76ers guide to building a championship team

[RsxPiimp]

It probably won't get a ton of response here since it doesn't involve the usual suspects that generates traffic in this board (Kirby, Tammy, Enrique) but It's a good read and bump worthy in a few years.


76ers ownership is banking heavily on Hinkie and his strict analytical approach (probably the purest in the league, moreso than Morey) to resurrect the franchise. Considering a good portion of the owners still believes in hiring traditional basketball guys (Ex NBA players to run the team, etc) This could make or break the analytical aspect of running a franchise in the league.


The initial stages of this process has been ugly for Philadelphia but I believe this is only year 2 under Hinkie's management, so it will take time to see the fruits of their labor.


Also, this is also a good way to track the progress of the Knicks who is being built from the ground up by a traditional basketball head (Jackson) and see how his approach stacks up against Hinkie's analytical method.



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Two years into Brown's four-year contract, Hinkie has handed his coach a staff of more than a dozen, with individuals responsible for everything from offense and defense, to analytics, to sports science, to video, to strength and conditioning. One basketball-ops staffer, Lance "Doc" Pearson, has a Ph.D. in cognitive and neural systems from Boston University and degrees in mathematics, computer science and philosophy from the University of Kentucky. Another guy, who teaches team-building part time, is a Navy SEAL.

After every game, a squad of as many as eight staffers, under the direction of Pearson and assistant coach Vance Walberg, constructs something called an Effort Chart. Every Sixer, on every possession, is graded on five complex, proprietary criteria. On offense, for instance, the team wants to reward pace, so staffers time a player's first three steps when a miss is recovered. On defense, they'll recognize accomplishments such as contested shots, tips and deflections. Report cards, linked to video for review, are announced to the team. "We set it up as a competition," undrafted forward JaKarr Sampson gushes. Brown harps on the team average -- a score of 20 is high -- and denotes improvement in 10-game chunks.

[endrity]

Great, but if anything they are behind the curve. We don't know what exactly each team uses, but most of this per-possession-rating seems to be something most teams have used for a long time now.

[RsxPiimp]

Great, but if anything they are behind the curve. We don't know what exactly each team uses, but most of this per-possession-rating seems to be something most teams have used for a long time now.

I just think his decisions has been flawed since day one drafting players with questionable health (Noel and Embiid). But we'll see how it pans out...

[Chinook]

This is no small concession: Hinkie, the hypercompetitive general manager of the Philadelphia 76ers (http://espn.go.com/nba/team/_/name/phi/philadelphia-76ers), has a hyperactive brain that runs cost-benefit analysis as relentlessly as a normal human breathes oxygen. To label the 37-year-old press-shy would be woefully inadequate. By Hinkie's math, talking on the record, about pretty much anything, unfailingly grades out as a cost.
:vomit:

Ugh. Nothing about what the Sixers are doing requires high-level thinking. They are sucking and hope to continue to suck long enough to get enough draft talent. What he's doing now is at best a prolonged version of what OKC did, except that instead of Durant, Westbrook and Harden to show for their tanking, they have on overrated mediocre guard and two bigs that have to stay healthy to even have a chance to live up to their potentials.

[K...]

If there had been a Durant in the last few drafts I'd criticize them. The only thing in that article that is messed up is the disclosure that they plan to teach all their guys to shoot. Like kawhi but for all their scrubs. We will see.

There's some good stuff in the article about how they play at high pace to inflate their player's stats. It's a crazy plan overall. Whether they fail or succeed it's going to be highly entertaining.

[Mal]

Buffalo Sabres are doing excatly the same thing. Building it up from scratch. We`ll see

[Raven]

their defensive rating is probably the biggest outlier in recent years, the thought of it not actually being an outlier, is really exciting if not scary.

[ambchang]

People have a tendency to talk about analytics as a whole, and not distinguish between the long term team-building part (tanking) to the game to game tactical side (shoot more threes, stop long 2's, etc ...).

From a long term perspective, what the ers are doing isn't about analytics vs. sports jock approach, it's about taking high risks, high returns. Building through the draft isn't really a groundbreaking, or even new strategy, teams have been doing it for years. The Knicks did it with Ewing, Rockets with Sampson/Olajuwon, Spurs with Robinson/Elliott/Anderson, and later Duncan. But people remember the successful ones and forgot the ones that didn't pan out (90s Mavs, Nets, Clippers). The problem with this approach is that implicitly, people are gauging high picks from year to year to be equal. They are not, and it's obvious. A draft with Durant (and Oden) is much better than the Bargniani draft, a draft with Duncan as the top pick is so much better than a draft with Andrew Bogut as the prize. Then there is the issue of requiring multiple drafts to actually build a team, and the possibility of landing high enough picks, and having good enough players to draft in consecutive years gets smaller and smaller. OKC is really the only recent successful example, but they did a lot of things right, and a lot of things fell their way, and still, they haven't won a championship yet.

This is purely a high-risk high-reward play, and it ignores the competitive advantage the 6ers have over the other teams (rich basketball history, comparatively large metropolitan area). Sure they are not large enough to attract big name players like the Lakers or the Knicks do, but they don't have to fight against it like the Spurs or OKC do.

This strategy doesn't need an analytics team, it only requires management buy in and a long enough window. Throw enough on the wall, and something will stick.

As for the tactical side of things, this should be where analytics should come in. Find your franchise player(s), then find the right players to fit around them. Spurs did a phenomenal job in this, but this is because they have a vision, and a great understanding of what their players can and can't do. Teams can't just randomly pull up analytics and find the players with the best quants (whatever that may be), and throw a team together. If they do that, it's no different from a team pursuing players with great traditional stats, and teams had been doing that since the 70s. The only difference is that they are just ranking players with different metrics.

Again using the Spurs as an example, the culture of a team is huge. Obviously I am not part of the Spurs, but reports seems to point to them being a professional team, a team that enjoys being together, that has a common goal, and players and staff knowing their roles. It starts at the top, and that's what great leaders do. Having a guy like Pop is like having a guy like West, they have different approaches, but at the end of the day, both are great leaders.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Good analysis ambchang. WhatI'd add is that there's a huge difference in a GM's work between getting a good set of players from the draft on one hand and then managing a team that's close to the luxury tax on the other. The first requires getting the best out of your available assets and cap space at the moment you begin rebuilding, stockpiling picks, getting lucky having good players in consecutive drafts and being able to identify and draft them. The other requires not biting on quick fixes that'd take up cap space, identifying the ideal role players for what the team needs and keeping the core together until you've found the right formula. OKC and Presti did a magnificent job with the first part, not so much with the second. When you have 2 of the top 5 players on your team you just have to win in that window you've opened for yourself, no excuses.

Philly isn't all that different, they just haven't drafted players as good as Durant and Westbrook, instead they have MCW and Noel, which is why they'd likely fail in their approach unless Embiid becomes a legit superstar, which I doubt. They're 2 years down the road already and will soon need to hand out hefty contracts and fight the urge to overpay their draft picks that won't be really good, but just average or above average. The 2017 cap jump might help them, but unless they show some semblance of not being a joke they're unlikely to get a top FA go there. Also, I'd imagine the league and all other FOs are seriously pissed off with their overly tanking ways. Very few would want to see them succeed.

[RsxPiimp]

It is now rumored that Hinkie may deal Noel for rookie guard Nik Stauskas.

Would Sixers general manager Sam Hinkie consider trading slender big man Nerlens Noel for Kings rookie guard Nik Stauskas and perhaps a pick? Stauskas, the No. 8 overall choice last June, would provide perimeter shooting, has one more year of salary control than Noel and the Sixers apparently like him.

[Infinite_limit]

It is now rumored that Hinkie may deal Noel for rookie guard Nik Stauskas.

Would Sixers general manager Sam Hinkie consider trading slender big man Nerlens Noel for Kings rookie guard Nik Stauskas and perhaps a pick? Stauskas, the No. 8 overall choice last June, would provide perimeter shooting, has one more year of salary control than Noel and the Sixers apparently like him.
Classic NBA rebuilding. Revolving door of young talent. Until you've eventually had enough and end up trading a young promising Webber for 30 year old Mitch Richmond.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Over the past few weeks multiple sources around the league suspect that Sam Hinkie may actually be leaning toward Porzingis. He’s an odd fit given the Sixers abundance of big men (though news that Joel Embiid (http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nba/2288/joel-embiid)‘s foot hasn’t healed may change the fit analysis). But Hinkie has always drafted based on the best player available strategy. He doesn’t draft for need. So while the team needs Mudiay or Russell more, if he believes Porzingis is the best player on the board, so be it. Or, as one rival GM opined, this Porzingis intel is all a smoke screen to get Orlando (who loves Porzingis) to trade up to three and give Hinkie another coveted asset.

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/06/19/report-sixers-leaning-toward-selecting-kristaps-porzingis-with-no-3-pick-in-nba-draft/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

So they let Ish Smith go, waiting on Wroten and signing Marshall, then turn around and waive Wroten so they can trade 2 picks for Smith :lol Easy to make trades with cap space when you don't look at the basketball perspective but once they become more serious about winning they'll find other GMs ready to fuck them over.

[Spurtacular]

It doesn't take analytics to suck your ass off, garner high picks, draft and stash projects, suck more, accumulate more high draft picks, draft projects, suck and get more high draft picks and draft them and still suck while getting more picks.

[Raven]

colangelo a week into his job and he already fucked the franchise for 5 years.

[TDMVPDPOY]

but are the sixers developing them picks? seems like its all iso plays man

[Raven]

but are the sixers developing them picks? seems like its all iso plays man
almost none of their picks are on the roster though.. Just noel and okafor and some guy named richaun holmes.. stauskas, marshall were not their picks and they have a ton of dleaguers..

[Thread]

I just hope Ish plays tomorrow nite. He hates the Suns with pure passion.

[TheCultOfPersonality]

Tony Wroten is a terrible basketball player. Sucks on defense, turns the ball over alot, can't shoot from anywhere beyond 2 feet from the basket, low BBIQ, the only skillset he has is that he can drive to the basket.

I would shocked if any playoff team actually takes a chance on him.

[DMC]

colangelo a week into his job and he already fucked the franchise for 5 years.

Jerry could be playing double agent. Maybe he did not come to fix the franchise, but to harvest it.

[Thread]

Jerry could be playing double agent. Maybe he did not come to fix the franchise, but to harvest it.

D, you ever see those movies, or, a part in a movie where some poor fellow gets coerced into a situation where he ends up losing an organ to organ havestors? I know it's just a movie, but, it's very upsetting. There is one where the guy is making out with this hot chick and she poisons him with a sleep aid. He wakes up in the gd bathtub filled with ice cubes and ice water with his right kidney hacked out.

It's not only the loss, but, it's the way the part is portrayed. Very upsetting to me for some gd reason.

There's another one where this hot shot cowboy type goes to this bar and starts more or less sexually harrassing the barmaid, heavy flirting, thinks he's all that. She takes him into the back room and he lets her tie him to this chair. He thinks he's going to get teased & pleased S&M. She sticks one of those organge rubber ball gags into his mouth then opens the outer door and in comes a few people with little coolers marked organs for transplant. GD part has stuck in my mind for years. Eh.

[DMC]

D, you ever see those movies, or, a part in a movie where some poor fellow gets coerced into a situation where he ends up losing an organ to organ havestors? I know it's just a movie, but, it's very upsetting. There is one where the guy is making out with this hot chick and she poisons him with a sleep aid. He wakes up in the gd bathtub filled with ice cubes and ice water with his right kidney hacked out.

It's not only the loss, but, it's the way the part is portrayed. Very upsetting to me for some gd reason.

There's another one where this hot shot cowboy type goes to this bar and starts more or less sexually harrassing the barmaid, heavy flirting, thinks he's all that. She takes him into the back room and he lets her tie him to this chair. He thinks he's going to get teased & pleased S&M. She sticks one of those organge rubber ball gags into his mouth then opens the outer door and in comes a few people with little coolers marked organs for transplant. GD part has stuck in my mind for years. Eh.

Never saw it, but your mother took my organ multiple times.

[Thread]

Never saw it, but your mother took my organ multiple times.

:rolleyes

[DMC]

:rolleyes
You set'em, I'll knock'em down.

No I never saw those movies, not that I recall but sounds a bit sporty.

[TDMVPDPOY]

are the sixers even running any system atm? thats a waste whatever they are doing...sooner or later i think all those guys would want to leave that shit hole losing culture whatever crap they got going there...

rookies who have potential who stunt their growth cause of management different goals, and then u have over the hill veterans taking up a roster spot or not letting go of the keys...
lakers with kirby, spurs with the 3tosb

[Raven]

Never saw it, but your mother took my organ multiple times.
:lmao

[Thread]

:lmao

Oh, yeah, just fuckin' hilarious.:rolleyes

[Raven]

Oh, yeah, just fuckin' hilarious.:rolleyes
she's probably dead too, which makes it even more wicked and well timed. you gotta admire the guy

[RsxPiimp]

Is it a coincidence that some of the best analytical mind in the game (Morey, Hinkie) have zero people skills? :lol This is a problem when you look at players from a pure statistical perspective...

[Thread]

Is it a coincidence that some of the best analytical mind in the game (Morey, Hinkie) have zero people skills? :lol This is a problem when you look at players from a pure statistical perspective...

Bend over. I'll show you a fuckin' pure statestical perspective...

[Raven]

D'antoni was behind this retarded trade :lmao:lmao:lmao not shocking at all, only the least knowledgeable basketball mind could have thought of this. :lmao

[Splits]

D, you ever see those movies, or, a part in a movie where some poor fellow gets coerced into a situation where he ends up losing an organ to organ havestors? I know it's just a movie, but, it's very upsetting. There is one where the guy is making out with this hot chick and she poisons him with a sleep aid. He wakes up in the gd bathtub filled with ice cubes and ice water with his right kidney hacked out.

It's not only the loss, but, it's the way the part is portrayed. Very upsetting to me for some gd reason.

There's another one where this hot shot cowboy type goes to this bar and starts more or less sexually harrassing the barmaid, heavy flirting, thinks he's all that. She takes him into the back room and he lets her tie him to this chair. He thinks he's going to get teased & pleased S&M. She sticks one of those organge rubber ball gags into his mouth then opens the outer door and in comes a few people with little coolers marked organs for transplant. GD part has stuck in my mind for years. Eh.

Trying so hard to fit in, win DMCs approval, to come in from the cold when all the keymasters continue to shun him.

Sad.

[Thread]

Trying so hard to fit in, win DMCs approval, to come in from the cold when all the keymasters continue to shun him.

Sad.

No. D melted first and wished me & mine a Merry Xmas. I thought I'd take that olive branch and extend it back.

[RsxPiimp]

No. D melted first and wished me & mine a Merry Xmas. I thought I'd take that olive branch and extend it back.

Bend over and I'll show an olive branch that extends back :lol

[Molotov]

Bend over and I'll show an olive branch that extends back :lol



:lol

[Splits]

No. D melted first and wished me & mine a Merry Xmas. I thought I'd take that olive branch and extend it back.

Nobody likes you, Dale. Your friends don't like you. Your enemies don't respect you. Your family wants nothing to do with you.

You're a loser.

[Thread]

Nobody likes you, Dale. Your friends don't like you. Your enemies don't respect you. Your family wants nothing to do with you.

You're a loser.

& yet you paid good money to buy me a virtual driver.

muhahahahahahahahahhaa!!!!!!!!!

[Splits]

& yet you paid good money to buy me a virtual driver.

muhahahahahahahahahhaa!!!!!!!!!

I'm made of money. I have so much I don't know what to do with it all. Dropping a couple pennies on you doesn't mean shit.

[Thread]

I'm made of money. I have so much I don't know what to do with it all.

Fact remains:::you spent it on me.

lmvictoriousao!!!

[RsxPiimp]

D'antoni was behind this retarded trade :lmao:lmao:lmao not shocking at all, only the least knowledgeable basketball mind could have thought of this. :lmao

To be fair, I know people are judging him on his previous NBA affair. Mike knows his stuff (offensively). Winning a game against the Suns, is probably no accident. They're offensive sets today looks vastly different.

[Thread]

To be fair, I know people are judging him on his previous NBA affair. Mike knows his stuff (offensively). Winning a game against the Suns, is probably no accident. They're offensive sets today looks vastly different.

Pimp

---------

And they pissed Ish off royally when he was here. They have a way of doing that. Little things,,,you can read it in the press, bits & pieces. They don't miss a trick. And they never learn.

[TDMVPDPOY]

how many former sacked coaches are the lakers still paying?

[Thread]

how many former sacked coaches are the lakers still paying?

Nobody. I think D'Antoni was the last and he just got hired.

[Chinook]

It doesn't take analytics to suck your ass off, garner high picks, draft and stash projects, suck more, accumulate more high draft picks, draft projects, suck and get more high draft picks and draft them and still suck while getting more picks.

Very true, and that's why the idea that Hinkie's plan is just too smart for his opponents is ludicrous. And the Smith trade looks like the right move given the terrible move to let him walk. Their bigs look a lot better, and developing those guys has to be Philly's biggest priority.