Were NBA teams in the 90s too mentally weak?

[Malik Hairston]

Interesting stat:

Home teams have only been winning at a clip of 53% the past 2 seasons, which is by far the lowest in the history of the league..

Teams in the 80s were winning at a rate of 65-70% at home, and teams in the 90s won around 59-61% of home games..

Why were old-timers so poor at playing on the road, tbh?:(the mean crowds:(

[Killakobe81]

Interesting stat:

Home teams have only been winning at a clip of 53% the past 2 seasons, which is by far the lowest in the history of the league..

Teams in the 80s were winning at a rate of 65-70% at home, and teams in the 90s won around 59-61% of home games..

Why were old-timers so poor at playing on the road, tbh?:(the mean crowds:(

I know this is a thing of yours but think about those old buildings teams used to play in I would argue almost every new building provides less of a HCA then the new ones. OF course having a better team makes a diffrence them Spurs have been good for over a decade home and away including impressive runs on the infamous rodeo trip ...

If you watch clips of Reunion Arena (Dallas), the spectrum (philly) Old Boston Garden, the Forum, The Salt Palace etc. I Would hate to play in those old places a lot more than the pristine new places Like Staples and TD Garden that has take over. Better fan experience but less home-court advantage ...

[Raven]

last season had a crazy schedule.

[ambchang]

Lebron was 0-1 in buildings without AC.

Boston Garden didn't AC.

Superfriends would have been swept by the 80s Celtics.

[Franklin]

I guess that's probably because today's fans aren't as enthusiastic about this game as the old school fans were. Or in another way it may indicate that people have already realized how fake the game is, or how fake the game has become in Stern's tenure. Fans just watch the game for fun these days, rooting only for the winning teams, and you can no longer see die-hard fans of any specific team. They just don't give a shit anymore, it seems like.

[pookenstein]

Also there is the travel aspect to consider.
Travelling 20+ years ago took a much bigger toll on athletes than it does today. No first class flights, no private jets. Instead they had bus tours or shit like that.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Lebron was 0-1 in buildings without AC.

Boston Garden didn't AC.

Superfriends would have been swept by the 80s Celtics.

Jesus Christ you're such an insufferably stupid gook


I guess that's probably because today's fans aren't as enthusiastic about this game as the old school fans were. Or in another way it may indicate that people have already realized how fake the game is, or how fake the game has become in Stern's tenure. Fans just watch the game for fun these days, rooting only for the winning teams, and you can no longer see die-hard fans of any specific team. They just don't give a shit anymore, it seems like.

This, basketball isn't interesting enough when your team sucks...especially the neverending, mostly meaningless regular season. There's no real rivalries to look forward to either--just kinda lame all-around. Obviously there's a few players worth the price of admission, but there's an overwhelming sense of meh.

To be fair i was also a kid with no responsibilities in the 90s, so sports were easier to follow, naturally.

[ambchang]

Jesus Christ you're such an insufferably stupid gook

I thought Jesus is/was/will always be Jewish. He's also pretty smart too.

[D-Wade]

Because the NBA used to be Faaantastic.

Now it's not.

[Sheriff Hoyt]

lol most players today complain about touch fouls.

[Stalin]

I guess that's probably because today's fans aren't as enthusiastic about this game as the old school fans were. Or in another way it may indicate that people have already realized how fake the game is, or how fake the game has become in Stern's tenure. Fans just watch the game for fun these days, rooting only for the winning teams, and you can no longer see die-hard fans of any specific team. They just don't give a shit anymore, it seems like.



Have to agree to some extent, refs rigging the game took away some credibility for me, who gives a shit if at any time Stern or whoever can adjust the result so they can make more money at the expense of the games essence. As well as, these days its either chucking 3's or driving the lane into the one or two good bigs left in the league followed by a flopping foul and a three throw parade to help out current "superstars" like Meth Durant, or Harden. Then you have Kobe Rapist shitting on today's game by chucking for records instead of competing for wins. When you see on so many levels that its not about competition but how much money NBA can make, one has to consider if this isn't just a waste of time.

[cantthinkofanything]

I guess that's probably because today's fans aren't as enthusiastic about this game as the old school fans were. Or in another way it may indicate that people have already realized how fake the game is, or how fake the game has become in Stern's tenure. Fans just watch the game for fun these days, rooting only for the winning teams, and you can no longer see die-hard fans of any specific team. They just don't give a shit anymore, it seems like.

if a team really wanted a home court advantage, they need to build something small and uncomfortably tight. also, spare any luxuries on the other teams locker room. Make it a miserable place to play as a visitor and make the fans as uncomfortable and pissed off as possible. keep beer reasonably priced.

but then the owner is not making enough money.

also, you have decent tickets costing so much that lower income people can't afford good seats. these low income people are the ones that "live and die" based on the success of their local sports team and are the loudest fans in the arena.

then you have the arenas being so upscale that it's not just about the game anymore. people come to be be seen, eat, have some drinks, do business, etc. the game is often just background noise to them.

[spurraider21]

I thought Jesus is/was/will always be Jewish. He's also pretty smart too.
pretty sure jesus ended up christian tbh

[hater]

:lol this generation's best 2 players (LeRoids and Ethiopia) are possibly the most mentally weak #1 and #2 players in the history of the game

fail tbh

[Infinite_limit]

Less jumbotrons: fans sitting on their hands watching video clips. Less texting and recording clips of the game (which no one will ever watch) on their mobile leashes. Today's fan is almost as watered down as the players on the court

[RsxPiimp]

I thought Jesus is/was/will always be Jewish. He's also pretty smart too.

:lol Dude Jesus was/will always be a Christian, get your facts straight

[ambchang]

:lol Dude Jesus was/will always be a Christian, get your facts straight

Arguable.

[RsxPiimp]

Arguable.

:lol

[DMC]

Because players have an excuse to lose now. Losing at home used to be frowned upon. Now it's a strategy.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol '90s basketball

[RsxPiimp]

:lol '90s basketball

They're both shitty.

Boston Celtics who are purposely tanking are 2 games. 2 GAMES!!! back from the playoff seed :lmao


This season is shaping up as one of the worst and most watered down in the history of the league to be quite fucking honest...

[cantthinkofanything]

They're both shitty.

Boston Celtics who are purposely tanking are 2 games. 2 GAMES!!! back from the playoff seed :lmao


This season is shaping up as one of the worst and most watered down in the history of the league to be quite fucking honest...

Season is too damn long and coaches are figuring out that being healthy and rested is better than moving up a seed or two.

[Killakobe81]

pretty sure jesus ended up christian tbh

I shouldnt but I laughed ...

[Killakobe81]

Less jumbotrons: fans sitting on their hands watching video clips. Less texting and recording clips of the game (which no one will ever watch) on their mobile leashes. Today's fan is almost as watered down as the players on the court

Truth. The Cuban's place is one of the WORST offenders. Lots of sights and sights for sounds for kids (and corny adults)a nd he has been deliberate about it. Says he offers a family experience. But the Mavs are all about videos with Dirk on John Travolta's head dancing to SNF songs and fat dudes with bellies out at half-time. Concessions are nuts (ha) and as someone else said it's more for the movers and shakers to wine and dine potential clients. Beautiful arena I have enjoyed both a suite and cheap seats there ... (never courtside) but old Reunion (never been) but I remember my GOAT Laker teams struggling at that place ... The Lakers have won everytime I went to see them here except of course when it mattered most Game 3 in 2011 =(

[StrengthAndHonor]

They're both shitty.

Boston Celtics who are purposely tanking are 2 games. 2 GAMES!!! back from the playoff seed :lmao


This season is shaping up as one of the worst and most watered down in the history of the league to be quite fucking honest...
I had to check to make sure you weren't kidding. Wow, that is horrible.

[Phillip]

:lol this generation's best 2 players (LeRoids and Ethiopia) are possibly the most mentally weak #1 and #2 players in the history of the game

fail tbh

stupid.

the only time lebron showed any kind of mental weakness was 1 playoff series against the mavs

aside from that, im curious as to where all this mental weakness was shown

[cantthinkofanything]

stupid.

the only time lebron showed any kind of mental weakness was 1 playoff series against the mavs

aside from that, im curious as to where all this mental weakness was shown

LOL. nigga is you serious?

[Phillip]

LOL. nigga is you serious?

prove it

[hater]

stupid.

the only time lebron showed any kind of mental weakness was 1 playoff series against the mavs

aside from that, im curious as to where all this mental weakness was shown

:lol :lol

[cantthinkofanything]

prove it

not worth my time.

I can't name all of Jon Cryer's shitty movies either but I'm confident saying he's done shitty movies. So many that I don't bother to note them.

[cantthinkofanything]

but here's some mental weakness anyway....

E5DzoRnu3jA

[hater]

:lol

PlJVN9KopG8

:lol

[Beaverfuzz]

also, you have decent tickets costing so much that lower income people can't afford good seats. these low income people are the ones that "live and die" based on the success of their local sports team and are the loudest fans in the arena.

then you have the arenas being so upscale that it's not just about the game anymore. people come to be be seen, eat, have some drinks, do business, etc. the game is often just background noise to them.


Pretty spot on actually.

[hater]

5HHxkTHjBZo

:lol

[Killakobe81]

but here's some mental weakness anyway....

E5DzoRnu3jA

I actually enjoy Lebron's love and passion for the game ... but not a fan of the shucking and jiving. And wasnt your boy Danny Green one of the main supporters of this? I get his is older now but Danny wasnt doing dat shit on Pop's watch ...

[Killakobe81]

I actually enjoy Lebron's love and passion for the game ... but not a fan of the shucking and jiving. And wasnt your boy Danny Green one of the main supporters of this? I get his is older now but Danny wasnt doing dat shit on Pop's watch ...

yep. that is him grinning right behind him ...

[The Gemini Method]

Also there is the travel aspect to consider.
Travelling 20+ years ago took a much bigger toll on athletes than it does today. No first class flights, no private jets. Instead they had bus tours or shit like that.

Indeed. The whores on board had to navigate the lack of space to give brain. The coco, though, was by far a better product back then...

[cantthinkofanything]

I actually enjoy Lebron's love and passion for the game ... but not a fan of the shucking and jiving. And wasnt your boy Danny Green one of the main supporters of this? I get his is older now but Danny wasnt doing dat shit on Pop's watch ...

I don't really consider Green as part of the discussion. I guess I was just thinking about those in the category of all time greats. I don't know anyone else on that list so unfocused that they'd decide to shuck and jive during a game while it was going on. This act alone doesn't prove anything but I think it just helps to underline his overall approach.

[lefty]

Well this thread quickly backfired on OP

[Splits]

:lol Dude Jesus was/will always be a Christian, get your facts straight

He was a Jewish Rabbi from Galilee

[Malik Hairston]

Well this thread quickly backfired on OP

It did? Nobody argued against the numbers in the OP:lol..

[Stalin]

stupid.

the only time lebron showed any kind of mental weakness was 1 playoff series against the mavs

aside from that, im curious as to where all this mental weakness was shown



:lol:lol:lol


No shock Mavfan, has mental weakness on block, Nazi Dirk made chocking into an art form for over a decade, despite being on stacked teams year after year. Until finally the stars aligned and he had a decent shooting stretch of about 20 games in the playoffs in order to receive his Fluke Championship, thereby becoming according to mavfan, a top 10 player of all time in history of the nba.

[Phillip]

not worth my time.

I can't name all of Jon Cryer's shitty movies either but I'm confident saying he's done shitty movies. So many that I don't bother to note them.

good save :tu

[Phillip]

but here's some mental weakness anyway....

E5DzoRnu3jA

How is that mental weakness?


:lol

PlJVN9KopG8

:lol

That does not prove he is mentally weak. It proves he makes mistakes, same as every other great player.


5HHxkTHjBZo

:lol

That doesn't prove anything, other than perhaps physical weakness, as a result of being overused by his team.

[phxspurfan]

Lack of HGH/recovery drugs and crooked refs like Knick Bavetta in the 90s TBH

[Infinite_limit]

Truth. The Cuban's place is one of the WORST offenders. Lots of sights and sights for sounds for kids (and corny adults)a nd he has been deliberate about it. Says he offers a family experience. But the Mavs are all about videos with Dirk on John Travolta's head dancing to SNF songs and fat dudes with bellies out at half-time. Concessions are nuts (ha) and as someone else said it's more for the movers and shakers to wine and dine potential clients. Beautiful arena I have enjoyed both a suite and cheap seats there ... (never courtside) but old Reunion (never been) but I remember my GOAT Laker teams struggling at that place ... The Lakers have won everytime I went to see them here except of course when it mattered most Game 3 in 2011 =(
Hahah sounds like a circus. I watch Shark Tank and Cuban tried to straight up buy a small company that made clip on ties. He was going to use it strictly for Maverick merchandise inside the stadium

I remember Bill Simmons (I know most hate him) exposing this years ago


That's a crucial point: Most NBA games these days are overshadowed by a misguided attempt to turn the game into a scene. Every team turns down the lights for the introductions, blasts the same Black Eyed Peas songs, shows the same inspirational movie clips, trots out the same semi-skanky-looking cheerleaders, plays the same musical cues to get fans to cheer ... really, it's organized manipulation that doesn't differ from city to city.




NFL - 2008
"Attention Home-Field advantage has left the building"


I realized this during the Bears-Colts game in Week 1, when Kyle Orton waltzed into Indy and ruined the grand opening of Lucas Oil Stadium, the latest state-of-the-art football venue that seems much more interested in looking cool and making money over, you know, actually helping its home team win games. The place was so dead for four quarters that you could almost hear John Madden salivating over his postgame meal of fried turkey legs, blooming onions and Lipitor parmigiana. You could have laid a baby down at midfield, and it wouldn't have woken up.

The chasm between the "haves" and the "have-nots" was jarring. I've attended three Pats games in the Gillette Mausoleum and always felt like I had been transported into a David Lynch movie in which everything looked slightly the same, only it isn't even remotely the same. Throw in the dirty secret that it isn't really fun to attend an NFL game in the 21st century -- the routine of "kickoff, TV timeout, three plays, punt, TV timeout, five plays, field goal, TV timeout, kickoff, TV timeout, someone gets hurt on first down, prolonged TV timeout, three more plays, touchdown, extra point, TV timeout, kickoff, TV timeout" gets old after about 25 minutes -- and by 2006 Bug's friends were making pro-and-con lists for keeping their tickets.

Patriots opened Patriot Place this season, a super-mall/mega-complex that bumped fans out of the main parking lot unless they paid an extortion fe— er, a premium fee. Team Buggy now tailgates on the other side of Route 1 for $50, crammed between a zillion other cars in a miasma of charcoal fumes. It takes them 35-40 minutes to walk from this space and find their seats inside. It takes them another 90 minutes to get home because common fans can't use the special access road for high rollers. Suddenly, it's an 11-hour commitment -- and a relatively expensive one -- to hang out and support their favorite team in an increasingly somber stadium."We used to stand for every big down and every big drive," Bug says wistfully. "Now people yell at us to sit down. The old stadium was a dump, but we felt like we were at a football game, you know? Now we're at ... I don't know. The fans don't affect the game anymore. It's really sad. Grover calls it the wine-and-cheese crowd. We've become the fans we always made fun of."


That brewing disenfranchisement keeps popping up at these home games. You can not hear it, if that makes sense. And not just in New England. Thirteen teams have built SOTAS (state-of-the-art stadiums) since 1999; 14 if you include Daniel Snyder's overhauling of FedEx Field in 2004. Each stadium follows a similar let's-rake-in-the-cash blueprint. The first section of seats hug the field. At the top of those sections, the club seats start. That's followed by a phalanx of premium luxury suites. More luxury suites dominate the second section. And the majority of blue-collar fans are crammed into the upper decks. Fundamentally, it's a flawed way to cultivate a home-field advantage; beyond the emotional compromises and festering resentment of the blue-collar fans, the newer stadiums don't reverberate noise the same. Look at Lambeau or Ralph Wilson Stadium -- just rows and rows of fans, one after the other, rising for something like 75 rows before you hit your first luxury box. Watching the Browns-Bills game Monday night, I found myself enjoying the fans as much as the contest itself. Now this was football!

[Infinite_limit]

but here's some mental weakness anyway....

E5DzoRnu3jA
So embarrassing for the NBA. He did the same shit tonight. His own teammates had to grab and tell him "It's not over yet" (6 seconds left in game and Blazers with ball

[Killakobe81]

I don't really consider Green as part of the discussion. I guess I was just thinking about those in the category of all time greats. I don't know anyone else on that list so unfocused that they'd decide to shuck and jive during a game while it was going on. This act alone doesn't prove anything but I think it just helps to underline his overall approach.

Fair point. Not saying I equate dancing to mental weakness but I do think it shows how nonchalant he was about the focus it takes to ring. After that season he stopped clowning around ... and played with more edge. Maybe it was just maturity or he needed to lose enough however he still did that punching Dwade stuff in the 2011 Finals and Dirk & JET made him pay. Agaimn i like the joy he has for the game I just think he was better off without this type of shit.

[Splits]

it's stupid though, if you're pointing out that it's totally different because basketball changed as a sport with the institution of the three point line then doesn't the road runboth ways? Your record is no longer applicable to the sport we play today? So your record is what, fuckingETERNAL now if any of those points higher than your total come from the three point line? Dudes gotta play like it's 1978?
I love the Iceman but I'm always not-down with old basketball players bitching and moaning about contemporary trends and players (it's getting even fucking worse with dudes from the 90s or dudes STILL in the league like Kobe, back in my day blahblahblahblah grit heart DANG THESE STATS!!!) and I'm not really changing that opinion because he happens to be a Spur. Retired players unable to play anymore, stuck in the past, just grasping at whatever they can in the present, often diminishing the achievements of contemporary players, whatever dude stop shouting at me to get off your lawn.
You better believe this just makes him look like a petty hater to all the non-Spurs NBA fans unless they're specialized fetishizers of the past or fucking Bill Simmons. :rolleyes Like sorry dude, I'm pretty sure most of those glorious classic Celtics teams would look like old men on the court in today's NBA. :lol
And before you start ranting about monkeyball vs. b-ball IQ and all that bullshit, we wouldn't be anywhere in this current era without Kawhi Leonard's athleticism and physical abilities so you can stick that racist Eurotrash bullshit right back up your ass (UUUHHH YOU'RE RUNNING FASTER AND JUMPING HIGHER IN THIS SPORT OF BASKETBALL, HOW DARE YOU FILTHY AMERICANS!!!!! WHAT WE ARE BAD AT IS CLEARLY CHEAP AND DUMB!!!!). Except for a set number of old legends (including admittedly dudes like the Iceman, and obviously Wilt was enough of a unique specimen to own the top athletes of today's age) a lot of those dudes would get totally owned by today's athletes.

Retired athletes just need to be able to nod, smile, and go, "Not bad young fella". Keep that petty "BUT WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!" shit to yourself dude. There's a reason it's funny. There's a reason everyone laughs.

[cantthinkofanything]

So embarrassing for the NBA. He did the same shit tonight. His own teammates had to grab and tell him "It's not over yet" (6 seconds left in game and Blazers with ball


Fair point. Not saying I equate dancing to mental weakness but I do think it shows how nonchalant he was about the focus it takes to ring. After that season he stopped clowning around ... and played with more edge. Maybe it was just maturity or he needed to lose enough however he still did that punching Dwade stuff in the 2011 Finals and Dirk & JET made him pay. Agaimn i like the joy he has for the game I just think he was better off without this type of shit.

I think this is why a couple of years of college would have been great for him. Actually learn the game in a system under a great basketball mind. Understand the team aspect. As a teen, he obviously was a one man show so never picked up this part of the game. Not that I wouldn't have done the same thing. Take the money and avoid any risk of injury. That being said, I think parts of his game have not come along like they would have had he gone to college.