Vaccines

[CosmicCowboy]

Yes or no?

Rand Paul made an ass of himself this week in my opinion.

[CosmicCowboy]

And yeah, I think that parents that don't vaccinate their kids for the recommended ones are idiots.

[spurraider21]

Yes or no?
:lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

Why is that funny? Over 10% of parents choose not to vaccinate their kids because of misinformation.

The Jenny McCarthy autism thing reached a lot of stupid people. Apparently Rand Paul is one of them.

[RandomGuy]

And yeah, I think that parents that don't vaccinate their kids for the recommended ones are idiots.

Heh, I seem to remember someone making a thread about that....

[CosmicCowboy]

Sorry if I missed it. Life gets in the way sometimes. My intention was not to be redundant.

Just wondered where Libertarian vs. pretty much established science stood in here.

Greater good and all...

[TeyshaBlue]

SA210 waves his testicles at you. :lol

[SnakeBoy]

I haven't been paying too much attention to the news lately but what did Rand Paul say to make an ass out of himself? Very quick search I just see him saying he thought most vaccines should be voluntary but people should get them, and they should be staggered over time rather than given all at once. None of that seems over the top to me.

I think most people who don't vaccinate their kids are idiots. Only exception that comes to mind are those who don't for religious reasons (still stupid but religious freedom and all) and maybe there are some medical conditions that would warrant not getting vaccines idk.

[sook]

Rand supporter here, and yes he did. Glad he went back on what he said...no way he believes that shit as a physician.

[spurraider21]

Why is that funny? Over 10% of parents choose not to vaccinate their kids because of misinformation.

The Jenny McCarthy autism thing reached a lot of stupid people. Apparently Rand Paul is one of them.
I find the "no" crowd to be hilarious, but in a sad way. Like they're REALLY stupid.

I don't care for Rand Paul nearly as much as I did Ron. Jenny McCarthy is a dangerous human being :lol

[boutons_deux]

Anti-vaccine megachurch hit with measles epidemic, now offering free vaccinations (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/26/1234055/-Anti-vaccine-megachurch-hit-with-measles-epidemic-now-offering-free-vaccinations)

An outbreak of the measles at Kenneth Copeland's Texas megachurch has gotten some attention because (1) measles is something children are generally vaccinated for, these days and (2) Kenneth Copeland is, of course, an anti-vaccine crackpot. In what seems to be yet another bitterly ironic attempt by God to teach noisy religious fundamentalists what-for, the church has thus become the epicenter of a small but worrisome outbreak that has so far infected 10 and resulted in the Department of State Health Services issuing an alert spanning North Texas.That has megachurch pastors doing a bit of fancy dancin', with Pastor Terri Pearson (Copeland's daughter) walking back their leader's anti-vaccination stance to explain to the congregation that no, God does not really want your children to contract a potentially dangerous disease that vaccinations have all but licked because duh (http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/unfairpark/2013/08/theres_a_measles_outbreak_at_v.php).


"There are a lot of people that think the Bible -- we talk about walking by faith -- it leaves out things such as, I don't know, people just get strange. But when you read the Old Testament, you find that it is full of precautionary measures, and it is full of the law.Why did the Jewish people, why did they not die out during the plague? Because the Bible told them how to be clean, told them how to disinfect, told them there was something contagious. And the interesting thing of it, it wasn't a medical doctor per se who took care of those things, it was the priesthood…."


See there? Even back in the before-times, people were smart enough to know that if you could do a very simple thing in order to Not Die, you probably ought to do that thing and not just trust that all of God's various plagues and viruses had built-in piety detectors that would run away when they got a taste of the likes of religious you.Helpfully, the church now states that it was an unclean outsider that brought this evil into their midst, which is a bit of a cop-out (http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2013/08/measles-case-in-tarrant-county-tracked-back-to-megachurch-beside-eagle-mountain-lake.html/):


Eagle Mountain International Church, about 50 miles northwest of Dallas, released a statement Tuesday that said a visitor attended a service who had been overseas and was exposed to measles.“Therefore the congregation, staff at Kenneth Copeland Ministries and the daycare center on the property were exposed through that contact,” the statement said.


http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/08/26/1234055/-Anti-vaccine-megachurch-hit-with-measles-epidemic-now-offering-free-vaccinations?detail=email#

[pgardn]

Yes or no?

Rand Paul made an ass of himself this week in my opinion.

Yes. The desire to be different than Obama on almost any issue is an amusing Republican strategy.

And this is not the first week of course.

I think most of our anti vaccine nuts were eliminated during the Great Chumpdumper Psuedophoto Purge, which forwith shall be named as such.

[baseline bum]

Why is that funny? Over 10% of parents choose not to vaccinate their kids because of misinformation.

The Jenny McCarthy autism thing reached a lot of stupid people. Apparently Rand Paul is one of them.

Bitches have kids in their 40s and wonder why they come out all fucked up. :lol

That's why natural selection made women start going downhill bigtime by the mid 30s tbh.

[spurraider21]

http://i.imgur.com/LuLsv2J.jpg

[Winehole23]

tangential, presumably ongoing in court:

http://www.skepticalraptor.com/skepticalraptorblog.php/merck-mumps-motions-whistleblowers-the-actual-story/

[Winehole23]

SA210 waves his testicles at you. :loltallies with my recollection: very fixated on his own junk.

what's his current ST username?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I could understand the skepticism up until a couple of years ago. There was a scientific article with experimental data out there that linked autism and vaccines.

The author and the scientific community have since repudiated it but in the meantime I can respect the open mind. Now? Not so much.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/02/us/a-discredited-vaccine-studys-continuing-impact-on-public-health.html?_r=0

That is pretty good article discussing the dynamic in the now.

[spurraider21]

:lmao

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10407581_956402331044243_5694613053832743669_n.png ?oh=e861a448008358e11026fdf7e403e750&oe=55542050&__gda__=1435960281_646645192e8b1caafcad127d352ae68 1

[Wild Cobra]

How many autistic kids have never had a vaccination before diagnosed?

[spurraider21]

How many autistic kids have never had a vaccination before diagnosed?
autism has only been diagnosed for about 100 years. we've been using vaccines for over 200

[sickdsm]

A classmate of mine has a 4 yr old daughter that has Transverse Mylitis. She was never supposed to be able to walk. She will always be handicapped supposedly because of a vaccine.


I like to keep that in mind when that's up for discussion.

[ElNono]

I was reading a lot of pediatricians won't see non-vaccinated children unless it's an emergency. Something about putting other patients at risk.

[spurraider21]

A classmate of mine has a 4 yr old daughter that has Transverse Mylitis. She was never supposed to be able to walk. She will always be handicapped supposedly because of a vaccine.


I like to keep that in mind when that's up for discussion.
has she had polio or smallpox?

[angrydude]

People grossly overstate the presence/influence/danger of the anti-vax movement.

But it's one subject where every person who ever vaccinated their kids feels qualified to be righteously indignant about and shout down any discussion.

All drugs have side effects, this is nothing new.

[sickdsm]

has she had polio or smallpox?

I'm going to assume no but take a look at a beautiful little 4 yr old girl on more crutch contraptions then tween Forest Gump and I bet you'd feel like as arse for judging them.

I don't know if they are vaccinating there next.

[Blizzardwizard]

Yes or no?

Rand Paul made an ass of himself this week in my opinion.

Yes. I just can't understand the anti-vaccine crew e.g. Rand Paul, Michele Bachmann. But then again I don't understand most things they say.

[boutons_deux]

People grossly overstate the presence/influence/danger of the anti-vax movement.

under 200 kids with measles so far, haven't seen how many were hospitalized, permanently damaged, and/or kill

Now, for some context:

10,000 Kids Are Injured Or Killed By Guns Each Year In The U.S. (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/01/27/3206581/kids-gun-violence-killed-injuries/)

Injuries from firearms send an estimated 7,000 kids to the ER every year, and an additional 3,000 children die from gunshot wounds before they can get to a hospital, according to a new study (http://www.webmd.com/parenting/news/20140127/twenty-us-kids-hospitalized-each-day-for-gun-injuries-study) published in the journal Pediatrics. Doctors are pointing to the new data as further evidence of the serious public health toll that gun violence takes on America’s youth.

The new study drilled down some of the data from a 2009 survey of kids’ pediatric stays. That year, the majority of kids’ gunshot injuries — 4,559 — resulted from intentional assaults with a firearm. An additional 2,149 were accidents, and 270 were suicide attempts. About six percent of the children who made it to the ER ended up dying in the hospital from their injuries (http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/10/15/2779961/gunshot-wounds-emergency-room-kids/), which are typically open wounds, fractures, or brain or spinal injuries.

“This study reinforces what we know from the mortality data,” Daniel Webster, the director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, told NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/health/guns-hurt-or-kill-10-000-children-us-each-year-2D11997891?ocid=twitter). “We have an extraordinary health burden in our youth associated with firearms injuries.”

http://thinkprogress.org/health/2014/01/27/3206581/kids-gun-violence-killed-injuries/

2nd Amendment!

marans!

water the tree of lee burr tee (with our kids blood)!

home defense!

Freedom!

[Shastafarian]

I'm going to assume no but take a look at a beautiful little 4 yr old girl on more crutch contraptions then tween Forest Gump and I bet you'd feel like as arse for judging them.

I don't know if they are vaccinating there next.

He was asking because polio and smallpox have effectively been eradicated by the implementation of vaccination protocols. Transverse myelitis is a possible, though seemingly rare, consequence of vaccination. It shouldn't be used as a reason to avoid vaccination in children with no apparent predisposition to that disease.

[Winehole23]

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/statisticsreports.html

[boutons_deux]

The Price of Prevention: Vaccine Costs Are Soaring

Old vaccines have been reformulated with higher costs. New ones have entered the market at once-unthinkable prices. Together, since 1986, they have pushed up the average cost to fully vaccinate a child with private insurance to the age of 18 to $2,192 from $100, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Even with deep discounts, the costs for the federal government, which buys half of all vaccines for the nation’s children, have increased 15-fold during that period. The most expensive shot for young children in Dr. Irvin’s refrigerator is Prevnar 13, which prevents diseases caused by pneumococcal bacteria, from ear infections to pneumonia.

Like many vaccines, Prevnar requires multiple jabs. Each shot is priced at $136, and most states require children to get four doses before entering day care or preschool. Pfizer, the sole manufacturer, had revenues of nearly $4 billion from its Prevnar (http://www.fiercepharma.com/story/analysts-see-15b-boost-pfizer-better-expected-prevnar-13-data/2014-03-13) vaccine line last year, about double what it made from high-profile drugs like Lipitor and Viagra, which now face generic competitors.

“It’s expensive in part because it’s a very effective vaccine,” he said. “And also because they’re exploiting their monopoly.”

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2014/07/03/health/Vaccine-Costs-Soaring-Paying-Till-It-Hurts.html

aka ABUSING the victims of their monopoly

BigPharma, just another BigCorp sector sucking wealth out of citizens.

[Wild Cobra]

BigPharma, just another BigCorp sector sucking wealth out of citizens.


With Obamacare pushed on us exclusively by democrats.

[boutons_deux]

With Obamacare pushed on us exclusively by democrats.

yep, elections have consequences, so eat shit

ACA, in spite of Repug non-stop sabotaging and in spite of working into a nightmarish, dysfunctional health care system, moves America forward.

btw, it was Lieberman, whore of the dominant health insurers in his state of Connecticut, who single-handedly killed the govt insurance of public option.

[sickdsm]

Is the current no vaccine advocate's reasoning the myths of Autism or because of freedom of choice?


I think a law requiring vaccines make much more sense than I getting a ticket for no seat belt but abortion is widely considered a choice?

Why can a mother decide to terminate life but if she decides the go the organic route (much preferred in food only) after birth, she's a monster?


I still think vaccines are a decision that should require about five seconds or less of thought.

[TeyshaBlue]

yep, elections have consequences, so eat shit.
Indeed.

[Shastafarian]

Is the current no vaccine advocate's reasoning the myths of Autism or because of freedom of choice?


I think a law requiring vaccines make much more sense than I getting a ticket for no seat belt but abortion is widely considered a choice?

Why can a mother decide to terminate life but if she decides the go the organic route (much preferred in food only) after birth, she's a monster?


I still think vaccines are a decision that should require about five seconds or less of thought.

Abortions don't have an impact on public health.

[sickdsm]

Abortions don't have an impact on public health.

Odds are much greater that if one person gets an abortion a life is lost than if one person doesn't get vaccinated?


Driver driving solo without seatbelt does not have an impact on public health either though.

[Shastafarian]

Odds are much greater that if one person gets an abortion a life is lost than if one person doesn't get vaccinated?Abortions don't have an impact on public health.



Driver driving solo without seatbelt does not have an impact on public health either though....driving without a seatbelt is currently illegal and has nothing to do with epidemiology.

[pgardn]

Odds are much greater that if one person gets an abortion a life is lost than if one person doesn't get vaccinated?


Driver driving solo without seatbelt does not have an impact on public health either though.

So if your nonvaccinated kids come and cough their diseases on your friend's nonvaccinated kids can you both be allowed to shoot each other simultaneously?

[RandomGuy]

A classmate of mine has a 4 yr old daughter that has Transverse Mylitis. She was never supposed to be able to walk. She will always be handicapped supposedly because of a vaccine.


I like to keep that in mind when that's up for discussion.

All medical procedures have cost/benefit.

As a whole, we have to be willing to step back and look at the wider tragedy of millions of children dying from preventable diseases, and balance that with the certain knowledge that vaccinations can, do, and likely always will, cause smaller scale tragedies like the one your classmate suffered.

[RandomGuy]

Odds are much greater that if one person gets an abortion a life is lost than if one person doesn't get vaccinated?


Driver driving solo without seatbelt does not have an impact on public health either though.

Actually an idiot that drives without a seatbelt does have an impact on wider public health. If and when they get in an accident, they consume far more health care than might otherwise be the case.

Those costs are, quite often, borne by the rest of us.

People tend not to understand how interconnected we are.

[Shastafarian]

He was asking because polio and smallpox have effectively been eradicated by the implementation of vaccination protocols. Transverse myelitis is a possible, though seemingly rare, consequence of vaccination. It shouldn't be used as a reason to avoid vaccination in children with no apparent predisposition to that disease.

My bad only smallpox has technically been eradicated...in humans. But a disease called Rinderpest, in cattle/ruminants, has been confirmed eradicated thanks to a global vaccination program. There are other diseases that have also been geographically eradicated thanks to vaccine programs. The possible negative outcomes of vaccination are so rare and minuscule that you can't use them as reasons to decline vaccination for your kids. It's incredibly irresponsible.

Edit: Rinderpest was caused by a virus in the same genus (Morbillivirus) as...you guessed it, Measles.

[SupremeGuy]

The anti-vaxxers are so fucking stupid it hurts my head, tbh. You honestly can't reason with stupid so we might as well make it law to get your kids vaccinated and move on.

[boutons_deux]

Govt admits that injury or death from vaccination exists:

http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/vaccinetable.html

[SupremeGuy]

Do you ever think for yourself boutons? Or do you literally just jump on to whatever the new far-left issue is?

[FlAVaK]

http://33.media.tumblr.com/060bf34709dbb201700fe047f4b47448/tumblr_nja7ouKmKk1qc8jh0o2_500.gif
http://33.media.tumblr.com/fc1f11792b87c0473a7c664fd96738c7/tumblr_nja7ouKmKk1qc8jh0o3_500.gif
http://33.media.tumblr.com/f9364f49ea06d4d9ae58a311079e1ef1/tumblr_nja7ouKmKk1qc8jh0o1_500.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/fbcd2758eea9cd2fa9382d4a45990272/tumblr_nja7ouKmKk1qc8jh0o5_500.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/29f8d70b984a4867bad408b6e6426950/tumblr_nja7ouKmKk1qc8jh0o4_500.gif

http://memewhore.tumblr.com/post/110273255797

[SupremeGuy]

Jenny McCarthy probably started her little crusade because she was ashamed that her kid was autistic, and she NEEDED to find something to blame, tbh.

[baseline bum]

Jenny McCarthy probably started her little crusade because she was ashamed that her kid was autistic, and she NEEDED to find something to blame, tbh.

Was she old as fuck when she had her retard kid? That's a big factor for the increased rates of autism.

[SupremeGuy]

Was she old as fuck when she had her retard kid? That's a big factor for the increased rates of autism.Not sure. She could just have bad genes, tbh. Some people can't handle realizing that. lol

[boutons_deux]

Do you ever think for yourself boutons? Or do you literally just jump on to whatever the new far-left issue is?

I jump on the right because you assholes and your politicians deserved to be stomped on.

You Can't Handle the Truth (that some people, esp kids, are injured or killed by vaccines, which is why I think some parents don't want to risk injuring or killing thier kid for the sake of the herd.).

[Shastafarian]

You Can't Handle the Truth (that some people, esp kids, are injured or killed by vaccines, which is why I think some parents don't want to risk injuring or killing thier kid for the sake of the herd.).

You're imagining things. The rational people here know full well there are idiosyncratic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiosyncrasy) and/or allergic reactions to vaccines. But parents not caring about herd health is stupid. Not only does it make a disease harder to eradicate, their own children become much more likely contract said disease. I don't have the stats at hand but I'd wager unvaccinated children are more likely to get the disease the vaccine was designed to protect against than they are to experience one of those idiosyncracies or allergic reactions (if they had received the vaccine(s)).

[boutons_deux]

"not caring about herd health is stupid"

they care about the health of their own kid more.

"have the stats at hand but I'd wager unvaccinated children"

"But six of the cases got their measles-mumps-rubella vaccine—the MMR shot—and still managed to get infected. And all but two of them had gotten at least two doses, the standard recommendation."

http://www.wired.com/2015/01/vaccinated-people-get-measles-disneyland-blame-unvaccinated/

I'm not arguing against MMR or polio or chickenpox vaccines, but I appreciate how some parents don't want their children sick, injured, dead from vaccines.

vaccines do make some very sick. eg, google "hpv vaccine adverse events"

[baseline bum]

http://33.media.tumblr.com/060bf34709dbb201700fe047f4b47448/tumblr_nja7ouKmKk1qc8jh0o2_500.gif
http://33.media.tumblr.com/fc1f11792b87c0473a7c664fd96738c7/tumblr_nja7ouKmKk1qc8jh0o3_500.gif
http://33.media.tumblr.com/f9364f49ea06d4d9ae58a311079e1ef1/tumblr_nja7ouKmKk1qc8jh0o1_500.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/fbcd2758eea9cd2fa9382d4a45990272/tumblr_nja7ouKmKk1qc8jh0o5_500.gif
http://31.media.tumblr.com/29f8d70b984a4867bad408b6e6426950/tumblr_nja7ouKmKk1qc8jh0o4_500.gif

http://memewhore.tumblr.com/post/110273255797

:lmao :lmao :lmao

[sickdsm]

Actually an idiot that drives without a seatbelt does have an impact on wider public health. If and when they get in an accident, they consume far more health care than might otherwise be the case.

Those costs are, quite often, borne by the rest of us.

People tend not to understand how interconnected we are.

You're really going to play that card?

I assume your all for the outright ban on fast food restaurants, junkfood, tobacco, and alcohol?

I do remember Texas having a lot of cities in the top ten fattest with Fat Antonio leading the way about ten years ago.


And your pointing out what may be the legality of a seat belt law?

[Shastafarian]

"not caring about herd health is stupid"

they care about the health of their own kid more. Then they should vaccinate their children.

[RandomGuy]

You're really going to play that card?

I assume your[sic] all for the outright ban on fast food restaurants, junkfood, tobacco, and alcohol?

I do remember Texas having a lot of cities in the top ten fattest with Fat Antonio leading the way about ten years ago.


And your[sic] pointing out what may be the legality of a seat belt law?

You assume wrong.

I am, however all for tax rates that accurately reflect the true cost of something, and using the funds raised from those taxes to mitigate the worst of the effects.

Seatbelt laws are the closest we can get to taxing such risky behavior.

Don't get me started on the fucking dolts on motorcycles who don't wear helmets. They should be pulled over and beaten about the head with batons, not given tickets.

[RandomGuy]

You're really going to play that card?

And yes, I will play that card, because it is basic economics, and basic science.

People who choose not to vaccinate themselves or their children affect the rest of us.

Do you think that isn't the case?

YOU ARE going to have to make that case a bit better and clear if so. YOU ARE going to have to cite some reasoned explanations, and hopefully some actual science on the subject. I am afraid though, YOU ARE not going to do that.

[RandomGuy]

Abortions don't have an impact on public health.

Actually they do, just like any decision. What that affect is, beyond the obvious saving of lives in the case of certain life-threatening pregnancies is another matter.

[boutons_deux]

Actually they do

how?

[sickdsm]

Killing of an innocent person is not a public issue?


Whatever makes you rest easy.

[sickdsm]

Everyone seems to have glossed over that I am not an anti vaccer.


I brought up a real world example of someone I know who has had a bad experience with vaccines in a unmentioned consequence.

I said it changes how I judge people on that issue. I'm sorry that this is apparently a close minded group.

[boutons_deux]

Killing of an innocent person is not a public issue?

Whatever makes you rest easy.

guns and police killing 10Ks innocent people every year, THAT's a public health issue, and you don't GAF. A weeks-old fetus, or fertilized egg (1000s flushed away by fert clinics and you pro-life Christians say nothing), isn't a "person".

[RandomGuy]

how?

An abortion is like any other medical procedure, with risks and consequences. Further on down the line, you also have other economic impacts of kids or no kids, depending on who is having them.

I would point out that denying an abortion in the case that a mothers life is in jeopardy has some very specific consequences, and leads to a large amount of expense, and potentially death.

[RandomGuy]

Killing of an innocent person is not a public issue?


Whatever makes you rest easy.

Killing innocent people does worry me. It is one of the reasons I oppose the death penalty.

Of course, abortions don't do that, so I am fine. The government forcing women to be pregnant is not something I am comfortable with.

[Shastafarian]

Actually they do, just like any decision. What that affect is, beyond the obvious saving of lives in the case of certain life-threatening pregnancies is another matter.

Perhaps I was too general in my wording but overall abortions don't have a direct impact on public health...at least not a measurable direct impact.

[Shastafarian]

Killing of an innocent person is not a public issue?


Whatever makes you rest easy.Public issue isn't the same as public HEALTH issue.


Everyone seems to have glossed over that I am not an anti vaccer.


I brought up a real world example of someone I know who has had a bad experience with vaccines in a unmentioned consequence.

I said it changes how I judge people on that issue. I'm sorry that this is apparently a close minded group.
This only follows if these people you're judging are the people you know, who happen to have experience with adverse vaccine reactions. People that use adverse reactions as an excuse, with no background for assuming higher risk in their children, are using information improperly. Any potential adverse event should be informed on but should never be used as a reason to forgo vaccination, assuming there is no documented individual predisposition. If that is too "close minded" for you I don't know what to tell you.

[sickdsm]

Seems to me i'm the one that brought up a real case of a vaccine causing irreversible damage, and bascially said "hey, keep an open mind about this, I'm not against vaccines and IMO your dumb if you don't but this is real" I've never heard of that condition before and i've had to google it more than once.

And i'm getting blasted for this? And that's not close minded?

And boutons, sorry but i'm not pro-life. I'm not pro-choice either.

Like the vast majority of americans, i lie in the middle who believe that its not a right of every woman but should be available in medical/rape/other scenario's.


They should make a law that killing people is illegal Boutons and that would solve the murder issue.

[pgardn]

Seems to me i'm the one that brought up a real case of a vaccine causing irreversible damage, and bascially said "hey, keep an open mind about this, I'm not against vaccines and IMO your dumb if you don't but this is real" I've never heard of that condition before and i've had to google it more than once.

And i'm getting blasted for this? And that's not close minded?

And boutons, sorry but i'm not pro-life. I'm not pro-choice either.

Like the vast majority of americans, i lie in the middle who believe that its not a right of every woman but should be available in medical/rape/other scenario's.


They should make a law that killing people is illegal Boutons and that would solve the murder issue.

Because cases of vaccines causing problems happened within your realm does not change the numbers. You do a great diservice to your child and those around. I imagine some people don't wear seat belts because they know someone who died because of the restraint. Except they usually don't kill others around them by becoming a human projectile.

I have NEVER had the flu. Even before I started getting vaccinated. I get vaccinated every year by choice because I realize I can be a real risk to those around me as a carrier. My choice. When you are waiting to get vaccinated and hear the stories of people around you... it helps understanding. My world.

[Shastafarian]

Seems to me i'm the one that brought up a real case of a vaccine causing irreversible damage, and bascially said "hey, keep an open mind about this, I'm not against vaccines and IMO your dumb if you don't but this is real" I've never heard of that condition before and i've had to google it more than once.

And i'm getting blasted for this? And that's not close minded?


We appreciate your info but it's purely anecdotal. It really should have no bearing on vaccination decisions. If you did say people who don't vaccinate are "dumb" then that's good. I just don't recall that.

[RandomGuy]

Perhaps I was too general in my wording but overall abortions don't have a direct impact on public health...at least not a measurable direct impact.

Well, given that the demographics of women who seek abortion tends toward the poor side, and poor people tend to be, overall, less healthy, I would again disagree.

I think the impact on overall public health and costs of the health care system would be quite substantial, although determining what the exact impact is to a reasonable degree would be rather difficult due to the number of variables.

[Shastafarian]

Well, given that the demographics of women who seek abortion tends toward the poor side, and poor people tend to be, overall, less healthy, I would again disagree.

I think the impact on overall public health and costs of the health care system would be quite substantial, although determining what the exact impact is to a reasonable degree would be rather difficult due to the number of variables.

I think we're arguing over semantics at this point. We agree on the main issue and that's all that really matters.

[boutons_deux]

HPV vaccine carries 25% chance of lifelong sterilization,

25% of girls who receive the Human Papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine end up sterilized. They will never be able to conceive children.

Researchers examined 8 million women in the United States between 25 and 29.

Among married women who had never been vaccinated with the HPV vaccine, 75% had had at least one child.

Among married women who had been vaccinated, the number was 50%.

The same gap existed in unmarried women – about 25% fewer vaccinated women had conceived children.

The study’s authors report that statistically if all 8 million women in the study had been vaccinated,

the United States would have suffered a catastrophic drop in the US birth rate that would have translated into 2 million fewer babies.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20180824/HPV-vaccine-carries-2525-chance-of-lifelong-sterilization-study-finds.aspx

[spurraider21]

HPV vaccine carries 25% chance of lifelong sterilization,

25% of girls who receive the Human Papillomavirus (HPV) vaccine end up sterilized. They will never be able to conceive children.

Researchers examined 8 million women in the United States between 25 and 29.

Among married women who had never been vaccinated with the HPV vaccine, 75% had had at least one child.

Among married women who had been vaccinated, the number was 50%.

The same gap existed in unmarried women – about 25% fewer vaccinated women had conceived children.

The study’s authors report that statistically if all 8 million women in the study had been vaccinated,

the United States would have suffered a catastrophic drop in the US birth rate that would have translated into 2 million fewer babies.

https://www.news-medical.net/news/20180824/HPV-vaccine-carries-2525-chance-of-lifelong-sterilization-study-finds.aspx
:lol “scientific paper” authored by professor in economics and finance

ive only been able to read the abstract for free, and all it does is point out some percentages while providing no reasoning or medical mechanism to support the link between them.

Booboo sharing trash per par

[RandomGuy]

Seems to me i'm the one that brought up a real case of a vaccine causing irreversible damage, and bascially said "hey, keep an open mind about this, I'm not against vaccines and IMO your dumb if you don't but this is real" I've never heard of that condition before and i've had to google it more than once.

And i'm getting blasted for this? And that's not close minded?

And boutons, sorry but i'm not pro-life. I'm not pro-choice either.

Like the vast majority of americans, i lie in the middle who believe that its not a right of every woman but should be available in medical/rape/other scenario's.


They should make a law that killing people is illegal Boutons and that would solve the murder issue.

Not really all that comfortable with forced pregnancy. A woman should have the FINAL say in her own body, period.

[spurraider21]

Booboo: anti-science repugs are dangerous
also booboo: Ooga-booga vaccines are bad!

[RandomGuy]

:lol “scientific paper” authored by professor in economics and finance

ive only been able to read the abstract for free, and all it does is point out some percentages while providing no reasoning or medical mechanism to support the link between them.

Booboo sharing trash per par

Well, the author's statement is well within his area of expertise. Data regression is the economists purview.

"Further research is warranted". It would seem worth doing some research on.

It was in a credible, peer-reviewed journal.

Does it prove "sterilization"? FUCK NO.

You are exactly right that no mechanism is identified. That would be required to prove linkage, and eliminate other possibilities for reduced instances of pregnancy, such as say, also having access to birth control to prevent unwanted pregnancies, something that would FULLY explain lowered fertility rates, just as easily.

This is a perfect example of stupid shit anti-vaxxers say.

[RandomGuy]

Seems to me i'm the one that brought up a real case of a vaccine causing irreversible damage, and bascially said "hey, keep an open mind about this, I'm not against vaccines and IMO your dumb if you don't but this is real" I've never heard of that condition before and i've had to google it more than once.

And i'm getting blasted for this? And that's not close minded?




I wouldn't blast you. Vaccines, like any medical procedure carry risk. Someone WILL die, just as someone WILL die from widespread use of anti-biotics, heart surgery, etc.

One has to balance the benefits to the risks.

In this case, the balance STRONGLY tilts in favor of vaccines that prevent MILLIONS of deaths per year. Very very very easy call to make.

[Spurtacular]

Yes or no?

Rand Paul made an ass of himself this week in my opinion.

Bill Gates says no, at least for his own children.

https://www.transcend.org/tms/2018/02/bill-gates-former-doctor-says-billionaire-refused-to-vaccinate-his-children/

[Pavlov]

Bill Gates says no, at least for his own children.

https://www.transcend.org/tms/2018/02/bill-gates-former-doctor-says-billionaire-refused-to-vaccinate-his-children/Yeah, that's made up.

[Spurtacular]

Yeah, that's made up.

Sure it is. :lol

[Pavlov]

Sure it is. :lolIt sure is. :lol

[Spurtacular]

It sure is. :lol

Snopes told you, so; amirite? :lmao

[Pavlov]

Snopes told you, so; amirite? :lmaoNo, you posted it.

[Spurtacular]

No, you posted it.

Wow, not even relying on old faithful. Instead relying on old old faithful though.

:lmao Solid lash out.

[Pavlov]

Wow, not even relying on old faithful. Instead relying on old old faithful though.

:lmao Solid lash out.You do realize you say lashing out all the time, don't you?

You post a lot of fake shit.

[Spurtacular]

You do realize you say lashing out all the time, don't you?

You post a lot of fake shit.

You lash out a lot.

[Pavlov]

You lash out a lot.OK, let's talk about the story you posted.

Who is Baxter Dmitry?

[Chucho]

Wow, not even relying on old faithful. Instead relying on old old faithful though.

:lmao Solid lash out.

Three word responses is not "lashing out".

[Spurtacular]

Three word responses is not "lashing out".

Chump already has a fluffer, crusty.

[Spurtacular]

OK, let's talk about the story you posted.

Who is Baxter Dmitry?

:lol Pop quiz

[Chucho]

Chump already has a fluffer, crusty.

You don't know what "lash out" means, derpy.

[Pavlov]

:lol Pop quizWhite flag accepted.

[Spurtacular]

White flag accepted.

You're point is not worth making. You accept your own white flag. :lmao

[Pavlov]

You're point is not worth making. You accept your own white flag. :lmaoIt's your, derp

You sure as hell don't want to talk about your fake news.:lmao

[Spurtacular]

It's your, derp

You sure as hell don't want to talk about your fake news.:lmao

You decided your point wasn't worth making. I accept that.

[Pavlov]

You decided your point wasn't worth making. I accept that.You posted fake news from fake news site.

Again.

Accept that.

lol derp

[Spurtacular]

You posted fake news from fake news site.

Again.

Accept that.

lol derp

Cos you said so. White flagging it from the start. :lmao

[Pavlov]

Cos you said so. White flagging it from the start. :lmao:lol no

Look at the other story attributed to the same author:

CIA Agent Confesses on Deathbed: ‘We Blew Up WTC7 on 9/11’

lol derp

[Spurtacular]

:lol no

Look at the other story attributed to the same author:

CIA Agent Confesses on Deathbed: ‘We Blew Up WTC7 on 9/11’

lol derp

So, you're mad that a journalist is going after unsanitized narrative?

:lmao Psychopav Chump

[Pavlov]

So, you're mad that a journalist is going after unsanitized narrative?

:lmao Psychopav ChumpNo, I'm laughing at his fake news that you fell for and posted here.


lol derp

[Spurtacular]

No, I'm laughing at his fake news that you fell for and posted here.


lol derp

You call it fake news.

[Pavlov]

You call it fake news.
Because it's fake news.

[SpursforSix]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8f/4c/5b/8f4c5b98c296eec4e5246134e83c82d6.png

[Spurtacular]

Because it's fake news.

Because it's easy for you to pretend.

[Pavlov]

Because it's easy for you to pretend.No need. It's a well known fake news site that had to change its domain name because too many people caught onto it.

You didn't catch on.

Because you're derp.

lol

[Spurtacular]

No need. It's a well known fake news site that had to change its domain name because too many people caught onto it.

You didn't catch on.

Because you're derp.

lol

:lmao At your talking points.

[Pavlov]

:lmao At your talking points.Type "yournewswire.com" into your address bar and press enter.

What site do you see?

[Spurtacular]

Type "yournewswire.com" into your address bar and press enter.

What site do you see?

A website. Any other lame points?

[spurraider21]

OK, let's talk about the story you posted.

Who is Baxter Dmitry?
❌ Baxter Dmitry ❌ (https://twitter.com/baxter_dmitry)@baxter_dmitry (https://twitter.com/baxter_dmitry)https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png Investigative reporter. https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png Articles shared by @wikileaks (https://twitter.com/wikileaks) https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png @AnnCoulter (https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter) https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png @KimDotcom (https://twitter.com/KimDotcom) https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png@RealJamesWoods (https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods) https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png SEND TIPS https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png SEMPER FI TIL I DIE!

[spurraider21]

:lmao

[Pavlov]

A website. Any other lame points?Which website?

[Spurtacular]

❌ Baxter Dmitry ❌ (https://twitter.com/baxter_dmitry)

@baxter_dmitry (https://twitter.com/baxter_dmitry)

https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png Investigative reporter. https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png Articles shared by @wikileaks (https://twitter.com/wikileaks) https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png @AnnCoulter (https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter) https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png @KimDotcom (https://twitter.com/KimDotcom) https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png@RealJamesWoods (https://twitter.com/RealJamesWoods) https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png SEND TIPS https://abs.twimg.com/emoji/v2/72x72/1f1fa-1f1f8.png SEMPER FI TIL I DIE!

So, a guy who triggers you. :lmao

[Spurtacular]

Which website?

ESPN. Which one do you think, numb nuts?

[spurraider21]

So, a guy who triggers you. :lmao
triggered? no i find it hilarious. hence the ":lmao" in the following post

nutjobs are hilarious

[Pavlov]

ESPN. Which one do you think, numb nuts?What's the name of the website where you ended up when you typed in "yournewswire.com"?

[Pavlov]

triggered? no i find it hilarious. hence the ":lmao" in the following post

nutjobs are hilarioushttps://admin62b4b.davidicke.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/download-1-4-1-768x576.png

[Spurtacular]

triggered? no i find it hilarious. hence the ":lmao" in the following post

nutjobs are hilarious

Hitler believed he was the rational one, too.

:lmao Lite

[Spurtacular]

:cry Muh object lessons :cry

[Pavlov]

I accept your white flag, derp.

[Pavlov]

Hitler believed he was the rational one, too.

:lmao LiteYou believe yournewswire.com is real news.

:lmao derp

[Spurtacular]

I accept your white flag, derp.

I accept that you've failed yet again to state your point.

:rollin

[Spurtacular]

You believe yournewswire.com is real news.

:lmao derp

You still haven't said how it isn't, tbh.

[Pavlov]

I accept that you've failed yet again to state your point.

:rollinIt's a fake news site.

You fell for it.

:rollin

[Pavlov]

You still haven't said how it isn't, tbh.I've said how it is a fake news site that had to change its name.

You saw it and you can't even admit they changed their name.

:lmao derp

[boutons_deux]

4 Children Among 5 Confirmed Cases Of Measles In Texas

https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2019/02/05/4-children-5-cases-measles-texas/

[Spurtacular]

:cry But muh blanket declarations :cry

[Spurtacular]

I've said how it is a fake news site that had to change its name.


That doesn't prove anything. Websites change names all the time.

:lmao Psychopav

[Pavlov]

That doesn't prove anything. Websites change names all the time.

:lmao PsychopavOn Saturday, the domain YourNewsWire.com started to reroute to newspunch.com. News Punch has a different tagline: “Where mainstream fears to tread.” Sinclair Treadway, who runs the site with Adl-Tabatabai, said the site had to rebrand after its reputation and money-making abilities were affected by negative publicity and Facebook’s fact-checking program.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-05/facebook-tamped-down-on-hoax-sites-but-polarization-thrives

:lmao derp

[Spurtacular]

On Saturday, the domain YourNewsWire.com started to reroute to newspunch.com. News Punch has a different tagline: “Where mainstream fears to tread.” Sinclair Treadway, who runs the site with Adl-Tabatabai, said the site had to rebrand after its reputation and money-making abilities were affected by negative publicity and Facebook’s fact-checking program.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-05/facebook-tamped-down-on-hoax-sites-but-polarization-thrives

:lmao derp

:lmao Promoting punditry and spin as proof of something.
:lmao Psychopav

[Pavlov]

:lmao Promoting punditry and spin as proof of something.
:lmao Psychopav
They said why they changed their name.

That's a fact.

[Spurtacular]

They said why they changed their name.

That's a fact.

The pundits did.

[spurraider21]

The pundits did.
No, the guy who runs yournewswire said it. Read the 2 line quote.

[Spurtacular]

No, the guy who runs yournewswire said it. Read the 2 line quote.

Being vague like your mentor won't get it done. He said what to prove what in line 2 of what? Just use your words.

[Pavlov]

Being vague Sinclair Treadway, who runs the site with Adl-Tabatabai, said the site had to rebrand after its reputation and money-making abilities were affected by negative publicity and Facebook’s fact-checking program.

What part of that do you not understand, derp?

Use your words.

[Spurtacular]

Sinclair Treadway, who runs the site with Adl-Tabatabai, said the site had to rebrand after its reputation and money-making abilities were affected by negative publicity and Facebook’s fact-checking program.

What part of that do you not understand, derp?

Use your words.

According to a third party source. You're conveniently overlooking that.

:lmao Pyschopav's fakes news to prove something is fake news.

[Pavlov]

According to a third party source. You're conveniently overlooking that.

:lmao Pyschopav's fakes news to prove something is fake news.Do you think yournewswire is real news?

Yes or no.

[TeyshaBlue]

Derp is Boutonseque in his pathlogical inability to be wrong.

[boutons_deux]

Measles cases in Europe tripled last year
https://www.bbc.com/news/health-47157020

[Nother Level]

Rightwing nutjobs!

https://www.studyfinds.org/half-parents-worry-flu-shot-makes-children-sick/

[Pavlov]

I'm sure some of those nutjobs are left-wing.

[Nother Level]

I'm sure some of those nutjobs are left-wing.

Nope. Teabaggers all the way!

[boutons_deux]

Derp is Boutonseque in his pathlogical inability to be wrong.

TB :lol where do I sent your rent bill?

[Pavlov]

Nope. Teabaggers all the way!No.

Do you think the flu shot is one big conspiracy?

Yes or no.

[Nother Level]

No.

Do you think the flu shot is one big conspiracy?

Yes or no.

Pu-shah!

[boutons_deux]

We 10Ms, 100Ms! of can't agree on what is accepted as reality, is confirmed by any means "true", then anything goes, and society falls apart.

Anything goes includes fucking so-called Christians believe Trash was sent by God to do good shit.

Religious people are especially prone, having been indoctrinated with mysteries, supernatural shit, made-up religious shit, to believe just about any fucking thing.

[Pavlov]

Pu-shah!White flag accepted.

[Sir Johnny]

No.

Do you think the flu shot is one big conspiracy?

Yes or no.


Dude, always messing with somebody aren't ya?

[Pavlov]

The best people....
1095760524023861253