Video game power rankings

[maddnezz]

Hey guys, out of sheer excitement about the new season and players joining the team I updated the rosters on NBA 2K3 (XBOX) and NBA LIVE 2005(PS2)
WOW, the overall team stats were unreal concidering how most of the nation is in love with hype over substance(every year ranking our boys low when true SPURS fans know the truth!!) What's wild is that on both systems, the computer will take Bruce and Manu out of the lineup and insert Fin and Big Dog (obviously biased game programers, or maybe they just dont' watch enough SPURS games). Now I know it's just a video game, but it sure is fun KICKIN THE LIVING HELL OUTTA YOUR FRIENDS when your the only SPURS lover in town. Hope the 2K6 and LIVE 2006 do our boys some justice!!!!
(Just moved back to Atlanta, better job but no COWBOYS or SPURS !!! :fro :hat

[T Park]

maddnezz, if your updating the rosters, Big Dog isn't with the Spurs right now.

[maddnezz]

True, he's not signed yet.

[sprrs]

You need to take into account stuff like the fact that Manu has taken his game to a new level last season. Some of his skills are most likely going to be raised in the new game.

[The Artest Factor]

Bruce Bowen's overall game will be horrible. He's a poor offensive player, poor rebounder, poor passer, poor ball handler, he's relatively unathletic and he get's very few steals and blocks. The only rating he'll be above average in is perimeter defense, and even then that's based on the misconception that Bowen is actually a good defender when in actuality he get's torched on a regular basis.

[usckk]

Bruce Bowen's overall game will be horrible. He's a poor offensive player, poor rebounder, poor passer, poor ball handler, he's relatively unathletic and he get's very few steals and blocks. The only rating he'll be above average in is perimeter defense, and even then that's based on the misconception that Bowen is actually a good defender when in actuality he get's torched on a regular basis.

You got to be kidding me.

[Kori Ellis]

Bruce Bowen's overall game will be horrible. He's a poor offensive player, poor rebounder, poor passer, poor ball handler, he's relatively unathletic and he get's very few steals and blocks. The only rating he'll be above average in is perimeter defense, and even then that's based on the misconception that Bowen is actually a good defender when in actuality he get's torched on a regular basis.

You know, I don't mind posters here from other teams.

But if you can't step up you game and post with some sense of intelligence, you might as well GTFO now. Can you back the Pacers without bashing the Spurs? If they are so damn good, you should be able to do so.

[Kori Ellis]

The only rating he'll be above average in is perimeter defense, and even then that's based on the misconception that Bowen is actually a good defender when in actuality he get's torched on a regular basis.

Definition of Torched?

Ray Allen averaged 32 points on 51% shooting in the first round of the playoffs. In the WCSF against Bowen -- 21 points on 43.5%.

Shawn Marion averaged 22 points per game in the first two rounds of the playoffs. In the WCF against Bowen -- 7.8 points on 14.3% shooting.

Rip Hamilton had averaged over 21 points per game in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs. In the Finals against Bowen - 16 points on 38.6%. Not to mention what Bowen did to Billups when he was switched onto him late in games.

[usckk]

Definition of Torched?

Ray Allen averaged 32 points on 51% shooting in the first round of the playoffs. In the WCSF against Bowen -- 21 points on 43.5%.

Shawn Marion averaged 22 points per game in the first two rounds of the playoffs. In the WCF against Bowen -- 7.8 points on 14.3% shooting.

Rip Hamilton had averaged over 21 points per game in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs. In the Finals against Bowen - 16 points on 38.6%. Not to mention what Bowen did to Billups when he was switched onto him late in games.


OWNED! :lol

[clubalien]

bowen sometimes goes it tourched by people running past him
and keep in mind ron artest is still a better defender and O
also Bowen does alot of "tricks" and illegal things

That said bowen certianly is known for his D

[usckk]

I have to agree. If I was an opponent of the Spurs, I would absolutley hate Bowen. He does seem to lean towards shooters while they are mid-air, thus causing ankle injures when they land on his foot. But since he's on our team, SSSSHHHHH!!!

[The Artest Factor]

Even if he is a great defender, you all can't deny he's lacking in virtually every other aspect of the game. From scoring, to rebounding, to passing, Bruce Bowen is the least gifted starter on a championship team since Luc Longley with the Bulls.

[Kori Ellis]

Even if he is a great defender, you all can't deny he's lacking in virtually every other aspect of the game. From scoring, to rebounding, to passing, Bruce Bowen is the least gifted starter on a championship team since Luc Longley with the Bulls.

So he is a great defender, or he isn't? You just said he regularly got torched and wasn't that good.

Bowen does what is asked of him offensively in the Spurs system - hits 3's. But more importantly, he is the driving force behind the Spurs whole defensive game plan and one of the best (if not the best) perimeter defenders in the game. You can bag on his limited offensive arsenal all you want, but to call him not gifted is ridiculous. He's obviously extremely gifted defensively.

Bottomline is that Bruce Bowen is a tremendous part of the Spurs winning Championships.

[Ozzy]

What's wild is that on both systems, the computer will take Bruce and Manu out of the lineup and insert Fin and Big Dog (obviously biased game programers, or maybe they just dont' watch enough SPURS games).


Well, you can blame this one on the game programmers but it is certainly not because they are biased. You have to understand that things like 'chemistry' and 'Spurs system' are extremely hard to code.

Ok basically you could add two attributes to each players, ie:
- chemistry - how well the player connects to other players...
ok lets say each player could have a list of players to which he connects well, to which he is neutral, etc... or we could have categories like 'balla', 'egoist', 'decent', 'spurs material' :) and then 'decent' players play well together- improve team chemistry, egoists ruin team chemistry
Now the problem is, when does players chemistry prevails over his stats?
For example: Kobe Bryant goes to the Pistons, he is marked as an egoist...
So should he replace Rip Hamilton in the starting five due to his better stats
or does his 'egoism' has too much influence on team chemistry? It is hard
to determine this...

- 'system fit' - how well the players fits into the system of his team
this can be for example coded for the original team that the player starts in... but how is computer going do determine 'system fit' if a player changes the team ? (probably no way until we raise the artificial intelligence to a completely new level). Also same problem as above: how to determine when 'system fit' prevails over stats?
IE: Kobe goes to Spurs. His stats are certainly better than Bowens. So does
Bowens 'system fit' still prevail?

Well, let's say that it would be possible to add those things to the game, but to a very limited extent. And basically, the loss of time coders would use on it would not be worth the results they would get. So, for the moment, you will have to live with it :). (sadly, it will become even worse, if things continue the way they are going in the game industry...).

PS: Ok, I'll admit that the Sims actually implement such relations to a pretty decent level, but the Sims are a game based on such logic...


So, while I agree with you that general public is biased, you certainly cannot pin that one to the game programmers being biased. They might be, but this is certainly not the reason that Finley gets the advantage over Bowen in NBA2KX

[E20]

OMFG!!! :wow

Kori just told that mother fucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I gotta write this shit down!!!

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Bruce Bowen's overall game will be horrible. He's a poor offensive player, poor rebounder, poor passer, poor ball handler, he's relatively unathletic and he get's very few steals and blocks. The only rating he'll be above average in is perimeter defense, and even then that's based on the misconception that Bowen is actually a good defender when in actuality he get's torched on a regular basis.


This coming from a guy who's teams best player will spend 2 months during the season spewing non-sense about "not getting respect" or "the nba is racist" You want respect J'Oneal??? WIN SOMETHING

[romsey31]

This coming from a guy who's teams best player will spend 2 months during the season spewing non-sense about "not getting respect" or "the nba is racist" You want respect J'Oneal??? WIN SOMETHING


JO said that ONCE and you're saying he spent two months? You'd want respect to if Spurs won 61 games and your playoff games were on NBA TV wouldnt you be mad?

He said the NBA was racist because of the age limit. Do you see any white guys making the jump from high school to the pros? You hardly see anyone who's under 20 that isnt black in the NBA. Most of the guys who do it are poor black teenagers who want to make life better for their fam. You can join the Army at 18 so why shouldnt you be able to play basketball? Why dont you pick sense from nonsense and stop talking crap on a public forum!

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

JO said that ONCE and you're saying he spent two months? You'd want respect to if Spurs won 61 games and your playoff games were on NBA TV wouldnt you be mad?

He said the NBA was racist because of the age limit. Do you see any white guys making the jump from high school to the pros? You hardly see anyone who's under 20 that isnt black in the NBA. Most of the guys who do it are poor black teenagers who want to make life better for their fam. You can join the Army at 18 so why shouldnt you be able to play basketball? Why dont you pick sense from nonsense and stop talking crap on a public forum!

What exactly has J'Oneal or the Pacers done that deserves respect?? They are a good team, not a great team.

Then he comes out and makes the age limit a race issue?? how is it racist because it makes someone wait 1 year before they can enter the pro's?? plus its not only black players affected, alot of europeans are affected as well, so quit defending J'Oneal, trying to justify his stupidity

[jermaine7fan]

What exactly has J'Oneal or the Pacers done that deserves respect?? They are a good team, not a great team.

Then he comes out and makes the age limit a race issue?? how is it racist because it makes someone wait 1 year before they can enter the pro's?? plus its not only black players affected, alot of europeans are affected as well, so quit defending J'Oneal, trying to justify his stupidityHe didn't pull the race card... he was lead to it with the question that was asked of him... he didn't just come out and say it was racially motivated...
Q: Do you think race has anything to do with it?
JO A: The league is mostly black... so you tell me.

He did not just come out and state it... he was led. And what have we done to deserve respect? How about taking the Pistons to six games with a completely injured roster minus an all-star... that is what.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

People pick them to be the 3rd best team in the east?? what more respect do they deserve??

[jermaine7fan]

People pick them to be the 3rd best team in the east?? what more respect do they deserve??1st in East... 'cause that is where we will be. And you did ask what we have done to deserve respect.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

I think they can beat Detroit, but not Miami. Honestly I don't think J'Oneal is mature enough to carry his team any further.

[jermaine7fan]

I think they can beat Detroit, but not Miami. Honestly I don't think J'Oneal is mature enough to carry his team any further.Many Pacer fans feel the same way about JO... I am not one of them (but I may be a bit jaded cause he is my fav :lol ) But as far as Miami goes... they will come in third... Shaq is older and prolly will never be 100% come playoff time ever again... and they have added big names... not the intangibles they needed to get better... I think they will be the biggest flop team in the NBA this year... Minnesota Heat.

[GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI]

Yea, I am not a fan of the off-season moves they made, but if Shaq is 70% healthy they still should have #1 or #2 spot locked

[jermaine7fan]

Yea, I am not a fan of the off-season moves they made, but if Shaq is 70% healthy they still should have #1 or #2 spot lockedIt is a sad day in the NBA at center... a 70% Shaq is still prolly the best in the league... but I believe that Shaq and Wade will be mad at the other starters by the second week of the season... Antoine and Williams are gonna start acting like they are the dominating one's on the team and Shaq will have them benched :lol

[xcoriate]

Yeah, I don't thimk Shaq is going to get 20-10 this year. The decline is happening.

We really need some more Cs in the game.

[romsey31]

What exactly has J'Oneal or the Pacers done that deserves respect?? They are a good team, not a great team.

Then he comes out and makes the age limit a race issue?? how is it racist because it makes someone wait 1 year before they can enter the pro's?? plus its not only black players affected, alot of europeans are affected as well, so quit defending J'Oneal, trying to justify his stupidity


Alot of Europeans like who? Darko? How much other Europeans come over here under 19? They were trying to change the Limit to 21 not just one year. He didnt even make it a race issue, he asked a question.