View Full Version : I am in no way a Parker hater but
Horse
02-24-2015, 09:14 AM
If he's not right why not shut him down until he is, Cojo played as well as anyone early in the season.
hater
02-24-2015, 09:19 AM
already tried. Now Spurs are fighting for a playoff spot.
If you haven't been watching, Patty is playing a lot worse than Parker and Cojo is just a sufficient backup PG.
all our money is on Parker getting it right and there is no other alternative this season.
If he's injured he needs to be shut down. If fitness is his main problem, he needs minutes to get in game shape. He's not going to do that by sitting on the bench.
Horse
02-24-2015, 10:24 AM
At this point it's got to be more than being out of shape and CoJo will get better with time just like he did earlier in the season.
RD2191
02-24-2015, 10:27 AM
PG isn't essential to this team success, imo. Parker played like shit last year and the Spurs still won it all. Cojo needs to start and be willing to pass a little more. His youth, athleticism, and defense already make him a much better PG than TP right now.
Horse
02-24-2015, 01:19 PM
PG isn't essential to this team success, imo. Parker played like shit last year and the Spurs still won it all. Cojo needs to start and be willing to pass a little more. His youth, athleticism, and defense already make him a much better PG than TP right now.
Yup get that ball moving and that pressure D.
Parker has been an all-time finisher in the paint over his career, but he can't seem to get to the rim, and when he does, he can't finish. He's basically become a mid range shooter and a corner three shooter, but unfortunately, because he can't get past his defenders and to the rim, he is taking contested mid-range shots that teams used to leave him open to shoot and he isn't knocking those shots down. Pop says its his hamstring. Whatever it is, it was noticeable against Utah. He couldn't get in the paint.
in2deep
02-24-2015, 01:26 PM
last night's game was a bit of a misleading game
Gobert went apeshit on our players and destroyed their confidence last night. That doesn't usually happens. ALL our players were afraid to make a layup due to Gobert
If you haven't been watching, Patty is playing a lot worse than Parker and Cojo is just a sufficient backup PG.
Flat out lie. Patty isn't hitting his shots at the rate he was last season but he's still not the net negative Rique is, mainly bc he's not a turnstyle on defense. Enrique is addition by subtraction at this point--doesn't even matter who you plug in to take his place.
Most worrying, he's been worse than a replacement-level player, according to basketball-reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html). When Parker's been off the floor, the Spurs (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/san-antonio-spurs)have an Offensive Rating of 105.4 and a Defensive Rating of 96.3, numbers that would trail only the Warriors (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/golden-state-warriors). With Parker on the floor however, the Spurs are essentially the Sacramento Kings (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/sacramento-kings).
PG isn't essential to this team success, imo. Parker played like shit last year and the Spurs still won it all. Cojo needs to start and be willing to pass a little more. His youth, athleticism, and defense already make him a much better PG than TP right now.
I think this is a good observation in the main. The team DID win it all last year with everyone on the team playing and passing and making shots. The validity of this observation, however, Rob, belies all the gazillion posts saying that the only thing wrong with the team this year is Parker. Folks can't have it both ways logically...either he is critical to the success of the team (as per Hater and Popovich) or he really doesn't matter because he hasn't played well in years and the team has won without him.
I agree that Parker is in the midst of the worst season of his career. He looks horrid. People in here end up defending him just because it is impossible for one guy - ANY guy - to be so totally responsible for everything that is wrong with this team.
Parker is not responsible for everyone on the team shooting poorly at the three point line...and they are doing that when he is on the court and off the court.
Parker is not responsible for the team shooting so poorly at the free throw line. He has nothing to do with that.
Parker is responsible for HIS turnovers (which are too many) but he is not responsible for Kawhi's turnovers or Manu's turnovers or Tim's turnovers or Splitter's, etc. etc. etc.
I honestly would also like to see Cojo start at pg, at least for a while. I don't know if it will work or not because when he starts he is much less consistent in his aggressiveness on offense, and if he is not aggressive on offense, we are playing 4 on 5 down there and we get creamed. But I think it is worth a shot. Have no idea why Pop won't do it. Cojo has limited talent, but so Parker at this point. So does everybody else at this point.
Right now this team looks like shit because ALL of our players (except Tim) are playing like shit. And it is on ALL of them to get their heads out of their respective asses.
Do you remember when we lost in the WCF in 2012 and Pop said that he thought that the team "had gotten further than they should have", clearly implying that they played above themselves to get to the WCF?
I think that Pop thinks that way about this team this year, and I think they are living down to his expectations.
Cry Havoc
02-24-2015, 02:10 PM
I think this is a good observation in the main. The team DID win it all last year with everyone on the team playing and passing and making shots. The validity of this observation, however, Rob, belies all the gazillion posts saying that the only thing wrong with the team this year is Parker. Folks can't have it both ways logically...either he is critical to the success of the team (as per Hater and Popovich) or he really doesn't matter because he hasn't played well in years and the team has won without him.
I agree that Parker is in the midst of the worst season of his career. He looks horrid. People in here end up defending him just because it is impossible for one guy - ANY guy - to be so totally responsible for everything that is wrong with this team.
Parker is not responsible for everyone on the team shooting poorly at the three point line...and they are doing that when he is on the court and off the court.
Parker is not responsible for the team shooting so poorly at the free throw line. He has nothing to do with that.
Parker is responsible for HIS turnovers (which are too many) but he is not responsible for Kawhi's turnovers or Manu's turnovers or Tim's turnovers or Splitter's, etc. etc. etc.
I honestly would also like to see Cojo start at pg, at least for a while. I don't know if it will work or not because when he starts he is much less consistent in his aggressiveness on offense, and if he is not aggressive on offense, we are playing 4 on 5 down there and we get creamed. But I think it is worth a shot. Have no idea why Pop won't do it. Cojo has limited talent, but so Parker at this point. So does everybody else at this point.
Right now this team looks like shit because ALL of our players (except Tim) are playing like shit. And it is on ALL of them to get their heads out of their respective asses.
Do you remember when we lost in the WCF in 2012 and Pop said that he thought that the team "had gotten further than they should have", clearly implying that they played above themselves to get to the WCF?
I think that Pop thinks that way about this team this year, and I think they are living down to his expectations.
Lowering the boom. Don't worry dude, if the Spurs do well in the post-season they'll look like idiots, and if they fall off and don't make any noise, these fans won't be browsing or commenting on Spurstalk anyway. It's a win-win for real fans.
I agree that Parker is in the midst of the worst season of his career. He looks horrid. People in here end up defending him just because it is impossible for one guy - ANY guy - to be so totally responsible for everything that is wrong with this team.
He has a negative net rating (-2.6 (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612759/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1), in fact), the worst defensive rating for any rotation player besides Marco Belinelli (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/24213/marco-belinelli), a below-average PER of 14.9 (worse than Cory Joseph's (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/150317/cory-joseph)). Most worrying, he's been worse than a replacement-level player, according to basketball-reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html). When Parker's been off the floor, the Spurs (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/san-antonio-spurs)have an Offensive Rating of 105.4 and a Defensive Rating of 96.3, numbers that would trail only the Warriors (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/golden-state-warriors). With Parker on the floor however, the Spurs are essentially the Sacramento Kings (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/sacramento-kings).
TP ranks 78 out of 79 eligible PGs in Wins Above Replacement at -2.55 and 77 out of 79 in Real Plus Minus numbers at -5.95. CoJo ranks 19th in both categories while Mills ranks 30 and 43rd respectively. To give you a better perspective on how bad this is, Jameer Nelson is ranked ahead of TP in these categories with similar minutes played.
http://i61.tinypic.com/27ymvbp.png
http://sports.cbsimg.net/u/photos/basketball/nba/img24251175.jpg
He has a negative net rating (-2.6 (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612759/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1), in fact), the worst defensive rating for any rotation player besides Marco Belinelli (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/24213/marco-belinelli), a below-average PER of 14.9 (worse than Cory Joseph's (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/150317/cory-joseph)). Most worrying, he's been worse than a replacement-level player, according to basketball-reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html). When Parker's been off the floor, the Spurs (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/san-antonio-spurs)have an Offensive Rating of 105.4 and a Defensive Rating of 96.3, numbers that would trail only the Warriors (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/golden-state-warriors). With Parker on the floor however, the Spurs are essentially the Sacramento Kings (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/sacramento-kings).
TP ranks 78 out of 79 eligible PGs in Wins Above Replacement at -2.55 and 77 out of 79 in Real Plus Minus numbers at -5.95. CoJo ranks 19th in both categories while Mills ranks 30 and 43rd respectively. To give you a better perspective on how bad this is, Jameer Nelson is ranked ahead of TP in these categories with similar minutes played.
http://i61.tinypic.com/27ymvbp.png
http://sports.cbsimg.net/u/photos/basketball/nba/img24251175.jpg
Don't be fooled by advance stats, which don't work well in basketball like they do in other sports. If you gave Mills Parker's minutes, you'd see some terrible defense as Mills is undersized and is only good at drawing charges. You'd also see a drop in scoring as the guy is in a horrid shooting slump. I'd be interested in seeing CJ play more minutes, except that while he can defend pretty good, he can't shoot, create, or dribble on par with Parker. So ultimately, we need to play an injured Parker (Pop says his hamstring is still a problem) to ensure the Spurs make the playoffs. It's a no win situation right now. Perhaps if Patty Mills was shooting better, you might have more luck with the bench Parker argument, but if Patty can't get to double figures, he's not worth playing.
itzsoweezee
02-24-2015, 03:24 PM
I think this is a good observation in the main. The team DID win it all last year with everyone on the team playing and passing and making shots. The validity of this observation, however, Rob, belies all the gazillion posts saying that the only thing wrong with the team this year is Parker. Folks can't have it both ways logically...either he is critical to the success of the team (as per Hater and Popovich) or he really doesn't matter because he hasn't played well in years and the team has won without him.
I agree that Parker is in the midst of the worst season of his career. He looks horrid. People in here end up defending him just because it is impossible for one guy - ANY guy - to be so totally responsible for everything that is wrong with this team.
Parker is not responsible for everyone on the team shooting poorly at the three point line...and they are doing that when he is on the court and off the court.
Parker is not responsible for the team shooting so poorly at the free throw line. He has nothing to do with that.
Parker is responsible for HIS turnovers (which are too many) but he is not responsible for Kawhi's turnovers or Manu's turnovers or Tim's turnovers or Splitter's, etc. etc. etc.
I honestly would also like to see Cojo start at pg, at least for a while. I don't know if it will work or not because when he starts he is much less consistent in his aggressiveness on offense, and if he is not aggressive on offense, we are playing 4 on 5 down there and we get creamed. But I think it is worth a shot. Have no idea why Pop won't do it. Cojo has limited talent, but so Parker at this point. So does everybody else at this point.
Right now this team looks like shit because ALL of our players (except Tim) are playing like shit. And it is on ALL of them to get their heads out of their respective asses.
Do you remember when we lost in the WCF in 2012 and Pop said that he thought that the team "had gotten further than they should have", clearly implying that they played above themselves to get to the WCF?
I think that Pop thinks that way about this team this year, and I think they are living down to his expectations.
This is a perfect example of an out of touch poster that doesn't understand statistics or how to think analytically.
Godbama
02-24-2015, 03:35 PM
Honestly, I'd be able to accept the current state of the Spurs with a sad but understanding smile (nothing lasts forever, and they've brought us so many rings and so much joy) if we hadn't given Tony Parker that goddamn contract. :bang
SupremeGuy
02-24-2015, 04:09 PM
Flat out lie. Patty isn't hitting his shots at the rate he was last season but he's still not the net negative Rique is, mainly bc he's not a turnstyle on defense. Enrique is addition by subtraction at this point--doesn't even matter who you plug in to take his place.
Most worrying, he's been worse than a replacement-level player, according to basketball-reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html). When Parker's been off the floor, the Spurs (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/san-antonio-spurs)have an Offensive Rating of 105.4 and a Defensive Rating of 96.3, numbers that would trail only the Warriors (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/golden-state-warriors). With Parker on the floor however, the Spurs are essentially the Sacramento Kings (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/sacramento-kings).Holy shit... :wow
Motherfucking truth nukes.
This is a perfect example of an out of touch poster that doesn't understand statistics or how to think analytically.
Undoubtedly explains how I taught parametric and non-parametric statistics at the University level and have a Ph.D.
Skull-1
02-24-2015, 06:09 PM
PG isn't essential to this team success, imo. Parker played like shit last year and the Spurs still won it all. Cojo needs to start and be willing to pass a little more. His youth, athleticism, and defense already make him a much better PG than TP right now.
Passing. Passing. Passing.
FireMicoHalili
02-24-2015, 07:01 PM
PG isn't essential to this team success, imo. Parker played like shit last year and the Spurs still won it all. Cojo needs to start and be willing to pass a little more. His youth, athleticism, and defense already make him a much better PG than TP right now.
How badly did Parker play last year?
Malik Hairston
02-24-2015, 07:09 PM
How badly did Parker play last year?
Last year's regular season:
http://i59.tinypic.com/154ktbt.png
Last year's playoffs:
http://i62.tinypic.com/vsni52.jpg
FireMicoHalili
02-24-2015, 07:29 PM
Welp. Numbers don't lie. Should have made a move or two in the offseason.
he led the team in PPG though :cry
FireMicoHalili
02-24-2015, 07:33 PM
This team deserves to get whooped for staying complacent with regard to player personnel.
Johnny RIngo
02-24-2015, 07:40 PM
Welp. Numbers don't lie. Should have made a move or two in the offseason.
That's what happens when you ignore analytics and follow Barkley's approach. Simple-minded observers will champion points per game while ignoring overall impact. Leads to stupid decisions and bad contracts(like Tony's). Expected better from Pop and the Spurs.
barbacoataco
02-24-2015, 07:40 PM
Why would a team that won a championship in dominant style mix up their personnel? If they all got old, that happens. I think the Spurs are coasting since the West is so deep seeding is almost irrelevant.
itzsoweezee
02-24-2015, 07:41 PM
Tony Parker ranked 483 out of 490 players in ESPN's Real Plus Minus at minus 5.58. This is mind-boggling...
Johnny RIngo
02-24-2015, 07:45 PM
Tony Parker ranked 483 out of 490 players in ESPN's Real Plus Minus at minus 5.58. This is mind-boggling...
:lol still got three more years of this shit in store for us. Going to be a bumpy ride for Spurs fans
barbacoataco
02-24-2015, 08:06 PM
Parker looks off and every time my wife sees him on TV she says he looks bad and his complection looks wrong. Could just be that he's gained weight.
therealtruth
02-24-2015, 08:52 PM
Just give the whole team a rest. How about a couple of weeks. Can rotate the players. Use D-League callups. The problem is they've playing too much due to all the postseason play.
Sean Cagney
02-24-2015, 08:57 PM
Why would a team that won a championship in dominant style mix up their personnel? If they all got old, that happens. I think the Spurs are coasting since the West is so deep seeding is almost irrelevant.
I don't think they are coasting at all honestly but we will see. I think they just got older and some are tired after some deep runs, it happens. Coasting though is a? Thats wishful thinking. Seeding to me is relevant as in if there is a game 7 it's huge at home, otherwise they might steal a series or two but the whole playoffs on the road is basically unheard of sides the Rockets run in 95 and Knicks in 99 and maybe one or two examples, that is how rare it is (Houston the lowest seed at 6 to win it all, got healthy at the right time).
Just give the whole team a rest. How about a couple of weeks. Can rotate the players. Use D-League callups. The problem is they've playing too much due to all the postseason play.
I agree, long runs for years now catch up.
Parker looks off and every time my wife sees him on TV she says he looks bad and his complection looks wrong. Could just be that he's gained weight.
His wife did just have a baby. His first. Maybe he's staying up late with the baby and snacking.
TXstbobcat
02-24-2015, 10:41 PM
His wife did just have a baby. His first. Maybe he's staying up late with the baby and snacking.
With all his millions I would guess he has a live in nanny to handle the kid in the middle of the night.
tim_duncan_fan
02-24-2015, 10:59 PM
William is fat and slow. Without his speed he's useless.
He can't beat any of today's top young points off the dribble and can't guard any of them either.
Horse
02-25-2015, 01:43 PM
Tony will have to adapt his game as other greats have done when they aged. Right now though Corey can hit shots and get to the basket.
Hemotivo
02-25-2015, 05:52 PM
He needs minutes to get in game shape. He's not going to do that by sitting on the bench.
This
Tony needs to play a lot
Austin_Toros
02-25-2015, 06:33 PM
I think this is a good observation in the main. The team DID win it all last year with everyone on the team playing and passing and making shots. The validity of this observation, however, Rob, belies all the gazillion posts saying that the only thing wrong with the team this year is Parker. Folks can't have it both ways logically...either he is critical to the success of the team (as per Hater and Popovich) or he really doesn't matter because he hasn't played well in years and the team has won without him.
I agree that Parker is in the midst of the worst season of his career. He looks horrid. People in here end up defending him just because it is impossible for one guy - ANY guy - to be so totally responsible for everything that is wrong with this team.
Parker is not responsible for everyone on the team shooting poorly at the three point line...and they are doing that when he is on the court and off the court.
Parker is not responsible for the team shooting so poorly at the free throw line. He has nothing to do with that.
Parker is responsible for HIS turnovers (which are too many) but he is not responsible for Kawhi's turnovers or Manu's turnovers or Tim's turnovers or Splitter's, etc. etc. etc.
I honestly would also like to see Cojo start at pg, at least for a while. I don't know if it will work or not because when he starts he is much less consistent in his aggressiveness on offense, and if he is not aggressive on offense, we are playing 4 on 5 down there and we get creamed. But I think it is worth a shot. Have no idea why Pop won't do it. Cojo has limited talent, but so Parker at this point. So does everybody else at this point.
Right now this team looks like shit because ALL of our players (except Tim) are playing like shit. And it is on ALL of them to get their heads out of their respective asses.
Do you remember when we lost in the WCF in 2012 and Pop said that he thought that the team "had gotten further than they should have", clearly implying that they played above themselves to get to the WCF? I think that Pop thinks that way about this team this year, and I think they are living down to his expectations.
This is a perfect example of an out of touch poster that doesn't understand statistics or how to think analytically.
Diego20
02-25-2015, 06:35 PM
This
Tony needs to play a lot
Seems like someone wants to lose..
lefty
02-25-2015, 06:35 PM
He has a negative net rating (-2.6 (http://stats.nba.com/team/#!/1610612759/players/advanced/?sort=NET_RATING&dir=1), in fact), the worst defensive rating for any rotation player besides Marco Belinelli (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/24213/marco-belinelli), a below-average PER of 14.9 (worse than Cory Joseph's (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/players/150317/cory-joseph)). Most worrying, he's been worse than a replacement-level player, according to basketball-reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/p/parketo01.html). When Parker's been off the floor, the Spurs (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/san-antonio-spurs)have an Offensive Rating of 105.4 and a Defensive Rating of 96.3, numbers that would trail only the Warriors (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/golden-state-warriors). With Parker on the floor however, the Spurs are essentially the Sacramento Kings (http://www.sbnation.com/nba/teams/sacramento-kings).
TP ranks 78 out of 79 eligible PGs in Wins Above Replacement at -2.55 and 77 out of 79 in Real Plus Minus numbers at -5.95. CoJo ranks 19th in both categories while Mills ranks 30 and 43rd respectively. To give you a better perspective on how bad this is, Jameer Nelson is ranked ahead of TP in these categories with similar minutes played.
http://i61.tinypic.com/27ymvbp.png
http://sports.cbsimg.net/u/photos/basketball/nba/img24251175.jpg
Stats don't lie
:tu
Mikeanaro
02-25-2015, 07:13 PM
Just fuck Rique away inside outside, JUST FUCK RIQUE AWAY UPSIDE DOWN!.
Rob123
02-25-2015, 07:38 PM
I think this is a good observation in the main. The team DID win it all last year with everyone on the team playing and passing and making shots. The validity of this observation, however, Rob, belies all the gazillion posts saying that the only thing wrong with the team this year is Parker. Folks can't have it both ways logically...either he is critical to the success of the team (as per Hater and Popovich) or he really doesn't matter because he hasn't played well in years and the team has won without him.
I agree that Parker is in the midst of the worst season of his career. He looks horrid. People in here end up defending him just because it is impossible for one guy - ANY guy - to be so totally responsible for everything that is wrong with this team.
Parker is not responsible for everyone on the team shooting poorly at the three point line...and they are doing that when he is on the court and off the court.
Parker is not responsible for the team shooting so poorly at the free throw line. He has nothing to do with that.
Parker is responsible for HIS turnovers (which are too many) but he is not responsible for Kawhi's turnovers or Manu's turnovers or Tim's turnovers or Splitter's, etc. etc. etc.
I honestly would also like to see Cojo start at pg, at least for a while. I don't know if it will work or not because when he starts he is much less consistent in his aggressiveness on offense, and if he is not aggressive on offense, we are playing 4 on 5 down there and we get creamed. But I think it is worth a shot. Have no idea why Pop won't do it. Cojo has limited talent, but so Parker at this point. So does everybody else at this point.
Right now this team looks like shit because ALL of our players (except Tim) are playing like shit. And it is on ALL of them to get their heads out of their respective asses.
Do you remember when we lost in the WCF in 2012 and Pop said that he thought that the team "had gotten further than they should have", clearly implying that they played above themselves to get to the WCF?
I think that Pop thinks that way about this team this year, and I think they are living down to his expectations.
To be fair parkers inability to penetrate and dish the ball is leading to much poorer 3pt looks in general. It certainly doesnt explain all the three point struggles but a healthy parker gets dg and belly open threes at a good clip.
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