Would you be happy with this lineup opening day next year

[Cklbmk]

Parker/Mills/draft pick
Green/Bertans/Anderson
Leonard/Anderson/Diaw
Duncan/Diaw/Jamychal Green
Gasol/Duncan/Baynes

Throw in another draft pick and a min signing and it could be legit

[ElNono]

Parker/Mills/draft pick
Green/Bertans/Anderson
Leonard/Anderson/Diaw
Duncan/Diaw/Jamychal Green
Gasol/Duncan/Baynes

Throw in another draft pick and a min signing and it could be legit

If Timmy is coming back, there's a high likelihood Gino does too... Also, Splitter is under contract...

[Cklbmk]

If Timmy is coming back, there's a high likelihood Gino does too... Also, Splitter is under contract...


Assumption is we give him away to make space for Gasol

[Hemotivo]

Kyle Anderson/Tony
Green/Manu
Bertans/Leonard
Ayres/Diaw/Bonner
Baynes/Splitter/Duncan

[ElNono]

Assumption is we give him away to make space for Gasol

what do you mean "give him away"? You can't just erase $9m... he would need to be part of a S&T for Gasol (if that's even possible) which is unlikely...

[Hemotivo]

Assumption is we give him away to make space for Gasol

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/mind_blown.gif

[hater]

:lol nobody is trading for the old Argentine heroballer

Evita is retiring. So is Duncan. repeat or not.

next years starting lineup:
MVParker
Green
kwahi
Ayres
Splitter

[Diego20]

:lol nobody is trading for the old Argentine heroballer

Evita is retiring. So is Duncan. repeat or not.

next years starting lineup:
MVParker
Green
kwahi
Ayres
Splitter


Oh boy, now the heroballer is Manu? :lmao

[james evans]

timmy and ginobli need to retire after this year. With every team in the league copying the spurs resting procedures, I have a feeling Adam Silver will make a new rule in the off season about it. I've never saw the spurs live when they come here cuz it's an easy game to win and I fear duncan isn't gonna play. It pisses the fans off that pay to see their favorite players, but i understand why popovich does it. Now that it is spreading through the league, rules will be made to stop it

[benstanfield]

How many PFs are there in the league that Kawhi legitimately couldn't guard tbh? He weighs more than Draymond Green per Google.

Parker/Mills
Afflalo/ (???)
Green/Bertans/KA/LJC
Leonard/Boris/Jamychal Green
Splitter/Baynes

[benstanfield]

(Gasol is staying put)

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol nobody is trading for the old Argentine heroballer

Evita is retiring. So is Duncan. repeat or not.

next years starting lineup:
MVParker
Green
kwahi
Ayres
Splitter

[BatManu20]

Gasol's not coming here.
We're matching any reasonable offer to Cojo.
Duncan is likely retiring regardless of outcome.
So is Manu.
Unless someone slips, we're likely drafting a young European prospect.
The Spurs will be lucky to make the 7th seed in the West next year.

[Sean Cagney]

Gasol's not coming here.

This about sums up the thread for me, that is the truth and people can just dead that thought of Gasol coming here right now because it will not happen.

[Mal]

Bertrans isnt SG :lmao

[Fireball]

"Happy?" .... add the typical look of Coach Pop during between-quarter interviews ...

[BillMc]

Why do so many people assume Duncan is retiring? Where did this info come from?

And I agree Gasol isn't coming.

[exstatic]

Assumption is we give him away to make space for Gasol

If Duncan and Manu come back, there IS no space for Gasol. regardless of what happens to Splitter.

[exstatic]

How many PFs are there in the league that Kawhi legitimately couldn't guard tbh? He weighs more than Draymond Green per Google.

Parker/Mills
Afflalo/ (???)
Green/Bertans/KA/LJC
Leonard/Boris/Jamychal Green
Splitter/Baynes

Most of them. He's only 6'7".

[Cklbmk]

what do you mean "give him away"? You can't just erase $9m... he would need to be part of a S&T for Gasol (if that's even possible) which is unlikely...

A lot of people have cap space and a need for a good contract good defense big. Someone will take him for a 2nd or free.

[Cklbmk]

:lol nobody is trading for the old Argentine heroballer

Evita is retiring. So is Duncan. repeat or not.

next years starting lineup:
MVParker
Green
kwahi
Ayres
Splitter


Clearly no one would trade for him thats why you just renounce him... Duh

[Cklbmk]

If Duncan and Manu come back, there IS no space for Gasol. regardless of what happens to Splitter.

Umm did you even read the post? I'm going with no.

Duncan comes back for room exception. Manu gets buried since hes dead

[Matches Malone]

:lol nobody is trading for the old Argentine heroballer

Evita is retiring. So is Duncan. repeat or not.

next years starting lineup:
MVParker
Green
kwahi
Ayres
Splitter

Any reason why the only player's name not capitalized is Kwahi's?
Did not like it much, but I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt for being sloppy and unconsidered as you usually are.

[ElNono]

A lot of people have cap space and a need for a good contract good defense big. Someone will take him for a 2nd or free.

You can't trade $9m for a "2nd round pick"... A pick is worth somewhere in the $3m region... the Spurs would still need to take in another $6m in contracts.

[ElNono]

Why do so many people assume Duncan is retiring? Where did this info come from?

Nowhere. Looking at how Tim and Manu actually carried us through that tough December, it's clear they have enough for another season, but, it's obviously up to them.

[Chinook]

No.

[Mel_13]

You can't trade $9m for a "2nd round pick"... A pick is worth somewhere in the $3m region... the Spurs would still need to take in another $6m in contracts.

You can trade a 9m contract for a pick. Picks have no dollar value in trades. The Spurs wouldn't have to take anything else back as long as the other team had enough cap space or a large enough trade exception.

All that being said, Gasol isn't leaving Memphis.

[Pocho La Pantera]

Bs post

[hater]

Looking at how Tim and Manu actually carried us through that tough December,

we went on a losing record of 8-10. if that's how they carry us, retirement should be the first thing on their mind come July....

[Cklbmk]

You can't trade $9m for a "2nd round pick"... A pick is worth somewhere in the $3m region... the Spurs would still need to take in another $6m in contracts.

You're acting like Splitter has negative value. He has positive value to a solid 20+ teams

[ElNono]

You can trade a 9m contract for a pick. Picks have no dollar value in trades. The Spurs wouldn't have to take anything else back as long as the other team had enough cap space or a large enough trade exception.

AFAIK, it doesn't work like that. If the Spurs would trade a single player for picks (which you are correct have a $0 salary value), then the Trade Exception would kick in and they would then have one year to acquire the difference in salary.

The $3m value I posted above is what picks normally go for in cash, IIRC.

[ElNono]

we went on a losing record of 8-10. if that's how they carry us, retirement should be the first thing on their mind come July....

They played almost every game, including five back to backs... the question is if they have anything left in the tank, and that stretch certainly showed they do.

This team obviously can't rely just on them, they need all the pieces, but Tim and Gino are certainly still playing at a high level.

[ElNono]

You're acting like Splitter has negative value. He has positive value to a solid 20+ teams

It's called matching salaries, has nothing to do with Splitter's value. Look it up.

[ElNono]

I would actually think the Spurs can do much better than a 2nd round pick for Tiago...

[hater]

They played almost every game, including five back to backs... the question is if they have anything left in the tank, and that stretch certainly showed they do.

This team obviously can't rely just on them, they need all the pieces, but Tim and Gino are certainly still playing at a high level.

not sure if I agree. Sure with plenty of rest and reduced minutes them 2 CAN play at high level. But we are talking about another 82 games in 2015-1016. sorry but from what I've seen this is not doable for them and still benefiting the team.

[ElNono]

not sure if I agree. Sure with plenty of rest and reduced minutes them 2 CAN play at high level. But we are talking about another 82 games in 2015-1016. sorry but from what I've seen this is not doable for them and still benefiting the team.

:lol you don't have to agree. That was the most brutal month in the Duncan era scheduling-wise, fact. They carried this team through that month without Kiwi and Parker for large stretches to a near .500 record, fact.

Sure, they were tired at the end of the whole ordeal, that's expected. They'll get some rest now, but there's obviously a lot left in the tank for both of those guys.

[ElNono]

Obviously, if they feel like walking away, then that's that. Nobody is stopping them.

[watertorture]

Which Gasol?

[hater]

:lol you don't have to agree. That was the most brutal month in the Duncan era scheduling-wise, fact. They carried this team through that month without Kiwi and Parker for large stretches to a near .500 record, fact.

Sure, they were tired at the end of the whole ordeal, that's expected. They'll get some rest now, but there's obviously a lot left in the tank for both of those guys.

disagree. a losing record does not = carrying the team. next year will be even worse. we can't expect to save the 2 spots for these 2 old fellas, Spurs need to move on eventually. As I said I am 98% sure both will retire next year.

[Andthentherewas21]

You're acting like Splitter has negative value. He has positive value to a solid 20+ teams

Let me get this straight, in your scenario you are salary dumping a player that has "positive value" for both the Spurs and most of the league for a 2nd round pick, bringing over a 6'10 forward who has never played in the NBA to play SG, all the while assuming that the cornerstone player of the franchise for the past 16 years is going to decide to comeback for the grind of an 82 game season instead of being with his kids/GF for the smallest exception available. Meanwhile your assuming that the cornerstone of another franchise and a player that literally grew up in memphis, is going to leave just for the hell of it despite the the Griz being able to beat any financial offer the Spurs can muster. On top of that the Spurs are going to allow Cory Joseph, a proven NBA PG, to walk away without getting anything in return so they can draft an unproven rookie (likely in the low to mid-20s in terms of draft position), meanwhile rejecting one of the most beloved players of the franchise over the last decade from returning because he "gets buried since hes dead".

David Khan is that you?

[Mel_13]

AFAIK, it doesn't work like that. If the Spurs would trade a single player for picks (which you are correct have a $0 salary value), then the Trade Exception would kick in and they would then have one year to acquire the difference in salary.

The $3m value I posted above is what picks normally go for in cash, IIRC.

That's exactly how it works. A trade like that would indeed create a trade exception that would be valid for one year from the date of the trade. There is, however, no requirement that any part of the trade exception ever be used.

The dollars paid for a pick do not count towards incoming or outgoing salaries for trade purposes.

[Mel_13]

Let me get this straight, in your scenario you are salary dumping a player that has "positive value" for both the Spurs and most of the league for a 2nd round pick, bringing over a 6'10 forward who has never played in the NBA to play SG, all the while assuming that the cornerstone player of the franchise for the past 16 years is going to decide to comeback for the grind of an 82 game season instead of being with his kids/GF for the smallest exception available. Meanwhile your assuming that the cornerstone of another franchise and a player that literally grew up in memphis, is going to leave just for the hell of it despite the the Griz being able to beat any financial offer the Spurs can muster. On top of that the Spurs are going to allow Cory Joseph, a proven NBA PG, to walk away without getting anything in return so they can draft an unproven rookie (likely in the low to mid-20s in terms of draft position), meanwhile rejecting one of the most beloved players of the franchise over the last decade from returning because he "gets buried since hes dead".

David Khan is that you?

:clap

[ElNono]

disagree. a losing record does not = carrying the team. next year will be even worse. we can't expect to save the 2 spots for these 2 old fellas, Spurs need to move on eventually. As I said I am 98% sure both will retire next year.

The Spurs will move on when those two decide to hang them up. That has always been the case, this isn't really news.

[cjw]

You're acting like Splitter has negative value. He has positive value to a solid 20+ teams

Which teams doesn't he add value for as at the very least the #3 big man? Probably just Chicago - so that's 29 teams

[ElNono]

That's exactly how it works. A trade like that would indeed create a trade exception that would be valid for one year from the date of the trade. There is, however, no requirement that any part of the trade exception ever be used.

The dollars paid for a pick do not count towards incoming or outgoing salaries for trade purposes.

The trade exception does count as salary though, if the trade takes the team under the cap, which defeats the entire premise of salary dumping him.

[Mel_13]

The trade exception does count as salary though, if the trade takes the team under the cap, which defeats the entire premise of salary dumping him.

If the purpose of the salary dump was to create cap space, the trade exception would be renounced.

[ElNono]

If the purpose of the salary dump was to create cap space, the trade exception would be renounced.

Good point. I stand corrected then.

[ElNono]

I still think the Spurs would be better off using Tiago's $9m in a S&T for Gasol if there would actually be any possibility of landing him, which I think there's not.

[Mel_13]

I still think the Spurs would be better off using Tiago's $9m in a S&T for Gasol if there would actually be any possibility of landing him, which I think there's not.

Absolutely agree. The notion of salary dumping Splitter is absurd, as is the notion that Gasol would leave Memphis.

[Cklbmk]

Let me get this straight, in your scenario you are salary dumping a player that has "positive value" for both the Spurs and most of the league for a 2nd round pick, bringing over a 6'10 forward who has never played in the NBA to play SG, all the while assuming that the cornerstone player of the franchise for the past 16 years is going to decide to comeback for the grind of an 82 game season instead of being with his kids/GF for the smallest exception available. Meanwhile your assuming that the cornerstone of another franchise and a player that literally grew up in memphis, is going to leave just for the hell of it despite the the Griz being able to beat any financial offer the Spurs can muster. On top of that the Spurs are going to allow Cory Joseph, a proven NBA PG, to walk away without getting anything in return so they can draft an unproven rookie (likely in the low to mid-20s in terms of draft position), meanwhile rejecting one of the most beloved players of the franchise over the last decade from returning because he "gets buried since hes dead".

David Khan is that you?

If dumping a player with positive value gets a player with a lot more value you do it.

If Manu plays minutes next season we're closer to contending for the number one pick than the finals.

Duncan can take the first half of the season off for all anyone cares.

Joseph is gone regardless. His cap hold is worth more than him. That is unless we don't plan to do anything in free agency other than resign our own players.

We draft for needs. 3rd string PG would be a need.

I'm sorry that you can't comprehend strategy

[Cklbmk]

It's called matching salaries, has nothing to do with Splitter's value. Look it up.

16 teams have enough cap room to simply absorb Splitter. Another 9 are 1 simple move away from having the space.

It's called cap space.

Look it up.

[ElNono]

16 teams have enough cap room to simply absorb Splitter. Another 9 are 1 simple move away from having the space.

It's called cap space.

Look it up.

The Spurs don't need any team to "absorb" Tiago's salary in their capspace. He's a valuable player. This is what apparently is flying above your head.

[EVAY]

Op lists Anderson as a back-up.

This is a serious question. I have begun to wonder about Anderson as a long-term player. He has had some moments, which I fear are attributable to teams not having scouted him seriously because he is a rarely-used rookie.

Once he starts playing regularly, though, I don't see him able to guard perimeter guys because they can blow past him. I don't see him able to dribble penetrate without losing the ball because he 1) dribbles too high and 2) is sooooooo slow.

Both Kawhi and Danny have improved immensely over the last couple of years in being able to dribble and finish. I used to just cringe whenever either of them tried. But I'm not sure Anderson can improve that much because of his speed (or lack of). I think speed is kind of like tall - you can't teach it. And I don't see him getting faster.

I hope I'm wrong. I certainly am thrilled to see how much Green and Leonard have improved their dribbling and finishing, but both of them are fast. Just not sure about Anderson.

[Cklbmk]

The Spurs don't need any team to "absorb" Tiago's salary in their capspace. He's a valuable player. This is what apparently is flying above your head.

Marc Gasol is more valuable. This is apparently flying above yours.

[ElNono]

Marc Gasol is more valuable. This is apparently flying above yours.

If the Spurs feel Marc Gasol is willing to come to the Spurs, they can use Tiago in a S&T. There's no scenario where salary dumping Tiago makes sense for the Spurs to obtain Gasol's services.

Marc Gasol has also unequivocally stated he would like to stay in Memphis when his current deal is done.

[ElNono]

Op lists Anderson as a back-up.

This is a serious question. I have begun to wonder about Anderson as a long-term player. He has had some moments, which I fear are attributable to teams not having scouted him seriously because he is a rarely-used rookie.

Once he starts playing regularly, though, I don't see him able to guard perimeter guys because they can blow past him. I don't see him able to dribble penetrate without losing the ball because he 1) dribbles too high and 2) is sooooooo slow.

Both Kawhi and Danny have improved immensely over the last couple of years in being able to dribble and finish. I used to just cringe whenever either of them tried. But I'm not sure Anderson can improve that much because of his speed (or lack of). I think speed is kind of like tall - you can't teach it. And I don't see him getting faster.

I hope I'm wrong. I certainly am thrilled to see how much Green and Leonard have improved their dribbling and finishing, but both of them are fast. Just not sure about Anderson.

We won't know much about Anderson until his 2nd or 3rd season with the team. It's fairly clear the Spurs are taking their time with him.

[EVAY]

We won't know much about Anderson until his 2nd or 3rd season with the team. It's fairly clear the Spurs are taking their time with him.

Well you are, of course, right about it taking longer to decide for sure. I understand and agree. Certainly the first two years of Cojo did not predict the level of his contribution to most of us (kudos to RobDiaz of course for seeing the talent before many of the rest of us), and I already mentioned the strides that both Leonard and Green have made under the development of the Spurs' coaching staff.

My biggest question was the one I raised, i.e., about his sloooooooow movement, and my concern regarding the extent to which a different 'rate' can be taught. I do not doubt that they will try to teach him the best use of his talents, as they have done with Green and Leonard.

As I said, I hope I am as pleasantly surprised in a couple of years by his contribution as I have been impressed with the progress that both Green and Leonard made over the last few years as Spurs.

[johnpaulwall21]

next years team without Duncan is :vomit:

[benstanfield]

Most of them. He's only 6'7".

Exact same height as Draymond Green, same weight, bigger wingspan and standing reach, about the same vertical, as good if not better rebounder.

[Andthentherewas21]

Eh I've got some time lets take a closer look at what your saying to see if my comprehension really is off.


If dumping a player with positive value gets a player with a lot more value you do it.

Of course you do, but that isn't what your post is saying. If we dump Splitter for peanuts as you propose we get the chance to sign Gasol, however the Spurs don't automatically get Gasol. And given Gasol has no connection to SA, his team is still a contender, he hasn't shown or given any indication he would like to come to SA or leave Memphis, and the fact that it is in his best interest financially to stay...well pretty much every factor would seem to indicate that he isn't coming to SA but rather is staying in Memphis.

But lets say he's a closet Spurs fan and is willing to sign for the Max in the Offseason and move on.


If Manu plays minutes next season we're closer to contending for the number one pick than the finals.

You've gotta let me know your secret for predicting the future because so far this season Ginobili has been a positive by every single statistical measurement. His PER is 16.85 which is above the league average and higher than Parker and Green, he's 10th in the league among all SG in RPM at 2.63 meaning the Spurs are almost 3 point differential better when he is playing. But maybe its not translating into wins....Wait he has a Wins-Above-Replacement value of 2.42 literally meaning that Spurs would lose 2-3 games by replacing him with a replacement level (i.e. bench) player. Oh look, he's also got a Win-Share of 1.9, again literally meaning that the Spurs would have 2 wins less so far in the season without Ginobili.

So somehow Manu playing next year going to cost us wins and make us a lottery team despite there being no evidence to suggest it either in the past or during this current season.


Duncan can take the first half of the season off for all anyone cares.

He could. No reason why he would because he could either play for the Spurs or another team if he wanted more money, or he could retire if he wanted the time off. But if Duncan decides to retire its not going to be because he really wants to play but has too much money so he wants to give the Spurs a discount for a season or two, and there no indication he wants to just chase rings. He's said that he'll play until he can't (wheels falling off) or until he doesn't have a passion for it. Neither of those is saying he'll play for less than the role players. But again, there is nothing in the rules strictly forbidding it, its just a really really really dumb assumption.


Joseph is gone regardless. His cap hold is worth more than him. That is unless we don't plan to do anything in free agency other than resign our own players.

How is a player whom the Spurs can make a restricted free agent gone regardless? That is literally one of the few mechanisms available to NBA teams to KEEP the players they want on their respective teams.

Now you could be right about him not being worth more than his cap-hold and it does tie up capspace until he's re-signed. That could be overcome by A) renouncing him and re-signing him later or B) agreeing to a new contract immediately on the FA period starts, but again it could hamper the Spurs shopping. That being said the need any capspace is tied to the likelihood of signing a superior free agent in this case Gasol, which again is extremely unlikely.


We draft for needs. 3rd string PG would be a need.

Now cklbmk I want you to pay special attention to this next sentence because contained within is a valuable lesson. YOU CREATED THE @#$%ing NEED when you let Joseph walk in FA for nothing to free up capspace. Oh by the way you also created a few more since now the Spurs no longer have a backup SG with Ginobili and Marco gone, and the fact that your listed replacement is a 6'10 forward (they also have to resign Danny Green while extending Kawhi). Luckily the Spurs have depth in the front court since you've replaced Splitter with a D-league player who has yet to get called up to the NBA, although I should mention that I do question the defensive speed of a Duncan/Gasol front court.

Anyways I'm pretty sure I've proven there isn't anything wrong with my comprehension. On a more serious note though, its hard to tell whether this was just a poor troll attempt or the ramblings of a special needs child (read: retarded). In any case, I can't say I would be happy with this lineup opening day next year but I do look forward to your response filled with obscenities and/or gay/racial slurs.

(drops the mic and exits the room)

[Cklbmk]

If the Spurs feel Marc Gasol is willing to come to the Spurs, they can use Tiago in a S&T. There's no scenario where salary dumping Tiago makes sense for the Spurs to obtain Gasol's services.

Marc Gasol has also unequivocally stated he would like to stay in Memphis when his current deal is done.

Wrong. Memphis tries to play hard ball and wont sign and trade. Thus dumping commence

[ElNono]

Wrong. Memphis tries to play hard ball and wont sign and trade. Thus dumping commence

what hard ball? They're gonna max him out.

[Cklbmk]

what hard ball? They're gonna max him out.

Clearly this is under the assumption he doesn't want to stay there.

[ElNono]

Clearly this is under the assumption he doesn't want to stay there.

“I’ve always said Memphis is my home away from home,” Gasol said. “Robert (Pera, Grizzlies owner) knows that. I know that. My teammates know that and that’s all that matters. I live day to day but I don’t see myself anywhere else.”

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/18/marc-gasol-says-he-wants-to-stay-with-grizzlies-when-his-contract-expires-in-2015/

[Mr Bones]

Parker/Mills/Cojo
Green/ Manu/draft pick shooter
Kawhi/Anderson/Mbah a Moute
Duncan/Jerebko/Boris
Splitter/Whiteside/Baynes



I love Gasol, Millsap, & Draymond Green but I don't see them leaving their teams. These 3 FAs would be affordable & plausible.

[Mr Bones]

disagree. a losing record does not = carrying the team. next year will be even worse. we can't expect to save the 2 spots for these 2 old fellas, Spurs need to move on eventually. As I said I am 98% sure both will retire next year.


But you said the same thing last year... before they won the NBA championship.

[Johnny RIngo]

“I’ve always said Memphis is my home away from home,” Gasol said. “Robert (Pera, Grizzlies owner) knows that. I know that. My teammates know that and that’s all that matters. I live day to day but I don’t see myself anywhere else.”

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/06/18/marc-gasol-says-he-wants-to-stay-with-grizzlies-when-his-contract-expires-in-2015/

Yup. He's been in Memphis since he was a teen. Played high school ball there. Pretty much his hometown at this point. No way he's leaving.

[Mr Bones]

he's done

IMHO Duncan needs to be treated like Parish in his last couple of years. A legend that is pretty much done.

IMHO Splitter needs to take all TD's minutes and TD needs to come from the bench. IMHO

at this stage. in my humble opinion Splitter > Duncan.

simples as that

BTW, I'm not saying Duncan is worse than Blair, Bonner.

Our frontline is complete shit. I'm shocked we even compete.

Splitter >> Duncan >>>>> Blair >>>>>>>>> Bonner

damn!

This is the genius of hater.

[Raven]

lol what a dumb thread... timmy is retiring after this year.