Illegal Immigrants Growing Impatient

[TheSanityAnnex]

http://news.yahoo.com/immigrants-us-feel-stuck-judge-blocks-obama-orders-204503468.html (http://news.yahoo.com/immigrants-us-feel-stuck-judge-blocks-obama-orders-204503468.html)

TUCSON, Arizona (AP) — Brenda Armendariz, her husband and their two Mexico-born children were hoping to resolve their constant fears of being deported after President Barack Obama issued his latest executive orders on immigration
.

But now that a federal judge in Texas has blocked Obama's efforts to protect 4 million more immigrants, her family is disillusioned and her children feel stuck as the president's offer of temporary legal status moves frustratingly beyond their reach.
About a third of the immigrants now living in the United States illegally would be eligible for temporary protection if Obama's latest orders are upheld in court, either because they were brought to the U.S. as children or because their own children have legal status in the country.
But the advances and retreats on reform have been so frequent over the years that many thousands of immigrants who are already eligible for protection have given up for now — they aren't applying for the work permits and Social Security numbers they are entitled to under Obama's first executive order in 2012.
There are a litany of reasons why, including general distrust of the government, fear they'll be deported, and the nearly $500 in fees it costs to apply. But the constant uncertainty created by Washington's political divide also keeps them away.
About 150 people have reached out to Arizona immigration attorney Lance Wells this week, reacting with bafflement, fear and dismay to the latest reversal, he said. His message: "Be patient guys. We kind of knew this would be coming."
But their patience is wearing thin.

:lol




Armendariz and her husband came to Tucson a decade ago with a son and daughter, meaning to stay just long enough to earn some cash and head home to the Mexican state of Sonora. Instead, they overstayed their visas and settled down. Those children are now 21 and 13, joined by two American citizen siblings: a 3-year-old boy and a one-month-old girl.

Like so many other immigrants, this family has "mixed status," and the mother, father and two oldest children didn't qualify for protection under Obama's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA program, nearly three years ago.
With the goal of keeping such families together, Obama's executive orders announced in November would have applied to the older siblings starting on Wednesday, and the parents starting in May.
U.S. District Judge Andrew Hanen of Texas temporarily blocked both expansions after Obama's opponents sued, calling it an overreach of presidential power. The Obama administration plans to appeal, but 21-year-old Itzayana Aguirre Armendariz is already giving up.
"I don't know if it's just anger or disillusionment," Armendariz said. "I tell her to not close herself off; that Obama already signed (the executive actions) and that now it's just about waiting and fighting."
Aguirre Armendariz had to drop out of community college her freshman year because her family couldn't afford the out-of-state tuition that immigrants lacking legal status must pay in Arizona. She was studying engineering and wants to go back to school, but is stuck helping her mom make and sell tortillas and bread.
With the latest injunction causing more delays, she announced to the family that she wants to move back to Mexico. Her father overruled that, but they know they can't keep their daughter's future on hold forever.

Armendariz's 13-year-old boy is still in public school and had his hopes set on Disneyland, but those too were dashed; driving far from home remains too risky and expensive, she said.
Roman Beltran, of Phoenix, also didn't qualify for DACA's first round, but would be eligible under the expansion. He was brought to the U.S. from Mexico at 5. "I was really upset and frustrated because this is not the first time that I get my hopes up with immigration," he said.
Beltran had been on a separate path to legal permanent residency through his wife until they got divorced. Now 36, he feels taken advantage of by the political battles, and says he simply wants to work and contribute.


"I just want a job, is what it boils down to," Beltran said. "To be able to get a job legally, pay my taxes."

[boutons_deux]

...

[Th'Pusher]

Go Spurs!

[m>s]

Could be worse, they could be in concentration camps where they belong working off their debt to the people of the United state

[boutons_deux]

Repugs and you rightwingnuts have NO SOLUTION to the 10M+ illegal immigrants.

I suppose you Nazis and white supremacists like the "boxcar Final Solution"

[TheSanityAnnex]

WUdVA2fmUz8

[ElNono]

Reagan knew what's up with this... baffling current conservatives don't get it.

[Nero5]

so lets see ... there are 10 million people in the country, most working and they want to pay taxes and participate in democracy the GOP doesn't want them?

[Dirk Oneanddoneski]

I suppose you Nazis and white supremacists like the "boxcar Final Solution"


Exactly, but for real this time, not the made in Hollywood bullshit scam for shekels like the last one

[boutons_deux]

Repugs and you rightwingnuts have NO SOLUTION to the 10M+ illegal immigrants.

I suppose you Nazis and white supremacists like the "boxcar Final Solution"

[m>s]

We have the best solution, crack down and make them pay us back on the way out the door. Shake them down at the border.

[SupremeGuy]

so lets see ... there are 10 million criminals in the country illegally, most working(link?) and they want to pay taxes(link?) and participate in democracy the GOP doesn't want them?FIFY

[Wild Cobra]

so lets see ... there are 10 million people in the country, most working and they want to pay taxes and participate in democracy the GOP doesn't want them?
It wouldn't be so bad if they were taking away jobs that citizens should be working.

We don't need them, nor want them. Let them go through the legal process.

If employers cannot find workers at wages paid, they will simply have to raise wages to find workers.

[ElNono]

I've said many times before I dislike illegals, but politically speaking, it's suicide. A lot of those people have families that are legal and vote. Amongst hispanics, the immigration problem is priority #1. We're talking about a demographic that currently encompasses 17% of the US population, 9% of actual voters, and growing. A demographic that has voted Republican in the past. The talk of self-deportation was absolutely stupid, and the reality is that even if you kick them out, we still have a porous border where they just get back in.

I understand this is a topic that resonates well with the base, but it's extremely short-sighted. A better battle would be to mount pressure to finally close down the border and stricter monitoring for tourist visas, then you figure out how to deal with the remnants inside.

[moisaenz]

It's funny how illegal immigrants say they want to pay taxes, of course they do they usually get tax refunds

[m>s]

I've said many times before I dislike illegals, but politically speaking, it's suicide. A lot of those people have families that are legal and vote. Amongst hispanics, the immigration problem is priority #1. We're talking about a demographic that currently encompasses 17% of the US population, 9% of actual voters, and growing. A demographic that has voted Republican in the past. The talk of self-deportation was absolutely stupid, and the reality is that even if you kick them out, we still have a porous border where they just get back in.

I understand this is a topic that resonates well with the base, but it's extremely short-sighted. A better battle would be to mount pressure to finally close down the border and stricter monitoring for tourist visas, then you figure out how to deal with the remnants inside.
the only part any sane person agrees with is shutting down the border first. cut off the head of the snake. i think you and i differ greatly on what we'd do from there though. there is literally no reason why we couldn't deport them, in fact the government has done it twice in the past ever heard of operation wetback?

[Infinite_limit]

Meanwhile in Israel


http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2007/2140654325_b63ae7f152_z.jpg

[ElNono]

the only part any sane person agrees with is shutting down the border first. cut off the head of the snake. i think you and i differ greatly on what we'd do from there though. there is literally no reason why we couldn't deport them, in fact the government has done it twice in the past ever heard of operation wetback?

Sure there's a reason. You would be splitting a lot of families and creating resentment amongst a block that has a growing voting power. I would rather all be deported too, but speaking in terms of reality, it's political suicide, especially when elections are won on very thin margins, like they are nowadays.

But, again, what to do after closing the border is a complex situation that would require a careful solution, but largely irrelevant until you secure the border and especially the visitor's visa situation. There's actually more illegals overstaying their tourists visas than people crossing the border, IIRC.

[m>s]

Muh splitting families. Tough shit. The 10% of legal immigrants who can vote would be dwarfed by the gains in votes by working class americans (the 90%) who would be exstatic about the problem getting taken care of

[FkLA]

smh at wanting to deport people

Not talking about m>s since he's an idiot but everyone else. The ones that commit crimes send their ass back but the ones that are simply here to try to create a semblance of a normal life?Put yourselves in the shoes of them for a moment. Fuck politics, sending them back to nothing and tearing up their families is wrong on a humanity scale.

[Clipper Nation]

smh at wanting to deport people

Not talking about m>s since he's an idiot but everyone else. The ones that commit crimes send their ass back but the ones that are simply here to try to create a semblance of a normal life?Put yourselves in the shoes of them for a moment. Fuck politics, sending them back to nothing and tearing up their families is wrong on a humanity scale.
ALL illegal immigrants are committing a crime, so by your logic, they all should be deported.

[FkLA]

ALL illegal immigrants are committing a crime, so by your logic, they all should be deported.

Fleeing a country that provides few opportunities to better your life (and your family's) isn't a crime. I'd imagine we'd all do the same if put in the same position.

Semantics aside, how is deporting hard working people and tearing their families apart not inhumane?

[m>s]

They're a net loss and take more than they give, the only person it isn't humane for is the american people

[FkLA]

Funny, my life isn't affected by undocumented people. Neither should yours unless you are competing with them for a hard manual labor job.

[SupremeGuy]

Funny, my life isn't affected by undocumented people. Neither should yours unless you are competing with them for a hard manual labor job.You don't pay taxes?

[FkLA]

You don't pay taxes?

You don't think they pay taxes?

And undocumented people aren't the reason I pay taxes. I'd be paying them regardless.

[SupremeGuy]

You don't think they pay taxes?

And undocumented people aren't the reason I pay taxes. I'd be paying them regardless.Don't move the goalposts. You made a stupid statement and I pointed it out. lol

[FkLA]

Don't move the goalposts. You made a stupid statement and I pointed it out. lol

Not really. My taxes aren't affected by them anymore than they are by you. You're wrongfully assuming that the don't pay taxes. In reality, a large majority of them work with false documentation and get taxes taken out of their paychecks just like you or me. I know it's fun to think they all get paid under the table but that's not how it actually works.

[FkLA]

That doesn't even include property or sales/excise taxes. From my understanding being undocumented doesn't allow you to dodge those. :lol

[Dirk Oneanddoneski]

Fleeing a country that provides few opportunities to better your life (and your family's) isn't a crime. I'd imagine we'd all do the same if put in the same position.

Semantics aside, how is deporting hard working people and tearing their families apart not inhumane?

Couple questions if you don't mind since you're in here FKLA

Are you a Mestizo? If you are do you know what percent native American you are and what % European?

Can you trace any of your family's roots to Spain or Europe?

Are you a northern or southern Mexican?

And which country do you think is more racist Mexico or the USA?

[HI-FI]

It does feel like I woke up in a bizarro version of the US, where the elites keep pushing illegals openly despite the majority of Americans being against it. Crazy how Obama is trying to re-write the laws, despite that being illegal itself, and people try to make excuses for lawlessness.

I've said many times before I dislike illegals, but politically speaking, it's suicide. A lot of those people have families that are legal and vote. Amongst hispanics, the immigration problem is priority #1. We're talking about a demographic that currently encompasses 17% of the US population, 9% of actual voters, and growing. A demographic that has voted Republican in the past. The talk of self-deportation was absolutely stupid, and the reality is that even if you kick them out, we still have a porous border where they just get back in.

I understand this is a topic that resonates well with the base, but it's extremely short-sighted. A better battle would be to mount pressure to finally close down the border and stricter monitoring for tourist visas, then you figure out how to deal with the remnants inside.
I agree with you. I'd be okay with biting the bullet and legalizing the ones here (i'm sure it's much more than 11 million or whatever bs number they are throwing out) if they would finally get serious about resolving the problem. If you aren't going to have perimeter D, at least have some interior defense. But we both know even if the amnesty goes through, they won't be serious about securing anything. Them globalists gotta eat first etc....Feels like Rome imo, absorbing cultures, pushing our way of life onto others and countless wars.

[Clipper Nation]

Fleeing a country that provides few opportunities to better your life (and your family's) isn't a crime. I'd imagine we'd all do the same if put in the same position.

Semantics aside, how is deporting hard working people and tearing their families apart not inhumane?
Circumventing our immigration laws is a crime. Get a legal visa or GTFO.

With how much of a drug/violence infested shithole Mexico is, opening up the border would be inhumane to the American citizens who live near it.

[m>s]

You don't think they pay taxes?

And undocumented people aren't the reason I pay taxes. I'd be paying them regardless.
They get back far more than they ever give. Every time they go to the ER to pop out one of their little brown shits it costs the taxpayer more than a years wages.

[SupremeGuy]

Not really. My taxes aren't affected by them anymore than they are by you. You're wrongfully assuming that the don't pay taxes. In reality, a large majority of them work with false documentation and get taxes taken out of their paychecks just like you or me. I know it's fun to think they all get paid under the table but that's not how it actually works.Yes it is, actually.

Regardless, economically they're a net deficit; ie, they're taking more money from the government and from American citizens than they're putting into the system.

"In 2013, The Heritage Foundation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation) released a study concluding that at the current time, the average unlawful immigrant household has a net deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of $14,387 per household. During the interim phase immediately after amnesty, tax payments would increase more than government benefits, and the average fiscal deficit for former unlawful immigrant households would fall to $11,455. At the end of the interim period, unlawful immigrants would become eligible for means-tested welfare and medical subsidies under Obamacare. Average benefits would rise to $43,900 per household; tax payments would remain around $16,000; the average fiscal deficit (benefits minus taxes) would be about $28,000 per household. Amnesty would also raise retirement costs by making unlawful immigrants eligible for Social Security and Medicare, resulting in a net fiscal deficit of around $22,700 per retired amnesty recipient per year."

You can find similar numbers in multiple studies after a quick google search, tbh. I get it, you would probably rather bury your head in the sand, but don't make ridiculous statements like you're not getting affected by them. :toast

[ElNono]

Muh splitting families. Tough shit. The 10% of legal immigrants who can vote would be dwarfed by the gains in votes by working class americans (the 90%) who would be exstatic about the problem getting taken care of

It's really not that complicated, the other 90% of americans prioritize other things on their vote (economy being almost always #1, partisanship, civil rights, etc). Neither the liberals or conservatives can win an election with the base alone anymore. Now they need to capture these small voting blocks.

[ElNono]

Circumventing our immigration laws is a crime. Get a legal visa or GTFO.

Technically speaking, it's not. The illegal entry of non-nationals into the United States is a misdemeanor, but most people don't know that.

[m>s]

Fucking unreal that they get that kind of government money or that anyone does for that matter. I work my ass off and penny pench to save mkney snd these assholes get things given to them.

[m>s]

Technically speaking, it's not. The illegal entry of non-nationals into the United States is a misdemeanor, but most people don't know that.
Well our government is criminal, it needs to be changed to a felony with 5 years forced labor.

[ElNono]

It does feel like I woke up in a bizarro version of the US, where the elites keep pushing illegals openly despite the majority of Americans being against it. Crazy how Obama is trying to re-write the laws, despite that being illegal itself, and people try to make excuses for lawlessness.

I agree with you. I'd be okay with biting the bullet and legalizing the ones here (i'm sure it's much more than 11 million or whatever bs number they are throwing out) if they would finally get serious about resolving the problem. If you aren't going to have perimeter D, at least have some interior defense. But we both know even if the amnesty goes through, they won't be serious about securing anything. Them globalists gotta eat first etc....Feels like Rome imo, absorbing cultures, pushing our way of life onto others and countless wars.

It really does boil down to this. Elites want the cheap labor, liberals can't be made to care about the issue, and so you have this problem that isn't getting tackled. Barry's move is simply long-term political pandering.

There are middle-ground solutions, like perhaps providing temporary worker visas without possibility of citizenship for those jobs that Americans simply don't want to do. But again, it's all moot until you start closing off the border.

[FkLA]

Circumventing our immigration laws is a crime. Get a legal visa or GTFO.

With how much of a drug/violence infested shithole Mexico is, opening up the border would be inhumane to the American citizens who live near it.

Most of them apply for a legal VISA. What if you were one of the many that didn't get a legal VISA, what would you do?

Nobody is saying to open the border. You still monitor it, although as long as Mexico continues to be a corrupt shithole people will continue to flee. But I'm actually talking about the ones that have already made a life here, pay taxes and have kids. Breaking them up is inhumane especially since for most of them the father is the lone breadwinner. Do an extensive background check on them and deport the ones that aren't worth a shit, put the others on a probationary period of residency...if they continue to contribute to society no reason why they shouldn't eventually be given permanent residence.

[ElNono]

Fucking unreal that they get that kind of government money or that anyone does for that matter. I work my ass off and penny pench to save mkney snd these assholes get things given to them.

Not just that. I spent a shitload of time and money to do things right. These guys want to jump the line and it's insulting.

[SupremeGuy]

Not just that. I spent a shitload of time and money to do things right. These guys want to jump the line and it's insulting.Very fucking true. The people getting screwed the hardest are the people trying to get into America the right and legal way. You're not supposed to bring that up, tbh. It's something the dems don't want to talk about.

[FkLA]

Yes it is, actually.

"In 2013, The Heritage Foundation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heritage_Foundation) released a study concluding that at the current time, the average unlawful immigrant household has a net deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of $14,387 per household. During the interim phase immediately after amnesty, tax payments would increase more than government benefits, and the average fiscal deficit for former unlawful immigrant households would fall to $11,455. At the end of the interim period, unlawful immigrants would become eligible for means-tested welfare and medical subsidies under Obamacare. Average benefits would rise to $43,900 per household; tax payments would remain around $16,000; the average fiscal deficit (benefits minus taxes) would be about $28,000 per household. Amnesty would also raise retirement costs by making unlawful immigrants eligible for Social Security and Medicare, resulting in a net fiscal deficit of around $22,700 per retired amnesty recipient per year."

You can find similar numbers in multiple studies after a quick google search, tbh. I get it, you would probably rather bury your head in the sand, but don't make ridiculous statements like you're not getting affected by them. :toast

No, it's not. I personally know of a couple hundred undocumented people that don't get paid under the table.

Here's an article I came across:

A study by the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy (http://www.itep.org/pdf/undocumentedtaxes.pdf) (ITEP) found that undocumented immigrants paid $10.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2010, a figure that includes $1.2 billion in personal income taxes, $1.2 billion in property taxes, and more than $8 billion in sales and excise taxes. The study found that undocumented immigrants are “likely paying about 6.4 percent on average of their income in state and local taxes,” which is a tax rate close to that of “taxpayers in similar income situations and, in many states, can be higher than the effective tax rates paid by upper income taxpayers.”


Regardless, economically they're a net deficit; ie, they're taking more money from the government and from American citizens than they're putting into the system.

Hard to tell. U.S. citizens aren't exactly net positives. I'm pretty sure I've read the article you posted, and IIRC the average documented household has a much bigger net deficit.

Deport undocumented people and their contributions to Social Security and Medicaid go away, those two programs might fall apart. You'd be losing billions in property and sales taxes as well.

[FkLA]

Not just that. I spent a shitload of time and money to do things right. These guys want to jump the line and it's insulting.

Not sure how you can compare yourself to people who immigrate as a last resort. If I had to guess, I'd say you had a college degree prior to coming here. Probably had some working experience in your field in Argentina. Immigrating to the US was a luxury for you not a necessity. That's a little different than unskilled people who are coming here to work manual labor jobs so they can provide for their relatives back in Mexico, no ?

[m>s]

"Deport undocumented people and their contributions to Social Security and Medicaid go away, those two programs might fall apart. You'd be losing billions in property and sales taxes as well."

but we'd save even more in healthcare, prison, and crime costs so literally nothing of value would be lost.

[m>s]

Not sure how you can compare yourself to people who immigrate as a last resort. If I had to guess, I'd say you had a college degree prior to coming here. Probably had some working experience in your field in Argentina. Immigrating to the US was a luxury for you not a necessity. That's a little different than unskilled people who are coming here to work manual labor jobs so they can provide for their relatives back in Mexico, no ?
then man up and fix your own country you little mooch

[SupremeGuy]

No, it's not. I personally know of a couple hundred undocumented people that don't get paid under the table.

Here's an article I came across:

A study by the Institute for Taxation and Economic Policy (http://www.itep.org/pdf/undocumentedtaxes.pdf) (ITEP) found that undocumented immigrants paid $10.6 billion in state and local taxes in 2010, a figure that includes $1.2 billion in personal income taxes, $1.2 billion in property taxes, and more than $8 billion in sales and excise taxes. The study found that undocumented immigrants are “likely paying about 6.4 percent on average of their income in state and local taxes,” which is a tax rate close to that of “taxpayers in similar income situations and, in many states, can be higher than the effective tax rates paid by upper income taxpayers.”



Hard to tell. U.S. citizens aren't exactly net positives. I'm pretty sure I've read the article you posted, and IIRC the average documented household has a much bigger net deficit.

Deport undocumented people and their contributions to Social Security and Medicaid go away, those two programs might fall apart. You'd be losing billions in property and sales taxes as well. They may pay similar taxes is certain situations, but they're a larger drain on the economy, so like I said earlier; they're a net deficit.

Understand now?

[FkLA]

They may pay similar taxes is certain situations, but they're a larger drain on the economy, so like I said earlier; they're a net deficit.

Understand now?

False. The average American household has a considerably bigger net deficit than an illegal household. You can say they're a net deficit but you can't say they are a bigger drain than the average American, so like I said earlier; they're not affecting my life anymore than you are.

Understand now?

[SupremeGuy]

False. The average American household has a considerably bigger net deficit than an illegal household. You can say they're a net deficit but you can't say they are a bigger drain than the average American, so like I said earlier; they're not affecting my life anymore than you are.

Understand now?False. If you did a quick google search you'd find that you're wrong and just talking out of your ass now. It's quite clear you refuse to believe the truth so this conversation has reached it's end. Good day.

[Clipper Nation]

Why should taxpayer money be wasted on background checks on every would-be moocher that wants to hop the border when it would be a lot easier and more efficient to give our immigration laws some teeth and actually enforce them?

[Clipper Nation]

then man up and fix your own country you little mooch
Exactly. Americans don't go running across the Canadian border illegally every time we have a problem, Mexico needs to take the initiative to clean up their shithole.

[FkLA]

False. If you did a quick google search you'd find that you're wrong and just talking out of your ass now. It's quite clear you refuse to believe the truth so this conversation has reached it's end. Good day.

From the exact same article from which you posted that little excerpt from:

Gordon Hansen of UCSD has carried out many studies on immigration. His conclusion on illegal immigration is that:illegal immigration’s overall impact on the US economy is small. Low-skilled native workers who compete with unauthorized immigrants are the clearest losers. US employers, on the other hand, gain from lower labor costs and the ability to use their land, capital, and technology more productively. The unauthorized immigrants themselves see very substantial income gains after migrating.

:cry but they affect my life so much :cry


Exactly. Americans don't go running across the Canadian border illegally every time we have a problem, Mexico needs to take the initiative to clean up their shithole.

Easy to say when you haven't really been faced with those type of issues. I'm sure if you ever did, you'd have no problem running to Canada.
??

[m>s]

Easy to say when you haven't really been faced with those type of issues. I'm sure if you ever did, you'd have no problem running to Canada.
??
my ancestors did face adversity. they responded by giving the british empire the middle finger and carving the greatest country that ever existed out of nothing. this is my birthright by way of my ancestors. illegals have absolutely no rights here and thats where you are mistaken.

[FkLA]

my ancestors did face adversity. they responded by giving the british empire the middle finger and carving the greatest country that ever existed out of nothing. this is my birthright by way of my ancestors. illegals have absolutely no rights here and thats where you are mistaken.

Starting a revolution now is a little different than 250 years ago.

I'm sure you'd go grab your little bb gun and be on the front line against tanks and fighter jets if the government was oppressing you. :lol

[TheSanityAnnex]

Not sure how you can compare yourself to people who immigrate as a last resort. If I had to guess, I'd say you had a college degree prior to coming here. Probably had some working experience in your field in Argentina. Immigrating to the US was a luxury for you not a necessity. That's a little different than unskilled people who are coming here to work manual labor jobs so they can provide for their relatives back in Mexico, no ?mexicans are lazy, I'd take a Guatamalen any day of the week.

[ElNono]

Not sure how you can compare yourself to people who immigrate as a last resort. If I had to guess, I'd say you had a college degree prior to coming here. Probably had some working experience in your field in Argentina. Immigrating to the US was a luxury for you not a necessity. That's a little different than unskilled people who are coming here to work manual labor jobs so they can provide for their relatives back in Mexico, no ?

Let me preface that I'm more than conscious this is a delicate topic, and that the average, non-latino American really lacks the understanding of how strongly non-cuban latinos feel about this. Thus the position I described earlier about political suicide and such.

The reality is that the US has a 'humanitarian crisis' type of immigration visas, but that's not what's going on here. If some of these people are desperate, then they should apply for asylum in the US or any other country and simply respect and go through the laws and process. The average latino though, it's very "flexible", shall we say, about that. It's a different idiosyncrasy, but that doesn't make it right. As far as the jobs that Americans really don't want to do and are more of a seasonal type of job, well, let's find a middle ground: temporary worker visas, they can do the job, and take off when they're done, with a good pile of money wherever they go back to.

Let me tell you a story: back in WWII, my grandfather was headed on a ship to New York, after his brother was captured and killed in the War. New York closed down the port and simply said "we're full". Ship refueled, and headed to the 2nd largest American port at the time, Buenos Aires. And that's how my family ended up there. This is WWII we're talking about, and yet the US finally figured that they couldn't take anymore. At some point we're going to have to figure out that we're only going to take in people that can show they're really desperate and that they truly need asylum, going through the proper channels.

[Nero5]

my ancestors did face adversity. they responded by giving the british empire the middle finger and carving the greatest country that ever existed out of nothing. this is my birthright by way of my ancestors. illegals have absolutely no rights here and thats where you are mistaken.

My what a sad little world you must live in. You have 'birthrights'? So you don't have to work, or strive, you can freeload on the work of your ancestors. Not surprised really.

[FkLA]

Let me preface that I'm more than conscious this is a delicate topic, and that the average, non-latino American really lacks the understanding of how strongly non-cuban latinos feel about this. Thus the position I described earlier about political suicide and such.

The reality is that the US has a 'humanitarian crisis' type of immigration visas, but that's not what's going on here. If some of these people are desperate, then they should apply for asylum in the US or any other country and simply respect and go through the laws and process. The average latino though, it's very "flexible", shall we say, about that. It's a different idiosyncrasy, but that doesn't make it right. As far as the jobs that Americans really don't want to do and are more of a seasonal type of job, well, let's find a middle ground: temporary worker visas, they can do the job, and take off when they're done, with a good pile of money wherever they go back to.

Let me tell you a story: back in WWII, my grandfather was headed on a ship to New York, after his brother was captured and killed in the War. New York closed down the port and simply said "we're full". Ship refueled, and headed to the 2nd largest American port at the time, Buenos Aires. And that's how my family ended up there. This is WWII we're talking about, and yet the US finally figured that they couldn't take anymore. At some point we're going to have to figure out that we're only going to take in people that can show they're really desperate and that they truly need asylum, going through the proper channels.

Don't think there's any argument for it being asylum, especially since the two governments have a pretty good relationship.

Just saying, assuming asylum/VISAs are denied can you really blame them when the alternative is living in extreme poverty? Is crossing illegally in search of a normal life really enough of a 'crime' for yall to condone deporting them with no regard for the fact that families will be torn apart? I'm talking on a humanity scale, obviously legally I understand that being undocumented is a crime.

Temporary work permits are good in theory. Just can't imagine how they would be issued at such high volume. The supply would never meet the demand imo. Also since cost of illegals is an issue the anti-immigration people like to bring up, I'd imagine it'd be pretty expensive to give them benefits in the workplace--similar to what citizens/permanent residents have.

[m>s]

My what a sad little world you must live in. You have 'birthrights'? So you don't have to work, or strive, you can freeload on the work of your ancestors. Not surprised really.
My birthright is to be able to do all of those things in America, the country that my ancestors built and that I inherited. Mexicans and everyone else have no such right. And if you want to be technical it's immoral to take away the brightest from other countries and take their manpower keeping them perpetually down. Mexicans should have some pride and build up mexico.

[m>s]

Starting a revolution now is a little different than 250 years ago.

I'm sure you'd go grab your little bb gun and be on the front line against tanks and fighter jets if the government was oppressing you. :lol
What is Vietnam

what is iraq

what is afghanistan

what is syria

what is Iran

What is ukraine

a government can't just go around carpet bombing it's own citizenry. There goes it's manpower, infrastructure, and ability to make money. And foreign governments will outright step in or at least arm the resistance. Novorussia has all but defeated the ukrAnian army by capturing their own equipment and using it against them. We have former aircraft pilots in the militia movement who could fly a jet if people were to take over an air force base. ISIS now has jets that they captured from the Iraqi military. It's very doable.

[ElNono]

Just saying, assuming asylum/VISAs are denied can you really blame them when the alternative is living in extreme poverty? Is crossing illegally in search of a normal life really enough of a 'crime' for yall to condone deporting them with no regard for the fact that families will be torn apart? I'm talking on a humanity scale, obviously legally I understand that being undocumented is a crime.

There's simply two competing interests at play. If they couldn't cross over to the US, then they would probably head somewhere else. It's big world, the US isn't the only country out there. Plus let's be honest here, it's not just "poor" people crossing, it costs a good chunk of money to pay a coyote from what I hear, and the reality is that the majority of illegals actually enter with a tourist visa, which means we're talking middle-class and up.

The whole family situation is complicated, but not everyone is in that situation, and until the US secures the border and stops families from actually taking root here, the rest is a waste of time.

[ElNono]

a government can't just go around carpet bombing it's own citizenry. There goes it's manpower, infrastructure, and ability to make money. And foreign governments will outright step in or at least arm the resistance. Novorussia has all but defeated the ukrAnian army by capturing their own equipment and using it against them. We have former aircraft pilots in the militia movement who could fly a jet if people were to take over an air force base. ISIS now has jets that they captured from the Iraqi military. It's very doable.

No it isn't.

[m>s]

2015 and wars are still won with boots on the ground, haven't you learned anything? The militia movement is 250,000 strong. American gun owners number over 100 million. The government literally couldn't contain an uprising, there is absolutely no way how they would be able to do so. They couldn't police iraq, how would they do it here? On their own turf? You're delusuonal but go ahead and be specific and explain how they'd do it, be detailed and I'll pick it apart.

[ElNono]

There's no uprising coming.

[m>s]

That's not what the argument was.

[ElNono]

A revolution would require an uprising. There's none coming. Sorry, bruh.

[FkLA]

There's simply two competing interests at play. If they couldn't cross over to the US, then they would probably head somewhere else. It's big world, the US isn't the only country out there. Plus let's be honest here, it's not just "poor" people crossing, it costs a good chunk of money to pay a coyote from what I hear, and the reality is that the majority of illegals actually enter with a tourist visa, which means we're talking middle-class and up.

The whole family situation is complicated, but not everyone is in that situation, and until the US secures the border and stops families from actually taking root here, the rest is a waste of time.

Where? Every country south of the US is shit.

The cost of a coyote doesn't say anything about the how well off people crossing over are. Family/friends that are already here pitch in to cover the cost from what I've seen. Maybe I'm basing too much on people from my little town but the ones that I've seen cross over illegally aren't middle class. Money sent from the US is by far that town's biggest source of income. Shit, I still have cousins/uncles that support their families back in Mexico that way. Just can't bring myself to call someone that does that a criminal. Definitely can't bring myself to say they deserve to have their families torn apart. Not their faults some of us were born into better situations tbh.

[ElNono]

:lol If you're picky, then you're not that desperate...

And yeah, I know what you're saying, but then you're not looking at: what does the US gets for that? Heck, sending money away sucks, it doesn't even contribute to the US economy by spending the money they earned here.
Calling them names doesn't solve anything, but we can't keep going with the free for all we have now, and I understand that we need to find a solution that causes the less damage possible, family-wise.

But if you gonna catch em and send them back, you gotta have a border that keeps em out. We don't have that right now.

[ElNono]

I would also add that securing the border in the times we live in should be a priority besides of the immigration situation. It's a natsec issue.

[m>s]

A revolution would require an uprising. There's none coming. Sorry, bruh.
you said that it couldn't be done, that's another thing entirely. i don't think it's coming barring economic collapse, but stranger things have happened. sadly people are complacent with football and food on the table. food stamps are literally the only thing holding it together still

[ElNono]

you said that it couldn't be done, that's another thing entirely. i don't think it's coming barring economic collapse, but stranger things have happened. sadly people are complacent with football and food on the table. food stamps are literally the only thing holding it together still

That's actually the primary reason it's not doable. The first sign of another Waco and your average american is grabbing the popcorn and glued to the TV...

[m>s]

Where? Every country south of the US is shit.

The cost of a coyote doesn't say anything about the how well off people crossing over are. Family/friends that are already here pitch in to cover the cost from what I've seen. Maybe I'm basing too much on people from my little town but the ones that I've seen cross over illegally aren't middle class. Money sent from the US is by far that town's biggest source of income. Shit, I still have cousins/uncles that support their families back in Mexico that way. Just can't bring myself to call someone that does that a criminal. Definitely can't bring myself to say they deserve to have their families torn apart. Not their faults some of us were born into better situations tbh.
If your neighbors Heat or ac goes out is it cool if they stay with you?

[Nero5]

My birthright is to be able to do all of those things in America, the country that my ancestors built and that I inherited. Mexicans and everyone else have no such right. And if you want to be technical it's immoral to take away the brightest from other countries and take their manpower keeping them perpetually down. Mexicans should have some pride and build up mexico.

It's curious that you claim this 'birthright' without evidence and yet you are so blatantly willing to rip it away from others based on colour, your so simple vision of race and religion regardless of their family or personal history.

[TheSanityAnnex]

It's curious that you claim this 'birthright' without evidence and yet you are so blatantly willing to rip it away from others based on colour, your so simple vision of race and religion regardless of their family or personal history.
He's got the stupidest schtick, but you're still wrong on his take.

[Nero5]

OK, wrong how?
Why is the past efforts of others worthy of you having more rights than someone else. What are the limits of these supposed rights ... does a person who has three generations of US born family have the same rights as someone with 10 generations? Happy to hear the explanation.

[Winehole23]

We have former aircraft pilots in the militia movement who could fly a jet if people were to take over an air force base.We?

[boutons_deux]

Obama, and other serious people, have been WAITING, for YEARS, to see proposals from Repugs about how to resolve the 10M+ illegal aliens.

The "no discussion until border is hermetically sealed" is Repug "we don't want a solution" bullshit.

Boner REFUSED to even vote on the Senate's BI-PARTISAN comprehensive immigration bill, saying the House would "solve" the immigration problem in piece by piece, iow, take YEARS to do anything. The wonderful House Repugs still have no proposals.

To try to be fair to you legal aliens, the Senate bill had penalties, and back taxes, and "go to end of the immigration waiting line", plus more $1000s paid to immigration lawyers.

Repugs had from 2001 - 2006 to "solve" the immigration problem, and all they did was blow $5B+ on Boeing's electronic wall, a risible failure.

iow, the 6 years, the Repugs were in power, they did nothing,not even proposals.

Repugs know their business paymasters and business investors benefit from cheap, ripped off immigrant labor, and won't do anything to stop that hidden War on Employees.

[boutons_deux]

Republican Governors Support DHS Shutdown Over Immigration

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/replican-governors-dhs-shutdown?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpm-news+%28TPMNews%29

Flaccid Boner said he supports a DHS shutdown, so it sure seems like it's going to happen, in 5 days.

And of course ALL the Repug objections to, attacks on Obama's Exec Order are bullshit LIES.

[m>s]

Boutons we do have the solution. Not republicans but us real conservatives and patriots. Do you know about those empty fema camps they built? Let's put them to good use, if we can put a man on the moon we can put a be@ner over the border.

[m>s]

W all know what the constitution calls for in the event of treason!! Let's get the ball rolling, and do it the right way through the court system. Whoooo !!!

[boutons_deux]

American Voters Split On Obama's Immigration Move, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds



American voters are divided on whether President Barack Obama should take action to address the immigration issue if Congress fails to act, as 45 percent say the president should issue an executive order while 48 percent say he should not, according to a Quinnipiac University National poll released today.


At the same time, support for immigrants is at its lowest level ever measured by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University Poll. Offered three choices on what to do about illegal immigrants:




48 percent of American voters say they should be allowed to stay, with a path to citizenship, down from 57 percent November 13, 2013, and the lowest this number ever has been;
11 percent say immigrants should be allowed to stay, but not be allowed to apply for citizenship, consistent with previous surveys;
35 percent say illegal immigrants should be required to leave the U.S., up from 26 percent 12 months ago and higher than this number ever has been.




There is a wide gender gap on Obama's action, as women support it 50 - 39 percent, while men oppose it 57 - 39 percent. Support is 59 - 33 percent among voters 18 to 29 years old, but drops among older voters, with voters over 65 years old opposed 53 - 36 percent.


Democrats support Obama's immigration move 74 - 18 percent, with opposition at 75 - 20 percent among Republicans and 51 - 40 percent among independent voters.


"While President Barack Obama's popularity wallows, support for immigrants wanes as Americans look at immigration reform with ambivalence," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll.


American voters oppose 68 - 25 percent Congress shutting down "major activities of the federal government" as a way to block Obama's immigration move.


Only 44 percent of Republicans support a shutdown, with 47 percent opposed.


"Americans seem divided on immigration, but they agree on one thing: They don't want a government shutdown over President Obama's action on immigration," Malloy added.


http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2115

But Repugs don't care about shutting down the DHS, since Krazy Kruz shut govt down for 2 weeks, and Repugs still "won" in 2012 election (with the lowest The American People turnout in 80 years)

[TheSanityAnnex]

American Voters Split On Obama's Immigration Move, Quinnipiac University National Poll Finds



American voters are divided on whether President Barack Obama should take action to address the immigration issue if Congress fails to act, as 45 percent say the president should issue an executive order while 48 percent say he should not, according to a Quinnipiac University National poll released today.


At the same time, support for immigrants is at its lowest level ever measured by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University Poll. Offered three choices on what to do about illegal immigrants:




48 percent of American voters say they should be allowed to stay, with a path to citizenship, down from 57 percent November 13, 2013, and the lowest this number ever has been;
11 percent say immigrants should be allowed to stay, but not be allowed to apply for citizenship, consistent with previous surveys;
35 percent say illegal immigrants should be required to leave the U.S., up from 26 percent 12 months ago and higher than this number ever has been.




There is a wide gender gap on Obama's action, as women support it 50 - 39 percent, while men oppose it 57 - 39 percent. Support is 59 - 33 percent among voters 18 to 29 years old, but drops among older voters, with voters over 65 years old opposed 53 - 36 percent.


Democrats support Obama's immigration move 74 - 18 percent, with opposition at 75 - 20 percent among Republicans and 51 - 40 percent among independent voters.


"While President Barack Obama's popularity wallows, support for immigrants wanes as Americans look at immigration reform with ambivalence," said Tim Malloy, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Poll.


American voters oppose 68 - 25 percent Congress shutting down "major activities of the federal government" as a way to block Obama's immigration move.


Only 44 percent of Republicans support a shutdown, with 47 percent opposed.


"Americans seem divided on immigration, but they agree on one thing: They don't want a government shutdown over President Obama's action on immigration," Malloy added.


http://www.quinnipiac.edu/news-and-events/quinnipiac-university-poll/national/release-detail?ReleaseID=2115

But Repugs don't care about shutting down the DHS, since Krazy Kruz shut govt down for 2 weeks, and Repugs still "won" in 2012 election (with the lowest The American People turnout in 80 years)
Wonder what caused the change in opposition numbers.

[boutons_deux]

Wonder what caused the change in opposition numbers.

Very probably the xenophobic, racist right-wing hate media rousing, lying to the rabble.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Very probably the xenophobic, racist right-wing hate media rousing, lying to the rabble.
So the Democrats are buying it too?

[boutons_deux]

So the Democrats are buying it too?

Probably, esp Dem men.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Probably, esp Dem men.
Interesting.

[boutons_deux]

Republicans Just Blinked In The Big Immigration Stare-Down With Obama

Republicans just blinked on immigration.

The months-long standoff over President Barack Obama's executive actions on immigration (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/obama-legalize-five-million-undocumented-immigrants) took a major turn late Monday when Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) proposed decoupling funding for the Department of Homeland Security from legislative action against Obama on deportations.

The threat of withholding DHS funding to block Obama's immigration moves has been the centerpiece of the GOP's political strategy for months. McConnell's proposal to delink them is another sign that he's trying to find a way out of a battle that GOP leaders in both chambers never really wanted, but which has been pushed by the rank and file in the House.

The DHS funding bill that blocks Obama's initiatives to shield more than 4 million people from deportation has already passed the House, but McConnell has been unable to overcome a Democratic filibuster in the Senate. McConnell brought it to a vote again Monday afternoon, and for the fourth time (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/dhs-fourth-filibuster) Senate Democrats successfully filibustered it.

Moments later, McConnell put legislation on the calendar to overturn Obama's immigration actions in a standalone manner — separate from DHS funding.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/republicans-blink-on-immigration?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpm-news+%28TPMNews%29

:lol Repugs getting force-fed their own obstructionist, filibustering tactics, and whining, bitching, moaning about it. :lol

[Winehole23]

In a news release Management and Training Corporation, which runs the prison, said the problems started this morning when inmates refused to eat breakfast and complained about medical services at the facility.
MTC says several inmates broke out of the housing units and made their way to the recreational yard.


Sheriff Spence said at one point he saw 200 to 300 inmates walking around in the recreation yard.


The company says there are now approximately 2,000 inmates taking part in the disturbance. Another 1,000 inmates housed in a separate facility are not involved.
Prison officials say they used tear gas to try to bring the situation under control. They say inmates set fire to three of the 10 prison tents causing minor damages.

http://www.valleymorningstar.com/news/local_news/article_b650fb84-b933-11e4-96ba-2b83cc287c42.html

Read more here: http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2015/02/22/3502251/authorities-regain-control-of.html#storylink=cpy

[Winehole23]

As many as 2,800 federal prisoners will be moved to other institutions after inmates seized control of part of a prison in South Texas, causing damage that made the facility "uninhabitable," an official said Saturday.http://www.thenewstribune.com/2015/02/21/3650909/as-many-as-2800-inmates-to-be.html

Read more here: http://www.thenewstribune.com/2015/02/21/3650909/as-many-as-2800-inmates-to-be.html#storylink=cpy

[ChumpDumper]

W all know what the constitution calls for in the event of treason!!What does it call for?

[Winehole23]

“It’s a predictable consequence of the Bureau of Prisons turning a blind eye to the abuse at Criminal Alien Requirement prisons,” said Carl Takei, a staff attorney at the ACLU who visited the facility in 2013.

The Bureau of Prisons did not respond to a request for comment for this story.


“Willacy is aptly a symbol of everything that is wrong with the criminalization of immigration and BOP’s use of privatization,” Takei told Fusion.


And inmates have reportedly talked about attacking the facility for years.


“Sometimes [prisoners] become so frustrated that they even speak of burning down the tents,” an inmate named Dante told the ACLU more than a year ago.
Takei said when he visited Willacy inmates described “vermin and insects” crawling in and out of the tents, overflowing toilets, along with severe overcrowding.

http://fusion.net/story/52778/two-day-uprising-at-immigrant-prison-was-predictable-reform-advocates-say/

[ElNono]

This would be this same prison, correct?

Scandal dims hopes in Willacy County
Optimism over new jail facilities is overshadowed by bribery cases

By JAMES PINKERTON
Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle Rio Grande Valley Bureau

RAYMONDVILLE - When traditional jobs in agriculture and the oil patch began to shrink, Willacy County saw salvation in prisons and jails.

A 540-bed jail opened for federal prisoners in 2003 and a 96-bed county jail is now nearing completion, both located next to an existing state jail at the main crossroads of this rural county in the deep Rio Grande Valley.

In addition to the jobs provided at the facilities, county officials envisioned ringing cash registers as inmates' families made visits, spending money at local hotels, gas stations and restaurants.

"It meant jobs," Willacy County Sheriff Larry Spence said of the county jail for federal inmates, which cost $24 million to build. ''Unfortunately, we don't have a whole lot of businesses here. It's mostly farming, and even some farmers and ranchers got out of that. If you don't work for the county, the city or the schools, that's about it."

The two jails, when operating at full capacity, would add a combined 480 jobs to the county economy.

But today, the optimism has been overshadowed by scandal. A pair of county commissioners await sentencing in April after admitting taking bribes from corporate executives in exchange for voting on jail contracts. The executives haven't been identified in federal charges.

The bribery scandal and resulting charges are just the latest crises in what have been a rough few years for Willacy County, where a third of the 20,000 residents live in poverty and less than half of those old enough to have earned high school diplomas have one.

[m>s]

Nono you're a south aryan right? Hop on bord Homie we border patrol now

[Winehole23]

likely, dunno

[ElNono]

Nono you're a south aryan right? Hop on bord Homie we border patrol now

lol I get a chuckle every time I see a "SECEDE" sticker in south Texas... and I see a lot of them :lol

[m>s]

?Argentina = white is the joke. Surprisingly they are pretty white

[ElNono]

?Argentina = white is the joke. Surprisingly they are pretty white

I actually hear there's a lot more black folk over there these days. DAF86 would know better, I suspect.

[DAF86]

I actually hear there's a lot more black folk over there these days. DAF86 would know better, I suspect.

Yep, lot's of African folks selling jewelry on the streets. Still don't make up even 1% of the population though but you do see a lot more than in past years (at least here in the Patagonia). Hopefully we start producing some African-Argentinians athletes soon, tbh.

[m>s]

Yep, lot's of African folks selling jewelry on the streets. Still don't make up even 1% of the population though but you do see a lot more than in past years (at least here in the Patagonia). Hopefully we start producing some African-Argentinians athletes soon, tbh.
Ugh don't go down that path whatever you do. Avoid the 'groid

[DAF86]

Ugh don't go down that path whatever you do. Avoid the 'groid

Why son? They sell some nice looking stuff, tbh.

[m>s]

I mean allowing nog infestation in your country

[Winehole23]

The detention center is run by the Management and Training Corporation, which operates ten other facilities (http://www.texasprisonbidness.org/map?operating_company=736&contracting_agency=All) around the state, employed 373 workers at the site, about half of whom live in the Raymondville and Willacy County areas while the rest live across the Rio Grande Valley." Those folks are now looking for work. According to the McAllen Monitor (http://www.themonitor.com/news/local/willacy-faces-prison-job-losses/article_8db325a6-bd5e-11e4-996c-f711e5fca9a0.html), "The prison pays [Willacy County] for every inmate it holds, pumping more than $2.7 million into county coffers last year." In addition, "In Raymondville, City Manager Eleazar Garcia said the prison’s closure could mean the loss of about $50,000 a month in water sales in the city whose annual budget projected about $3.6 million in water revenue." Observed the SA Express News (http://www.expressnews.com/news/local/article/Willacy-county-reeling-after-prison-riot-6106034.php#/0):


The Willacy County economy is deeply dependent on the prison industry, floating tens of millions of dollars in bonds through a “Public Facilities Corp.” to build the Correctional Center. The county also has a 500-bed detention center operated by MTC under a U.S. Marshals contract, and a 1,000-bed state jail, operated by Corrections Corp. of America.


Each of the more than 2,800 prisoners in the Willacy correctional facility puts $2.50 per day in county coffers, adding up to about a quarter of its yearly budget of $8.1 million. It’s unclear who will be ultimately responsible for repairs to the building or how soon prisoners will return, if at all, leading some officials to worry the county could soon be faced with a budget shortfall.

Further, "The county owes about $63 million on the prison that opened in 2006," according to the county auditor, but the commissioners court claims "bond holders would assume any risk." That's a bit of fanciful thinking of which I'm sure the good folks in McLennan County could dissuade them (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2010/05/waco-taxpayers-likely-on-hook-for-debt.html), if anyone has ears to listen. Or, maybe they'll listen to S&P, which just downgraded the county's bond rating (http://www.texasprisonbidness.org/physical-and-sexual-abuse/prisoners-transferred-county-government-sp-rating-downgraded-wake-uprising) because of episode.http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2015/03/willacy-county-facing-economic.html

[Winehole23]

Let's bottom line the effectiveness of Texas' border security measures. DPS and the National Guard aren't immigration enforcers and they score no "apprehensions" following the overwhelming number of documented "detections" of illegal border crossings (53 out of 113,000 (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2015/02/dps-surge-will-take-four-years-to-staff.html)). So from a law enforcement perspective, drug enforcement vs. the cartels is the main reason they're down there (even if most of the GOP base fails to grasp the distinction). Jeremy Schwartz at the Austin Statesman (http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news/state-regional/officials-border-efforts-had-little-impact-on-drug/nkK7j/#e29001ff.3559866.735657) (Feb. 27) further demonstrated the futility of that effort when he reported that the DPS surge has had no impact on retail drug prices in Texas, at all, meaning DPS has done nothing to reduce drug supplies and the whole "surge" gambit has been a pointless fiasco.


Indeed, reported Schwartz, drug prices declined during this period, meaning availabilty of drugs increased in response to the DPS surge, or at least in spite of it. This exchange from a recent Texas Senate Finance Committee meeting captured the seldom-spoken reality:


“Can you sit there and say there’s been a reduction of street drugs in any of our major metropolitan areas?” [state Sen. John] Whitmire continued.


“I can’t say there has been,” [DPS chief Steve] McCraw responded. “The challenge we have now with numbers on street cost, there’s no question that it’s a good indicator of whether we are succeeding or not.”

Instead, “'We’re not seeing any slowdown in supply,' said Greg Thrash, resident agent in charge of the Drug Enforcement Administration in Austin.' From the wholesale level, (illegal drug prices) are dropping like the price of gas (was).'”


Illegal drugs operate in an unfettered black market and their pricing reflects raw supply and demand. If prices are "dropping," more drug supply is entering the market, meaning DPS' "surge" not only didn't reduce drug trafficking, they presided over its statewide expansion with this misbegotten "Ready, Fire, Aim!" strategy.http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2015/02/dps-border-surge-failed-to-reduce-drug.html

[Winehole23]

See related Grits posts:


DPS surge will take four years to staff; apprehension rate abysmal on border crossings (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2015/02/dps-surge-will-take-four-years-to-staff.html)

Lies, damn lies and drug war statistics: DPS edition (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2015/02/lies-damn-lies-and-drug-war-statistics.html)
DPS border 'surge' compromised crime fighting in rest of state (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2015/02/dps-border-surge-compromised-crime.html)
If Lege can pay $735 million for border boondoggle, why can't they scrounge $220 million from the couch cushions to abolish the Driver Responsibility surcharge? (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2015/02/if-lege-can-pay-735-million-for-border.html)
McCraw: Terrorist threat at Texas border a myth (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2014/12/mccraw-terrorist-threat-at-texas-border.html)
Do border surges work? For incumbent pols but not really for the rest of us (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2014/07/do-border-surges-work-for-incumbent.html)
Fiscal impact of border security: Spend less on roads (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2014/07/fiscal-impact-of-border-security-spend.html)
Border boondoggle: Lack of goal, success metrics don't prevent squandering tax dollars (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2014/07/border-boondoggle-lack-of-goal-success.html)
Ramped up enforcement along Texas border failed to raise drug prices (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2014/04/ramped-up-enforcement-along-texas.html)
DPS won't use roadblocks without legislative approval (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2013/12/texas-dps-wont-use-roadblocks-sans.html)
DPS outsourced key border security tasks to shadowy private contractor (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2012/03/dps-outsourced-key-border-security.html)
(http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2012/11/is-texas-border-crime-overwhelming-or.html)
Is Texas border crime 'overwhelming' or at historic lows? (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2012/11/is-texas-border-crime-overwhelming-or.html)
DPS, border violence, and the boy who cried 'wolf' (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2011/11/dps-border-violence-and-boy-who-cried.html)

[Winehole23]

Texas Gov. Greg Abbott has suggested hiring and sending 500 additional state troopers to the border. But Col. Steve McCraw of the Department of Public Safety told the House Committee on Emerging Law Enforcement Issues yesterday that it would take four years - two biennia - to deploy 500 troopers to the border. And before that happens, the agency presently has 243 vacant positions it needs to fill in addition to the 500. That number is expected to drop to 187 after the next cadet class graduates in June.

[Winehole23]

Who is surprised to learn that the border "surge" by the Texas Department of Public Safety "compromised the Department of Public Safety’s ability to combat crimes elsewhere"? Or so the agency told the governor and state leaders in a secret assessment which was leaked to the Houston Chronicle (http://tablet.olivesoftware.com/Olive/Tablet/HoustonChronicle/SharedArticle.aspx?href=HHC%2F2015%2F02%2F25&id=Ar01903).


According to the paper, "While the report gave more detail than has been publicly released about the claim often made by [Lt. Gov. Dan] Patrick and other state leaders that the deployment has reduced crime, it focused on illegal crossings and cartel activity in the operation zone, providing less detail about local crimes and leaving open the possibility that criminals have simply shifted their efforts elsewhere." The story noted dryly that "some experts have attributed [the reduction in illegal crossings] to other factors," which is a pretty dramatic understatement. The border was already the safest region in the state before DPS began any "surge" operations, which is probably why the agency didn't even attempt to claim it reduced crime in the area - any such claim would inevitably run afoul of contradictory Uniform Crime Report data in the medium to long term. We've been around (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2010/03/perry-bizarrely-still-claiming-60-drop.html) this block many times (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2006/10/governor-claimed-phony-drop-in-border.html).


The Texas Senate has proposed spending an astonishing $815 million over the next biennium on border security above and beyond regular DPS patrols in the area. That's an insanely large amount of money being funneled down a black hole. Grits has suggested the state could abolish the Driver Responsibility surcharge (http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2015/02/if-lege-can-pay-735-million-for-border.html) with a portion of that money and still spend well more than double what was budgeted last biennium on border security.


There's no public safety justification for spending that much at the border. Thumbing the state's collective nose at a president who will never again run for re-election just isn't worth that much scratch, and at root that's the only reason this is happening.http://gritsforbreakfast.blogspot.com/2015/02/dps-border-surge-compromised-crime.html

[boutons_deux]

Boner caves, House will vote on DHS funding, WITHOUT the "screw Obama" section.

[hater]

Revolucion! take what's ours :lol

[boutons_deux]

House Releases Hostage, Approves Funding For DHS Without Immigration Measures

The grudge match between Republicans and Democrats over the president's immigration policies and funding the Department of Homeland Security ended Tuesday -- with a win for Democrats.

House Republicans approved $39.7 billion in funding for DHS without any measures to block President Barack Obama's executive actions on immigration (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/11/20/obama-immigration-plan_n_6178774.html), which could allow as many as 5 million undocumented immigrants to remain in the country and work for three years.

The vote was 257 to 167, with most Republicans voting against the bill.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/03/03/house-funds-dhs_n_6793672.html?ir=Politics&utm_campaign=030315&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alert-politics&utm_content=FullStory

all y'alls tea baggers, Kockenstein monsters, Confederates, seccessionists, racists, white supremacists, right-wing anarchists, etc got KNOCKED THE FUCK OUT! :lol

[boutons_deux]

The Fate Of Nearly 5 Million Immigrants Rests With One Of The Most Conservative Courts In America (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/03/13/3633377/fate-nearly-5-million-immigrants-rests-one-conservative-courts-america/)

After waiting fruitlessly for a Republican judge to give them an answer one way or another on a request to stay one of his previous decisions, the Justice Department asked the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit to bypass that judge and issue the stay themselves (https://immigrationreports.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/03-12-2015-stay-mx-5th-cir.pdf). The Fifth Circuit, however, is one of the most conservative federal appeals courts in the country (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/07/15/2297791/seven-things-you-should-know-about-the-court-that-will-decide-if-texas-abortion-ban-is-constitutional/). So the Justice Department may have simply traded one set of problems for another.

Last month, Judge Andrew Hanen, a Republican with a history of hostility (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/01/14/3611263/lawsuit-challenging-obamas-immigration-policy-will-be-heard-by-worst-possible-judge-for-immigrants/) towards the Obama administration’s immigration policies, issued an order single-handedly halting changes President Obama announced last November that would allow approximately 4.9 million undocumented immigrants to temporarily live openly in the United States (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/02/17/3623484/breaking-republican-judge-halts-key-prong-president-obamas-new-immigration-policy/). Since then, Hanen has delayed ruling on a Justice Department motion asking him to stay (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/03/10/3631769/republican-judge-deploys-extraordinary-new-method-politicizing-federal-judiciary/) this decision, delays that make it difficult for DOJ to seek a stay from a higher court.

On Thursday, the Justice Department filed a motion asking the United States Courts of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit to bypass Hanen and grant such a stay anyway (https://immigrationreports.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/03-12-2015-stay-mx-5th-cir.pdf). Such motions seeking to bypass a federal trial judge are not usually granted, although judges also typically do not sit on stay requests in the way Hanen has delayed deciding DOJ’s request.

If DOJ has not enjoyed the dismissive treatment they’ve experienced in Judge Hanen’s courtroom, however, they may find that the Fifth Circuit is no more hospitable.

Ten of the Fifth Circuit’s judges are Republican appointees (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Fifth_Circu it), while only five were appointed by Democratic presidents.

A panel of the Fifth Circuit once suggested that undocumented immigrants are not entitled to the Fourth Amendment’s protections against unlawful searches and seizures (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/06/15/245270/fifth-hates-on-fourth/).

Five of its judges once voted to allow a man to be executed despite the fact that his lawyer slept through much of his trial (https://scholar.google.com/scholar_case?case=12767280366707197845&hl=en&as_sdt=2&as_vis=1&oi=scholarr).

The court once ordered a high school cheerleader to pay sanctions after she sued the school district that told her to cheer for her alleged rapist (http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Texas-cheerleader-suing-didn-t-root-for-attacker-3167336.php#page-1).

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/03/13/3633377/fate-nearly-5-million-immigrants-rests-one-conservative-courts-america/

dubya gave the 5th the judicial, anti-law garbage of Priscilla Owen

So it sure looks like Repug judges will accomplish what Repug politicians couldn't (but of course it was Repug politicians who packed the US Federal courts with right-wing hacks)

[m>s]

Fuck yeah! Everyone give a round of applause for rule of law!

[Winehole23]

you'll not be singing the same tune when he gets slapped down on appeal.

face it, m>s you don't believe in the rule of law, except when you like the outcome.

[m>s]

I believe in the Nuremberg laws

[boutons_deux]

The Fate Of Over 4 Million People Could Rest With Justice Scalia

Under the Court’s rules, such a request for an extension ordinarily “may be acted on by the Clerk in the first instance.” After the clerk rules on whether to grant the extension, “any party aggrieved by the Clerk’s action may request that the application be submitted to a Justice or to the Court.”

So here’s where things get interesting. If the clerk decides to grant the extension, DOJ can ask that the full Court reconsider that decision. That, at least, leaves the timing of this case up to the five justices most likely to be sympathetic to their position. If the clerk denies the extension, however, then Texas can ask a single justice to reconsider that decision. And the Circuit Justice for the Fifth Circuit (http://www.supremecourt.gov/about/circuitAssignments.aspx) — the justice who ordinarily hears similar procedural motions that arise out of the Fifth Circuit — is Justice Scalia.

Should this case be decided on the merits, the Justice Department has good reason to be optimistic that they will prevail. Shortly after Obama announced the DACA program in 2012, the Court handed down an opinion emphasizing the executive branch’s “broad discretion” (http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/02/17/3623484/breaking-republican-judge-halts-key-prong-president-obamas-new-immigration-policy/) in immigration matters. “Discretion in the enforcement of immigration law embraces immediate human concerns,” the Court explained. “Unauthorized workers trying to support their families, for example, likely pose less danger than alien smugglers or aliens who commit a serious crime.”

This opinion was authored by Justice Anthony Kennedy and joined by Chief Justice John Roberts, both of whom are Republicans.

One justice that did not join this opinion, however, was Scalia. Scalia, moreover, included a dig at the DACA program in his dissent (http://www2.bloomberglaw.com/public/desktop/document/Arizona_v_United_States_No_11182_2012_BL_157302_US _June_25_2012_C#fnref_fn400).

Thus, if he has the power to decide Texas’s likely request for delay, he will have the power to leave his preferred policy outcome in place for at least another year.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/11/23/3724905/the-fate-of-over-4-million-people-could-rest-with-justice-scalia/

[boutons_deux]

Illegal immigration continues to decline, reaches 13-year low

At the most recent Republican presidential debate, Donald Trump recited familiar concerns about immigration, which has helped propel him to the front of the pack. “We have no borders…. Illegal immigration is beyond belief,” the GOP frontrunner said (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/01/14/6th-republican-debate-transcript-annotated-who-said-what-and-what-it-meant/). He added,

“I’m tired of seeing what’s going on, between the border where the people flow over; people come in; they live; they shoot.”

That’s probably a decent summary of how many Republican voters see the problem of illegal immigration. Imagine how surprised they’d be if they considered the real-world evidence. The L.A. Times reported (http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-immigrant-decline-20160120-story.html) overnight:

The number of immigrants living in the U.S. illegally is at its lowest in more than a decade and, for the first time in years, has probably dropped below 11 million.A new study by the Center for Migration Studies estimates that 10.9 million immigrants are living in the country without authorization. That is the lowest level since 2003 and the first time the number has dipped below 11 million since 2004.


if facts had a powerful effect on our political debates, especially during the presidential campaign, but

Republican voters believe

President Obama has increased the deficit,

given Iran permission to build a nuclear weapon,

abandoned border security,

proposed widespread gun confiscation, and

imposed socialized medicine on the country –

none of which is even remotely true.

It’s hard to be optimistic about the introduction of new facts shaping the debate in any meaningful way when one of the major parties and its national candidates don’t even believe in climate change (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/new-evidence-creates-new-challenges-climate-deniers).

Illegal immigration has declined in the United States in every year of the Obama era. How many GOP candidates would acknowledge such a detail? How loud would the booing be if they did?

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/illegal-immigration-continues-decline-reaches-13-year-low?cid=sm_fb_maddow (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/illegal-immigration-continues-decline-reaches-13-year-low?cid=sm_fb_maddow)

[boutons_deux]

 Here’s Why the US Is Stepping Up the Deportation of Central Americans

They come because their countries have been destroyed by US policy.

Every single “push” factor driving the refugee crisis is or has been created by Washington and Wall Street: The transnational gangs and drug cartels that rule large swaths of Central America and Mexico are direct blowback from the Cold War (in the case of Central America) and the War on Drugs (Mexico).

The US’s relentless promotion of trade and financial liberalization and its push for biofuels and mining has destroyed regional agricultural markets and driven down wages, leading to rural dislocation.

The disaster, as I and many others (see especially Laura Carlsen at CIP Americas (http://www.cipamericas.org/)) have described (http://www.thenation.com/article/building-perfect-machine-perpetual-war-mexico-colombia-security-corridor-advances/), in Central America and Mexico can be traced back to Bill Clinton’s three signature Latin American initiatives:

escalation of the drug war (Plan Colombia);

economic liberalization (NAFTA, the North American Free Trade Agreement, which paved the way for similar treaties with Central America and Colombia and will culminate in the Obama-backed Trans Pacific Partnership); and the

militarization (https://preaprez.wordpress.com/2014/06/20/secret-rahm-memo-to-clinton-step-up-attack-on-immigrants-be-nixon-on-crime/) of the Mexican-US border.

The Obama administration inherited the disaster, but continues the policies that perpetuate it (see the 2009 coup in Honduras).

In El Salvador, it was none other than Ambassador Aponte –today lecturing Salvadorans about the pedagogic utility of deportations – who three years ago, in 2012, threatened (http://cispes.org/blog/us-ambassador-ransoms-aid-for-passage-of-public-private-partnerships-law) to withhold critical development aid unless El Salvador passed a major privatization law (http://www.thenation.com/article/precarious-victory-el-salvador/).

(Hilary Goodfriend, a researcher based in El Salvador who works with the ever vital Committee in Solidarity with the People of El Salvador, discusses the law here).

It is a job requirement of US envoys to El Salvador to be skilled in the art of the threat (https://books.google.com/books?id=x9UiLmqwN4AC&pg=PA211&lpg=PA211&dq=bush+ambassador+to+El+Salvador+threatens+status +immigration&source=bl&ots=nbleLv6VU_&sig=G8OJGNPbWJO541sXd93PsoQEGdM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjeqcSH9brKAhWH8j4KHZrIAssQ6AEIKDAC#v=on epage&q=bush%20ambassador%20to%20El%20Salvador%20threate ns%20status%20immigration&f=false).

And Aponte, named ambassador in 2010, is a pro. In particular, she’s been tasked with making sure the former insurgent FMLN, which first won the presidency in 2009 and was reelected in 2014, reconciles itself to neoliberal reality.

She’s menaced (http://www.bilaterals.org/?the-carrot-the-stick-and-the-seeds&lang=fr) the government about the need to buy corporate manufactured GMO seeds, insisting that the FMLN’s seed-cooperative program violates the terms of the Central American Free Trade Agreement (Martha Pskowksi writes (http://www.bilaterals.org/?the-carrot-the-stick-and-the-seeds&lang=fr):

“In 2011, the first FMLN administration began buying 88,000 quintales of corn seeds (http://www.ipsnoticias.net/2014/07/campesinos-salvadorenos-se-enfrentan-a-eeuu-por-las-semillas/)) annually from eighteen Salvadoran cooperatives to distribute to 400,000 campesinos as part of the Family Agriculture Plan”).

Last year, Aponte warned (http://diario1.com/politica/2015/04/aponte-dice-que-apoyo-de-fmln-a-venezuela-hace-dificil-conseguir-fondos-para-el-pais/) the FMLN that US aid would be withheld if it continued to publicly support Venezuela.

In Salvador, at least, Aponte is the face of the vicious circle: economic liberalization; militarization; deportation.

http://www.thenation.com/article/heres-why-the-us-is-stepping-up-the-deportation-of-central-americans/

"Why Do They Hate Us?"

[boutons_deux]

even old white people think immigrants are OK, part of the community now. It was corporate takeovers, buy outs, mechanization and their children leaving rural areas for the big city, aka urbanization that extends backs 100+ years. The immigrants took company jobs the Anglos wouldn't do. And crime in unchanged, or down.

iow, the Repugs are LYING.

In Iowa farm town, immigration debate yields surprising views


http://www.trbimg.com/img-56a223b6/turbine/la-na-iowa-trump-latinos-20160122-003/750/750x422

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-iowa-trump-latinos-20160122-story.html

[Bender]

It's funny how illegal immigrants say they want to pay taxes, of course they do they usually get tax refunds

yes, but it's technically not a "refund" when they had $800 in withholding, and they get back $4,000 due to EIC and other welfare BS. Call it what it is, a handout.

[boutons_deux]

yes, but it's technically not a "refund" when they had $800 in withholding, and they get back $4,000 due to EIC and other welfare BS. Call it what it is, a handout.

BigFinance gets $10Bs in tax breaks. Big banks are required to deposit with the Fed, which pays a guaranteed 6%. etc, etc, etc. tax avoidance, criminal tax evasion are rampant.