What's Worse.. Seahawks Play-Call, or 6?

[BatManu20]

The Championship Trophy is in your hands..


All you have to do is hand it off to the best RB in league, who's been dominating the Defense all day long. You have 40 seconds left, a timeout, and 3 tries to run it ONE yard with said RB, to win your second straight Super Bowl..


Not a Seahawks fan (thankfully), but that that will go down as THEE worst play-call of all time imo... under the circumstances.


So it got me thinking: What feeling is worse, what we went through with 6? Or Seahawks fans are feeling right now.

We at least had a chance to redeem ourselves, and imo it's harder to make it to the Super Bowl than it is the NBA Finals. But they also won it last year too. This is a tough call.

What say you?

[Cry Havoc]

Pretty equal, honestly. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory at the highest apex of the sport on the grandest stage is absolutely brutal. No two ways about it.

Doubt the Seahawks win next year, so probably that is worse. The Spurs avenged their heartbreak in the most incredible way possible.

[justinandimcool]

Seahawks play was worse, but Spurs probably felt worse because we had the lead, and we didn't win the year before and we thought we wasted our last chance. Seattle is still young.

[KL2]

6.

They had Lynch (Leonard) the whole time, instead went with Parker (Wilson) lmao.

[dabom]

they never had the lead. we did.

[Kool Bob Love]

they never had the lead. we did.

Up 24-14. I'm gonna say Spurs 6 but the Hawks play is a close second. I'll be rooting for them next season.

[Kawhi]

they never had the lead. we did.

They were up by 10 to start the quarter

[InRareForm]

Seahawks play is worse.

It's about a 97-98% chance lynch gets 1 yard in 2-3 tries.

[BatManu20]

they never had the lead. we did.


They entered the qtr up 10 (24-14).

Plus, it's different in the NFL. If Seattle had given up the 1-yard run to lose the SB, it wouldn't even be a comparison.

But, when you're 1-yard away with 40 sec and a timeout left, with the best RB in the league, who's been dominating the Pats D all day long, and you decide to randomly throw it and it;s an INT..? That's just an unbelievably heartbreaking way to lose a Super Bowl.

[Twisted_Dawg]

The Championship Trophy is in your hands..


All you have to do is hand it off to the best RB in league, who's been dominating the Defense all day long. You have 40 seconds left, a timeout, and 3 tries to run it ONE yard with said RB, to win your second straight Super Bowl..


Not a Seahawks fan (thankfully), but that that will go down as THEE worst play-call of all time imo... under the circumstances.


So it got me thinking: What feeling is worse, what we went through with 6? Or Seahawks fans are feeling right now.

We at least had a chance to redeem ourselves, and imo it's harder to make it to the Super Bowl than it is the NBA Finals. But they also won it last year too. This is a tough call.

What say you?

I was thinking the same thing while driving home from a party. It's fucking brutal to have a championship ripped out of your hands by some stupid coaching. Pete Carrol had headphones on and why he didn't over rule that called pass play from the coordinator is shocking.

Any other instances where a coach blew a championship in any sport like Popovich and Carrol just did?

[ThaBigFundamental21]

I think 6 was worse given the context. At the time there was the doubt that the aging Spurs could get back and the fact the Spurs actually had what seemed an insurmountable lead. Everything literally had to go wrong for San Antonio to even give Miami a chance and it did. Seattle was trying to come from behind and came up short. Plus Seattle is young.

[timtonymanu]

Meh, Seahawks fans can watch last year's run to ease the pain. We didn't get that luxury after 2013. :lol

[rogues]

Up 24-14. I'm gonna say Spurs 6 but the Hawks play is a close second. I'll be rooting for them next season.
You rooted for them all year long though..

[spurraider21]

seahawks imo. whats the fear of calling a run play? getting stuffed? then you have 3rd and 1 and 4th and 1...

[Trainwreck2100]

6

[Spurs 4 The Win]

I think 6 was worse given the context. At the time there was the doubt that the aging Spurs could get back and the fact the Spurs actually had what seemed an insurmountable lead. Everything literally had to go wrong for San Antonio to even give Miami a chance and it did. Seattle was trying to come from behind and came up short. Plus Seattle is young.

Seattle's was worse hands down, they had it won and blew it, at least the spurs had another shot in game 7. This was inexplicable, everyone thought the game was over.

[timtonymanu]

I'm definitely picking the Seahawks though.

The Spurs still had an OT and Game 7 to redeem themselves. Miami was just better that year.

Seahawks literally had that game, more so than we did.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

I'm definitely picking the Seahawks though.

The Spurs still had an OT and Game 7 to redeem themselves. Miami was just better that year.

Seahawks literally had that game, more so than we did.

WRONG

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Meh, Seahawks fans can watch last year's run to ease the pain. We didn't get that luxury after 2013. :lol

Kinda my thoughts. They rang last year. It softens the blow.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Kinda my thoughts. They rang last year. It softens the blow.

Naw, cuz you couldve been back2back and to come that close and blow it... That would kill me

[justinandimcool]

You rang last year and might ring next year if you're Seattle. Sucks but it's more like .4 given context. After 6 and 7 everyone thought Spurs were done

[Mugen]

Who cares, Spurs got 5 tbh....

[Brunodf]

That was Gregg Popovich sitting Duncan for the last rebound in game 6 esque tbh

[cjw]

Seahawks play is worse.

It's about a 97-98% chance lynch gets 1 yard in 2-3 tries.

You'd think so, but Pats D is pretty stellar. Barnwell tweeted that Seahawks win % was something like 60-65% on 2nd and goal. The Heat's had to be under 5% when Lebron bricked the first of his two missed threes.

This one had the yo-yo effect, whereas 6 (a) didn't eliminate the Spurs and (b) Spurs actually had a possession to win game in regulation and still had overtime. So while shocking, it didn't shut the door. In terms of expected win %, 6 was worse. In every other way, Sea-NE was.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

You'd think so, but Pats D is pretty stellar. Barnwell tweeted that Seahawks win % was something like 60-65% on 2nd and goal. The Heat's had to be under 5% when Lebron bricked the first of his two missed threes.

This one had the yo-yo effect, whereas 6 (a) didn't eliminate the Spurs and (b) Spurs actually had a possession to win game in regulation and still had overtime. So while shocking, it didn't shut the door. In terms of expected win %, 6 was worse. In every other way, Sea-NE was.

I dont need a stats geek to tell me the % chance the seahawks had of winning that game.

Lets be clear, it was 100 FUCKING PERCENT IF THEY RUN HIM. PERIOD END OF STORY.

[cjw]

Had Seattle scored and NE burned so much clock (without calling a TO), how much of a goat would Coach Belichick had been? Probably 30-40 seconds lost for Brady to get them to FG range. INT probably doesn't happen with a TO though as they would have thought about it longer and called a run.

[cjw]

I dont need a stats geek to tell me the % chance the seahawks had of winning that game.

Lets be clear, it was 100 FUCKING PERCENT IF THEY RUN HIM. PERIOD END OF STORY.

It was 100% once the ball left Allen's hand too. Trust me!

I agree that it was probably higher than that 60-65% but not 100%. Probably 75% with a shot that Pats get ball back and tie / send to OT. Pats stacked the box and Seattle's OC saw something in the defense. Instead, he saw the end to any head coaching gig he'll ever have a chance for.

GB definitely had a higher shot of winning at the time of the onside kick.

[InRareForm]

You'd think so, but Pats D is pretty stellar. Barnwell tweeted that Seahawks win % was something like 60-65% on 2nd and goal.

That seems inaccurate. Regardless of how good patriots D is, a hyped up beast mode is getting that yard, I am sorry

[Malik Hairston]

Statistically, 6 was much worse, but just from a logical standpoint, the Seahawks play was worse..

Lynch is the best player on the team, he only needs 1 yard, but you put it in the hands of your game-managing QB? :lmao

Not only was the playcall shitty, but Wilson throwing an INT at that point is a historical choke job, much worse than the Spurs' missing Free Throws..

[Spurs 4 The Win]

It was 100% once the ball left Allen's hand too. Trust me!

I agree that it was probably higher than that 60-65% but not 100%. Probably 75% with a shot that Pats get ball back and tie / send to OT. Pats stacked the box and Seattle's OC saw something in the defense. Instead, he saw the end to any head coaching gig he'll ever have a chance for.

GB definitely had a higher shot of winning at the time of the onside kick.

Dude, Im gonna call bullshit on your percentages. When the Heat had it cut to 3 with 15 seconds or whatever, I guarantee the odds of that game were drastically different than when we were up 5 with 25 seconds. And if you think the odds of Lynch getting in the end zone were less than 75% then you need some serious help.

[ducks]

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/2/1/7961649/seahawks-players-reaction-final-play-call-super-bowl-2015

[cd98]

Spurs loss is way worse. Sure Seattle OC blew the last call. Spurs had to have like 7 things go wrong to lose Game 6. And all of it happened. Plus the Spurs had the lead. Seattle was still behind when they turned the ball over and required a lucky play to get as close as they did.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Spurs loss is way worse. Sure Seattle OC blew the last call. Spurs had to have like 7 things go wrong to lose Game 6. And all of it happened. Plus the Spurs had the lead. Seattle was still behind when they turned the ball over and required a lucky play to get as close as they did.

Yeah Tony going fucking beast mode and hitting an unbeleivable 3 over Lebron and getting steals left and right and pretty much single handedly winning the game wasnt lucky :rolleyes

[Sean Cagney]

Pretty equal, honestly. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory at the highest apex of the sport on the grandest stage is absolutely brutal. No two ways about it.

Doubt the Seahawks win next year, so probably that is worse. The Spurs avenged their heartbreak in the most incredible way possible.
That is the only thing that made it right, who the Spurs went through and who they beat for the title, same team and killed them to drown the sorrow of 6.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

That is the only thing that made it right, who the Spurs went through and who they beat for the title, same team and killed them to drown the sorrow of 6.
And based off how we look this year I wouldnt be surprised if we didnt win it in 2014 if we had won it in 2013, so in my opinion, we made up for the loss 100%

[Cloud786]

562098925574692864

[jsandiego]

Dude, Im gonna call bullshit on your percentages. When the Heat had it cut to 3 with 15 seconds or whatever, I guarantee the odds of that game were drastically different than when we were up 5 with 25 seconds. And if you think the odds of Lynch getting in the end zone were less than 75% then you need some serious help.

1. On SportsCenter they said that Lynch had 5 carries all season from the 1yd line -- and only scored once.

2. Time was winding down. If they pass on 2nd down, they stop the clock, which lets them run on 3rd down and use their last time out to stop the clock. If they had run on 2nd down unsuccessfully, they have to burn their last time out and they're essentially forced to throw on 3rd and 4th downs. The Pats CB had great game preparation and just made an outstanding play.

6 was worse. I don't know how it gets any worse. Thank God for 2014. 5 made it all worth it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It was second down and it was four down territory. The play call being bad is entirely overblown. Wilson made a shitty read and that ball should have never been thrown.

[Malik Hairston]

It was second down and it was four down territory. The play call being bad is entirely overblown. Wilson made a shitty read and that ball should have never been thrown.

Yep..I do think the call was poor, but I don't know why people aren't discussing the QB actually throwing the INT:lol..

[baseline bum]

Yep..I do think the call was poor, but I don't know why people aren't discussing the QB actually throwing the INT:lol..

Because you blame the parent when a toddler gets a gun from under the bed and shoots his sister. Struggle didn't know any better.

[313]

After ray Allen hit the shot, Tony got a pretty good look before the buzzer. Then OT, the game 7.for Seattle, it was just over. Bang. They lost.

Seattle hands down.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

I think it comes down to whether they get redemption or not. Spurs did. We dont know with them yet.

[313]

Because you blame the parent when a toddler gets a gun from under the bed and shoots his sister. Struggle didn't know any better.
:lol

[Cloud786]

Yep..I do think the call was poor, but I don't know why people aren't discussing the QB actually throwing the INT:lol..

Well if you watched the game, you would know that it was a pick play with Kearse screening Butler which would've freed up Lockette on the quick slant. However, Kearse got jammed by the DB which allowed Butler to step in front of the receiver for the int. Just bad execution on Seattle's part so it's not all Wilson's fault. It's a quick read and quick pass assuming the receiver's man would get screened off which would leave him open. Just poor execution so you can't fault Wilson completely for the throw.

[Malik Hairston]

Well if you watched the game, you would know that it was a pick play with Kearse screening Butler which would've freed up Lockette on the quick slant. However, Kearse got jammed by the DB which allowed Butler to step in front of the receiver for the int. Just bad execution on Seattle's part so it's not all Wilson's fault. It's a quick read and quick pass assuming the receiver's man would get screened off which would leave him open. Just poor execution so you can't fault Wilson completely for the throw.

Why is any of that relevant?

I didn't say it was completely Wilson's fault, I'm just puzzled as to why nobody is putting any blame on him, when that's how it generally works in the NFL..

There's little logic being utilized when allocating credit and blame to NFL QBs..a guy like Romo can throw a pass and is WR can drop it into the DB's hands, but Romo will receive all the blame..that's just how it works at the QB position in the NFL..

So, I don't know why Carroll is receiving 100% of the blame, while the QB threw the game-ending INT from the 1 isn't receiving any..

[Cloud786]

Why is any of that relevant?

I didn't say it was completely Wilson's fault, I'm just puzzled as to why nobody is putting any blame on him, when that's how it generally works in the NFL..

There's little logic being utilized when allocating credit and blame to NFL QBs..a guy like Romo can throw a pass and is WR can drop it into the DB's hands, but Romo will receive all the blame..that's just how it works at the QB position in the NFL..

So, I don't know why Carroll is receiving 100% of the blame, while the QB threw the game-ending INT from the 1 isn't receiving any..

It's relevant because in that situation, that's the throw he was suppose to make regardless of what the DB did so it's not like he made a throw he shouldn't have made. You can't really blame him for making that throw although he could've thrown it closer to the WR's body.

No one is blaming him because everyone is shocked more at the play call rather than the execution of it. When has a QB received all the blame for a blatant drop made by a WR?

I wouldn't say Carroll is receiving 100% of the blame. The OC Bevell made the call and Carroll is covering for him by taking the blame. People are more upset about the play call which frees some of the blame on Wilson.

[HI-FI]

i'm biased but I think that Seahawks play was worse.

they literally got a gift from God before with that catch, then sharted it away in such spectacular fashion. Fuck I hate the seahawks and I was gutted by that.


Meh, Seahawks fans can watch last year's run to ease the pain. We didn't get that luxury after 2013. :lol
good point.

still once Wilson gets paid, their window could be closed.

[wildcardX]

Seahawks. Lost the game on one bad play call, and they had no other chances.

The Spurs didn't lose game 6 on one play in the closing minutes. Make a free throw, defend better, grab a rebound, even maybe keep Duncan in the game. All could've changed the outcome of game 6. Plus they still could have won in overtime and, after all that they still had another chance to win in game 7. Allen's shot was not even a game winner, the Spurs still had a series lead going into overtime. They had their chances to win overtime or game 7 but failed. I say no excuses, no regrets.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Why is any of that relevant?

I didn't say it was completely Wilson's fault, I'm just puzzled as to why nobody is putting any blame on him, when that's how it generally works in the NFL..

There's little logic being utilized when allocating credit and blame to NFL QBs..a guy like Romo can throw a pass and is WR can drop it into the DB's hands, but Romo will receive all the blame..that's just how it works at the QB position in the NFL..

So, I don't know why Carroll is receiving 100% of the blame, while the QB threw the game-ending INT from the 1 isn't receiving any..

Lets flip the script, Lets say the Cowboys were in that spot and Tony threw a pick.... The reaction would be 180 what it is for Wilson

[024]

Well 6 was more heartbreaking but the Seahawks play was one of the worst decisions in the history of super bowls.

[dabom]

Fuck this thread. So fucking depressing. I can feel their pain. :cry

[Sean Cagney]

And based off how we look this year I wouldnt be surprised if we didnt win it in 2014 if we had won it in 2013, so in my opinion, we made up for the loss 100%

Yes, 100% agreed.

Spurs loss is way worse. Sure Seattle OC blew the last call. Spurs had to have like 7 things go wrong to lose Game 6. And all of it happened. Plus the Spurs had the lead. Seattle was still behind when they turned the ball over and required a lucky play to get as close as they did.

Seattle and football fans would disagree the Spurs loss is way worse, but of course us as fans would say that. It was a choke and they blew a title yes but at the one yard line for the win is just as bad if not worse, then the play calling when you have BEAST MODE? Tim sat out situations like that most of the year as Pop said and right or not he did it for a reason again and it backfired! The OC for the Seahawks though said they were going to run the next play and just wanted to burn some clock? Well if Lynch gets stopped you burn some damn clock and then call a TO then have two more plays to run it in! I disagree on way worse but it's subjective.

[Sean Cagney]

Seahawks. Lost the game on one bad play call, and they had no other chances.

The Spurs didn't lose game 6 on one play in the closing minutes. Make a free throw, defend better, grab a rebound, even maybe keep Duncan in the game. All could've changed the outcome of game 6. Plus they still could have won in overtime and, after all that they still had another chance to win in game 7. Allen's shot was not even a game winner, the Spurs still had a series lead going into overtime. They had their chances to win overtime or game 7 but failed. I say no excuses, no regrets.

Sounds alot like the Packers loss more so honestly than this Superbowl with all that went wrong and it went to OT, eerily similar in fact......



Fuck this thread. So fucking depressing. I can feel their pain. :cry

We all can, but #5 has since eased that pain bigtime. That night though and the whole week and summer I felt deflated after that loss, so yes I know fully how they feel except they have no game 7 to try and win it (Although I knew it was over after 6 there was still a small shot to win it).

[Ice009]

I'm definitely picking the Seahawks though.

The Spurs still had an OT and Game 7 to redeem themselves. Miami was just better that year.

Seahawks literally had that game, more so than we did.

The Seahawks loss is a little worse because they didn't get an overtime or another game to play.

And no way were Miami better. Spurs proved they were the better team. They handed them the trophy. Spurs gave it away (thanks in part to Pop's stupid coaching starting the 4th quarter with a scrub lineup and then pulling Tim). If there was any doubt they were better, they proved it the following season. I won't ever say Miami was the better team. They won it, but they weren't the better team.

[cd021]

I'm definitely picking the Seahawks though.

The Spurs still had an OT and Game 7 to redeem themselves. Miami was just better that year.

Seahawks literally had that game, more so than we did.

Not a homer take but the Spur were the superior team. Parker, Ginobili, Splitter, & Neal were all inconsistent or flat out bad not to mention Diaw was still 1.0.

[cd021]

Seahawks loss is far worse imo. Spurs had OT to recover plus Game 7. Seattle had a 10 point lead in the 4th and had the ball on the the 3 with two plays remaining, and only trailing by four with 20 seconds remaining. Terrible play calling stopped the repeat.

[tmtcsc]

The Seahawks play was worse. Miami had to make two 3 pointers to even put the game in to O.T. Seattle completely shit the bed with the absolute worst, riskiest play call I've ever seen in a Super Bowl, or any other game for that matter. Just awful. I don't give a damn about either team, didn't have any money on the game but felt terrible for the Seahawks fans. Someone needs to get fired.

[8FOR!3]

Pretty equal, honestly. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory at the highest apex of the sport on the grandest stage is absolutely brutal. No two ways about it.

Doubt the Seahawks win next year, so probably that is worse. The Spurs avenged their heartbreak in the most incredible way possible.

At the same time, as a fan I think it sucked more at the time bc we had no idea we were gonna have another shot at the title after we lost. The Seahawks had already gotten that first Super Bowl last year.

[cjw]

Dude, Im gonna call bullshit on your percentages. When the Heat had it cut to 3 with 15 seconds or whatever, I guarantee the odds of that game were drastically different than when we were up 5 with 25 seconds. And if you think the odds of Lynch getting in the end zone were less than 75% then you need some serious help.

It never was more than ~75% win percentage down the stretch: http://live.advancednflstats.com/

It's not what I "think". It's a computer model that runs off tons of data. I was originally just quoting Barnwell who was using a different source:
?@billbarnwell: Seahawks win expectancy was 64% before the INT. https://t.co/GA12FOJLiG

Anyway, with 25 seconds and only one TO, Seattle would have risked having only two good plays and a rushed attempt on 4th down with three running plays. They took the option of passing on 2nd instead of 3rd/4th down hoping to catch the Pats off guard. Didn't work.

[Killakobe81]

Why is any of that relevant?

I didn't say it was completely Wilson's fault, I'm just puzzled as to why nobody is putting any blame on him, when that's how it generally works in the NFL..

There's little logic being utilized when allocating credit and blame to NFL QBs..a guy like Romo can throw a pass and is WR can drop it into the DB's hands, but Romo will receive all the blame..that's just how it works at the QB position in the NFL..

So, I don't know why Carroll is receiving 100% of the blame, while the QB threw the game-ending INT from the 1 isn't receiving any..

Im with Harlem. I am a Wilson apologist (i always seem to defend the unpopular guys on here) but I think it is bad read/throw. I get it was a "quick" play. And not much time to see it before you throw it ...and it being a "pocket pass" and him being short tough to get a clear view as he is throwing that pass. But if that was Stafford, Romo heck even Peyton the "choker" stuff would be thrown around ...but because Russ has a ring, is a well spoken black man who loves GOD (nothing wrong with that) he is not getting murdered only Pete and Bevell ...

I am convinced the majority of media and the common fan is full of shit ... and cant analyze any sport clearly ...

[TheGreatYacht]

6.

The game last night came down to 1 horrible play.

In Game 6, the coach fucked up not benching a certain player EIGHT times

[Raven]

the first one wins overwhelmingly. It's the perfect example of statpadding and trying to artificially create a star, costing a team a sb.

[cd98]

Yeah Tony going fucking beast mode and hitting an unbeleivable 3 over Lebron and getting steals left and right and pretty much single handedly winning the game wasnt lucky :rolleyes
LOL comparing Tony hitting a three pointer in a game to a guy going long, falling down, ball bouncing off his defender and player catching while the ball bobbled around in his hand.

[SpurSwag]

What's worse in terms of the collapse? The spurs situation, because the court was being roped off, the championship trophy was being brought in, and the spurs had a 5 point lead with 28 seconds. It was pretty much a fact that we had won already. The Seahawks still had work to do, and there were still things that could go wrong even if they had given it to Beast Mode. However, the Seahawks fucked up a lot more than the Spurs did. The Seahawks not getting this ring is completely their fault for just a horrible play call, whereas the Spurs just got really unlucky. I may be one of the few that don't think sitting Tim down on that play we needed a rebound was the worst decision consiering how slow he is closing out on shooters, the bigger mistake was not fouling bosh once he came down with the board but i don't blame our guys for not thinking 100% in the heat of that moment. The seahawks play was just stupid.

[Old School 44]

Seahawks. Sure maybe Wilson shouldn't have thrown it, but the play should have NEVER been called!Then to top it off, you get Carroll after the game trying to explain the call as a way to kill time? Huh??? Dumb and Dumber. If that's really what you wanted to do (and I don't advise it), have Lynch or Wilson run it into the line and fall down short of the goal line! In that situation, you try to score the first opportunity you get. Stop playing scared...score as quick as you can and let one of the top ranked defenses stop Brady for less than 30 seconds. If Brady gets them in FG range and they win, so be it.

[cjw]

Marshawn fumbled on ~1% of touches this year and throughout his career (with about half of those lost). That was the first INT on over 100 passes from inside the 1 all year. Given that there were only 25 seconds on the clock + 1 TO, Seattle knew it would be hard to get off three straight running plays so took the gamble on 2nd down.

Say what you want to about Harvin, but that pick has to go partly on Seattle's wide out. You can't let the corner get position on you there - worst case should be an incomplete. That's a play they really could have used him in the slot. This coming from a guy who lost a fantasy league years ago on a tiebreak when Harvin put up a donut.

My thoughts on expected win percentage were really to illustrate that MIA's expected win % was lower than NE's in that situation. Down four with 28 seconds to go, fouling an 80% FT shooter is much tougher than stuffing a team 2-3 times at the one. Had Seattle scored with 30+ seconds on the clock, New England still had a timeout or two and time to move down field for a FG.

[Beaverfuzz]

Seattle's was worse hands down, they had it won and blew it, at least the spurs had another shot in game 7. This was inexplicable, everyone thought the game was over.

This is the correct answer. Spurs did have another shot and couldn't finish it off.

[lefty]

6 was worse because my team lost

And Pete Carroll's fuck up allowed my Pats to win

And allowed me to give a new Avatar to Brazil


How do you like his new avy tbh ?

[Beaverfuzz]

Marshawn fumbled on ~1% of touches this year and throughout his career (with about half of those lost). That was the first INT on over 100 passes from inside the 1 all year. Given that there were only 25 seconds on the clock + 1 TO, Seattle knew it would be hard to get off three straight running plays so took the gamble on 2nd down.

Say what you want to about Harvin, but that pick has to go partly on Seattle's wide out. You can't let the corner get position on you there - worst case should be an incomplete. That's a play they really could have used him in the slot. This coming from a guy who lost a fantasy league years ago on a tiebreak when Harvin put up a donut.

My thoughts on expected win percentage were really to illustrate that MIA's expected win % was lower than NE's in that situation. Down four with 28 seconds to go, fouling an 80% FT shooter is much tougher than stuffing a team 2-3 times at the one. Had Seattle scored with 30+ seconds on the clock, New England still had a timeout or two and time to move down field for a FG.


Problem is, the corner didn't have a play on that ball when originally thrown...Wilson threw a bad ball that the corner had a good opportunity to get.

[313]

To put it in perspective, let's say it's game 7 of the NBA finals. Lebron just scored to put the Heat up 1 point, and there are 5 seconds left. Oh, but then the Heat fall asleep on defense and Kawhi gets behind the whole team. Timmy throws a perfect pass down court to Kawhi. HE RUNS, HE GOES UP FOR THE DUNK... and the ball slips out of his hand out of bounds. Time expires, and the Spurs lose the championship.

That would be the only NBA type equivalent I can think of :lol

[beirmeistr]

I think they are comparable in the sense that in each case, the team that lost was within seconds of winning a championship. Sure the Spurs had 1 more shot, but they were numb after the ending of game 6.
It speaks volumes about Pops skill that he kept the Spurs in revenge mode all of last season so that they could redeem themselves and take the trophy from their nemesis.

[EVAY]

Look, people (including the Spurs) love to moan abut 6 losing us the championship. But as others pointed out, we still had overtime and we still had game 7. We didn't get it done.

I think the Spurs have always had a tough time mentally getting over things. 2013-2014 season was a march because they didn't get it done in 6 overtime or in 7.

Normally, in a 7 game series, the one that wins 4 games is considered the best team. Maybe only mentally, but still.

[ginobilized]

Seahawks collapse was worse....they still had a slim chance before they mentally lost it. The offsides, the brawl, the ludicrous play calling is going to be much harder to recover from than 6.

It is a minor miracle that the Spurs were competitive in a Game 7 after that loss. I doubt the Seahawks see the Superbowl in 2016.

[TheGreatYacht]

Almost forgot about this :lmao 10 secs left... No timeout... Manu just wants to be your hero :(


http://youtu.be/Us9uVuW2yQc

[ElNono]

In Game 6, the coach fucked up not benching a certain player EIGHT times



http://youtu.be/Us9uVuW2yQc

He's benched on that video...

:lol

[ElNono]

I'm gonna go with the Seahawks too... that was a millisecond play, no 2nd chance possible. The Spurs had more opportunities after Game 6 and did not capitalize. For the Seahawks, that was it.

Sure, they were the defending champs, but it still sucks the whole season ends abruptly in that one play.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Almost forgot about this :lmao 10 secs left... No timeout... Manu just wants to be your hero :(


http://youtu.be/Us9uVuW2yQc

That was a total fucking foul, jesus

[Budkin]

Hard to compare them but it now lives in infamy with both 6 and the Rangers 2011 choke job. Situations where the title is all but won and then literally ripped from your hands.

[Budkin]

That was a total fucking foul, jesus

Wow that's the first time I've actually seen that replay since that night. Guess they didn't want the title won at the line.

[CGD]

Seahawks. They CHOSE not to make the right play call. So many random shit had to happen for Ray Allen's shot to go in.

[100%duncan]

6.

The game last night came down to 1 horrible play.

In Game 6, the coach fucked up not benching a certain player EIGHT times

Good thing he didn't make the same mistake in 2014 with Parker

[benstanfield]

Seahawks playcall wasn't even bad. Results-based thinking is often counterproductive. The people who thought pulling TD was a bad call have largely piped down seeing him try to guard 3pt shooters from last-second inbounds plays. Maybe Wilson or the receiver didn't execute, but the call was fine. I might have run the ball and then called a no-huddle slant route on 3rd, but the WR was open for the split second he should've been and the DB just made an all time great read. Anomalies happen. It's like getting a bad beat on the river in poker. If you always make the right call and it doesn't work in one big moment, that doesn't mean you made the wrong call. The guys who always make the right call no matter the result come out ahead in the long haul.

[ceperez]

The Championship Trophy is in your hands..


All you have to do is hand it off to the best RB in league, who's been dominating the Defense all day long. You have 40 seconds left, a timeout, and 3 tries to run it ONE yard with said RB, to win your second straight Super Bowl..


Not a Seahawks fan (thankfully), but that that will go down as THEE worst play-call of all time imo... under the circumstances.


So it got me thinking: What feeling is worse, what we went through with 6? Or Seahawks fans are feeling right now.

We at least had a chance to redeem ourselves, and imo it's harder to make it to the Super Bowl than it is the NBA Finals. But they also won it last year too. This is a tough call.

What say you?

(a) Seahawks had already won the Superbowl the previous year. This was just icing on the cake.
(b) They weren't winning yet when they got intercepted. They still had to score.

What happened to the Spurs was much worse.

Fortunately, they redeemed themselves.

[ceperez]

I'm gonna go with the Seahawks too... that was a millisecond play, no 2nd chance possible. The Spurs had more opportunities after Game 6 and did not capitalize. For the Seahawks, that was it.

Sure, they were the defending champs, but it still sucks the whole season ends abruptly in that one play.

The Seahawks were NOT winning when they lost. It is kind of like taking two free throws to win a game and missing both.

Different from winning with 6 seconds left and then losing. They were losing with 26 seconds left and they didn't execute.

[Seventyniner]

Seahawks playcall wasn't even bad. Results-based thinking is often counterproductive. The people who thought pulling TD was a bad call have largely piped down seeing him try to guard 3pt shooters from last-second inbounds plays. Maybe Wilson or the receiver didn't execute, but the call was fine. I might have run the ball and then called a no-huddle slant route on 3rd, but the WR was open for the split second he should've been and the DB just made an all time great read. Anomalies happen. It's like getting a bad beat on the river in poker. If you always make the right call and it doesn't work in one big moment, that doesn't mean you made the wrong call. The guys who always make the right call no matter the result come out ahead in the long haul.

:toast

[hater]

6 easily.

Seahawks was one bad play, one mistake.

6 was a series unfortunate events and lots of stupid fucking mistakes one after another. It was a complete chokejob

[ElNono]

The Seahawks were NOT winning when they lost. It is kind of like taking two free throws to win a game and missing both.

Different from winning with 6 seconds left and then losing. They were losing with 26 seconds left and they didn't execute.

Doesn't matter. They have the best back in the game, 1 yard away from the end zone, one time out and momentum. At that juncture, it was their game to lose, and they did.

[z0sa]

Seahawks playcall directly resulting in a botched title was WAY worse than benching Tim leading to a lucky bounce leading to a lucky corner 3.

[hater]

Seahawks playcall directly resulting in a botched title was WAY worse than benching Tim leading to a lucky bounce leading to a lucky corner 3.

there was a LOT more to it than "benching" Duncan in the last play

Thanks to Parker, we were up 5 with 50 secs to go. Missed free throws, missed rebounds, turnovers... WORST CHOKEJOB IN SPORTS HISTORY

[Johnny RIngo]

there was a LOT more to it than "benching" Duncan in the last play

Thanks to Parker, we were up 5 with 50 secs to go. Missed free throws, missed rebounds, turnovers... WORST CHOKEJOB IN SPORTS HISTORY

Let's not forget Tony getting outplayed by Mario Chalmers in games 6 and 7

[hater]

^ has nothing to do with the thread topic :rolleyes

[Diego20]

^ has nothing to do with the thread topic :rolleyes

too bad your post is in a new page :lmao

And yeah, TP choked in game 6 and 7

[Johnny RIngo]

^ has nothing to do with the thread topic :rolleyes

You said there was a lot of factors that went into us losing 2013. Tony getting outplayed by Chalmers is one of them.

[Chinook]

Six was more like the Mile High Miracle that by Ravens hung on Denver -- a mistake, sure, but also just a straight up good play by the other team. The Seahawks play was more like Ginobili fouling Dirk in 06 -- it was a bad play, but maybe you can see the reasoning, never mind, bad play.

[hater]

You said there was a lot of factors that went into us losing 2013. Tony getting outplayed by Chalmers is one of them.

you're off topic.

the thread is about the events that led to the chokejob in 6 as compared to seahawks chokejob.

Parker did NOT get outplayed by anyone in the last minute of the game. On the contrary. Parker carried us to the finish line. Everyone else crashed the bus. EPIC CHOKEJOB

[hater]

The Seahawks play was more like Ginobili fouling Dirk in 06 -- it was a bad play, but maybe you can see the reasoning, never mind, bad play.

truth nuke

[philldafunk]

Seahawks... Spurs had a chance to rebuttal in game 7.

[Johnny RIngo]

you're off topic.


the thread is about the events that led to the chokejob in 6 as compared to seahawks chokejob.

Parker did NOT get outplayed by anyone in the last minute of the game. On the contrary. Parker carried us to the finish line. Everyone else crashed the bus. EPIC CHOKEJOB


You stated that six was a result of a numerous factors. You listed a few of them but neglected Tony's poor play. I'm just reminding you. 26% shooting in game 6 from your first option sounds like a credible reason. An MVP candidate getting outplayed by Mario Chalmers is definitely notable as far as chokejobs go.

[hater]

Except he didn't. He took us home. Too bad we crashed the bus with our stupid turnovers, missed rebounds and missed FTs :pctoss

[Johnny RIngo]

Except he didn't. He took us home. Too bad we crashed the bus with our stupid turnovers, missed rebounds and missed FTs :pctoss

How many teams have won a title with their first option shooting sub-26% in the final two games? How many MVP candidates have gotten outplayed by Mario Chalmers? It's a credit to the rest of the team(Duncan, Leonard, Green) that they were able to take the defending champs to seven games with their point guard playing so terrible.

[hater]

How many teams have won a title with their first option shooting sub-26% in the final two games? How many MVP candidates have gotten outplayed by Mario Chalmers?

how many teams have won a Finals game when one of their teamates had 8 TURNOVERS in a game?

NEVER happened smh

[ElNono]

This is how you take your team home, tbh...

KdHsowOBYDs

Down 22-6, with some of the starters shitting the bed mightily, this dude put the team on his back and made the AT&T asplode. GOAT, tbh...

[Johnny RIngo]

how many teams have won a Finals game when one of their teamates had 8 TURNOVERS in a game?

NEVER happened smh

:lol blaming a role player

It's like Knicks fans throwing Starks under the bus when their first option(Ewing) was so terrible in the Finals.

[hater]

:lol role player or not 8 turnover is 8 turnovers. 1 turnover could possibly be a 4 point swing (or 5)

now multiply that x 8 = 32 point swing from our "role Player" :lol

[Johnny RIngo]

:lol role player or not 8 turnover is 8 turnovers. 1 turnover could possibly be a 4 point swing (or 5)

now multiply that x 8 = 32 point swing from our "role Player" :lol

Hard to win a title when your first option(and MVP candidate) is getting outplayed by a scrub on the opposing team:

Mario Chalmers games 6+7:
17 ppg on 50% FG

Tony Parker games 6+7:
14 ppg on 25% FG

[hater]

If you really think about it, Spurs were trailing by 20 as soon as Evita finished tying his shoes that day :lmao

[Diego20]

This is how you take your team home, tbh...

KdHsowOBYDs

Down 22-6, with some of the starters shitting the bed mightily, this dude put the team on his back and made the AT&T asplode. GOAT, tbh...

It doesn't matter, if you wanted hater to read it or watch that video, give up on it..

Kid doesn't care about anything but TP stuff.

:cry 25%FG game 5 and 26%FG game 6 but he made the last 2 shots of game 5 :cry

[Diego20]

:lol role player or not 8 turnover is 8 turnovers. 1 turnover could possibly be a 4 point swing (or 5)

now multiply that x 8 = 32 point swing from our "role Player" :lol

Missed shots not < turnovers

TP 6-23 is almost as bad as 8 turnovers.

[Brazil]

Doesn't matter. They have the best back in the game, 1 yard away from the end zone, one time out and momentum. At that juncture, it was their game to lose, and they did.

still Lynch was apparently 1-5 from one yard line so statistically this statement is questionable

[lefty]

:lol Pop Carroll
:lol Russell Wilsonobili

[Brazil]

Missed shots not < turnovers

TP 6-23 is almost as bad as 8 turnovers.

everything is on the almost tbh :lol

one turnover = 0 chance to score and 0 chance for a team mate to rebound the ball
one shoot = in that case 25% chance to go in and a chance for a team mate to rebound the ball

[Diego20]

everything is on the almost tbh :lol

one turnover = 0 chance to score and 0 chance for a team mate to rebound the ball
one shoot = in that case 25% chance to go in and a chance for a team mate to rebound the ball

tell that to TP tbh, he was sucking last two games yet he kept trying to go MVP mode. He could of tried pass the ball right? Manu tried that and that ended in turnovers.

[Brazil]

tell that to TP tbh, he was sucking last two games yet he kept trying to go MVP mode. He could of tried pass the ball right? Manu tried that and that ended in turnovers.

Tell him what ? that it is better to shoot at 25% than having a TO ? sure... no problem

what else ?

[ElNono]

still Lynch was apparently 1-5 from one yard line so statistically this statement is questionable

But they had a timeout. They could've gone back to Wilson after Lynch failed if they wanted to. The point is, you don't doubt who's your best option in that situation.

Ultimately, what happened is the worst. It could've easily been incomplete, or Struggle could've just thrown the ball away, call a timeout an play again. But the pick was absolutely devastating, the Lombardi gone away in a millisecond.

Not even a Seahawks fan here, but that was a tough, tough break.

[Brazil]

But they had a timeout. They could've gone back to Wilson after Lynch failed if they wanted to. The point is, you don't doubt who's your best option in that situation.

Ultimately, what happened is the worst. It could've easily been incomplete, or Struggle could've just thrown the ball away, call a timeout an play again. But the pick was absolutely devastating, the Lombardi gone away in a millisecond.

Not even a Seahawks fan here, but that was a tough, tough break.


Based on Harlem's stat, Lynch was 1-5 on rush at one yard line, on the other hand on the passing side there are X number of plays with 0 int. So statistically going for the pass is not that a dumb choice tbh if you don't score you waste time and def line up of Pats was set to defend a Lynch penetration... execution has been horrible tho and the rook made a great play

discussion here: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244034&page=2

[ElNono]

Based on Harlem's stat, Lynch was 1-5 on rush at one yard line, on the other hand on the passing side there are X number of plays with 0 int. So statistically going for the pass is not that a dumb choice tbh if you don't score you waste time and def line up of Pats was set to defend a Lynch penetration... execution has been horrible tho and the rook made a great play

discussion here: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244034&page=2

That is what I'm saying. It was a devastating outcome, considering they still had a timeout, were just 1 yard away and that catch right before the play was like the stars were aligned... not even a big fan of football here, but that ending was like holy crap...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's relevant because in that situation, that's the throw he was suppose to make regardless of what the DB did so it's not like he made a throw he shouldn't have made. You can't really blame him for making that throw although he could've thrown it closer to the WR's body.

No one is blaming him because everyone is shocked more at the play call rather than the execution of it. When has a QB received all the blame for a blatant drop made by a WR?

I wouldn't say Carroll is receiving 100% of the blame. The OC Bevell made the call and Carroll is covering for him by taking the blame. People are more upset about the play call which frees some of the blame on Wilson.

:lol so you think that Wilson wasn't supposed to make a read before throwing?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That is what I'm saying. It was a devastating outcome, considering they still had a timeout, were just 1 yard away and that catch right before the play was like the stars were aligned... not even a big fan of football here, but that ending was like holy crap...

Exactly, it was second down and four down territory.

What I think are people listened to Collinsworth bitch about it for 10 minutes to end the game and are not very good at critical thinking on their own. As an aside, Al Michaels taking sides and cheering and deadpanning side vs side on his calls is pretty damn unprofessional in my view.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

They had two time outs, it was second down and they were down 4. If they had run it and failed on second down they would have to called timeout. With one time out and the clock under 15 seconds, they would have had to pass on third down lest time run out before they can get play off for fourth.

They had three downs and only two timeouts.

Wilson by design or not ignored Butler flanking the pick and threw it anyway. Him getting a pass is stupid.

[Cloud786]

:lol so you think that Wilson wasn't supposed to make a read before throwing?

There isn't enough time to make a read. Lockette was the only option on that play and if executed properly, he was suppose to be open. 99/100 times that ball doesn't get intercepted. The ball could've been thrown better and probably towards his back shoulder rather than high and away but it has nothing to do with him making a read. By the time Butler starting breaking towards the ball, it was almost already out of the QB's hands. Give credit to Butler for making a great play on the ball.

[hater]

1) 8 Turnovers from our ballhandling SG
2) Two missed free throws in the final minute of regulation — one from Ginobili and the other from Kawhi
3) The offensive rebound off a badly missed three-point attempt from James that gave him a second try and — when he buried it deep on the left wing — cut the lead to two with 20 seconds left.
5) Manu and Kawhi caught ball watching while Allen gets his final rebound
6) Pop taking Duncan out on defense for the possessions where James and Allen each hit their second-chance threes.
7) Popovich's choice to have Parker on the bench for the final 31 seconds of overtime, thus allowing Evita possbly the worst TO in NBA history and his 8th in the game...
8) Ginobili. The turnover with 44 seconds left in overtime with the Spurs trailing 101-00, a telegraphed pass from the baseline to James near the free throw line; his furious drive through the lane on the Spurs' final possession where the whistles stayed silent and Ginobili had his new career high in turnovers.

how you can compare that string of chokes with the Seahawks play is beyond me :rolleyes

[ElNono]

^ but that's the point. The Spurs had a lot of different opportunities to turn that series around, including OT in Game 6 and Game 7.

We're discussing "what's worse", not what was a bigger choke. IMO, the turn of events in one single play determining the outcome of the SB was way, way worse and more shocking.

[hater]

^ but that's the point. The Spurs had a lot of different opportunities to turn that series around, including OT in Game 6 and Game 7.

We're discussing "what's worse", not what was a bigger choke. IMO, the turn of events in one single play determining the outcome of the SB was way, way worse and more shocking.

wrong. what's worse than a monumental chokejob is a series of consecutive monumental chokejobs imo

6 was way, way, way more of a bigger chokejob than Seahawks. it's not even in the same dimension

plus, they were already getting the champagne ready for Duncan, duct tape was being applied and 90% of the Miami mexicans had left the building. Nothing can be more shoking than that

[TheGreatYacht]

:lol Pop Carroll
:lol Russell Wilsonobili
:lmao

[ElNono]

wrong. what's worse than a monumental chokejob is a series of consecutive monumental chokejobs imo

6 was way, way, way more of a bigger chokejob than Seahawks. it's not even in the same dimension

plus, they were already getting the champagne ready for Duncan, duct tape was being applied and 90% of the Miami mexicans had left the building. Nothing can be more shoking than that

Nobody is arguing what's the bigger chokejob. The thread title is asking "what's worse".

If you think Game 6 is, fine. I disagree, I think as a fan, your whole season going away in a single play, a millisecond is way worse.

[hater]

Nobody is arguing what's the bigger chokejob. The thread title is asking "what's worse".

If you think Game 6 is, fine. I disagree, I think as a fan, your whole season going away in a single play, a millisecond is way worse.

again, there's nothing worse than an epic chokejob.

additionally the confetti, champagne and tape was already being rolled for the Spurs. the same cannot be said in the football game.


let's just agree to disagree :tu

[ElNono]

^ sounds good to me :tu

[TheGreatYacht]

Going through the Jefferson era + Duncan looking done in 11' + finally going to the Finals after 5+ years and LOSING thanks to a miracle shot is way fucking worse than a bad play by the coach, and failing to win back-to-back.

[Sean Cagney]

again, there's nothing worse than an epic chokejob.

additionally the confetti, champagne and tape was already being rolled for the Spurs. the same cannot be said in the football game.


let's just agree to disagree :tuYou know the Seahawks fans were celebrating already at home and drinking more thinking we have this game won! The ones in the stands probably thought so as well and were ready to go off. Tom Bradys face on the sidelines showed he thought it was over as well, they all were ready to either celebrate or just walk off the field in tears in which it looked like Tom was ready to do and the Pats fans in the stands.

The Spurs 6 to me is more like the Packers and Hawks game honestly, a bunch of mistakes and a storm of bad things happening to lose a game in which they had won (The perfect storm they call it). The Spurs and Packers were very similar in their meltdowns at the end of the game, the luck (Onside kick and 2 PT conversion in which looked hopeless to the Spurs missed rebound and the Allen luck three) and the other things that went wrong were just crazy! Those were eerily similar IMO to how they lost, both lost in OT as well after they had a shot to win there.
Going through the Jefferson era + Duncan looking done in 11' + finally going to the Finals after 5+ years and LOSING thanks to a miracle shot is way fucking worse than a bad play by the coach, and failing to win back-to-back.

Seattle failed to win back to back as well from it, tell Seattle fans that this one you speak of from the Spurs is way worse and I am sure they will disagree.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There isn't enough time to make a read. Lockette was the only option on that play and if executed properly, he was suppose to be open. 99/100 times that ball doesn't get intercepted. The ball could've been thrown better and probably towards his back shoulder rather than high and away but it has nothing to do with him making a read. By the time Butler starting breaking towards the ball, it was almost already out of the QB's hands. Give credit to Butler for making a great play on the ball.

There is no time to make a read? What do you think he was doing when he paused that tick when he hit his back foot?

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/b816imsimaa0g9u.jpg?w=1000

Had he actually thrown it bang bang, Butler cannot get there in time but instead he throws to the slant late when his receivers man is inside of him and driving on the football.

Compounding matters, the ball placement was shit. It was high and out front when it needed to be a dart right at the breadbasket. You have heard about throwing high into the middle of the field?

Wilson choked.

[Malik Hairston]

1. I agree with the poster that said Collinsworth's announcing played a big part in the ballooning of Carroll's criticism

2. It sucks that our generation's coverage of sports is entirely centered around blaming people, rather than giving credit..Browner and Butler both deserve immense credit..they both recognized the offense's play, Browner jammed the receiver at the line, and Butler made a great catch..he could have easily just broken it up, rather than making the great interception, and Seattle still wins the game and nobody is discussing the questionable play call

3. Whether you believe Wilson choked or not, it's still puzzling that he isn't receiving any blame in the era of media coverage where perceived choking is pounced on by everybody

4. Lynch is a sub-50% career runner when he needs 1 yard for the 1st down, and he was 1-5, this season..

Furthermore, during this season, there was 109 passes thrown from the 1-yard line..Wilson's pass was the first that resulted in an interception..

How can you dispute those numbers? The odds of an interception there are virtually 0, so I don't see how Wilson can get a pass for doing something that hadn't been done in 109 attempts this season..

[FuzzyLumpkins]

1) 8 Turnovers from our ballhandling SG
2) Two missed free throws in the final minute of regulation — one from Ginobili and the other from Kawhi
3) The offensive rebound off a badly missed three-point attempt from James that gave him a second try and — when he buried it deep on the left wing — cut the lead to two with 20 seconds left.
5) Manu and Kawhi caught ball watching while Allen gets his final rebound
6) Pop taking Duncan out on defense for the possessions where James and Allen each hit their second-chance threes.
7) Popovich's choice to have Parker on the bench for the final 31 seconds of overtime, thus allowing Evita possbly the worst TO in NBA history and his 8th in the game...
8) Ginobili. The turnover with 44 seconds left in overtime with the Spurs trailing 101-00, a telegraphed pass from the baseline to James near the free throw line; his furious drive through the lane on the Spurs' final possession where the whistles stayed silent and Ginobili had his new career high in turnovers.

how you can compare that string of chokes with the Seahawks play is beyond me :rolleyes

If I really wanted to I could go over the Seahawks last offensive and defensive drives and comment to colossal errors. Putting Wright in single high man against an all pro repeatedly. The best defense on the planet kept on giving up first downs to Kent State and Danny Amendola. Bruce Irvin getting butthurt and going thug and getting kicked out.

This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure if I look at the line play I can find stupid shit from Unger and others as well. You have been working on your bitchfest for 2 years and that is all you have? It was Manu taking a shit, missed free throws and two long rebounds. YAY!!

[Cloud786]

There is no time to make a read? What do you think he was doing when he paused that tick when he hit his back foot?

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/b816imsimaa0g9u.jpg?w=1000

Had he actually thrown it bang bang, Butler cannot get there in time but instead he throws to the slant late when his receivers man is inside of him and driving on the football.

Compounding matters, the ball placement was shit. It was high and out front when it needed to be a dart right at the breadbasket. You have heard about throwing high into the middle of the field?

Wilson choked.

That picture clearly shows that the ball is almost out of his hands by the time Butler is breaking towards the ball. The play is not designed to be bang bang. The whole point of the play is to wait for Kearse to move upfield to screen off Butler but him getting jammed at the line of scrimmage threw the execution off. Of course the ball placement was not as good as it could've been and Wilson even alluded to that in the postgame. I agree that it should not have been thrown high and away. If anything, he could be criticized for the placement of that throw but not for making that throw.

[Malik Hairston]

Shit, they even designed the play to go after Butler, rather than Revis/Browner, which was the intelligent move, too..

The only criticism I have is that they probably could have ran a play-action or a boot, which may have been more effective in that situation, since they were opting to pass..

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The legion of boom got beat by Danny Amendola and Kent State. That is like losing in the clutch to JJ Barea and Austin Rivers.

[Cloud786]

Shit, they even designed the play to go after Butler, rather than Revis/Browner, which was the intelligent move, too..

The only criticism I have is that they probably could have ran a play-action or a boot, which may have been more effective in that situation, since they were opting to pass..

I agree. I thought they should've passed it to the outside rather than the middle of the field but they never considered that the pass would be intercepted and truthfully, it doesn't 99% of the time. They even showed a stat that that pass was the only pass from the opponent's 1 yd line to be intercepted all year so I don't think throwing an interception ever crossed their minds.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That picture clearly shows that the ball is almost out of his hands by the time Butler is breaking towards the ball. The play is not designed to be bang bang. The whole point of the play is to wait for Kearse to move upfield to screen off Butler but him getting jammed at the line of scrimmage threw the execution off. Of course the ball placement was not as good as it could've been and Wilson even alluded to that in the postgame. I agree that it should not have been thrown high and away. If anything, he could be criticized for the placement of that throw but not for making that throw.

He's already made his break. That is the point. See how his arms are swinging and he's got that lean?

:lol if you want to think that the play was designed for the pass to be out in front of the pick like that instead of behind it then you go ahead. How much basketball and pnr have you watched? You have no clue what youre seeing do you?

I love how people make up stories about play design and what the OC intended. Unless you have quotes your guess is as good as mine and frankly not worth bringing up.

[Cloud786]

He's already made his break. That is the point. See how his arms are swinging and he's got that lean?

:lol if you want to think that the play was designed for the pass to be out in front of the pick like that instead of behind it then you go ahead. How much basketball and pnr have you watched? You have no clue what youre seeing do you?

I love how people make up stories about play design and what the OC intended. Unless you have quotes your guess is as good as mine and frankly not worth bringing up.

When the hell did I say it was suppose to be out in front of the pick like that? I just told you the pass itself was way too out in front of him and that it should've been low and away near his hip. How is basketball and pnr relevant to this??

Many teams run this play as it is pretty common. It's not that hard to see what was intended on the play.

[cjw]

Going through the Jefferson era + Duncan looking done in 11' + finally going to the Finals after 5+ years and LOSING thanks to a miracle shot is way fucking worse than a bad play by the coach, and failing to win back-to-back.

Exactly. People forget context of losing Game 6 because the Spurs happened to redeem themselves the next year. Seahawks had won the prior year so that alone made it less painful.

[TheGreatYacht]

Exactly. People forget context of losing Game 6 because the Spurs happened to redeem themselves the next year. Seahawks had won the prior year so that alone made it less painful.
Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Everybody thought that was Tim's last year, including Green who tweeted that he's going to try his hardest to get the crew back together.

Game 6 could've been the end of an era. The Seahawk core is young, they'll have plenty more years to redeem themselves.

[Sean Cagney]

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say. Everybody thought that was Tim's last year, including Green who tweeted that he's going to try his hardest to get the crew back together.

Game 6 could've been the end of an era. The Seahawk core is young, they'll have plenty more years to redeem themselves.
I thought the Niners would as well and their window shut after about 4 years, they had a few shots to win it all but came up empty in Seattle and the SB that one year. Football your window is seemingly shorter than basketball because you lose players every year and it's hard to keep a team together when you start paying guys the big bucks. Seattle might be around for a while or they will eventually fall back like most do when their window closes, depends IMO if they keep beast mode on the team as he is their main guy that holds the O together IMO. If he declines?
Exactly. People forget context of losing Game 6 because the Spurs happened to redeem themselves the next year. Seahawks had won the prior year so that alone made it less painful.

Less painful yes but honestly the latest one is the one that stings the most to fans, recent memory.

[Clipper Nation]

:lol Spurfan trying to diminish 6. 6 was far worse than Struggle's pick, come on now. They were literally roping off the court and getting the champagne ready.

[Sean Cagney]

:lol Spurfan trying to diminish 6. 6 was far worse than Struggle's pick, come on now. They were literally roping off the court and getting the champagne ready.

The year later diminished 6, the redemption run and I won't dwell on that again after they got 5. We know they were roping off the court and they handed that one away no doubt, seen it and heard it a million times which is what makes last year so much sweeter.

[TheGreatYacht]

I thought the Niners would as well and their window shut after about 4 years, they had a few shots to win it all but came up empty in Seattle and the SB that one year. Football your window is seemingly shorter than basketball because you lose players every year and it's hard to keep a team together when you start paying guys the big bucks. Seattle might be around for a while or they will eventually fall back like most do when their window closes, depends IMO if they keep beast mode on the team as he is their main guy that holds the O together IMO. If he declines?
Lol true, but when your biggest acquisition via free agency in recent memory is Richard Jefferson... You kind of know your team is fucked for a long time :lol

[Sean Cagney]

Lol true, but when your biggest acquisition via free agency in recent memory is Richard Jefferson... You kind of know your team is fucked for a long time :lol
Yeah that Richard Jefferson signing was one of the worst, glad we got rid of his contract as that was a HUGE addition by subtraction there. You have to find a real idiot to take on a contract like that and the Spurs shipped him out and got rid of his contract and got Jackson who had a good playoff run in 012 so that was a win win there. I thought the Spurs were done in 011 as most of us did, hell nobody saw the runs after that and if they said they did they are LYING. They looked spend, Tim looked done moreso than anyone.

[cjw]

Lol true, but when your biggest acquisition via free agency in recent memory is Richard Jefferson... You kind of know your team is fucked for a long time :lol

They traded someone whose jersey is in the rafters for him (albeit at the end of his career). But know where you're coming from there. Unless you luck into a top 5 player in the league, titles are almost impossible to grab in the NBA.

[Clipper Nation]

The year later diminished 6, the redemption run and I won't dwell on that again after they got 5. We know they were roping off the court and they handed that one away no doubt, seen it and heard it a million times which is what makes last year so much sweeter.

The year later is irrelevant to this comparison, though, like the year before is irrelevant to the Seahawks' choke. Ignoring everything else and just comparing the chokes, I really don't see much of an argument for Struggle's pick being worse than 6. Biggest choke in NFL history? Yes, but not bigger than 6.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

When the hell did I say it was suppose to be out in front of the pick like that? I just told you the pass itself was way too out in front of him and that it should've been low and away near his hip. How is basketball and pnr relevant to this??

Many teams run this play as it is pretty common. It's not that hard to see what was intended on the play.

What was intended was the pass would be behind the screen similar to how bball screeners obstruct defenders from shots and plays. Much like bball the same play never happens the same way twice. There are certain things that you want to accomplish like throw it such that the defender is obstructed from making a play. His screener was jammed sure but that means you adjust and throw it behind the pick. The ball wasn't just placed badly. The throw was late.

Wilson choked.

[Sean Cagney]

The year later is irrelevant to this comparison, though, like the year before is irrelevant to the Seahawks' choke. Ignoring everything else and just comparing the chokes, I really don't see much of an argument for Struggle's pick being worse than 6. Biggest choke in NFL history? Yes, but not bigger than 6.
I disagree, most out there are calling it the biggest choke job ever but probably because it is more recent and the NFL is alot bigger than basketball as far as viewers go and it's fresh on the mind. The super bowl play is being talked about ALOT more than 6 was by the media etc. 6 was bad we all know but honestly I don't really sweat it anymore after last year and nobody can tell me different. Last years as I said was sweet, revenge against that team in particular. If the Seahawks win it next year I am sure their fans will have alot less of a sting as well, just recent history is what fans care about and what happened this year.

[midnightpulp]

Seahawks playcall wasn't even bad. Results-based thinking is often counterproductive. The people who thought pulling TD was a bad call have largely piped down seeing him try to guard 3pt shooters from last-second inbounds plays. Maybe Wilson or the receiver didn't execute, but the call was fine. I might have run the ball and then called a no-huddle slant route on 3rd, but the WR was open for the split second he should've been and the DB just made an all time great read. Anomalies happen. It's like getting a bad beat on the river in poker. If you always make the right call and it doesn't work in one big moment, that doesn't mean you made the wrong call. The guys who always make the right call no matter the result come out ahead in the long haul.

Your metagame analysis is correct, but as you know a poker (or coaching) decision that is correct in a metagame vacuum can be wrong to make in certain situations. The higher "EV play" here was to go with Lynch 3 straight times. Why?

- New England performed poorly in this situation all season long.

- Lynch didn't have one carry for negative yards all game long. Additionally, New England's defense looked exhausted at that point.

- Belichick unexpectedly did not call a time out, like he knew if the let time run, Carroll would become over-concerned about the clock and run a pass play in that situation. Not only a pass play, but that specific slant. Even Butler said they practiced defending against that particular play leading up to the game. And when you watch the footage, he was already breaking toward the middle before the ball was even snapped.

- Wilson is undersized. Slants often give undersized QBs a lot of trouble. Also, a quick slant can also be easily tipped either by the defense or the intended receiver. If any pass was going to called there, it should've been a fade.

Carroll stuck to his metagame (as Pop often does), failing to adjust appropriately to the situation, and it cost him a title. It's like a poker player getting bullied off a pot by a LAG because the "book" says to fold here when you should've called given your opponent's tendencies.

[hater]

:lol Spurfan trying to diminish 6. 6 was far worse than Struggle's pick, come on now. They were literally roping off the court and getting the champagne ready.

boom

[TheGreatYacht]

Fucking Manu, smh.

[313]

1. I agree with the poster that said Collinsworth's announcing played a big part in the ballooning of Carroll's criticism

2. It sucks that our generation's coverage of sports is entirely centered around blaming people, rather than giving credit..Browner and Butler both deserve immense credit..they both recognized the offense's play, Browner jammed the receiver at the line, and Butler made a great catch..he could have easily just broken it up, rather than making the great interception, and Seattle still wins the game and nobody is discussing the questionable play call

3. Whether you believe Wilson choked or not, it's still puzzling that he isn't receiving any blame in the era of media coverage where perceived choking is pounced on by everybody

4. Lynch is a sub-50% career runner when he needs 1 yard for the 1st down, and he was 1-5, this season..

Furthermore, during this season, there was 109 passes thrown from the 1-yard line..Wilson's pass was the first that resulted in an interception..

How can you dispute those numbers? The odds of an interception there are virtually 0, so I don't see how Wilson can get a pass for doing something that hadn't been done in 109 attempts this season..

Seattle's defense also not catching much slack for giving up two touchdown drives in a row

[look_at_g_shred]

Seahawks by far. Their season was over in one play. The spurs still had an overtime and another game to redeem themselves.

[TheGreatYacht]

Seahawks by far. Their season was over in one play. The spurs still had an overtime and another game to redeem themselves.
Shit take, keep em coming :tu

[look_at_g_shred]

Shit take, keep em coming :tu
Bruh :sleepComing from you that means a lot :tu Your definitely the king of Shit takes. Be my guest tho nigga, show me. Shoe me how it's done.

[TheGreatYacht]

Bruh :sleepComing from you that means a lot :tu Your definitely the king of Shit takes. Be my guest tho nigga, show me. Shoe me how it's done.
Read the thread retard :lol I already gave my take... "Seahawks by far" :lmao

[look_at_g_shred]

Read the thread retard :lol I already gave my take... "Seahawks by far" :lmao
Yeah by far. You act like i'm the only one who thinks this :lol Get your shit straight "sportstalkjoe" :lmao

[lefty]

boom
:lol me jumping in every direction when were were up 5 and KL got fouled

[Spurs 4 The Win]

:lol me jumping in every direction when were were up 5 and KL got fouled

We were up 2 when Kawhi got fouled

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Your metagame analysis is correct, but as you know a poker (or coaching) decision that is correct in a metagame vacuum can be wrong to make in certain situations. The higher "EV play" here was to go with Lynch 3 straight times. Why?

- New England performed poorly in this situation all season long.

- Lynch didn't have one carry for negative yards all game long. Additionally, New England's defense looked exhausted at that point.

- Belichick unexpectedly did not call a time out, like he knew if the let time run, Carroll would become over-concerned about the clock and run a pass play in that situation. Not only a pass play, but that specific slant. Even Butler said they practiced defending against that particular play leading up to the game. And when you watch the footage, he was already breaking toward the middle before the ball was even snapped.

- Wilson is undersized. Slants often give undersized QBs a lot of trouble. Also, a quick slant can also be easily tipped either by the defense or the intended receiver. If any pass was going to called there, it should've been a fade.

Carroll stuck to his metagame (as Pop often does), failing to adjust appropriately to the situation, and it cost him a title. It's like a poker player getting bullied off a pot by a LAG because the "book" says to fold here when you should've called given your opponent's tendencies.

:lol making up shit about what Belichek intended by NOT doing something.
:lol making excuses for Wilson. :cry Slant routes are hard for him! :cry If he needs that excuse wtf is he out there for?

If they had tried to run it and failed on second down they would have had to pass on third because they would have run out of time for a potential fourth down with only one TO remaining. They maximized their number of opportunities but for the QB throwing late, high, and out in front.

[midnightpulp]

:lol making up shit about what Belichek intended by NOT doing something.
:lol making excuses for Wilson. :cry Slant routes are hard for him! :cry If he needs that excuse wtf is he out there for?

If they had tried to run it and failed on second down they would have had to pass on third because they would have run out of time for a potential fourth down with only one TO remaining. They maximized their number of opportunities but for the QB throwing late, high, and out in front.

Nowhere in my post did I exonerate Wilson. His height (or lack thereof) is primarily the reason he is not an elite QB and has to resort to being a game manager and scrambler. To put the game in his hands given his limitations is why the call was bad.

I didn't make anything up about Belichick's thought process.


"We put our goal-line defense in probably around the same time they were sending in their multiple receiver group, and that’s kind of what we wanted to be in there, to make sure they didn’t run the ball in.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/bill-belichick-explains-no-timeout-at-end-of-the-super-bowl-2015-2#ixzz3QphHbfKL

Meaning Belichick wanted to force them to pass. After the game Butler said they practiced defending against that slant all week. Belichick, in poker terms, "leveled" Carroll and baited him into doing something he and his defense knew was coming. It's like Butler had ESP when he broke on the ball. I wonder why? You don't make plays like that unless you know what's coming.

[pgardn]

Wasn't there a game 7?

When is Seattle's next shot at a championship?
2 outta 3?
Case closed.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Nowhere in my post did I exonerate Wilson. His height (or lack thereof) is primarily the reason he is not an elite QB and has to resort to being a game manager and scrambler. To put the game in his hands given his limitations is why the call was bad.

I didn't make anything up about Belichick's thought process.



Meaning Belichick wanted to force them to pass. After the game Butler said they practiced defending against that slant all week. Belichick, in poker terms, "leveled" Carroll and baited him into doing something he and his defense knew was coming. It's like Butler had ESP when he broke on the ball. I wonder why? You don't make plays like that unless you know what's coming.

:lol ESP. No doubt they had scouted the play but I don't see what mid-week preparation has to do with anything. Creating 10 man boxes is not a novel concept and teams pass with success against them all the time. IF you want to pretend that the coaches at the 20 second mark are calling in "pick play" and they they rubed them into actually calling it then have fun with that.

As has been said, had Wilson not hesitated Butler would have been rubbed off. The pick was at the goalline so Butler could have tried to make a stop but I like those chances. He had a clear line of sight to the receiver and the pick so I don't know why you bring height into this. It was not an issue and should not deflect from where the mistake was made.

He should have never thrown it into the open like he did. The play could have been executed properly. He could have moved to a different read, thrown the ball away, try to run it in himself or any other option but he throws the ball up for grabs.

If anything the reason why the playcall should have been to Lynch was because you cannot trust Wilson in that situation.

[BatManu20]

Seahawks fans feeling exactly how we did after 6 :lol


http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=108371