kolko
09-05-2005, 01:21 PM
Talks about drafting Manu and Scola.
Rob Meurs is respected as one of the top International scouts in the NBA having worked in the business for 17 years. Meurs worked 7 years for the Golden State Warriors, 7 years with the San Antonio Spurs, and is now in his third year with the New Jersey Nets. Meurs also runs his own scouting service for American college teams. When it comes to International basketball, Meurs has a handle on the European and International scene like few others.
NDN: You are credited with drafting Manu Ginobili; how did you spot him when so many others missed?
RM: Well it's not fair to say that I'm credited for it; it was a team effort, also Buford and the other people in the staff there with the Spurs being involved with it. I'm just a small part of it... I saw him for the first time I think with the Junior National Team; not thinking about drafting him; just scouting all the players.
After some years, you see some players getting better than the others, that's when you make decisions whether you are going to follow them or not. I saw him playing in the Pan-Am games, in the Caribbean, and in the Australia Under 22 World Championships, where he was actually not the best player on the team. So we'd seem him a lot.
NDN: And there was actually a coin flip involved?
RM: We didn't know who to choose, it was Victoriano or Ginobili, because at the time Victoriano was actually the better player. He played really well for the National Team, then later on went over to Spain and had a decent career. But, we really didn't know there was that big of an upside with Ginobili.
We liked him because he was athletic and he was playing hard. That was about it. And you look at him now, and he's a great defensive player. For instance, he's a very creative player. Then you know he was actually kind of a selfish gunner, and you know he's very athletic. He was running the floor up and down, so, I can even say we took a gamble on him because at the time we had no idea. Nobody knew; not even him (laughs).
After we drafted him, I think the biggest thing that happened was that he went to Bologna. With the coaching staff, it was the perfect situation for him. The way they played, with a rotation of four or five guards, that all play the same position. The thing is he's from a real basketball background; his two brothers played professional ball. His father's a coach; his mother was a coach, and you go there, and they only talk about basketball. They eat, they drink, they sleep basketball and it's all about those 3 kids. We actually didn't know that when we drafted him. But, later on, we found out about the whole background and where he came from, was a big influence on him and also helped him to develop into what he is nowadays.
And when I thought he was REALLY good, I really remember that. It was when they played the finals against Sienna in the Italian Cup for league. In the end of the game, it was a close game, he grabbed an offensive board with 5 - 6 seconds to go, and instead of pulling it up himself and trying to force the game, which is normally what he would do, he just grabbed the rebound, he knew where Rigadeau was on the baseline, like 15 - 16 feet away from the basket, and Rigadeau was a great shooter, and he passed the ball, and Rigadeau hit the winning basket on the buzzer, but I thought it was play of Ginobili, and I wrote down at that time "I think he's ready".
NDN: Give a little background on how you got into scouting and your background in basketball.
RM: I'm 50 now, and I think I started when I was about 13 in school both playing and coaching. I coached Physical Education, and being involved just about all my life in basketball and just about 17 - 18 years ago, at the pre-Olympic tournament in Rotterdam, I ran into Donnie Nelson and at that time he was looking for someone to help him out in Europe, because they wanted to get Sarunas Marciulionis to the NBA. And I just was sitting at the table like this, and he came over and started to introduce himself, and we became friends and I started to travel with him, and actually he dragged me into this scouting business. At that time I had no idea about it. I was just a basketball junkie, and I was working with youth teams and I looked at a little bit of European basketball; not close to what I know now.
Finally, they got Sarunas, and the Warriors asked me if I'd be interested in doing some more international scouting for them, and that's actually how I started. And I was 7 years with Golden State, everybody left over there, I finished my period because I had couple of months left on my agreement. Then the Spurs actually asked me because __ who was the Player Personnel Director of Golden State and became the Player Personnel Director of San Antonio, and he asked me if I'd work for them.
So I worked 7 years with San Antonio, it was a lot of fun and was nice, we won 2 championships, and now for two years I'm with New Jersey which I really like. I'm more involve with the daily operations and with everything that has to do with the draft and also with trades. I'm more part of the staff than I ever was before. It's interesting because it gives another look on everything. And then over the years, schools started to ask me about young players who would be interested in coming to colleges; they said "Can you find us a new Rik Smits?"; so I started to scout some youth basketball, and you know that worked out pretty well. I've been doing that for 17 years...
NDN: So you're able to scout on more than one level?
RM: Yeah, I love different levels. Now we start scouting on the age of about 15 - 16, and we try to cover all the players in Europe. All the players in the National Teams we cover. I do that with my company. I started a scouting service for schools in the United States. I was a physical trainer officer in the Army, and it's only for 10 - 11 years that I do this on a professional basis.
I did it as a hobby for a long time, and I could combine it because I was my own boss in the Army. So I could save all my days off and put them together and travel. So I decided to go full time in basketball. I don't know if it was a good decision though because I had a great job.
NDN: But this is a great job too?
RM: It's a lot of fun and it's something where you can accomplish something and you're really involved with professional basketball on the highest level; something that everyone dreams of; you know everyone dreams of working for an NBA team. I got this opportunity and to this day, I really appreciate it, people give me that opportunity so I try to make the best of it.
People say I'm the godfather of international basketball or something like that. That's bullshit! I was just lucky to be one of the first ones involved with it. I work hard for it but I'm not any different from all the others. If you take Gianluca (Pascucci: Houston Rockets Int. scout) , he works just as hard as anybody else. A little bit of difference is that I also run a scouting service for schools and teams in Europe; and that I have my own company; so that's why I go much deeper into what I do than the average NBA scouts. Because I have a lot of other clients also and I have to serve them information, and you have this camp over here, and a lot of these kids came here through my scouting service as part of the team we work, with Kay and Megan, and those who works for me, none of the other NBA scouts would do that. So that's an advantage.
NDN: Talk a little bit about the process of selecting players for this camp.
RM: Yeah, we have Kay Bluemel and Megan Compain (Director of International Basketball Scouting for adidas). They asked me if I was interested. Megan is new over here and Kay knows a lot about youth basketball because he's been coaching on that level for so long. And with all the traveling we did this summer we selected the players. Megan came on a month later, and Kay was very busy with the (German) National team. And with the National team programs in the summer, it's ridiculous because you have the 16-and-under A and B. You've got the 18-and-under A and B and you've got the 20-and-under A and B. You've got the (NBA) Basketball without Borders, you've got the Reebok (Treviso) camp, it's too much. Also for the kids...
That's why it was really difficult for us. It was really difficult to get the best players born in 1988, because they've been to all those camps, they've been playing the whole summer, those kids are tired. and a lot of them have to join their professional teams right now.
So there's another pressure on that. So it's not so easy. You know, there's a lot of politics going on also, it's really difficult. I think we did a nice job with the '89 kids, but the '88 was tough. The 88 should be a lot better. But for next year we have the basis now, with the 89. I think with '89 there are a couple very good players that were not here, but there are some very good '89 players here also. So, I think we did decent with that.
NDN: Switching gears, Nenad Krstic is one of the top young centers in the NBA; how did he fall into your laps?
RM: Actually when they drafted him, I was working for the San Antonio Spurs. And we really liked him. And we tried to make a trade with the Nets, and the Nets refused the trade. We were trying to trade up to get him, because we knew the Nets and some other teams were interested. So hey, that's how he fell into their laps, they actually had someone working for them at that time, for the Nets, who was a Serbian guy. And he pointed him out, and I think that's how they drafted him.
NDN: Do you know that scout's name, the Serbian guy?
RM: No. It's someone who works for FP Zeleznik, Reflex. I don't know his name.
NDN: He went 24th if I remember correctly?
RM: Yes. You know, he's a nice 24th pick. He's not too high, and he's not too low either.
NDN: They knew they couldn't get him for a couple years, but...
RM: No, but he wasn't ready either. And, you know, even at the beginning of the season we were not sure that he would be ready to play. But first he works hard, with all the trades and injuries and everything he got an opportunity, and he did more than we actually expected from him and he became a second team All Rookie and was one of the bigger surprises in the league this year.
NDN: Talk a little about the top prospects here, Alexis Ajinca and the Georgian center Georgi Shermadini, what kind of NBA players can they become?
RM: Well I can talk in general because I can't comment on specific players because that's against NBA policies. And you're going to publish this so I have to speak generally. You know, I think there's a couple interesting players over here, but they're so young. You know and now with the draft, you cannot draft players until they're 19 years old. So we have to wait but there's definitely some good talent over here.
There's some African kids who might develop into some good players, they need coaching and teaching over the years, but in my opinion, there's about 10 players who down the road you can look at. And from the 10, maybe 3 or 4 or 5 that can be drafted and 2 or 3 of the guys will make it. And you know, I think the Georgian kid could be one of them but not sure, and the same with the French kid.
There's some pretty decent talent over here. Not great, but it also depends year to year. 86 born kids I think were very good, I think the 87 was a little less, also because the exposure and opportunity they get to play with the National teams. And now with the new rules and the new system you will see all of the, next year you will see all the kids with the Cadets.
NDN: Seems like there has been almost a correction in the in the NBA in the sense that the last few years there was just a ton of International guys: European players that were taken. This past year 35 or so entered the draft early, of those 11 stayed in, and you only had 3-4 Europeans taken in the first round and 14 that were actually drafted. Do you see that trend continuing?
RM: I really thought about that, and someone else also interviewed my about that, I think it's realistic what's happening right now. Because in the past some of the NBA teams made some great draft picks. Actually once Petrovic started to play for the Nets, there was a lot more recognition and respect for International basketball. Until that time, they had International or European players come to the NBA. The NBA coaches or General Managers wanted the European players to or Brazilian or wherever they came from, to play as Americans. American basketball as an American player. And Petrovic for instance is not an American player, he's a European basketball player. If you play him in the way he can play, he's going to be very effective. That happens with the Nets, they start to use him as a shooter. He averages about 17.7 points per game and he was playing really really well. Then he was at Portland, they wanted him to play defense and be a role player, that's not what he was.
I think that the eye opener for a lot of coaches and NBA people was, if we adjust just a little bit, and the player will adjust just a little bit it can be a very nice marriage. Dallas is an example of that. The Spurs are an example of that. They use those European and those International players in a way that they can play their own game. So they were really successful. And everybody looked at it as: Why did you miss out on Nowitzki? why didn't we see Ginobili? Why didn't we draft Tony Parker? They missed out on so many players because they never scouted them, they never really thought about it.
So I think it's a reaction, suddenly all the NBA teams were checking into International basketball and I think players got overrated because nobody wanted to miss out again. You know, this is a typical thing. And now they find out that not every International player fits in the NBA, is willing to come over, there's so many things going on. I mean you take Darko Milicic, he's a nice player but I don't think he's a number 2 draft pick. You know, he's going to be an NBA player. But, I don't see him as a big star. And this year was even worse for the NBA, because now, one of the things that happens you not only compete with NBA teams, you start to compete with European teams, because you take a team such as Gerona, their budget is unlimited, CSKA Moscow has a budget close to an NBA team. Gerona signed Vazquez for 10 million for four years, I mean he's not 10 million worth in the next 10 years. But they pay it. And now he's not going to Orlando, and now Orlando got screwed because they lost their #11 draft pick, and he's never going to play there.
NDN: Can he in four years possibly go there, or you don't see that happening?
RM: I don't see it happening in the next four years, well unless I'm not sure Gerona will keep him and keep paying him the money they are now. I think they have those developers, the real estate people, they put so much money in there, because they want to promote the area and want to build over there. But if that doesn't work out and two years go by, and nothing. So, you never know what's going to happen with that. Real Madrid pays a lot of money.
You saw that Thiago Splitter pulled his name because his buyout is so ridiculous that none of the NBA teams can pay it, at least the player cannot pay it. And the NBA teams are not allowed to give half a million. And the same happened with Scola. And you know, the Spurs are stuck with him for at least two more years, because his buyout is so ridiculous, and the player wants to go to the NBA, and the Spurs want to have him but financially it doesn't make sense, because he's going to lose money. Because he makes a lot of money now, and he has to pay like, I don't know, 10 million or some crazy amount of money and it has to come out of his own pocket, and the Spurs cannot appeal that. There's no way he can do it. He has to wait two more years.
NDN: How good can he be in the NBA?
RM: I think he will be a very useful player. You know, he will be a rotation player. Rebounder, tough I mean he's a little undersized, he's not a real skilled player. He's a warrior.
NDN: Best of his kind in Europe?
RM: He's one of the best power forwards in Europe. Yeah. I really think especially with the way the Spurs are playing. Because their style of basketball is so much more European and more organized, it's not like real athletic or real up tempo. I mean it's a lot more difficult for him to play for Phoenix, for instance, than it is for San Antonio, or the Nets it's difficult too because we play pretty much up tempo, but we use a real passing game so with the passing game the players can really benefit. But it's really important what team it is.
What is interesting, you see a shift from drafting players, to signing free agents, and I think that's a really interesting move. For some of the players, play a couple of years in Europe, or they play a big part of their career in Europe like Jaskevicius and Oberto, and now they sign with NBA teams because they want to make that step. That's that missing link in their career and also it's not a huge risk because everybody knows what Jaskevicius can and cant do. So you know what he's worth. And the Pacers have been recruiting him for a long time now, and I'm really happy for him and the Pacers that he's going to go there. And I think he's going to do really well.
NDN: Can he start? By the beginning of the season? Mid-season?
RM: I wouldn't be surprised if he's going to be starting. Because if you... It was nice, a couple of months ago we were together with a couple of NBA scouts and we were talking about which player in Europe really makes a difference, can you name me 10 players? There's no way. I can name only one. There's only one player nowadays there was another one: Bodiroga, and maybe in the past there were some others, but nowadays only Jaskevicius is the only player who can really make the difference, because with him on your team, you're going to win. Everywhere he played, he won. There's not another player. Again there are great players, and they can be very good, and they can help your team, but he wins. And I think he can do the same in the NBA. Because that's what he is. And you name me 10 players in the NBA that can do that? That's difficult too.
NDN: Ginobili. He wins. Look at Argentina.
RM: Uhhhhh. Your talking about all the players in the NBA. There's what 32 33 max out players, about 10 of them are worth max out player. You know, like a Kidd, Garnett, Duncan, Bryant.
NDN: Nowitzki
RM: Nowitzki, ok yeah I'll take Nowitzki. Shaquille, but it's going to be difficult to name 10 players. Because not every NBA team has a player like that.
NDN: The kind of player you can build a championship team around.
RM: A player who really makes a difference. A player who you bring him on your team, and you know it's going to be different.
NDN: The difference between 20-30 games.
RM: Yes. They turn around your franchise. A player at that level you have a chance to be very successful.It's not even the same as a franchise player, it's more than a franchise player.
NDN: So does Indiana win the East with Jasikevicius?
RM: No I don't think so.
NDN: Miami does.
RM: Right now, you should put your money on Miami because they're loaded. They did really good. I think that the Nets would have had Shareef Abdur-Rahim, even though I think that Jackson can do a really good job for us, We're going to be a tough team, but it's not a lock that we're going to win it. But the East is a lot stronger than people think it is. A lot of teams have really gotten better. Cleveland is better. Chicago didn't make a lot of changes , but they've steadily building a team. Indiana is a very good team. Miami is great. The Nets are a very strong team.
NDN: What do you see happening with Skita?
RM: He's going to go to Minnesota. I've never been a really big Skita fan. I think he's very skilled and athletic, but he cannot translate it to his game. Maybe the circumstances will differ but I've never seen him play good games in big games. So I really doubt him. So it's hard. I think the Denver Nuggets know the big mistake when they took him at number 5. You know, it's way way overrated because he's not worth it. He might be a late first round draft pick. You take a chance on him and see how he develops. I would be surprised if he had a good career with Minnesota, but I always hope for the kid that he will. I think he's not lazy, that he's a kid that wants to work but he doesn't have the feel for the game.
NDN: OK lets say, Maccabi Tel Aviv plays one of the lower teams in the NBA. Who wins? Maybe a team above the Hawks, lets say the Lakers.
RM: Well they're going to tour the States and they're going to play some of those teams. With Jaskevicius, for sure they would be a tough nut to crack. For almost every NBA team. But it depends where you play. When you play them. You know. I still think that most of the NBA teams are better than Maccabi Tel Aviv but you know, a given day or a given moment, and a given place I think that Maccabi Tel Aviv can beat maybe half of the NBA teams. You have to be ready to play them. Because they play a very controlled style. and have some really good players. They have players who easily could play in the NBA. And with the European style of basketball with zoning and all the different things they do, it's really difficult to play them.
Do you think in the future more European players will go to the NBA?
RM: No. I think that it's kind of a balance now. last year was really a lot of European/International players drafted. This year, it went down. I don't know what's going to happen next year, but it could go down a little bit more. Also because the new rule, the new collective bargaining agreement. It's kind of a gap. And I think some of the NBA teams are really scared away by what happened now.
I think some European players were scared away too. You see where Andriuskevicius dropped, you see where Ukic dropped, you know, it's not fair but I understand that's the business but a lot of European players are now hesitant to put their name in early in the draft and what could happen so and they pay back, I think Ukic will never play in the NBA. Even as he progresses, and he adores the NBA. The NBA is the only thing on his mind. But he feels so bad about what happened with Toronto and he got a great offer in Spain, you know and he's going to play there and he's going to make so much money, that I don't think the Raptors can match that.
NDN: I was very surprised that he wasn't drafted in the first round.
RM: He had a promise but that's the problem with a promise. If you promise a player that oh, well take you at number 16 and this draft went really strange because there were some strange picks earlier and there were so many good players available and we drafted at 15 and we were trying to get the player we wanted to have, and we were praying that he would be there. But we had some other guys on our list, who were there too. Granger, Green, and we took Antoine Wright. garcia was there. I mean there were so many good players there. I mean Gerald Green was there. He goes number 18 and he might be the best pick in the draft. He might be, he might be the steal of the draft.
NDN: He might be a bust, or the best player in the draft.
RM: Yeah I don't think it will be something in between. (laughs) he's kind of a mix between Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter. And he played really good in the summer leagues also. I think they're gonna have a steal there.
NDN: What about the Olympics, and the USA falling off. Will they correct things and win it next time in Beijing?
RM: I think it's going to be really difficult unless they have a really good preparation period. and they get the best players, or not the best players, the best mix of players together. It's not having.. ok we can get the Dream Team together. But 10-12 years ago European and International basketball, Argentina and those countries they're really catching up. More of those players are playing in the NBA. It's better coaching, it's better preparation. The rules are in favor of the International teams. If they had more time to get the team together and practice and prepare and they are really focused and motivated to win, then they would really have a chance to win. If they don't do it, it happens with the juniors, it happens with the 21 and under, it happens with the men...
NDN: The most talented team doesn't always win.
RM: No, it's not only about talent, it's the best team that wins. If you ask who can put the best players together, there's no doubt in my mind. But it doesn't mean it's the best team. I mean you take a team like Argentina who is so well prepared, they've played together for ten years. They blindly find each other. They've got great players. They've got some of the best players in the world. Hey, you have to prepare against them. Because even at home you can lose.
NDN: If the US sent the San Antonio Spurs, would that be a better team than the All Star team they put together?
RM: Probably yes, but it's a mix of all kinds of Nationalities. It's an International team. But I think an NBA team is better prepared. They really play together and have a real good system. There are so many different options. Especially the Spurs because I think it's one of the most versatile basketball teams in the world. Because they can play almost every style of basketball. Regardless of who they play. They can run with the Phoenix Suns and they can slow it down against New York. And they can play physical... They're very good. So I think a team like that has a chance to win the World Championship or the Olympics.
Link (http://nbadraft.net/2005berlin007.asp)
Rob Meurs is respected as one of the top International scouts in the NBA having worked in the business for 17 years. Meurs worked 7 years for the Golden State Warriors, 7 years with the San Antonio Spurs, and is now in his third year with the New Jersey Nets. Meurs also runs his own scouting service for American college teams. When it comes to International basketball, Meurs has a handle on the European and International scene like few others.
NDN: You are credited with drafting Manu Ginobili; how did you spot him when so many others missed?
RM: Well it's not fair to say that I'm credited for it; it was a team effort, also Buford and the other people in the staff there with the Spurs being involved with it. I'm just a small part of it... I saw him for the first time I think with the Junior National Team; not thinking about drafting him; just scouting all the players.
After some years, you see some players getting better than the others, that's when you make decisions whether you are going to follow them or not. I saw him playing in the Pan-Am games, in the Caribbean, and in the Australia Under 22 World Championships, where he was actually not the best player on the team. So we'd seem him a lot.
NDN: And there was actually a coin flip involved?
RM: We didn't know who to choose, it was Victoriano or Ginobili, because at the time Victoriano was actually the better player. He played really well for the National Team, then later on went over to Spain and had a decent career. But, we really didn't know there was that big of an upside with Ginobili.
We liked him because he was athletic and he was playing hard. That was about it. And you look at him now, and he's a great defensive player. For instance, he's a very creative player. Then you know he was actually kind of a selfish gunner, and you know he's very athletic. He was running the floor up and down, so, I can even say we took a gamble on him because at the time we had no idea. Nobody knew; not even him (laughs).
After we drafted him, I think the biggest thing that happened was that he went to Bologna. With the coaching staff, it was the perfect situation for him. The way they played, with a rotation of four or five guards, that all play the same position. The thing is he's from a real basketball background; his two brothers played professional ball. His father's a coach; his mother was a coach, and you go there, and they only talk about basketball. They eat, they drink, they sleep basketball and it's all about those 3 kids. We actually didn't know that when we drafted him. But, later on, we found out about the whole background and where he came from, was a big influence on him and also helped him to develop into what he is nowadays.
And when I thought he was REALLY good, I really remember that. It was when they played the finals against Sienna in the Italian Cup for league. In the end of the game, it was a close game, he grabbed an offensive board with 5 - 6 seconds to go, and instead of pulling it up himself and trying to force the game, which is normally what he would do, he just grabbed the rebound, he knew where Rigadeau was on the baseline, like 15 - 16 feet away from the basket, and Rigadeau was a great shooter, and he passed the ball, and Rigadeau hit the winning basket on the buzzer, but I thought it was play of Ginobili, and I wrote down at that time "I think he's ready".
NDN: Give a little background on how you got into scouting and your background in basketball.
RM: I'm 50 now, and I think I started when I was about 13 in school both playing and coaching. I coached Physical Education, and being involved just about all my life in basketball and just about 17 - 18 years ago, at the pre-Olympic tournament in Rotterdam, I ran into Donnie Nelson and at that time he was looking for someone to help him out in Europe, because they wanted to get Sarunas Marciulionis to the NBA. And I just was sitting at the table like this, and he came over and started to introduce himself, and we became friends and I started to travel with him, and actually he dragged me into this scouting business. At that time I had no idea about it. I was just a basketball junkie, and I was working with youth teams and I looked at a little bit of European basketball; not close to what I know now.
Finally, they got Sarunas, and the Warriors asked me if I'd be interested in doing some more international scouting for them, and that's actually how I started. And I was 7 years with Golden State, everybody left over there, I finished my period because I had couple of months left on my agreement. Then the Spurs actually asked me because __ who was the Player Personnel Director of Golden State and became the Player Personnel Director of San Antonio, and he asked me if I'd work for them.
So I worked 7 years with San Antonio, it was a lot of fun and was nice, we won 2 championships, and now for two years I'm with New Jersey which I really like. I'm more involve with the daily operations and with everything that has to do with the draft and also with trades. I'm more part of the staff than I ever was before. It's interesting because it gives another look on everything. And then over the years, schools started to ask me about young players who would be interested in coming to colleges; they said "Can you find us a new Rik Smits?"; so I started to scout some youth basketball, and you know that worked out pretty well. I've been doing that for 17 years...
NDN: So you're able to scout on more than one level?
RM: Yeah, I love different levels. Now we start scouting on the age of about 15 - 16, and we try to cover all the players in Europe. All the players in the National Teams we cover. I do that with my company. I started a scouting service for schools in the United States. I was a physical trainer officer in the Army, and it's only for 10 - 11 years that I do this on a professional basis.
I did it as a hobby for a long time, and I could combine it because I was my own boss in the Army. So I could save all my days off and put them together and travel. So I decided to go full time in basketball. I don't know if it was a good decision though because I had a great job.
NDN: But this is a great job too?
RM: It's a lot of fun and it's something where you can accomplish something and you're really involved with professional basketball on the highest level; something that everyone dreams of; you know everyone dreams of working for an NBA team. I got this opportunity and to this day, I really appreciate it, people give me that opportunity so I try to make the best of it.
People say I'm the godfather of international basketball or something like that. That's bullshit! I was just lucky to be one of the first ones involved with it. I work hard for it but I'm not any different from all the others. If you take Gianluca (Pascucci: Houston Rockets Int. scout) , he works just as hard as anybody else. A little bit of difference is that I also run a scouting service for schools and teams in Europe; and that I have my own company; so that's why I go much deeper into what I do than the average NBA scouts. Because I have a lot of other clients also and I have to serve them information, and you have this camp over here, and a lot of these kids came here through my scouting service as part of the team we work, with Kay and Megan, and those who works for me, none of the other NBA scouts would do that. So that's an advantage.
NDN: Talk a little bit about the process of selecting players for this camp.
RM: Yeah, we have Kay Bluemel and Megan Compain (Director of International Basketball Scouting for adidas). They asked me if I was interested. Megan is new over here and Kay knows a lot about youth basketball because he's been coaching on that level for so long. And with all the traveling we did this summer we selected the players. Megan came on a month later, and Kay was very busy with the (German) National team. And with the National team programs in the summer, it's ridiculous because you have the 16-and-under A and B. You've got the 18-and-under A and B and you've got the 20-and-under A and B. You've got the (NBA) Basketball without Borders, you've got the Reebok (Treviso) camp, it's too much. Also for the kids...
That's why it was really difficult for us. It was really difficult to get the best players born in 1988, because they've been to all those camps, they've been playing the whole summer, those kids are tired. and a lot of them have to join their professional teams right now.
So there's another pressure on that. So it's not so easy. You know, there's a lot of politics going on also, it's really difficult. I think we did a nice job with the '89 kids, but the '88 was tough. The 88 should be a lot better. But for next year we have the basis now, with the 89. I think with '89 there are a couple very good players that were not here, but there are some very good '89 players here also. So, I think we did decent with that.
NDN: Switching gears, Nenad Krstic is one of the top young centers in the NBA; how did he fall into your laps?
RM: Actually when they drafted him, I was working for the San Antonio Spurs. And we really liked him. And we tried to make a trade with the Nets, and the Nets refused the trade. We were trying to trade up to get him, because we knew the Nets and some other teams were interested. So hey, that's how he fell into their laps, they actually had someone working for them at that time, for the Nets, who was a Serbian guy. And he pointed him out, and I think that's how they drafted him.
NDN: Do you know that scout's name, the Serbian guy?
RM: No. It's someone who works for FP Zeleznik, Reflex. I don't know his name.
NDN: He went 24th if I remember correctly?
RM: Yes. You know, he's a nice 24th pick. He's not too high, and he's not too low either.
NDN: They knew they couldn't get him for a couple years, but...
RM: No, but he wasn't ready either. And, you know, even at the beginning of the season we were not sure that he would be ready to play. But first he works hard, with all the trades and injuries and everything he got an opportunity, and he did more than we actually expected from him and he became a second team All Rookie and was one of the bigger surprises in the league this year.
NDN: Talk a little about the top prospects here, Alexis Ajinca and the Georgian center Georgi Shermadini, what kind of NBA players can they become?
RM: Well I can talk in general because I can't comment on specific players because that's against NBA policies. And you're going to publish this so I have to speak generally. You know, I think there's a couple interesting players over here, but they're so young. You know and now with the draft, you cannot draft players until they're 19 years old. So we have to wait but there's definitely some good talent over here.
There's some African kids who might develop into some good players, they need coaching and teaching over the years, but in my opinion, there's about 10 players who down the road you can look at. And from the 10, maybe 3 or 4 or 5 that can be drafted and 2 or 3 of the guys will make it. And you know, I think the Georgian kid could be one of them but not sure, and the same with the French kid.
There's some pretty decent talent over here. Not great, but it also depends year to year. 86 born kids I think were very good, I think the 87 was a little less, also because the exposure and opportunity they get to play with the National teams. And now with the new rules and the new system you will see all of the, next year you will see all the kids with the Cadets.
NDN: Seems like there has been almost a correction in the in the NBA in the sense that the last few years there was just a ton of International guys: European players that were taken. This past year 35 or so entered the draft early, of those 11 stayed in, and you only had 3-4 Europeans taken in the first round and 14 that were actually drafted. Do you see that trend continuing?
RM: I really thought about that, and someone else also interviewed my about that, I think it's realistic what's happening right now. Because in the past some of the NBA teams made some great draft picks. Actually once Petrovic started to play for the Nets, there was a lot more recognition and respect for International basketball. Until that time, they had International or European players come to the NBA. The NBA coaches or General Managers wanted the European players to or Brazilian or wherever they came from, to play as Americans. American basketball as an American player. And Petrovic for instance is not an American player, he's a European basketball player. If you play him in the way he can play, he's going to be very effective. That happens with the Nets, they start to use him as a shooter. He averages about 17.7 points per game and he was playing really really well. Then he was at Portland, they wanted him to play defense and be a role player, that's not what he was.
I think that the eye opener for a lot of coaches and NBA people was, if we adjust just a little bit, and the player will adjust just a little bit it can be a very nice marriage. Dallas is an example of that. The Spurs are an example of that. They use those European and those International players in a way that they can play their own game. So they were really successful. And everybody looked at it as: Why did you miss out on Nowitzki? why didn't we see Ginobili? Why didn't we draft Tony Parker? They missed out on so many players because they never scouted them, they never really thought about it.
So I think it's a reaction, suddenly all the NBA teams were checking into International basketball and I think players got overrated because nobody wanted to miss out again. You know, this is a typical thing. And now they find out that not every International player fits in the NBA, is willing to come over, there's so many things going on. I mean you take Darko Milicic, he's a nice player but I don't think he's a number 2 draft pick. You know, he's going to be an NBA player. But, I don't see him as a big star. And this year was even worse for the NBA, because now, one of the things that happens you not only compete with NBA teams, you start to compete with European teams, because you take a team such as Gerona, their budget is unlimited, CSKA Moscow has a budget close to an NBA team. Gerona signed Vazquez for 10 million for four years, I mean he's not 10 million worth in the next 10 years. But they pay it. And now he's not going to Orlando, and now Orlando got screwed because they lost their #11 draft pick, and he's never going to play there.
NDN: Can he in four years possibly go there, or you don't see that happening?
RM: I don't see it happening in the next four years, well unless I'm not sure Gerona will keep him and keep paying him the money they are now. I think they have those developers, the real estate people, they put so much money in there, because they want to promote the area and want to build over there. But if that doesn't work out and two years go by, and nothing. So, you never know what's going to happen with that. Real Madrid pays a lot of money.
You saw that Thiago Splitter pulled his name because his buyout is so ridiculous that none of the NBA teams can pay it, at least the player cannot pay it. And the NBA teams are not allowed to give half a million. And the same happened with Scola. And you know, the Spurs are stuck with him for at least two more years, because his buyout is so ridiculous, and the player wants to go to the NBA, and the Spurs want to have him but financially it doesn't make sense, because he's going to lose money. Because he makes a lot of money now, and he has to pay like, I don't know, 10 million or some crazy amount of money and it has to come out of his own pocket, and the Spurs cannot appeal that. There's no way he can do it. He has to wait two more years.
NDN: How good can he be in the NBA?
RM: I think he will be a very useful player. You know, he will be a rotation player. Rebounder, tough I mean he's a little undersized, he's not a real skilled player. He's a warrior.
NDN: Best of his kind in Europe?
RM: He's one of the best power forwards in Europe. Yeah. I really think especially with the way the Spurs are playing. Because their style of basketball is so much more European and more organized, it's not like real athletic or real up tempo. I mean it's a lot more difficult for him to play for Phoenix, for instance, than it is for San Antonio, or the Nets it's difficult too because we play pretty much up tempo, but we use a real passing game so with the passing game the players can really benefit. But it's really important what team it is.
What is interesting, you see a shift from drafting players, to signing free agents, and I think that's a really interesting move. For some of the players, play a couple of years in Europe, or they play a big part of their career in Europe like Jaskevicius and Oberto, and now they sign with NBA teams because they want to make that step. That's that missing link in their career and also it's not a huge risk because everybody knows what Jaskevicius can and cant do. So you know what he's worth. And the Pacers have been recruiting him for a long time now, and I'm really happy for him and the Pacers that he's going to go there. And I think he's going to do really well.
NDN: Can he start? By the beginning of the season? Mid-season?
RM: I wouldn't be surprised if he's going to be starting. Because if you... It was nice, a couple of months ago we were together with a couple of NBA scouts and we were talking about which player in Europe really makes a difference, can you name me 10 players? There's no way. I can name only one. There's only one player nowadays there was another one: Bodiroga, and maybe in the past there were some others, but nowadays only Jaskevicius is the only player who can really make the difference, because with him on your team, you're going to win. Everywhere he played, he won. There's not another player. Again there are great players, and they can be very good, and they can help your team, but he wins. And I think he can do the same in the NBA. Because that's what he is. And you name me 10 players in the NBA that can do that? That's difficult too.
NDN: Ginobili. He wins. Look at Argentina.
RM: Uhhhhh. Your talking about all the players in the NBA. There's what 32 33 max out players, about 10 of them are worth max out player. You know, like a Kidd, Garnett, Duncan, Bryant.
NDN: Nowitzki
RM: Nowitzki, ok yeah I'll take Nowitzki. Shaquille, but it's going to be difficult to name 10 players. Because not every NBA team has a player like that.
NDN: The kind of player you can build a championship team around.
RM: A player who really makes a difference. A player who you bring him on your team, and you know it's going to be different.
NDN: The difference between 20-30 games.
RM: Yes. They turn around your franchise. A player at that level you have a chance to be very successful.It's not even the same as a franchise player, it's more than a franchise player.
NDN: So does Indiana win the East with Jasikevicius?
RM: No I don't think so.
NDN: Miami does.
RM: Right now, you should put your money on Miami because they're loaded. They did really good. I think that the Nets would have had Shareef Abdur-Rahim, even though I think that Jackson can do a really good job for us, We're going to be a tough team, but it's not a lock that we're going to win it. But the East is a lot stronger than people think it is. A lot of teams have really gotten better. Cleveland is better. Chicago didn't make a lot of changes , but they've steadily building a team. Indiana is a very good team. Miami is great. The Nets are a very strong team.
NDN: What do you see happening with Skita?
RM: He's going to go to Minnesota. I've never been a really big Skita fan. I think he's very skilled and athletic, but he cannot translate it to his game. Maybe the circumstances will differ but I've never seen him play good games in big games. So I really doubt him. So it's hard. I think the Denver Nuggets know the big mistake when they took him at number 5. You know, it's way way overrated because he's not worth it. He might be a late first round draft pick. You take a chance on him and see how he develops. I would be surprised if he had a good career with Minnesota, but I always hope for the kid that he will. I think he's not lazy, that he's a kid that wants to work but he doesn't have the feel for the game.
NDN: OK lets say, Maccabi Tel Aviv plays one of the lower teams in the NBA. Who wins? Maybe a team above the Hawks, lets say the Lakers.
RM: Well they're going to tour the States and they're going to play some of those teams. With Jaskevicius, for sure they would be a tough nut to crack. For almost every NBA team. But it depends where you play. When you play them. You know. I still think that most of the NBA teams are better than Maccabi Tel Aviv but you know, a given day or a given moment, and a given place I think that Maccabi Tel Aviv can beat maybe half of the NBA teams. You have to be ready to play them. Because they play a very controlled style. and have some really good players. They have players who easily could play in the NBA. And with the European style of basketball with zoning and all the different things they do, it's really difficult to play them.
Do you think in the future more European players will go to the NBA?
RM: No. I think that it's kind of a balance now. last year was really a lot of European/International players drafted. This year, it went down. I don't know what's going to happen next year, but it could go down a little bit more. Also because the new rule, the new collective bargaining agreement. It's kind of a gap. And I think some of the NBA teams are really scared away by what happened now.
I think some European players were scared away too. You see where Andriuskevicius dropped, you see where Ukic dropped, you know, it's not fair but I understand that's the business but a lot of European players are now hesitant to put their name in early in the draft and what could happen so and they pay back, I think Ukic will never play in the NBA. Even as he progresses, and he adores the NBA. The NBA is the only thing on his mind. But he feels so bad about what happened with Toronto and he got a great offer in Spain, you know and he's going to play there and he's going to make so much money, that I don't think the Raptors can match that.
NDN: I was very surprised that he wasn't drafted in the first round.
RM: He had a promise but that's the problem with a promise. If you promise a player that oh, well take you at number 16 and this draft went really strange because there were some strange picks earlier and there were so many good players available and we drafted at 15 and we were trying to get the player we wanted to have, and we were praying that he would be there. But we had some other guys on our list, who were there too. Granger, Green, and we took Antoine Wright. garcia was there. I mean there were so many good players there. I mean Gerald Green was there. He goes number 18 and he might be the best pick in the draft. He might be, he might be the steal of the draft.
NDN: He might be a bust, or the best player in the draft.
RM: Yeah I don't think it will be something in between. (laughs) he's kind of a mix between Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter. And he played really good in the summer leagues also. I think they're gonna have a steal there.
NDN: What about the Olympics, and the USA falling off. Will they correct things and win it next time in Beijing?
RM: I think it's going to be really difficult unless they have a really good preparation period. and they get the best players, or not the best players, the best mix of players together. It's not having.. ok we can get the Dream Team together. But 10-12 years ago European and International basketball, Argentina and those countries they're really catching up. More of those players are playing in the NBA. It's better coaching, it's better preparation. The rules are in favor of the International teams. If they had more time to get the team together and practice and prepare and they are really focused and motivated to win, then they would really have a chance to win. If they don't do it, it happens with the juniors, it happens with the 21 and under, it happens with the men...
NDN: The most talented team doesn't always win.
RM: No, it's not only about talent, it's the best team that wins. If you ask who can put the best players together, there's no doubt in my mind. But it doesn't mean it's the best team. I mean you take a team like Argentina who is so well prepared, they've played together for ten years. They blindly find each other. They've got great players. They've got some of the best players in the world. Hey, you have to prepare against them. Because even at home you can lose.
NDN: If the US sent the San Antonio Spurs, would that be a better team than the All Star team they put together?
RM: Probably yes, but it's a mix of all kinds of Nationalities. It's an International team. But I think an NBA team is better prepared. They really play together and have a real good system. There are so many different options. Especially the Spurs because I think it's one of the most versatile basketball teams in the world. Because they can play almost every style of basketball. Regardless of who they play. They can run with the Phoenix Suns and they can slow it down against New York. And they can play physical... They're very good. So I think a team like that has a chance to win the World Championship or the Olympics.
Link (http://nbadraft.net/2005berlin007.asp)