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SpurPadre
01-31-2015, 07:44 PM
My apologies if this has been posted already.

http://gothicginobili.com/?p=7573 (http://gothicginobili.com/?p=7573)
Examining Tony Parker's Curious DeclinePosted on January 30, 2015 (http://gothicginobili.com/?p=7573) by Aaron McGuire (http://gothicginobili.com/?author=1)

http://gothicginobili.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-30-at-11.40.07-AM-1024x660.png (http://gothicginobili.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-30-at-11.40.07-AM.png)Stats for this post were provided by Basketball Reference (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html), NBA.com (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2225/tracking/defense/?Season=2013-14), and magical stat pixies.
Look, Tony Parker hasn't been playing very well this season. It doesn't really matter how you look at it. Whether you're looking at an on/off court perspective, basic counting stats, or SportVU-type detailed breakdowns... he's just been rather mediocre. Bad, even. How bad? Let's find out.

• • •ON/OFF COURT IMPACT
Virtually everyone is aware of the on/off impact that Kawhi Leonard has had this year with the Spurs. When Kawhi's on the court, they've played excellent ball. When he's not, they've been... shaky, to say the least. Fewer are aware of the fact that Tony Parker's on-court presence has been essentially the opposite. With Parker on the court, San Antonio has been outscored by one point (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01/on-off/2015/). Their defense has been atrocious and their offense has been below par. With Parker off, they've been absolutely excellent, outscoring opponents by 7.6 points. Here are some simple numbers on San Antonio's team performance with Tony Parker on and off the court from the current season:
http://gothicginobili.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-29-at-10.38.29-AM-1024x134.png
Correlation does not equal causation. The fact that the Spurs rebound a little worse with Parker on the floor has very little to do with Parker. But there are a few things that Parker (as San Antonio's primary ballhandler) is directly involved in. The team's shooting (which has been worse with Tony on the floor), the team's assist rate (slightly higher), the team's turnover rate (slightly lower) and the overall offensive rating (which has been 2.4 points worse with Tony on the floor) all have varying degrees of connection with how Tony plays the game. And the defensive rating helps express the massive drop-off between Tony and Cory Joseph (and, frankly, Tony and Patty Mills -- both Patty and Cory have beaten the pants off Tony defensively this year). Put it all together, and you get a not-so-pretty picture. It's been a bad year for Tony. Worse yet, it's part of a trend.

http://gothicginobili.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-29-at-10.37.34-AM.png
This chart shows the on minus off performance in each of the metrics above. As an example, compare the 2015: ON - OFF column to the chart above. Note that eFG is calculated by 0.505 - 0.509 = - 0.004. Same is true of all the columns. Red indicates something that's bad for that column (for instance, the Spurs defended 11.5 points worse per 100 possessions with Tony on the court in the 2010 playoffs), green indicates something good (the Spurs net rating was 20.5 points per 100 possessions better with Tony on the court in the 2012 playoffs), and yellow indicates mediocrity or generally something close to zero. You'll note that with the singular exception of this year's increased on-court assist rate, Parker's play has been more detrimental to the Spurs this year than it's ever been in San Antonio's recent run. The past few years has seen a steady erosion of Parker's value. They've played better with Parker off the court than they have with him on it ever since the 2013 regular season. You know, two years ago.There are a bunch of mitigating factors that should be considered here. To specify:

Parker tends to face starters and San Antonio's bench mob tends to destroy teams off the bench, inflating +/- differences.
The playoff numbers from 2010 to 2013 are comparing wildly different minute profiles, as he spent 70%+ of San Antonio's minutes on the floor.
Parker suffered injuries in the 2013 playoffs that significantly compromised his value.

All those factors considered, this still isn't good when it comes to this season's performance. Perhaps it's enough to explain and mitigate his performance last year, but not when the difference is as drastic as this year. Parker's performance has also overlapped highly with most of San Antonio's best performers this season, which makes it harder to justify the bench mob talk.

http://gothicginobili.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-30-at-11.30.56-AM.pngThe minutes columns show the number of minutes the two players have shared, as well as the percentage of the player's minutes that those represent as well as the percentage of Tony's minutes that those represent. The green/underlined number indicates whether the teammate had better on/off impact with Parker on the floor or better overall, using net efficiency per 100 possessions. For instance, the Spurs have outscored teams by 4.0 points per 100 possessions with Duncan on the court, while they've outscored teams by 4.4 points per 100 possessions with Duncan off the court -- hence, their net + / - with Duncan on the floor has been -0.4. With Parker, his net + / - has been +1.3 in 712 minutes, which is higher than Duncan's overall net + / -. Which is good. Duncan/Parker is a better two man team than Duncan alone.
Unfortunately, the same isn't true when you look at almost every other player on the Spurs. Aron Baynes also has had a slightly more positive impact when working in synergy with Parker than he has alone, but results have been worse with Parker than without for everyone else. Danny Green's three pointers drop less when Parker's setting them up. Leonard's defensive impact gets stalled by having to make up for a two-steps-slow Tony. Even the much-ballyhooed French connection with Diaw and Parker has stalled out, with both players playing worse with Parker and Diaw on the floor.

• • •COUNTING STATS, WEIGHTED STATS
On/off numbers are great for teasing out lineup impact and basic player influence, but an individual player's per-game box score contributions can shed light on how the player is making his mark on the floor. Or, in Tony's case, how the player is operating well below expectations. Stat-by-stat, relevant ones only:


POINTS: Parker is averaging 14.5 points a game. He's currently an unexpected third in PPG on San Antonio's roster, behind Duncan and Leonard. If the average holds, it's the fewest points per night he's produced since his rookie year. If you adjust for San Antonio's slower pace and Parker's fewer minutes, it's a bit better (25.8 PP100), but that still represents Parker's worst scoring season in over a decade.



ASSISTS: I need to get this off my chest. Parker has never been a great "assists" point guard. He's a good workaday passer that operates perfectly in San Antonio's motion offense, but he's never been the kind of player to average 10-12 assists per night with wild passes peppering the proceedings. Spurs fans tend to overrate his passing a bit, assuming that San Antonio's scheme is somehow lowering his assist rate more than any other system would. I disagree with that. All that said, if Parker isn't scoring, you'd expect he'd at least be producing assists at a solid rate. You'd be wrong. Just as with points, he's averaging fewer assists than he has since his rookie year, and on a per-possession basis it's his worst passing year in a decade. His assist rate of 28% ranks 16th among the NBA's 30 regular starting point guards. He's also below three starting shooting guards and one starting forward (hi, LeBron!). That's... less than ideal.



TURNOVERS: One of Parker's greatest talents is generally a close-to-ideal defense of the ball. When he's clicking, he doesn't turn it over very often. Except for this season, where he turns it over on 15% of his possessions. That doesn't sound like much, but it's in spitting distance of his career high (17%) and the 10th worst figure among the NBA's 30 starting point guards. If he was averaging last year's 12%, he'd be 4th in the league behind Lowry, Lillard, Burke, and Irving. There's a big difference between his ballhandling last year and this year.



SHOOTING: This is the one place where Parker remains high. If I was President Obama, I'd say that "the state of the Parker remains strong." [EDITOR'S NOTE: I am not Obama.] He's 9th among starting point guards in effective field goal percentage, pretty similar to his performance last year. Not too many nits to pick, here, in terms of the overall view. You need to get into his shot distribution for that. Hey, speaking of which...

... let's look at Tony's shot selection! At a high level, examine the evolution of Tony's shot distribution.

http://gothicginobili.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-30-at-12.39.05-PM-1024x654.pngOnce again, it's trending in a bad direction. He's having more trouble getting to the rim this year than he's ever had in his career, and he's relying more and more on his long range game. One could argue that part of the reason for this is his absurdly good three point bombing this season -- Parker's made over 50% of his shots from three this year, nearly 15 points higher than his previous career high over a season. Early in the year, this was a source of solace for Spurs fans eager to consider the possibility that Parker had added a shot to his repertoire.
Count me as a naysayer. Watch some of his threes on the NBA Stats Site -- he's draining wide open threes, as he's always done, but he's still got the same weird hitch in his shot that kept him from being a volume shooter from beyond the arc. It's part of what traditionally makes him so good at long twos, but it's always thrown off his three point shot whenever there's an ounce of pressure. Over 50% of Parker's three point shots come with over 6 feet of space. Sometimes a player will go on a good run and inflate their stats. That's my take on Tony's aberrational three point gunning. Nothing in his form has changed so much that I'd expect him to make that kind of a percentage on his threes. And from a playoffs perspective, it's wildly unlikely he'll be looking at shots that open against any reasonable defense. Parker's improved three point shooting can help carry his regular season stats, but it's not going to be much of a boon come playoff time.

• • •SOME QUICK SPORTSVU NUGGETS
This post is already going a bit long, so I'll make this part short. Here are a few nuggets from his SportsVU profile (http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/2225/tracking/passes/?Season=2013-14) that stand out.
THE GOOD:


Tony Parker has been widely known to be one of the fastest players in the NBA (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/analysts-starting-track-fastest-players-nba-150028733.html). This is still true. In terms of distance traveled per 48 minutes (my favorite of the speed metrics), Parker is leading the league at 3.8 miles traveled per 48 minutes. That leads the league, and (somewhat inexplicably) is actually better than he did last season.



Danny Green and Tim Duncan are shooting better off Parker's passes (47% and 55%, respectively) than they did in 2014 (41% and 42%, respectively). He's finding them in better spots than he did last year, which is nice. (As an aside, this is part of why Duncan's on/off numbers are better with Parker around -- Parker's doing a MUCH better job setting him up than Patty or Cory, which makes the offense run better with both of them in sync.)

THE BAD:


Although Parker is shooting a bit better on quick shots with few dribbles, he's shooting worse and more often with 3 or more dribbles before the shot. This jives with what most Spurs fans have seen. San Antonio's offense has been a lot more stopped up this year, with more dribbling and freelancing over last year's pinpoint execution of the best possible shot. The fact that he's not only shooting more often from those situations but also shooting WORSE is a bad sign.



Boris Diaw is only shooting 40% off of Tony Parker passes. Last year he shot 52% off Parker's passes. Part of this is because Diaw is proportionally more three point attempts off Parker's passes, but only part of it -- he's only shooting 23% on three point tries that come off of Parker passes (as opposed to 46% last year), so it's obviously not just a proportion issue.



Tony Parker used to be one of the NBA's best guys at getting the "old-fashioned" three point play (a two-point basket and the foul) -- as recently as 2013 he was getting one old-fashioned and-1 opportunity every two games he played. Last year was a bad year for Parker when it came to and-ones, but this year is straight up ridiculous -- he's only had seven opportunities through 33 games. He simply isn't absorbing contact like he used to, which is messing up his offensive flow and making it harder for him to finish at the rim on the whole. Part of this is the injury, but last year's poor numbers (just 19 and-1s all year) may imply that this is part of his evolution as an aging player. Which would be bad, as this kind of high-impact driving was once his bread and butter.



Players defended by Tony Parker are shooting 72% at the rim. Not a typo. They're also getting there more often than last year (18% of Tony's defensive possessions as opposed to 13% last year). That's... less than ideal. Parker's never been a defensive stalwart. But he's rarely been quite this bad. Players are shooting ~4% better against Parker than they shoot on average, which is the difference between the best shooting point guard (Stephen Curry) and the 10th best (Mike Conley). Goes a decent distance in explaining why Parker's man keeps going off, doesn't it?


• • •Some terrible, awful, atrocious analysts (http://www.48minutesofhell.com/48moh-statistical-sleuthing-on-tony-in-the-paint) have spat obscenities and foretold doom about Parker's play before. He's generally made them look silly. In fact, he's made them look SO silly in the past that people often seem tentative to criticize his play. Much like the Spurs as a whole, there's a decided hesitance to call Parker on his poor play. The guiding assumption is that Parker is eventually going to stave off the cobwebs and return to his scintillating performances he's known for. And articles pointing out his poor return from injury or his tentative steps are going to be out of date in no time flat.
Individually, none of these stats are gospel. Indeed, there are reasonable contextual reasons you could expect one or two of them to underrate or overrate a player like Tony. This post may make me look silly a month from now if Parker comes back in full force. But taken all together the picture is clear -- Parker's performance is flagging fast. If the Spurs intend to make a serious run at a repeat, they're going to need him to put his game back together.
One final thought. When Parker signed his extension at $14 million dollars a year, the prevailing idea was that San Antonio had snagged a huge bargain. If Parker doesn't shape up, that simply isn't true. Given the glut of incredible point guards in the league, $14 million a year doesn't sound particularly enticing for a barely-above-board point guard. Which, frankly, is how he's playing. In all likelihood, Parker will improve. If not, though, his contract will stand as yet another of the NBA's "great at the time, awful in retrospect" contracts that make many of our snap judgments on contract efficacy so retrospectively silly.

SnakeBoy
01-31-2015, 07:55 PM
?gothicginobli.com?

BackHome
01-31-2015, 08:24 PM
Not going to hate on Tony I can tell that his hamstring is not healed and still giving him trouble. The problem is that it won't go away and is starting to remind me of Miles Austin from the Cowboys.

EVAY
01-31-2015, 08:36 PM
?gothicginobli.com?

apalisoc_9
01-31-2015, 08:44 PM
Was a good read.

FkLA
01-31-2015, 09:15 PM
in b4 this thread and its truth bombs get deleted

cantthinkofanything
01-31-2015, 09:20 PM
TldrDoes it really take a whole article to say he sucks this season?

SpurPadre
01-31-2015, 09:31 PM
TldrDoes it really take a whole article to say he sucks this season?

Well, there's a thing called "analysis"

Johnny RIngo
01-31-2015, 09:32 PM
in b4 this thread and its truth bombs get deleted

That or CryFaggot will post that shitty longcat again

Diego20
01-31-2015, 10:20 PM
:cry no respect for TP? :cry

/thread



:lmao

Johnny RIngo
01-31-2015, 11:25 PM
http://gothicginobili.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-30-at-11.30.56-AM.png

:lol -19 for Marco and Tony

Worst duo in the league

cantthinkofanything
01-31-2015, 11:27 PM
Well, there's a thing called "analysis"

Analysis is often helpful but also often extraneous. Someone could spend pages explaining the different chemicals that are contained in a pile of feces but I don't need any of that to know it stinks.

ElNono
01-31-2015, 11:38 PM
Unfortunately this kinda threads are gonna keep popping off until Tony turns a corner, tbh... hopefully he still has it in him...

SpurPadre
01-31-2015, 11:40 PM
Unfortunately this kinda threads are gonna keep popping off until Tony turns a corner, tbh... hopefully he still has it in him...

Hey, I just linked an objective article. I want him to shake this slump off as much as anyone.

dabom
01-31-2015, 11:41 PM
Unfortunately this kinda threads are gonna keep popping off until Tony turns a corner, tbh... hopefully he still has it in him...

He's not though.

Johnny RIngo
02-01-2015, 01:11 AM
Hey, I just linked an objective article. I want him to shake this slump off as much as anyone.

It was a good article. Unfortunately, the Tony Parker Defense Force is overly sensitive at the moment. Don't be surprised if your thread gets deleted in the next few days.

RD2191
02-01-2015, 01:14 AM
Should of just posted a pic of a pile of shit.

Johnny RIngo
02-01-2015, 01:16 AM
Should of just posted a pic of a pile of shit.

or Josh Smith

RD2191
02-01-2015, 01:17 AM
or Josh Smith
:lmao

TheGoldStandard
02-01-2015, 01:19 AM
Should of just posted a pic of a pile of shit.

A pile of shit might have halted CP3 for a little bit though

apalisoc_9
02-01-2015, 01:20 AM
A pile of shit might have halted CP3 for a little bit though

:lmao

RD2191
02-01-2015, 01:21 AM
A pile of shit might have halted CP3 for a little bit though
TGS dropping nukes.

Malik Hairston
02-01-2015, 01:32 AM
A pile of shit might have halted CP3 for a little bit though

:lmao..

SupremeGuy
02-01-2015, 01:32 AM
Are the mods really deleting all Parker threads? Even ones with legitimate criticisms? That's some weak fucking shit, tbh. Who are the faggots that keep demanding they get deleted? I know TheGreatYacht is always posting retarded shit, but who else? I'm a little drunk and the names escape me. lol

Mikeanaro
02-01-2015, 01:33 AM
http://gothicginobili.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-30-at-11.30.56-AM.png
This is the truth, the reason why he kills almost every team mate ergo THE GAME
Marco will suck with every team so he is out the discussion
Green is a vital part of our success= denied
Kawhi is the present needs all the help he can get to be a star= denied
Boris and the fromage connection is a failure they dont seem to know each other on court= denied
Manu is relegated to just a simple 3 point shooter Ive seen him a million times standing in a corner like a damn scrub= denied
Bonnie Love is retarded he will chuck even a Kareem assist.
Tiago is seriously affected the golden god is more like a cheap silver bum for TP= denied
Baynes always looks better playing with Manu (like every player on earth)= denied
Cojo is a 5th string guard to him and a menace to his starter position= denied
What I say is my personal opinion but the numbers dont lie guys so do what you want and make your own resolutions.

apalisoc_9
02-01-2015, 01:46 AM
The above graph shows exactly what I have been saying a million times last year and this year..Parker's really poor at getting anyone involved outside of Tim and the other big roller...Tiago starts so he doesn't really benefit from Parker running the PnR...

..His passes that he makes that's not for timmy are either forxed or after trying 2-3 times doing the PnR but failing..

Parker only knows one thing and one thing only..Either it's his points or he passes to timmy..

Spursfanfromafar
02-01-2015, 02:20 AM
Wow. I thought Parker was having a bad season (and a half) but I didn't know it was this bad. The numbers don't lie.

The solace is that all this has coincided with Parker having a really bad time with injuries. Bad hamstrings, bad backs, muscle/ligament injuries which take a toll on any player, and moreso with players who are good in the paint and depend upon speed and contact absorption. If, a big IF, Parker recovers from his niggles, there is a chance that he will be serviceable again. His experience and playoff nous are worth it. If its systematic decline, we will know by end of season. If the Spurs don't get out of first round, they might have to think of trading Parker, who despite his salary in a PG dominated league can be enticed by a number of teams.

If on the other hand, Parker turns a corner, recovers from his injury and atleast show upward trends offensively (don't think there will be much of an improvement in defense), then the Spurs will have a chance - a fighting chance -to repeat. And if they do, they might still keep Parker and look for a trade later, rather than now.

cantthinkofanything
02-01-2015, 10:23 AM
http://gothicginobili.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Screen-Shot-2015-01-30-at-11.30.56-AM.png


Omg. He actually makes Bonner worse. I stand corrected...this IS helpful analysis.

Beaverfuzz
02-01-2015, 11:13 AM
FUCK THE BELGIE!

Brazil
02-01-2015, 11:53 AM
:lol people acting like somebody in here is defending parker this season... This season parker sucks there is no other way to say it. He is basically one of the worst starter of the league... Everybody sees it and says it.

rudwick
02-01-2015, 11:55 AM
I'm not defending Tony's play, but there are flaws in those stats. To put it simply the "with TP" stats could also be retitled "against the other team's starters". Breaking out the games where he plays vs ones he did not play would probably give a more accurate picture. You only have to watch to see his defense is lacking, as is Manu's, which explains our inability to close out games with that pair on the floor.

Diego20
02-01-2015, 12:10 PM
:lol people acting like somebody in here is defending parker this season... This season parker sucks there is no other way to say it. He is basically one of the worst starter of the league... Everybody sees it and says it.

:cry hater and thegreatfaggot keep saying he's MVParker :cry

And yes, there's also other people defending TP (Cry Faggot, Perry Mason, etc).

Mikeanaro
02-01-2015, 03:43 PM
:cry hater and thegreatfaggot keep saying he's MVParker :cry

And yes, there's also other people defending TP (Cry Faggot, Perry Mason, etc).
Thats 4 accounts doesnt have too much weight even here.
They want to die with their dumb takes even when they know it all was a big failure.

DJR210
02-01-2015, 04:12 PM
This contract almost a bad a Kobe's.

Godbama
02-01-2015, 04:19 PM
http://i.imgur.com/7wsvXys.jpg

Pauleta14
02-01-2015, 05:24 PM
:cry hater and thegreatfaggot keep saying he's MVParker :cry

And yes, there's also other people defending TP (Cry Faggot, Perry Mason, etc).

He is just trolling you the same way you troll with your constant insults...

Pauleta14
02-01-2015, 05:32 PM
I'm not defending Tony's play, but there are flaws in those stats. To put it simply the "with TP" stats could also be retitled "against the other team's starters". Breaking out the games where he plays vs ones he did not play would probably give a more accurate picture. You only have to watch to see his defense is lacking, as is Manu's, which explains our inability to close out games with that pair on the floor.

Good point.

I still don't understand why anyone would feel the need to write that kind of article though...

The same way all these trolls/haters on ST who keep bringing stats showing that he sucks, what's the point? Are they just bored? Is it a personal thing lol?

Tony is having a horrible season for obvious reasons (injury) and "subjective" ones (will he ever recover), that's all. There's nothing we can do but wait and hope...

The reason I still have hope for Tony, is Manu. He sucked so much in 2012-13 that I (we) though he was finished, and then 2013-14 he was great again!

Pauleta14
02-01-2015, 05:35 PM
This contract almost a bad a Kobe's.

I don't like Kobe, but he is underpaid considering the money he brings to the franchise...

IF Tony is finished, his contract would be way worst than Kobe's

keywester
02-01-2015, 05:38 PM
Maybe TP is like Tiger Woods.....He has lost his physical and mental ability to be great? Just one to many parties.

dabom
02-01-2015, 06:11 PM
Good point.

I still don't understand why anyone would feel the need to write that kind of article though...

The same way all these trolls/haters on ST who keep bringing stats showing that he sucks, what's the point? Are they just bored? Is it a personal thing lol?

Tony is having a horrible season for obvious reasons (injury) and "subjective" ones (will he ever recover), that's all. There's nothing we can do but wait and hope...

The reason I still have hope for Tony, is Manu. He sucked so much in 2012-13 that I (we) though he was finished, and then 2013-14 he was great again!

Should we shut him down for this season then? cause manu hurt us bad in 2013. Will history repeat itself?

Pauleta14
02-01-2015, 06:28 PM
Should we shut him down for this season then? cause manu hurt us bad in 2013. Will history repeat itself?

I don't know honestly, as long as we don't know what's the real pb...

Is it the hamstring? Mental?

I will start to really worry if he still sucks the last month of RS. IMO there a possibility he (and Pop) are just being extra conservative and just coasting the RS to be fresh/fit for the PO...

Yesterday's game has nothing to do with him (only), it was the whole team. Usually when one or two of the big3/4 suck the others stand up...

Malik Hairston
02-01-2015, 06:31 PM
The article is pretty bad, tbh, but ya, as many of us have been saying, Parker has seen a sharp decline since last year's playoffs..

I don't understand the outrage over Parker's shitty season when his numbers aren't much different than his shitty playoffs from last year, tbh:lol

2014-15 PER: 14.8(7th on the team)
2014 playoffs PER: 15.8(7th on the team)

2015 TS%: 54%
2014 playoffs: 53%

2015 AST%: 28.9%
2014 playoffs: 26.1%

2015 WS/48: 0.76(worst on the team)
2014 playoffs: 0.71(9th on the team)

His advanced On/Off and defensive metrics are worse this year compared to last year's playoffs, but he was still 2nd worst on the team behind Belinelli in the 2014 playoffs..

He's slightly worse overall, this year, when you consider the competition in the playoffs is superior and more consistent..however, it's strange that people completely forgot how poorly Parker played in last year's playoffs:lol..the difference with this year's team is the litany of injuries, the fatigue and the poor play from Splitter..those issues have exacerbated and magnified Parker's problems, but in reality, he wasn't much better during last year's run..

The "Parker opens things up for others" myth is the equivalent of saying "Tim Duncan draws double teams in the post" in 2015:lol..

dabom
02-01-2015, 06:35 PM
The article is pretty bad, tbh, but ya, as many of us have been saying, Parker has seen a sharp decline since last year's playoffs..

I don't understand the outrage over Parker's shitty season when his numbers aren't much different than his shitty playoffs from last year, tbh:lol

2014-15 PER: 14.8(7th on the team)
2014 playoffs PER: 15.8(7th on the team)

2015 TS%: 54%
2014 playoffs: 53%

2015 AST%: 28.9%
2014 playoffs: 26.1%

2015 WS/48: 0.76(worst on the team)
2014 playoffs: 0.71(9th on the team)

On/Off metrics are worse this year than last year's playoffs, but he was still 2nd worst on the team behind Belinelli in the 2014 playoffs..

He's slightly worse overall, this year, when you consider the competition in the playoffs is superior and more consistent..however, it's strange that people completely forgot how poorly Parker played in last year's playoffs:lol..

big shot beli :cry hit that three :cry



:lmao

dabom
02-01-2015, 06:36 PM
But yeah, parker ain't getting better.

MarioSpeedwagon
02-01-2015, 06:36 PM
The dude got old. And its like people are offended that he got old. I dont get this forum.

mkurts
02-02-2015, 03:44 AM
The dude got old. And its like people are offended that he got old. I dont get this forum.

Yes he got old but that is okay as long as he actually understands he needs to adapt to his athletic decline and not kill the team.

Brazil
02-02-2015, 07:15 AM
:cry hater and thegreatfaggot keep saying he's MVParker :cry

And yes, there's also other people defending TP (Cry Faggot, Perry Mason, etc).

:lol hater and co are not saying Parker is having a good season... they just saying team won't go far without him at high level. Nobody is actually saying Parker is having an even reasonable season.

Brazil
02-02-2015, 07:19 AM
The article is pretty bad, tbh, but ya, as many of us have been saying, Parker has seen a sharp decline since last year's playoffs..

I don't understand the outrage over Parker's shitty season when his numbers aren't much different than his shitty playoffs from last year, tbh:lol

2014-15 PER: 14.8(7th on the team)
2014 playoffs PER: 15.8(7th on the team)

2015 TS%: 54%
2014 playoffs: 53%

2015 AST%: 28.9%
2014 playoffs: 26.1%

2015 WS/48: 0.76(worst on the team)
2014 playoffs: 0.71(9th on the team)

His advanced On/Off and defensive metrics are worse this year compared to last year's playoffs, but he was still 2nd worst on the team behind Belinelli in the 2014 playoffs..

He's slightly worse overall, this year, when you consider the competition in the playoffs is superior and more consistent..however, it's strange that people completely forgot how poorly Parker played in last year's playoffs:lol..the difference with this year's team is the litany of injuries, the fatigue and the poor play from Splitter..those issues have exacerbated and magnified Parker's problems, but in reality, he wasn't much better during last year's run..

The "Parker opens things up for others" myth is the equivalent of saying "Tim Duncan draws double teams in the post" in 2015:lol..

This does not make sense as usual... the fact you repeat the same argument over and over does not make it more right son... This year Parker is 10 times worst than last POs.

In last year POs in on/off is actually positive, He played well enough for the Spurs to win. His issue was consistency, he had been key for Mavs serie, had a solid serie against Lollard that spared a bit Spurs legs. He had an overall terrible serie against OKC and globally let Kawhi run the show against Heat which was more than enough.

This year Parker at 30 min a game and the Spurs don't see second round

rasuo214
02-02-2015, 08:36 AM
I looked up the Net Ratings on the team (2 man lineups) just to see how they compare. It's in order of Mins played ( http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612759/lineups/advanced/?GroupQuantity=2&sort=MIN&dir=1 )

All Duos on the team:


Duo GP MINS NET Rating
Duncan,Tim - Green,Danny 43 947 4.8
Duncan,Tim - Parker,Tony 33 765 0.3
Green,Danny - Parker,Tony 34 670 -2
Duncan,Tim - Leonard,Kawhi 27 651 9.4
Diaw,Boris - Green,Danny 46 635 6.2
Diaw,Boris - Ginobili,Manu 41 623 7.7
Leonard,Kawhi - Parker,Tony 25 613 4.7
Green,Danny - Joseph,Cory 45 611 7.3
Diaw,Boris - Duncan,Tim 42 547 6.5
Green,Danny - Leonard,Kawhi 30 540 10.7
Diaw,Boris - Joseph,Cory 43 535 7.1
Diaw,Boris - Leonard,Kawhi 30 527 10.9
Duncan,Tim - Ginobili,Manu 41 521 6
Duncan,Tim - Joseph,Cory 37 503 4.4
Diaw,Boris - Parker,Tony 32 488 -0.8
Ginobili,Manu - Green,Danny 42 440 11.6
Ginobili,Manu - Joseph,Cory 38 438 15.4
Bonner,Matt - Green,Danny 39 418 5.9
Bonner,Matt - Duncan,Tim 35 365 3.3
Baynes,Aron - Diaw,Boris 38 357 4.5
Green,Danny - Splitter,Tiago 25 354 4.3
Baynes,Aron - Joseph,Cory 39 352 5.7
Belinelli,Marco - Diaw,Boris 27 348 -0.5
Belinelli,Marco - Joseph,Cory 27 348 -3.6
Bonner,Matt - Joseph,Cory 39 347 9.7
Ginobili,Manu - Leonard,Kawhi 27 345 10.8
Ginobili,Manu - Parker,Tony 30 332 1.2
Baynes,Aron - Ginobili,Manu 34 327 7.8
Belinelli,Marco - Green,Danny 27 327 1.3
Belinelli,Marco - Duncan,Tim 24 308 -4.4
Belinelli,Marco - Ginobili,Manu 24 282 1.3
Joseph,Cory - Leonard,Kawhi 25 275 15.2
Baynes,Aron - Green,Danny 34 274 7.8
Duncan,Tim - Splitter,Tiago 22 272 -2
Bonner,Matt - Parker,Tony 26 269 -6
Baynes,Aron - Leonard,Kawhi 29 244 11.5
Bonner,Matt - Leonard,Kawhi 23 237 2.1
Joseph,Cory - Splitter,Tiago 23 235 15.3
Baynes,Aron - Belinelli,Marco 24 226 -6.9
Ginobili,Manu - Splitter,Tiago 22 219 9.5
Ginobili,Manu - Mills,Patty 16 215 12.1
Bonner,Matt - Ginobili,Manu 31 213 6.7
Diaw,Boris - Mills,Patty 17 206 7.9
Belinelli,Marco - Bonner,Matt 25 204 0.2
Anderson,Kyle - Joseph,Cory 24 201 -4.2
Parker,Tony - Splitter,Tiago 15 177 -6.1
Baynes,Aron - Bonner,Matt 28 173 -5.8
Belinelli,Marco - Splitter,Tiago 14 169 -6.9
Anderson,Kyle - Green,Danny 20 168 0.3
Baynes,Aron - Parker,Tony 28 157 -0.9
Green,Danny - Mills,Patty 17 145 16
Ayres,Jeff - Joseph,Cory 25 142 -15
Belinelli,Marco - Parker,Tony 15 141 -20.4
Diaw,Boris - Splitter,Tiago 18 132 14
Anderson,Kyle - Bonner,Matt 20 130 2.6
Ayres,Jeff - Diaw,Boris 18 130 -7.3
Ayres,Jeff - Green,Danny 23 126 0.6
Joseph,Cory - Mills,Patty 16 126 15.4
Anderson,Kyle - Baynes,Aron 18 124 -7
Mills,Patty - Splitter,Tiago 15 124 12.1
Anderson,Kyle - Diaw,Boris 17 123 -6.3
Leonard,Kawhi - Splitter,Tiago 9 122 9.6
Daye,Austin - Green,Danny 16 121 -4.1
Daye,Austin - Joseph,Cory 22 120 -10.9
Joseph,Cory - Parker,Tony 21 119 -7.2
Anderson,Kyle - Duncan,Tim 14 113 -9.8
Anderson,Kyle - Ayres,Jeff 16 108 0.7
Baynes,Aron - Mills,Patty 11 105 1.8
Anderson,Kyle - Belinelli,Marco 13 104 -1.1
Ayres,Jeff - Daye,Austin 17 98 -9.9
Baynes,Aron - Daye,Austin 13 98 1.5
Duncan,Tim - Mills,Patty 14 98 19.5
Belinelli,Marco - Leonard,Kawhi 12 93 15.9
Ayres,Jeff - Bonner,Matt 19 91 8.4
Daye,Austin - Diaw,Boris 12 91 -6.3
Anderson,Kyle - Daye,Austin 18 85 -1.3
Bonner,Matt - Mills,Patty 13 83 17.5
Bonner,Matt - Daye,Austin 15 77 10.7
Daye,Austin - Parker,Tony 9 77 -1.9
Ayres,Jeff - Belinelli,Marco 13 73 12.5
Belinelli,Marco - Daye,Austin 11 72 -6.1
Daye,Austin - Ginobili,Manu 12 71 -13.1
Daye,Austin - Duncan,Tim 12 68 2.6
Ayres,Jeff - Ginobili,Manu 12 64 16.5
Belinelli,Marco - Mills,Patty 6 64 5.8
Bonner,Matt - Splitter,Tiago 12 63 11.6
Anderson,Kyle - Parker,Tony 8 56 -25.4
Ayres,Jeff - Mills,Patty 7 56 9.1
Leonard,Kawhi - Mills,Patty 8 55 11
Daye,Austin - Leonard,Kawhi 10 49 10.2
Anderson,Kyle - Ginobili,Manu 10 44 -7
Anderson,Kyle - Splitter,Tiago 8 42 -2.2
Bonner,Matt - Diaw,Boris 11 41 -5.3
Ayres,Jeff - Parker,Tony 7 39 -33.7
Ayres,Jeff - Baynes,Aron 11 38 -28.9
Anderson,Kyle - Leonard,Kawhi 9 36 11.7
Baynes,Aron - Duncan,Tim 7 32 5.3
Mills,Patty - Parker,Tony 7 32 -0.2
Daye,Austin - Splitter,Tiago 5 28 -13.3
Ayres,Jeff - Leonard,Kawhi 8 24 -7.8
Anderson,Kyle - Mills,Patty 6 22 -13.3
Daye,Austin - Mills,Patty 2 19 19.3
Green,JaMychal - Joseph,Cory 2 16 -17.5
Baynes,Aron - Splitter,Tiago 3 15 13.7
Bonner,Matt - Green,JaMychal 2 15 -16.7
Ayres,Jeff - Green,JaMychal 2 11 -36.8
Green,JaMychal - Mills,Patty 1 10 11.8
Baynes,Aron - Williams,Reggie 2 8 -59
Diaw,Boris - Green,JaMychal 2 8 -40.7
Ayres,Jeff - Williams,Reggie 2 7 -52.6
Bonner,Matt - Green,JaMychal 2 7 -42.7
Green,JaMychal - Joseph,Cory 2 7 -42.7
Mills,Patty - Williams,Reggie 2 7 -52.6
Ayres,Jeff - Green,JaMychal 2 6 -48.7
Baynes,Aron - Green,JaMychal 2 6 -66.6
Ayres,Jeff - Splitter,Tiago 2 5 23.7
Green,Danny - Green,JaMychal 2 5 9.4
Joseph,Cory - Williams,Reggie 1 5 -14.3
Baynes,Aron - Green,JaMychal 1 4 -44.8
Bonner,Matt - Williams,Reggie 2 3 -136.7
Green,JaMychal - Splitter,Tiago 1 3 132
Green,Danny - Green,JaMychal 2 2 17.4
Ayres,Jeff - Duncan,Tim 1 0 0
Green,Danny - Williams,Reggie 1 0 0




Duos in Green means player does better with certain player than On Court NetRtg, Red means player does worse, Black is even.

First since the numbers are a bit different than the one posted in the article I'll start with TP:

Tony Parker:
Total Mins: 984
On Court: OffRtg: 101.9 DefRtg: 103.8 = NetRtg: -2.0
Total Mins: 1365
Off Court: OffRtg: 105.0 DefRtg: 97.0 = NetRtg: 8.0
ON-OFF = -10.0

Duos: NetRtg
Green: -2.0
Leonard: 4.7
Duncan: 0.3
Splitter: -6.1
Ginobili: 1.2
Diaw: -0.8
Mills: -0.2
Joseph: -7.2
Belinelli: -20.4
Baynes: -0.9
Bonner: -6.0


Danny Green:
Total Mins: 1446
On Court: OffRtg: 103.8 DefRtg: 98.4 = NetRtg: 5.4
Total Mins: 903
Off Court: OffRtg: 103.6 DefRtg: 102.2 = NetRtg: 1.4
ON-OFF = 4.0

Duos: NetRtg
Parker: -2.0
Leonard: 10.7
Duncan: 4.8
Splitter: 4.3
Ginobili: 11.6
Diaw: 6.2
Mills: 16.0
Joseph: 7.3
Belinelli: 1.3
Baynes: 7.8
Bonner: 5.9


Kawhi Leonard:
Total Mins: 953
On Court: OffRtg: 105.4 DefRtg: 96.0 = NetRtg: 9.4
Total Mins: 1396
Off Court: OffRtg: 102.5 DefRtg: 102.5 = NetRtg: 0.0
ON-OFF = 9.4

Duos: NetRtg
Parker: 4.7
Green: 10.7
Duncan: 9.4
Splitter: 9.6
Ginobili: 10.8
Diaw: 10.9
Mills: 11.0
Joseph: 15.2
Belinelli: 15.9
Baynes: 11.5
Bonner: 2.1

Tim Duncan:
Total Mins: 1299
On Court: OffRtg: 102.6 DefRtg: 98.7 = NetRtg: 3.9
Total Mins: 1050
Off Court: OffRtg: 105.0 DefRtg: 101.3 = NetRtg: 3.7
ON-OFF = 0.2

Duos: NetRtg
Parker: 0.3
Green: 4.8
Leonard: 9.4
Splitter: -2.0
Ginobili: 6.0
Diaw: 6.5
Mills: 19.5
Joseph: 4.4
Belinelli: -4.4
Baynes: 5.3
Bonner: 3.3


Tiago Splitter:
Total Mins: 490
On Court: OffRtg: 104.5 DefRtg: 99.5 = NetRtg: 5.0
Total Mins: 1859
Off Court: OffRtg: 103.5 DefRtg: 100.0 = NetRtg: 3.5
ON-OFF = 1.5

Duos: NetRtg
Parker: -6.1
Green: 4.3
Leonard: 9.6
Duncan: -2.0
Ginobili: 9.5
Diaw: 14.0
Mills: 12.1
Joseph: 15.3
Belinelli: -6.9
Baynes: 13.7
Bonner: 11.6


Manu Ginobili:
Total Mins: 1034
On Court: OffRtg: 106.1 DefRtg: 98.2 = NetRtg: 7.9
Total Mins: 1315
Off Court: OffRtg: 101.8 DefRtg: 101.2 = NetRtg: 0.6
ON-OFF = 7.3

Duos: NetRtg
Parker: 1.2
Green: 11.6
Leonard: 10.8
Duncan: 6.0
Splitter: 9.5
Diaw: 7.7
Mills: 12.1
Joseph: 15.4
Belinelli: 1.3
Baynes: 7.8
Bonner: 6.7


Boris Diaw:
Total Mins: 1198
On Court: OffRtg: 104.1 DefRtg: 99.2 = NetRtg: 4.9
Total Mins: 1151
Off Court: OffRtg: 103.3 DefRtg: 100.5 = NetRtg: 2.7
ON-OFF = 2.2

Duos: NetRtg
Parker: -0.8
Green: 6.2
Leonard: 10.9
Duncan: 6.5
Splitter: 14.0
Ginobili: 7.7
Mills: 7.9
Joseph: 7.1
Belinelli: -0.5
Baynes: 4.5
Bonner: -5.3


Patty Mills:
Total Mins: 342
On Court: OffRtg: 101.9 DefRtg: 91.0 = NetRtg: 10.9
Total Mins: 2007
Off Court: OffRtg: 104.0 DefRtg: 101.4 = NetRtg: 2.6
ON-OFF = 8.3

Duos: NetRtg
Parker: -0.2
Green: 16.0
Leonard: 11.0
Duncan: 19.5
Splitter: 12.1
Ginobili: 12.1
Diaw: 7.9
Joseph: 15.4
Belinelli: 5.8
Baynes: 1.8
Bonner: 17.5

Cory Joseph:
Total Mins: 1095
On Court: OffRtg: 104.3 DefRtg: 98.5 = NetRtg: 5.8
Total Mins: 1254
Off Court: OffRtg: 103.2 DefRtg: 101.0 = NetRtg: 2.2
ON-OFF = 3.6

Duos: NetRtg
Parker: -7.2
Green: 7.3
Leonard: 15.2
Duncan: 4.4
Splitter: 15.3
Ginobili: 15.4
Diaw: 7.1
Mills: 15.4
Belinelli: -3.6
Baynes: 5.7
Bonner: 9.7

Marco Belinelli:
Total Mins: 690
On Court: OffRtg: 105.5 DefRtg: 107.4 = NetRtg: -1.9
Total Mins: 1659
Off Court: OffRtg: 102.9 DefRtg: 96.7 = NetRtg: 6.2
ON-OFF = -8.1

Duos: NetRtg
Parker: -20.4
Green: 1.3
Leonard: 15.9
Duncan: -4.4
Splitter: -6.9
Ginobili: 1.3
Diaw: -0.5
Mills: 5.8
Joseph: -3.6
Baynes: -6.9
Bonner: 0.2

Aron Baynes:
Total Mins: 635
On Court: OffRtg: 102.6 DefRtg: 100.2 = NetRtg: 2.4
Total Mins: 1714
Off Court: OffRtg: 104.1 DefRtg: 99.7 = NetRtg: 4.4
ON-OFF = -2.0

Duos: NetRtg
Parker: -0.9
Green: 7.8
Leonard: 11.5
Duncan: 5.3
Splitter: 13.7
Ginobili: 7.8
Diaw: 4.5
Mills: 1.8
Joseph: 5.7
Belinelli: -6.9
Bonner: -5.8

Matt Bonner:
Total Mins: 684
On Court: OffRtg: 104.4 DefRtg: 100.9 = NetRtg: 3.4
Total Mins: 1665
Off Court: OffRtg: 103.4 DefRtg: 99.4 = NetRtg: 4.0
ON-OFF = -0.6

Duos: NetRtg
Parker: -6.0
Green: 5.9
Leonard: 2.1
Duncan: 3.3
Splitter: 11.6
Ginobili: 6.7
Diaw: -5.3
Mills: 17.5
Joseph: 9.7
Belinelli: 0.2
Baynes: -5.8



Overall lets look at Parker's duos (since this thread is about him) and see whether there is a net positive or negative:
Leonard: +2.0
Duncan: -1.3
Manu: -3.5
Diaw: -4.5
Green: -7.4
Mills: -9.3
Splitter: -15.2
CoJo: -18.2
Marco: -36.9


Kawhi and Parker is the only net positive duo for Parker (Kawhi increases Parker's numbers more than Parker hurts Kawhi).

I'll look at the other duos later if I have time.

Pauleta14
02-02-2015, 04:46 PM
What's your point??

That Tony is having a bad season? You need stats for that? :lol

dabom
02-02-2015, 04:49 PM
What's your point??

That Tony is having a bad season? You need stats for that? :lol

:lol

Malik Hairston
02-02-2015, 06:48 PM
Those stats are skewed, since they're unadjusted..

Leonard's numbers are better with Parker since they both returned from injuries around the same time, tbh..

rasuo214
02-02-2015, 07:53 PM
Alright here's all the other net duos:

Tony Parker:
Leonard: +2.0
Duncan: -1.3
Baynes: -2.2
Ginobili: -3.5
Diaw: -4.5
Green: -7.4
Mills: -9.3
Bonner: -13.4
Splitter: -15.2
Joseph: -18.2
Belinelli: -36.9

Danny Green:
Mills: +15.7
Ginobili: +9.9
Baynes: +7.8
Leonard: +6.6
Joseph: +3.4
Bonner: +3.0
Diaw: +2.1
Duncan: +0.3
Belinelli: -0.9
Splitter: -1.8
Parker: -7.4

Kawhi Leonard:
Belinelli: +24.3
Joseph: +15.2
Baynes: +11.2
Diaw: +7.5
Green: +6.6
Duncan: +5.5
Splitter: +4.8
Ginobili: +4.3
Parker: +2.0
Mills: +1.7
Bonner: -8.6

Tim Duncan:
Mills: +24.2
Leonard: +5.5
Baynes: +4.3
Diaw: +4.2
Green: +0.3
Ginobili: +0.2
Bonner: -0.7
Joseph: -0.9
Parker: -1.3
Belinelli: -10.8
Splitter: -12.9

Tiago Splitter:
Baynes: +20.0
Joseph: +19.8
Diaw: +18.1
Bonner: +14.8
Mills: +8.3
Ginobili: +6.1
Leonard: +4.8
Green: -1.8
Duncan: -12.9
Parker: -15.2
Belinelli: -16.9

Manu Ginobili:
Joseph: +17.1
Green: +9.9
Splitter: +6.1
Mills: +5.4
Baynes: +5.3
Leonard: +4.3
Diaw: +2.6
Bonner: +2.1
Duncan: +0.2
Belinelli: -3.4
Parker: -3.5

Boris Diaw:
Splitter: +18.1
Leonard: +7.5
Duncan: +4.2
Joseph: +3.5
Ginobili: +2.6
Green: +2.1
Baynes: +1.7
Mills: 0
Belinelli: -4.0
Parker: -4.5
Bonner: -18.9

Patty Mills:
Duncan: +24.2
Bonner: +20.7
Green: +15.7
Joseph: +14.1
Splitter: +8.3
Ginobili: +5.4
Belinelli: +2.6
Leonard: +1.7
Diaw: 0
Parker: -9.3
Baynes: -9.7

Cory Joseph:
Splitter: +19.8
Ginobili: +17.1
Leonard: +15.2
Mills: +14.1
Bonner: 10.2
Diaw: +3.5
Green: +3.4
Baynes: 3.2
Duncan: -0.9
Belinelli: -11.1
Parker: -18.2

Marco Belinelli:
Leonard: +24.3
Mills: +2.6
Green: -0.9
Bonner: -1.1
Ginobili: -3.4
Diaw: -4.0
Duncan: -10.8
Joseph: -11.1
Baynes: -14.3
Splitter: -16.9
Parker: -36.9

Aron Baynes:
Splitter: 20.0
Leonard: 11.2
Green: 7.8
Ginobili: 5.3
Duncan: 4.3
Joseph: 3.2
Diaw: 1.7
Parker: -2.2
Mills: -9.7
Belinelli: -14.3
Bonner: -17.4

Matt Bonner:

Mills: 20.7
Splitter: 14.8
Joseph: 10.2
Green: 3.0
Ginobili: 2.1
Duncan: -0.7
Belinelli: -1.1
Leonard: -8.6
Parker: -13.4
Baynes: -17.4
Diaw: -18.9

rasuo214
02-02-2015, 07:57 PM
Those stats are skewed, since they're unadjusted..

Leonard's numbers are better with Parker since they both returned from injuries around the same time, tbh..


Leonard isn't better (as you can see in the first portion every player is worse with Parker), it ends up being a net positive because Parker is so much better with Leonard that it negates the negative impact on Leonard. I posted the rest of the net duos and Leonard's best PG duo is with CoJo. Kawhi is also 1 of 2 players that make Marco worth playing (the other being CoJo). Kawhi is the only player on the team with a net positive duo with all of the players I looked at.

apalisoc_9
02-02-2015, 08:08 PM
Basically kawhi makes everyone better..

Brunodf
02-02-2015, 08:21 PM
Holy Shit :wow Duncan +Mills :wow

rasuo214
02-02-2015, 08:54 PM
Basically kawhi makes everyone better..

Kawhi, Manu and Patty (at least for the players I looked at, maybe I'll add Baynes and Bonner only players with 15+ mins that I didn't look at).

The first numbers show that all. The Net numbers show that Kawhi is the only one that ends up with a net positive with all of the duos. For example Manu may make Marco better but Manu is so much worse playing with Marco that it ends up being a net negative.

Prose
02-03-2015, 12:49 AM
tony played like 3 years straight no breaks. He is just dipping in form which should be expected. heck duncan and manu have gone through this too. He can still recover but he is dealing with an aging body and needs to adapt

ElNono
02-03-2015, 01:32 AM
tony played like 3 years straight no breaks. He is just dipping in form which should be expected. heck duncan and manu have gone through this too. He can still recover but he is dealing with an aging body and needs to adapt

I thought he took the whole summer off?

rasuo214
02-03-2015, 02:21 AM
Updated with Baynes and Bonner and it looks like I found Kawhi's achilles' heel. Matt Bonner.

Johnny RIngo
02-03-2015, 11:53 AM
tony played like 3 years straight no breaks. He is just dipping in form which should be expected. heck duncan and manu have gone through this too. He can still recover but he is dealing with an aging body and needs to adapt

Dipping in form? He's been shitty the last two years(harlem posted the numbers). The injury excuse doesn't really cut it when he's been under-performing for a while now. And people have to stop latching onto that "Duncan and Manu also had their low points" BS. Duncan in 2011 and Manu in 2013 were nowhere near as bad as Tony right now. Physically, they weren't at their best but their impact was still pretty damn good. Tony's a trainwreck, in comparison.

2011 Duncan:

http://s5.postimg.org/vyirs4j9z/2011_Duncan.png

2013 Manu:

http://s5.postimg.org/7jajr2kd3/2013_Manu.png

2015 Parker:

http://s5.postimg.org/3o75oi17b/2015_Parker.png

Perry Mason
02-03-2015, 04:21 PM
Dipping in form? He's been shitty the last two years(harlem posted the numbers). The injury excuse doesn't really cut it when he's been under-performing for a while now. And people have to stop latching onto that "Duncan and Manu also had their low points" BS. Duncan in 2011 and Manu in 2013 were nowhere near as bad as Tony right now. Physically, they weren't at their best but their impact was still pretty damn good. Tony's a trainwreck, in comparison.

2011 Duncan:

http://s5.postimg.org/vyirs4j9z/2011_Duncan.png

2013 Manu:

http://s5.postimg.org/7jajr2kd3/2013_Manu.png

2015 Parker:

http://s5.postimg.org/3o75oi17b/2015_Parker.png


He has not been "shitty" the past 2 years. It varies by the algorithm used, but even Tony's RPM for the 2014 season only puts him around the bottom of the top 50 players in the NBA (prior-informed RAPM has him at 12). That is not "shitty". If you exclude the 2 months where he played injured, he is up in the 20's or 30's.

Clearly, he had lost step from 2013, but it was equally possible to surmise it was fatigue. And when you watch the games, game to game, you saw inconsistency more than overall decline.

The story was the same in the 2014 playoffs. I already posted the statistics. Harlem's moron approach should just be ignored.

2015 has shown that TP is still struggling. The only reasonable view is to wait it out and see if it is permanent and how TP adjusts his game to account for age and injury. I suspect TP will recover some, perhaps to the 2014 level, but will not be the 2012/2013 whirling dervish anymore.

Walton Buys Off Me
02-03-2015, 04:25 PM
People here need to lay off Tony.

He'll be there when we need him, bank it.

Go watch game 7 vs Dallas last year.....

dabom
02-03-2015, 04:33 PM
People here need to lay off Tony.

He'll be there when we need him, bank it.

Go watch game 7 vs Dallas last year.....

He is always there when we need him.