Fastest PG decline?

[ElNono]

- Deron Williams
- Enrique
- Chris Paul
- Rondo

Who had the fastest decline, tbh? All of these guys were considered top 3 PGs at one point or another...

[Beaverfuzz]

Deron Williams. Paul is still good, Rondo was a slower and longer process.

Maybe you should add Jeremy Lin in this conversation.

[ElNono]

Deron Williams. Paul is still good, Rondo was a slower and longer process.

Maybe you should add Jeremy Lin in this conversation.

I don't think Jeremy Lin was ever considered a top 3 PG, tbh... I mean, not for more than 2 weeks anyways...

[ElNono]

And disagree about Paul.... he's nowhere near the player he was in NO...

[sook]

I don't think Jeremy Lin was ever considered a top 3 PG, tbh... I mean, not for more than 2 weeks anyways...

At one point he was a capable 2nd stringer though.

[ElNono]

At one point he was a capable 2nd stringer though.

He's always been a bench guy

[Sean Cagney]

Deron Williams hands down! Tony has not been fully healthy this year so I will give him time but he still can show flashes. Deron just looks flat out DONE from his days in Utah, ever since he left that Sloan system he has gotten out of shape and just flat out sucks most of the time. CP3 is still good most of the time and Parker like I said has been banged up but still good when healthy IMO. Rondo I have not seen enough this year so far so I can't judge, dude is still decent though.
At one point he was a capable 2nd stringer though.

He had that run of games in NY where he got all the hype, signed in Houston and sucked or was decent as a backup so that is all he was/is. He is an okay backup PG, has some good games here and there.

[timtonymanu]

Deron Williams, for sure.

Rondo was never really good, IMO.

[ElNono]

Yeah, thinking it a bit more, not sure Rondo belongs in that list, tbh... other than stat whoring and riding the Boston big 3 to a ring, he's not done much of note...

[sook]

He's always been a bench guy

would not trust as backup PG.

[sook]

Deron Williams hands down! Tony has not been fully healthy this year so I will give him time but he still can show flashes. Deron just looks flat out DONE from his days in Utah, ever since he left that Sloan system he has gotten out of shape and just flat out sucks most of the time. CP3 is still good most of the time and Parker like I said has been banged up but still good when healthy IMO. Rondo I have not seen enough this year so far so I can't judge, dude is still decent though.

He had that run of games in NY where he got all the hype, signed in Houston and sucked or was decent as a backup so that is all he was/is. He is an okay backup PG, has some good games here and there.

well, he's sucking with the lakers as well

[baseline bum]

Steve Francis

[Technique]

http://exnba.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/stephon-marbury.jpg

[Sean Cagney]

well, he's sucking with the lakers as well
He is not even worth being mentioned in this convo nor another post.. The 4 he mentioned cool but Lin was never a top tier PG nor worth even bringing up in falling off because he was never great sides a few games in NY with that run.

[Malik Hairston]

Williams, easily..

For a few seasons, most people(not myself, always on the opposite side here) considered him to be better than Chris Paul, tbh..he declined immediately after leaving Utah, and was given the "coach killer" label, too..

He's the Jay Cutler of the NBA..

[spurraider21]

- Deron Williams
- Enrique
- Chris Paul
- Rondo

Who had the fastest decline, tbh? All of these guys were considered top 3 PGs at one point or another...
Paul obviously is last on that list, he's still playing at a very high level.

Rondo's peak was overrated as it was, so his "decline" is overstated.

It's between D-Will and TP... at least Parker had a buffer season in '13-'14 where he was still a good player. D-Will just completely fell off a cliff

[Robz4000]

The fat PG.

[apalisoc_9]

Williams easily, IMO..Followed by Parker.

Parker was a top 10 player in the league two years ago..Now he's not even top 3 in his own team. :lol

Paul is still playing at a high level but has obviously regressed..

Rondo was never that good to begin with IMO..He's still the same player. He was just a perfect fit for Boston. Soon as the big 3 era was done, he basically done..

[Splits]

Why is fMVParker on this list? Since when is his decline confirmed?

[ElNono]

Why is fMVParker on this list? Since when is his decline confirmed?

what do you mean? :lol

A season and a half not long enough sample for you?

[Splits]

what do you mean? :lol

A season and a half not long enough sample for you?

Definitely not long enough. He was worn out last year ànd injured both last and this year. He's only 32. When he's been on the court, he's still a game changer.

[ElNono]

Definitely not long enough. He was worn out last year ànd injured both last and this year. He's only 32. When he's been on the court, he's still a game changer.

He had the whole summer off... was "hurt" again by December... and he's indeed only 32...

[NASpurs]

Definitely not long enough. He was worn out last year ànd injured both last and this year. He's only 32. When he's been on the court, he's still a game changer.

A game changer for the wrong reasons :lol

[Malik Hairston]

A game changer for the wrong reasons :lol

:lmao ..

[Splits]

A game changer for the wrong reasons :lol

Oh, gee, look at that, Spurs lose 7/9 without Tony then he comes back and they win 2 straight, total coincidence!

[NASpurs]

Oh, gee, look at that, Spurs lose 7/9 without Tony then he comes back and they win 2 straight, total coincidence!

Good job ignoring the Detroit game and :lol thinking Tony had anything to do with these wins. I'm sure it's no coincidence that Patty, CoJo have had to stepped up to carry Enrique's bloated corspe.

[apalisoc_9]

Oh, gee, look at that, Spurs lose 7/9 without Tony then he comes back and they win 2 straight, total coincidence!

Kawhi..

Tony is indeed a game changer.

His second half heroics in the lockeroom helped the spurs win against OKC in game 6.

[Splits]

Good job ignoring the Detroit game and :lol thinking Tony had anything to do with these wins. I'm sure it's no coincidence that Patty, CoJo have had to stepped up to carry Enrique's bloated corspe.

Tony's return has sparked the winning streak, you can't deny it. All of his teammates admit it, just listen to their post game interviews

[Splits]

Kawhi..

Tony is indeed a game changer.

His second half heroics in the lockeroom helped the spurs win against OKC in game 6.

How's Kiwi's vaginas feeling?

[lefty]

How's Kiwi's vaginas feeling?
Like an eye sore

[spurraider21]

Splits not sure if serious

[NASpurs]

Tony's return has sparked the winning streak, you can't deny it. All of his teammates admit it, just listen to their post game interviews

Tbh I haven't been keeping up with post game quotes but I do remember what Timmy had to say about Patty after the Rockets win.
...........
Mills had eight points, all in the final quarter, but his energy was the spark that helped the Spurs snap a two-game skid. The 6-foot guard from Australia even dived on his surgically repaired right shoulder for a loose ball in the first half and played all but 12 seconds in the fourth quarter.

''His energy, just his activity is was contagious,'' San Antonio forward Tim Duncan said. ''It was great for us; brought a huge spark to the team.''

[NASpurs]

Splits not sure if serious

Yeah I got that feeling too. :lol

[Splits]

Like an eye sore

Sorry you let Magic's son put one in your eye. Should have asked Kirby for facial cumshot advice

[lefty]

Sorry you let Magic's son put one in your eye. Should have asked Kirby for facial cumshot advice
http://media.giphy.com/media/jA8TT03Sj2pXO/giphy.gif

[sook]

http://media.giphy.com/media/jA8TT03Sj2pXO/giphy.gif

That's Dale's bitch right there. Careful now.

[sook]

Tony's return has sparked the winning streak, you can't deny it. All of his teammates admit it, just listen to their post game interviews
mah man.

[100%duncan]

Williams.

Rondo was never top 3.

[Jodelo]

Rondo is/was overrated so i say Williams.

[TDMVPDPOY]

how come that deadbeat nash isnt on the list?

[Johnny RIngo]

how come that deadbeat nash isnt on the list?

Nash is old as fuck. Doesn't qualify for this thread.

[MultiTroll]

Williams. Tanked after getting the fat contract.
Parker. Enough demonstrated.

Rhondo bashers, anytime you play fulltime and beat a ref rigged Laker team in the Finals, you done well.
To me Rhondo has never been the same since Pussy Wade cheapshoot injured him.
Not saying that is the only reason, am saying it largely contributed.
Lets see what he does not that he is back on a playoff contender.

[mavsfan1000]

They should change his name to Ronno since every time he takes a jumper it is no good. Fuck guards who can't shoot.

[ElNono]

Splits not sure if serious

:lol

[jeebus]

- Deron Williams
- Enrique
- Chris Paul
- Rondo

Who had the fastest decline, tbh? All of these guys were considered top 3 PGs at one point or another...

Butterball has been on the decline since his number was retired in the Ottoman Empire; his shit fell so fast.

Enrique's decline has been slower but it could hasten; depends on how this year turns out. He's also got 4 rings and a new contract, why should he push himself?

Chris Fall is still doing work, but he's 29 and he's not as fast as he used to be. Also, det back of his hasn't acted up in a while; he's due an injury.

I Can't Shoot got his :lobt:. He's in full Lecramp mode now, trying to ride coattails to another one.

So, in order from slowest to fastest, it's

Fall
Enrique
I Can't Shoot
Butterball

[DMC]

Can't be Parker, dude has 4 rings in 5 tries. He's relatively "young" but it's been 6 years since he won FMVP.

[DMC]

Butterball has been on the decline since his number was retired in the Ottoman Empire; his shit fell so fast.

Enrique's decline has been slower but it could hasten; depends on how this year turns out. He's also got 4 rings and a new contract, why should he push himself?

Chris Fall is still doing work, but he's 29 and he's not as fast as he used to be. Also, det back of his hasn't acted up in a while; he's due an injury.

I Can't Shoot got his :lobt:. He's in full Lecramp mode now, trying to ride coattails to another one.

So, in order from slowest to fastest, it's

Fall
Enrique
I Can't Shoot
Butterball

His fake back injury will occur when the playoffs arrive, so he can either be a hero or have an out.

[Double-Up]

Steve Francis

[djohn2oo8]

Steve Francis

http://cdn.hiphopwired.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/fran5.jpg

[ambchang]

Deron Williams without question.

As for ever, it's gotta be magic. MVP candidate and leading the lakers to the finals in 91. Out of the league in 92.

[Beaverfuzz]

I don't think Jeremy Lin was ever considered a top 3 PG, tbh... I mean, not for more than 2 weeks anyways...

His agent disagrees with you. Smartest man in the business.

As for Paul, he doesn't have to be the man like he was in NO.

[Mr Bones]

Tony is already showing signs of shooting more threes per minute, which I think makes sense for a guy that was once one of the fastest PGs in the league, but also a PG with a shaky jump shot. Now he's a step slower and a very reliable shooter, this being his third year in a row with career highs in FT% and three straight years of good 3pt percentages above his career average.

[KL2]

D-Will, followed by TP.

Parker's offense has fallen off, but his defense even more. Statistically he's something like the 10th worst defender in the entire league, which is even more concerning because if you think about it they usually hide him while Leonard/Green guard opposing PG's. Even when Parker does score it can come at the expense of his teammates, and when he's not he's giving up points lol...

[Franklin]

rondo just needs time to adapt to the new system imho. He had played on a shitty team for quite a while previously so it definitely takes some time before he switches back to winning mode.

[Leetonidas]

Derrick Rose comes to mind immediately when I think of fastest PG decline imho

[ElNono]

Didn't include Rose originally because dude had a legitimate tough injury, and clearly has had a mental problem with it ever since...

[mavsfan1000]

Dallas is not a good team to pad your stats unfortunately. Rondo is like Nash without the shooting.

[024]

Deron Williams was the biggest drop I've seen. Went from perennial all star and MVP candidate to getting demoted to the bench by Jarrett Jack.

[Perry Mason]

How can a player in his 14th(?) NBA season be on a fast decline?

Parker's "decline" is evidenced by a whopping 20 or so games this season. Spurstalk posters are prematurely ejaculating on this (no surprise). As Splits said, last season was marred by fatigue and injuries. TP still had well above average stats, like a 19 PER. Compare his 2014 stats to the 2009 season and you'll see similar results.

I'm sure Parker is losing a step, of course, since these kinds of easy injuries are evidence of that. But Gino found a way to recover and stay very productive as his body declined since 2009. I think Tony will do the same.

Paul is younger, but he has very obviously lost a step at 29. Whereas TP at 29 was gaining steps and making an argument for himself as the best PG in the league.

[ElNono]

^ Parker peak season was 2012-2013... "MVP conversation" Parker...

The dropoff to 2013-2014 Parker was tremendous, even if above average, no longer dominant. The claim was fatigue and injuries, but he did get a week off during the regular season, and he still got hurt again during the playoffs (where he posted his career worst on-off numbers on a championship run). This season brings into question if it was just fatigue, or he simply lost a step or two: he refused to play for France, had the entire summer off, he got hurt again, and he's nowhere near the speedy PG he was a mere season and a half ago.

There's nothing wrong with declining and losing a step, it shouldn't be taken as a slight, it happens to every player, especially guys like Tony who has such high mileage. It's actually much more natural for a guy like him to have that happen than Deron Williams or Rose, who really are nowhere near in minutes played. It's undeniable though that from his peak to his current form was a pretty fast route.

[ViceCity86]

Deron Williams without question.
Chris Paul was scary in NO days.He was awfully good in 2008 da real MVP.Spurs seem helpless stopping him in playoffs,that Pop just took Bowen off him and sic him on Peja and strategy worked.

What both have in common is that age,miles and a bad diet and do a lot of harm.

Historically Isaih Thomas fell off the map after 2nd championship and finals mvp.

[ViceCity86]

I never found Rondo to be all that great.

Parker still has one more gear in him.

[Brazil]

On a side note, Parker is the oldest of this list and it's not even close... he survived a lot of younger PGs who declined before him

At this point I'm not sure we can talk about decline for Williams... he just fell off totally after the trade. Cannot be just a decline, he had the perfect team and coach in Utah and has been exposed.

CP3 lost a step clearly following injury, he never came back as the player he was before but even a "lower" CP3 is still the best PG in the league. If only dude was capable to do what spurs fans whine about Parker meaning being aggressive Offensively and shoot the damn ball in POs instead of deferring...

Rondo declined ? I don't see him as declining tbh.. He has his flaws obviously but he receives too much shit from ST imo. He is a solid PG who, contrary to CP3, step up in POs and takes his responsabilities. Yeah he stats pad in RS, he is perceived as a locker room cancer but he had some solid POs run like in 09-10

On Parker we can agree 12-13 was his peak season, in 13-14 he had an ok RS and in POs he has been key against Mavs the toughest serie the Spurs played and overall meh POs but not the disaster one could imagine reading ST. I was on the after a summer of rest he will come back strong bandwagon, so far he has been horrible but he has still time to turn the clock.

[ElNono]

On a side note, Parker is the oldest of this list and it's not even close... he survived a lot of younger PGs who declined before him

At this point I'm not sure we can talk about decline for Williams... he just fell off totally after the trade. Cannot be just a decline, he had the perfect team and coach in Utah and has been exposed.

CP3 lost a step clearly following injury, he never came back as the player he was before but even a "lower" CP3 is still the best PG in the league. If only dude was capable to do what spurs fans whine about Parker meaning being aggressive Offensively and shoot the damn ball in POs instead of deferring...

Rondo declined ? I don't see him as declining tbh.. He has his flaws obviously but he receives too much shit from ST imo. He is a solid PG who, contrary to CP3, step up in POs and takes his responsabilities. Yeah he stats pad in RS, he is perceived as a locker room cancer but he had some solid POs run like in 09-10

The biggest indictment on DWill is that it didn't seem physically related. He just got fat and happy to be a loser.


On Parker we can agree 12-13 was his peak season, in 13-14 he had an ok RS and in POs he has been key against Mavs the toughest serie the Spurs played and overall meh POs but not the disaster one could imagine reading ST. I was on the after a summer of rest he will come back strong bandwagon, so far he has been horrible but he has still time to turn the clock.

Key in the Mavs series? He posted a below average PER for the series while being torched by Jose Calderon and Devin Harris, two PGs that couldn't shoot until Tony was in front of them. His only great game that series was game 7, and turns out both Tim and Manu happened to have a great game too. If not for Tiago and Manu, we don't move on. He was much more instrumental against Portland (vs Lollard, a complicated PG to stay in front of), OKC in the blowouts and he did a good job hiding on Chalmers in the Finals, IMO.

I'm with you though, I still think he can only go up this season, barring any more injuries, but I think the 12-13 Parker is long gone. Which is unfortunate, but realistically he got here because he's physically limited. He can still be useful for the Spurs though, because he commands attention.

[Brazil]

The biggest indictment on DWill is that it didn't seem physically related. He just got fat and happy to be a loser.

It's kinda my point... not sure we can talk about decline... I see decline as age / injury derailing a career rather than dude was stat padding within a system and became fat because he does not give a shit anymore.


Key in the Mavs series? He posted a below average PER for the series while being torched by Jose Calderon and Devin Harris, two PGs that couldn't shoot until Tony was in front of them. His only great game that series was game 7, and turns out both Tim and Manu happened to have a great game too. If not for Tiago and Manu, we don't move on. He was much more instrumental against Portland (vs Lollard, a complicated PG to stay in front of), OKC in the blowouts and he did a good job hiding on Chalmers in the Finals, IMO.

I'm with you though, I still think he can only go up this season, barring any more injuries, but I think the 12-13 Parker is long gone. Which is unfortunate, but realistically he got here because he's physically limited. He can still be useful for the Spurs though, because he commands attention.

I, respectfully disagree on the mavs. During this serie he has been up and down like the entire POs but he has been absolutely decisive in games 1 and 7 (he has ridiculous advanced stat now that we cannot speak bb without that), he was more than solid game 5. We did not lose the close game 3 because of him despite some silly turnovers (shhhh...). Game 4 he was bad and the rest below meh. Of course Manu and Tiago have been great but same can be said about Parker, if not for him we don't move on.

Portland was a totally lopsided serie we win this serie with George Hill playing all Parker and Gino minutes... but he contributed to make it easy.

On OKC I don't disagree with you. On the Heat, people should decide whether they prefer Parker recognizing it is not his serie and let the other take over or forcing the issue... for me he played the serie needed him to play drawing still attention on the O end, so in my book it's a good serie for him.

I think 12-13 is gone too but I do think he will play at a high level anytime soon... at least this is what we can hope considering his contract.

[Cry Havoc]

Surprised the entire 1st page didn't mention Stevie Franchise. Dude went from top 3 in the game to not even in the league.

[ElNono]

It's kinda my point... not sure we can talk about decline... I see decline as age / injury derailing a career rather than dude was stat padding within a system and became fat because he does not give a shit anymore.

Yeah, that's why it's difficult to put Rose in this same convo, IMO, torn knee ligaments are near career-enders...


I, respectfully disagree on the mavs. During this serie he has been up and down like the entire POs but he has been absolutely decisive in games 1 and 7 (he has ridiculous advanced stat now that we cannot speak bb without that), he was more than solid game 5. We did not lose the close game 3 because of him despite some silly turnovers (shhhh...). Game 4 he was bad and the rest below meh. Of course Manu and Tiago have been great but same can be said about Parker, if not for him we don't move on.

Portland was a totally lopsided serie we win this serie with George Hill playing all Parker and Gino minutes... but he contributed to make it easy.

On OKC I don't disagree with you. On the Heat, people should decide whether they prefer Parker recognizing it is not his serie and let the other take over or forcing the issue... for me he played the serie needed him to play drawing still attention on the O end, so in my book it's a good serie for him.

I think 12-13 is gone too but I do think he will play at a high level anytime soon... at least this is what we can hope considering his contract.

I re-watched Games 3, 4 & 5 of the Finals the last couple days, if we can get him at least at that level, I think we'll be ok. He's just not going to have the impact he used to have, and that's something he's going to have to figure out, but I think the team doesn't need much more than that from him. Obviously, everybody else needs to be healthy, rested and clicking.

[Brazil]

I re-watched Games 3, 4 & 5 of the Finals the last couple days, if we can get him at least at that level, I think we'll be ok. He's just not going to have the impact he used to have, and that's something he's going to have to figure out, but I think the team doesn't need much more than that from him. Obviously, everybody else needs to be healthy, rested and clicking.

I think people are burying him too quickly imo... he was buried already before... it's not like this is the first Parker is done thread. As a fan of Manu you should know better. Let's see if he can adapt and get back doin business soon, if not it has been a pretty solid ride.

Both Frenchies will enter soon in their 33rd year I hope they both can give a, at least, last good POs run to the Spurs.

[ElNono]

I think people are burying him too quickly imo... he was buried already before... it's not like this is the first Parker is done thread. As a fan of Manu you should know better. Let's see if he can adapt and get back doin business soon, if not it has been a pretty solid ride.

Both Frenchies will enter soon in their 33rd year I hope they both can give a, at least, last good POs run to the Spurs.

He never looked this slow, tbh... Manu changed his game, but he was always a great passer, so you knew what that "change" would look like once he lost a step.

With Tony, it's difficult to know... I guess he'll turn into a jump shooter... if he can knock em down at a good rate, I guess it will suffice.

[Brazil]

He never looked this slow, tbh... Manu changed his game, but he was always a great passer, so you knew what that "change" would look like once he lost a step.

With Tony, it's difficult to know... I guess he'll turn into a jump shooter... if he can knock em down at a good rate, I guess it will suffice.

of course we saw him this slow... I don't need to bump the threads about what ails tony parker, parker is done, parker lost his speed etc... he is 32 he won't be as fast as he was but saying he lost his speed and won't be able to go to the rim anymore is premature... also don't need to act like he is not capable to run an offense or he is not capable to be a great passer... he has his flaws like in transition and do less amazing between the legs stuff does not mean he cannot distribute properly the ball

[Brazil]

time will tell anyway

if he is done, he is done... c'est la vie

[mavsfan1000]

Surprised the entire 1st page didn't mention Stevie Franchise. Dude went from top 3 in the game to not even in the league.
He never was top 3. Only in his dreams.

[Cry Havoc]

He never was top 3. Only in his dreams.

Hmm, maybe, but he was definitely up there. 20/6/6 Point guards are pretty fucking rare.