Iran agrees to nuclear framework

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/iran-nuclear-deal-breakthrough-116618.html?hp=t1_r

[CosmicCowboy]

Also known as Iran punks USA.

You gotta know when to walk away from the table.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao

WHAT agreement?

LAUSANNE, Switzerland — Just hours after the announcement of what the United States characterized as a historic agreement with Iran over its nuclear program, the country’s leading negotiator lashed out at the Obama administration for lying about the details of a tentative framework.

Iranian Foreign Minister Javad Zarif accused the Obama administration of misleading the American people and Congress in a fact sheet it released following the culmination of negotiations with the Islamic Republic.

Zarif bragged in an earlier press conference with reporters that the United States had tentatively agreed to let it continue the enrichment of uranium, the key component in a nuclear bomb, as well as key nuclear research.

Zarif additionally said Iran would have all sanctions lifted once a final deal is signed and that the country would not be forced to shut down any of its currently operating nuclear installations.

Following a subsequent press conference by Secretary of State John Kerry—and release of a administration fact sheet on Iranian concessions—Zarif lashed out on Twitter over what he dubbed lies.

“The solutions are good for all, as they stand,” he tweeted. “There is no need to spin using ‘fact sheets’ so early on.”

Zarif went on to push back against claims by Kerry that the sanctions relief would be implemented in a phased fashion—and only after Iran verifies that it is not conducting any work on the nuclear weapons front.

Zarif, echoing previous comments, said the United States has promised an immediate termination of sanctions.

“Iran/5+1 Statement: ‘US will cease the application of ALL nuclear-related secondary economic and financial sanctions.’ Is this gradual?” he wrote on Twitter.

He then suggested a correction: “Iran/P5+1 Statement: ‘The EU will TERMINATE the implementation of ALL nuclear-related economic and financial sanctions’. How about this?”

The pushback from Iran’s chief diplomat follows a pattern of similar accusations by senior Iranian political figures after the announcement of previous agreements.

Following the signing of an interim agreement with Iran aimed at scaling back its nuclear work, Iran accused the United States of lying about details of the agreement.

On Thursday evening, Zarif told reporters the latest agreement allows Iran to keep operating its nuclear program.

“None of those measures” that will move to scale back Iran’s program “include closing any of our facilities,” Zarif said. “We will continue enriching; we will continue research and development.”

“Our heavy water reactor will be modernized and we will continue the Fordow facility,” Zarif said. “We will have centrifuges installed in Fordow, but not enriching.”

The move to allow Iran to keep centrifuges at Fordow, a controversial onetime military site, has elicited concern that Tehran could ramp up its nuclear work with ease.

Zarif said that once a final agreement is made, “all U.S. nuclear related secondary sanctions will be terminated,” he said. “This, I think, would be a major step forward.”

Zarif also revealed that Iran will be allowed to sell “enriched uranium” in the international market place and will be “hopefully making some money” from it.

[CosmicCowboy]

“It is a good deal,” Obama declared Thursday, calling it “a historic understanding with Iran which, if implemented, will prevent it from obtaining a nuclear weapon.


On Thursday evening, Zarif told reporters the latest agreement allows Iran to keep operating its nuclear program.

“None of those measures” that will move to scale back Iran’s program “include closing any of our facilities,” Zarif said. “We will continue enriching; we will continue research and development.”

So which one is lying?

[TeyshaBlue]

Iranian facesave.

They're not known for being straight shooters.

[CosmicCowboy]

Iranian facesave.

They're not known for being straight shooters.

Sadly the same thing can be said about our President.

In this case I suspect the Iranian version is closer to the truth.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So which one is lying?

:lol you think the two positions are mutually exclusive?

your other link says that Iran argued about the nature of the details and not that a framework deal had not been reached.

[CosmicCowboy]

You have reading difficulties? US version says they have to halt their program and THEN sanctions will be lifted. Iranian version is sanctions will be lifted and THEN they will modify but not stop their program.

Huge difference.

I realize you just like to bite my ankles and argue with me but it is what it is. It's right there in black and white. Iran says the deal the US announced isn't the deal at all.

[CosmicCowboy]

The Iranian citizens are dancing in the street's that sanctions might be lifted.

US needs to stand firm and let Iranian popular pressure push the government to meet our demands. This is no time to be weak. You gotta be willing to walk away when you are negotiating.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You have reading difficulties? US version says they have to halt their program and THEN sanctions will be lifted. Iranian version is sanctions will be lifted and THEN they will modify but not stop their program.

Huge difference.

I realize you just like to bite my ankles and argue with me but it is what it is. It's right there in black and white. Iran says the deal the US announced isn't the deal at all.

That wasn't what you selected in your argument above. What you quoted said nothing of sanctions. You are intellectually dishonest with this bait and switch bullshit.

And :lol I started the thread you come in saying there is no deal arguing my post. Now when I respond I'm following you? :lol What a fucking idiot.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So is your fatass in front of the TV watching Fox News, CC?

[CosmicCowboy]

That wasn't what you selected in your argument above. What you quoted said nothing of sanctions. You are intellectually dishonest with this bait and switch bullshit.

And :lol I started the thread you come in saying there is no deal arguing my post. Now when I respond I'm following you? :lol What a fucking idiot.

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/chihuahua%20angry.JPG

:lmao

Fuck off ankle biter.

It's right there in black and white. Iranians say the deal the US announced isn't the deal.

You can't possibly try to argue that that is not true just out of desire to chew on my ankles.

[CosmicCowboy]

So is your fatass in front of the TV watching Fox News, CC?

No, actually my bony ass is right here at work.

Something I'm sure is foreign to you.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

http://blogs.riverfronttimes.com/dailyrft/chihuahua%20angry.JPG

:lmao

Fuck off ankle biter.

It's right there in black and white. Iranians say the deal the US announced isn't the deal.

You can't possibly try to argue that that is not true just out of desire to chew on my ankles.

You trust the Iranians over Kerry and the state department. That 's great.

Look fatty. WE both know that due to your knee you have not been able to get around. We also know you have poor impulse control. How much weight have you put on?

I mean by all means call me a dog in an effort to dehumanize me. I will continue to point out truths, fatty. I still would like to know what you did to your brother that ended up with him dying of an overdose.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

No, actually my bony ass is right here at work.

Something I'm sure is foreign to you.

How much did you gross last year?

[boutons_deux]

right wingers ALWAYS with the bullshit.

It's framework agreement, a basis the binding deal due in 3 months.

The Western sanctions, NOT Repug/Israeli war mongering, that played a huge factor in Iran's side.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao

You are losing so bad you sink to random fat accusations?

You are clearly too stupid to even be embarrassed by your incompetence.

And yeah, in this instance I trust the Iranians version over Obama's. Obama is so desperate for any foreign policy legacy agreement that he will give the store away now for ANY agreement and let the next President sort out the mess.

[CosmicCowboy]

How much did you gross last year?

If I told you you wouldn't believe me anyway. I probably paid more taxes last year than you earned.

[DarrinS]

Why the hell does he want to know your gross income???

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao

You are losing so bad you sink to random fat accusations?

You are clearly too stupid to even be embarrassed by your incompetence.

And yeah, in this instance I trust the Iranians version over Obama's. Obama is so desperate for any foreign policy legacy agreement that he will give the store away now for ANY agreement and let the next President sort out the mess.

You and I both know it is not random.

You stated that you 'tried to get your brother into rehab," that he was "estranged from the family," how he called the law on you and your guns in reprisal for what you had done and how you hid them from the cops, and that he "died of an overdose."

You told us all about your knee surgery and how you have been having to deal with it for months. You have demonstrated repeatedly with how you have poor impulse control.

How much weight did you put on? What did you do to 'try and get him into rehab?'

That is the thing, you are the blustering fuck that isn't ashamed of anything yet you won't answer these questions. It's transparent.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

If I told you you wouldn't believe me anyway. I probably paid more taxes last year than you earned.

Right back at you, coward. You talk a lot and that is about the extent of it.

[DarrinS]

Ick. I'm outta here.

[TheSanityAnnex]

You and I both know it is not random.

You stated that you 'tried to get your brother into rehab," that he was "estranged from the family," how he called the law on you and your guns in reprisal for what you had done and how you hid them from the cops, and that he "died of an overdose."

You told us all about your knee surgery and how you have been having to deal with it for months. You have demonstrated repeatedly with how you have poor impulse control.

How much weight did you put on? What did you do to 'try and get him into rehab?'

That is the thing, you are the blustering fuck that isn't ashamed of anything yet you won't answer these questions. It's transparent.

You've obviously been losing sleep after hearing about his cousin. What a sad life you live.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ick. I'm outta here.

Bye. He's been telling me how he makes more money that I do for a long time and had just taken another shot at my work. You're pretty melodramatic though. I noticed you ran away from the climate thread after I showed you what the study in question said once again.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You've obviously been losing sleep after hearing about his cousin. What a sad life you live.

Now THAT is random. My fan club is congregating though!

[boutons_deux]

:lmao

I trust the Iranians version over Obama's. Obama is so desperate for any foreign policy legacy agreement that he will give the store away now for ANY agreement

how does the "Iranian version" differ from the the West's version?

what has the West given away here?

[CosmicCowboy]

You and I both know it is not random.

You stated that you 'tried to get your brother into rehab," that he was "estranged from the family," how he called the law on you and your guns in reprisal for what you had done and how you hid them from the cops, and that he "died of an overdose."

You told us all about your knee surgery and how you have been having to deal with it for months. You have demonstrated repeatedly with how you have poor impulse control.

How much weight did you put on? What did you do to 'try and get him into rehab?'

That is the thing, you are the blustering fuck that isn't ashamed of anything yet you won't answer these questions. It's transparent.

Fuzzyboo is getting eerily stalkerish. He is really obsessing about my personal life.

[Warlord23]

You have reading difficulties? US version says they have to halt their program and THEN sanctions will be lifted. Iranian version is sanctions will be lifted and THEN they will modify but not stop their program.

Huge difference.

I realize you just like to bite my ankles and argue with me but it is what it is. It's right there in black and white. Iran says the deal the US announced isn't the deal at all.

Hate to break it to you, but the Washington Free Beacon is more of a conservative entertainment site than a news outlet. Both sides will try and sell this as a victory to their local audiences. The deal, if it breaks, will not crumble because they disagree on the sequence of actions.

You might think that Obama is either lying or incompetent, but are you saying that the UK, France, Germany, Russia and China are in the same boat as well?

[CosmicCowboy]

Hate to break it to you but direct quotes are direct quotes. Are you saying the Iranians didn't say that the deal the US announced isn't really the deal?

[boutons_deux]

isn't really the deal?

no, it's only a non-binding agreement, a framework, a step on the way to a binding "deal" targeted for 1 July.

The Congressional Repugs will continue to fuck it up. It's what Repugs do, at all levels.

The West and the world appreciates you rightwingnuts' good-faith support in trying to stabilize just some what you Repugs fucked up in the Middle East.

[Warlord23]

Spinning a story based on 3 or 4 tweets from the Iranian guy and adding statements like "lashed out at the Obama administration for lying", "accused the Obama administration of misleading the American people", "went on to push back against claims by Kerry" etc is exactly what the Free Beacon is known for. Those are not direct quotes at all. However, the story is written in a way where people will take them to be direct quotes.

There are several other real news outlets which have blogged / covered Zarif's press conference. Nothing like what the WFB makes it out to be.

[Warlord23]

Also have a look at the joint statement released by Zarif and the EU representative: http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2015/150402_03_en.htm

[TeyshaBlue]

Damn...I thought you said Free Bacon. :depressed

[CosmicCowboy]

Oh. I understand now. It's a non binding agreement they don't agree on. Got it.

[ChumpDumper]

So which one is lying?Neither from those statements.

I think you didn't read anything but conservativeblowhard.com for this one.

[The Reckoning]

Sadly the same thing can be said about our President.

In this case I suspect the Iranian version is closer to the truth.


how unamerican of you

[Infinite_limit]

My thoughts

- Civilization is progressing
- Obama hits another foreign policy home-run
- Jews are so bitter

[CosmicCowboy]

Guess we will know in a few months.

[Th'Pusher]

Whenever CC is too embarrassed to post his source, you know something's up.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Whenever CC is too embarrassed to post his source, you know something's up.

Yup just like when he dodges questions on topics he brought up.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Fuzzyboo is getting eerily stalkerish. He is really obsessing about my personal life.

You spammed us with the subject a few days ago looking for pity. Stalking implies I went looking when in fact you trumpeted for the whole world to read. You wanted pity for your injury and got pilled out and told us about how you were involved in what led up to your brother's death. That's on you, old man.

I am interested to know why you don't want to tell us what you did to your brother for him to seek reprisal.

[CosmicCowboy]

They were direct quotes and neither of you ankle biting bitches can deny it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Spinning a story based on 3 or 4 tweets from the Iranian guy and adding statements like "lashed out at the Obama administration for lying", "accused the Obama administration of misleading the American people", "went on to push back against claims by Kerry" etc is exactly what the Free Beacon is known for. Those are not direct quotes at all. However, the story is written in a way where people will take them to be direct quotes.

There are several other real news outlets which have blogged / covered Zarif's press conference. Nothing like what the WFB makes it out to be.


Also have a look at the joint statement released by Zarif and the EU representative: http://eeas.europa.eu/statements-eeas/2015/150402_03_en.htm


They were direct quotes and neither of you ankle biting bitches can deny it.

You going to respond to the rebuttal or are you just going with your normal lazy half-assed tripe, bro-killer?

[pgardn]

Positive development.

We will see.

[ChumpDumper]

They were direct quotes and neither of you ankle biting bitches can deny it.And neither appeared to be lying.

What point is your blog trying to make?

the only discrepancy i could see might be the characterization and timing of the sanction lifting, but I haven't seen the actual language of the framework yet.

[CosmicCowboy]

You spammed us with the subject a few days ago looking for pity. Stalking implies I went looking when in fact you trumpeted for the whole world to read. You wanted pity for your injury and got pilled out and told us about how you were involved in what led up to your brother's death. That's on you, old man.

I am interested to know why you don't want to tell us what you did to your brother for him to seek reprisal.

I find your obsession with my personal life to be extremely comical.

Pathetic, but comical...:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

And neither appeared to be lying.

What point is your blog trying to make?

the only discrepancy i could see might be the characterization and timing of the sanction lifting, but I haven't seen the actual language of the framework yet.

I read the whole summary put out by the state department and I read the Iranians response.

[ChumpDumper]

I read the whole summary put out by the state department and I read the Iranians response.And?

[ElNono]

http://zeropeoplefoundthishelpful.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Thanks-Obama-10.gif

[Th'Pusher]

They were direct quotes and neither of you ankle biting bitches can deny it.
:lol why did you feel the need to conceal your source?

What is it specifically that is supposed to concern us about these "direct quotes"?

[Trill Clinton]

well this is a loss for the warmongering thugs here in americahttp://i58.tinypic.com/6oesfq.png

thanks, obama

[boutons_deux]

Bibi really wants US $Bs and bodies to go to war with Iran

Netanyahu: Israeli Cabinet United In Opposition To Iran Nuclear Deal

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/04/03/israel-iran-nuclear-deal_n_6999328.html?ir=World&utm_campaign=040315&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Alert-world&utm_content=FullStory&ncid=newsltushpmg00000003

Well, yeah, most of the cabinet is Bibi's extreme rightwingnut Likud

[boutons_deux]

Goddam, you Repugs are fucking insane

McCain Suggests Israel "Go Rogue," Blow Up Iran Negotiations By Starting War

McCAIN: The Israelis will need to chart their own path of resistance.

On the Iranian nuclear deal, they may have to go rogue.

Let's hope their warnings have not been mere bluffs.

Israel survived its first 19 years without meaningful U.S. patronage.

For now, all it has to do is get through the next 22, admittedly long, months.

http://www.alternet.org/mccain-suggests-israel-go-rogue-blow-iran-negotiations-starting-war

so McLiar hopes Israel bombs Iran. Thanks, Repugs!

get through "22 months" then a Repug Pres will bomb Iran? WTF?

[pgardn]

A huge positive overlooked is the underlying progressive force that exists in this country. It is large and has a western tinge. The middle class in this country understands the importance of freedom from the whims of various local religious extremists. Economic prosperity could be a huge factor in causing an evolution of the political/religious system. It is already tilting.

Patience. This could become a country more along the lines of Turkey and without a dictator. Got to give this a chance. There is also a significant intellectual movement that the extremists factions have left alone. This indicates it would be politically unwise to mess with the intellectuals. This is very significant imo.

[CosmicCowboy]

I guess I'm the only one that remembers that most of the current sanctions on Iran are there because Iran wouldn't comply with the LAST agreements and refused access of the IAEA to verify it's compliance.

[ChumpDumper]

I guess I'm the only one that remembers that most of the current sanctions on Iran are there because Iran wouldn't comply with the LAST agreements and refused access of the IAEA to verify it's compliance.And?

There are clear consequences if they fall to comply again.

It's not like the US and others can't reinstate sanctions.

Besides, you're just moving the goalposts now. ANY agreement would require verification. You are now arguing against any agreement at all.

[ChumpDumper]

A huge positive overlooked is the underlying progressive force that exists in this country. It is large and has a western tinge. The middle class in this country understands the importance of freedom from the whims of various local religious extremists. Economic prosperity could be a huge factor in causing an evolution of the political/religious system. It is already tilting.

Patience. This could become a country more along the lines of Turkey and without a dictator. Got to give this a chance. There is also a significant intellectual movement that the extremists factions have left alone. This indicates it would be politically unwise to mess with the intellectuals. This is very significant imo.One thing of note was that Iran broadcast Obama's statement live on state TV. I believe that is without precedent.

[CosmicCowboy]

And?

There are clear consequences if they fall to comply again.

It's not like the US and others can't reinstate sanctions.

Besides, you're just moving the goalposts now. ANY agreement would require verification. You are now arguing against any agreement at all.

Not arguing against it. Just pointing out that compliance has always been the issue. Leaving all the enriched uranium in country instead of shipping it to Russia as original agreed leaves a huge fudge area.

I realize, however that I seem to be the only one in here that has reservations on the Iranians sincerity to actually comply THIS time after all the other times they didn't.

[ChumpDumper]

Not arguing against it. Just pointing out that compliance has always been the issue. Leaving all the enriched uranium in country instead of shipping it to Russia as original agreed leaves a huge fudge area.

I realize, however that I seem to be the only one in here that has reservations on the Iranians sincerity to actually comply THIS time after all the other times they didn't.If they don't comply things go back to where they are now.

What exactly are you arguing here?

[boutons_deux]

"reservations on the Iranians sincerity to actually comply THIS time"

I figure the Repugs will bomb Iran for "regime change" even if Iran allows Western inspectors to climb up their assholes, just like the Repugs did to Saddam to get at his oil.

Iran knows how the US ambassador told Saddam the US woudn't mind if he invaded Kuwait. And how the Repugs pulled inspectors out of compliant Iraq to invade it.


So WTF should Iran trust the West?

Leaving the nuke material in Iran was critical to Iran, having spent probably $10Bs to produce it for their reactors.

As I said above, both Israeli and US intelligence say Iran has no nuclear weapons program.

People are surprised at how much the West obtained so far, not how little, and the negotiations aren't over until 1 July.

btw, Iran's theocracy is a direct descendant of the CIA/UK overthrow of democratically elected Mossadegh in the early 50s to install the Shah. Iran's hostility to the West is BLOWBACK for US/UK intervention in their country.

[ChumpDumper]

True. If Iran had overthrown the Eisenhower administration to install a dictator, we as a nation would probably remember it, no?

[Nbadan]

Netanyahu and his group of thugs in the US congress that do the bidding for Israel won't let this agreement work...they won't give it time to work....they will not settle for anything less than Invading Iran with US air power and troops and regime change....right now, McCain, Cotton and the rest of thugs are hoping Israel bombs Iran and then the US has no choice but intervene...

[Nbadan]

Crude-oil prices fell Thursday after six world powers and Iran announced they had agreed on a framework to curb Iran’s nuclear drive.


The US benchmark, West Texas Intermediate (WTI) for May delivery, shed 95 cents to close at $49.14 a barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

Brent North Sea crude for delivery in May, the global benchmark futures contract, slumped to $54.98 in late London trade, a sharp decline of $2.12 from Wednesday’s closing level.

The market has been following the marathon negotiations closely, estimating that an agreement could lift sanctions against Iran, allowing the return of Iranian crude to an oversupplied global market.

-snip-

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/oil-price-falls-as-iran-nuclear-framework-reached/

[boutons_deux]

Tehran could raise output by around 500,000 bpd within six months if the restrictions are removed, and by an additional 700,000 bpd within another year, according to estimates by Facts Global Energy.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/102547249

IRan supposedly have 300M+ barrels in storage, ready to dump on the world for $Bs ASAP.

[CosmicCowboy]

The combination of full domestic storage facilities and the addition of Iranian crude could easily put WTI in the 30's and they will have to start closing in wells in Texas because of the combination of low prices and lack of storage. Once that happens the natural gas byproduct of oil production will stop too and NG prices (and your CPS utility bills) will rise.

[ChumpDumper]

So we shouldn't have an agreement because your utility bill will rise a few dollars?

[CosmicCowboy]

Fuck off Chump. I didn't say that and you know it. You are just being your usual bitch self.

[ChumpDumper]

Your spin on this deal is hilarious. Well I've seen some of your economic predictions fail before.

[pgardn]

The Iranian leadership also still has to convince their radical elements to back off just like we do.

As always, the extreme elements on both sides will have to be overcome, it may even be a taller order for them.
Funny how the most distrustful hateful elements on both sides really work together. If Israel tries unilaterally to submarine this, our relationship must undergo a meaningful reassessment. When Y. Rabin was assassinated by an ultra Israeli right winger the radical Muslims breathed a sigh of relief, the hate they thrive on, would continue.

[boutons_deux]

Let's say the asshole Repugs all y'all ignorant rednecks elected kill the Iranian deal.

What next?

[CosmicCowboy]

Your spin on this deal is hilarious. Well I've seen some of your economic predictions fail before.

At least I have the balls to make predictions based on the facts available.

All you do is ankle bite.

[ChumpDumper]

At least I have the balls to make predictions based on the facts available.

All you do is ankle bite.Eh, I make fun of people who think they can make such predictions.

Having balls would be admitting just how wrong those predictions have been.

[boutons_deux]

Conservatives Trash Iran Deal Framework That Experts Call "A Very Convincing Agreement"
( has a list quote from the expert "pros" and and from the conservative "assholes" )

http://mediamatters.org/research/2015/04/03/conservatives-trash-iran-deal-framework-that-ex/203169

[TheSanityAnnex]

It is pointless to argue over whether the agreement is good or not as we have no clue what was agreed upon.

[CosmicCowboy]

Eh, I make fun of people who think they can make such predictions.

Having balls would be admitting just how wrong those predictions have been.

Says the forum eunuch.

[ChumpDumper]

Says the forum eunuch.You always end up with the ad hominems.

Does that make you feel like you have balls?

[ChumpDumper]

It is pointless to argue over whether the agreement is good or not as we have no clue what was agreed upon.Sure we do, but the devil will be in the details over the coming months.

[Infinite_limit]

I feel good for them


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4tt6EdxTlg

[boutons_deux]

It is pointless to argue over whether the agreement is good or not as we have no clue what was agreed upon.

speak for yourself. There's plenty info out there.

[Warlord23]

CC, what in your opinion is a credible alternative here?

In 2003, Iran had 200 centrifuges. They now have 19000 despite sanctions. They are ready to handover two-thirds of this to the IAEA. They are also ready to reduce their stock of enriched uranium by 9700 kg. The core of their plutonium reactor will be removed, and spent fuel from this reactor will be handed over. These are upfront actions whose progress can be verified. Even if Iran reneges on other promises like not to enrich uranium beyond 3.7%, not building new facilities, converting Fordow into an R&D facility, allowing inspection across the supply chain etc, this deal still has 2 clear benefits:
1. Reduction of their current capability
2. Longer breakout period, that gives the world more time to respond to Iran's broken promises

Wouldn't you agree that this deal is better than the status quo, even if Iran doesn't follow through on later promises?

[spursncowboys]

We just legitimized Iran having nukes. Congrats Obama: keeping the tradition of screwing up. Now go out and look the other way while Egypt, and Saudia Arabia start their nuclear future.

[ChumpDumper]

We just legitimized Iran having nukes. Congrats Obama: keeping the tradition of screwing up. Now go out and look the other way while Egypt, and Saudia Arabia start their nuclear future.How were they illegitimate?

[TheSanityAnnex]

speak for yourself. There's plenty info out there.

You've read the actual framework? Please share then.

[spursncowboys]

Seriously? CD, I thought you were an adult by now...

[ChumpDumper]

Seriously? CD, I thought you were an adult by now...I mean they have always had a nuclear program.

Israel has nukes, but we're OK with that because why?

[DarrinS]

I mean they have always had a nuclear program.

Israel has nukes, but we're OK with that because why?


Seriously?

[Warlord23]

We just legitimized Iran having nukes. Congrats Obama: keeping the tradition of screwing up. Now go out and look the other way while Egypt, and Saudia Arabia start their nuclear future.

What's your alternative? Status quo, which has resulted in Iran having multiple nuclear reactors and a massive inventory of centrifuges, will certainly result in them getting a nuke. Bombing them will trigger a war that will make Iraq and Afghanistan seem like a walk in the park.

[spursncowboys]

I mean they have always had a nuclear program.

Israel has nukes, but we're OK with that because why?
Those are two different issues. They've had a program, but never the bomb. Are you ok with Iran having nukes? Are you really ok with the lives of entire groups of people in jeopardy because you don't want to be called unfair?

[spursncowboys]

What's your alternative? Status quo, which has resulted in Iran having multiple nuclear reactors and a massive inventory of centrifuges, will certainly result in them getting a nuke. Bombing them will trigger a war that will make Iraq and Afghanistan seem like a walk in the park.
Give them a chance to dismantle and if not...Destroy their nuclear program. "walk in the park" idea would be if we went in to nation build. Just take out their facilities. We don't need to invade. We don't need to fix their government. Just destroy their facilities. It'll take them a decade before it comes up again.

[Warlord23]

Give them a chance to dismantle and if not...Destroy their nuclear program. "walk in the park" idea would be if we went in to nation build. Just take out their facilities. We don't need to invade. We don't need to fix their government. Just destroy their facilities. It'll take them a decade before it comes up again.

Even if you think its a good idea to bomb their facilities (which I disagree with), why wouldn't you do it after they reduce their centrifuges / uranium stock / plutonium core? Shouldn't this make it easier to take out their nuclear assets in the future?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The combination of full domestic storage facilities and the addition of Iranian crude could easily put WTI in the 30's and they will have to start closing in wells in Texas because of the combination of low prices and lack of storage. Once that happens the natural gas byproduct of oil production will stop too and NG prices (and your CPS utility bills) will rise.


So we shouldn't have an agreement because your utility bill will rise a few dollars?


Fuck off Chump. I didn't say that and you know it. You are just being your usual bitch self.

:lol then why did you bring up utility bills rising?

I mean ffs, brokiller, you have two listed causes for your position in this thread.

1) You don't trust Obama as opposed to the Iranians.
2) Your gas bill might go up.

Making a point and then abandoning it completely at the first sign of rebuttal is rank intellectual cowardice.

[spursncowboys]

Even if you think its a good idea to bomb their facilities (which I disagree with), why wouldn't you do it after they reduce their centrifuges / uranium stock / plutonium core? Shouldn't this make it easier to take out their nuclear assets in the future? 1. You're assuming they'd do that. and 2. it takes away all of the sanctions-giving Iran( a country involved in multiple proxy wars) hundreds of billions. It's win-win.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

1. You're assuming they'd do that. and 2. it takes away all of the sanctions-giving Iran( a country involved in multiple proxy wars) hundreds of billions. It's win-win.

We have done the isolation sanction thing for 35 years. It hasn't slowed them down in Israel, Yemen, Lebanon or anywhere else.

[Warlord23]

1. You're assuming they'd do that. and 2. it takes away all of the sanctions-giving Iran( a country involved in multiple proxy wars) hundreds of billions. It's win-win.

If they don't take the initial steps of turning over centrifuges and fissile material, there is a case for using force. Till then, put away the warmongering.

If funding proxy wars is a criterion, Saudi Arabia is much, much worse than Iran. Almost all Islamic terror is of Sunni origin, particularly based on the Wahabi-Salafi doctrine that is Saudi Arabia's biggest export after oil. Iran is Shia, and actually has taken some steps to combat ISIS. This is the reason Saudi Arabia is joining Israel in opposing this deal.

The American people have 2 options in terms of who to trust on this deal:
1. An international coalition comprising the US, the UK, France, Germany, Russia, China and most of the developed world backing them
2. A coalition of 3 parties:
- The Republican party which has a vested interest in not allowing a Democratic president to attain foreign policy success, not to mention the funding that the GOP gets from the US defense companies and oil firms.
- Netanyahua and Likud, who have been crying wolf about Iranian nukes for over 2 decades now
- the House of Said, which seeks to defeat Shia Islam

You all might hate Obama, but there is no way 2 is more credible than 1.

[CosmicCowboy]

There is nothing in the agreement about Iran turning over fissile material to anyone.

[CosmicCowboy]

There is nothing in the agreement about Iran turning any centrifuges over to the IAEA.

[Th'Pusher]

Fugin Pakistan has nukes. Seriously we may be making too much about access to nukes tbh

[Warlord23]

There is nothing in the agreement about Iran turning over fissile material to anyone.

Maybe fissile material is the wrong term, but Iran is agreeing to turn over spent uranium fuel that could be used to produce plutonium

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/2015/04/02/how-both-sides-can-sell-the-iran-nuclear-deal-back-home/
http://www.vox.com/2015/4/2/8336219/iran-nuclear-deal-plain-english

[ChumpDumper]

Seriously?Seriously.

You're OK with that why?


Those are two different issues. They've had a program, but never the bomb. Are you ok with Iran having nukes? Are you really ok with the lives of entire groups of people in jeopardy because you don't want to be called unfair?Straw man.

What do you want to do about it?

Who is in jeopardy?

Dicking around and talking tough didn't do anything to stop North Korea. They have a bomb. What are you going to do about that?

[Warlord23]

There is nothing in the agreement about Iran turning any centrifuges over to the IAEA.

Are you trolling now? Have you read any news source apart from the Free Beacon?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/iran-nuclear-deal-key-details

The embedded PDF ... First paragraph, second page

[Infinite_limit]

Im eating Persian Grill to celebrate!

[ChumpDumper]

Are you trolling now? Have you read any news source apart from the Free Beacon?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/iran-nuclear-deal-key-details

The embedded PDF ... First paragraph, second pageHe is more likely to believe something written in Farsi.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There is nothing in the agreement about Iran turning over fissile material to anyone.


There is nothing in the agreement about Iran turning any centrifuges over to the IAEA.

Does anyone think that CC is coming up with this on his own?

CC is still embarrassed about his sources.

[ElNono]

Those are two different issues. They've had a program, but never the bomb. Are you ok with Iran having nukes? Are you really ok with the lives of entire groups of people in jeopardy because you don't want to be called unfair?

I have zero problems with it. Hopefully they don't take too long to nuke eachother and turn that place into a giant parking lot. Hopefully Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and India all get involved too.

I think it's unavoidable and bound to happen, might as well get it done while I'm alive, so I can enjoy the fireworks.

[Infinite_limit]

Those are two different issues. They've had a program, but never the bomb. Are you ok with Iran having nukes? Are you really ok with the lives of entire groups of people in jeopardy because you don't want to be called unfair?
Just like Iranian lives are in jeopardy because of Israel's nuclear program?

[ElNono]

Just like Iranian lives are in jeopardy because of Israel's nuclear program?

but they hate 'Murica.

[boutons_deux]

We just legitimized Iran having nukes.

You Lie

[Winehole23]

Noonan’s complaint about the nuclear deal doesn’t many sense, either. She worries about a “bad deal” that will only “slow the deadly project, not end it.” Anything that does slow the development of Iran’s nuclear program would be an improvement over the old status quo, and under the framework agreed this week the program will be put under more significant restrictions than it has had before. Like many Iran hawks, Noonan is annoyed that the administration has not achieved the impossible goal of “ending” the entire program. Noonan is making it sound as if “ending” Iran’s entire nuclear program could be achieved through greater “political pressure through increased economic sanctions.” We have every reason to believe that this wouldn’t happen. This is the path that was pursued for a decade when the previous administration refused to make a deal on much more favorable terms. Besides, ratcheting up economic pressure takes for granted that this would make Iran capitulate, and it assumes that international support for stricter sanctions would continue indefinitely. Neither assumption is valid. We know from the North Korean example that the opposite reaction to greater pressure is more likely, and there is every reason to think that most of Iran’s trading partners are eager to get back to doing business as usual.http://www.theamericanconservative.com/larison/

[Winehole23]

if followed up with a deal this summer, these would be significant:



According to European officials, roughly 5,000 centrifuges will remain spinning enriched uranium at the main nuclear site at Natanz, about half the number currently running. The giant underground enrichment site at Fordo – which Israeli and some American officials fear is impervious to bombing – will be partly converted to advanced nuclear research and the production of medical isotopes. Foreign scientists will be present. There will be no fissile material present that could be used to make a bomb.


A major reactor at Arak, which officials feared could produce plutonium, would operate on a limited basis that would not provide enough fuel for a bomb.

same

[Winehole23]

Trita Parsi counterblasts the hawks:

http://nationalinterest.org/feature/confirmed-the-hawks-were-wrong-iran-12538

[Winehole23]

If this deal is fully implemented, Iran will be unable to build a nuclear bomb by enriching uranium or by reprocessing plutonium for at least 10 years. Some of the restrictions imposed by this deal would last 15 years. The international inspections of certain aspects of Iran’s nuclear program would stay in place for 25 years.



As for the economic sanctions against Iran, they would be lifted not upon the deal’s signing, as the Iranians initially demanded, but only after the inspectors have verified that Iran has fulfilled all of its commitments in the deal.

These commitments include reducing the number of Iran’s installed centrifuges by two-thirds (from about 19,000 to 6,104, with only 5,060 allowed to enrich uranium); reducing its stockpile of enriched uranium by 97 percent (from 10,000 kilograms to 300 kilograms); to remove all advanced centrifuges (those that can enrich uranium at a much faster rate) and to place them in internationally monitored storage; to destroy the core of the Arak heavy-water reactor (which could produce a plutonium bomb), ship all its spent fuel out of the country, and forgo additional reprocessing; among other things.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2015/04/iranian_nuclear_deal_is_a_breakthrough_why_the_agr eement_is_the_best_option.html

[boutons_deux]

Whine whore . With the windmill reverse 360 slam dunk

Bitch slapping the obama hatin war mongers

[SupremeGuy]

Over/under for Iranian nukes? 5 years?

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/war_stories/2015/04/iranian_nuclear_deal_is_a_breakthrough_why_the_agr eement_is_the_best_option.html

Sounds wonderful. I read the complete US version too.

Anyone in here want to put some money down that the final deal is really that strict when it's signed?

I'll match $100 bets from anyone that wants to play. I say it's watered down extensively and economic sanctions will be lifted gradually with some lifted just for signing.

That's easy money.

[Winehole23]

refusing to negotiate and ramping up sanctions has been a proven failure. a flawed deal beats no deal -- easy money.

[CosmicCowboy]

So everyone in here agrees to the carrot without the stick approach and that any deal is better than no deal?

hmmm...OK.

[Infinite_limit]

Over/under for Iranian nukes? 5 years?
Hopefully under. Iranian nukes would bring stability to the region. Jews are running amok at the moment

[ChumpDumper]

So everyone in here agrees to the carrot without the stick approach and that any deal is better than no deal?

hmmm...OK.What should the stick be if not renewed sanctions?

[CosmicCowboy]

What should the stick be if not renewed sanctions?

You are a smart guy. You could obviously come up with some options if you thought about it. Additional sanctions, Building a coalition for military intervention, etc.

[SupremeGuy]

Hopefully under. Iranian nukes would bring stability to the region. Jews are running amok at the moment:lol

[boutons_deux]

So everyone in here agrees to the carrot without the stick approach and that any deal is better than no deal?

hmmm...OK.

sanctions, esp limiting Iran's oil sales, has STICKed Iran seriously. Iranians anticipating sanctions lifting were in the streets celebrating all night.

[ChumpDumper]

You are a smart guy. You could obviously come up with some options if you thought about it. Additional sanctions, Building a coalition for military intervention, etc.How are those off the table?

I need to see the language that says those options are specifically excluded if the Iranians do not meet the terms of the framework.

[Trill Clinton]

CC wants a war sooooooo bad

[SupremeGuy]

Not wanting a crazy ass country to have weapons of mass destruction =/= wanting war

[Trill Clinton]

a bunch of crazy ass countries have weapons of mass destruction. most of them are RIGHT next to iran.

[SupremeGuy]

Just because other countries have nukes doesn't mean we should just start letting every crazy country have them, tbh.

[Trill Clinton]

is not up to us to decide who does or doesn't get to have a nuclear program. no country should have a moral or legal authority to refuse iran the right to nukes. america is no threat to nuclear weapons from iran. working with them and keeping close tabs on their enrichment program is in best interest to america and the world. the last thing we need is another failed state in the middle east.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Sounds wonderful. I read the complete US version too.

Anyone in here want to put some money down that the final deal is really that strict when it's signed?

I'll match $100 bets from anyone that wants to play. I say it's watered down extensively and economic sanctions will be lifted gradually with some lifted just for signing.

That's easy money.

And here we have brokiller lacking articulation and intellecct and trying to cover it up with bluster.

He is continuing to throw shit against the way but now with a bookie!

What a loser.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You are a smart guy. You could obviously come up with some options if you thought about it. Additional sanctions, Building a coalition for military intervention, etc.


Not wanting a crazy ass country to have weapons of mass destruction =/= wanting war

It does when it involves action of a military coalition. What dumbfuck doesn't understand is that our NATO allies are more for this then we are.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao at fuzzyboo calling anyone else a dumbfuck.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao at fuzzyboo calling anyone else a dumbfuck.

Brokiller, are you going to acknowledge teh cause of me saying your were a dumbfuck? Specifically that NATO leadership wants this more than the US does yet you present a counterplan of a military coalition? :lol with who? you?

Or are you going to bluster on one hand to ignore and pretend that all the other people in the thread don't note my point too. You are going to need more than a throw away line for that, dumbfuck.

Youre old, self important, and never going to change. When I speak against you it's not for your benefit. You don't seem to have grasped that concept.

[CosmicCowboy]

Have you even followed these negotiations? France and Germany weren't exactly excited about the concessions. Don't try to pretend our NATO allies forced the us to capitulate.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Have you even followed these negotiations? France and Germany weren't exactly excited about the concessions. Don't try to pretend our NATO allies forced the us to capitulate.

What are they supposed to cheer negotiating concessions? I am talking about the driving force behind getting these negotiations done. The French and German foreign ministers are driving this car just as much or more as we do.

You are the one asserting a military coalition. Where you going to go for Allies? What do you think the foreign ministers are going to respond to that kind of saber rattling? Frankly that is shit that North Korea does and we accuse Iran of doing.

Follow the negotiations? How about you demonstrate a modicum of understanding on how foreign policy works.

[CosmicCowboy]

France and German and russian delegations left the negotiations in disgust when it became obvious that Obama and Kerry were determined to give the store away. Do you live under a rock?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

France and German and russian delegations left the negotiations in disgust when it became obvious that Obama and Kerry were determined to give the store away. Do you live under a rock?

So you have nothing but a partisan narrative. Gotcha. We can see you for what you are now on this position, thanks.

and


http://zeropeoplefoundthishelpful.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Thanks-Obama-10.gif

[FuzzyLumpkins]

CC's version of 'following an issue' is AM radio, Fox News, and partisan blogs that he is too ashamed to source.

[CosmicCowboy]

As usual fuzzyboo is full of shit.

Partisan :lol

Fuzzyboo just likes to ankle bite.

[CosmicCowboy]

Btw fuzzyboo...google is your friend if you want to educate yourself on what France, Germany, and Russia thought about the deal.

[ElNono]

Btw fuzzyboo...google is your friend if you want to educate yourself on what France, Germany, and Russia thought about the deal.

They signed off on it, didn't they?

[CosmicCowboy]

They signed off on it, didn't they?

Doesn't mean they liked it. Like I said, Their feelings about the deal are pretty easy to find if you want to look for them.

[CosmicCowboy]

I am getting tired of pointing out the obvious and getting unanimously slammed for it in here. I don't mind having give and take conversations on the subject but am done with being attacked by belligerent, ignorant trolls like Fuzzy.

I am more than willing to exit this thread today and wait a few months to pull it back and say "I told you so".

[ElNono]

Doesn't mean they liked it. Like I said, Their feelings about the deal are pretty easy to find if you want to look for them.

Why would back up and sign off on a deal they didn't like? What's the running conspiracy here? Barry kidnapped their kids?

I'm sure there's a plethora of op'eds in many languages of people that didn't like the deal. That means absolutely nothing to the fact that the people in charge actually though it was good enough to sign off on it.

[ElNono]

I am getting tired of pointing out the obvious and getting unanimously slammed for it in here. I don't mind having give and take conversations on the subject but am done with being attacked by belligerent, ignorant trolls like Fuzzy.

I am more than willing to exit this thread today and wait a few months to pull it back and say "I told you so".

We just disagree what is "the obvious". The obvious is that Iran is a sovereign nation and they should do as they please within their borders.

The whole world police thingie is played out. Let Israel bomb the fuck out of them if that's what they want to do. Let them hash it out. If there's anything clear about our involvement in that region, is that it's only a matter of time before they go all out at it, because the whole religion bullshit is over the top. If that ever becomes an actual treat to the US, then we'll deal with it, but until then, cordon the region and let them go at it.

[m>s]

Does anyone else not trust a single party to these negotiations? Not the US, not the sand niggas, not israel. I don't know who's Jewing who or what to root for.

[spursncowboys]

If they don't take the initial steps of turning over centrifuges and fissile material, there is a case for using force. Till then, put away the warmongering.

If funding proxy wars is a criterion, Saudi Arabia is much, much worse than Iran. Almost all Islamic terror is of Sunni origin, particularly based on the Wahabi-Salafi doctrine that is Saudi Arabia's biggest export after oil. Iran is Shia, and actually has taken some steps to combat ISIS. This is the reason Saudi Arabia is joining Israel in opposing this deal.

The American people have 2 options in terms of who to trust on this deal:
1. An international coalition comprising the US, the UK, France, Germany, Russia, China and most of the developed world backing them
2. A coalition of 3 parties:
- The Republican party which has a vested interest in not allowing a Democratic president to attain foreign policy success, not to mention the funding that the GOP gets from the US defense companies and oil firms.
- Netanyahua and Likud, who have been crying wolf about Iranian nukes for over 2 decades now
- the House of Said, which seeks to defeat Shia Islam

You all might hate Obama, but there is no way 2 is more credible than 1.
Not only is it oversimplified, but its wrongGermany and France are against them having nukes and have been complaining like the repubs that it's not a good deal and obama is giving up too much for too little. The coalition of people wanting the obama deal to go through are iran, china, and russia. great company

[spursncowboys]

I am getting tired of pointing out the obvious and getting unanimously slammed for it in here. I don't mind having give and take conversations on the subject but am done with being attacked by belligerent, ignorant trolls like Fuzzy.

I am more than willing to exit this thread today and wait a few months to pull it back and say "I told you so".
That's what people do when they have no logic, and their reason are what a kindergartner would come up with. Plus their talking heads havent given them their answer, because they're doing the same thing.

[spursncowboys]

They signed off on it, didn't they?
No. from the beginning germany and france have been saying they should be apart of the negotiations and that obama's deal is too lenient

[Th'Pusher]

No. from the beginning germany and france have been saying they should be apart of the negotiations and that obama's deal is too lenient

:lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I am getting tired of pointing out the obvious and getting unanimously slammed for it in here. I don't mind having give and take conversations on the subject but am done with being attacked by belligerent, ignorant trolls like Fuzzy.

I am more than willing to exit this thread today and wait a few months to pull it back and say "I told you so".

I'm certainly belligerent but we both know you are full of shit. You bluster more than posit a damn thing. You spout platitudes intent on fixating on the president. It's what the Ailes media empire has been pimping for over 6 years now. One of the reasons why I completely lack respect for you is you are obviously just being their proxy on this board and yet you are coy about your sources. DIRECT QUOTES!

The Germans have been pushing this from the front. The GOP and the Israeli lobby have been very adamant about not negotiating before any of this began and the US delegation has been overshadowed by it the entire time despite Kerry's best efforts. It was Merkel and the German's that insisted and she has gotten all manner of attagirls for forging ahead. Then in the past week the French minister came back and that was when shit got done as evidenced by the agreements of the past few days.

I read Foreign Policy, the Economist, and the CSM every day. I don't need google, dimwit.

[ElNono]

No. from the beginning germany and france have been saying they should be apart of the negotiations and that obama's deal is too lenient

uh?

EU heavyweights Germany and France on Friday cautiously welcomed the framework nuclear agreement struck with Iran but Berlin's chief diplomat warned there was "no guarantee" it would ultimately succeed.

"It's good, but at the same time it's too early to celebrate. We laid the corner stone yesterday," German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said following talks with his French and Polish counterparts in Wroclaw, Poland.

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/iran-nuclear.10lw

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That's what people do when they have no logic, and their reason are what a kindergartner would come up with. Plus their talking heads havent given them their answer, because they're doing the same thing.

I don't watch TV outside of sports. How much Fox News have you watched in the past 3 days? I've talked to you about your sources before. Old habits die hard I guess.

[pgardn]

uh?

EU heavyweights Germany and France on Friday cautiously welcomed the framework nuclear agreement struck with Iran but Berlin's chief diplomat warned there was "no guarantee" it would ultimately succeed.

"It's good, but at the same time it's too early to celebrate. We laid the corner stone yesterday," German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said following talks with his French and Polish counterparts in Wroclaw, Poland.

http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/iran-nuclear.10lw

Pretty much how the Obama administration has framed it.

[ElNono]

There's not going to be an agreement. You don't have to wait until July to figure that one out. And it has nothing to do with the actual contents of a potential agreement.

This is all about image and politics, which is why is largely a waste of time.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There's not going to be an agreement. You don't have to wait until July to figure that one out. And it has nothing to do with the actual contents of a potential agreement.

This is all about image and politics, which is why is largely a waste of time.

ElNonostradamus. Frankly I was surprised they announced any accord at all a couple of days ago.

[ChumpDumper]

No. from the beginning germany and france have been saying they should be apart of the negotiations and that obama's deal is too lenientThen they shouldn't have signed off on the framework.

Why did they sign off on the framework?

[boutons_deux]

Hardliners on All Sides Undermining Iran's Nuclear Talks

Reaching an interim nuclear deal with Iran would have been difficult enough even without hardliners in both Iran and the United States seeking to undermine them.

Many U.S. critics of the draft treaty deny this, however, naively assuming Iran is as weak as it was several decades ago, when foreigner powers could impose policies and even replace governments at will. Not only have such imperialist intrigues become more difficult overall, the reality is that Iran has, for better or worse, reemerged as a major regional power—as it has been for much of the past two and half millennia.

If President Obama and other Western leaders could dictate terms of a nuclear agreement, they certainly would. They realize they cannot, however. Republican opponents of the talks naively want a return to Bush administration policy of threats and ultimatums, during which Iran's nuclear program dramatically expanded. By contrast, thanks to the Obama administration’s insistence on negotiations, the expansion of Iran’s nuclear capabilities has been halted and even rolled back.

Anyone familiar with the process of negotiations is that, in order to get the other party to do what you want them to do, there must be incentives as well as punishment.

Imposing harsh sanctions without the hope of partial relief short of total capitulation is simply unrealistic, especially against a country with a strong a sense of nationalism and a history of humiliation by the West. There must be ways for both sides to declare victory. It now appears that, despite Republican efforts to sabotage such an agreement, this has been achieved.

Though some analysts have stressed the role of the so-called “Israel Lobby” in encouraging Congressional hostility, there is little new in GOP opposition to the administration’s efforts.

The Republican right has consistently opposed arms control treaties, including SALT II, the Nuclear Freeze, the Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty, the Small Arms Treaty, and the ban on weapons outer space. There's no reason they should act differently in this case.

Meanwhile, Iranian negotiators have been faced with pressure from their own hardliners, who have skillfully manipulated Iranians’ strong sense of nationalism in pointing at Western double standards in trying to limit their nuclear program.

Up until the 1970s, the U.S. government encouraged American companies to sell nuclear reactors to the Iranian government, then under the dictatorial rule of the Shah, despite fears that his megalomania would lead him to divert the technology for military purposes.

Despite the subsequent rise of an anti-American regime in that country, the United States is still obligated under the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty to allow signatory states in good standing to have access to peaceful nuclear technology, including nuclear reprocessing, as long as there are sufficient safeguards to prevent weaponization.

The Obama administration justified strict sanctions on Iran on the grounds the country was violating a series of UN Security Council resolutions demanding special restrictions on Iran’s nuclear programs. The Iranians note, however, that not only has the United States blocked enforcement of UN Security Council resolutions targeting Israel, Pakistan, and India—which, unlike Iran, already have nuclear weapons—the United States provides all three countries with nuclear-capable jet fighters and has recently expanded its nuclear cooperation with India.

Iran has joined the vast majority of Middle Eastern countries in calling for the establishment of a nuclear weapons-free zone for the entire Middle East—similar to the NWFZs already established in Africa, Latin America, Southeast Asia, Central Asia, Antarctica, and the South Pacific—in which all nations of the region would be required to give up their nuclear weapons and weapons programs and open up to strict international inspections and forbid foreign countries from bringing nuclear weapons into the region. The Obama administration has failed to support such a proposal, however, instead singling out Iran.

Iranians also point out that the United States, Russia, Great Britain, China, and France, which—along with Germany—are leading the negotiations seeking to restrict its nuclear program are themselves in violation of the Nonproliferation Treaty, article VI of which obligates them “to pursue negotiations in good faith on effective measures relating to cessation of the nuclear arms race at an early date and to nuclear disarmament, and on a treaty on general and complete disarmament under strict and effective international control.”

It is important to remember that the only country to actually use nuclear weapons in combat is the United States, in the 1945 bombings of two Japanese cities, a decision most American political leaders still defend to this day.

Ultimately, the most successful means of curbing the threat of nuclear proliferation in the Middle East is to establish such a law-based region-wide program for disarmament, in which all countries – regardless of their relations with the United States – must be a part.

And, ultimately, the only way to make the world completely safe from the threat of nuclear weapons is for the establishment of a nuclear-free planet, for which the United States – as the largest nuclear power – must take the lead.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/2015/04/05/hardliners-all-sides-undermining-irans-nuclear-talks

[pgardn]

There's not going to be an agreement. You don't have to wait until July to figure that one out. And it has nothing to do with the actual contents of a potential agreement.

This is all about image and politics, which is why is largely a waste of time.

I will hold out some hope.
There are some real possible benefits for both sides.
And Israel.

[spursncowboys]

I don't watch TV outside of sports. How much Fox News have you watched in the past 3 days? I've talked to you about your sources before. Old habits die hard I guess.
much like cliches.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

much like cliches.

You opened that box when you commented on me following 'talking heads.' Your current dissembling speaks clearly enough.

So how much Fox News and AM radio have you consumed? It's a fair question considering the obvious parallel narratives as has been outlined.

[boutons_deux]

Iran’s Leaders Fall Into Line Behind Nuclear Accord

TEHRAN — Since the Islamic Revolution in 1979, Iranian hard-liners have been free to take to the streets and object to any form of compromise with the West, and particularly the United States.

But when a conspicuously small group of hard-liners did so on Tuesday morning in front of the Parliament building, holding up placards and shouting slogans against the nuclear framework agreed to last week in Lausanne, Switzerland, the Iranian Interior Ministry condemned the demonstration as illegal, because the protesters had failed to obtain a permit. There were also very few reporters.

It was perhaps the first time that conservatives — in this case mostly young people genuinely disappointed over the compromises Iran (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/news/international/countriesandterritories/iran/index.html?inline=nyt-geo) has made to reach a nuclear agreement — seemed disconnected from the power structure here.

Analysts say the message from the top is clear: Get with the program.

Senior officials, important clerics, lawmakers and Revolutionary Guards (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/i/islamic_revolutionary_guard_corps/index.html?inline=nyt-org) commanders, who in the past have reflexively opposed any accommodation with the West, now go out of their way to laud Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif and his team of negotiators, as well as the government of President Hassan Rouhani.

(http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/05/world/middleeast/100000003614542.mobile.html)On Tuesday, Gen. Mohammad Ali Jafari, the highest-ranking commander of theRevolutionary Guards (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/i/islamic_revolutionary_guard_corps/index.html?inline=nyt-org) Corps, joined the chorus. “The Iranian nation and the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Corps thank these dear negotiators for their honest attempts and political jihad, and for their resistance on the defined red lines,” the semiofficial Mehr news agency quoted him as saying.

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/04/08/world/middleeast/irans-establishment-closes-ranks-in-support-of-nuclear-accord.html?_r=0

... to be followed by non-stop saber-rattling, LYING, PROPAGANDA from Repugs, the MIC, the Deep State, and BiBi.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao

Obama just caved. Press conference today set the stage for lifting all sanctions for just signing without a single inspection.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

Obama just caved. Press conference today set the stage for lifting all sanctions for just signing without a single inspection.According to whom?

Link, please.

[CosmicCowboy]

It was a White House press conference. Do your own research.

[ChumpDumper]

It was a White House press conference. Do your own research.You didn't watch the press conference.

Which blog told you what to say?

[CosmicCowboy]

Fuck you chump. I watched the fucking words come right out if his mouth. I'm on my phone and I'm not going to do your work for you.

[ChumpDumper]

Fuck you chump. I watched the fucking words come right out if his mouth. I'm on my phone and I'm not going to do your work for you.It's easy enough for you to type all that.

I simply don't believe you.

There's nothing on it anywhere.

So I'm just going to say you made it up.

[CosmicCowboy]

Eat your crow, bitch.

[ChumpDumper]

:lmao

Obama just caved. Press conference today set the stage for lifting all sanctions for just signing without a single inspection.Yep, you made it up.

Typical CC hyperbole.

[m>s]

Yup sure is typical up in here

[CosmicCowboy]

Lol your loyalty to your preconceptions is hilarious.

It is what it is.

[ChumpDumper]

Lol your loyalty to your preconceptions is hilarious.

It is what it is.Your hyperbole is your hyperbole.

You've done it before.

[CosmicCowboy]

Damn Chump. Your google skills suck.

Here you go. New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/18/us/politics/obama-praises-congress-on-iran-and-trade-but-chides-senate-gop-over-nominee.html?_r=0

"It's enough that we can reimpose sanctions quickly"

:lmao

now eat your crow, bitch.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao at chump getting owned and running like a little bitch.

[ChumpDumper]

I got dinner.

lol "all sanctions"

CC hyperbole.

[CosmicCowboy]

Is what it is. Next fold will be on inspections. He is desperate for a legacy agreement.

Damn chump, I never realized you were such an Obama apologist.

[m>s]

I got dinner.

lol "all sanctions"

CC hyperbole.
Probably pasta or something low in protein

[ChumpDumper]

Is what it is. Next fold will be on inspections. He is desperate for a legacy agreement.

Damn chump, I never realized you were such an Obama apologist.Nah, I'm fine with the direction of the negotiations so far.

It is what it is.

[ChumpDumper]

Probably pasta or something low in proteinHoly shit you are so into me.

[m>s]

Holy shit you are so into me.
Confirmed for low protein scrawny beta

[ChumpDumper]

Confirmed for low protein scrawny betam<s, mining for data on men on a Friday night.

[m>s]

You're a normalfag and a conformist. For me every day is whatever day I want it to be.

[ChumpDumper]

You're a normalfag and a conformist. For me every day is whatever day I want it to be.And you have devoted your day to me.

Just like you want.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Damn Chump. Your google skills suck.

Here you go. New York Times

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/18/us/politics/obama-praises-congress-on-iran-and-trade-but-chides-senate-gop-over-nominee.html?_r=0

"It's enough that we can reimpose sanctions quickly"

:lmao

now eat your crow, bitch.

That doesn't say what you claim.


“How sanctions are lessened, how we snap back sanctions if there’s a violation, there are a lot of different mechanisms and ways to do that,” Mr. Obama said at a White House news conference alongside the Italian prime minister, Matteo Renzi. The negotiators, Mr. Obama said, need to “find formulas that get to our main concerns while allowing the other side to make a presentation to their body politic that is more acceptable.”

[m>s]

And you have devoted your day to me.

Just like you want.
Hardly, I shit on you periodically in between doing other things. I know you envision me sitting at my desktop in ghe basement working hard on these posts but we can't all be like you.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It's easy enough for you to type all that.

I simply don't believe you.

There's nothing on it anywhere.

So I'm just going to say you made it up.

I've found that it is easier to just look up the quotes and the main points. It's obvious that they do not do their thinking for themselves and they are ashamed of it because they don't like being made fun of for being spoonfed their politics and having the same integrity as boutox.

For example google "obama caves Iran" and look up the latest news and videos. Breitbart and Fox News front and center.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Hardly, I shit on you periodically in between doing other things. I know you envision me sitting at my desktop in ghe basement working hard on these posts but we can't all be like you.

Yeah but when you keep on coming back to him, it is what it is. You are trying to troll but are being trolled alike.

[ChumpDumper]

Hardly, I shit on you periodically in between doing other things. I know you envision me sitting at my desktop in ghe basement working hard on these posts but we can't all be like you.I envision your posting about me all day.

Which is what you do.

And what you want.

[m>s]

I envision your posting about me all day.

Which is what you do.

And what you want.
You still have a few crumbs in your neckbeard carb boy

[ChumpDumper]

You still have a few crumbs in your neckbeard carb boyAre you on a diet or something?

You seem hangry.

[pgardn]

Long way to go.

Nothing signed, agree to keep negotiating.
From what I understand it looks like Obama wants to give Congress a peripheral say but really leave foreign treaties in the hands of the president. So a back down of sorts, but not really. Europe could actually help this along by lifting sanctions before the U.S. if it comes to this.

[CosmicCowboy]

I've found that it is easier to just look up the quotes and the main points. It's obvious that they do not do their thinking for themselves and they are ashamed of it because they don't like being made fun of for being spoonfed their politics and having the same integrity as boutox.

For example google "obama caves Iran" and look up the latest news and videos. Breitbart and Fox News front and center.

Why don't you just watch Obama himself? Words mean words. Are you that vacuous and stupid? It is what it is and you are still an ankle biting bitch.

[ChumpDumper]

I've found that it is easier to just look up the quotes and the main points. It's obvious that they do not do their thinking for themselves and they are ashamed of it because they don't like being made fun of for being spoonfed their politics and having the same integrity as boutox.

For example google "obama caves Iran" and look up the latest news and videos. Breitbart and Fox News front and center.Yeah, that's what I did. It would be stupid for Obama to be talking about finer negotiating points. CC is acting like he's negotiating during the press conference.

[Infinite_limit]

the West got greedy in negotiations so the Russians and Chinese swooped in

:lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why don't you just watch Obama himself? Words mean words. Are you that vacuous and stupid? It is what it is and you are still an ankle biting bitch.

Why don't you quote the actual, complete substantive things Obama said or link the material rather than characterize it in oversimplified stupidity and then accuse other people of not watching? Who is to say I haven't watched either, Obamawatcher? You just make up drivel as you go along.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Here is the bulletin of Atomic Scientists actually discussing the issue comprehensively for people that want more substance than a dumb old man waving his hands.

http://thebulletin.org/why-framework-nuclear-agreement-iran-good-both-sides8152

[Agloco]

There is nothing in the agreement about Iran turning over fissile material to anyone.


There is nothing in the agreement about Iran turning any centrifuges over to the IAEA.

Read it again.

[CosmicCowboy]

Why don't you quote the actual, complete substantive things Obama said or link the material rather than characterize it in oversimplified stupidity and then accuse other people of not watching? Who is to say I haven't watched either, Obamawatcher? You just make up drivel as you go along.

I linked the source ( New York Times) and you even quoted it. Obama was trying to spin it like a top but he acknowledged they were going to have to drop sanctions completely just to get them to sign.

[CosmicCowboy]

The next concession will be on inspections. Iran has already said the IAE would not be allowed unlimited access.

So now you have an agreement that waives all sanctions and limits inspections. What kind of agreement is that?

[ChumpDumper]

The famous CC prediction machine is back in action.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lol chump.

I was certainly right that Iran was going to get sanctions lifted just for signing.

You and fuzzy Babyboo said I was wrong. Turns out you were wrong.

Ill be right about this one too.

[ChumpDumper]

You said all sanctions.

I said it was hyperbole.

You immediately walked back and took out "all."

lol CC

[CosmicCowboy]

All sanctions bitch. Is what it is. :lol chump.

[ChumpDumper]

CC hyperbole is CC hyperbole. lol CC.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao @ chump.

You and fuzzy Babyboo make a hell of a fagtag team.

You are just incapable of accepting the reality that I'm right on this one

[ChumpDumper]

But you aren't.

You said all sanctions. I said hyperbole.

I'm going by your track record of hyperbole.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I linked the source ( New York Times) and you even quoted it. Obama was trying to spin it like a top but he acknowledged they were going to have to drop sanctions completely just to get them to sign.

I quoted indicating that it didn't say remove all sanctions.

We get that you and your ilk are no compromise no deal no matter what but this is just stupid, brokiller.

[CosmicCowboy]

Dumbass. Iran already said no sanctions or no deal. Why do you think Obama just moved the goalpost?

That memorandum of understanding published by the administration was bullshit from the start and they knew it. They just wanted the gullible ones like you to fall for it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Btw you thinking brokiller is some kind of insult just shows how stupid you really are.

[Trill Clinton]

obama sure has a way to get old ass CC to act like a child.

[CosmicCowboy]

Peanut gallery

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Dumbass. Iran already said no sanctions or no deal. Why do you think Obama just moved the goalpost?

That memorandum of understanding published by the administration was bullshit from the start and they knew it. They just wanted the gullible ones like you to fall for it.

It's not all or nothing dumbed down binary stupidity no matter how much you wave your hands at the reasoning.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Btw you thinking brokiller is some kind of insult just shows how stupid you really are.

You contributed to the estrangement and thus death of your brother and still talk shit about him.

That you whine about it belies your statement, brokiller.

[CosmicCowboy]

I wasn't responsible for his bad decisions so fuck off pissant.

[spursncowboys]

It's not all or nothing dumbed down binary stupidity no matter how much you wave your hands at the reasoning.
Obama said it was a deal or war. So anyone against the deal wanted war. Why would the Emperor lie? I'm sure it's all or nothing

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Obama said it was a deal or war. So anyone against the deal wanted war. Why would the Emperor lie? I'm sure it's all or nothing

Link? You guys have no credibility on this subject at this point.

[CosmicCowboy]

:lmao @ fuzzyboo talking about credibility :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

:lmao @ fuzzyboo talking about credibility :lol

I link and source my assertions. I never claimed to hold myself to a different standard, brokiller.

[spursncowboys]

Link? You guys have no credibility on this subject at this point.
"So when you hear the inevitable critics of the deal sound off, ask them a simple question," Obama said. "Do you really think that this verifiable deal, if fully implemented, backed by the world's major powers, is a worse option than the risk of another war in the Middle East?" -The Emperor
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/02/us-iran-nuclear-obama-statement-idUSKBN0MT26L20150402

[spursncowboys]

Fuzzy (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=17812)Lumpkins what state do you live in?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

"So when you hear the inevitable critics of the deal sound off, ask them a simple question," Obama said. "Do you really think that this verifiable deal, if fully implemented, backed by the world's major powers, is a worse option than the risk of another war in the Middle East?" -The Emperor
http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/04/02/us-iran-nuclear-obama-statement-idUSKBN0MT26L20150402

He said risk of war as opposed to your "Obama said it was a deal or war."

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I wasn't responsible for his bad decisions so fuck off pissant.

:lol You won't even say what you did. Shame, brokiller.

[spursncowboys]

So...Why do you keep saying you guys? It's yall, you yankee.

[ChumpDumper]

lol hyperbole brothers