west coast ports potentially about to get shut down

[CosmicCowboy]

crazy stuff.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-05/catastrophic-shutdown-americas-supply-chain-looms-west-coast-port-worker-talks-break



The association of shipping lines, terminal operators and stevedores made public details of its contract offer, including 3 percent annual raises over five years, retaining employer-paid health care, and raising pensions by 11 percent. The average dockworker now makes $147,000 a year in salary, plus $35,000 a year in employer-paid health care and an annual pension of $80,000, according to an association press release.

Greedy bastards are really abusing those poor employees!

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/pictures/picture-5.jpg Submitted by Tyler Durden on 02/05/2015 14:25 -0500lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Sorry. Why is that funny?

[ChumpDumper]

Sorry. Why is that funny?Maybe you don't know who Tyler Durden is.

[tlongII]

I think Tyler Durden is the name of the character in Fight Club.

[tlongII]

But that's irrelevant because the gist of the story is true.

[CosmicCowboy]

Oh

Ok

Smh

[ChumpDumper]

But that's irrelevant because the gist of the story is true.According to the association press release.

[tlongII]

According to the association press release.

According to information that's been released to the press here many times.

[ChumpDumper]

According to information that's been released to the press here many times.By the association.

Classy move by them.Did they include their executive compensation packages as well?

[tlongII]

By the association.

Classy move by them.Did they include their executive compensation packages as well?

Why would they do that?

[ChumpDumper]

Why would they do that?Exactly.

[CosmicCowboy]

Seriously Chump...those are some very well compensated forklift drivers and their work slowdown is already affecting the economy with a lot of container ships anchored offshore that can't get unloaded. A strike would be devastating. Just because you live in Austin don't think it won't affect you or us.

[ChumpDumper]

Seriously Chump...those are some very well compensated forklift drivers and their work slowdown is already affecting the economy with a lot of container ships anchored offshore that can't get unloaded. A strike would be devastating. Just because you live in Austin don't think it won't affect you or us.How did the last lockout affect you personally?

I don't remember it at all -- and I was living in California at the time.

[boutons_deux]

Goldman-Sachs, as banks are able to buy industrial operations like ports and distribution chains, bought CA port(s) and fucked the truck drivers.

Push back against BigCorp always good, since they'be been pushing down employees for 35 years.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lol boo and chump make such a cute cyber couple.

[ChumpDumper]

:lol boo and chump make such a cute cyber couple.

I'm waiting for your answer, CC -- not more ad hominems.
How did the last lockout affect you personally?

I don't remember it at all -- and I was living in California at the time.

[boutons_deux]

:lol boo and chump make such a cute cyber couple.

you're as relevant as TB :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

That's right chump. Imports and exports don't matter to our economy.

[ChumpDumper]

That's right chump. Imports and exports don't matter to our economy.
I'm still waiting for you to answer the question:

How did the last lockout affect you personally?

I don't remember it at all -- and I was living in California at the time.

[CosmicCowboy]

Silly question chump. Economy was booming and they folded to the unions blackmail before it tanked the economy. Didn't you know that?

[CosmicCowboy]

So chump, do you think they should go on strike because the offer was too skimpy?

[CosmicCowboy]

150k a year plus with great insurance and 80k lifetime pension to drive a forklift isn't anything to sneeze at.

[CosmicCowboy]

I answered your silly question socrachump. Your turn.

[ChumpDumper]

Silly question chump. Economy was booming and they folded to the unions blackmail before it tanked the economy. Didn't you know that?You're saying the economy was booming in September 2002?

I don't think that is an accurate characterization.

[ChumpDumper]

I answered your silly question socrachump. Your turn.I don't believe you know when the last lockout occurred.

Either that or your definition of "booming" is different from pretty much everyone else.

[CosmicCowboy]

Lmao. It was the fucking roaring 20s compared to today. Typical chumpishness.

[TeyshaBlue]

you're as relevant as TB :lol
Still thinking about me?
That's creepy.

[ChumpDumper]

Lmao. It was the fucking roaring 20s compared to today. Typical chumpishness.Was it?

In what way was the third quarter of 2002 right before the lockout like the roaring 20s?

I'll grant you the economy really took off after the lockout neither you nor I noticed at the time even though it apparently cost the economy billions of dollars per day.

Seems like it just wasn't as big a deal as you are selling it to be. You do tend to be rather alarmist after you read the work of folks like Tyler Durden.

[CosmicCowboy]

Damn, how many straw men can you burn in one post? I know you live to be an Internet warrior chump but you are getting really tedious.

[ChumpDumper]

Damn, how many straw men can you burn in one post? I know you live to be an Internet warrior chump but you are getting really tedious.These are your characterizations, CC.

Show me how the economy was booming in the time leading up to the 2002 lockout. There is little out there to suggest that.

[boutons_deux]

These are your characterizations, CC.

Show me how the economy was booming in the time leading up to the 2002 lockout. There is little out there to suggest that.

dickhead said MANY times after the 2000 election that the economy was cratering (subtext: Repugs will be in office but it won't be our fault. We are interested only in ramming through the biggest tax cuts in history for the wealthy and invading Iraq)

[CosmicCowboy]

I posted a news article I thought was relevant. Chump thinks it isn't relevant.

OK.

Quite honestly I couldn't care less what Chump thinks.

Go ahead and declare internet victory Chump.

You know you want to.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao

Chump and Boo make such a cute couple.

[ChumpDumper]

I posted a news article I thought was relevant. Chump thinks it isn't relevant.

OK.

Quite honestly I couldn't care less what Chump thinks.

Go ahead and declare internet victory Chump.

You know you want to.I said Tyler Durden's piece is alarmist, which kind of plays into your general demeanor towards such stories.

You said I would feel a shutdown.

I said I didn't remember the last shutdown at all and asked you how it affected you.

You said it didn't affect you because the economy was booming and the lockout didn't last long.

A quick look back at the third quarter of 2002 suggests the economy was not booming, and Tyler Durden says even a short shutdown would be felt.

So overall, I'm just a bit confused about how scared I am supposed to be about the possible shutdown since neither of us were affected by the last one in a decidedly not booming economy.

[Th'Pusher]

Here's a graph CC. Maybe this will help you explain what you meant when you said the economy was booming before the last lockout

http://www.appraisaleconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/Quarterly-U.S.-GDP-Growth3.png

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

Chump and Boo make such a cute couple.CC always plays internet warrior with such cute ad hominems.

[TheSanityAnnex]

The amount of money/food lost in perishable goods in LA due to containers sitting anchored in the water is mind blowing.

[Th'Pusher]

Frank Sobotka would surely have been able to hammer out a deal had those fucking greeks not cut his throat.

[boutons_deux]

The amount of money/food lost in perishable goods in LA due to containers sitting anchored in the water is mind blowing.

perishable foods travel by plane, or by ship cold/frozen stores.

[TeyshaBlue]

Except the exports rotting while they sit.

[TheSanityAnnex]

perishable foods travel by plane, or by ship cold/frozen stores.
No shit. Do you think perishable food can just sit cold/frozen for weeks/months longer than it is supposed to? My company recovered over $100,000 from insurance claims for 2 containers of fruit that sat in the LA harbor for over a month in December.

[boutons_deux]

No shit. Do you think perishable food can just sit cold/frozen for weeks/months longer than it is supposed to? My company recovered over $100,000 from insurance claims for 2 containers of fruit that sat in the LA harbor for over a month in December.

you right-wing gun fellators are repeatedly stupid. Fresh food isn't refrigerated, frozen food.

fresh fruit sat for two weeks? of course, FRESH fruit and veg don't cross the the oceans because they would be rotten on arrival.

[TheSanityAnnex]

you right-wing gun fellators are repeatedly stupid. Fresh food isn't refrigerated, frozen food.

fresh fruit sat for two weeks? of course, FRESH fruit and veg don't cross the the oceans because they would be rotten on arrival.
You are one ignorant stupid fuck. Fresh fruit isn't refrigerated? Do you think all the trucks semis carrying fruit/veg across the country are running at room temp? Tell me how avocados get here from Chile and Peru and tell me how long the average trip is.

[ChumpDumper]

you right-wing gun fellators are repeatedly stupid. Fresh food isn't refrigerated, frozen food.

fresh fruit sat for two weeks? of course, FRESH fruit and veg don't cross the the oceans because they would be rotten on arrival.I'm going to go with the person actually in the food import/export business on this one.

[Th'Pusher]

I'm going to go with the person actually in the food import/export business on this one.
Yes. Can confirm. The company I work for procures fresh fruit that arrives via sea all the time. Soft fruit from Chile, depending on the season...tons of examples.

[TeyshaBlue]

*slapping sound*

[ChumpDumper]

Here's a graph CC. Maybe this will help you explain what you meant when you said the economy was booming before the last lockout

http://www.appraisaleconomics.com/wp-content/uploads/Quarterly-U.S.-GDP-Growth3.pngThanks for this btw.

Looks like we should absolutely let the ports shut down and then start another war.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Yes. Can confirm. The company I work for procures fresh fruit that arrives via sea all the time. Soft fruit from Chile, depending on the season...tons of examples.we won't even bring Chilean to the west coast anymore. 2 week trip turns into 45 days by the time it gets through LA harbor. The new ports in Mexico will be extremely helpful.

[Th'Pusher]

Thanks for this btw.

Looks like we should absolutely let the ports shut down and then start another war.

My deal with CC is that he just talks out of his ass and when you call him on it, he moves the goal posts, deflects or just looks the other way whistling with his hands in his pockets. Own your bullshit or don't spew it.

[Th'Pusher]

we won't even bring Chilean to the west coast anymore. 2 week trip turns into 45 days by the time it gets through LA harbor. The new ports in Mexico will be extremely helpful.

Yeah, I'm not fully tuned in to the supply chain logistics, but I do know there are several buyers who're sweating this labor standoff. No doubt this fucks shit up, it what gives the unions leverage.

[TheSanityAnnex]

*slapping sound*
He ran off quickly

[TeyshaBlue]

Again.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I wish boutons would tell me where he shopped so I could tell him how "fresh" his items truly are.

[Th'Pusher]

CC ran off pretty promptly too tbh.

[ChumpDumper]

I wish boutons would tell me where he shopped so I could tell him how "fresh" his items truly are.Should I be worried about my baby spinach/kale mix from HEB?

[TheSanityAnnex]

Should I be worried about my baby spinach/kale mix from HEB?

As long as it's not imported it'll be relatively "fresh" at HEB. I do a lot of business with HEB. Finally got to go in one when I was in Texas for Thanksgiving. Went to the one in or near dripping springs, that store was awesome. If I had one near me I would walk around, eat food, and get a buzz for free everyday.

[Winehole23]

TSA, gettin high at the HEB. For free. Everyday.

[Wild Cobra]

crazy stuff.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-05/catastrophic-shutdown-americas-supply-chain-looms-west-coast-port-worker-talks-break



Greedy bastards are really abusing those poor employees!

Somebody's lying here in that report. I know a guy that does this job at here in Portland. Dock workers don't make that much. If for maybe a week, the average dock worker made $147k annualized, in California, then that would be by working maximum overtime. Maybe... before Christmas season...

With overtime, its uncommon for any to hit $100k. These guys top out at something like $70 k normal salary here in Oregon.

[Wild Cobra]

150k a year plus with great insurance and 80k lifetime pension to drive a forklift isn't anything to sneeze at.
Is it true because it's on the internet?

[Wild Cobra]

How about someone finding a union wage chart please.

[Wild Cobra]

I found a 2012 wage scale for San Francisco. Third shift max experience tops out at $63.17/hr.

Makes that average $147 k really seem like BS.

First shift max experience is $39.48/hr.

Lowest experience is $33.68/hr to 53.89/hr.

Remember, this is CA. Oregon is a bit less.

http://www.ilwu63.net/pdfs/mou_46pp.pdf

[boutons_deux]

Goldman Sacks deregulated, fucking the 99% everywhere, all out War on Employees

Goldman Sachs Target as Protests Curb Some West Coast Shipping

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-12-12/goldman-sachs-top-target-of-occupy-protests-at-west-coast-ports

[CosmicCowboy]

Meh. I just posted the article, I didn't write it.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Goldman Sacks deregulated, fucking the 99% everywhere, all out War on Employees

Goldman Sachs Target as Protests Curb Some West Coast Shipping

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2011-12-12/goldman-sachs-top-target-of-occupy-protests-at-west-coast-ports

These stupid fucking OWS protestors are hurting the 99%ers who work these ports

And how was your fresh food last night boots? lol

[hater]

the port problem is mainly quantity vs low resources (ppl, fork lift equipment and containers)

I know off experience. I transport merchandise through the ports daily. It was bad in the holiday season when the delay was about 3 weeks. getting better. non issue imo

[boutons_deux]

These stupid fucking OWS protestors are hurting the 99%ers who work these ports

And how was your fresh food last night boots? lol

you're full of shit, employers, workers are striking, not OWS.

[TheSanityAnnex]

your full of shit

Did you even read the article you posted?

[Wild Cobra]

Did you even read the article you posted?
When I did a search, the dock workers union was asking the port not to strike!

[TheSanityAnnex]

So boutons did not even read the article he spammed, shocker.

[TheSanityAnnex]

you're full of shit, employers, workers are striking, not OWS.

Might want to read your article dipshit.

[boutons_deux]

So boutons did not even read the article he spammed, shocker.

OWS is involved, but it's the workers, truckers, etc, suffering under Goldman Sacks conditions.

[boutons_deux]

and WTF is wrong with OWS? they're against you fucking right-wingers' much-loved, venereated BigCorp buddies

[Wild Cobra]

and WTF is wrong with OWS? they're against you fucking right-wingers' much-loved, venereated BigCorp buddies

It seems OWS is why the dock workers aren't working right now, at leasrt by your article.

Are these union workers part of the 1% you despise?

[TheSanityAnnex]

"Terminals in Oakland, California; Portland, Oregon, and Seattle were blocked at least part of the day by protesters, angering some of the truck drivers and port workers they professed to support with their demonstrations."

“I just lost $400 today,” said Mark Hebert, a long-haul trucker for Salt Lake City-based C.R. England Inc., who was stranded in Oakland with 36,000 pounds of Kansas beef bound for Asia. “These people say they represent the 99 percent. They don’t represent me.”

"Some demonstrations continued into the night. As a result, no longshoremen were dispatched for second shifts in Oakland or Seattle, said Craig Merrilees, a spokesman for the International Longshore and Warehouse Union."

“The terminals did not order ILWU labor for the three vessels berthed tonight, due to protest activity,” the Port of Oakland said in a statement late yesterday. “Operations at several of the port’s seven terminals experienced disruptions and delays today, and a few chose to close early to avoid further disruption.”

"About 20 longshoremen in Longview, Washington, were sent home after concerns “for their health and safety” when 50 to 60 protesters blocked the port’s main gate, said Ashley Helenberg, a spokeswoman.

“They are targeting the wrong people,” Mike Gardner, 42, a crane operator from Portland, said in an interview. “The corporations are still making money today. We are not.”
In Oakland, Jairo Osorio, 43, an independent contractor for trucker C.R. England, said he would have to sleep in his truck overnight and make his delivery today. "

“They were successful in shutting down the port. Hurting the company? No. All this stuff is waiting to be unloaded tomorrow,” Osorio said."

[boutons_deux]

Are these union workers part of the 1% you despise?

:lol

goddam, you right wingers are stupid. OWS is FORCING workers to strike? :lol

[TheSanityAnnex]

lol stupid
Fresh food isn't refrigerated, frozen food.

fresh fruit sat for two weeks? of course, FRESH fruit and veg don't cross the the oceans because they would be rotten on arrival.

[boutons_deux]

United Steelworkers rally in downtown Houston after rejecting Shell contract offer (http://fuelfix.com/blog/2015/02/06/united-steelworkers-rally-in-downtown-houston-after-rejecting-shell-contract-offer/)


http://fuelfix.com/blog/2015/02/06/united-steelworkers-rally-in-downtown-houston-after-rejecting-shell-contract-offer/

[Wild Cobra]

United Steelworkers rally in downtown Houston after rejecting Shell contract offer (http://fuelfix.com/blog/2015/02/06/united-steelworkers-rally-in-downtown-houston-after-rejecting-shell-contract-offer/)


http://fuelfix.com/blog/2015/02/06/united-steelworkers-rally-in-downtown-houston-after-rejecting-shell-contract-offer/
What does the steelworkers have to do with dockworkers?

[boutons_deux]

What does the steelworkers have to do with dockworkers?

unionized employees pushing back an BigCorp oppressors

[Wild Cobra]

unionized employees pushing back an BigCorp oppressors

LOL...

You're twisted!

[Sportcamper]

Cosmic-The article is bogus & reeks of management propaganda...You are a business owner who employs skilled workers…Nobody hands out 150k jobs to skilled workers…The Longshoreman earning 150k to 250k are “highly skilled workers”..Engineers, Tug Boat Captains & heavy duty crane operators… The dock workers that I know “skilled workers”, electricians, maintenance workers with 15 to 25 years on the job earn between 50k & 75k which includes overtime…The forklift operator earning +100k is really a myth…About 15 years ago the Long Beach Dock workers agreed to a reduced pay contract…(Give_Backs)...Older workers were grandfathered at the old pay rate…New hires & employees with less tenure worked at the reduced pay rate…There were some forklift drivers who were allowed to work until retirement at the old rate, delivering doughnuts & coffee while earning 100k plus, but they are now all gone…Today’s So Cal dock workers have a fast pace physically intense work environment…Many of whom are seeking easier employment in the entertainment industry…

http://www.simplyhired.com/salaries-k-dock-worker-l-long-beach-ca-jobs.html

[MultiTroll]

I found a 2012 wage scale for San Francisco. Third shift max experience tops out at $63.17/hr.

Makes that average $147 k really seem like BS.
123K a year at 40 hours per week with no overtime for 3rd shift.
Which i'm sure the union probably schemes up plenty of overtime?

For some ape driving a forklift? :lol
Edit okay i just read SportsCampers post.
So they just recently got rid of 100K donut and coffee delivers? Lots of cred there, Union.

[Wild Cobra]

123K a year at 40 hours per week with no overtime for 3rd shift.
Which i'm sure the union probably schemes up plenty of overtime?

For some ape driving a forklift? :lol
Edit okay i just read SportsCampers post.
So they just recently got rid of 100K donut and coffee delivers? Lots of cred there, Union.

No doubt, but to say the average is $147k...

[boutons_deux]

How Goldman Sachs and Other Companies Exploit Port Truck Drivers

The culprit, as with so much of our financial woes today, stems from deregulation. As David Bensman of Rutgers University writes in the report (http://www.demos.org/sites/default/files/publications/Port%20Trucking%20Down%20the%20Low%20Road.pdf) Port Trucking Down the Low Road: A Sad Story of Deregulation:


It is ironic that port trucking has become the poster child for destructive deregulation, because the passage of the bill that deregulated the trucking industry, The Motor Carrier Act of 1980, was hailed by liberals and the business community alike as a triumph of policy reform. Senator [Ted] Kennedy and Ralph Nader led the reformers who charged that trucking regulation meant high rates for consumers, and monopoly profits for businesses. Large shippers lobbied Congress for an end to the rate setting and route planning which limited competition and drove up the cost of freight transport. Civil Rights organizations argued that deregulation would lower barriers that impeded African-Americans from gaining a just share of decent trucking jobs. Despite these high hopes, deregulation has wrecked the drayage industry.

After deregulation, union companies were forced out of the market, and new companies found a way to squeeze even greater profit at the expense of workers. They sold their trucks back to drivers, Bensman explains, and then made them "independent contractors," meaning that the drivers would not make an hourly wage but instead would be be paid per load, and companies would no longer be responsible for costs such as health care, social security, worker's compensation, pensions, and payroll taxes.

The report (http://nelp.3cdn.net/000beaf922628dfea1_cum6b0fab.pdf), The Big Rig: Poverty, Pollution, and the Misclassification of Truck Drivers at America's Ports by Rebecca Smith, Dr. David Bensman, and Paul Alexander Marvy, found that just four years after the industry was deregulated, wages dropped 15-20 percent and fell to 30 percent lower by 1995. According to the report, today contract drivers make an estimated $11.91 per hour, compared with $14.71 for employees.

Even despite the several dollar difference in pay each hour, real wages for contractors are even lower — closer to $8 an hour.

"While these figures represent net earnings after truck expenses, they do not include tax burdens, a fact that widens the gap between independents and employees," according to The Big Rig's authors (http://nelp.3cdn.net/000beaf922628dfea1_cum6b0fab.pdf).

"Independent contractors must pay the employer's portion of Social Security, Medicare, and similar taxes, as well as their own." Drivers surveyed for their report also worked nearly 60 hours a week.

"Average net earnings before FICA, income, and other taxes was $28,783 per year for contractors and $35,000 per year for employees.

Minimum wage violations appear to be widespread," they wrote.

http://www.alternet.org/story/153393/how_goldman_sachs_and_other_companies_exploit_port _truck_drivers_%E2%80%94_occupy_protesters_plan_to _shut_down_west_coast_ports_in_protest


As always, deregulation screws employees and consumers, while enriching employers and capitalists like Goldman.

Goldman, allowed by banking deregulation to buy non-financial corporations, didn't buy into the port operations business for charity, but to vampire-squid suck $Bs out of it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

LOL...

You're twisted!

You work in a union shop and claim not to hear other offers because they have it so good for you. Then you ahve your political position.

[Wild Cobra]

You work in a union shop and claim not to hear other offers because they have it so good for you. Then you ahve your political position.

Wow.

Don't you ever get another persons position correct?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Wow.

Don't you ever get another persons position correct?

Do you work in a union shop?

Do you ignore other job offers due to how good you have it at your job?

This reminds me when you were saying that you were misunderstood in being called a racist and then:


I don't like most black people. There are very few who I have met that grew up in a cultural setting I have any respect for. Most I have met are out right thugs, and lack integrity. I could say I don't like black people, but there are some exceptions. If I based all my decisions on statistics, I would stay clear of blacks.

[boutons_deux]

Map: The Most Common Job In Every State

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2015/02/05/382664837/map-the-most-common-job-in-every-state?utm_source=npr_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20150208&utm_campaign=mostemailed&utm_term=nprnews

[Wild Cobra]

Do you ignore other job offers due to how good you have it at your job?



I don't look for a different job. I deal with the union BS. As old as I am now, I don't want to start over ion a job.

You really should stop ASSuming.

[Wild Cobra]

Map: The Most Common Job In Every State

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2015/02/05/382664837/map-the-most-common-job-in-every-state?utm_source=npr_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20150208&utm_campaign=mostemailed&utm_term=nprnews




Shouldn't Oregon be Mary Jane cultivator?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I don't look for a different job. I deal with the union BS. As old as I am now, I don't want to start over ion a job.

You really should stop ASSuming.

Well seeing that you first made these claims bragging about how you didn't want to leave your job and ignored other offers first at least 5 years ago either you are stupid, lying, or both.

[boutons_deux]

Shouldn't Oregon be Mary Jane cultivator?

Oregon's potheads seem to be losing, or at least being "rolled" back

"One proposed change to Measure 91 would give local governments the ability to prohibit sales or impose taxes.

Another proposed change could affect the state’s existing medical marijuana law. It would transfer oversight of medical marijuana dispensaries from the Oregon Health Authority to the Oregon Liquor Control Commission."

http://www.opb.org/news/article/new-bills-could-change-oregons-marijuana-law/

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.drugscience.org/Archive/bcr2/cashcrops.html

Oregon:

Marijuana: $473,972

Hay: $346,751

Wheat: $195,018

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://www.drugscience.org/Archive/bcr2/cashcrops.html

Oregon:

Marijuana: $473,972

Hay: $346,751

Wheat: $195,018

That data is a decade old.

[Wild Cobra]

That data is a decade old.

I seriously doubt it changed much. Do you?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I seriously doubt it changed much. Do you?

I don't know. Seeing that you have zero agricultural experience, neither do you.