Tiago's post game

[lofds]

In the past few games Tiago has been more aggressive and more successful in the post than I've ever seen him. Has he done some serious work on his moves, or is he just feeling more confident than ever?

[apalisoc_9]

he is a better option than td in the post.

[hater]

Feeling healthy and getting in shape

[Dex]

In the past few games Tiago has been more aggressive and more successful in the post than I've ever seen him. Has he done some serious work on his moves, or is he just feeling more confident than ever?

His weak little hooks, flips, and chips are actually going in right now. They could just as easily start popping out again and he'll look like the old Tiago.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everything Tiago brings to the team. He shores up the defensive paint, and he has great enough awareness and footwork around the rim to be an efficient, 50% plus scorer. He just has absolutely no idea how to finish strong. I've never seen a guy so big throw up so many 2-foot hook shots when he could just as easily dunk it.

[FkLA]

His weak little hooks, flips, and chips are actually going in right now. They could just as easily start popping out again and he'll look like the old Tiago.

Don't get me wrong, I appreciate everything Tiago brings to the team. He shores up the defensive paint, and he has great enough awareness and footwork around the rim to be an efficient, 50% plus scorer. He just has absolutely no idea how to finish strong. I've never seen a guy so big throw up so many 2-foot hook shots when he could just as easily dunk it.

Have you seen him dunk? Dude can barely even jump over a penny. Probably why he doesn't dunk much. His post game consists of a lot more than just that awkward hook though--his PPP has been pretty good for a couple yrs in a row IIRC.

[cd021]

Have you seen him dunk? Dude can barely even jump over a penny. Probably why he doesn't dunk much. His post game consists of a lot more than just that awkward hook though--his PPP has been pretty good for a couple yrs in a row IIRC.

:lmao

he has been a good low volume, efficient, scorer from the low post. Awkward but he gets it done. Would like to see more looks going forward, especially against the Mavs and maybe Memphis with ZBO checking him.

[cd021]

Its pretty amusing how much he gets his shot blocked. He actually does dunk a fair amount of made field goals though.

5 Seasons:

302 Games, 235 FGs blocked (.7 per game)

.590 % from 0-3 Feet (career average)3.5 shots from 0-3 feet per game, 140 dunks (.46 dunks per game)

4 Post Seasons

58 Games, 32 FGs blocked (.55 per game)

.731 FG % from 0-3 Feet

3.2 shots from 0-3 feet per game, 24 dunks (.413 dunks per game)

this season and last season he hasn't been nearly as good at finishing at the rim but his finishing has been excellent in the postseason.

he's only hitting 59% of his shots from 0-3 feet (Duncan's is at .694 and Baynes .624) Splitter is 14th on the team from that area.

[Seventyniner]

he is a better option than td in the post.

Got to agree with this. Duncan is taking on Splitter's role of just rolling to the basket. I read somewhere that for Duncan's career, 53% or so of his made FG have been assisted but it's up to 74% this season.

[jag]

He's been a better option than Tim in the post since like 2012.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

he is a better option than td in the post.
:lol

i wish people that posted watched basketball

[ducks]

dude has confidence now fully healthy
his mind now is right

[Agloco]

Dude needs to work on finishing his shit. I cant count the number of times hes missed stuff from inside 3 feet because of a weak move.

[cd021]

Spurs Post Up Stats:

Splitter- 1.7 (Post Ups Per Game)-1.01 PPS-1.8 Points Per Game-.567 FG %

Diaw -2.37 (Post Ups Per Game)-.85 PPS- 2.1 Points Per Game-.500 FG %

Duncan-4.2 (Post Ups Per Game) .79 PPS-3.3 Points Per Game-.393 FG %

Leonard-2.2 (Post Ups Per Game)-.82 PPS -2.2 Points Per Game-.423 FG %

[apalisoc_9]

Spurs Post Up Stats:

Splitter- 1.7 (Post Ups Per Game)-1.01 PPS-1.8 Points Per Game-.567 FG %

Diaw -2.37 (Post Ups Per Game)-.85 PPS- 2.1 Points Per Game-.500 FG %

Duncan-4.2 (Post Ups Per Game) .79 PPS-3.3 Points Per Game-.393 FG %

Leonard-2.2 (Post Ups Per Game)-.82 PPS -2.2 Points Per Game-.423 FG %

As I have said numerous times. TD is the worst post up option..Pop knows this though. Diaw, Leonard have more touches in the post in the last 30 games or so..and splitter is getting more touches in the post now than TD.

But he's my hero..

:cry:cry

[tmtcsc]

When Tiago plays up to his potential, he makes the Spurs so much better - offensively and defensively. Sorry for the "Capt. Obvious" remarks but its just so damn clear. An aggressive Tiago is a difference maker.

[tmtcsc]

TD is the best "almost 39 year old" player in the league and its not even close. I think we lose sight of that sometimes. He's not what he used to be but what he gives the Spurs at this point in his career is nothing short of miraculous. Want a comparison? Look at Kevin Garnett.

TD is consistent, a leader, a great rebounder and smart defensive player. He may not always get to where he needs to be defensively but its not because he was clueless. He's competing with guys who don't wake up with strange pains and aches due to age. Love that dude.

[cd021]

As I have said numerous times. TD is the worst post up option..Pop knows this though. Diaw, Leonard have more touches in the post in the last 30 games or so..and splitter is getting more touches in the post now than TD.

But he's my hero..

:cry:cry


Duncans shooting percentage is bad but Diaws effectiveness comes, in part from being more selective in post ups. Depending on the match ups he is more aggressive in the post. or on the taking jumpers. Duncan has to compete against the other teams best starting big trying to post someone like Bogut or Chandler is different that posting someone like Harrison Barnes, Batum, Josh Smith or Terrance Jones.

Duncan of those players draws shooting fouls at 14.8% clip, Splitter is the only other Spurs that draws shooting fouls more than 10% of the time.

Duncan turnover rate in is very good in comparison to Boris Diaw 9.7% to 19.3%. Of his 277 post ups, he has only turned it over 27 times. Diaw has turned it over 32 times in 166 post touches.

The Spurs appear to be diversifying the post up attack. Including Baynes (who averages .8 post ups per game) the Spurs average 11.2 post ups per game Duncan accounts for 37% of those. In the postseason, I'd like to see the Spurs use Splitter in the post against players like Dirk, Montejunas, Blake Griffin and Draymond Green.

[testies]

Dude needs to work on finishing his shit. I cant count the number of times hes missed stuff from inside 3 feet because of a weak move.
he finishes at a relly high rate, idiot

[Southwest Texas Fan]

TD is the best "almost 39 year old" player in the league and its not even close. I think we lose sight of that sometimes. He's not what he used to be but what he gives the Spurs at this point in his career is nothing short of miraculous. Want a comparison? Look at Kevin Garnett.

TD is consistent, a leader, a great rebounder and smart defensive player. He may not always get to where he needs to be defensively but its not because he was clueless. He's competing with guys who don't wake up with strange pains and aches due to age. Love that dude.

:tu

[Malik Hairston]

I think Pop has been going to it more frequently due to Diaw's struggles and Duncan being one of the worst post players in the league, at this point, tbh..it's nice to have a little versatility in the offense like the Spurs had in previous years, of course..

I imagine it may have a little to do with a potential Warriors matchup, too..

[SpursFan86]

Splitter is in the 94th percentile in terms of post-up offense...pretty damn impressive. All of the guys ahead of him have fewer post-up possessions, too.

I'm fine with Duncan posting up as long as it's a mismatch. I can't stand seeing him isolate against guys like Dwight, DeAndre Jordan, Ibaka (yes, I know what happened in OT of Game 6...that's not normal), etc.

[tholdren]

Terrible thread. Splitter got outplayed by ayers last night

[TD 21]

Duncans shooting percentage is bad but Diaws effectiveness comes, in part from being more selective in post ups. Depending on the match ups he is more aggressive in the post. or on the taking jumpers. Duncan has to compete against the other teams best starting big trying to post someone like Bogut or Chandler is different that posting someone like Harrison Barnes, Batum, Josh Smith or Terrance Jones.

Duncan of those players draws shooting fouls at 14.8% clip, Splitter is the only other Spurs that draws shooting fouls more than 10% of the time.

Duncan turnover rate in is very good in comparison to Boris Diaw 9.7% to 19.3%. Of his 277 post ups, he has only turned it over 27 times. Diaw has turned it over 32 times in 166 post touches.

The Spurs appear to be diversifying the post up attack. Including Baynes (who averages .8 post ups per game) the Spurs average 11.2 post ups per game Duncan accounts for 37% of those. In the postseason, I'd like to see the Spurs use Splitter in the post against players like Dirk, Montejunas, Blake Griffin and Draymond Green.

Excellent post. A lot of advanced stats are largely based on context, something the vast majority either don't realize or acknowledge.

I've always felt Splitter had an underrated post game because a lot of it looks awkward. It's not something to feature consistently obviously, but anytime he's got a blatant mismatch, they should absolutely utilize it, particularly against the Warriors, with their constant switching of the pick and roll.

[DesignatedT]

When a nba championship is on the line, I'll still take Timmy.

[cd021]

When a nba championship is on the line, I'll still take Timmy.

I remember in '13 during the Finals he had a mediocre game 2, 3 and 4 iirc. In Game 6 and Game 7 he was terrific especially in the low post. When it comes down to it I'd trust in Tim. His extra gear is still there.

[rmt]

Splitter is in the 94th percentile in terms of post-up offense...pretty damn impressive. All of the guys ahead of him have fewer post-up possessions, too.

I'm fine with Duncan posting up as long as it's a mismatch. I can't stand seeing him isolate against guys like Dwight, DeAndre Jordan, Ibaka (yes, I know what happened in OT of Game 6...that's not normal), etc.

Well, who do you want them to go to with Parker out? And it worked, didn't it? Iirc, that's when they got a little separation. I'm hoping that he's just pacing himself recently - keeping some in the tank for the playoffs. He had to do a lot of heavy lifting early in the season because of injuries. We see flashes of the beautiful ball movement. Hopefully they'll start to shoot better and be more consistent.

[lefty]

Better than Enrique in the post

[cd021]

Splitter is in the 94th percentile in terms of post-up offense...pretty damn impressive. All of the guys ahead of him have fewer post-up possessions, too.

I'm fine with Duncan posting up as long as it's a mismatch. I can't stand seeing him isolate against guys like Dwight, DeAndre Jordan, Ibaka (yes, I know what happened in OT of Game 6...that's not normal), etc.

Ironically Duncan seems to do well against Ibaka and especially Jordan. I remember Reggie Miller (I think) mentioning that he didn't think Brooks wanted Ibaka to guard Duncan.That maybe be because Duncans finishing ability at the rim and Ibaka would have to help off of him to contest shots or because he was worried that Duncan could score in the low post against him.

Duncan has done a great job against Jordan, I think he went 9-12 in the last meeting. Jordons a bit too aggressive and Duncan uses a lot of pump fakes and up and unders to get him off balance.

[BillMc]

Spurs Post Up Stats:

Splitter- 1.7 (Post Ups Per Game)-1.01 PPS-1.8 Points Per Game-.567 FG %

Diaw -2.37 (Post Ups Per Game)-.85 PPS- 2.1 Points Per Game-.500 FG %

Duncan-4.2 (Post Ups Per Game) .79 PPS-3.3 Points Per Game-.393 FG %

Leonard-2.2 (Post Ups Per Game)-.82 PPS -2.2 Points Per Game-.423 FG %

I knew Timmy had declined but didn't think it was that serious a drop.

[minuzzo21]

Tiago and Diaw has been much more aggressive offensively, and this is a very good new, I hope they continue in this way

[AFBlue]

Tiago has always been very solid fundamentally with his post moves. He has great footwork and is smart enough to get himself a good look at the rim. But, he's never going to be an elite finisher with the weak hook and flip shots that he has. There's just not enough consistency with release.

I do like his aggressiveness though.

[AFBlue]

Also, not hating on Splitter...even if he's never a "go-to" player in the post, he's still elite in the pick-and-roll game and a solid defender.

[pgardn]

he is a better option than td in the post.

Holy shit...

Why, because Duncan occassionally gets doubled?
Dont answer that, sorry. You are so lost Gilligan...

Tiago's footwork and shot are much better, but his forte is still breaking to the basket and finding open seems, not posting up.

[pgardn]

He's been a better option than Tim in the post since like 2012.

Again, holy shit...

Tim can get to the post in an offenive position and create the danger to begin with. Totally overlook what it takes to be able to post up. And Tim will absolutely punish mismatches. Did anyone watch the playoffs against Miami when they tried smaller men?

[apalisoc_9]

these mainstream fans just can't seem to accept that there's a better post option than TD..

There's a reason why Pop calls more Kawhi posts and Also diaw post ups in a game despite the fact that diaw plays less minutes.

But but game 6...:cry

:lol

[testies]

Tiago has better reverse layups than any guard in the game. Unblockable.

[DrSteffo]

If you only care for dunks you should switch team tbh. Tiago is smart and plays to his strengths.

[pgardn]

these mainstream fans just can't seem to accept that there's a better post option than TD..

There's a reason why Pop calls more Kawhi posts and Also diaw post ups in a game despite the fact that diaw plays less minutes.

But but game 6...:cry

:lol

No there is not. Duncan plays down low, gets position better, catches better, than any post we have.
So you want KL low blocking to foul line all game like Dunan Einstein? Really? Diaw too, all game?
You don't understand this game, you really dont, and you claim to have played... B Fkn S.

[apalisoc_9]

No there is not. Duncan plays down low, gets position better, catches better, than any post we have.
So you want KL low blocking to foul line all game like Dunan Einstein? Really? Diaw too, all game?
You don't understand this game, you really dont, and you claim to have played... B Fkn S.

you sound fat, IMO.

Kawhi, Tiago, Diaw in the post > TD.

[Perry Mason]

There is more to player analysis than a blended percentage. That provides some meaningful information as to a player's season-long consistency. But when you are evaluating a 38 year old former best player in the league, you account for context.

And in this instance, this player cannot bring the night in, night out consistency because banging down low is hard on your body. But he never lost his elite-level positioning, flipping, boxing out, and footwork. So when you really need the buckets in the playoffs, he sacrifices his body and can reach his old level for a game, or even just a quarter.

And when it happens, it can mean a championship. Without Game 6 OKC last year, who knows what happens. And it isn't the only example in the last 2 years of when "inefficient" TD postups suddenly became the best and most successful option against the toughest opponents.

There is a recurring mistake on this board where some are treating advanced statistics like the final word on a player, without understanding context or the mathematics that go into those formulas. They conflate blended averages of regular season performance with spot-level talent needed in a single game. Basketball is a game of roles when played at the highest level. And wily veterans who can resdiscover their strength and moves for a game or a quarter can mean the difference between a first round exit and a championship.

[Malik Hairston]

There is more to player analysis than a blended percentage. That provides some meaningful information as to a player's season-long consistency. But when you are evaluating a 38 year old former best player in the league, you account for context.

And in this instance, this player cannot bring the night in, night out consistency because banging down low is hard on your body. But he never lost his elite-level positioning, flipping, boxing out, and footwork. So when you really need the buckets in the playoffs, he sacrifices his body and can reach his old level for a game, or even just a quarter.

And when it happens, it can mean a championship. Without Game 6 OKC last year, who knows what happens. And it isn't the only example in the last 2 years of when "inefficient" TD postups suddenly became the best and most successful option against the toughest opponents.

There is a recurring mistake on this board where some are treating advanced statistics like the final word on a player, without understanding context or the mathematics that go into those formulas. They conflate blended averages of regular season performance with spot-level talent needed in a single game. Basketball is a game of roles when played at the highest level. And wily veterans who can resdiscover their strength and moves for a game or a quarter can mean the difference between a first round exit and a championship.

:lmao this is one of the stupidest things I have ever read, tbh :lmao

[Malik Hairston]

Duncan's positioning is still elite, it's his best offensive attribute nowadays..he seals his defender very well, and positions himself to receive the entry pass over or around the defender better than anybody in the league..

However, his 1 on 1 post game is absolutely awful, and you don't need the stats to tell you that:lol..he doesn't get any leverage, he is no longer able to back his man down since the weight loss, he doesn't use much versatility in his post moves, and he usually tries too hard to draw fouls IMO..

Not sure why people keep pointing to the OKC game 6..it was awesome to see TD(my favorite player of all-time) step up and take over in the key stretches of the game, but only 1 of those 3 possessions resulted in a nice post move to beat a defender of similar size:lol..the 2nd possession was a desperation foul call against Ibaka, and the final shot was a post-up against 6-foot 1 Reggie Jackson(still impressive that he didn't allow Westbrook to steal the ball and/or block his shot, though)..

Tim is still a great player and one of the best bigs in the league, he's by far the 2nd best player on this team, but his post game is pretty awful..it has been the case for at least 3 years, too..

[jag]

There is more to player analysis than a blended percentage. That provides some meaningful information as to a player's season-long consistency. But when you are evaluating a 38 year old former best player in the league, you account for context.

And in this instance, this player cannot bring the night in, night out consistency because banging down low is hard on your body. But he never lost his elite-level positioning, flipping, boxing out, and footwork. So when you really need the buckets in the playoffs, he sacrifices his body and can reach his old level for a game, or even just a quarter.

And when it happens, it can mean a championship. Without Game 6 OKC last year, who knows what happens. And it isn't the only example in the last 2 years of when "inefficient" TD postups suddenly became the best and most successful option against the toughest opponents.

There is a recurring mistake on this board where some are treating advanced statistics like the final word on a player, without understanding context or the mathematics that go into those formulas. They conflate blended averages of regular season performance with spot-level talent needed in a single game. Basketball is a game of roles when played at the highest level. And wily veterans who can resdiscover their strength and moves for a game or a quarter can mean the difference between a first round exit and a championship.

What the hell are you talking about?

Yes, Duncan has good games in the post, when the matchup is favorable and he works his ass off. But he has not been the best post player on the team for 2, maybe 3 years now. And against common defensive matchups, he has scored with less efficiency than Splitter. You use the sample size of a 1 game success as the basis for your "context" argument, while completely ignoring his poor performances in post-up situations during the last few playoff runs. Duncan is very smart with his footwork and positioning, and it's not surprising that he abused Ibaka (a dumb player and poor 1on1 post defender) in the post.

This isn't so much about effort as it is about matchups. Post-up success is very much matchup-based for both Duncan and Splitter. The difference is that at this point in his career, Duncan has a much smaller list of favorable matchups than Splitter.

[wildbill2u]

In the past few games Tiago has been more aggressive and more successful in the post than I've ever seen him. Has he done some serious work on his moves, or is he just feeling more confident than ever?

The thing that drives me crazy about Splitter on offense is the way he will avoid a straight to the basket layup or slam (which seems like a sure thing) in favor of a reverse layup. Having to take that extra step or two sometimes results in recovery by the defense coming down or from the offside. He often gets into trouble with a block or tie-up that seems so pointless.

[hitmanyr2k]

Diaw is definitely San Antonio's best post player these days and it's not even close. Duncan and Splitter both tend to throw up off-balanced weak shit that look more like prayers than actual shots, especially Duncan. Diaw has the patience to use his footwork and multiple pivots to gather himself for a good shot and his touch around the rim is far better than Duncan or Splitter's.

[TDfan2007]

Timmy hasn't been an elite post player since 2010. His weight loss removed his ability to back down effectively, and his deteriorating left knee pretty much eliminated his jump hook.

There are nights when his knee feels good, and he uses variety in his moves instead of that awkward one-handed handed fallaway, but those are few and far between now.

[TDfan2007]

The best post player on this team is Diaw...and it's not even close.

[TDfan2007]

Diaw is definitely San Antonio's best post player these days and it's not even close. Duncan and Splitter both tend to throw up off-balanced weak shit that look more like prayers than actual shots, especially Duncan. Diaw has the patience to use his footwork and multiple pivots to gather himself for a good shot and his touch around the rim is far better than Duncan or Splitter's.

This.

[apalisoc_9]

Timmy hasn't been an elite post player since 2010. His weight loss removed his ability to back down effectively, and his deteriorating left knee pretty much eliminated his jump hook.

There are nights when his knee feels good, and he uses variety in his moves instead of that awkward one-handed handed fallaway, but those are few and far between now.

You don't know basketball..:madrun

[le13]

You don't know basketball..:madrun

Looooooool you fucking do?????

[Brunodf]

Timmy hasn't been an elite post player since 2010. His weight loss removed his ability to back down effectively, and his deteriorating left knee pretty much eliminated his jump hook.

There are nights when his knee feels good, and he uses variety in his moves instead of that awkward one-handed handed fallaway, but those are few and far between now.
2013

[SpurSwag]

Diaw is our best post player currently, mainly because he usually has mismatches on him and is great at identifying them. Duncan's post game has been pretty ugly at times this year, in fact more often than not. But I'm pretty damn confident in him coming through on the ones that really matter, and ultimately, if its game 7 of the NBA finals, and for some reason we had to dump the ball down into tiago or tim for the final shot, I'm giving it to tim every time. He still has it, just not all the time. However, during this regular season, i've had more faith in kawhi and boris on the block. Idc what the stats say, but i have less confidence in splitter than tim. That's just me.

[heyheymymy]

Its pretty amusing how much he gets his shot blocked.

He gets his shot blocked a lot and imo it is because he just puts/lays weak shit up there too much of the time. It's weird because he has such flair and a developed post game with reverse lay ins and hooks, pumps and moves. If his catalog has such depth, why just lay weak shit up there when you're in the NBA and you know there is talent enough to move in on a weak soft shot attempt.

But I'm not a hater, I'm actually a huge fan of his game and was one of the people waiting since 2007 for him or Scola or both to come through when we were hanging on with Fab etc.

Weird thing, was that I created his player in NBA Live 08 (don't hate I'm a 2k guy now) well before Spurs finally brought him on, I decided to pick # 22 for him. Had no way of knowing and got chills when I saw the promo press conference that day they signed him and he was holding up the jersey with the number on it. I just figured Duncan 2.0 would be 21 + 1 and picked #22 when it asked for a jersey number in the game. Cool story, bro but thought I'd share anyway.

[TDfan2007]

2013

Not really. He was okay in the post that year, but his resurgence came from an improved outside shot and utilizing his faceup game. I'd like to see him face up more this season. Not sure why he went away from it...

[TDfan2007]

Diaw is our best post player currently, mainly because he usually has mismatches on him and is great at identifying them. Duncan's post game has been pretty ugly at times this year, in fact more often than not. But I'm pretty damn confident in him coming through on the ones that really matter, and ultimately, if its game 7 of the NBA finals, and for some reason we had to dump the ball down into tiago or tim for the final shot, I'm giving it to tim every time. He still has it, just not all the time. However, during this regular season, i've had more faith in kawhi and boris on the block. Idc what the stats say, but i have less confidence in splitter than tim. That's just me.

Agreed. He just can't bring it night after night like in his prime. But if I'm going to live/die on a postup, I'm still taking an engaged/relatively healthy Timmy. Probably a homer take, but I don't care...

[Agloco]

he finishes at a relly high rate, idiot

Lol no. Get your head out of your ass.

[PingPong]

Splittah is doing well against good players like Z-Bo and Gasol. Just need to get over himself and finish better against Abaka and the french freak...

[Malik Hairston]

Hopefully he doesn't get drug tested until the off-season, tbh:lol..