We Lack a "Go-To" Finisher. How important is that in the playoffs

[wildbill2u]

I define a "Go-To" Finisher as the player who you want to have the ball in the last minutes/seconds of a close game. He's the clutch player you can rely on to either make a shot, get fouled--and make the FTs, or make the sure pass to an open man when double-teamed. Pick almost any team and you know who their 'Go-To' player is.

At one time, that player on the Spurs was clearly TD. Then Pop shifted the role to Manu and then to Parker. However, this year I don't see these guys being as reliable as in the past and Kwahi doesn't appear to be ready to assume that role yet.

So how does this affect our chances in the playoffs where tight games are more likely than in the regular season. Can the passing game continue to work against stepped up defensive schemes in the final moments?

[marinoman]

Parker I would say has become clutch and with him playing better/being healthy I trust him with the ball down the stretch

[AFBlue]

Depends on the matchup. I think the Spurs are confident in any one of Duncan, Parker, Kawhi, or Ginobili to orchestrate or dominate down the stretch.

[vander]

Diaw. Or if we need a really quick shot, Mills

[313]

Parker I would say has become clutch and with him playing better/being healthy I trust him with the ball down the stretch

[313]

If we need FTs just give it to Danny

[AFBlue]

Diaw. Or if we need a really quick shot, Mills

Thought about including Diaw legitimately in my initial response, because he has the ability to take advantage of mismatches and make the right play. Not sure the Spurs see him on the level of the other four, but it seems they should based on his recent play.

[Russ]

If the Spurs lose in the playoffs, that probably won't be the reason.

"Go to" finishers are a double-edged sword. If they're off, you're cooked.

The Spurs depend on defense and ball movement. No "go to" since Manu in '05.

[Godbama]

Bring Back T-Mac!

[Blizzardwizard]

This is the exact same Spurs team that won the championship last year. If those players won it last year they can damn well win it again this year.

[vander]

... And next year and the year after that?

[Obstructed_View]

Quotes in the wrong place. The Spurs lack "a" go-to finisher. Now you can sleep better.

[Seventyniner]

This is the exact same Spurs team that won the championship last year. If those players won it last year they can damn well win it again this year.

[024]

I think the Spurs just have to run those set plays well all the time including clutch situations. Always a hard thing to do but it's possible (see last year). Ginobili will probably be the one running isos in clutch situations when needed. Maybe Parker if he keeps regaining his speed.

[taps]

No "go to" since Manu in '05.

Tim outscored Manu that season by 2 points in the RS (& Finals) & by 3 points in the Playoffs. Tony Parker outscored Manu in the RS by 0.6 points that season. 14 rpg in Finals it was fucking domination by Tim. Tony has definitely sniffed Manu's scoring #'s from '05.

I've wondered what it is about that season that gets people so randy for Manu. IMO: White dunker, coming off biggest Olympic Bball upset ever. Also, maybe ppl weren't used to having somebody w/in a few points of Tim's scoring average. And it was Manu's best season by far he was certainly great.
Even we who appreciate Tim underrate him. One thing about that season is it's probly the best 2nd option (scoring) we've seen in a Spurs champ squad.

tl;dr: gtfo Tim was the '05 go-to

[baseline bum]

They didn't have one last year either.

[hater]

Mills is so fucking awful this season

[hater]

They didn't have one last year either.

http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/LaFerrari007.jpg

[dabom]

Tim and Manu.

[dabom]

Fucking casuals.

[boutons_deux]

Team play is always the Spurs's goto, as seen in '13, '14 Finals

[RD2191]

Parker I would say has become clutch and with him playing better/being healthy I trust him with the ball down the stretch
http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Ray-Liotta-Laughing-In-Goodfellas-Gif.gif

[Robz4000]

They literally have to do it by committee:

-Need someone to hit their FTs? Give it to Green.

-Need a shot? Give it to Parker.

-Need a facilitator? Give it to Manu.

-Need someone to create from the post? Diaw or Duncan.

-Need a defensive stop from the perimeter? Kawhi.

-Need a stop one-on-one? Green for PGs, Splitter for mobile bigs.

-Need a stop in the post? Duncan.

etc., etc.

[cjw]

One thing about that season is it's probly the best 2nd option (scoring) we've seen in a Spurs champ squad.

Over 20 ppg during the postseason run, which bested what the Admiral did during the 99 title run (though when Duncan was hurt the next year, Admiral had to put up 20 shots a game during the sweep).

Parker had four straight postseasons of 20+ while shooting around 50%. But Boobie Gibson was probably guarding him all 55 of those games.

[Clipper Nation]

Parker I would say has become clutch and with him playing better/being healthy I trust him with the ball down the stretch


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

[dabom]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

:lmao


























:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[apalisoc_9]

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Ray-Liotta-Laughing-In-Goodfellas-Gif.gif

:lmao

[SASdynasty!]

Parker I would say has become clutch and with him playing better/being healthy I trust him with the ball down the stretch
Yah last year Parker was one of the best clutch players in the league, if not the best by far. Look at his efficiency in those situations. Off the freaking charts:

http://www.82games.com/1314/CSORT11.HTM

[dabom]

Yah last year Parker was one of the best clutch players in the league, if not the best by far. Look at his efficiency in those situations. Off the freaking charts:

http://www.82games.com/1314/CSORT11.HTM

Regular season stats. :lmao

[Johnny RIngo]

Parker I would say has become clutch and with him playing better/being healthy I trust him with the ball down the stretch

I thought this was a topic about post-season basketball?

[Old School 44]

The beauty of the Spurs is their versatility, and like LeBron said during last year's Finals "everyone's live"...meaning everyone on the floor can hurt you, so you have to account for everyone. With all the movement/passing, one missed assignment/rotation gets the defense scrambling and the Spurs are either looking at a shot right at the rim or an open 3.

Ginobili or Parker, for the most part, will iniatate the offense in the final possessions of close games, but who takes the final shot??? Your guess, and the opponents guess, is as good as mine.

[SASdynasty!]

Regular season stats. :lmao
Oh sorry here are his playoff ones from last year...even better:

http://bkref.com/tiny/qHLhy

[dabom]

Now look at plus/minus for the team

http://www.82games.com/1314/CSORT4.HTM

kawhi diaw manu duncan all ahead of tony. Funny cause tony always plays with those guys during close games. All other players play with bench players at one point or another. Parker with starter teammates sucks tbh.

[K...]

I was gonna say....there was an apo thread about this a month ago that devolved in to a Parker thread, but I though who wants to read that, but then.....

[marinoman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_n5E7feJHw0

lol, ima steal that response for future situations, but for now

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/072011/1310121676_angry_wrestler.gif

[K...]

Now look at plus/minus for the team

http://www.82games.com/1314/CSORT4.HTM

kawhi diaw manu duncan all ahead of tony. Funny cause tony always plays with those guys during close games. All other players play with bench players at one point or another. Parker with starter teammates sucks tbh.

Oh so the committee theory is the winner....lot's of clutch guys in this team if the situation is right

[dabom]

Oh sorry here are his playoff ones from last year...even better:

http://bkref.com/tiny/bUPzd

8/13 shots. in 6 games. :lmao

[SASdynasty!]

Now look at plus/minus for the team

http://www.82games.com/1314/CSORT4.HTM

kawhi diaw manu duncan all ahead of tony. Funny cause tony always plays with those guys during close games. All other players play with bench players at one point or another. Parker with starter teammates sucks tbh.
Hahahahaha
"Tony's not clutch"
Season stats posted showing him as one of the most clutch players in the league (if not the most) last year.
"But that's the regular season"
Playoff stats posted showing him as one of the most clutch players in the playoffs (if not the most) last year.
"But look at how the rest of the team had a better plus/minus"

You're starting to seem downright pathetic bro. That was one of the worst cases of deflection I've even seen.

[marinoman]

I thought parker made lots of key shots last year and some good ones in the finals 2 years ago

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2808475/parker3.gif

http://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/parker1.gif?w=1000

[SASdynasty!]

8/13 shots. in 6 games. :lmao
Which was 4th most in the entire league and far more than any other Spurs player. Are you really this dumb?

...actually I'm starting to think you don't understand the stat now by the way you are referencing 6 games.

[dabom]

I thought parker made lots of key shots last year and some good ones in the finals 2 years ago

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2808475/parker3.gif

http://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/parker1.gif?w=1000


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBImEYGzAXY

:lmao

[dabom]

Which was 4th most in the entire league and far more than any other Spurs player. Are you really this dumb?

...actually I'm starting to think you don't understand the stat now by the way you are referencing 6 games.

Still a tiny sample size nonetheless. :lmao

[RD2191]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBImEYGzAXY

:lmao
:lmao

[marinoman]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uBImEYGzAXY

:lmao
you're right 5.2 seconds, full length of the court, tough shot, and he missed, what a choker! And as we all know clutch means you never miss shots down the stretch

[downunder]

Mills needs more time.

[dabom]

you're right 5.2 seconds, full length of the court, tough shot, and he missed, what a choker! And as we all know clutch means you never miss shots down the stretch

Don't cry like a bitch when u post a gif and someone posts a video. :lmao

[marinoman]

Don't cry like a bitch when u post a gif and someone posts a video. :lmao
not crying, just think your argument is weak, you retort to clutch shots with one tough abeit key miss. No ones upset, just saying. We both want the same thing here (Spurs success) we just think there are different ways in acheiving it

[dabom]

not crying, just think your argument is weak, you retort to clutch shots with one tough abeit key miss. No ones upset, just saying. We both want the same same thing here (Spurs success) we just think there are different ways in acheiving it

We want the same thing. Just don't call tony clutch cause he ain't. There's lots of definitions for clutch. Mine ain't 5 mins left to go in the fourth neither team ahead by 5 points.
My definition for clutch is the whole 48 mins in a playoff game count as clutch minutes. Turning the ball over like crazy or shooting the team out of it only to be carried by said team to a "4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points" scenario is fucking stupid. Sitting out at the end of games cause your hammy doesn't feel fine. :lmao

[PingPong]

(Ferrari)

Fagnelli knows he isn't exactly a Ferrari. Visited the german owned Lambo headquarters. :D

http://i.imgur.com/fOeKi70.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/4gaB1AT.jpg

[will_spurs]

http://i.imgur.com/oY7dLEL.png

This looks like yet another interesting thread...

[RD2191]

lol faggot

[SASdynasty!]

We want the same thing. Just don't call tony clutch cause he ain't. There's lots of definitions for clutch. Mine ain't 5 mins left to go in the fourth neither team ahead by 5 points.
My definition for clutch is the whole 48 mins in a playoff game count as clutch minutes. Turning the ball over like crazy or shooting the team out of it only to be carried by said team to a "4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points" scenario is fucking stupid. Sitting out at the end of games cause your hammy doesn't feel fine. :lmao


Lol, so basically the word clutch doesn't mean "performance at the end of a close game," but the first few minutes of the 2nd quarter of a blowout. Why don't you just use another word then?

[SASdynasty!]

Still a tiny sample size nonetheless. :lmao
How many shots do you expect each player to be taking in clutch situations during a playoff run? 50?!? Even Lebron had less shots than Parker during clutch time last playoffs. That's actually a pretty good sample size for those parameters. It's ok bro, Parker was by far the most clutch shooter on the Spurs statistically last year (both regular season and playoffs) and he has a really good argument to be considered the most clutch player in the league (unbelievable efficiency in those situations with near-the-top volume numbers).

[baseline bum]

http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Ray-Liotta-Laughing-In-Goodfellas-Gif.gif

Damn I didn't realize they even had Goodellas in Mexico. Are you able to flush the toilet paper yet?

[Johnny RIngo]

I'm not sure how relevant clutch stats are pertaining to our run last year. Spurs outscored their opponents in the playoffs by 214 points, the largest margin in NBA history. We blew teams out in most of our wins so it never really needed to come down to the wire. The majority of Parker's "clutch" shots that SASDynasty loves to reference(7 of the 8 shots) came against a shitty 8th seeded Mavs team - a series that never should have been close in the first place if Parker had played better through the first three quarters of those games.

The most important game in our playoff run last year was the OT game 6 against the Thunder - a game that Parker checked himself out of. Lot of clutch moments in that one. Strange that our "most clutch player" wasn't a part of that win.

[ElNono]

Is the OP a new fan, tbh? When the season is on the line, it's gonna be the usual: ball in Manu's hands, let him create and hope for the best. If he's on his game, we're getting #6, if he's not in his game, we're getting a long summer.

[Hoops Czar]

Is the OP a new fan, tbh? When the season is on the line, it's gonna be the usual: ball in Manu's hands, let him create and hope for the best. If he's on his game, we're getting #6, if he's not in his game, we're getting a long summer.

I think it's a little more complicated than that.

[Hoops Czar]

We want the same thing. Just don't call tony clutch cause he ain't. There's lots of definitions for clutch. Mine ain't 5 mins left to go in the fourth neither team ahead by 5 points.
My definition for clutch is the whole 48 mins in a playoff game count as clutch minutes. Turning the ball over like crazy or shooting the team out of it only to be carried by said team to a "4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points" scenario is fucking stupid. Sitting out at the end of games cause your hammy doesn't feel fine. :lmao



Yes, because making shots in a 25 point blowout is clutch, smh.

[MultiTroll]

... And next year and the year after that?
These modern day PEDs who knows?!

[z0sa]

The Spurs rely on ball movement and feeding the hot hand. It worked last season, and it's gonna need to be effective again this season considering we're probably facing at least 3 rounds of the playoffs on the road... maybe all of them.

[MultiTroll]

Is the OP a new fan, tbh? When the season is on the line, it's gonna be the usual: ball in Manu's hands, let him create and hope for the best. If he's on his game, we're getting #6, if he's not in his game, we're getting a long summer.
Are you a new fan? He was the Miami Heats MVP in Game 6 and has had similar turnover problems at the end of many a game.
We don't "have" to have a 50/50 bipolar Manu with the ball in his hands at the end of every close game.
That is a CIA Popped loser strategy.
TEAM ball is what won in 2014. It's what is going to win or not in 2015 also.
The opponent not knowing who is going to have the last shot = way more effective then a locked in choice.

[RD2191]

Damn I didn't realize they even had Goodellas in Mexico. Are you able to flush the toilet paper yet?
Que es toilet paper?

[cantthinkofanything]

Que es toilet paper?Bend over wetback. I'll show you.

[RD2191]

Bend over wetback. I'll show you.
No senor. Mi no bend over. Mi bend your wife over.

[cantthinkofanything]

No senor. Mi no bend over. Mi bend your wife over.As long as you leave some dinero on her back.

[RD2191]

As long as you leave some dinero on her back.
100 pesos

[Mel_13]

When the season is on the line, it's gonna be the usual: ball in Manu's hands, let him create and hope for the best.

This.

[Mikeanaro]

100 pesos
Lol thats generous, is she worthy?

[Mikeanaro]

Manu is the man, always was and always will thats your Go-To guy.

[look_at_g_shred]

lol are you serious bruh? The past 3 seasons we've been fine.

[ElNono]

I think it's a little more complicated than that.

Not really.

[ElNono]

Are you a new fan? He was the Miami Heats MVP in Game 6 and has had similar turnover problems at the end of many a game.
We don't "have" to have a 50/50 bipolar Manu with the ball in his hands at the end of every close game.
That is a CIA Popped loser strategy.
TEAM ball is what won in 2014. It's what is going to win or not in 2015 also.
The opponent not knowing who is going to have the last shot = way more effective then a locked in choice.

Exactly what I said. He was not on his game in 2013, and we lost. He was on his game in 2014, he had the season in his hands a couple times (ie: the 3 pointer against OKC, go take a look at TD's jumper on that game too, who ran the play), and we won.
If everybody is playing well, we're rolling and we can win games by a bunch of points, then we won't need a "go-to" finisher.

But if we do need one, you know where Pop is going.

[dabom]

Elnono with the goods. Thb

[tholdren]

I define a "Go-To" Finisher as the player who you want to have the ball in the last minutes/seconds of a close game. He's the clutch player you can rely on to either make a shot, get fouled--and make the FTs, or make the sure pass to an open man when double-teamed. Pick almost any team and you know who their 'Go-To' player is.

At one time, that player on the Spurs was clearly TD. Then Pop shifted the role to Manu and then to Parker. However, this year I don't see these guys being as reliable as in the past and Kwahi doesn't appear to be ready to assume that role yet.

So how does this affect our chances in the playoffs where tight games are more likely than in the regular season. Can the passing game continue to work against stepped up defensive schemes in the final moments?

It's extremely important. You have to be able to stop runs and play the clock - which is a little different than the regular season.

You have to be able to beat someone down in the post and get guaranteed points either at the line or in the paint. It is a good sign that boris is back to showing signs of his crafty self the past few games on the block. KL has to back people down, and more importantly hit the FTs at the line. With all that said, I still feel like SA can beat anyone in a series.

[dabom]

Kawhi definitely got the defensive stops tbh.

[baseline bum]

Que es toilet paper?

El papel de shito para ser sincero

[baseline bum]

But if we do need one, you know where Pop is going.

Seems like it has been a lot of Belinelli tbh

[Brunodf]

Good thing we had one last season, oh wait...

[SpurSwag]

Obviously the system is our go to finisher in most cases, as in if we are down 3 it won't just be give the ball to manu or something and let him get a 3 but it'll be a series of screens to get any number of players (manu, kawhi, danny, marco, patty, etc) open for a shot. However, in a scenario where there is like 5 seconds left in a tie game (meaning pop will want someone to without a doubt get the last shot with no time left) then I'm pretty sure it'll go to Manu or Tony (usually Manu). I'm confident in either's ability to create space and get a nice midrange J or get to the rim, and it really depends on who is being guarded by who and which has had the hotter shooting hand.

[Arcadian]

It's not always Manu. Most opposing teams are well aware of the fact that Manu has been our closer for over a decade now, so they're not necessarily going to let him catch the ball on a final possession. In those situations, Pop rarely draws a play "for Manu." He draws a play with multiple options, and whoever is the most open gets to take the shot. That's the new Spurs paradigm: the "closer" is whoever happens to be in the right place at the right time. Nobody gets to decide that, though - it depends on the subtle interplay between what the Spurs do and how the opposing team reacts to it. In a sense, randomness "decides" who gets the last shot. And that's the beauty of the Spurs system: it dynamically adapts, in real time, to the situation as it unfolds in order to arrive at the correct decision.

[Sean Cagney]

Team play is always the Spurs's goto, as seen in '13, '14 Finals

^^^^^^

[ElNono]

It's not always Manu. Most opposing teams are well aware of the fact that Manu has been our closer for over a decade now, so they're not necessarily going to let him catch the ball on a final possession. In those situations, Pop rarely draws a play "for Manu." He draws a play with multiple options, and whoever is the most open gets to take the shot. That's the new Spurs paradigm: the "closer" is whoever happens to be in the right place at the right time. Nobody gets to decide that, though - it depends on the subtle interplay between what the Spurs do and how the opposing team reacts to it. In a sense, randomness "decides" who gets the last shot. And that's the beauty of the Spurs system: it dynamically adapts, in real time, to the situation as it unfolds in order to arrive at the correct decision.

If it's a play out of a timeout, then it'll likely be a highly choreographed play for any of the big 3 or a designated shooter if we need a 3 pointer. Pop is one of the best in the business out of a timeout. In general, though, it will be Manu handling the rock and making decisions. He doesn't necessarily will be the one to finish the play, but it'll be up to him to come up with something for himself or somebody else. Obviously, if Manu is having a poor game, Pop might decide to go somewhere else, but generally speaking, Manu is his go-to playmaker when the stakes are high.

[ElNono]

As far as the 'team game' thing, sure. You want the team to play at a high level every game, all blowouts, and you don't have to worry about this. But even last playoffs, with all the high-margin wins and all, we were in a bunch of closes games, be it against Dallas in the 1st round, OKC in the Conference Finals, or even Game 2 in the Finals.

[tholdren]

:lmao

Bad shot selection sure, but 5 seconds to get from one end to another and shoot a runner against a 7 footer and a 6-8 guy chasing you the length of the court, what do you expect. Not like he was on the line bricking uncontested foul shots. Those would be the real chokers.

Lebron choked worse and more often during the final few minutes of that game - multiple turnovers and multiple misses WITHOUT the time running down.

That video is as stupid as saying someone choked for missing a full court heave at the buzzer.

dumb

[MultiTroll]

Exactly what I said. He was not on his game in 2013, and we lost. He was on his game in 2014, he had the season in his hands a couple times (ie: the 3 pointer against OKC, go take a look at TD's jumper on that game too, who ran the play), and we won.
Game 3 vs Mavs. Series tied 1-1.
In another collosal brain fart moment, with the Spurs ahead by two, he tries to do Hero Ball defense and goes for a steal on the inbounds. Misses. This lets Vince Carter juke him into the paratroopers club. With Hero Manu safely flailing in the air, Vince steps back and drains the trey. Could have been a series losing trey. Thankfully we came back and won in 7.

[Silver&Black]

We don't need a "Go-To" Finisher in the playoffs.....

We're winning every game by 20+ IMO.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Fools worrying about "go-to" finishers when SA's M.O. the past few years has been killing teams in waves using ball movement/riding the hot hand.

[DMC]

Typically what the Spurs need is someone to protect the ball and get to the FT line. In the past that was Manu late in games, when other teams were playing the quick foul game hoping to gain a point per foul. Now days It's hard to trust any of them on the FT line in crunch time. The best FT shooters aren't great ball handlers now, which is opposite of what most teams have.

One thing we know for sure, Kawhi isn't a closer, not at the line. He might become one if he ever shakes the oogie boogies at the FT line in "must hit" situations, but so far it doesn't look too good. I'd piss him off then have him shoot the FTs.

[jag]

http://i.imgur.com/oY7dLEL.png

This looks like yet another interesting thread...

:lol exactly

[wildbill2u]

Typically what the Spurs need is someone to protect the ball and get to the FT line. In the past that was Manu late in games, when other teams were playing the quick foul game hoping to gain a point per foul. Now days It's hard to trust any of them on the FT line in crunch time. The best FT shooters aren't great ball handlers now, which is opposite of what most teams have.

One thing we know for sure, Kawhi isn't a closer, not at the line. He might become one if he ever shakes the oogie boogies at the FT line in "must hit" situations, but so far it doesn't look too good. I'd piss him off then have him shoot the FTs.

You have synthesized the concerns I had and the reason I started this thread. I wanted to see where it would go.

1. It's clear to me that we haven't been able, for whatever reason, to work the passing game and overall team play nearly as well this year. There are times when our offense just stagnates, sometimes with passes that don't seem to have any effect or point. And so I expect to see more closely fought playoff games instead of blow outs. You very seldom see a playoff series where every game is a blowout. Thinking that our average winning margin last year means we didn't have a few close games where control of the final minutes wasn't important is too simplistic.

2. Manu is shooting FTs at the worst percentage of his entire career, dropping from the 80s to 72%. Parker doesn't seem to be in total control of his body, stumbling around, falling down, dribbling off his shoes, being stripped of the ball in the 4th quarter of games. I think his hamstring injury is still limiting his play.

3. Kwahi is obviously trying to do too much on offense at times. He's not a natural shooter and sometimes gets the jitters at the FT line at times when a made FT wins the game. The future isn't necessarily now.

4. I'm not so worried about a final shot with seconds to go. Pop is the master in the NBA at diagramming plays to get a good game-winning shot from either a first, second or third option. Most coaches simply go with a first option but Pop is clever enough to realize that opposing coaches can often figure out a first option and the way to stop it--but they then leave themselves open to the second or third. Again Manu is probably out best option for one final go-to since he can recognize and pull off the second option pass.

[100%duncan]

I'd still give it to Manu tbh

[ElNono]

Game 3 vs Mavs. Series tied 1-1.
In another collosal brain fart moment, with the Spurs ahead by two, he tries to do Hero Ball defense and goes for a steal on the inbounds. Misses. This lets Vince Carter juke him into the paratroopers club. With Hero Manu safely flailing in the air, Vince steps back and drains the trey. Could have been a series losing trey. Thankfully we came back and won in 7.

Didn't he made the basket to put us up 2 in that game?... And Vince made a contested 3 from the corner, that stuff just happens. If the Spurs don't wanna be in the position, then they need to play better. Manu and Tiago were actually the top 2 players in that series, if not for them, we're out in the 1st round again. Hopefully Manu is in his game this season again.

[DMC]

Manu is the most active player on the team, he's basically at RW level activity when he's on the court except he's heads and shoulders above RW in IQ and decision making. That means Manu will have a disproportionately high per minute stat rate, even if that stat is turnovers. He's not on the court to fill minutes, but to make things happen. He either makes the difference in the positive or makes it in the negative, but he makes it. Without him, you're just a momentum waiting to die.

[MultiTroll]

And Vince made a contested 3 from the corner, that stuff just happens.
Dude, going for a steal and failing is beyond Basketball IQ retarded when UP 2 with less then 5 seconds remaining and defending an inbounds pass.
Tell you did not just write that. :lmao

A "contested" trey
The reason Vinces' shot was mildly contested is because would-be stealer Manu was wayy out of position after flubbing on the steal.

[SASdynasty!]

Bad shot selection sure, but 5 seconds to get from one end to another and shoot a runner against a 7 footer and a 6-8 guy chasing you the length of the court, what do you expect. Not like he was on the line bricking uncontested foul shots. Those would be the real chokers.

Lebron choked worse and more often during the final few minutes of that game - multiple turnovers and multiple misses WITHOUT the time running down.

That video is as stupid as saying someone choked for missing a full court heave at the buzzer.

dumb
Bro, these guys ride the short bus. I honestly am shocked daily at what they try to use to discredit MVParker.

[ElNono]

Dude, going for a steal and failing is beyond Basketball IQ retarded when UP 2 with less then 5 seconds remaining and defending an inbounds pass.
Tell you did not just write that. :lmao

A "contested" trey
The reason Vinces' shot was mildly contested is because would-be stealer Manu was wayy out of position after flubbing on the steal.

Here's the play...

hNy8dQNcf2w

:lol how is Manu "wayy out of position"...

He hit it with Manu all over him... it happens. You don't want to be in that situation? play better the rest of the game.

[MultiTroll]

Here's the play...
:lol how is Manu "wayy out of position"...

He hit it with Manu all over him... it happens. You don't want to be in that situation? play better the rest of the game.
Easy. Notice how when the inbounder releases the ball Manu lunges at the ball with his left hand, arm, fark whole body. His resulting momentum carries him towards the sideline. NOT towoards Vince. Why is this important? Hello, the Spurs are up by two. They cannot be beaten save by a trey. Manu now gathers himself and goes up too early.
Vince sensed all of this. Waits for Manu to reach the peak of his jump and then Manu descends to the floor. Its at this point, once Manu is back down on the floor, that Vince, having stepped back away from Manu, launches.
And yes Vince practices this and someone showed a link to such and other game footage when Vince has taken advantage of Paratroopers Club joiners.

Manu was not "all over Vince".
Describe to me where Manu is when Vince releases the ball.
To the contrary, when the ball was inbounds Manu should have been "all over" Vince and not gone for the stupid steal attempt.
Vince would have been much more contested.
The best view is the final one where the camera is at the Spurs end of the court. IIRC the game had even better angles that this YouTube does not show.

[ElNono]

Easy. Notice how when the inbounder releases the ball Manu lunges at the ball with his left hand, arm, fark whole body. His resulting momentum carries him towards the sideline. NOT towoards Vince. Why is this important? Hello, the Spurs are up by two. They cannot be beaten save by a trey. Manu now gathers himself and goes up too early.
Vince sensed all of this. Waits for Manu to reach the peak of his jump and then Manu descends to the floor. Its at this point, once Manu is back down on the floor, that Vince, having stepped back away from Manu, launches.
And yes Vince practices this and someone showed a link to such and other game footage when Vince has taken advantage of Paratroopers Club joiners.

Manu was not "all over Vince".
To the contrary, when the ball was inbounds Manu should have been "all over" Vince and not gone for the stupid steal attempt.
Vince would have been much more contested.
The best view is the final one where the camera is at the Spurs end of the court. IIRC the game had even better angles that this YouTube does not show.

This is hindsight speaking, Fabbs. Manu challenged the shot, he was as close as he could possibly be without fouling (now THAT is something you don't want to do in that situation), and Vince made a hell of a shot. Manu can't be jumping towards Vince without fouling him. That's not what you want. Heck, Vince even double-clutches before taking the shot, because Manu was all over him. That's why posting the video is worth more than words.

[ElNono]

But since this is a thread about go-to finisher... didn't he made the basket to put us up 2 in that game, Fabbs? I never got a response to this...

[MultiTroll]

This is hindsight speaking, Fabbs. Manu challenged the shot, he was as close as he could possibly be without fouling (now THAT is something you don't want to do in that situation), and Vince made a hell of a shot. Manu can't be jumping towards Vince without fouling him. That's not what you want. Heck, Vince even double-clutches before taking the shot, because Manu was all over him. That's why posting the video is worth more than words.
But it's not hindsight. Basketball 101 is when you are up by 2, with (what was it 1.8 seconds left? :lmao ), you cannot be beaten by a two.
Tell me where Manu is when Vince releases the ball. There is your answer. Manu has both feet on the floor, because he just landed.
You are refusing to acknowledge this.

He is no where close to being "all over" Vince. It was and is a stupid gamble on Manus part, hardly his 1st. For farks sake he had just given what most feel is a Championship in 2006 and then a sure Championship in 2013 thanks to his stupid continual turnovers and Coach Brain Deads end of game strategies. Not a student of the game. Not one who watches tape of his own f ups and makes adjustments. Many many a great play? Absolutely. Many many. we are talking about this one in closure status as the OP asks.

[MultiTroll]

But since this is a thread about go-to finisher... didn't he made the basket to put us up 2 in that game, Fabbs? I never got a response to this...
I believe you. I don't remember.

[ElNono]

But it's not hindsight. Basketball 101 is when you are up by 2, with (what was it 1.8 seconds left? :lmao ), you cannot be beaten by a two.
Tell me where Manu is when Vince releases the ball. There is your answer. Manu has both feet on the floor, because he just landed.
You are refusing to acknowledge this.

He is no where close to being "all over" Vince. It was and is a stupid gamble on Manus part, hardly his 1st. For farks sake he had just given what most feel is a Championship in 2006 and then a sure Championship in 2013 thanks to his stupid continual turnovers and Coach Brain Deads end of game strategies. Not a student of the game. Not one who watches tape of his own f ups and makes adjustments. Many many a great play? Absolutely. Many many. we are talking about this one in closure status as the OP asks.

Vince double-clutched to get Manu up in the air, it's right there in the video. He then hit a tough shot from the corner. That's a good move by Vince. He's also a savvy vet.

This idea that when you lose, somebody always did something wrong, especially when it comes to one single play, it's silly. The Spurs lost that game by playing like shit for most of the 48 mins. If anything, Manu and Tiago tried to hero out a win, but they couldn't pull it off.

[MultiTroll]

Vince double-clutched to get Manu up in the air, it's right there in the video.
Thank you for yet another Basketball 101 basic strategy. Don't leave your feet until the shooter does.
Don't go for the 1st pump in that position.
Given by the time Vince got the ball and turned to shoot there was like 1.0 second left.
Do not leave your feet Manu until Vince has left his.
Basic.

Regardless, the stupid steal attempt left him wayy out of position.
Period.

[MultiTroll]

If anything, Manu and Tiago tried to hero out a win, but they couldn't pull it off.
aka as going out of Team Mode.
aka losing strategy.

Now you're getting it.

[ElNono]

Thank you for yet another Basketball 101 basic strategy. Don't leave your feet until the shooter does.
Don't go for the 1st pump in that position.
Given by the time Vince got the ball and turned to shoot there was like 1.0 second left.
Do not leave your feet Manu until Vince has left his.
Basic.

Regardless, the stupid steal attempt left him wayy out of position.
Period.

There's not "strategy" other than contest the shot, which he did. We got into that position due to only two guys showing up to play that game.


aka as going out of Team Mode.
aka losing strategy.

Now you're getting it.

There's no "going out of" anything, Fabbs. That's what you don't get. Sometimes the other team makes you play a different way. There's matchups and good coaches. Sometimes you get outplayed.

We're not playing against ourselves. We're playing against good teams.

[MultiTroll]

There's not "strategy" other than contest the shot, which he did. We got into that position due to only two guys showing up to play that game.



There's no "going out of" anything, Fabbs. That's what you don't get. Sometimes the other team makes you play a different way. There's matchups and good coaches. Sometimes you get outplayed.

We're not playing against ourselves. We're playing against good teams.
I'm still willing to work with you, Pop and Manu but it's grade time.

Best stategy to defend a jump shot is to be flat on your feet while shooter is at apex lauching ball. Got it. F
Going out of team ball and trying to be hero is not beating yourself. F
Manu was playing against himself in Miami Game 6. F Miami did not "take it to" nor outplay the Spurs. The Spurs gave it to them. Something even a dead parrot knows.

[ElNono]

I'm still willing to work with you, Pop and Manu but it's grade time.

Best stategy to defend a jump shot is to be flat on your feet while shooter is at apex lauching ball. Got it. F
Going out of team ball and trying to be hero is not beating yourself. F
Manu was playing against himself in Miami Game 6. F Miami did not "take it to" nor outplay the Spurs. The Spurs gave it to them. Something even a dead parrot knows.

Didn't address one point in my post: F

Still love you Fabbs, but the capt hindsight stuff you pull off is too easy. Under your view, the Spurs continually beat themselves, the other teams don't matter. It very rarely is like that.

What you expect is perfection, and no team is like that, including the Spurs. There will be misfires here or there, that's just part of the game.

[MultiTroll]

:lol putting the most basic of strategies to work requires perfection?
No.
No. at. all.

[DMC]

Funny how people with low personal standards have such high expectations of others.

[ElNono]

:lol putting the most basic of strategies to work requires perfection?
No.
No. at. all.

:lol when we lose the "strategy" is all wrong, everything is in doubt.

Come on, if Manu misses that 3 pointer against OKC, Tim misses the turnaround jumper or Kawhi doesn't steal the ball from Westbrook, this is another thread about "failed basic strategies" :lol

Hindsight is always 20/20. The Spurs are not above making mistakes, but looking at the field, they're damn good at minimizing them.

[Mel_13]

Fabbs being Fabbs. Just can't post as Fabbs.

[MultiTroll]

:lol when we lose the "strategy" is all wrong, everything is in doubt.
Wrong again. F
Sometimes the other team just outplays the Spurs.

[LakerHater]

Yeah, that towards the end of the 3rd period with a Mills, Green, Belli, Bobo & Baynes line up was bad!

[ElNono]

Wrong again. F
Sometimes the other team just outplays the Spurs.

So who's the A team that never makes mistakes? There's no such team.

[RD2191]

So who's the A team that never makes mistakes? There's no such team.
I really liked the B team tonight, tbh.

[MultiTroll]

So who's the A team that never makes mistakes? There's no such team.
Hey i'd love to hear more of your philosophizing but we are getting off thread track.
Speaking of philosophizing, did you see the 1st Zoolander and did you know Zoolander 2 is being made as we speak?

[ElNono]

Hey i'd love to hear more of your philosophizing but we are getting off thread track.
Speaking of philosophizing, did you see the 1st Zoolander and did you know Zoolander 2 is being made as we speak?

yes and yes. tbh, the 1st one is a GOAT movie, tbh

[MultiTroll]

yes and yes. tbh, the 1st one is a GOAT movie, tbh
Some magazine, hopefully just Hollywood bullshit, but it said Will Ferell is friends with Kuntye Kardashian and those two skanks are trying to get a cameo in the move thru Will.

I don't want those two bacteria in the movie in any way, shape or form.

[ElNono]

Some magazine, hopefully just Hollywood bullshit, but it said Will Ferell is friends with Kuntye Kardashian and those two skanks are trying to get a cameo in the move thru Will.

I don't want those two bacteria in the movie in any way, shape or form.

JLjyvzMCQaY

[Phenomanul]

Fabbs being Fabbs. Just can't post as Fabbs.

:lol :tu

[therealtruth]

Kawhi picking up the aggressiveness at times was just as important as team play.

[G-Dawgg]

Belinelli is the one with the big balls on this team. He could go 1/10 in any given game then still hit a game winner... I also still trust Manu and Duncan to take the last shot of the game. Parker or Kawhi not so much....

[Seventyniner]

Didn't address one point in my post: F

Still love you Fabbs, but the capt hindsight stuff you pull off is too easy. Under your view, the Spurs continually beat themselves, the other teams don't matter. It very rarely is like that.

What you expect is perfection, and no team is like that, including the Spurs. There will be misfires here or there, that's just part of the game.

You just described 75% of the board. At least by post volume.

[MultiTroll]

The Spurs rely on ball movement and feeding the hot hand. It worked last season, and it's gonna need to be effective again this season considering we're probably facing at least 3 rounds of the playoffs on the road... maybe all of them.
This "It must be Manu iso at the end" is utter bullshit.
Damn near cost us again tonite.
Turnobili 2013 - present is not the same guy the previous dozen years.

[ElNono]

This "It must be Manu iso at the end is utter bullshit."
Damn near cost us again tonite.

Shouldn't have been, I agree with that. But Pop wouldn't even call a timeout and set up a play.

I expect Pop to do that in the playoffs.