I said Tim is the most irreplaceable part. He's leading the race for DPOY and he's a regular 20/10 guy. Kawhi is a great defender, but he's nowhere near that.

You implied that Kawhi was the 4th? most important player on the team (TD/Manu/TP being the engine) when all the facts point to him being at least the 2nd most important (on/off court stats, WAR, RPM) and arguably the most important because he lacks a decent replacement.

Personally I would say that losing Kawhi is as big as losing TD. TD is no longer a 20/10 guy (he hasn't been one in almost a decade), what makes him so vital to the team, and what makes Kawhi so vital is their impact on the defensive end.

rasuo214

01-03-2015, 04:10 AM

You're not very bright.

Maybe if I speak in simpler terms and use your idiotic logic I can be as bright as you.

Kawhi isn't the leading scorer on the team so he sucks and is easily replaced. Better?

DMC

01-03-2015, 04:18 AM

Maybe if I speak in simpler terms and use your idiotic logic I can be as bright as you.

Kawhi isn't the leading scorer on the team so he sucks and is easily replaced. Better?
You're basically "PlayLeonard" of ST. You fit right in with the other "PlayXXX" user names. Every other post you've ever created here is about Kawhi.

Let me help you out:

1. Learn to use the quote function. It's there for a reason, so you don't end up arguing with a douche nozzle like you about paraphrased shit you didn't even say.
2. Read the thread before responding.
3. Learn the game of basketball (it's not just about having a favorite player).

Robz4000

01-03-2015, 04:19 AM

Man, the crops of new GNSFs get worse and worse every season...

DMC

01-03-2015, 04:22 AM

Man, the crops of new GNSFs get worse and worse every season...

80% of the guy's posts are regarding Kawhi Leonard.

Sean Cagney

01-03-2015, 04:33 AM

Man, the crops of new GNSFs get worse and worse every season...

They are F in horrible, excuse my french.

rasuo214

01-03-2015, 05:55 AM

Oh no a Kawhi fan! If only I made a bunch of pointless posts a day, then I'd fit in...

DrSteffo

01-03-2015, 08:25 AM

So? Did the Spurs go tits up last season when Kawhi was out? I'm guessing Tony being replaced by Cory fucking Joseph with basically no backup PG really doesn't factor in. You're a fucking idiot if you think the Spurs have a binary outcome based on Kawhi being on the floor.

Wow you are one aggressive poster. Kawhi increases the probability of a Spurs win. That means that some potential losses (but of course not all) would become wins if he plays and in those particular games it is indeed a binary outcome. Same goes for other great players.

DMX7

01-03-2015, 12:01 PM

So? Did the Spurs go tits up last season when Kawhi was out? I'm guessing Tony being replaced by Cory fucking Joseph with basically no backup PG really doesn't factor in. You're a fucking idiot if you think the Spurs have a binary outcome based on Kawhi being on the floor.

Take a look at the Spurs' record with and without Kawhi Leonard in the lineup last season, then get back to me.

Also, CJ has been playing well.... he's not the problem.

Mr Bones

01-03-2015, 12:36 PM

Agree. What's the different about the Spurs being eliminated in first round...? Kawhi is the obvious answer with his momentum-changing plays on both ends in crucial games.
On a team where the Big 3 and coach remained static, Leonard was the biggest addition and the reason we have been able to win a title again.

I agree Kawhi is the biggest part of the Spurs' improvement, but I think you also have to acknowledge the integration and improvement of Splitter, Diaw, and Green, which coincided with the teams' improvement. Splitter, Green, and Kawhi combined to return the Spurs back into a relevant defensive power (they'd gone away from that with Blair & Jefferson), and Diaw was a big part of their transition from a team that relied on the penetration of Parker and Ginobili to a team that relied more on ball movement and getting open looks on 3s.

spurs10

01-03-2015, 01:23 PM

Wow you are one aggressive poster. Kawhi increases the probability of a Spurs win. That means that some potential losses (but of course not all) would become wins if he plays and in those particular games it is indeed a binary outcome. Same goes for other great players. Thank you! Well said. It's basic concept and not rocket science. Whether we win or lose is indeed the definition of a 'binary outcome.'

DMC

01-03-2015, 01:47 PM

Take a look at the Spurs' record with and without Kawhi Leonard in the lineup last season, then get back to me.

Also, CJ has been playing well.... he's not the problem.
CJ has been doing fine, but not Tony Parker fine.

DMC

01-03-2015, 01:52 PM

Wow you are one aggressive poster. Kawhi increases the probability of a Spurs win. That means that some potential losses (but of course not all) would become wins if he plays and in those particular games it is indeed a binary outcome. Same goes for other great players.

So in cherry picked situations you can have a binary outcome based on whether or not any particular player did or did not play. Sounds like a red herring.

Vic Petro

01-03-2015, 06:55 PM

551526350968717313

dabom

01-03-2015, 07:04 PM

551526350968717313

weeks is better than fucking never. lol

Beaverfuzz

01-03-2015, 07:05 PM

All Star break.

look_at_g_shred

01-03-2015, 07:45 PM

I'll say two weeks (wishful thinking) good thing is we don't have too many games this week.

look_at_g_shred

01-03-2015, 07:46 PM

I wonder if they realize he won't need surgery after all.

loveforthegame

01-03-2015, 08:47 PM

Weeks still? :td

Ice009

01-03-2015, 09:24 PM

For fucks sake. What's the point of all the secrecy.

Are they waiting to see if he needs surgery? I don't see why they won't give out any information.

loveforthegame

01-03-2015, 10:06 PM

For fucks sake. What's the point of all the secrecy.

Are they waiting to see if he needs surgery? I don't see why they won't give out any information.

It's screwy to me.

It's been a few weeks and he still can't catch a ball?

Would the Spurs really gamble with a player if he likely needs surgery?? Especially so early in the season.

exstatic

01-03-2015, 10:24 PM

For fucks sake. What's the point of all the secrecy.

Are they waiting to see if he needs surgery? I don't see why they won't give out any information.

Have you even followed this issue AT ALL? They don't KNOW what it is. Their specialist has NEVER SEEN THIS. You don't just cut a guy because the fans go all apeshit emo.

Hoops Czar

01-03-2015, 10:50 PM

No Leonard, no problem, tbh.

apalisoc_9

01-03-2015, 11:03 PM

The thunder,cavs and pels have won multiple games without KD, Lebron and Davis.

Hoops:lol

ElNono

01-03-2015, 11:11 PM

For fucks sake. What's the point of all the secrecy.

Are they waiting to see if he needs surgery? I don't see why they won't give out any information.

They just said it will take some weeks... what else you need to know?

Sean Cagney

01-03-2015, 11:18 PM

For fucks sake. What's the point of all the secrecy.

Are they waiting to see if he needs surgery? I don't see why they won't give out any information.I agree man, just say he is out now and have surgery and stop prolonging this shit. It gets old by now.

Hoops Czar

01-03-2015, 11:23 PM

The thunder,cavs and pels have won multiple games without KD, Lebron and Davis.

Hoops:lol

Cavs can't win with Lebron (Cavs 1-3 without); Pels are treading water at 17-16 (0-1 without)

Soc:lol

apalisoc_9

01-03-2015, 11:27 PM

Cavs can't win with Lebron (Cavs 1-3 without); Pels are treading water at 17-16 (0-1 without)

Soc:lol

Lies..

The Pels have won without Davis.

on and the Spurs are 6-7 without Leoanrd...:lol

Johnny RIngo

01-03-2015, 11:29 PM

SA should look into acquiring a backup wing soon. There's a very noticeable hole at SF this season with Kawhi out indefinitely. Doesn't help that Marco's done a piss poor job filling in.

Ice009

01-03-2015, 11:38 PM

Have you even followed this issue AT ALL? They don't KNOW what it is. Their specialist has NEVER SEEN THIS. You don't just cut a guy because the fans go all apeshit emo.

What do you mean have I followed the issue? All we've heard is different stories. The Spurs haven't given out any official info that I've seen. If so, where is the link? We don't know if any of it it's true.

First we heard it was a bruised hand
Then we heard it was a torn ligament and he'd be back pretty soon
After that it's the specialist that they saw hasn't seen this injury in 40 years
Now we get told that he can't catch, grip or hold a ball (this sounds very serious)

Nah, I haven't followed the issue at all. You seem to be the one with your head up the front office's asshole all the time. How about you take your head out for once and look around and question what is going on?

Surely they got a second opinion from a different specialist.

I want to know what they're waiting for now. Are they hoping it will get better, do they not know if it will get better? If so, they should just come out and say it. Is surgery an option? They don't seem to want to answer any of these questions. Don't even know if anyone from the SA media is even bothering to ask any of these questions.

I don't recall any other teams keeping their fan base in the dark like this about a star player during the regular season.

They just said it will take some weeks... what else you need to know?

What I want to know is this which I posted above - I want to know what they're waiting for now. Are they hoping it will get better, do they not know if it will get better? If so, they should just come out and say it. Is surgery an option? They don't seem to want to answer any of these questions. Don't even know if anyone from the SA media is even bothering to ask any of these questions.

To add to that, I'd like to know if they think their is a chance he might not be able to come back.

SA should look into acquiring a backup wing soon. There's a very noticeable hole at SF this season with Kawhi out indefinitely. Doesn't help that Marco's done a piss poor job filling in.

I've said it since before the 2013 season started, but Spurs don't seem like they tried very hard to do it. I'm sure they tried, but it just doesn't seem like they went all out to get a decent backup for Kawhi. Not sure why they thought they can just keep plugging SGs that can't play defense into the role of one of the best defensive SFs in the NBA, especially when two of the best players in the NBA play the SF/small ball PF position. I would have given Diaw time at PF/SF as a stopgap, but he's come back from the off-season in woeful shape.

Hoops Czar

01-03-2015, 11:52 PM

Lies..

The Pels have won without Davis.

on and the Spurs are 6-7 without Leoanrd...:lol

Davis missed one game, a loss to GS.

Spurs are 6-8 without Leonard; Spurs are 6-7 without Parker.

Edit: :lol

ElNono

01-03-2015, 11:55 PM

What I want to know is this which I posted above - I want to know what they're waiting for now. Are they hoping it will get better, do they not know if it will get better? If so, they should just come out and say it. Is surgery an option? They don't seem to want to answer any of these questions. Don't even know if anyone from the SA media is even bothering to ask any of these questions.

To add to that, I'd like to know if they think their is a chance he might not be able to come back.

We'll hear if he undergoes surgery. We'll also hear if he's done for the season. We always have heard stuff like that from this franchise when those things happened. I suspect they're just waiting to see the evolution of it before making any kind of statement. It's apparently not an injury they deal with everyday, so it makes sense they're cautious about it.

I know fans can get impatient, but we did just get a tentative timeline. I'm sure we'll hear more between now and then...

apalisoc_9

01-03-2015, 11:55 PM

Davis missed one game, a loss to GS.

Spurs are 6-8 without Leonard; Spurs are 6-7 without Parker.

last year the spurs were 8-8 without Leonard, with Parker playing.

Did I mention that the Thunder have been winning games without KD?

FkLA

01-03-2015, 11:58 PM

They said it will require off-season surgery in the postgame.

ElNono

01-04-2015, 12:01 AM

They said it will require off-season surgery in the postgame.

Sean also said that Pop said its not a pain thing... He can't catch or shoot the ball right now...

Ice009

01-04-2015, 12:02 AM

We'll hear if he undergoes surgery. We'll also hear if he's done for the season. We always have heard stuff like that from this franchise when those things happened. I suspect they're just waiting to see the evolution of it before making any kind of statement. It's apparently not an injury they deal with everyday, so it makes sense they're cautious about it.

I know fans can get impatient, but we did just get a tentative timeline. I'm sure we'll hear more between now and then...

I should have said that the Spurs seem to really drag it out before saying anything. Other teams seem to have quicker answers or information released so their fans know what is going on.

I'd just like a little more info on what they're thinking/doing about it for now. Maybe they are waiting to see what happens, but they're not really saying that for sure. Sean is saying he'll be back later rather than sooner, but maybe they just don't know if he'll be back at all. If that's where they're at, I'd like them to come out and say it. I really, really hope he can comeback though and play out the season with it not affecting him much.

Hoops Czar

01-04-2015, 12:12 AM

last year the spurs were 8-8 without Leonard, with Parker playing.

Did I mention that the Thunder have been winning games without KD?

Yes, you said it. That's like saying the Spurs have been winning without Leonard. They're a lottery team without Durant.

The Spurs aren't the same team as last year or I could say the Spurs were 15-6 in 2013 without Leonard, not counting the two losses pop sat the big 4.

Splits

01-04-2015, 02:02 AM

loveforthegame

01-04-2015, 02:06 AM

Not much else in the link other than it will be weeks before he returns. And that he tore a ligament near the base of his hand.

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Popovich-says-Leonard-will-remain-out-weeks-5992602.php?t=f1da568690927fc3fb&cmpid=twitter-premium

Pain tolerance is not an issue.

“His hand doesn’t work,” Popovich said. “If it just hurt he’d play. He’s a tough kid. But his hand doesn’t work. It doesn’t catch things. He can’t do what you do — shoot. He can’t grab.”

Leonard’s recovery has been steady but slow.

“Each day a little bit, less pain, more function.” Popovich said. “Not near enough to go play.”

ElNono

01-04-2015, 02:10 AM

I need to see the MVS/390 assembly source you used to come to this conclusion.

When Gino broke his hand, the team said so right away. Same when Kawhi broke his hand last season. Patty offseason surgery, ditto. I don't think they're being mysterious here, I just think they don't outright know for sure. When they do, I'm sure we'll hear about it.

Due to Kawhi being really important for us, I suspect they'll do the utmost to try to avoid surgery now and see if he can get well enough to play. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they announce a week from now that they're shutting him down. A lot will depend on how his healing progresses, I suspect.

Splits

01-04-2015, 02:16 AM

When Gino broke his hand, the team said so right away. Same when Kawhi broke his hand last season. Patty offseason surgery, ditto. I don't think they're being mysterious here, I just think they don't outright know for sure. When they do, I'm sure we'll hear about it.

Due to Kawhi being really important for us, I suspect they'll do the utmost to try to avoid surgery now and see if he can get well enough to play. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they announce a week from now that they're shutting him down. A lot will depend on how his healing progresses, I suspect.

Don't drop the punchcards

ElNono

01-04-2015, 02:17 AM

Don't drop the punchcards

Magnetic tape, IMO

SupremeGuy

01-04-2015, 02:22 AM

Sean Cagney

01-04-2015, 02:25 AM

I should have said that the Spurs seem to really drag it out before saying anything. Other teams seem to have quicker answers or information released so their fans know what is going on.

I'd just like a little more info on what they're thinking/doing about it for now. Maybe they are waiting to see what happens, but they're not really saying that for sure. Sean is saying he'll be back later rather than sooner, but maybe they just don't know if he'll be back at all. If that's where they're at, I'd like them to come out and say it. I really, really hope he can comeback though and play out the season with it not affecting him much.
I agree with your thought on they are just waiting to see what happens to see if it will get better, it is a wait and see game now and they don't even know IMO what will happen on this thing. Thats kind of scary but it's a wait game now.
When Gino broke his hand, the team said so right away. Same when Kawhi broke his hand last season. Patty offseason surgery, ditto. I don't think they're being mysterious here, I just think they don't outright know for sure. When they do, I'm sure we'll hear about it.

Due to Kawhi being really important for us, I suspect they'll do the utmost to try to avoid surgery now and see if he can get well enough to play. But I also wouldn't be surprised if they announce a week from now that they're shutting him down. A lot will depend on how his healing progresses, I suspect.
I agree, wait and see game now.

SupremeGuy

01-04-2015, 02:30 AM

At least they're saying that they're seeing daily improvement. I'm guessing they're having him do grip tests and shit.

wildchild

01-04-2015, 10:08 AM

Oh no a Kawhi fan! If only I made a bunch of pointless posts a day, then I'd fit in...

They can't accept the passage of time, they can't assume that at some age performance starts to decline and Tim-Tony-Manu aren't the dominant figures they were.
If you challenge them to get out of their "only Big 3 matter" "Leonard is just a role player" comfort zone, then they'll say that you're a X player's fan, it's a commonplace.

wildchild

01-04-2015, 10:13 AM

That's retarded
...you're an idiot.

I'm not the guy who say Leonard'value is inflated because he played well only three games...
I was questioning your statement but I'm under the impression that your lack of argumentation skills is a catalyst for your aggression.

However, the number of idiots deceived by Leonard's hype/overrated is growing.

On a team that features a trio of future Hall of Famers in Tim Duncan, Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili, Leonard has emerged as the Spurs’ most irreplaceable player.
http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Leonard-s-value-to-Spurs-underscored-by-absence-5991113.php?t=06be0a210f927fc3fb&cmpid=twitter-premium

DrSteffo

01-04-2015, 11:08 AM

So in cherry picked situations you can have a binary outcome based on whether or not any particular player did or did not play. Sounds like a red herring.

Nope. Kawhi increases the probability of a Spurs win. It's not rocket science.

DrSteffo

01-04-2015, 11:39 AM

Thank you! Well said. It's basic concept and not rocket science. Whether we win or lose is indeed the definition of a 'binary outcome.'

Yep. Cheers.

Chomag

01-04-2015, 11:57 AM

Spurs are being so vague its hard to understand whats going on... he has been out weeks yet the status we hear is he cant catch or shoot thw ball, that doesn't sound like progress to me. I know im speculating but with the lack of info and the continued constant beating around the bush I cant but to speculate as its pretty all we have to go bye. Its a little prompus to be treating the fans this way if you ask me, but what do I know.

All in all I just hope he gets better, I know its gotta be hard for him to have to sit out so much on a contract year.

Mel_13

01-04-2015, 12:05 PM

If we assume that the injury is not season-ending, then he'll still have plenty of time after his return even if he needs several more weeks.

The Spurs have played 35 games so far. They have 18 games before the week long All Star break that begins after the game on Feb 11th. If he returns on Feb 19th, he'll have had an additional 6+ weeks and there will be 29 games remaining on the schedule.

If they hold him out of the 6 game west coast swing of the RRT that follows the All Star Break, he won't come back until the 6 game homestand that begins on March 4th. That will give him more than 2 full months of additional recovery time and the Spurs will still have 23 games left on the schedule.

100%duncan

01-04-2015, 12:16 PM

I can't imagine the meltdown when they announce that he's done for the season. My oh my a repeat chance slapped in the face by injuries, what else is knew

DMC

01-04-2015, 03:35 PM

I'm not the guy who say Leonard'value is inflated because he played well only three games...

Paraphrasing works so well when you want to build a strawman.

I was questioning your statement but I'm under the impression that your lack of argumentation skills is a catalyst for your aggression.

I'm not the one paraphrasing and attacking the easier target.

However, the number of idiots deceived by Leonard's hype/overrated is growing.

http://www.expressnews.com/sports/spurs/article/Leonard-s-value-to-Spurs-underscored-by-absence-5991113.php?t=06be0a210f927fc3fb&cmpid=twitter-premium
More strawmen.

The team isn't losing because of Leonard. Otherwise they would have lost last night as well. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I realize you want Leonard to be Michael Jordan, but the Spurs don't run that way. Sure Leonard is a factor, but so is Tony Parker. Leonard might be a bigger factor than Tony, probably is, but his absence doesn't cause the Spurs to shoot 20% from 3.

Oh and I stopped reading after this: "From James Harden to Kobe Bryant"..

DMC

01-04-2015, 03:46 PM

Nope. Kawhi increases the probability of a Spurs win. It's not rocket science.
That's a neutered version of the original argument that the Spurs are losing because Kawhi isn't playing.

DrSteffo

01-04-2015, 07:24 PM

That's a neutered version of the original argument that the Spurs are losing because Kawhi isn't playing.

No, because it means we win more games when he plays than when he doesn't. Winning games is good. It's not complicated.

DMC

01-04-2015, 08:06 PM

No, because it means we win more games when he plays than when he doesn't. Winning games is good. It's not complicated.

But it doesn't mean we lose 6 of 7 because he's not playing. Any player with a positive VORP enables the Spurs to win more games when he's playing than when his backup is playing. It doesn't mean the team is doomed if his backup is playing.

weeks

01-04-2015, 08:58 PM

I'm surprised more people aren't cliff jumping over this. It's bad, bad news. Seems like we always get fucked during repeat years

BillMc

01-04-2015, 09:18 PM

I'm surprised more people aren't cliff jumping over this. It's bad, bad news. Seems like we always get fucked during repeat years

The ironic thing might be that with all the old guys on this team it is our youngest key piece that get's seriously injured. (Since we assume Parker will be back shortly).

Sean Cagney

01-04-2015, 09:33 PM

I'm surprised more people aren't cliff jumping over this. It's bad, bad news. Seems like we always get fucked during repeat years
It is what it is man :( I still am happy they got #5 before it was all said and done and will be happy with that if he can't get healthy again this year.

Ice009

01-04-2015, 09:50 PM

I'm surprised more people aren't cliff jumping over this. It's bad, bad news. Seems like we always get fucked during repeat years

That's why I started the thread. It seems like not many people are overly concerned about one of the top 2 players on the team being potentially out for the season. The other thread only had like 3 or 4 pages which I find strange. Maybe this board is now filled with too many trolls to give a shit?

apalisoc_9

01-04-2015, 09:59 PM

That's why I started the thread. It seems like not many people are overly concerned about one of the top 2 players on the team being potentially out for the season. The other thread only had like 3 or 4 pages which I find strange. Maybe this board is now filled with too many trolls to give a shit?

Most fans still think Manu and Parker are more valuable.

Top 2? He's the most valuable..

Again, most fans are big 3 mainstream fans anyway..They wouldn't know how important it is.

Ice009

01-04-2015, 10:05 PM

Most fans still think Manu and Parker are more valuable.

Top 2? He's the most valuable..

Again, most fans are big 3 mainstream fans anyway..They wouldn't know how important it is.

Tim and Kawhi are 1a and 1b. If Tim's out and Kawhi was playing, Spurs still wouldn't have a chance to win anything (I'm talking Championship, not regular season games).

What I'm also wondering, if Kawhi does play through this, can it get any worse to the point where it can affect his career. It's his shooting hand, so I'm a bit worried about that too. I assume the Spurs wouldn't bring him back if it could stuff his hand up long term?

wildchild

01-05-2015, 01:14 AM

More strawmen.
Of course, everybody is wrong except you.

The team isn't losing because of Leonard. Otherwise they would have lost last night as well. Why is that so hard for you to understand? I realize you want Leonard to be Michael Jordan, but the Spurs don't run that way. Sure Leonard is a factor, but so is Tony Parker. Leonard might be a bigger factor than Tony, probably is, but his absence doesn't cause the Spurs to shoot 20% from 3.

Your example failed again.
Like when you said "there's just no one to guard the paint when Tim is out". While Kawhi is usually assigned to guard the opponent's best perimeter player, Tim rarely defend the opposing top bigman offensive threat -who is Tiago's assignment-.

About the 3's...This season Leonard does a great job of recognizing the double team in the post and passing to the open man creating the opportunities for the Spurs three-point shooters to take a wide open shot.
Even if his contribution isn't the primary determinant of their good shooting nights, obviously -because we know about Danny/Marco's icy-hot streaks- you can't say his absence has nothing to do with the low percentage or doesn't impact their shots.

Kawhi isn't Michael Jordan. "Kawhi Leonard, who are you man?" "Kawhi Leonard"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bp0l6dEIgAAqBWx.jpg

HI-FI

01-05-2015, 01:43 AM

I'm surprised more people aren't cliff jumping over this. It's bad, bad news. Seems like we always get fucked during repeat years
I agree with this. Kawhi has given all Spursfan hope since his rookie season. Personally I'm not a huge cliff diver, also winning 5 has given me some peace towards the team, so that could be why others also aren't freaking out. It is definetly worrying, though Mel_13's post is at least good news.

if this injury happened last year, this thread would be 30+ pages already. As of now, just have to hope for the best.

Sean Cagney

01-05-2015, 02:03 AM

I agree with this. Kawhi has given all Spursfan hope since his rookie season. Personally I'm not a huge cliff diver, also winning 5 has given me some peace towards the team, so that could be why others also aren't freaking out. It is definetly worrying, though Mel_13's post is at least good news.

if this injury happened last year, this thread would be 30+ pages already. As of now, just have to hope for the best.
If this happened last year after 6 it would just be too cruel to Spurs fans, damn I am glad it did not. I wish him well and hope he can play again this year but as you said 5 gave alot like me Peace towards the team and I am alot more relaxed now. I am not freaking out because I expect him out long term at this point to be honest, that way I am not shocked if they come out and say he is out for months or needs surgery.

-21-

01-05-2015, 02:10 AM

Most fans still think Manu and Parker are more valuable.

Top 2? He's the most valuable..

Again, most fans are big 3 mainstream fans anyway..They wouldn't know how important it is.

Would you just STFU. Everyone knows how valuable Leonard is to the team, even the Ginobili and Parker fans. Without him the Spurs would not have 5 and if he is out for the season, then the Spurs will certainly not repeat. Just because some of the people here are not as big Kawhi fans as you are doesn't mean they don't know what he does for this team. Your problem is you want Kawhi to be everyone's favorite player.

Nathan89

01-05-2015, 03:31 AM

No, because it means we win more games when he plays than when he doesn't. Winning games is good. It's not complicated.

Who said otherwise?

TheGreatYacht

01-05-2015, 06:01 AM

Would you just STFU. Everyone knows how valuable Leonard is to the team, even the Ginobili and Parker fans. Without him the Spurs would not have 5 and if he is out for the season, then the Spurs will certainly not repeat. Just because some of the people here are not as big Kawhi fans as you are doesn't mean they don't know what he does for this team. Your problem is you want Kawhi to be everyone's favorite player.
... :lol RIP Apolisoc

DMC

01-05-2015, 08:37 AM

Of course, everybody is wrong except you.

Your example failed again.
Like when you said "there's just no one to guard the paint when Tim is out". While Kawhi is usually assigned to guard the opponent's best perimeter player, Tim rarely defend the opposing top bigman offensive threat -who is Tiago's assignment-.

About the 3's...This season Leonard does a great job of recognizing the double team in the post and passing to the open man creating the opportunities for the Spurs three-point shooters to take a wide open shot.
Even if his contribution isn't the primary determinant of their good shooting nights, obviously -because we know about Danny/Marco's icy-hot streaks- you can't say his absence has nothing to do with the low percentage or doesn't impact their shots.

Kawhi isn't Michael Jordan. "Kawhi Leonard, who are you man?" "Kawhi Leonard"
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bp0l6dEIgAAqBWx.jpg

You're another player groupie. There's no point in arguing with you since you're either A) trolling or B) biased. A few of you here are only interested in worshiping certain guys. That's not my thing. Because of that, you guys don't even really talk basketball, you just look for confirmation to support your god belief.

Cowboys_Wear_Spurs

01-05-2015, 09:27 AM

Its a tear, it takes time to fully heal.

I don't think its bad as Pop is letting on. Like I mentioned before, Kawhi almost had a 5 by 5 while playing with the injury.

We all know, the Spurs aren't winning the Finals without Kawhi fully healthy. Spurs are just being cautious. I think he could play right now, but Pop wants to make sure he is 100% before playing him.

The only team that a healthy Spurs roster couldn't beat without HC is the Thunder imo. So as long as the Spurs remain ahead of them in the standings, that is all that matters.

hater

01-05-2015, 10:16 AM

1) we can't win without TP
2) we can't win without Kawhi
3) we can't win without 15mpg Evita
4) we can't win with 25+mpg Evita

these are all things we agree on. let's move on....

Yuixafun

01-05-2015, 11:52 AM

100%duncan

01-05-2015, 12:00 PM

100%duncan

01-05-2015, 12:03 PM

It really feels to me like, Pop is just juggling guys, yes they probably do have injuries, but if they had to they could play...

He's taken resting players to a new level, while at the same time to continue developing others.

The Wiz game towards the end was when, we caught a glimpse of the TEAM that won the finals last year, with the High percentages and shot making... and without our Finals MVP and our Big 2 playing crummy, AND Parker out...

Against a Solid Playoff Wiz team, hungry to prove their legitimacy. And Wall is top 5-10 PG, they have a pretty sick line up on paper, skilled bigs, Cagey Veteran faded Star in Paul Pierce

He doesn't need to rest a 23 year old star. He has said it that they haven't dealt with this injury before. Tbh, his descriptions were scary, iirc he said that the hand couldn't do the things that a normal basketball player should do, etc2. We don't even know if it's just pure pain or something went completely immovable temporarily, I'm no expert but just from reading Pop's comments on this one is alarming enough. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if he gets shut down for the season.

EVAY

01-05-2015, 12:14 PM

1) we can't win without TP
2) we can't win without Kawhi
3) we can't win without 15mpg Evita
4) we can't win with 25+mpg Evita

these are all things we agree on. let's move on....

Well said.

Budkin

01-05-2015, 12:18 PM

Got this off the Austin Spurs FB group:

Here's some good news from today's San Antonio Express-News and a quote from Danny Green:
“I talked to Kawhi,” Green said. “He seems like he’s in better spirits because he said he got some good news. I don’t think he has to get surgery. I think he might be back sooner than (the media) or Pop expects. He’s a tough kid.”

spurs10

01-05-2015, 01:08 PM

Also, Pop is quoted in Michael Erler's article about TP and Kawhi's injuries at Pounding The Rock that surgery is not imminent in the off season. I'm not sure why this wasn't mentioned in the Express-News article.

look_at_g_shred

01-05-2015, 01:36 PM

Got this off the Austin Spurs FB group:
What day was this from?

Ice009

01-05-2015, 02:07 PM

Got this off the Austin Spurs FB group:

That sounds very good. When is that from?

Budkin

01-05-2015, 02:46 PM

What day was this from?

That sounds very good. When is that from?

It was posted this morning on the group so I'd guess from today or yesterday. Not totally sure though.

KL2

01-05-2015, 03:17 PM

Hopefully his hand gets better soon, Spurs look like shit without him, MVP.

Chomag

01-05-2015, 03:36 PM

Hopefully thats true and thats good news but We know Pop wont play him even if KL thinks he is ready to go until Pop thinks he is ready to go :lol

GrandeDavid

01-05-2015, 07:11 PM

This just in: Kawhi's hand fell off.

spurs10

01-05-2015, 09:21 PM

It went from a bruise, to a slight tear, to a full tear, to ebola. :cry Sounds like he just needs time for the tear to heal enough for him to play, which I'm guessing is 3-4 weeks. If he needed surgery, he would have had it already. Damn you odd injuries! Only thing I question is the MRI he initially had on it, cause the prognosis has only gotten worse since then. I haven't seen anywhere where Pop or anyone with the team has called it a tear. I did read that Pop said he won't require surgery now or later. Has a tear been confirmed or is it just speculative?

SupremeGuy

01-05-2015, 09:31 PM

I haven't seen anywhere where Pop or anyone with the team has called it a tear. I did read that Pop said he won't require surgery now or later. Has a tear been confirmed or is it just speculative?They didn't say it was ebola, either. Maybe that's the point you should have realized that I was mocking the progression of his injury through medical reports released by the team.

loveforthegame

01-05-2015, 10:05 PM

This just in: Kawhi's hand fell off.

That's probably the next report we get tomorrow or next week.

spurspokesman

01-05-2015, 10:34 PM

I just watch whoever suits up since thats a mystery from game to game now

Ice009

01-05-2015, 11:18 PM

This is some much better news/info.

As for Kawhi himself, I'm sure he'll try playing if it's his choice. He's a tough guy. He won't sit out the rest of the season unless he's told something like playing could make it worse and stuff his hand up completely. He's definitely going to try and play IMO.

spurs10

01-05-2015, 11:42 PM

They didn't say it was ebola, either. Maybe that's the point you should have realized that I was mocking the progression of his injury through medical reports released by the team. That's my question, what 'progression of injury reports released by the team?' Haven't they been steadfast in calling it a "bruised" hand. I obviously got you were mocking the various escalating reports, I'm just wondering where they are coming from. Several people have said "tear" and I want to know where this came from. I'm asking because tears don't generally improve, at least not things like your meniscus. Not sure about torn ligaments in the hand.

gilmor2002

01-05-2015, 11:54 PM

Well said.

We can't win without Pop and Duncan

Juggity

01-06-2015, 01:22 AM

Seems like good news.

552348916776443904

ace3g

01-06-2015, 01:22 AM

Sources: Kawhi Leonard expected to return in two weeks for Spurs http://l.yimg.com/os/388/2012/05/30/01-expert-feat-posts-70x70-png_005116.png (http://sports.yahoo.com/author/adrian-wojnarowski/) By Adrian Wojnarowski (http://sports.yahoo.com/author/adrian-wojnarowski/)

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--kawhi-leonard-expected-to-return-in-two-weeks-for-spurs-061709632.html

Sean Cagney

01-06-2015, 02:17 AM

This is great news but how effective will he be? Is the hand really almost healed or do they just want him back to see? I hope he is fine when he returns.

Ice009

01-06-2015, 02:19 AM

That's my question, what 'progression of injury reports released by the team?' Haven't they been steadfast in calling it a "bruised" hand. I obviously got you were mocking the various escalating reports, I'm just wondering where they are coming from. Several people have said "tear" and I want to know where this came from. I'm asking because tears don't generally improve, at least not things like your meniscus. Not sure about torn ligaments in the hand.

It seems like it is a torn ligament according to the Wojnarowski article below. Do most tears usually need surgery, anyone know? Can some heal OK without it?

Sources: Kawhi Leonard expected to return in two weeks for Spurs http://l.yimg.com/os/388/2012/05/30/01-expert-feat-posts-70x70-png_005116.png (http://sports.yahoo.com/author/adrian-wojnarowski/) By Adrian Wojnarowski (http://sports.yahoo.com/author/adrian-wojnarowski/)

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources--kawhi-leonard-expected-to-return-in-two-weeks-for-spurs-061709632.html

Thanks for posting it.

Seems like good news.

552348916776443904

Thanks.

This is great news but how effective will he be? Is the hand really almost healed or do they just want him back to see? I hope he is fine when he returns.

Good question. Hopefully it's not just to see how he goes.

Legacy

01-06-2015, 03:27 AM

spurs10

01-06-2015, 03:39 AM

Thanks Ice! I needed surgery for a torn meniscus, but I don't know about hands. Obviously if he is possibly returning in a couple weeks then he is improving. Great news!

wildchild

01-06-2015, 10:52 AM

You're another player groupie.
I'm a Kawhi groupie? I have only one account on ST, I registered in 2007, four season before Spurs drafted him. Certainly I'm not here for him.

I read more than post, because I'm a quiet guy and don't have much to say, don't need to receive validation from other people about what I think, or seek attention.
But when a guy with egomaniacal posts like you underestimate a player like Leonard...well, that get me out of my poster lethargy.

There's no point in arguing with you since you're either A) trolling
You called me idiot and retard...but I'm trolling you?

It's not about moral superiority or anything like this, but I never use pejorative words or use words in an appropriate way to refer to other guys in all these years here.

or B) biased. A few of you here are only interested in worshiping certain guys. That's not my thing. Because of that, you guys don't even really talk basketball,

Biased? I posted neutral media articles, revelant numbers, about circumstances of the game, the effects on defense and offense.
Yeah...I didn't talk basketball.

I wasn't wrong after all

You're another player groupie.

If you challenge them to get out of their "only Big 3 matter" "Leonard is just a role player" comfort zone, then they'll say that you're a X player's fan, it's a commonplace.

wildchild

01-06-2015, 10:55 AM

Everyone knows how valuable Leonard is to the team, even the Ginobili and Parker fans.
Everyone?

Without him the Spurs would not have 5

Don't overhype Kawhi's role by calling him the FMVP

Kawhi did his thing, but his performance wasn't Earth shattering.

and if he is out for the season, then the Spurs will certainly not repeat.

Kawhi being out isn't the issue

Spurs aren't repeating with Kawhi.

doesn't mean they don't know what he does for this team.
The good thing is that -apparently- you don't read TGY, hater, DMC, and a lot of guys like them...

DMC

01-06-2015, 11:35 AM

I'm a Kawhi groupie? I have only one account on ST, I registered in 2007, four season before Spurs drafted him. Certainly I'm not here for him.

I read more than post, because I'm a quiet guy and don't have much to say, don't need to receive validation from other people about what I think, or seek attention.
But when a guy with egomaniacal posts like you underestimate a player like Leonard...well, that get me out of my poster lethargy.

You called me idiot and retard...but I'm trolling you?

It's not about moral superiority or anything like this, but I never use pejorative words or use words in an appropriate way to refer to other guys in all these years here.

Biased? I posted neutral media articles, revelant numbers, about circumstances of the game, the effects on defense and offense.
Yeah...I didn't talk basketball.

I wasn't wrong after all

Who are you kidding? Anyone who cares to take the time can just view your posts. Every other response is about Kawhi. You seek out Kawhi discussion. You're doing it now. You're right though, you don't post much which means you don't discuss basketball much here. You seem personally invested in Kawhi's rep.

wildchild

01-06-2015, 12:06 PM

Who are you kidding? Anyone who cares to take the time can just view your posts. Every other response is about Kawhi. You seek out Kawhi discussion. You're doing it now. You're right though, you don't post much which means you don't discuss basketball much here. You seem personally invested in Kawhi's rep.

My last posts are all about Kawhi because of you and this thread.
I don't like how you and other guys disrespect Leonard. But even if I don't want that you read my last posts about Spurs rebuilding, Marco, Danny, Boris...you can't act like those posts didn't exist.

Just for the record...
Yesterday
Despite the sarcasm, that's not the obvious way, it's possible to avoid the tank process and still build a contender.
Maybe the Rockets aren't the typical example, but after T-Mac/Yao era they didn't draft in the top 10 last six years and never finished below 9th seed.

Even with the new TV deal, I'm not sure after Tony's contract if the Spurs are in a position to make a big move in future years, 2016 or 2017. But at least next summer if Aldridge, Gasol or big star free agent like them aren't willing to play in San Antonio, the Spurs can still lure mid talent to keep a competitive team.
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242940&page=2

Dre_7

01-06-2015, 12:43 PM

Still don't get the Kawhi hate on here???

But then again it is ST. I never got the Manu or Tony hate on here either.

DMC

01-06-2015, 07:51 PM

DMC

01-06-2015, 07:52 PM

My last posts are all about Kawhi because of you and this thread.
I don't like how you and other guys disrespect Leonard. But even if I don't want that you read my last posts about Spurs rebuilding, Marco, Danny, Boris...you can't act like those posts didn't exist.

Just for the record...
Yesterday
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=242940&page=2

Like I said, anyone who cares to look at your posts this season would see you're more interested in KL than about basketball in general.

wildchild

01-06-2015, 08:17 PM

Still don't get the Kawhi hate on here???

But then again it is ST. I never got the Manu or Tony hate on here either.

Well, other guys call these things rational assessmetns...

Kawhi is a soft chinadoll...6 month recovery time for an eye infection...max player...

What kind of eye infection lasts months like that? Nigga musta gotten herpes...

FkLA

01-06-2015, 08:31 PM

Well, other guys call these things rational assessmetns...

Those are just Enrique fanboys that resorted to that when their boy got called out for missing a month with a day-to-day injury. Obviously Kawhi's injury is legit and a tad bit more serious than Enrique's mild asscheek strain tbh.

wildchild

01-06-2015, 08:37 PM

Like I said, anyone who cares to look at your posts this season would see you're more interested in KL than about basketball in general.

I don't trust in your interpretation of posts on ST.

Dre_7

01-06-2015, 10:08 PM

I don't see any hate for Leonard here. I see rational assessments and some player worshiping. So if someone doesn't think KL is the heart and soul of the Spurs, they hate him? You can tell this is "upstairs".

I guess what I mean is that when people talk about how important Kawhi is, others try to make it sound as if he is just a role player and call him a pussy for missing games with an eye infection or talk shit about him for wanting Max money (is if Timmy was ALWAYS taking pay cuts, he did make bank in his younger days iirc). Things of that nature.

I also can't stand how people here feel that because they like a certain Spurs player (whether its Manu, Tony, or Kawhi) they HAVE to bash other players to elevate their favorite player. Makes no sense.