Whiplash - movie review

[cantthinkofanything]

This was a very good movie. Wasn't sure what to expect but had heard good things about it. Great acting...especially by JK Simmons. Definitely deserved the Oscar. Also nice job by Miles Teller who played the lead character. Seemed like he could have been nominated but not sure who would have dropped out of that group. Maybe Bradley Cooper.

8/10

[Blake]

10/10, imo

[Blake]

http://variety.com/2015/tv/news/watch-j-k-simmons-channels-his-whiplash-character-on-snl-1201420846/

[cantthinkofanything]

10/10, imo

Honestly, after thinking about it, I'm having trouble coming up with what was wrong with it. I think maybe because I watched it with my wife and daughter. I convinced my wife that the R was just for "a few bad words" and it was OK for our 14 year old. So maybe my experience was somewhat tainted by cringing everytime he called someone a "fucking cocksucker" or berated a musician for "coming too fast".

Anyway, the best movie I've seen in a long time.

[-21-]

Agreed, great movie.

That ending. :tu

[IronMaxipad]

My favorite film from last year 9.9/10

[Spurminator]

Yeah, my favorite of 2014 by far.

[TheSanityAnnex]

saw it last night...best movie I've seen in a while. That ending was sick.

[Jacob1983]

Simmons deserved the Oscar. Miles Teller was an annoying emo dick in the movie. Telling his cute woman that she would ruin his chances at being great was cold.
The movie was great but there were no likeable characters.

[cantthinkofanything]

Simmons deserved the Oscar. Miles Teller was an annoying emo dick in the movie. Telling his cute woman that she would ruin his chances at being great was cold.
The movie was great but there were no likeable characters.

Emo??? He was a driven overachiever.

[Blake]

Simmons deserved the Oscar. Miles Teller was an annoying emo dick in the movie. Telling his cute woman that she would ruin his chances at being great was cold.
The movie was great but there were no likeable characters.

Yeah the dating thing might be the only drag part in the movie.

[Spurminator]

Emo??? He was a driven overachiever.

Yeah it was basically the opposite of emo. He was completely emotionless. He couldn't reach his potential without rejecting the emotional support of his father and a girlfriend.

[Jacob1983]

You sure? He got pretty emotional over the insults. I just think Miles Teller came of as a dick. He was heartless to his woman. Having to pick between drumming and his woman showed that he wasn't a great drummer. If he had been a great drummer, he could have handled both.

[JMarkJohns]

Teller was hardly emotional save for the two moments his dream had been ripped from him: the first coming after a car accident, the second after a sabotaging in front of anyone who is anyone in his chosen field.

The point in Simmons role isn't that the right person is devoid of emotion when confronted with harsh, almost damning circumstances. The point is that the right person will rise above them, no matter the emotional state because mentality of refusing to fail.

That adversity, even failure is a springboard that encapsulates all emotion into a bitterness toward the status quo, and when this bitter pill is swallowed, rather than allowing the punch to the gut to end you, it enraptures you to greater things.

The idea that Teller was anything other than an emotionless forge of steel, undergoing blast furnaces and hammering to temper out all imperfection is a misunderstanding of the impact of the blows he took and how he handled them. Of course they impacted him. Just as a blast furnace burns out foreign elements, and a hammer bends and folds the metal, every success and failure was a high/low that brought Teller to the precipice, where he could let emotion dictate and therefore fail or let mentality dictate and succeed.

To see that end and think it's the former means you watched the film with your eyes closed and hands over your ears.

An emo would have slit his wrists within 10 minutes of Simmons yelling at him.

When his dad comes and comforts him he is literally engulfed in a physical "good job" or "its OK". His reaction to that was to shun comfort and embrace possible humiliation and failure with the outside chance he excells as a "Fuck you" to Simmons, which is exactly what Simmons had lacked from students in the past.

[JMarkJohns]

And the point of the film is that true greatness is forged.

It is cultivated through devastating hardship from countless hours of labor, practice, and that talent alone is not enough, hence the Parker/Bird narrative. That greatness requires a mentality unlike that of normal, where compliments are disbelieve and criticism the fuel that burns within you, driving you to bigger, better things.

This mentality is literally the opposite of normal, where people disbelieve criticism, passing the buck of fault and blame, disregarding the critique as criticism, surviving off compliments.

It's the difference between amateur and professional where an amateur practices until he gets it right and a professional practices until he can't get it wrong.

I teach entitled assholes who've had their bullshit hung on refrigerator doors since infancy, and the mentality toward criticism is like they are deathly allergic to it, where they recoil at any criticism, and crawl into a fetal position if you don't say you love it, and tear up at the site of anything but a perfect score/grade. They've been told good job their entire life to the point it's like their lysine contingency from Jurassic Park, where if they aren't supplied with a daily dose of "good job" they'll slip into a coma and die.

This film is about the exact opposite of talent equaling good. It's about dedication and sacrifice and criticism and hurt creating greatness.

[cantthinkofanything]

^ that's exactly what I was going to say


You sure? He got pretty emotional over the insults. I just think Miles Teller came of as a dick. He was heartless to his woman. Having to pick between drumming and his woman showed that he wasn't a great drummer. If he had been a great drummer, he could have handled both.

[Blake]

And the point of the film is that true greatness is forged.

It is cultivated through devastating hardship from countless hours of labor, practice, and that talent alone is not enough, hence the Parker/Bird narrative. That greatness requires a mentality unlike that of normal, where compliments are disbelieve and criticism the fuel that burns within you, driving you to bigger, better things.

This mentality is literally the opposite of normal, where people disbelieve criticism, passing the buck of fault and blame, disregarding the critique as criticism, surviving off compliments.

It's the difference between amateur and professional where an amateur practices until he gets it right and a professional practices until he can't get it wrong.

I teach entitled assholes who've had their bullshit hung on refrigerator doors since infancy, and the mentality toward criticism is like they are deathly allergic to it, where they recoil at any criticism, and crawl into a fetal position if you don't say you love it, and tear up at the site of anything but a perfect score/grade. They've been told good job their entire life to the point it's like their lysine contingency from Jurassic Park, where if they aren't supplied with a daily dose of "good job" they'll slip into a coma and die.

This film is about the exact opposite of talent equaling good. It's about dedication and sacrifice and criticism and hurt creating greatness.


Seemed to me the kid had it in him and was going to get there sooner or later. Hell, it wasn't for the chance encounter at the bar, he might have quit altogether.

and the demented thing that sort of goes unnoticed is that a kid commits suicide because he couldn't take the extreme abuse, yet Simmons use of abusive techniques is validated in the end because drummer boy hit that Charlie Parker moment of greatness.

[cantthinkofanything]

Seemed to me the kid had it in him and was going to get there sooner or later. Hell, it wasn't for the chance encounter at the bar, he might have quit altogether.

and the demented thing that sort of goes unnoticed is that a kid commits suicide because he couldn't take the extreme abuse, yet Simmons use of abusive techniques is validated in the end because drummer boy hit that Charlie Parker moment of greatness.


I don't think we know if he was going to get there or not. Or if he did hit the Charlie Parker level of greatness at the end. Just that he hadn't given up yet.

[Blake]

I don't think we know if he was going to get there or not. Or if he did hit the Charlie Parker level of greatness at the end. Just that he hadn't given up yet.

I agree we don't know if was gong to get there on his own, but i think the smile at the end gave us the clear indication that he hit the Charlie Parker moment.

but the question then for me is "is the Simmons way justifiable?" aka does the end justify the means

[cantthinkofanything]

I agree we don't know if was gong to get there on his own, but i think the smile at the end gave us the clear indication that he hit the Charlie Parker moment.


Maybe so. I like that it left it open though. I'm probably going to watch it again soon.



but the question then for me is "is the Simmons way justifiable?" aka does the end justify the means

I think that's a different answer for different people. And maybe not knowable until very late in one's life. In the end, will the kid be content with his music greatness? Or will he lament not having a "normal" life?
Will the onlooker appreciate his contribution to music? Or will he say that it was a wasted life? Different answers for everyone.

[JMarkJohns]

You can certainly demand intensity and dedication without the excessive degradation. However, the backstory of the suicide character is never truly explored, and we see points of few from both extremes where Simmons sees that the kid persevered and achieved and the family of the kid wants a scapegoat.

It is possible for someone to commit suicide because they want to, not because someone drive them to it. I've known two people who have killed themselves, one a friend from high school suffering from post traumatic stress from multiple tours in Iraq, and another down on his luck, unable to kick drug habits. Both lacked mentality to battle through. The soldier used to talk about suicide all the time in high school. As harsh as it is to say, perhaps the PTSD gave him the justification to finally stop joking about it.

Simmons is a villain. I don't think his tactics are necessarily validated, as he lost almost everything. His and Teller's relationship was at a point where something had to give, and at the end, both seemed to see that there was some level of good the other could temper out of the other.

And Teller did need something. His natural drive had absolutely been neutered. Seemed like Simmons had as well.

I can certainly understand a point of view that vilifies rather than beatifies Simmons role. He was a horrible person who struggles to critique over degrade. There is a huge difference. But the idea that Teller was emo because he wasn't stoic amidst devestating failure or because he was detached from traditional, normal relational aspirations is silly.

This film is very throwback. Felt like Mr. Hollands Opus had a bastard child with Full Metal Jacket. There's a point where humanity meets dedication and aspiration and it's not always pretty. I think Simmons realized in the middle of the end scenes that he almost destroyed someone that is likely to be his greatest talent as a student. His demeanor had an about face and embraced Teller where they previously had been adversaries.

[Blake]

Simmons is a villain. I don't think his tactics are necessarily validated, as he lost almost everything.

As COTA mentioned, each viewer decides on their own if the methods are validated, but Simmons smile definitely means he feels validated.

Strange thing for me is that my knee jerk feeling was that he was validated and that everything worked out in the end for everyone. But it wasn't until I started thinking about it later did I realize that he's still the villain and not the victim.
And I still appreciate what the guy was striving for and the desire to push to get it.

Just a bad ass movie.

[Blake]

I think Simmons realized in the middle of the end scenes that he almost destroyed someone that is likely to be his greatest talent as a student. His demeanor had an about face and embraced Teller where they previously had been adversaries.

Yeah, but then he fucks with Teller at the end when he says "...i knew it was you all along..you think I'm stupid?"...and the whole theater audience says "holy shit!"...

So we don't know if Simmons really had that epiphany at the bar and then changed his mind later, or he strung Teller along.

[JMarkJohns]

It's pretty awesome in taking something that's been as pussified as Jazz in recent years and bringing a military intensity to the complications and struggle of its character arc.

I can admire what Simmons strove for and disagree with the excess and extent of his methods. But every photograph I grade at a 6/10 that finds the photographer whining and crying over "What is art" finds me increasingly sympathetic to the idea that a few more "This is shit!" in the developmental years over "you're doing so well!" Might not be the worst thing.

By the time they are 17-20 the entitlement has so jaded their mindset they fume at any criticism, and shut down over any logical argumentation.

[JMarkJohns]

Yeah, but then he fucks with Teller at the end when he says "...i knew it was you all along..you think I'm stupid?"...and the whole theater audience says "holy shit!"...

So we don't know if Simmons really had that epiphany at the bar and then changed his mind later, or he strung Teller along.


Not at the bar. During the drum solo. He's vindictive, then mocking, then seething, then annoyed, then complicit, and then impressed.

[Blake]

Yeah it's the ol participation trophy argument

"you showed up! Great job!"

[JMarkJohns]

His vindictive and mocking stage show almost ended their act before Teller's final scenes defined it. His style nearly deprived Teller of his greatest accomplishment and Simmons own greatest success as a teacher. He could have deprived the world of "Bird" in giving Teller the bird as payback.

Where you see a smile of validation, I see a smirk at the irony.

[Blake]

Not at the bar. During the drum solo. He's vindictive, then mocking, then seething, then annoyed, then complicit, and then impressed.

Oh right.

I'm still wondering at that point for Simmons where the vindictive anger was genuine or when it was just as shtick to push him to hit that Charlie Parker moment.

[cantthinkofanything]

This film is very throwback. Felt like Mr. Hollands Opus had a bastard child with Full Metal Jacket. There's a point where humanity meets dedication and aspiration and it's not always pretty. I think Simmons realized in the middle of the end scenes that he almost destroyed someone that is likely to be his greatest talent as a student. His demeanor had an about face and embraced Teller where they previously had been adversaries.

hmmmm. again, I appreciated how the movie left it open for the audience to fill in the blanks.

But I'm not sure that Simmons realized he almost destroyed Teller. I think he realized that Teller had the drive to push on and that his (Simmons) methods worked.

[Blake]

His vindictive and mocking stage show almost ended their act before Teller's final scenes defined it. His style nearly deprived Teller of his greatest accomplishment and Simmons own greatest success as a teacher. He could have deprived the world of "Bird" in giving Teller the bird as payback.

Where you see a smile of validation, I see a smirk at the irony.

Yeah, but we know that Simmons has no problem with risking having people quit. He knew Teller had talent but he never begged him to stay.

almost an officer and a gentleman "i got no where else to go" type thing

[JMarkJohns]

Yeah it's the ol participation trophy argument

"you showed up! Great job!"


I recall when I was a know-nothing as a photography student and I received an A- for an image that I knew was not very good despite my best attempts. I literally refused the grade. I said "you're doing me no favors in telling me this is not garbage. I refuse your grade. Tell me what is wrong and what I need to do to improve."

Within two years from that date I was a published photographer teaching at the university level. Students who accepted the feigning praise were not doing anything in photography.

But at no point would I throw shit at students, or slap them in the face, or call them names.

Treat them like humans, not fuck ups, and typically you'll establish the rapport that allows you to critique and offer feedback without them shutting down.

I've not had my Ansel Adams, but I've had students who knew nothing of photography earn money in the industry, and even win awards.

This doesn't mean I'm "good job". I'm "You can do more".

[JMarkJohns]

hmmmm. again, I appreciated how the movie left it open for the audience to fill in the blanks.

But I'm not sure that Simmons realized he almost destroyed Teller. I think he realized that Teller had the drive to push on and that his (Simmons) methods worked.


No chance. He wanted to destroy Teller. Rewatch the end scene. He was pissed, not happy, when Teller came back and annoyed, not thrilled that Teller stole the show. Then, midway through, his rage became complicity, and he became involved in the success of the student.

[cantthinkofanything]

No chance. He wanted to destroy Teller. Rewatch the end scene. He was pissed, not happy, when Teller came back and annoyed, not thrilled that Teller stole the show. Then, midway through, his rage became complicity, and he became involved in the success of the student.

Yeah. I agree. I thought your comments earlier implied that Simmons felt guilty (realizing he destroyed Teller). As opposed to realizing that he achieved his goal (to destroy Teller).

[JMarkJohns]

Yeah, but we know that Simmons has no problem with risking having people quit. He knew Teller had talent but he never begged him to stay.

almost an officer and a gentleman "i got no where else to go" type thing


His friendly talk with Teller was a way to gain Teller's trust so he could publicly destroy Teller for destroying him and not being man enough to take it, unlike even the kid who committed suicide who took it, survived it without bitching out and filing emotional charges against him.

He didn't want Teller to be his Bird. He wanted to remind Teller he is shit without him, and Teller blinks momentarily, giving Simmons endless delight as he kicks him not having it before the audience. He is surprised when Teller comes back and likely figures it will add to the tale, when it takes a turn you see the cognitive dissonance on Simmons face as he grudgingly is complicit to increasingly involved in the success.

Another reason why the movie is great, is that in all that happens, the why of it happening is open to individual perception and interpretation.

[JMarkJohns]

Simmons can both realize he almost destroyed Teller, therefore denying the world art and feel conflicted over it, and simultaneously rejoice he didn't.

He was never sad he destroyed Teller. In fact I'd say he was gleeful. But in the end he can absolutely realize he almost cost himself, Teller success while also not giving a shit since in the moment he's involved in said success.

The irony I mention is that if he had his initial way, Teller would have been great, but ended up destroyed, while in having his destructive way, Teller ended up great despite intentions.

The destruction didn't get Teller over the hump. It almost denied it. But it triggered something in Teller than fueled Teller to overcome the destruction. In those instances, you can't do anything but smile.

[cantthinkofanything]

His friendly talk with Teller was a way to gain Teller's trust so he could publicly destroy Teller for destroying him and not being man enough to take it, unlike even the kid who committed suicide who took it, survived it without bitching out and filing emotional charges against him.

He didn't want Teller to be his Bird. He wanted to remind Teller he is shit without him, and Teller blinks momentarily, giving Simmons endless delight as he kicks him not having it before the audience. He is surprised when Teller comes back and likely figures it will add to the tale, when it takes a turn you see the cognitive dissonance on Simmons face as he grudgingly is complicit to increasingly involved in the success.

Another reason why the movie is great, is that in all that happens, the why of it happening is open to individual perception and interpretation.

I think he really did want Teller to be his Bird. But at some point early on (possibly the first scene when he walks away from Teller), I think he realized that he wasn't going to be. And maybe with Simmons makeup, no one was going to ever live up to what Simmons thought the "Bird" level was. And in reality he was on some Quixotic mission that tore up anyone thinking they actually could receive Simmons ultimate praise.

But yeah...awesome movie. And the more I think about it, the more I appreciate it.

[cantthinkofanything]

The destruction didn't get Teller over the hump. It almost denied it. But it triggered something in Teller than fueled Teller to overcome the destruction. In those instances, you can't do anything but smile.

I think that's a great point if you meant it the way I'm seeing it. Teller didn't continue on because of Simmons methods. He didn't come back to please Simmons. He came back to shoot the bird at him. It was ultimately his hate for Simmons and not his desire of praise that took him to the next level. But in Simmons eyes, it was the total opposite. Maybe.

[JMarkJohns]

Simmons "Fuck you!" lead to Teller "Fuck you!" and the pair in vindictive exploits against the other ended up vindicating the pairs existence.

Irony

[cantthinkofanything]

Simmons "Fuck you!" lead to Teller "Fuck you!" and the pair in vindictive exploits ended up vindicating the pairs existences.

Irony

Symmetry as well. Like Stevie Wonder and Paul McCartney singing together even though Paul was a notorious slave owner. And Stevie's blindness takes on a symbolic role in addition to possibly being the major force behind his musicality.

[Jacob1983]

I thought Teller finally got the approval of Simmons at the end of the movie when JK smiled after the performance.