Venezuelans March Against Robertson

[Jelly]

Chavez Supporters March Against Robertson

Sunday September 4, 2005 12:16 AM

By PATRICIA RONDON ESPIN

Associated Press Writer

CARACAS, Venezuela (AP) - More than 100 supporters of Venezuelan leader Hugo Chavez marched through Caracas on Saturday to demand justice against American religious broadcaster Pat Robertson for recently suggesting their president should be killed.

Protesters said they were asking Venezuelan prosecutors to get involved. Marchers held signs with images of Robertson, including one calling him an ``enemy of Venezuela.''

The march came after Chavez reiterated in a recent interview with CNN that Venezuela is prepared to defend itself against a U.S. invasion if necessary.

U.S. officials have firmly denied any such plan, but tensions between Chavez and Washington have increased in recent months.

Nearly two weeks ago, Robertson drew condemnation from Venezuela's government and others for suggesting Chavez should be assassinated because he poses a threat to the United States. Robertson, founder of the Christian Coalition of America, later apologized.

``Chavez is so good that he's helping Latin America, and they want to kill him,'' said Victor Farias, 33, a protester, referring to preferential oil deals that Venezuela is offering in the region.

The state-run Bolivarian News Agency, or ABN for its Spanish initials, reported late Friday that Chavez spoke of concerns about a U.S. invasion in an interview with CNN, portions of which were shown in recent days.

``If it occurs to the United States to invade our country - Fidel Castro said it and I agree - a war will start here to last 100 years,'' Chavez said, according to ABN.

U.S. Southern Command spokesman Jose Ruiz said his concerns are unfounded.

``The U.S. government has made it pretty clear there are no plans to invade Venezuela,'' Ruiz said in Miami.

Chavez has accused the U.S. government of backing a short-lived coup against him in 2002, a claim that U.S. officials deny.


I'm sorry, but I just find all this hilarious :lmao

[ChumpDumper]

Just 100?

[Guru of Nothing]

Just 100?

Stonehenge [/Spinal Tap]

[smeagol]

This guy is doing so much harm to Venezuela, 20 yrs will not be enough to repair it.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

I lived in Venezuela, and I've seen first hand what this guy has done to his country! Assasination is not a bad idea IMO!

[Jelly]

Careful Manumania, Old Hugo is going to be demanding that Argentina extradite you too. Maybe you and Pat can share a cell. :lol

[smeagol]

Deep in my heart, I agree with ManuMania.

[whottt]

Ok now wait a second South Americans...

I am well aware that this guy is setting himself up to be a communist dictator...

And BTW, he's getting ready to Nationalize the banking industry after havign already done it to the Oil indusitry and most of the private lands...



But I thought he was still in the honeymoon stage of actually improving the country...As far as I know he's re-invigorated the educational system and infrastructure and housed the poor...so why are South Americans already against him? This is confusing to me....Don't you guys agree with his Socialist policies right now?(In the pre-communist dictator stage)?

He actually is doing some good for that country right now....so why is he unpopular with ya'll? What haven't I heard? My dislike of him is based on what he's going to be become...not what he is right now. What are ya'll basing your dislike on?

[smeagol]

Ok now wait a second South Americans...
Its just ManuMania and myself, we are both from Argentina. Therefore Argentinians. If you have to generalize, al least do it right.



But I thought he was still in the honeymoon stage of actually improving the country...As far as I know he's re-invigorated the educational system and infrastructure and housed the poor...so why are South Americans already against him? This is confusing to me....Don't you guys agree with his Socialist policies right now?(In the pre-communist dictator stage)?
I don't like hardcore socialism in any of its forms. Even if its making the educational system better and upgrading the infrastructure. The flipside of the coin of those good things is usually shitty policies that have a devastating effect.


He actually is doing some good for that country right now....so why is he unpopular with ya'll? What haven't I heard? My dislike of him is based on what he's going to be become...not what he is right now. What are ya'll basing your dislike on?
whottt, you have no clue what's going on in Venezuela because the media does not report what this tyrant is doing. I have many Venezuelan friends and the shit he is doing is scary.

[whottt]

Its just ManuMania and myself, we are both from Argentina. Therefore Argentinians. If you have to generalize, al least do it right.

Yeah but since ya'll are both of the hispanic race I figured South Americans would be more appropriate.

No seriously...it seems to me that that is more of a Soth American thing than an Argentine thing...that's why I said it that way...I call you Argentines all the time.




I don't like hardcore socialism in any of its forms. Even if its making the educational system better and upgrading the infrastructure. The flipside of the coin of those good things is usually shitty policies that have a devastating effect.

Agree 100% but when you are poor uneducated and starving those things seem like all you will ever need...that's why Socialistic tendencies always run strong in poor countries.



whottt, you have no clue what's going on in Venezuela because the media does not report what this tyrant is doing. I have many Venezuelan friends and the shit he is doing is scary.

I know he's supporting Columbian terrorists and talking about unifying much of South America...but I thought that was all Heroes of the poor type stuff and poular with much of the region...

I agree, I obviously don't know everything...that's why I am asking you for info...what is he doing?

Oh and when the US media starts bashing him people here will just say it's rigth wing propaganda...that's why I am askin two people who I know don't like Bush for the info...

What is he doing?

[smeagol]

Yeah but since ya'll are both of the hispanic race I figured South Americans would be more appropriate.

No seriously...it seems to me that that is more of a Soth American thing than an Argentine thing...that's why I said it that way...I call you Argentines all the time.
I will cut you some slack and let you go with a slap on this wrist. Just for this time. :spin



Agree 100% but when you are poor uneducated and starving those things seem like all you will ever need...that's why Socialistic tendencies always run strong in poor countries.
True and not true at the same time. Look at Europe. Look at the Scandinavian countries,



I know he's supporting Columbian terrorists and talking about unifying much of South America...
It's Colombian. Columbian terrorists are those from the Universty of Columbia (those MBA guys sure terrorize my neighborhood). :lol



but I thought that was all Heroes of the poor type stuff and poular with much of the region...
No.


I agree, I obviously don't know everything...that's why I am asking you for info...what is he doing?
Well besides expropriating the land and starting to nationalize certain areas of the economy, as you pointed out, he has put in jail many of his political opponents. Many people have lost their jobs simply because they don't agree with the General.

He has changed the Supreme court, which now supports anything this idiot says a does. He also controls Congress, so he pretty much has a grip on all three branches of Government.

I'm telling you, eventually there will be a civil war to get this dictator out of power and Venezuela will suffer for the next 20 yrs. after that, trying to rebuild itself.


Oh and when the US media starts bashing him people here will just say it's rigth wing propaganda...that's why I am askin two people who I know don't like Bush for the info...
My position towards Bush is neutral.

[Jelly]

Smeagol,
you, rather presumptiously, tell whottt he doesn't have a clue about Venezuela, then when Whott (uncharacteristically) admits that he doesn't know everything and asks you for info, it appears that you don't know much more than Whottt or the rest of us.
The issues with Venezuela and Chavez that you clued us in on have already been well documented in our media.

Also, Whottt calls you South Americans and you take issue??? Give me a break. If you want to be considered completely seperate from other South Americans, then fine, but don't then start making claims that you have a better understanding of Venezuela politics by virtue of being a South American.

[smeagol]

Smeagol,
you, rather presumptiously, tell whottt he doesn't have a clue about Venezuela,
I did not meant it to come across in a presumptious manner. All I meant is that he does not have the inside scoop of what's going on because he does not live in Venezuela and (I presume) he does not have any Venezuelan friends.



then when Whott (uncharacteristically) admits that he doesn't know everything and asks you for info,
That surprised me too :lol



it appears that you don't know much more than Whottt or the rest of us.
All that I know, I hear from Venezuelans or from close friends of mine who have been there recently.



The issues with Venezuela and Chavez that you clued us in on have already been well documented in our media.
I don't follow that much the Venezuelan case in the media.

So the fact that people are losing their jobs because they are not Chavistas has been well documented in the media? And the fact that many members of the opposition are in jail is also closely followed by the media? Again, I was not aware. I thought I brought original points. Actually they were original to this thread because whottt did not mention them.

But the fact is, if you add up my three points plus whottt's two additional points, you can easily conclude what I stated in this and other threads. That Venezuela is in deep shit.



Also, Whottt calls you South Americans and you take issue???
We have butted heads in the past for this issue. In any case, if you notice, my response to him has a :spin meaning some sarcasm on my part was implied.



Give me a break.
Why should I?



If you want to be considered completely seperate from other South Americans, then fine,
When did I say that?

My point was that it was only ManuMania and myself whom whottt was refering to when he said South Americans. And it is well-documented that we are Argentines. No need to use a giant bag to through us into when generalizing, when you can use a smaller one.

If slomo and sovenian 8 were discussing this topic, the correct way to refer to them is Slovenians, not Europeans. Unfortunately, many Americans are quick to make this mistake. I have read many times that Manu and Nocioni are Euros, simply because they played in Europe. Dumb indeed!



but don't then start making claims that you have a better understanding of Venezuela politics by virtue of being a South American.

Huh? Can you link those claims? All I said, a couple of posts ago, was:


I have many Venezuelan friends and the shit he is doing is scary.

All I claimed was hearing first hand what's going on in Venezuela because I work with Venezuelans and one of my best friends here in NY is from Venezuela.

I can tell you how two cousins of one of my Venezuelan collegues were shot by Chavistas in an anti-Chavez rally, or how my good Venezuelan friend has a friend, who is a journalist, whose life was threatened because he wrote articles that oppose the regime. But these micro examples were not what whottt wanted to hear (I presume).

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

I lived in Venezuela, and I've seen first hand what this guy has done to his country! Assasination is not a bad idea IMO!


Deep in my heart, I agree with ManuMania.

Oh, please, have the two of you read what you stated? Chavez is a moron, I have no doubts about that, but he is an elected moron so far. When he becomes a dictator, I will support the idea of taking him out. Do you have any idea how many lives has democracy costed to Latin America? The last thing the region needs is to move back into the 60's and 70's, with head of states being shot by either the military or the marxist terrorists. Yes, there are two sides of the coin to this since Chavez is moving towards a dictator figure, but polarizing the positions will lead us into chaos again, and help him and his "cause". I say let the Venezuelans live under his rule, when he is showing his true colors and will lose the elections, or become a dictator. If the latter happens, then I'm 100% behind the idea of putting a bullet in his head, but so far we need to learn to live with our mistakes, and learn that that is the way democracies work.

I do know from second hand sources (speaking with Venezuelans) that this guy is fucking up the country major time, but let me say it again, let the Venezuelans kick him out in a democratic way. If he loses and tries to hold to his power, then it's time to use different methods.

[smeagol]

MMLH, I would like to see the guy taken out by its own people.

[Manu'sMagicalLeftHand]

MMLH, I would like to see the guy taken out by its own people.

Democratically? Or just taken out?

[whottt]

That surprised me too :lol

I don't think I know everything...nor do I think I am always right....I generally wait to form an opinion on something and so by the time I have strong feelings for something I usually do know what I am talking about.

The many subjects I am ignorant of are easy to see...You won't see me posting on those topics or participating in those discussions.

And I hope Chavez doesn't get assasinated...then he'll become an icon and Chavezism will become a Venzuelan political movement...plus everybody will say it was America that did it...I'd just rather him get ousted by his own people because he sucks. Better to disgrace him than assasinate him.


But I think you guys are seriously underestimating his ability to stay in power....he's surrounded himself with Castro's people....and they aren't clowns. Don't expect him to go anywhere any time soon.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Look. I lived in Caracas and Maracaibo. The two biggest cities in Venezuela. I used to accompany friends to anti-chavist rallies, and I was there in Caracas when the 2 million people were marching. I saw it with my own eyes, and while Chavez was preaching in national television that the march was no more than a couple of thousand people, I must have been delusional, because I could swear I saw millions.

I would like some of you people to tell me how it is you can democratically bring down a dictator who has complete control over congress, the supreme court and almost all media. How do you bring down someone who because he has control of the media, can control what people outside of Venezuela see and believe, and therefore controls world opinion. The only channels that show the actual truth are rogue media channels that risk death (literally) to broadcast what is really happening. When I was over there, their reporters were beaten, shot, and terrorised into submission. One news channel was forced to shut down because chavist supporters broke in during a live broadcast and threatened everyone with death. I say chavist supporters because they were wearing Chavez signature "boina roja" (don't know the translation in english).

This guy was already taken down once, by his own military no less, but because of ignorant world opinion, the Venezuelan people were forced to put him back into power. This guy cares not for freedom of speech, or the lives of others. He is a fascist, and not even a well versed one at that. Lets not forget Mussolini was also democratically elected. Should Venezuela wait 'till things get REALLY out of hand before they take action?

[Jelly]

Okay Manumania,
but who do you think should wack him?

[Vashner]

Wait a few years.. after Iraq we need to make some new weapons. .then we will need something else to test them out on.

[MaNuMaNiAc]

Okay Manumania,
but who do you think should wack him? ...I would, but I'm busy tomorrow... hehehe http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

[jochhejaam]

...I would, but I'm busy tomorrow... hehehe http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/smilol.gif

If there's anything I can do to free up some time in your schedule let me know. :lol