Kyle Korver: Tom Thibodeau's defense changed the NBA

[Malik Hairston]

Said it to Bill Simmons on his podcast..Korver said that Thibodeau is the reason the NBA offenses had to adapt to the spacing/shooting concepts..

I agree with him, to an extent, tbh..along with the natural progression and advancement in talent of today's players, particularly big men that can space the floor..

Thibs' Celtics' D was the pinnacle of defense, the coaches in the NBA had to adjust and adapt, natural progression, tbh..

[Malik Hairston]

It also makes me respect Kobe more, too, tbh..his performances in 2008 and 2010 were widely criticized, but realistically, those defenses were far better than anything Dad Killer or Larry Bird ever even imagined playing against:lol..

:(hard fouls, tho:(..

[spurraider21]

its not a matter of hard fouls. its a matter of significant contact being allowed WITHOUT fouls called compared to today

[Clipper Nation]

MVPau carrying his team to rings in this era :worthy:

[Malik Hairston]

^^ There's a lot of contact allowed today, tbh..

[lefty]

:lol tom rivers

[313]

Did Parker get benched/traded? :wow

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What I am about to say in no way is to detract from Thibs in his standing as one of the best coaches in the NBA. My comment is in regards to how simplified basketball has become.

Thibs 'innovation' was to bring the help from the weakside over early. Zone up on the strongside barely outside the paint. Korver had to slide more weakside so they had farther to run. Thibs likes to do it with his bigs so Noah's defense was able to shine. Brooks who is supposedly the idiot likes to do similar sets with his guards and wings. Westbrook and Sefalosha before he lost a step were the cogs in OKC.

Pop will call it against particular looks. We eviscerated Memphis when Kawhi abandoned the weakside whenever he was on it. For the most part he prefers having two guys that can cut off penetration and keeping people home. We are also adept at passing out of the high post which kills cheaters on the flipside. It's the entire point of swinging the ball side to side.

This is hardly new stuff though. You are only supposed to double from the weakside because strongside is one pass away. I don't see why anyone should be impressed by this.

[Malik Hairston]

What I am about to say in no way is to detract from Thibs in his standing as one of the best coaches in the NBA. My comment is in regards to how simplified basketball has become.

Thibs 'innovation' was to bring the help from the weakside over early. Zone up on the strongside barely outside the paint. Korver had to slide more weakside so they had farther to run. Thibs likes to do it with his bigs so Noah's defense was able to shine. Brooks who is supposedly the idiot likes to do similar sets with his guards and wings. Westbrook and Sefalosha before he lost a step were the cogs in OKC.

Pop will call it against particular looks. We eviscerated Memphis when Kawhi abandoned the weakside whenever he was on it. For the most part he prefers having two guys that can cut off penetration and keeping people home. We are also adept at passing out of the high post which kills cheaters on the flipside. It's the entire point of swinging the ball side to side.

This is hardly new stuff though. You are only supposed to double from the weakside because strongside is one pass away. I don't see why anyone should be impressed by this.

What type of adjustments, if any, do you think Thibodeau made from his 90s Knicks teams to his 2000s Celtics teams, iyo?

[Sean Cagney]

its not a matter of hard fouls. its a matter of significant contact being allowed WITHOUT fouls called compared to today

You are correct. Athletes good today but a pussy league it is.

[hitmanyr2k]

It also makes me respect Kobe more, too, tbh..his performances in 2008 and 2010 were widely criticized, but realistically, those defenses were far better than anything Dad Killer or Larry Bird ever even imagined playing against:lol..

:(hard fouls, tho:(..

Kobe is a career 40% shooter in the Finals. It really didn't matter who he faced whether it was the Pacers, Sixers, Pistons, Celtics, Magic, whoever. He was going to chuck his normal 40% on the big stage.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What type of adjustments, if any, do you think Thibodeau made from his 90s Knicks teams to his 2000s Celtics teams, iyo?

You know how Pop and Tony make fun of reporters that ask questions they are to lazy to research themselves? Yeah this is that.

The difference was in personnel specifically Garnett. He had great feet and can play heavy minutes. Thibs built around that much like with Noah but that is besides the point.

I do think it's funny that you you think the instant double team is the pinnacle of defense.

[Malik Hairston]

You know how Pop and Tony make fun of reporters that ask questions they are to lazy to research themselves? Yeah this is that.

The difference was in personnel specifically Garnett. He had great feet and can play heavy minutes. Thibs built around that much like with Noah but that is besides the point.

I do think it's funny that you you think the instant double team is the pinnacle of defense.

I already know the answers, I just asked for your old man's take on it..your analysis is biased and full of shit, as usual, tbh:lol..

:lmao thinking Lionel Hollins is a great coach..

[apalisoc_9]

Lionel Hollins

:lmao

[DJR210]

Did Parker get benched/traded? :wow

:lol

[whitemamba]

Tim Grover doesnt get enough credit for how he helped Kobe vs the Celtics.

[spurraider21]

Tim Grover doesnt get enough credit for how he helped Kobe vs the Celtics.
You misspelled Pau Gasol

[Phillip]

its not a matter of hard fouls. its a matter of significant contact being allowed WITHOUT fouls called compared to today

revisionist history

go back and watch, and you will see pretty much the same amount of contact

the only difference is that there is more flopping now, so sometimes refs make bad calls

but the contact is virtually the same as its always been

[spurraider21]

revisionist history

go back and watch, and you will see pretty much the same amount of contact

the only difference is that there is more flopping now, so sometimes refs make bad calls

but the contact is virtually the same as its always been
Revisionist history. hand checking used to be legal

[Phillip]

Revisionist history. hand checking used to be legal

Hand checking still happens. You just can't get away with extending your arm like before.

There is still tons of contact, collisions, and such that do not get called.

[Clipper Nation]

Tim Grover doesnt get enough credit for how he helped Kobe vs the Celtics.

Kirby stans finally realizing he's been carried his entire career while sucking up all the credit.

[spurraider21]

Hand checking still happens. You just can't get away with extending your arm like before.
cool thanks :tu

[whitemamba]

Kirby stans finally realizing he's been carried his entire career while sucking up all the credit.

Luke Walton 2
clippers 0

[AlexJones]

Crofl Doc Rivers

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I already know the answers, I just asked for your old man's take on it..your analysis is biased and full of shit, as usual, tbh:lol..

:lmao thinking Lionel Hollins is a great coach..

:lol Now I am old? You guys keep guessing. White, black, mexican, old, young, rich, poor. Without your stereotypes you don't know what to think.

You have abandoned the substance of the post. You are mesmerized by simple schemes and cannot tell that Brooks does the same things.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

I think the 2014 Spurs would've beaten the 2008 Celtics.

[Clipper Nation]

Luke Walton

http://i.imgur.com/L7UAwdf.jpg

[Phillip]

cool thanks :tu

So you agree with my initial statement then.

Cool thanks :tu

[endrity]

What I am about to say in no way is to detract from Thibs in his standing as one of the best coaches in the NBA. My comment is in regards to how simplified basketball has become.

Thibs 'innovation' was to bring the help from the weakside over early. Zone up on the strongside barely outside the paint. Korver had to slide more weakside so they had farther to run. Thibs likes to do it with his bigs so Noah's defense was able to shine. Brooks who is supposedly the idiot likes to do similar sets with his guards and wings. Westbrook and Sefalosha before he lost a step were the cogs in OKC.

Pop will call it against particular looks. We eviscerated Memphis when Kawhi abandoned the weakside whenever he was on it. For the most part he prefers having two guys that can cut off penetration and keeping people home. We are also adept at passing out of the high post which kills cheaters on the flipside. It's the entire point of swinging the ball side to side.

This is hardly new stuff though. You are only supposed to double from the weakside because strongside is one pass away. I don't see why anyone should be impressed by this.

Well the "innovation" was to better use zone defenses, which were allowed a few years earlier. Which means that isolation, hero ball, is definitely not the best option to use. On the other hand the rules against hand-checking incentivize more movement and screens around the perimer to better counter the zones. In a way, the much more beautiful basketball we see recently is a result of direct rule changes.

However saying that Kobe is a hero for going against that, which is what Malik is saying above, is completely wrong to me. What it means was that Kobe was actually a very dumb player to try and play his old style instead of putting the new rules to better use. It's why the Spurs or the 2011 Mavs are seen a much better model on how to build your roster, cause not everyone can get Wade and LeBron on the same team, rather than Kobe's hero ball.

[unleashbaynes]

^^ There's a lot of contact allowed today, tbh..

Yup....just from watching the last couple of playoff runs with the Spurs, a good deal of incidental contact is allowed when contesting shots at the rim in half court sets, as well as on the break. Danny in particular has played some amazing transition D where guys have tried to sell calls and the refs weren't buying it. They kept the ticky tack stuff to a minimum or at least called it fairly evenly for both teams.

It was nice after seeing the Thunder get every call to their benefit in 2012, we drive and they play physical D with no call, they drive and we look in their direction and get a call. Worst officiated series in Spurs history.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well the "innovation" was to better use zone defenses, which were allowed a few years earlier. Which means that isolation, hero ball, is definitely not the best option to use. On the other hand the rules against hand-checking incentivize more movement and screens around the perimer to better counter the zones. In a way, the much more beautiful basketball we see recently is a result of direct rule changes.

However saying that Kobe is a hero for going against that, which is what Malik is saying above, is completely wrong to me. What it means was that Kobe was actually a very dumb player to try and play his old style instead of putting the new rules to better use. It's why the Spurs or the 2011 Mavs are seen a much better model on how to build your roster, cause not everyone can get Wade and LeBron on the same team, rather than Kobe's hero ball.

Sure, I don't disagree with any of that. The entire point of the defense is to get help to beat penetration early and force a pass through trees to get to the open man.

Malik is much like Kobe in that he will try and force ideas through even when they are shown to not be working.