PhD Student's Brilliant Idea to End NBA Tanking

[spurraider21]

:wow its actually pretty fucking brilliant the more i think about it. link posted below but i'll give the tl;dr version

basically you keep a tally of a team's wins AFTER they've been eliminated from playoff contention, and the team with the most points in that system gets the highest pick. so teams like the sixers who get eliminated with about 30 games to go have plenty of opportunity to rack up 10-12 wins... while the good teams that miss the playoffs (say, Pelicans) are only going to be eliminated from contention with about 2-3 games to go... so its not like you have a system where a pretty good team flukes into a great draft spot.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/phd-students-brilliantly-simple-solution-185100179.html

[FlAVaK]

It may seem brilliant at the first glance, but in the end:


Tanking is probably a problem that is here to stay.

[Clipper Nation]

This whole tanking debate is played-out and boring, and the media is only entertaining it because several teams are doing a better job of tanking than their beloved Lakers.

[Infinite_limit]

This whole tanking debate is played-out and boring, and the media is only entertaining it because several teams are doing a better job of tanking than their beloved Lakers.
What is the problem with tanking?

- Bad teams not trying? They would lose 90% of those games regardless
- Quality teams with 1 or 2 injuries shutting guys down for season

Except for the 1996 Spurs (who finished with 3rd worst record) when has tanking affected the league long term? Seems a case of bad teams being bad.

[313]

What is the problem with tanking?

- Bad teams not trying? They would lose 90% of those games regardless
- Quality teams with 1 or 2 injuries shutting guys down for season

Except for the 1996 Spurs (who finished with 3rd worst record) when has tanking affected the league long term? Seems a case of bad teams being bad.
I think that's the problem. Every year teams are "tanking" but it rarely helps.

[TDMVPDPOY]

imo if u put a shit product out there...u have no business having a big slice of tv revenue

tv revenue should be base on where ur ends on the standings, penalize those fkn shitty teams who put out shitty roster and tankn...u can have ur high pick,, but u wont get paid for it...

[spurraider21]

tanking puts out a shit product. that's not a good thing for the league or the fans

[CitizenDwayne]

They would lose 90% of those games regardless

Exactly. This is why I don't understand the controversy

[spurraider21]

bad teams will still be bad. but tanking is ugly on another level

[apalisoc_9]

imo if u put a shit product out there...u have no business having a big slice of tv revenue

tv revenue should be base on where ur ends on the standings, penalize those fkn shitty teams who put out shitty roster and tankn...u can have ur high pick,, but u wont get paid for it...

[spurraider21]

a lot of the bad teams are small market with low budget. cutting their revenue will put them under

[apalisoc_9]

what stops tanking teams for tanking earlier?

Most teams are just going to start tanking earlier...so instead of seeing the shitty product mid season and late, we see them early.

At least with this format we still get some delusional teams busting their asses trying to make a name for themsleves.

[DMC]

Why worry about their record after elimination? Why not just go with the 17th place and down? East teams would have the best chances under the system in the OP. They'd be able to win easier and be able to be eliminated later so they'd not need as many wins to have a better winning percentage afterward.

I say fuck those teams. Put the top 16 teams in the playoffs. You cannot force a team to be competitive. That's where consumer demand comes in. If they are selling tickets, they are doing their jobs.

[Raven]

you didn't think about it much then.

[FkLA]

It actually is pretty brilliant. I'm trying to find a major fault with it but can't, definitely much better than the current system or any other ideas that have been proposed tbh.

[Cry Havoc]

:wow its actually pretty fucking brilliant the more i think about it. link posted below but i'll give the tl;dr version

basically you keep a tally of a team's wins AFTER they've been eliminated from playoff contention, and the team with the most points in that system gets the highest pick. so teams like the sixers who get eliminated with about 30 games to go have plenty of opportunity to rack up 10-12 wins... while the good teams that miss the playoffs (say, Pelicans) are only going to be eliminated from contention with about 2-3 games to go... so its not like you have a system where a pretty good team flukes into a great draft spot.


http://finance.yahoo.com/news/phd-students-brilliantly-simple-solution-185100179.html

Not bad, not bad at all.

[RD2191]

what sucks is that it's usually the same teams tanking over and over.

[Seventyniner]

The best point the article makes is that tanking isn't done by the players or coaches, it's done by the front offices. The coaches and players are going to work their asses off to win, even the Sixers. It's Hinkie and those like him that purposefully build bad rosters. You have to take away the incentive to put together a crap team on purpose to get rid of tanking. This proposal doesn't do that.

Given that the East is so bad, it's actually pretty hard to get mathematically eliminated from the playoffs in the East. The biggest beneficiaries would be teams at the bottom of the West because they would get eliminated earlier in the season and would have more opportunities to rack up wins past that point. For this proposal to work we would need a balanced schedule and the elimination of conferences.

[LkrFan]

This whole tanking debate is played-out and boring, and the media is only entertaining it because several teams are doing a better job of tanking than their beloved Lakers.
Please. Clipps INVENTED tanking - because they just always SUCKED! -15 points son. :rollin :lmao :rollin

[hater]

Tanking is a myth and was proven false when the kniks pushed the spurs shit in a couple weeks ago

[K...]

I was thinking something similar. Take the bottom half of the nba at all start break. Seed lottery teams then. Award balls.

Have a midseason lottery team tournament, where only players with less than three years experience play. The winners get lottery balls. The second half of the season would reward the most improved team.

So basically I want tons of lottery balls.

And at the final lottery announcement ceremony a team can challenge a higher ranked team to a 15m game to get their pick. They surrender their second round pick if they lose.

Let's also let fans vote on best lottery team; that team gets more balls.

[spurraider21]

what stops tanking teams for tanking earlier?

Most teams are just going to start tanking earlier...so instead of seeing the shitty product mid season and late, we see them early.

At least with this format we still get some delusional teams busting their asses trying to make a name for themsleves.
they might tank earlier, but its better than tanking the entire season tbh... most teams won't be tanking in the first 30 games or so anyway

[spurraider21]

it also takes away the incentive for teams to give younger players bigger roles to end a season, since they are gunning for wins, not development. its not flawless, but i'm for any system that incentivizes wins for bad teams

[JMarkJohns]

The simplest way is everyone has equal shot at top-5 pick, five teams pulled, then win% decides 6-14, playoffs decide 15-30.

It doesn't reward tanking, doesn't hurt competitive teams. If you're the worst team, your guaranteed a top-6 selection. Don't like that, spend more money on scouts, managers, players, coaches. It forces shit orgs to be competitive in all aspects since draft selection isn't tied solely to losses. It also adds balance to imbalanced conferences.

[DMC]

The purpose of owning a franchise is to make money. If fans continue to support a losing franchise then the franchise is doing something right. It might look bad to the fans of successful NBA franchises, but there are teams like the Knicks that make far and away more money than the Spurs and yet they don't win anything. They get the better free agents, yet they don't win anything.

When big market teams tank no one seems to care, it's good for the NBA that they have the best talent. When shithole teams tank and the best rookies end up in shithole cities spending 4 years on a shithole team with no real championship aspirations, that's bad for the rookie and bad for the future of the league. It's not bad for the franchise though.

[DMC]

The simplest way is everyone has equal shot at top-5 pick, five teams pulled, then win% decides 6-14, playoffs decide 15-30.

It doesn't reward tanking, doesn't hurt competitive teams. If you're the worst team, your guaranteed a top-6 selection. Don't like that, spend more money on scouts, managers, players, coaches. It forces shit orgs to be competitive in all aspects since draft selection isn't tied solely to losses. It also adds balance to imbalanced conferences.

Conferences are imbalanced because free agents want to play out West. Look at Boston and NY right now. Two premier basketball cities... vacant basically. Miami, vacant because James went back to Cleveland. Chicago has Gasol.

Then you have Lillard, Duncan, M Gasol, Aldridge, Howard, Durant, Westbrook, Parker, Manu, Harden, Curry, Thompson, Paul, Griffin, Cousins, Leonard, Dirk, Davis, and yeah Kobe.. all in the West. Look at how many of those guys were drafted by Western teams. What's wrong with the East coast scouts who think Bennett is a good 1st overall, or a team that picks a crippled person with the 3rd pick? Or a team that trades away a 1st overall pick for Kevin Love?

It's not just about the 1st pick. It's about having the sense to make it mean something.

[K...]

Alright let's go full nerd here and suggest, not a lottery but an auction!

Use the reverse rankings to distribute credits. Teams then go around picking a draft eligible prospect and then set the minimum bid. Starting with champion on down each team has one chance to bid. The team who original set prospect price can match any outbid offer.

This makes the draft more difficult to game. On paper a bad team should get more draft talent, buy only if the can value talent smartly.

No more bad first round picks, just bad team bidding. Presumably the worst team would get a consensus number one since they'd have the most credits, except any team could trade their credits to any other.

[DMC]

Alright let's go full nerd here and suggest, not a lottery but an auction!

Use the reverse rankings to distribute credits. Teams then go around picking a draft eligible prospect and then set the minimum bid. Starting with champion on down each team has one chance to bid. The team who original set prospect price can match any outbid offer.

This makes the draft more difficult to game. On paper a bad team should get more draft talent, buy only if the can value talent smartly.

No more bad first round picks, just bad team bidding. Presumably the worst team would get a consensus number one since they'd have the most credits, except any team could trade their credits to any other.

What about when the teams have used all their credits, what happens to the rest of the draft class?

[K...]

Well, there would at least be one player for every team (who didn't trade out) the draft can just end when all teams exhaust credit. So yeah, theoretically you could have a short draft if there is a highly concentrated talent among a few players, a longer draft if there's no standout.

[K...]

Also, spurs raider, plz call me brilliant too

[DMC]

Well, there would at least be one player for every team (who didn't trade out) the draft can just end when all teams exhaust credit. So yeah, theoretically you could have a short draft if there is a highly concentrated talent among a few players, a longer draft if there's no standout.

A current student-athlete loses amateur status in a particular sport by asking to be placed on the draft list or supplemental draft list of a professional league in that sport. Amateur status is lost even if the athlete’s name is withdrawn from the draft list before the actual draft, the athlete is not drafted, or the athlete is drafted but does not sign an agreement with a professional team.

http://www.ncaa.org/remaining-eligible-professional-draft-inquiries

[K...]

Tough luck. There's still free agency and d league draft assignments. The amount of nba talent coming from colleges varies year to year. Why should the nba care if second round or late lottery kids leave school too early and have to improve their game?

It's the ncaa with the stupid rule, not the nba. I'd abolish the ncaa and turn 17+ kids pro and salaried if I had my say.

I also want D league salary increased to be a fair minor league.

Right now the Philly model is the only model of rebuilding for a team without assets. I think the auction model would allow teams to either target specific young players or trade out.

Want more fun? Let teams carry their credits forward year to year.

[DMC]

Tough luck. There's still free agency and d league draft assignments. The amount of nba talent coming from colleges varies year to year. Why should the nba care if second round or late lottery kids leave school too early and have to improve their game?

It's the ncaa with the stupid rule, not the nba. I'd abolish the ncaa and turn 17+ kids pro and salaried if I had my say.

I also want D league salary increased to be a fair minor league.

Right now the Philly model is the only model of rebuilding for a team without assets. I think the auction model would allow teams to either target specific young players or trade out.

Want more fun? Let teams carry their credits forward year to year.

So you're the Ron Paul of NBA reform.. basically ideas that will never come to fruition because you have big eyes and zero wallet. The NBA doesn't want to shit can their entire system and the NCAA isn't going anywhere.

[K...]

Yeah like I said, I'm only posting for spurs raider's e-respect. I'm not a PhD, but gosh darn I'm a winner

[DMC]

Yeah like I said, I'm only posting for spurs raider's e-respect. I'm not a PhD, but gosh darn I'm a winner
Not with that avatar.

[sprrs]

Tough luck. There's still free agency and d league draft assignments. The amount of nba talent coming from colleges varies year to year. Why should the nba care if second round or late lottery kids leave school too early and have to improve their game?

It's the ncaa with the stupid rule, not the nba. I'd abolish the ncaa and turn 17+ kids pro and salaried if I had my say.

I also want D league salary increased to be a fair minor league.

Right now the Philly model is the only model of rebuilding for a team without assets. I think the auction model would allow teams to either target specific young players or trade out.

Want more fun? Let teams carry their credits forward year to year.

While we agree this is something that would never come to fruition, it could potentially improve the quality of rookies by scaring them into staying in college to work on their game and have a better chance of being drafted in subsequent years. That would only be a good thing.