View Full Version : Kings: the real mvp so far
King Emmanuel
03-02-2015, 12:49 AM
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Arcadian
03-02-2015, 01:03 AM
I never thought I'd advocate for Westbrook as an MVP, but here we are. I really think he's a better player than Harden and Curry, he's been the best player in the league for the past month, and I'm really impressed with his carrying of a terrible team back into the playoff picture. That's what an MVP does.
Calispursfan11
03-02-2015, 01:57 AM
Splitter's vagina
Calispursfan11
03-02-2015, 02:04 AM
In all honesty though, this is a stoopid poll. Lebron's team is good but they couldn't beat the top 3 or 4 teams in the league in a 7 game series. GSW are exciting but nothing more than a regular season fluke/blip. OKC is too banged up to do anything. Yes, Russ is good but his team is an 8th seed and the MVP is usually better defined as the best player on the best team or one of the best teams, not some shallow Eastern bitch squad or some fake flukey regular season run and gunners like the GSW or some shallow, no bench 8th seed piece of shit team. And LOL Danny Green. This must be a joke poll.
James without a doubt. He won't get it due to the MJ rule of not getting it all the time. They'll give it to someone who scores a lot of points instead of someone who actually makes a difference in the outcome of the games.
If RW was an MVP, you're telling me two MVPs cannot beat a team with none, and not even a real all star? Is the rest of OKC that shitty?
If Harden is the MVP, is the rest of his team that shitty? Is he really saving their season?
James is the MVP, the Cavaliers wouldn't even be a playoff team without him, and Love wouldn't have come there without him either. If anyone else gets it, it's just a joke.
spurraider21
03-02-2015, 04:09 AM
if lebron and the cavs finish the season at this breakneck pace... he'll become the MVP frontrunner. as of right now, i'd say Harden-Curry-LeBron
Franklin
03-02-2015, 04:18 AM
toss-up between Curry and Lebron imho. The Warriors record improved so much from previous seasons you have to consider Curry a strong MVP candidate this season.
Jodelo
03-02-2015, 09:57 AM
Curry.
djohn2oo8
03-02-2015, 10:15 AM
James without a doubt. He won't get it due to the MJ rule of not getting it all the time. They'll give it to someone who scores a lot of points instead of someone who actually makes a difference in the outcome of the games.
If RW was an MVP, you're telling me two MVPs cannot beat a team with none, and not even a real all star? Is the rest of OKC that shitty?
If Harden is the MVP, is the rest of his team that shitty? Is he really saving their season?
James is the MVP, the Cavaliers wouldn't even be a playoff team without him, and Love wouldn't have come there without him either. If anyone else gets it, it's just a joke.
Cavs didn't improve until Mozgov got there. And yes, take Harden off Houston, with Dwight hurt they are in the lottery.
Clipper Nation
03-02-2015, 10:36 AM
LeBron is the real MVP.
Brazil
03-02-2015, 11:47 AM
Curry-Lebron
Harden
Westchimp - Davis
Cavs didn't improve until Mozgov got there. And yes, take Harden off Houston, with Dwight hurt they are in the lottery.
Oh horseshit. Timofey Mozgov did not transform the Cavs. Only a moron would think otherwise.
The problem with player haters is that they make stupid assessments based on nothing but bias. Lebron is far and away the most valuable player in the league today, both as an individual in the NBA and as a member of the Cavs.
It's odd that all these role guys who pop in get credited with saving the team, when not a fucking one of them did shit prior to James' arrival nor after his departure.
Team success ebbs and flows with James. He actually is the quintessential straw that stirs the drink.
djohn2oo8
03-02-2015, 12:55 PM
Oh horseshit. Timofey Mozgov did not transform the Cavs. Only a moron would think otherwise.
The problem with player haters is that they make stupid assessments based on nothing but bias. Lebron is far and away the most valuable player in the league today, both as an individual in the NBA and as a member of the Cavs.
It's odd that all these role guys who pop in get credited with saving the team, when not a fucking one of them did shit prior to James' arrival nor after his departure.
Team success ebbs and flows with James. He actually is the quintessential straw that stirs the drink.
I didn't say transform. I said improved. Which they did defensively and rebounding wise.
I didn't say transform. I said improved. Which they did defensively and rebounding wise.
Semantics. How did Timofey "improve" the team without transforming them? So all the Cavs needed last season was Timofey Mozgov? You said Cavs didn't improve until Mozgov came aboard. Seems like you're crediting Timofey with transforming the Cavs from an annual lottery team to a "favored to win the East" team.
djohn2oo8
03-02-2015, 01:06 PM
Semantics. How did Timofey "improve" the team without transforming them? So all the Cavs needed last season was Timofey Mozgov? You said Cavs didn't improve until Mozgov came aboard. Seems like you're crediting Timofey with transforming the Cavs from an annual lottery team to a "favored to win the East" team.
No. Of course LeBron made them MUCH better. They were terrible on defense, that's where Mozgov improved the team.
570023868196196353
Cavs didn't improve until Mozgov got there.
No. Of course LeBron made them MUCH better.
These two statements are conflicting.
djohn2oo8
03-02-2015, 01:18 PM
These two statements are conflicting.
This year, the Cavs were looking average, even below average on defense. They did not improve defensively as a team until Mozgov got there. Happy?
This year, the Cavs were looking average, even below average on defense. They did not improve defensively as a team until Mozgov got there. Happy?
Let's discuss your use of semantics:
Improve vs "made better".
Transformed vs "improved"
Cavs were a lottery team last year. In fact they got 1st overall pick. They've missed the playoffs every year since James left. James is back. They are now considered the favorites in the East.
Miami was a bottom tier playoff team, when they made the playoffs, until James arrived. They go on to make the Finals every year James is in Miami, all 4 of them. James leaves Miami... they are a lottery team this year.
Timofey Mozgov did not make any of that happen on any team he's ever been on in the NBA. He didn't make it happen in Cleveland. It's like saying Bill Cartwright made the Bulls better, they didn't improve until he got there.. as an argument against Jordan as MVP.
Kevin Love has never sniffed a playoff game.
I understand you're lobbying for your own guy, but don't be blatantly dishonest about it.
hater
03-02-2015, 01:30 PM
OKC cruised to a win without Dentbrook. This officially marks Dentbrook out of the MVP race
djohn2oo8
03-02-2015, 01:47 PM
Let's discuss your use of semantics:
Improve vs "made better".
Transformed vs "improved"
Cavs were a lottery team last year. In fact they got 1st overall pick. They've missed the playoffs every year since James left. James is back. They are now considered the favorites in the East.
Miami was a bottom tier playoff team, when they made the playoffs, until James arrived. They go on to make the Finals every year James is in Miami, all 4 of them. James leaves Miami... they are a lottery team this year.
Timofey Mozgov did not make any of that happen on any team he's ever been on in the NBA. He didn't make it happen in Cleveland. It's like saying Bill Cartwright made the Bulls better, they didn't improve until he got there.. as an argument against Jordan as MVP.
Kevin Love has never sniffed a playoff game.
I understand you're lobbying for your own guy, but don't be blatantly dishonest about it.
The Cavs were not the favorite before that trade. Their record was 19-17 at the time because they were terrible on defense. Since the trade they have gone 18-7 because of the addition of a rim protector, along with Shumpert and Smith.
djohn2oo8
03-02-2015, 01:50 PM
So far, Mozgov has lived up to expectations. He's averaging a career-high 1.6 blocks per game with the Cavs, and while their defensive efficiency ranking has only climbed to a still below-average 21st, it has improved from 105.5 points allowed/100 possessions before the trade to 104.3 points/100 possessions since. With Mozgov on the floor, the Cavs are 3.4 points/100 possessions better defensively than when he's sitting, and three of the four most frequently used lineups featuring Mozgov have a defensive rating of under 103, including the current starting lineup, which has an excellent 94.5 defensive rating. Mozgov's impact on the team's defensive performance is obvious, given the overall team defensive stats. But what is he doing, specifically, to cause this improvement? Is he actually protecting the rim in the way many expected him to?
To further put Mozgov's defensive impact in context, consider the drop-off when it comes to the Cavs' other bigs defending shots at the rim. Mozgov's 45.6 percent is a significant improvement over Thompson's 50.8 percent allowed on 6.9 shots per game, and his numbers put Love's (53.4 percent, 7.3 FGAs) and Varejao's (54.4 percent, 7 FGAs) to shame* Mozgov isn't just effective as a rim protector; he's vital if the Cavs don't want to be a sieve at the rim.
http://www.fearthesword.com/2015/2/16/8047269/with-timofey-mozgov-the-cavs-rim-is-protected
Horse
03-02-2015, 01:55 PM
Can't be hardon he gets half his points at the line on bogus calls where he either created the contact or feel down for no reason.
RsxPiimp
03-02-2015, 01:56 PM
Harden probably, but like I said before Curry will win this. GSW's record + Curry's golden boy image will get him plenty of 1st place votes with the media. It might even be a landslide.
hater
03-02-2015, 02:03 PM
Curry will win this. GSW's record + Curry's golden boy image will get him plenty of 1st place votes with the media. It might even be a landslide.
agree 100%
plus Curry really is a better player and having a better year.
The Cavs were not the favorite before that trade. Their record was 19-17 at the time because they were terrible on defense. Since the trade they have gone 18-7 because of the addition of a rim protector, along with Shumpert and Smith.
Cause vs correlation. It takes time for a new team to gel. Last year the Cavs finished 15th in points allowed. This year they are at 12th. However they were 22nd in points scored, this year they are at 9th. That's a much bigger swing than points allowed. Know who was in 12th last year? Miami.
So far, Mozgov has lived up to expectations. He's averaging a career-high 1.6 blocks per game with the Cavs, and while their defensive efficiency ranking has only climbed to a still below-average 21st, it has improved from 105.5 points allowed/100 possessions before the trade to 104.3 points/100 possessions since. With Mozgov on the floor, the Cavs are 3.4 points/100 possessions better defensively than when he's sitting, and three of the four most frequently used lineups featuring Mozgov have a defensive rating of under 103, including the current starting lineup, which has an excellent 94.5 defensive rating. Mozgov's impact on the team's defensive performance is obvious, given the overall team defensive stats. But what is he doing, specifically, to cause this improvement? Is he actually protecting the rim in the way many expected him to?
To further put Mozgov's defensive impact in context, consider the drop-off when it comes to the Cavs' other bigs defending shots at the rim. Mozgov's 45.6 percent is a significant improvement over Thompson's 50.8 percent allowed on 6.9 shots per game, and his numbers put Love's (53.4 percent, 7.3 FGAs) and Varejao's (54.4 percent, 7 FGAs) to shame* Mozgov isn't just effective as a rim protector; he's vital if the Cavs don't want to be a sieve at the rim.
http://www.fearthesword.com/2015/2/16/8047269/with-timofey-mozgov-the-cavs-rim-is-protected
Still doesn't outweigh the offensive production Lebron brings, and Lebron is at least as good a defender as Mozgov, just not a shot blocker as much at the rim. Shot blocking is overrated and the league today is more of a jumpshooting league than attacking the rim league. Not saying Mozgov isn't a difference, but so is Tiago. I wouldn't call him the catalyst though. Tim Duncan won MVP when he had David Robinson protecting the rim.
In fact, the rest of that article goes on to say that Mozgov has plenty of defensive deficiencies...
"Mozgov does have some areas where he isn't great defensively. He's not a good defender in space, as he's in the 40th percentile against isolations. And don't ask him to close out on shooters; somehow he's allowing 1.34 PPP on 38 spot-up possessions for the Cavs, good for the 2nd percentile in the league. That's........bad. And most importantly, while his foul rate has been better as a Cav than it has at any other point in his career, he's still averaging four fouls per 36 minutes, which is a little high. As we've seen, particularly in Thursday's game vs. the Chicago Bulls, when Mozgov gets in foul trouble, it handcuffs the Cavs' defense, and they have a tough time managing without him available. That's always part of the risk you take playing a good rim protector, but if Mozgov can't stay on the floor in the playoffs, the Cavs might be screwed, especially if they come up against a team like the Raptors or Bulls, who love to attack the rim."
SpurSwag
03-02-2015, 03:02 PM
In my opinion, the MVP is Harden. However, if the award was given out today, I'm pretty sure Curry would get it
Malik Hairston
03-02-2015, 09:27 PM
Harden is MVP, clearly, but Curry is going to win, tbh..a few reasons:
1- Warriors are heavy public favorites to win the West, while the Rockets are virtually guaranteed to be eliminated in round 1..as we saw when Nowitzki won MVP and the Mavs were outed in round 1, it's a bittersweet, somber mood in the room, which kills the entire celebration and ceremony IMO..Harden himself probably wouldn't care(unlike Dirk) since he seems driven by individual accolades, but still..the league would rather award the most coveted regular season award to a player that has a good chance of playing in June..
2- Harden is arguably the most unlikable player in the NBA, his image doesn't translate well to the average White fan(beard, cooking crack celebration, strip clubs, etc) and his style of play is unwatchable, while Curry is light-skinned, looks like a 12-year old boy, and plays in the Asian/Gay district of America..he's also arguably the most entertaining player in the league, too..
Between Harden and Curry with Westbrook coming behind. Anthony Davis and LeBron are still there however but I don't think either will win.
Malik Hairston
03-02-2015, 10:04 PM
Anthony Davis is out of the conversation with all those missed games + the Pelicans shitty roster winning games without him lately, tbh..
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