Why the Thunder Will Never Win a Title with Westbrook

[DMC]

If you saw the ASG you saw Russell Westbrook go for 41 points on what could be called a one man show, only it wasn't a one man show. Russell had Durant on the floor quite often, and had other teammates as well who weren't named Thabo or Serge or Nick or Reggie. He didn't care at all. Russell made up his mind that he was going to win a pointless ASG MVP award rather than have fun with the group, that he was going to flex his alpha muscle in a meaningless game while being unseeded as an NBA player. Kevin Durant has done that a number of times, and James Harden seems a bit prone to it as well even though he and Steph were mixing it up a bit.

Russ is a ball of energy, of that there's no doubt, and he's a prolific scorer who can get to the rim at will. He's a point guard however, and on a team with the likes of the reigning regular season MVP and enough offensive help to create a dynamic offensive scheme. He won't do that, he'll choose instead of have triple doubles and fool's gold performances to boost his marketability with the sponsors. If that's his goal and he's thought it out, he's going about it the right way. The media and many fans seem to love ball hawgs and chuckers, and likes to label people as unstoppable even if they never won anything of importance (meaning something stopped them). Russ isn't unstoppable if you mean in a basketball sense. He stops himself all the time from having a competitive team.

That two man show they run in OKC should be a one man show, and Russ should be involving others. It's ok that Russ can score when he needs to, but he doesn't accept that anyone else on the team ever needs to score. Surely someone will mention his assists but he's a bailout passer, doesn't run an offense at all.

Some of you might think you'd choose Russ to PG your team if you built one, but you'd just be SC highlights bound, not Finals bound. When they did make the Finals, it was because other players stepped up. The Thunder will never win a ring with Russ because Russ has Kobe mentality, but OKC doesn't have LA attractiveness and they have proven they are not willing to pay to stack a team.

Yes, Lebron was doing the same thing on the other side. He wants every award available, always, because like Russ, he thinks these things add up to greatness when it's all said and done. They don't. Some of it is just how they are built, competitive, but competition is geared to win, not just to look good while losing. James likes to stack his teams, because he likes to win. I think Russ would prefer to be the only player on the floor most of the time.

[Infinite_limit]

You make a solid argument. I agree and think deep down inside Westbrook rather put up 30 PPG on a bottom feeder while challenging for the MVP award every year. Whether he will admit it or Thunder fan acknowledge but he has and will continue to hold resentment towards Durant like Kobe did Shaq but at the end of the day, Westbrook isn't as great of a Basketball player as Kobe was.

[HI-FI]

i hope you're right. it's a good counterpoint to the Westbrook fingerbanging on this board.

He's more Koba than Kobe, so not a sociopath but still toxic and alpha at the same time.

[Mal]

Once Durant leave, he`ll have all shots he wants. Something like stat padding Kirby, Melo and while he`s knees are good to go, he`ll get to playoffs.

[FlAVaK]

https://vine.co/v/OPlM1DIlqUT

"Westbrook hits his head on the backboard"

And he almost injured himself showboating...

[Killakobe81]

Dmc may be right about him not ringing. But I disagree that going hard in a ASG is an example of why he wont he likes to compete and there is nothing wrong with that. Magic, and Jordan took it seriously LeBron and Kobe too they have won plenty of titles. I get its part of the Spurs mindset and I agree that focusing on ball movement and on playoffs primarily is smart ...but it's not the only way. If Shaq was in his prime or Jordan I bet they could still win titles even with the antiquated triangle ... Talent is still more important than system you just need a good system to take advantage give me prime Shaq with Kobe or Prime Jordan with Pip they will always look to eat first but they will still win. Give me the dominant player over lets say the Hawks model.

[Brazil]

but :cry <3 :cry

[Brazil]

Dude sucks

I have no idea how a spurs fan could be a westchimp player fan tbh... does not make any sense

He is the opposite of the way Spurs play bb and I agree with DMC, he does not give a shit... Pop like any other coach would not be capable to properly coach him

[spursparker9]

I would appreciate TS go learn some paragraphing

[spursparker9]

tbh if Westbrook were a few inches taller, the media would probably label him as the 2nd coming of Kobe as like Kobe is the 2nd coming of MJ

[MarioSpeedwagon]

Pretty uninsightful thread. This criticism of him has been made thousands of times on this forum alone already

[hater]

Water is wet

[UZER]

Pretty much what many others including myself have said here. But you wrote the Moby Dick version.

Congrats.

[djohn2oo8]

Dmc may be right about him not ringing. But I disagree that going hard in a ASG nothing wrong with that. Magic, and Jordan took it seriously LeBron and Kobe too they have won plenty of titles. I get its part of the Spurs mindset and I agree that focusing on ball movement and on playoffs primarily is smart ...but it's not the only way. If Shaq was in his prime or Jordan I bet they could still win titles even with the antiquated triangle ... Talent is still more important than system you just need a good system to take advantage give me prime Shaq with Kobe or Prime Jordan with Pip they will always look to eat first but they will still win. Give me the dominant player over lets say the Hawks model.

Nothing wrong with playing hard in the ASG, Westbrook tends to do that kind of chucking he did last night in real games. 28 shots to 1 assist.

[Killakobe81]

Dude sucks

I have no idea how a spurs fan could be a westchimp player fan tbh... does not make any sense

He is the opposite of the way Spurs play bb and I agree with DMC, he does not give a shit... Pop like any other coach would not be capable to properly coach him

Disagree. Pop, RC someone like that is EXACTLY what he needs. A athlete like that needs guidance and good coaching and I think it's foolish to write him off early. MJ was (and of course rotator cuff) all benefited from structure and good coaching. Shaq needed it too. He ,may never get it. But he is still pretty young and to say he never will is a bit rash.

I agree the current version does seem like he wont ever figure it out and he seems very stubborn. But PJ even reeled in Rodman.

[hater]

Pretty much what many others including myself have said here. But you wrote the Moby Dick version.

Congrats.

:lol

[Killakobe81]

And of course for all his gifts he is nowhere near as dominant as MJ, shaq or even Kobe. I just think it's to early to say he will never "get it". I doubt he will but he is still young. I would love to Westbrook play for RC some of the same faults in Russ's game you could have applied to Montae in Gstate. Coaching, matters.

[Buddy Mignon]

Pretty uninsightful thread. This criticism of him has been made thousands of times on this forum alone already


He's just not good at making threads.:rollin

[Red Hawk #21]

OP makes some good points but I just don't see how you can make this thread based off his performance in an All-Star Game. I saw nothing wrong with him playing hard. He's an exciting player and I thought he put on a great show last night. Yes, he shoots more than he should as a PG, but last night was he not playing at the 2? I seem to recall a good portion of his baskets being set up by Chris Paul. The guy made shots when open and threw it down in transition. The way this thread is written you would think he was dribbling for 20 seconds and then forcing up contested jumpers. I understand the criticism of Westbrook's game, my argument is just that you can't look at last night's game and then use that as a reason to make a thread titled "Why the Thunder Will Never Win a Title with Westbrook". Why not make this kind of thread if he fucks up in the playoffs?

[unleashbaynes]

Pretty much what many others including myself have said here. But you wrote the Moby Dick version.

Congrats.

yeah im pretty sure most of us have felt that way about WB for awhile now.....one of those people that has to act like he has a chip on his shoulder to play well.

game6westbrookairball.gif

[Brazil]

Disagree. Pop, RC someone like that is EXACTLY what he needs. A athlete like that needs guidance and good coaching and I think it's foolish to write him off early. MJ was (and of course rotator cuff) all benefited from structure and good coaching. Shaq needed it too. He ,may never get it. But he is still pretty young and to say he never will is a bit rash.

I agree the current version does seem like he wont ever figure it out and he seems very stubborn. But PJ even reeled in Rodman.

He is too old for dat shit of coaching and mentoring

He is what he is

[Killakobe81]

OP makes some good points but I just don't see how you can make this thread based off his performance in an All-Star Game. I saw nothing wrong with him playing hard. He's an exciting player and I thought he put on a great show last night. Yes, he shoots more than he should as a PG, but last night was he not playing at the 2? I seem to recall a good portion of his baskets being set up by Chris Paul. The guy made shots when open and threw it down in transition. The way this thread is written you would think he was dribbling for 20 seconds and then forcing up contested jumpers. I understand the criticism of Westbrook's game, my argument is just that you can't look at last night's game and then use that as a reason to make a thread titled "Why the Thunder Will Never Win a Title with Westbrook". Why not make this kind of thread if he fucks up in the playoffs?

This. If the game means nothing how does it affect OKC being able to win it all? The last Finals they were in he played well probably shot to much but he will never be a pass first Pg. A good, tall passfirst PG (think Prime Kidd) would do wonders and you can move him to SG ...

[RsxPiimp]

Clay Bennett and Scott Brooks are bigger roadblocks for OKC's championship aspirations than Westbrook tbh

[Killakobe81]

Clay Bennett and Scott Brooks are bigger roadblocks for OKC's championship aspirations than Westbrook tbh

This. OKC may not win a title and Russ may not be the primary reason. if DMC Westbrook will NEVER win a title as a PG or the #1 option that would make more sense.

[Mori Chu]

Request: Can somebody please post the GIF where Westbrook misses the shot and then makes the "guns" gesture with his hands and walks away?

(Fuck Westbrick)

[buttsR4rebounding]

Clay Bennett and Scott Brooks are bigger roadblocks for OKC's championship aspirations than Westbrook tbh

+1

[hater]

:lol setting an NBA Allstar record for most FGs attempted :lol

[DMC]

I would appreciate TS go learn some paragraphing

This I agree with. I fixed it.

[DMC]

Dmc may be right about him not ringing. But I disagree that going hard in a ASG is an example of why he wont he likes to compete and there is nothing wrong with that. Magic, and Jordan took it seriously LeBron and Kobe too they have won plenty of titles. I get its part of the Spurs mindset and I agree that focusing on ball movement and on playoffs primarily is smart ...but it's not the only way. If Shaq was in his prime or Jordan I bet they could still win titles even with the antiquated triangle ... Talent is still more important than system you just need a good system to take advantage give me prime Shaq with Kobe or Prime Jordan with Pip they will always look to eat first but they will still win. Give me the dominant player over lets say the Hawks model.

I addressed the Kobe/Lebron comparison in the OP. Lebron had to go to Miami and stack to win a ring because no one wanted to play in Cleveland, and Kobe is in what used to be the premier location for free agents in the US (his presence on the roster makes it less desirable now it seems).

[DMC]

Water is wet
So is your back

[hater]

Water is wet


So is my mom

[DMC]

^That might be interesting if my actual quote wasn't right above it.

[hater]

except it's not :lol

[Killakobe81]

I addressed the Kobe/Lebron comparison in the OP. Lebron had to go to Miami and stack to win a ring because no one wanted to play in Cleveland, and Kobe is in what used to be the premier location for free agents in the US (his presence on the roster makes it less desirable now it seems).

I know you did. Im just saying despite whatever flaws Lebron has mentally, lack of a polished post-game, to stat conscious ... I would take his talent over anything else. IF let's say Lebron was ringless and shot happy like Kobe or Westbrook I would rather have him and try my best to work it out and get him a good coach rather than having a way less talented guy who is more unselfish. IF it's close of course I want the team first guy but talent trumps all. I would take a chance on Westbrook if the alternative is a less talented star.

[DMC]

I know you did. Im just saying despite whatever flaws Lebron has mentally, lack of a polished post-game, to stat conscious ... I would take his talent over anything else. IF let's say Lebron was ringless and shot happy like Kobe or Westbrook I would rather have him and try my best to work it out and get him a good coach rather than having a way less talented guy who is more unselfish. IF it's close of course I want the team first guy but talent trumps all. I would take a chance on Westbrook if the alternative is a less talented star.

None of that has anything to do with the OP. Russ is a point guard. From the onset in OKC he fought KD's uprising in the NBA with his own. He competed for notoriety for himself instead of for his team, though they benefited through association. We all know KD is beta to Westbrook, but that's because KD doesn't want to fight that intra-team battle for stats/notoriety. Had Russ spent more time trying to get his team involved in the offense than trying to raise his own stock price, the Thunder would likely be looking back at a ring or two right now. They have the pieces. They just won't win it with a chucking PG.

We could probably blame that on the head coach, but at this point it's so ingrained into the makeup of the team's offense that a new HC would have a very hard time changing it. Russ might not go for scoring fewer points even if it translated to more wins. The league has a lot of guys who are on winning teams that don't get a lot of individual notoriety, so perhaps Russ is more concerned with self promotion than winning. He wouldn't be the first.. the game was full of them last night including the host himself who, oddly enough could play almost 30 minutes in a meaningless game but has to "shut it down" immediately afterward. Someone who needs surgery shouldn't be out there dunking the ball.

That seems to be the dichotomy among the upper tier players in the league, winning vs looking good individually, and if they cannot have both they often prefer the latter.

[Killakobe81]

None of that has anything to do with the OP. Russ is a point guard. From the onset in OKC he fought KD's uprising in the NBA with his own. He competed for notoriety for himself instead of for his team, though they benefited through association. We all know KD is beta to Westbrook, but that's because KD doesn't want to fight that intra-team battle for stats/notoriety. Had Russ spent more time trying to get his team involved in the offense than trying to raise his own stock price, the Thunder would likely be looking back at a ring or two right now. They have the pieces. They just won't win it with a chucking PG.

We could probably blame that on the head coach, but at this point it's so ingrained into the makeup of the team's offense that a new HC would have a very hard time changing it. Russ might not go for scoring fewer points even if it translated to more wins. The league has a lot of guys who are on winning teams that don't get a lot of individual notoriety, so perhaps Russ is more concerned with self promotion than winning. He wouldn't be the first.. the game was full of them last night including the host himself who, oddly enough could play almost 30 minutes in a meaningless game but has to "shut it down" immediately afterward. Someone who needs surgery shouldn't be out there dunking the ball.

That seems to be the dichotomy among the upper tier players in the league, winning vs looking good individually, and if they cannot have both they often prefer the latter.

agree it was shameless of Melo to hold off on shutting it down until after he could play host to that game. And I get your point that Russ right now is in the category of me first guys. But I think looking at him as a traditional PG is wrong. I also think that OKC despite the talent they have NEED Russ to score. Part of it is lack of creativity from the head coach and some is probably russ isnt quite as amazing when he is not heavily featured. He plays balls to the wall but would he if his role was lessened? Not sure.

I already agreed with your premise. I just felt calling Russ out for a game that you admit is meaningless, for going for MVP is not fair. But I freely admit I am a BRUIn and a westbrook apologist. I have always liked guys that attack. I even defended rose on here pre-injury as well .. I just dont mind guys that shoot especially if they play defense and hustle the way he does. Again would love to see him with RC or POp who were able to rein in Parker and Montae. Ellis is probably the closest example of a guy many thought was a selfish gunner but has evolved in to more by a great coach and who people tried to make a PG but really needs to be PG/SG hybrid ...

[Koolaid_Man]

You make a solid argument. I agree and think deep down inside Westbrook rather put up 30 PPG on a bottom feeder while challenging for the MVP award every year. Whether he will admit it or Thunder fan acknowledge but he has and will continue to hold resentment towards Durant like Kobe did Shaq but at the end of the day, Westbrook isn't as great of a Basketball player as Kobe was.

Responding to the fat homie DMC is like asking to get your cock grabbed.

[DMC]

agree it was shameless of Melo to hold off on shutting it down until after he could play host to that game. And I get your point that Russ right now is in the category of me first guys. But I think looking at him as a traditional PG is wrong. I also think that OKC despite the talent they have NEED Russ to score. Part of it is lack of creativity from the head coach and some is probably russ isnt quite as amazing when he is not heavily featured. He plays balls to the wall but would he if his role was lessened? Not sure.

I already agreed with your premise. I just felt calling Russ out for a game that you admit is meaningless, for going for MVP is not fair. But I freely admit I am a BRUIn and a westbrook apologist. I have always liked guys that attack. I even defended rose on here pre-injury as well .. I just dont mind guys that shoot especially if they play defense and hustle the way he does. Again would love to see him with RC or POp who were able to rein in Parker and Montae. Ellis is probably the closest example of a guy many thought was a selfish gunner but has evolved in to more by a great coach and who people tried to make a PG but really needs to be PG/SG hybrid ...
I wasn't calling him out for a meaningless game. I was calling him out for acting like it wasn't a meaningless game while being unseeded in his conference and pointing to the fact that it only illustrates the problems with having him and KD on the floor at the same time. Russ has stars in his eyes. That team will not be successful on the big stage until the core talent learns how to play unselfishly. They don't have a juggernaut big like Shaq in the paint, so there's no virtual safety net for the chucking.

[JohnnyMax]

Responding to the fat homie DMC is like asking to get your cock grabbed.

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2183253/sillynbaplayers.gif

[Franklin]

the Thunder wouldn't even make the playoffs without him though.

[LkrFan]

So is your back

http://media1.giphy.com/media/TWhOmZ783UrwA/200_s.gif

BAAAAHAHAHAHAHA! :rollin :lmao :rollin

[DMC]

I said.