The Bigs Problem

[TD 21]

The big rotation is in absolute shambles . . .

- Though Splitter has looked better the past two games, he inexplicably continues to come off the bench and have his minutes managed even more so than usual. He might yet regain his previous form this season.

- But I don't think Diaw will. He's predictably looked out of gas and terrible all season. He was the one who made the awkwardness of not having a true PF, that's of starting caliber, work last season.

- Meanwhile, Bonner looks flat out done. Fortunately, opposing coaches don't seem to have realized that they could probably get away with having their players pay him at least minimal respect at this point, but eventually they will, at which point he'll immediately cease all usefulness.

- For all of Baynes' improvement, he still can't protect the rim or space the floor. The fact that he's occasionally hitting a mid ranger doesn't mean he's spacing the floor, since defenders don't bother defending him.

I don't mind playing five right now, since none of these four has warranted consistent minutes and since they need to manage Duncan's and Diaw's minutes, but it's time to stop playing musical chairs with the starting spot opposite Duncan's. Not just for continuity's sake, but because it changes things so drastically depending on who it is.

I'd rather Kirilenko than either, but I'm to the point now where I'd look into Stoudemire or even the corpse of Garnett if they're bought out. I know Stein reported the Mavs are the favorites for the former and his weakness are obviously well documented, but still. If what we've seen to this point from Splitter, Diaw and Bonner, is what we're going to get the rest of the way, they're screwed.

[jeebus]

Non issue.

[ElNono]

I don't think Pop is going to stop tinkering until somewhere in March... that's normally when he settles on a rotation (barring rest/injury). I don't think we're going to make any moves. I suspect he'll play it like last playoffs and start Tiago/Diaw/Bonner depending on the matchups.

[spurraider21]

if we really need another big we can sign Michael Finley to play the 4 again

[apalisoc_9]

The obvious solution is getting Splitter back in some sort of rhythm.

Baynes is a horrible paint defender and his ability to shoot really doesn't spread the floor..

Why go away from what worked Pop?

[TD 21]

Splitter back in rhythm isn't enough though, since even in peak form, he and Duncan can be an awkward fit in certain match-ups, which along with his inexplicable lack of stamina, limits his minutes.

Diaw and to a lesser extent, Bonner, are my concerns and unfortunately, I don't see an uptick, at least not a significant one, coming.

[apalisoc_9]

Splitter back in rhythm isn't enough though, since even in peak form, he and Duncan can be an awkward fit in certain match-ups, which along with his inexplicable lack of stamina, limits his minutes.

Diaw and to a lesser extent, Bonner, are my concerns and unfortunately, I don't see an uptick, at least not a significant one, coming.

I can see Pop playing Parker-Ginobili-Green-Leonard-Duncan, if Diaw is not back come playoff time..

I know that would force Kawhi to play 40+ minutes though.

Still 32 games..The spurs are most likely going to stay PAT.

[Robz4000]

I really and truly believe Diaw is cruising and he'll start to turn it on post-ASB. If not then Pop should give him the Parker treatment and sit him a month. Either way, the Spurs need to make a move for a back-up 3/small ball 4 or a 4 athletic enough to guard 3s when needed.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

wtf do you mean Baynes cannot protect the rim? He isn't a shot blocker due to mediocre hands but his rotations are solid and he forces a lot of bad shots by staying vertical and not lunging. He forced Stuckey and Hill into bad shots in this way.

I'm going to guess you are looking at block numbers and think that tells the story.

[mkurts]

Splitter and Diaw racing each other to the bottom.

Hard to believe that Baynes is outplaying them two ...

[Sean Cagney]

Bonner looks flat out done? He has been done :lol The fact he is even starting now or a part of the rotation makes me upset because last year he was hardly in the games a tall and the year before his minutes fell alot as well, the result was deep playoff runs. We saw what happened 09-011 with this bum getting major minutes and I hope that doesn't become an issue again to be honest.

[TD 21]

I can see Pop playing Parker-Ginobili-Green-Leonard-Duncan, if Diaw is not back come playoff time..

I know that would force Kawhi to play 40+ minutes though.

Still 32 games..The spurs are most likely going to stay PAT.

Too small in a lot of match-ups and it's not even about whether Leonard can defend a lot of PF's, because he'll generally guard the best opposing wing and Green the second, so Ginobili would have to guard/box out said PF's.

Plus, they're more comfortable running the offense (whenever it is they actually start running it in more than fits and starts) with two bigs, which was apparently the reason for staying big in the '14 Finals far more than in the '13 Finals and why in general they've mostly gone away from small ball the past two seasons.

[apalisoc_9]

Too small in a lot of match-ups and it's not even about whether Leonard can defend a lot of PF's, because he'll generally guard the best opposing wing and Green the second, so Ginobili would have to guard/box out said PF's.

Plus, they're more comfortable running the offense (whenever it is they actually start running it in more than fits and starts) with two bigs, which was apparently the reason for staying big in the '14 Finals far more than in the '13 Finals and why in general they've mostly gone away from small ball the past two seasons.

Oh I 100% agree..I was simply suggesting a last minute replacement rotation....

I think Ginobili xan guard opposing wing's just fine..Green is an elite defender.

I have no idea what to do with Parker's matchup..Maybe sit him during defense in the last minute or so?

I just don't think there's any room for a trade so we either hope for diaw to return or be forced to play Kawhi 40+ minutes.

[ca®lo]

Let's get NAZR Or Rasho back

[TD 21]

Oh I 100% agree..I was simply suggesting a last minute replacement rotation....

I think Ginobili xan guard opposing wing's just fine..Green is an elite defender.

I have no idea what to do with Parker's matchup..Maybe sit him during defense in the last minute or so?

I just don't think there's any room for a trade so we either hope for diaw to return or be forced to play Kawhi 40+ minutes.

Ginobili would have to guard/box out opposing PF's if they go small regardless of match-up, so long as the team has a big wing that they need Leonard to defend.

I don't see a trade coming either, but I still say they've got a good chance at Kirilenko, since Prince is more than likely Clippers bound.

[moisaenz]

The big rotation is in absolute shambles . . .

- Though Splitter has looked better the past two games, he inexplicably continues to come off the bench and have his minutes managed even more so than usual. He might yet regain his previous form this season.

- But I don't think Diaw will. He's predictably looked out of gas and terrible all season. He was the one who made the awkwardness of not having a true PF, that's of starting caliber, work last season.

- Meanwhile, Bonner looks flat out done. Fortunately, opposing coaches don't seem to have realized that they could probably get away with having their players pay him at least minimal respect at this point, but eventually they will, at which point he'll immediately cease all usefulness.

- For all of Baynes' improvement, he still can't protect the rim or space the floor. The fact that he's occasionally hitting a mid ranger doesn't mean he's spacing the floor, since defenders don't bother defending him.

I don't mind playing five right now, since none of these four has warranted consistent minutes and since they need to manage Duncan's and Diaw's minutes, but it's time to stop playing musical chairs with the starting spot opposite Duncan's. Not just for continuity's sake, but because it changes things so drastically depending on who it is.

I'd rather Kirilenko than either, but I'm to the point now where I'd look into Stoudemire or even the corpse of Garnett if they're bought out. I know Stein reported the Mavs are the favorites for the former and his weakness are obviously well documented, but still. If what we've seen to this point from Splitter, Diaw and Bonner, is what we're going to get the rest of the way, they're screwed.
Garnett? seriously... duncan would ask for a trade if Spurs sign Garnett..

[apalisoc_9]

Kirilennko is done..

He's way worse than Diaw and hasn't played in ages....

[TD 21]

Kirilennko is done..

He's way worse than Diaw and hasn't played in ages....

It's definitely more likely than not, but there's no way of knowing for sure. He had a lingering back issue last season and barely played and obviously he's played even less this season.

It's worth signing him and giving him a look as the fourth big. At worst, he'd provide a semblance of Leonard insurance.

[Richie]

The problem is jumpshots, plain and simple.

Bonner is useless if he isn't hitting 3's at am elite rate, and his current 36% average certainly isn't that. Compare it to his near 44% average over the past 4 years and you see the problem.

Diaw is having an even worse shooting season, hitting only 30% from 3. That drop (down from 40% last year) combined with him taking those shots more often (19% of his shots last year to 30% this year) is problematic.

Timmy is having his worst mid range shooting season in nearly a decade, hitting only 35% between 16ft and the 3 point line. This is a worrying trend as he was 37% last year from 40%+ the previous 6 years. He's taking that shot at a far lower rate, accounting for only 11% of his shots whereas is had accounted for over a quarter of his shots the past 3 years.

This Spurs team is based around pace and space, and none of the bigs are giving anyone space with reluctance to take or inability to make jumpshots. Combine that being 19th in the league in pace, mainly due to Parker being out, and you can see why we've struggled mightily on offence.

[wildchild]

Diaw is having an even worse shooting season, hitting only 30% from 3. That drop (down from 40% last year) combined with him taking those shots more often (19% of his shots last year to 30% this year) is problematic.

His defense has been bad, too. Sadly it seems like Boris doesn't get the state of emergency of his game.

[FkLA]

I'm a big Matty Ice fan but it's becoming increasingly apparent that his shot is gone. Not sure if it was strategic but West was actually sagging away from him on several possessions. What is Rashard Lewis up to? If Pop insists on a 4 that can stretch the floor and do little else, I'd much rather roll with Lewis tbh.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Notice OP cannot justify their comments on Baynes defense.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

Bonner looks flat out done? He has been done :lol The fact he is even starting now or a part of the rotation makes me upset because last year he was hardly in the games a tall and the year before his minutes fell alot as well, the result was deep playoff runs. We saw what happened 09-011 with this bum getting major minutes and I hope that doesn't become an issue again to be honest.

lol, good shit.

[Uriel]

I'm not terribly worried about Diaw. Obviously, his spectacular play last season was due, in large part, to the motivation he had from a contract year. Now that he's been rewarded with a fat new contract, he's been coasting like crazy. It doesn't help that his role in the rotation has been erratic.

On the whole, I believe his coasting stems from his naturally laid-back personality. Once his role in the rotation is firmly established and the bright lights of the playoffs come on, he should play significantly better.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

i also think it's funny that Blayers takes so long to come to mind.

[DrunkTXLabrat]

I'm not terribly worried about Diaw. Obviously, his spectacular play last season was due, in large part, to the motivation he had from a contract year. Now that he's been rewarded with a fat new contract, he's been coasting like crazy. It doesn't help that his role in the rotation has been erratic.

On the whole, I believe his coasting stems from his naturally laid-back personality. Once his role in the rotation is firmly established and the bright lights of the playoffs come on, he should play significantly better.

i like this point. I think the Spurs are dicking around with Diaws role just like they do their young. Diaw should be the general starter with Tim. I think the bench big pair should be generally be Tiago and Anderson. Save Baynes for Tim and Tiago down time, get Anderson hard at work as Diaw 2.0. Forget Ayers and Bonner. Green and Daye coulda been Andeson aint gettin it insurance. Bertans too.

[Brazil]

I'm not terribly worried about Diaw. Obviously, his spectacular play last season was due, in large part, to the motivation he had from a contract year. Now that he's been rewarded with a fat new contract, he's been coasting like crazy. It doesn't help that his role in the rotation has been erratic.

On the whole, I believe his coasting stems from his naturally laid-back personality. Once his role in the rotation is firmly established and the bright lights of the playoffs come on, he should play significantly better.

:lol

Diaw issue is fatigue... dude had a long season last year, he played summer ball with France and is one the few players who did not miss a bunch of games this year. Tim, Danny, Boris, Manu are getting tired to carry the load while kawhi, TP, Mills, Tiago etc missed a bunch of games.

[BillMc]

:lol

Diaw issue is fatigue... dude had a long season last year, he played summer ball with France and is one the few players who did not miss a bunch of games this year. Tim, Danny, Boris, Manu are getting tired to carry the load while kawhi, TP, Mills, Tiago etc missed a bunch of games.

A lot of truth in this. If it were a typical Spurs year and we could risk throwing games, I suspect Boris would get a few games off. But the standings are so congested even ancient Timmy isn't getting many breaks.

[EVAY]

The problem is jumpshots, plain and simple.

Bonner is useless if he isn't hitting 3's at am elite rate, and his current 36% average certainly isn't that. Compare it to his near 44% average over the past 4 years and you see the problem.

Diaw is having an even worse shooting season, hitting only 30% from 3. That drop (down from 40% last year) combined with him taking those shots more often (19% of his shots last year to 30% this year) is problematic.

Timmy is having his worst mid range shooting season in nearly a decade, hitting only 35% between 16ft and the 3 point line. This is a worrying trend as he was 37% last year from 40%+ the previous 6 years. He's taking that shot at a far lower rate, accounting for only 11% of his shots whereas is had accounted for over a quarter of his shots the past 3 years.

This Spurs team is based around pace and space, and none of the bigs are giving anyone space with reluctance to take or inability to make jumpshots. Combine that being 19th in the league in pace, mainly due to Parker being out, and you can see why we've struggled mightily on offence.

Excellent take.

Cogent, concise and insightful. Well done! A genuine contribution to a basketball discussion!

Please post more. ( I'm dead serious - please don't imagine that my praise is sarcasm or anything - this was spot on, backed up with stats and from a great overview position. Some more posts like this from more folks would go far to offsetting the adolescent emotional outbursts that have come to characterize this forum of late.)

Thank you.

[EVAY]

Pop was really praising Baynes last night after the game, which is pretty unusual for Pop. He noted his athleticism, his willingness to go out on smaller players, and his general effort. Notably perhaps, he did NOT praise his rebounding or shot blocking, but I think the point is that Pop is seeing value.

That is one of the best things about Pop, imo. He sees what a player CAN give, what he is best at, puts that player in position to do those things and thus contribute to the team' play in a positive way, and doesn't expect most players to be 'total players'. Because most aren't. Folks like Tim who are excellent at offense and defense (career-wise anyway) are exceedingly rare and are generally called superstars because they are so rare.

Baynes has developed enormously since he arrived here. He may still have some upside. I don't think that upside is in the area of bball i.q., but I notice Tim spending more time with him coaching him, and that has to help.

[in2deep]

The problem is jumpshots, plain and simple.

Bonner is useless if he isn't hitting 3's at am elite rate, and his current 36% average certainly isn't that. Compare it to his near 44% average over the past 4 years and you see the problem.

Diaw is having an even worse shooting season, hitting only 30% from 3. That drop (down from 40% last year) combined with him taking those shots more often (19% of his shots last year to 30% this year) is problematic.

Timmy is having his worst mid range shooting season in nearly a decade, hitting only 35% between 16ft and the 3 point line. This is a worrying trend as he was 37% last year from 40%+ the previous 6 years. He's taking that shot at a far lower rate, accounting for only 11% of his shots whereas is had accounted for over a quarter of his shots the past 3 years.

This Spurs team is based around pace and space, and none of the bigs are giving anyone space with reluctance to take or inability to make jumpshots. Combine that being 19th in the league in pace, mainly due to Parker being out, and you can see why we've struggled mightily on offence.

good points. BUT the problem is not jumpshots. That is just a symptom.

the real problem is we have no penetrating force. Parker used to be our main force, our wrecking ball per se and now that he is struggling, it affects our midrange/outside shooters.

I'm afraid unless Parker starts improving, and greatly nothing will fix the problem. Sure, Manu, Belli and sometimes Kawhi are decent at going into the paing but truth is, without Parker, we have no true penetrating weapon in our team.

[Chinook]

I do wonder if Bargnani is the team's eventual target. The dude looks good on paper (seems to be a fit on the bench next to Splitter/Diaw), but he's always been terrible in actual games. I could see the Spurs taking an Italian tour with Messina on board, though.

[TD 21]

I do wonder if Bargnani is the team's eventual target. The dude looks good on paper (seems to be a fit on the bench next to Splitter/Diaw), but he's always been terrible in actual games. I could see the Spurs taking an Italian tour with Messina on board, though.

I doubt it. You'd have to go back to '11 to find the last time he was a decent three-point shooter, which is his supposed strength. Outside of that, he's quite possibly the lowest IQ, lowest confidence, most passionless player I've ever seen, in addition to being the worst rebounding 7 footer ever. To top it all off, he basically hasn't played in over a year.

I suspect he's done in the NBA. He'll probably have to make a team out of camp, something a guy who's accustomed to making $10-11M annually, who's still of prime age and who never seemed all that thrilled to be in the league at any point, probably won't want to do.

[ElNono]

I do wonder if Bargnani is the team's eventual target. The dude looks good on paper (seems to be a fit on the bench next to Splitter/Diaw), but he's always been terrible in actual games. I could see the Spurs taking an Italian tour with Messina on board, though.

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/092009/1253886001_office-no.gif