Gasol: MVP Consideration?

[midnightpulp]

Even as Rose tries to chuck away a victory, MVPau stays the course and does everything and anything to win the game. He's having an incredible year and deserves at least to be in top 5 in MVP voting.

:worthy: MVPau

[FlAVaK]

559462991750762496

[RsxPiimp]

559462991750762496

Was going to post this. Zach brought a valid point. Offensively Gasol's a beast but his defensive efforts has been non existent (stats back it up) and Bulls fans has been complaining about his tendency to play ISO ball (learned it from Kobe)

[apalisoc_9]

Offensively he is a stud..

Defensively teams should exploit his weaknes in the PnR..One of the worst players i've seen this year with the PnR..

[Infinite_limit]

Top 3 player of the seasons 1st Half

[Franklin]

the bulls system covers us his weakness (defense) very well, imho.

[Killakobe81]

Offensively he is a stud..

Defensively teams should exploit his weaknes in the PnR..One of the worst players i've seen this year with the PnR..

This. Tough to blame him he has lost quite a bit of foot speed ... I think ASG he is very deserving. ALL NBA as well. MVP? No. I think that is a bit much. When the dust settles it's Steph, Lebron, Harden, Pau's brother and Lillard. I don't think any other star has been consistent enough or their team doesn't have a good enough record to be in the convo. Quiet as Kept Ellis in Dallas has had a really good season, to bad Dallas has been treading water since the Rondo trade ...

Anthony davis has been a beast and probably my MVP if only his team had a better record. The MVP usually comes from a team with a top 5 record at least ...

[Jenks]

Was going to post this. Zach brought a valid point. Offensively Gasol's a beast but his defensive efforts has been non existent (stats back it up) and Bulls fans has been complaining about his tendency to play ISO ball (learned it from Kobe)
Out of curiosity, what stats back it up?
He has the best defensive rating on the team
His defensive rating is 3 points better than his defensive specialist backup Gibson
His defensive rating is better than DPOY Noah
He's a terrific help defender/rim protector, 4th in the league in blocks / game.
He's 12th in the league in defensive win shares

His mobility is lacking but he plays alongside Noah/Gibson/Mirotic, very few teams play two mobile bigs that it becomes an issue.

[Killakobe81]

Out of curiosity, what stats back it up?
He has the best defensive rating on the team
His defensive rating is 3 points better than his defensive specialist backup Gibson
His defensive rating is better than DPOY Noah
He's a terrific help defender/rim protector, 4th in the league in blocks / game.
He's 12th in the league in defensive win shares

His mobility is lacking but he plays alongside Noah/Gibson/Mirotic, very few teams play two mobile bigs that it becomes an issue.

Pau is a good rim protector but has lost most of his lateral quickness ...Teams like the Wiz, Cavs Raptors and Hawks can attack him in pnr ...
Pau though has always been sneaky good at the late close-out contest. I have seen him save plenty of games for the Lakers by blocking or contesting a late shot ...even out to the 3pt line.

I miss Pau ...but God bless him.

[Cry Havoc]

Merited at this point.

The biggest hindrance I see to him getting more than a furtive glance is that he's on a team that's been "struggling" in the East.

It's still Harden's to win with Steph right there and Anthony Davis a distant 3rd in my book (no one is appreciating how much of a monster he's been this year).

Take Davis off his team and they'd be worse than the Knicks.

[Killakobe81]

Merited at this point.

The biggest hindrance I see to him getting more than a furtive glance is that he's on a team that's been "struggling" in the East.

It's still Harden's to win with Steph right there and Anthony Davis a distant 3rd in my book (no one is appreciating how much of a monster he's been this year).

Take Davis off his team and they'd be worse than the Knicks.

I agree that Davis has been special but if prior votes are indicative he wont get in the top 3 even though I think he has been the best player game in, game out.

[Killakobe81]

I also dont see how Harden wins Rox have had some struggles too. MVP I get there is no run away favorite but I dont see that.

[Mikeanaro]

Dont forget Tony Parket.

[Darth_Pelican]

If the Pelicans make the playoffs, then Davis is hands down the MVP. He leads the NBA in PER by a wide margin.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics

[djohn2oo8]

I also dont see how Harden wins Rox have had some struggles too. MVP I get there is no run away favorite but I dont see that.

They have had struggles because of injury and McHale being retarded.

[Cry Havoc]

I also dont see how Harden wins Rox have had some struggles too. MVP I get there is no run away favorite but I dont see that.

True, Harden is actually starting to fall back to Earth, but he's still got a lot of inertia because he's been the consensus choice thus far.

LeBron could still make a serious run given how well the Cavs are playing, and Curry has a chance, although if Klay has a few more monster games I could see that working against him.

[Cry Havoc]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/sort/VORPe

Earned wins added actually lines up pretty well with how I see the MVP race thus far, although Pau is farther down than he should be.

[Raven]

This. Tough to blame him he has lost quite a bit of foot speed ... I think ASG he is very deserving. ALL NBA as well. MVP? No. I think that is a bit much. When the dust settles it's Steph, Lebron, Harden, Pau's brother and Lillard. I don't think any other star has been consistent enough or their team doesn't have a good enough record to be in the convo. Quiet as Kept Ellis in Dallas has had a really good season, to bad Dallas has been treading water since the Rondo trade ...

Anthony davis has been a beast and probably my MVP if only his team had a better record. The MVP usually comes from a team with a top 5 record at least ...

talk about getting desperate...

[Cry Havoc]

talk about getting desperate...

Yeah, I don't see Marc in the running for MVP. The Griz are similar to the Spurs in that they need all components working to be a great team. Marc is 13th in PER and 6th in value added. He's also not the only great defender on his team.

[Jenks]

Pau is a good rim protector but has lost most of his lateral quickness ...Teams like the Wiz, Cavs Raptors and Hawks can attack him in pnr ...
Pau though has always been sneaky good at the late close-out contest. I have seen him save plenty of games for the Lakers by blocking or contesting a late shot ...even out to the 3pt line.

I miss Pau ...but God bless him.
What stats show that he is a bad defender? I'm specifically questioning the bold part of what I quoted.

[Killakobe81]

talk about getting desperate...

I dont think those guys should win and obviously the wheels are coming off on the Blazers. My point was that MVP's almost always come from a team with at the very least the 2nd best record in their conference and usually a top 4 record overall. If that holds true Rox need to get as least a top 3 seed in the West for Harden to win it. Does that mean Horford or Milsap deserve consideration? No. But usually the MVP is usually having a career year, team has a great record, some numbers support them as a top player and now some advanced stats probably a huge factor for analytics crowd in the media. I think Davis has been the best two way player Harden the best offensive but I dont think either guys wins unless Rox finish strong.

[Killakobe81]

What stats show that he is a bad defender? I'm specifically questioning the bold part of what I quoted.

I dont know, tbh. Im just telling you what I know from watching him for hundreds of games the past 6 years ...

[Raven]

I dont think those guys should win and obviously the wheels are coming off on the Blazers. My point was that MVP's almost always come from a team with at the very least the 2nd best record in their conference and usually a top 4 record overall. If that holds true Rox need to get as least a top 3 seed in the West for Harden to win it. Does that mean Horford or Milsap deserve consideration? No. But usually the MVP is usually having a career year, team has a great record, some numbers support them as a top player and now some advanced stats probably a huge factor for analytics crowd in the media. I think Davis has been the best two way player Harden the best offensive but I dont think either guys wins unless Rox finish strong.Well loliard isnt even the mvp of his own team and was torched for 55 by kyrie fuckin irving , so that makes 0 sense to me.

[Killakobe81]

Well loliard isnt even the mvp of his own team and was torched for 55 by kyrie fuckin irving , so that makes 0 sense to me.

First op said so far this season and at one point lillard was getting mvp Buzz due to game winners and Blazers record. Mvp voters also love breakout stories. If you don't get why I mentioned lilard don't know what to tell you ...
at season end I expect LeBron Harden and Curry to be at top of the race. Based on what I said before but Harden will have to keep Rox near top of West to win it.

[RsxPiimp]

Out of curiosity, what stats back it up?
He has the best defensive rating on the team
His defensive rating is 3 points better than his defensive specialist backup Gibson
His defensive rating is better than DPOY Noah
He's a terrific help defender/rim protector, 4th in the league in blocks / game.
He's 12th in the league in defensive win shares

His mobility is lacking but he plays alongside Noah/Gibson/Mirotic, very few teams play two mobile bigs that it becomes an issue.

Defensively, Gasol is an absolute trainwreck. Despite his heavy rebound totals, Gasol almost never boxes out anyone. His rebounding totals are primarily the result of his being around the rim for the vast majority of the game and catching whatever misses come off in his immediate vicinity. Pau's gaudy block totals result similarly. Gasol hardly ever leaves the immediate basket area to get out help contain penetration or to properly help rotate. Instead, Gasol hovers near the basket and, due to his height and reach, blocks a few shots here and there at the basket. Sure, there is some value in blocking those shots, but mostly Gasol hurts the defense in the same ways that Carlos Boozer once did (poor rotations, slow feet), without the value that Boozer provided in boxing people out and / or securing defensive rebounds.

Looking at ESPN's Real Plus-Minus tells a similar story. Pau is rated worse than Nikola Mirotic and Taj Gibson & outpaces Joakim Noah only slightly (Pau is +1.04 to Noah's +.69 per 100 possessions), but Noah has been significantly limited by his health all year. The Noah we've seen the last few games as he seems to return to health is a significantly better player than Pau.


http://www.blogabull.com/2015/1/31/7956711/signing-pau-gasol-was-a-mistake

[Jenks]

Defensively, Gasol is an absolute trainwreck. Despite his heavy rebound totals, Gasol almost never boxes out anyone. His rebounding totals are primarily the result of his being around the rim for the vast majority of the game and catching whatever misses come off in his immediate vicinity. Pau's gaudy block totals result similarly. Gasol hardly ever leaves the immediate basket area to get out help contain penetration or to properly help rotate. Instead, Gasol hovers near the basket and, due to his height and reach, blocks a few shots here and there at the basket. Sure, there is some value in blocking those shots, but mostly Gasol hurts the defense in the same ways that Carlos Boozer once did (poor rotations, slow feet), without the value that Boozer provided in boxing people out and / or securing defensive rebounds.

Looking at ESPN's Real Plus-Minus tells a similar story. Pau is rated worse than Nikola Mirotic and Taj Gibson & outpaces Joakim Noah only slightly (Pau is +1.04 to Noah's +.69 per 100 possessions), but Noah has been significantly limited by his health all year. The Noah we've seen the last few games as he seems to return to health is a significantly better player than Pau.


http://www.blogabull.com/2015/1/31/7956711/signing-pau-gasol-was-a-mistakeAccording to real +/- (can we find a more obscure stat?) Pau is still a positive on the defensive end, but Gibson and Noah are negatives on the offensive end. People are seriously reaching, or are just stupid. Not sure which. Bull fans doing whatever they can to not acknowledge the fact that Rose sucks. Here's some real +/- for you, Jeremy Lin leagues better than Rose
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/1