was Nagin out of line?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

i just listened to the entire interview


i dont think he is outta line

just angry

what do you all think?

[JoeChalupa]

He was heard so I don't blame him.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

do you think he gets in trouble?


he started running numbers for the money spent post 9/11 relief and stuff....he even said i know im gonna get in trouble for this

[JoeChalupa]

No trouble at all.

He called it like he saw it.

[gameFACE]

No. Unless you're in NO you can't understand the severity of the situation. I can't. It has to be worse than is being portrayed as a tragedy always is. The pressure on Nagin is overwhelming.

[Guru of Nothing]

What did he say? Cliff Notes please. (or is it Cliff's Notes?)

[FromWayDowntown]

I think Nagin's situation is much, much more difficult than the situation that Guiliani handled so beautifully in NYC after 9/11. At least Guiliani had a disaster that was confined to a few city blocks. Most of the people of NYC could return to their homes on 9/11 and every night thereafter. The city generally had power and working sewers, and maintained land-line telephone communications. First responders and volunteers could get to where they needed to be and could do it immediately. The government could easily mobilize aid and get it into the area without significant problems by the next day. His police forces, though devastated by the attack, were still available to maintain the peace and keep order. The people of NYC also didn't fight against the relief efforts.

Nagin, by contrast, has no city to work with, a dwindling police force that until recently has had no available deterrent, and a mob of criminals bent on interfering with any relief efforts that are undertaken.

Comparing the two situations -- seeing Nagin unfavorably compared to Giuliani -- is patently ridiculous.

[JoeChalupa]

I concur.

[gameFACE]

Here's the transcript:

Mayor to feds: 'Get off your asses'

Transcript of radio interview with New Orleans' Nagin

Friday, September 2, 2005; Posted: 2:59 p.m. EDT (18:59 GMT)

New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin speaks Saturday, before Hurricane Katrina's devastation.

(CNN) -- New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin blasted the slow pace of federal and state relief efforts in an expletive-laced interview with local radio station WWL-AM.

The following is a transcript of WWL correspondent Garland Robinette's interview with Nagin on Thursday night. Robinette asked the mayor about his conversation with President Bush:

NAGIN: I told him we had an incredible crisis here and that his flying over in Air Force One does not do it justice. And that I have been all around this city, and I am very frustrated because we are not able to marshal resources and we're outmanned in just about every respect. (Listen to the mayor express his frustration in this video -- 12:09)

You know the reason why the looters got out of control? Because we had most of our resources saving people, thousands of people that were stuck in attics, man, old ladies. ... You pull off the doggone ventilator vent and you look down there and they're standing in there in water up to their freaking necks.

And they don't have a clue what's going on down here. They flew down here one time two days after the doggone event was over with TV cameras, AP reporters, all kind of goddamn -- excuse my French everybody in America, but I am pissed.

WWL: Did you say to the president of the United States, "I need the military in here"?

NAGIN: I said, "I need everything."

Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is [Lt.] Gen. [Russel] Honore.

And he came off the doggone chopper, and he started cussing and people started moving. And he's getting some stuff done.

They ought to give that guy -- if they don't want to give it to me, give him full authority to get the job done, and we can save some people.

WWL: What do you need right now to get control of this situation?

NAGIN: I need reinforcements, I need troops, man. I need 500 buses, man. We ain't talking about -- you know, one of the briefings we had, they were talking about getting public school bus drivers to come down here and bus people out here.

I'm like, "You got to be kidding me. This is a national disaster. Get every doggone Greyhound bus line in the country and get their asses moving to New Orleans."

That's -- they're thinking small, man. And this is a major, major, major deal. And I can't emphasize it enough, man. This is crazy.

I've got 15,000 to 20,000 people over at the convention center. It's bursting at the seams. The poor people in Plaquemines Parish. ... We don't have anything, and we're sharing with our brothers in Plaquemines Parish.

It's awful down here, man.

WWL: Do you believe that the president is seeing this, holding a news conference on it but can't do anything until [Louisiana Gov.] Kathleen Blanco requested him to do it? And do you know whether or not she has made that request?

NAGIN: I have no idea what they're doing. But I will tell you this: You know, God is looking down on all this, and if they are not doing everything in their power to save people, they are going to pay the price. Because every day that we delay, people are dying and they're dying by the hundreds, I'm willing to bet you.

We're getting reports and calls that are breaking my heart, from people saying, "I've been in my attic. I can't take it anymore. The water is up to my neck. I don't think I can hold out." And that's happening as we speak.

You know what really upsets me, Garland? We told everybody the importance of the 17th Street Canal issue. We said, "Please, please take care of this. We don't care what you do. Figure it out."

WWL: Who'd you say that to?

NAGIN: Everybody: the governor, Homeland Security, FEMA. You name it, we said it.

And they allowed that pumping station next to Pumping Station 6 to go under water. Our sewage and water board people ... stayed there and endangered their lives.

And what happened when that pumping station went down, the water started flowing again in the city, and it starting getting to levels that probably killed more people.

In addition to that, we had water flowing through the pipes in the city. That's a power station over there.

So there's no water flowing anywhere on the east bank of Orleans Parish. So our critical water supply was destroyed because of lack of action.

WWL: Why couldn't they drop the 3,000-pound sandbags or the containers that they were talking about earlier? Was it an engineering feat that just couldn't be done?

NAGIN: They said it was some pulleys that they had to manufacture. But, you know, in a state of emergency, man, you are creative, you figure out ways to get stuff done.

Then they told me that they went overnight, and they built 17 concrete structures and they had the pulleys on them and they were going to drop them.

I flew over that thing yesterday, and it's in the same shape that it was after the storm hit. There is nothing happening. And they're feeding the public a line of bull and they're spinning, and people are dying down here.

WWL: If some of the public called and they're right, that there's a law that the president, that the federal government can't do anything without local or state requests, would you request martial law?

NAGIN: I've already called for martial law in the city of New Orleans. We did that a few days ago.

WWL: Did the governor do that, too?

NAGIN: I don't know. I don't think so.

But we called for martial law when we realized that the looting was getting out of control. And we redirected all of our police officers back to patrolling the streets. They were dead-tired from saving people, but they worked all night because we thought this thing was going to blow wide open last night. And so we redirected all of our resources, and we hold it under check.

I'm not sure if we can do that another night with the current resources.

And I am telling you right now: They're showing all these reports of people looting and doing all that weird stuff, and they are doing that, but people are desperate and they're trying to find food and water, the majority of them.

Now you got some knuckleheads out there, and they are taking advantage of this lawless -- this situation where, you know, we can't really control it, and they're doing some awful, awful things. But that's a small majority of the people. Most people are looking to try and survive.

And one of the things people -- nobody's talked about this. Drugs flowed in and out of New Orleans and the surrounding metropolitan area so freely it was scary to me, and that's why we were having the escalation in murders. People don't want to talk about this, but I'm going to talk about it.

You have drug addicts that are now walking around this city looking for a fix, and that's the reason why they were breaking in hospitals and drugstores. They're looking for something to take the edge off of their jones, if you will.

And right now, they don't have anything to take the edge off. And they've probably found guns. So what you're seeing is drug-starving crazy addicts, drug addicts, that are wrecking havoc. And we don't have the manpower to adequately deal with it. We can only target certain sections of the city and form a perimeter around them and hope to God that we're not overrun.

WWL: Well, you and I must be in the minority. Because apparently there's a section of our citizenry out there that thinks because of a law that says the federal government can't come in unless requested by the proper people, that everything that's going on to this point has been done as good as it can possibly be.

NAGIN: Really?

WWL: I know you don't feel that way.

NAGIN: Well, did the tsunami victims request? Did it go through a formal process to request?

You know, did the Iraqi people request that we go in there? Did they ask us to go in there? What is more important?

And I'll tell you, man, I'm probably going get in a whole bunch of trouble. I'm probably going to get in so much trouble it ain't even funny. You probably won't even want to deal with me after this interview is over.

WWL: You and I will be in the funny place together.

NAGIN: But we authorized $8 billion to go to Iraq lickety-quick. After 9/11, we gave the president unprecedented powers lickety-quick to take care of New York and other places.

Now, you mean to tell me that a place where most of your oil is coming through, a place that is so unique when you mention New Orleans anywhere around the world, everybody's eyes light up -- you mean to tell me that a place where you probably have thousands of people that have died and thousands more that are dying every day, that we can't figure out a way to authorize the resources that we need? Come on, man.

You know, I'm not one of those drug addicts. I am thinking very clearly.

And I don't know whose problem it is. I don't know whether it's the governor's problem. I don't know whether it's the president's problem, but somebody needs to get their ass on a plane and sit down, the two of them, and figure this out right now.

WWL: What can we do here?

NAGIN: Keep talking about it.

WWL: We'll do that. What else can we do?

NAGIN: Organize people to write letters and make calls to their congressmen, to the president, to the governor. Flood their doggone offices with requests to do something. This is ridiculous.

I don't want to see anybody do anymore goddamn press conferences. Put a moratorium on press conferences. Don't do another press conference until the resources are in this city. And then come down to this city and stand with us when there are military trucks and troops that we can't even count.

Don't tell me 40,000 people are coming here. They're not here. It's too doggone late. Now get off your asses and do something, and let's fix the biggest goddamn crisis in the history of this country.

WWL: I'll say it right now, you're the only politician that's called and called for arms like this. And if -- whatever it takes, the governor, president -- whatever law precedent it takes, whatever it takes, I bet that the people listening to you are on your side.

NAGIN: Well, I hope so, Garland. I am just -- I'm at the point now where it don't matter. People are dying. They don't have homes. They don't have jobs. The city of New Orleans will never be the same in this time.

WWL: We're both pretty speechless here.

NAGIN: Yeah, I don't know what to say. I got to go.

WWL: OK. Keep in touch. Keep in touch.

link (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/nagin.transcript/index.html)

[timvp]

I think Nagin's situation is much, much more difficult than the situation that Guiliani handled so beautifully in NYC after 9/11. At least Guiliani had a disaster that was confined to a few city blocks. Most of the people of NYC could return to their homes on 9/11 and every night thereafter. The city generally had power and working sewers, and maintained land-line telephone communications. First responders and volunteers could get to where they needed to be and could do it immediately. The government could easily mobilize aid and get it into the area without significant problems by the next day. His police forces, though devastated by the attack, were still available to maintain the peace and keep order. The people of NYC also didn't fight against the relief efforts.

Nagin, by contrast, has no city to work with, a dwindling police force that until recently has had no available deterrent, and a mob of criminals bent on interfering with any relief efforts that are undertaken.

Comparing the two situations -- seeing Nagin unfavorably compared to Giuliani -- is patently ridiculous.

:tu

Nagin comes across to me as an honest guy who loves his city. He gets emotional easy, but I'd rather have that than a bunch of slow moving Feds who are taking their time getting down souf.

[Guru of Nothing]

I'm impressed with what Nagin said.

I wish I had cable so I could stay abreast on matters.

In a nutshell, he's saying someone needs to step and push massive amounts of resources to NO.

This ball is SQUARELY in Bush's court.

[The Ressurrected One]

So, exactly what did New Orleans municipal officials, Jefferson Parish officials, and Louisiana State officials do, beforehand, to mitigate the catastrophic results of Hurricane Katrina?

And, in that same vein, what has FEMA, DHS, and the rest of the federal alphabet not done that would have lessened the suffering of the victims of Hurricane Katrina?

Emergency Preparedness and Response are the primary responsibility of the local, county, and state governments...unless and until...such preparedness and response becomes ineffective and the local, county, and state governments request federal assistance.

I've heard a lot of empty criticism of President Bush, FEMA, and DHS but, nothing specific about where they're falling short.

I will tell you one thing, the President deserves a whole hell of a lot of credit for lessening the effects of this disaster on the residents of New Orleans -- where they're own elected officials failed them. How can I say this?

What prompted the order (http://www.nola.com/newsflash/louisiana/index.ssf?base/news-18/1125239940201382.xml&storylist=louisiana) that prevented Hurricane Katrina from being a natural disaster of unprecedented magnitude?


The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave the city should.

Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference, said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding.
The City of New Orleans and its residents owe the President a profound debt of gratitude.

And, why did the Mayor of New Orleans allow this fleet of buses to remain in a location that would flood if the worst happened?

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.flpc21109012015.hurricane_katrina_flpc211.jpg ?x=380&y=235&sig=NbUvEfVIaferkxoZTiys0Q--

Face it, the only reason this mayor hasn't been lynched on Rue Bourbon as yet is that he's effectively deflecting blame from himself onto the President...and, 'til now, it's worked.

But, after the water subsides and the facts are known, he'll have quite a bit to answer for. As will other Louisiana officials, up to and including their babbling Governor.

Most of the attention is being focused not on the local and state officials who have responsibility for disaster preparedness, but on the federal government.

Even at the federal level, I've not seen any informed criticism of FEMA or any other relevant federal agency, or any detailed analysis of the formidable logistical problems that make the relief effort painfully difficult. No, the critics aren't interested in such targets or such details. What they want is to bash President Bush, and we'll hear more and more of it as the days go by.

So far, though, the left has had a hard time finding a theory.

Let's look at a couple of the left's early attempts at making this stick on President Bush:

The National Guard --

The key point I see on the National Guard issue is that they are a fighting force, not a disaster recovery force. That is what we are spending hundreds of billions of dollars for [the Guard] over the years. It is like owning a car. In my family, for example, we have one car. My wife works at home and I use the car to drive to work.

Now, if our son breaks his arm skateboarding while my I'm at work, my wife won't have the car available to rush him over to the emergency room. So, is it bad that I use the car for its primary purpose? No. We wouldn't spend $10,000 a year just to have the car sitting in the driveway ready for those rare emergencies, but having a car that is used primarily for driving to work means that it is also available for emergencies the rest of the time as an added bonus.

So it is with the National Guard. If we weren't using them sometimes as a military force, we wouldn't be spending all that money to hire, train and equip them, so they wouldn't be available on those rare occasions when a disaster occurs anyway. Even if it would help to have those extra National Guardsmen available at this moment in New Orleans, if they weren't occasionally used for warfare, there would be no Guard at all for use in disaster recovery. As it is the state has thousands ready to deploy.

And, in an unprecedented move, the federal government has facilitated agreements between Louisiana and other states so that their National Guard troops -- under the control of the respective state Governors -- can be "loaned" to Louisiana and still have legal authority to execute their duties as military police, etc...

The levee system around New Orleans --

Michelle Malkin has a definitive deconstruction of the "underfunded levee construction" theory, which yesterday seemed like the left's most promising line of attack. The Army Corps of Engineers (http://www.chicagotribune.com/services/site/premium/access-registered.intercept) says the "underfunding" theory is bogus:


The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers said Thursday that a lack of funding for hurricane-protection projects around New Orleans did not contribute to the disastrous flooding that followed Hurricane Katrina.

In a telephone interview with reporters, corps officials said that although portions of the flood-protection levees remain incomplete, the levees near Lake Pontchartrain that gave way--inundating much of the city--were completed and in good condition before the hurricane.

However, they noted that the levees were designed for a Category 3 hurricane and couldn't handle the ferocious winds and raging waters from Hurricane Katrina, which was a Category 4 storm when it hit the coastline. The decision to build levees for a Category 3 hurricane was made decades ago based on a cost-benefit analysis.
Maybe the left will have to go back to global warming. Yeah, yeah, I know...they already are.

So, again, How is this all President Bush's fault and none of the State of Louisiana's?

Who's idea was it to use the Superdome? Who's ideas was it not to stage critical emergency services and potential rescue and recovery resources outside the "bowl" of New Orleans until it was certain the levees would not fail? Who's to blame for filling up the Convention center with refugees without communicating this to those who are attempting to coordinate a cogent rescue and recovery plan? Why have 40% of the New Orleans Police Department walked off the job since Saturday?

What was the culture of the local goverment before this disaster...that would lead sworn officers to join the looters?

[Jelly]

I think it's very understandable for Nagin to blow up at this point. Anybody in his situation would toss diplomacy to the wayside by now. If none of us can control our emotions from a distance, surely people in the trenches watching their own people die are going to be losing it.

Still, had Nagin properly evacuated these people before hand....

[JoeChalupa]

The fact is help was way too slow in getting there and Nagin was on the mark.

[The Ressurrected One]

The fact is help was way too slow in getting there and Nagin was on the mark.
The levees busted Monday...how long do you think it takes to assemble the necessary resources?

[JoeChalupa]

We were able to drop supplies in two days after the Tsunami.

But I could be mistaken. I'm not blamin' Bush but the reaction time and the fact that he himself said that the response was "unacceptable" leads me to believe that it doesn't take a genius to figure out that this was a cluster fuck.
It could have been done quicker and faster because we've seen it done.

[JoeChalupa]

And damnit I'm damn pleased that Bush has taken the bull by the horns and gettin' shit done!!!

[Guru of Nothing]

blah blah blah

Shit is broke.

Shit has to be fixed.

yawa rorrim weivrear eht tup.

[Jelly]

The levees busted Monday...how long do you think it takes to assemble the necessary resources?

No, the Hurricane occurred Monday morning and everyone was saying - including people on this forum- that New Orleans dodged a bullet. The levees broke Tuesday.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

i love how TRO asks questions that the Mayor himself addressed in his rant


the major idea that Nagin tried to get across was that AFTER the federal government stepped in, they did not do a good job of assessing the situation.
once again someone on "the right" starts twisting facts into "whats wrong with 'the left'"

dude if you gained 55 pounds, so that your voice sounded fat, you could be Rush Limbaugh's protege

[spurster]

Nagin is the biggest hero in this horrid disaster. He's been the main one who has continued to put this thing in front of the public and government the whole time. If he hadn't been speaking up, this might have been much worse. He's made some mistakes, but on the whole, he's come up a big plus.

On a slightly different note: I have gained a huge respect for the police, firemen, and people of New York City and their initial response to 9/11, essentially with no federal help. They held together and helped each other. They were truly a class act compared to NO.

[The Ressurrected One]

No, the Hurricane occurred Monday morning and everyone was saying - including people on this forum- that New Orleans dodged a bullet. The levees broke Tuesday.
And the U.S. Coast Guard (a federal agency) was evacuating people on Tuesday. The National Guard was slinging food and water to pockets of people on Tuesday...which, by the way was only three days ago.

Everyone's acting like the federal government didn't start anything until today.

[The Ressurrected One]

i love how TRO asks questions that the Mayor himself addressed in his rant


the major idea that Nagin tried to get across was that AFTER the federal government stepped in, they did not do a good job of assessing the situation.
once again someone on "the right" starts twisting facts into "whats wrong with 'the left'"

dude if you gained 55 pounds, so that your voice sounded fat, you could be Rush Limbaugh's protegeThe federal government stepped in yesterday...until then, they were in a support role that acted at the direction of the Governor of Louisiana.

What's your point. And, exactly what did the mayor address in his rant that answered my questions?

[The Ressurrected One]

Nagin is the biggest hero in this horrid disaster. He's been the main one who has continued to put this thing in front of the public and government the whole time. If he hadn't been speaking up, this might have been much worse. He's made some mistakes, but on the whole, he's come up a big plus.
He's screaming while the aid goes in around him...as it has been since Tuesday.

On a slightly different note: I have gained a huge respect for the police, firemen, and people of New York City and their initial response to 9/11, essentially with no federal help. They held together and helped each other. They were truly a class act compared to NO.
Yeah, 40% of the police force has quit. Some have joined the looters. The looters have been shooting at rescuers. Local government apparently made no preparations for caring for a large number of evacuees in the event it became difficult to reach them...as it has.

Yeah, good job mayor.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

And, in that same vein, what has FEMA, DHS, and the rest of the federal alphabet not done that would have lessened the suffering of the victims of Hurricane Katrina?



Manpower.

[ididnotnothat]

Way to speak up my brother.

[The Ressurrected One]

Manpower.
FEMA and DHS had its maximum resources deployed all over the Gulf region. Each of the affected States had already order their respective National Guard forces into a readiness state and positioned them.

What other resources would you have deployed and where would you have staged them? The area of destruction (New Orleans isn't the only place affected) is the size of Great Britain.

The storm came and went and on Monday all seemed fine. Had the President staged 50,000 active duty troops outside the levees of New Orleans, he would have been ridiculed by noon for wasting our resources. In addition, he would have been blasted for pushing the States around.

Every available federal resource was deployed at the time of the hurricane. Does anyone not remember the collective sigh of relief when the levees held? I guess not...

And, besides, they weren't requested by the States.

What part of "the States have primary responsibility for Emergency Preparedness, Mitigation, and Response" do you not understand?

[Cant_Be_Faded]

what a stateman.....right up there with churchill, FDR, lincoln.....

dumbass committed political suicide today.

every canidate that runs against him in any election will use that sound bite to show that he is a bit unstable and cannot handle leadership responsibilty.



i can see other people taking this speech he made and becoming a strong supporter of his

his statements make me think he IS a man of leadership, hes stepping out of the norm to try and get things done NOW, hes not taking precautions to suck up to Bush hes flat out saying whoever is responsible fucking help us now

[The Ressurrected One]

National Guard units were mobilized immediately (http://www.ngb.army.mil/news/story.asp?id=1742); 7,500 troops from four states were on the ground within 24 hours of Katrina — a commendable response given the disruptions to the transportation infrastructure. The DOD response is well ahead of the 1992 Hurricane Andrew timetable. Back then, the support request took nine days to crawl through the bureaucracy. The reaction this time was less than three days officially, and DOD had been pre-staging assets in anticipation of the aid request from the moment Katrina hit. DOD cannot act independently of course; the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is the lead agency. Requests for assistance have to be routed from local officials through FEMA to U.S. Northern Command and then to the necessary components. In practice, this means state officials have to assess damage and determine relief requirements; FEMA has to come up with a plan for integrating the military into the overall effort; DOD has to begin to pack and move the appropriate materiel, and deploy sufficient forces. This has all largely been or is being accomplished. Seven thousand mostly Navy and other specialized assets are currently in the area directly supporting hurricane relief (http://www.defenselink.mil/news/Sep2005/20050901_2590.html), and a much larger number of other forces are en route. The process has been functioning remarkably smoothly under the circumstances.

It is hard to understand what more should, or realistically could have been done up to this point.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

let me clarify

when i said 'whoever is responsible' i meant whoever is responsible for the delayed and inefficient help right now

not responsible for the hurricaine or responsible for not evacuating

we're talking about what Nagin said, and what he was mostly trying to say is that NOW right NOW (not prevention, not days ago)
nowwww...the assistance is inefficient and whoever is responsible for this inefficiency is who i was talking about

[Cant_Be_Faded]

TRO if he had not mentioned "the president" (his words) i think you'd be less emphatic in trying to make him seem outta line.

[The Ressurrected One]

let me clarify

when i said 'whoever is responsible' i meant whoever is responsible for the delayed and inefficient help right now

not responsible for the hurricaine or responsible for not evacuating

we're talking about what Nagin said, and what he was mostly trying to say is that NOW right NOW (not prevention, not days ago)
nowwww...the assistance is inefficient and whoever is responsible for this inefficiency is who i was talking about
And I'm saying that his ill-preparation has made the job of rescue and recovery infinitely more difficult and that the additional resources brought to bear since the collapse of local, parish, and state government functionality have performed admirably.

[The Ressurrected One]

TRO if he had not mentioned "the president" (his words) i think you'd be less emphatic in trying to make him seem outta line.
He's way out of line...and, I know why. He knows he fucked up and now, he's trying to shove the blame everywhere but where it belongs.

The President had to plead with those bozos to order a mandatory evacuation...and, by then, it was nearly too late. What else did this screamin' meme do, prior to the storm, that prepared his city for disaster?

Did he move emergency resources out of the city? No.

Did he make sure hospitals had enough emergency supplies to last for 72 hours (as is the standard in emergency preparedness)? Apparently not.

Did he muster his troops and, if so, why did 40% of his police force walk off the job? Nope.

You know, the President isn't the king of the country. He can't just order local and state government officials around and tell them how to protect their own constituencies... He has to wait until he's asked and then, he has to direct his resources as the local officials want them directed...unless and until that system breaks down which, obviously, it now has.

Now, you're going to see how President Bush handles a disaster.

[The Ressurrected One]

Oh, yeah. Who remembers this?

A year ago after Hurricane Charley, the president was accused (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/08/16/national/main636126.shtml) of responding too quickly, allegedly to curry favor with Florida voters.


"Even before the storm hit, the president declared four counties disaster areas to speed federal money to victims. But that quick response fueled suspicion that he is using disaster politics to help his campaign in one of the most critical battleground states,..."

[spurster]

TRO claims to be a libertarian, but he is a pure Bush apologist.

[The Ressurrected One]

TRO claims to be a libertarian, but he is a pure Bush apologist.
Just stating the facts... Besides, I don't think he's acting counter to libertarian principles in this instance.

[Guru of Nothing]

Just stating the facts... Besides, I don't think he's acting counter to libertarian principles in this instance.

TROll, you are NOT a Libertarian. Drop the facade.

AND, last I inquired, God is pissed your nose is stuck up his ass.

[The Ressurrected One]

TROll, you are NOT a Libertarian. Drop the facade.

AND, last I inquired, God is pissed your nose is stuck up his ass.
Whatever gets you through the night....

But, nice rebuttal to all my points.

[Guru of Nothing]

nice rebuttal to all my points.

You fail to comprehend. If you write 100 sentences, I read two.

That's twice as many as I read from NBA Dan.

[The Ressurrected One]

You fail to comprehend. If you write 100 sentences, I read two.

That's twice as many as I read from NBA Dan.
Well, that solves the mystery of your user name.

[Nbadan]

He's way out of line...and, I know why. He knows he fucked up and now, he's trying to shove the blame everywhere but where it belongs.

The President had to plead with those bozos to order a mandatory evacuation...and, by then, it was nearly too late. What else did this screamin' meme do, prior to the storm, that prepared his city for disaster?

Did he move emergency resources out of the city? No.

Did he make sure hospitals had enough emergency supplies to last for 72 hours (as is the standard in emergency preparedness)? Apparently not.

Did he muster his troops and, if so, why did 40% of his police force walk off the job? Nope.

You know, the President isn't the king of the country. He can't just order local and state government officials around and tell them how to protect their own constituencies... He has to wait until he's asked and then, he has to direct his resources as the local officials want them directed...unless and until that system breaks down which, obviously, it now has.

Now, you're going to see how President Bush handles a disaster.

We've seen enough of how W handles a disaster.


The state of Louisiana begged for help on Sunday August 28
by John in DC - 9/02/2005 10:19:00 PM

And Bush had no idea Louisiana needed help until after his vacation Wednesday night, at least that's what the GOP is now trying to spin. The state government NEVER said they needed federal help. Oh yeah, well here's the letter begging for it on SUNDAY, four days before Bush ended his vacation.

Here's the memo: Link (http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf)

[Nbadan]

FEMA News Releases (http://www.fema.gov/news/newsarchive.fema?year=2005&month=8)

Notice that there are two Emergency Declarations made on Aug 28th for Alabama and Mississippi, but none for Louisiana. Rather there is Emergency Aid Authorized For Hurricane Katrina Emergency Response In Louisiana on Aug 27 which says in part:


FEMA will mobilize equipment and resources necessary to protect public health and safety by assisting law enforcement with evacuations, establishing shelters, supporting emergency medical needs, meeting immediate lifesaving and life-sustaining human needs and protecting property, in addition to other emergency protective measures.

Did FEMA help NOPD with evacuations? Did FEMA provide emergency medical needs, meet immediate lifesaving and life-sustaining human needs, or protect property??

The only difference between an Emergency Declaration and Emergency Aid Authorization appears to be Emergency Declarations (http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18447) include "federal funds...for public safety debris removal and emergency protective measures at 75 percent of approved costs."

So why is there no FEMA Emergency Declaration for Louisiana?

[whottt]

He was out of line and he was passing the buck. I can't believe anyone thinks what this guy is doing remotely resembles leadership. He's covering his ass.

I think he is genuinely upset at what is happening to his citizens...don't get me wrong...but this guy fucked up worse than anyone in this entire deal...and he is definitely covering his ass in a predictable and cliched fashion...but it'll sell with the right heavyweight Democrats and get him off the hook....so therefore I give him points for a saavy political manuever...but he's going to get hung out to dry when it is all said and done...and it's going to be his citizens that do it...

Smart politician...probably sincere and well meaning as well...but saying this guy is a leader is a fucking joke...a huge one. It takes more than releasing 3 memos, pointing fingers, and cussing, to make a leader.

[Nbadan]

He was out of line and he was passing the buck. I can't believe anyone thinks what this guy is doing remotely resembles leadership. He's covering his ass.

Covering his ass for what? His constituents dieing in the streets? I think we are well beyond that. TRO posted all this hogwash about how the Mayor and the Governor deserve a lions share of the blame for not asking for help quick enough, but I posted a letter that showed the Mayor asked for assistance from FEMA on Sunday. Sunday. What could FEMA have done?


Here are just a few Executive Orders associated with FEMA that would suspend the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. These Executive Orders have been on record for nearly 30 years and could be enacted by the stroke of a Presidential pen:

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10997 allows the government to take over all electrical power, gas, petroleum, fuels and minerals.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11921 allows the Federal Emergency Preparedness Agency to develop plans to establish control over the mechanisms of production and distribution, of energy sources, wages, salaries, credit and the flow of money in U.S. financial institution in any undefined national emergency. It also provides that when a state of emergency is declared by the President, Congress cannot review the action for six months.

911review.org (http://www.911review.org/Wiki/FemaTheSecretGovernment.shtml)

Let's cut the BS, this was a FED fuck-up from the start and now it has grown into a cluster-fuck. Why am I not surprised?

[smeagol]

According to TRO, Bush can do no wrong.

No surprises there.

Next.

[smeagol]

You fail to comprehend. If you write 100 sentences, I read two.

That's twice as many as I read from NBA Dan.
:lol

[gameFACE]

Most of the attention is being focused not on the local and state officials who have responsibility for disaster preparedness, but on the federal government.
Not true. This can be answered in the very first sentence of the article you linked. Thanks.


Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last resort for people to go, including the Superdome.

In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray Nagin.

Th criticism of the federal government is aimed at the response "after" damage. And that is for the remaining population. Most of the city evacuated. This was a national disaster even before the levees failed.


How is this all President Bush's fault and none of the State of Louisiana's?
Where in the interview transcript does it say that? You must have missed this quote from Nagin:

Now, I will tell you this -- and I give the president some credit on this -- he sent one John Wayne dude down here that can get some stuff done, and his name is [Lt.] Gen. [Russel] Honore.
I would recommend actually listening to the interview as well.


Who's idea was it to use the Superdome? Who's ideas was it not to stage critical emergency services and potential rescue and recovery resources outside the "bowl" of New Orleans until it was certain the levees would not fail? Who's to blame for filling up the Convention center with refugees without communicating this to those who are attempting to coordinate a cogent rescue and recovery plan? Why have 40% of the New Orleans Police Department walked off the job since Saturday?
Those were areas of last resort. Warnings were issued prior to their use as your article also indicates. If there is a chance that the idea of using these areas of refuge might save a few more lives instead of having ALL of the remaining population die, then it is more successful than if the state and local governments totally abandoned them after giving them appropriate warning.

Your analogy is a bit silly but............
If your son accidentally cuts his arm off you risk him not able to have it reattached. He won’t have his arm because it rotted but he might live just well without it. But if you ask a neighbor to help you out by driving him to the hospital your son might have full use of his arm. But if your neighbor waits until he finishes playing his X-Box and finally hears you or your wifes cry for help then either the rot might set in rendering the arm useless or your son bleeds to death.

You should buy a cheap Yugo or Citroen.


We were able to drop supplies in two days after the Tsunami.

But I could be mistaken. I'm not blamin' Bush but the reaction time and the fact that he himself said that the response was "unacceptable" leads me to believe that it doesn't take a genius to figure out that this was a cluster fuck.
It could have been done quicker and faster because we've seen it done.
:tu


On a slightly different note: I have gained a huge respect for the police, firemen, and people of New York City and their initial response to 9/11, essentially with no federal help. They held together and helped each other. They were truly a class act compared to NO.
The entire city of NO is paralyzed. They have no power, no potable water or working sanitary and storm sewer systems. There is not a direct comparison to 911 although it's also a tragedy. NYC’s damage was isolated and there were working hospitals, communication and transportation available and with adequate surrounding infrastructure. Another comparison is in the willingness of your neighbor to help out. What a commie idea!

The key word Nagin used in his warning is “unprecedented”. Mother nature is capable of destruction far more than any group of terrorists can think of.

Nagin isn't afraid to say what he really thinks at this point. I applaud him for not masking supposed "leadership" qualities with terrible political sound bytes or photo ops.

[JoeChalupa]

I give props to Bush for kickin' some ass.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

According to TRO, Bush can do no wrong.

No surprises there.

Next.



hahahahaha

so true....i swear, TRO has never EVERRR admitted Bush doing anything remotely wrong....and the second you point out something you think is wrong, he calls you a lefty leftist, unamerican, unpatriotic
its like listening to Sean Hannity

i've never seen TRO ever admit Bush has done anything wrong
at least I admit he can and has done things right

but TRO thinks he belongs on mount rushmoore!

[scott]

Somethings never change.

Facts of life:

TRO will defend anything Bush does.

Joe is TRO's bitch.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

scott is a sooner

[scott]

Don't remind me...

[The Ressurrected One]

hahahahaha

so true....i swear, TRO has never EVERRR admitted Bush doing anything remotely wrong....and the second you point out something you think is wrong, he calls you a lefty leftist, unamerican, unpatriotic
its like listening to Sean Hannity

i've never seen TRO ever admit Bush has done anything wrong
at least I admit he can and has done things right

but TRO thinks he belongs on mount rushmoore!
He's wrong on immigration policy.
He's wrong on Drug Interdiction policy.

But, so are the Democrats...and, he's better than they would be on both those issues.

I still believe he belongs on Mount Rushmore.

[smeagol]

I still believe he belongs on Mount Rushmore.
Agreed.

In a booth at Mt. Rushmore's site, selling tickets to the tourists.

[Dos]

I guess the mayor never read this memo...

WHY DIDN'T YOU DEPLOY THE BUSES DURING THE MANDATORY EVACUATION, MAYOR?...

Louisiana disaster plan, pg 13, para 5 , dated 01/00

'The primary means of hurricane evacuation will be personal vehicles. School and municipal buses, government-owned vehicles and vehicles provided by volunteer agencies may be used to provide transportation for individuals who lack transportation and require assistance in evacuating'...