View Full Version : OT: Greater International Player? Ginobli or Pau Gasol?
Thebesteva
04-03-2015, 02:28 AM
Just curious who you guys have as the better international player, given that Dirk is the GOAT international player
AlexJones
04-03-2015, 02:45 AM
Gasol's NBA credentials have him as a HOFer, not sure about Gino
spurraider21
04-03-2015, 02:49 AM
parker
ElNono
04-03-2015, 02:52 AM
You really can't go wrong with any of them, tbh...
Dirk is probably the most talented, has the most NBA accolades, but holds the least amount of hardware and his international resume is pretty shitty (not really his fault, Germany has an awful basketball team and he had no European career).
MVPau is also very talented, has a more balanced resume between NBA and International career, good amount of hardware, won the FIBA Worlds, the only competition Gino did not win in his career.
Gino has the most hardware, solid NBA career, and some pretty unique historical marks on the international stage (Olympic gold medal, leader of the only team to beat Team USA w/NBA players twice, one of two players to ever win Olympic gold, Euroleague, NBA).
How you rank them largely depends on what you're looking for. Innate talent, NBA resume, International resume, overall resume, hardware, historic impact...
All 3 are a lock to the HoF.
^getting really creative to try to put them all in the same breath. dirk is the best hands down period.
Monostradamus
04-03-2015, 03:02 AM
Putting any stock whatosoever in non-NBA credentials is fucking retarded. A NCAA title is far more impressive than a Euroleague one, so let's never mention Euroleague here again. Or maybe we can also say Beckham>Messi because of his MLS cup.
spurraider21
04-03-2015, 03:42 AM
Putting any stock whatosoever in non-NBA credentials is fucking retarded. A NCAA title is far more impressive than a Euroleague one, so let's never mention Euroleague here again. Or maybe we can also say Beckham>Messi because of his MLS cup.
when the question is "who is the better international player" i think its safe to say their international accolades are taken into consideration
ElNono
04-03-2015, 04:13 AM
Putting any stock whatosoever in non-NBA credentials is fucking retarded. A NCAA title is far more impressive than a Euroleague one, so let's never mention Euroleague here again. Or maybe we can also say Beckham>Messi because of his MLS cup.
The Hall of Fame does it all the time. I personally rank NBA credentials higher, but that's just me. As Philo said, this is a discussion about international players, might as well go through the entire resume.
ElNono
04-03-2015, 04:16 AM
^getting really creative to try to put them all in the same breath. dirk is the best hands down period.
There's a lot to choose from, depending on what you're looking for. I think Dirk is far and away the most talented of the three. You have to wonder what his European career would've looked like if he didn't come to the NBA so young.
mudyez
04-03-2015, 07:20 AM
Like so many times, it comes down to the value of the non-NBA stuff.
If you see their NBA legacy in a vacuum, you may go with Pau (and of course Dirk), but if you account for international success (especially the Olympics and his role on that team), it's Manu (even over Dirk).
That said: Most Americans may underrate Manu...others probably are not.
Killakobe81
04-03-2015, 07:34 AM
You really can't go wrong with any of them, tbh...
Dirk is probably the most talented, has the most NBA accolades, but holds the least amount of hardware and his international resume is pretty shitty (not really his fault, Germany has an awful basketball team and he had no European career).
MVPau is also very talented, has a more balanced resume between NBA and International career, good amount of hardware, won the FIBA Worlds, the only competition Gino did not win in his career.
Gino has the most hardware, solid NBA career, and some pretty unique historical marks on the international stage (Olympic gold medal, leader of the only team to beat Team USA w/NBA players twice, one of two players to ever win Olympic gold, Euroleague, NBA).
How you rank them largely depends on what you're looking for. Innate talent, NBA resume, International resume, overall resume, hardware, historic impact...
All 3 are a lock to the HoF.
Gino is the biggest winner but arguably the 3rd best player of that group. IDK, I just have a soft spot for gino because he plays so hard. A lot of the attributes that people credit Kobe & Westbrook with: Drive, heart, fearlessness and even recklessness you can say those about gino. (Before DMC comes in with some shitty take about not comparing him to those guys Gino plays more unselfish etc.) I just mean as a competitor and the fire. HE and duncan are my two all-time favorite Spurs.
PAU and Dirk are more alike but clearly Dirk wa sthe better player. Pau with the better post-game. But dirk the better shooter and more proven playoff performer. Without Pau I am short two titles even if he is not MVPau ... Both were considered soft at times but Dirk to me was just more of a true baller and the NBA matters most to me ...so I give him the edge.
1. Dirk
2A. Pau
2B. Manu (but I just love the way this dude played ...)
Cowboys_Wear_Spurs
04-03-2015, 07:42 AM
Both are going to be HOF's. Gasol was first fiddle in Memphis, 2nd in LA. Manu has always been 3rd fiddle to Duncan and Parker throughout his NBA career. Just look at the games in his prime when Parker was out. He avg. like 25+ ppg.
I think Manu could have avg this every night if he was a team's primary scorer. I would take Manu over Gasol because of Manu's uber competitiveness and tenacity. Both are great talented players to say the least.
spursparker9
04-03-2015, 07:52 AM
Both are future HOFs tbh.
hater
04-03-2015, 08:06 AM
Who gives a shit? Niggas are 2 has been scrubs now
Gasol's NBA credentials have him as a HOFer, not sure about Gino
How the fuck Ginobili is not a HOFer ? It`s basketball HOF, so NBA, World and Olympic champion as team leader is HOF
PingPong
04-03-2015, 08:17 AM
Putting any stock whatosoever in non-NBA credentials is fucking retarded. A NCAA title is far more impressive than a Euroleague one, so let's never mention Euroleague here again. Or maybe we can also say Beckham>Messi because of his MLS cup.
Fucking reneck thinking his ass is the center of the world.
:lol:lmao
MateoNeygro
04-03-2015, 09:13 AM
I'd take Manu. He's a fucking winner.
Monostradamus
04-03-2015, 10:57 AM
:lol what other professional sport takes stock in what people do in second-rate, minor leagues? I guess Stephon Marbury is a top 10 PG all-time because of how he dominates in China!
whitemamba
04-03-2015, 11:00 AM
I'd say dirk tbh, he didn't need a batman , or in manus case the avengers.
Clipper Nation
04-03-2015, 11:08 AM
Tough choice, tbh... Manu had to drag a chucking, team-killing cancer in Enrique to wins, MVPau had to do the same with Kirbs.
spurraider21
04-03-2015, 11:10 AM
:lol what other professional sport takes stock in what people do in second-rate, minor leagues? I guess Stephon Marbury is a top 10 PG all-time because of how he dominates in China!
Well, for HOF purposes, it's a basketball hall of fame and not an "nba" hall of fame. And the Chinese league has no nba talent. The European leagues do
Killakobe81
04-03-2015, 11:28 AM
Tough choice, tbh... Manu had to drag a chucking, team-killing cancer in Enrique to wins, MVPau had to do the same with Kirbs.
Although getting tired I have to admit that was funny .., even if you pandering to the base poster ...
100%duncan
04-03-2015, 11:28 AM
Both are going to be HOF's. Gasol was first fiddle in Memphis, 2nd in LA. Manu has always been 3rd fiddle to Duncan and Parker throughout his NBA career. Just look at the games in his prime when Parker was out. He avg. like 25+ ppg.
I think Manu could have avg this every night if he was a team's primary scorer. I would take Manu over Gasol because of Manu's uber competitiveness and tenacity. Both are great talented players to say the least.
Lol
100%duncan
04-03-2015, 11:28 AM
Although getting tired I have to admit that was funny .., even if you pandering to the base poster ...
Hownis that funny its the same shit everday :lol
StrengthAndHonor
04-03-2015, 11:33 AM
How is that funny its the same shit everday :lol
jsandiego
04-03-2015, 11:53 AM
If it's 2004-2005, I'd take Manu
If it's 2009-2010, I'd take Pau
If it's 2006, 2007, or 2011, I'd take Dirk
They all had their moments in the sun. Dirk's was the greatest moment. Manu is like Worthy, McHale, or Parish -- always undervalued because he played with a megastar. I know I'd rather take the wins and rings, but it would have been great to see what numbers Manu could've put up on a crappy team as the #1 option.
Chris
04-03-2015, 12:07 PM
5/10
midnightpulp
04-03-2015, 10:26 PM
It's close.
I agree that all Euroleague accomplishments should be thrown out, since that isn't basketball's highest level of professional competition, but FIBA accomplishments should certainly be considered. Manu did the seemingly impossible and willed Argentina to an Olympic Gold. Caveat is, though, that it was against the worst US Men's National Team in the post-Dream Team era. Argentina did follow up with a Bronze in the next Olympics, with Manu averaging 18ppg. On the other hand, Pau's Spanish team had one of the best US teams sweating in the 4th and he was the 2008 Olympics top scorer.
I'm gonna say wash.
Who gives a shit? Niggas are 2 has been scrubs now
Except Manu is a defending champ and you, well you're a faggot.
Manu has made an impact without being a starter or a franchise face. What other bench player has ever been part of a "big 3"?
Pau has been underrated most of his career however, especially by Kobestans.
Infinite_limit
04-03-2015, 11:34 PM
GOLD
https://bobcatspanish.pbworks.com/f/Manu+Ginobili+Mouhammad+A-image-1.jpg
SILVER
http://lubbockonline.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/11454180.jpg
ElNono
04-04-2015, 12:27 AM
It's close.
I agree that all Euroleague accomplishments should be thrown out, since that isn't basketball's highest level of professional competition, but FIBA accomplishments should certainly be considered. Manu did the seemingly impossible and willed Argentina to an Olympic Gold. Caveat is, though, that it was against the worst US Men's National Team in the post-Dream Team era. Argentina did follow up with a Bronze in the next Olympics, with Manu averaging 18ppg. On the other hand, Pau's Spanish team had one of the best US teams sweating in the 4th and he was the 2008 Olympics top scorer.
I'm gonna say wash.
You're forgetting Indianapolis 2002... that's the first time they beat Team USA. The Olympics was the 2nd time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_FIBA_World_Championship_squads#USA
(lol Reggie Miller)
Thebesteva
04-04-2015, 12:51 AM
Except Manu is a defending champ and you, well you're a faggot.
You've had a hard life haven't you? Wanna take it out on an unmoderated forum, I get it.
You've had a hard life haven't you? Wanna take it out on an unmoderated forum, I get it.
I didn't come over here in the hull of a cargo ship with 300 of my "family" and reside in a port in LA for a week prior to living in the house of sheets... if that's what you mean by "hard life".
Your knock off, regurgitated, vanilla rendition of a schtick is played the fuck out. Don't you have a boil to lance somewhere?
Thebesteva
04-04-2015, 03:09 AM
I didn't come over here in the hull of a cargo ship with 300 of my "family" and reside in a port in LA for a week prior to living in the house of sheets... if that's what you mean by "hard life".
Your knock off, regurgitated, vanilla rendition of a schtick is played the fuck out. Don't you have a boil to lance somewhere?
:lol Calm down captain fat hands, I only mention your hard life because in another thread you said you grew up in the hood with black people when we were debating if black males grow up more commonly in a house without fathers or mothers. Of course, you being the person you are said its commonly known black people grow up without mothers when its well known they lack fathers in their life.
Stalin
04-04-2015, 03:20 AM
You've had a hard life haven't you? Wanna take it out on an unmoderated forum, I get it.
lel
:lol Calm down captain fat hands, I only mention your hard life because in another thread you said you grew up in the hood with black people when we were debating if black males grow up more commonly in a house without fathers or mothers. Of course, you being the person you are said its commonly known black people grow up without mothers when its well known they lack fathers in their life.
You believe everything I say. You hang on my every word.
Koolaid_Man
04-04-2015, 12:49 PM
^getting really creative to try to put them all in the same breath. dirk is the best hands down period.
Real members of the homosexual Hitler movement as you claim to be don't like nikka lovers...just saying
milkyway21
04-05-2015, 05:56 PM
Putting any stock whatosoever in non-NBA credentials is fucking retarded. A NCAA title is far more impressive than a Euroleague one, so let's never mention Euroleague here again. Or maybe we can also say Beckham>Messi because of his MLS cup.
Did Dirk Nowitzki win a gold medal or any medal in the Olympic games?
Jodelo
04-06-2015, 06:25 AM
Did Dirk Nowitzki win a gold medal or any medal in the Olympic games?
With who? :lol
He carried Germany to a bronze medal at the WC and silver at the EC with nothing.
DAF86
04-07-2015, 01:09 AM
Ginobili is underrated by stupid NBA fans 'cause they never saw him carry an NBA team (even though he has actually carried the Spurs for a couple of seasons). If you don't think Manu could have pulled a Harden if he went to another place to be the number one option you haven't seen Manu play enough.
Manu is a second tier franchise player, that means not good enough to be a number one option on a perennial contender (think of guys like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, etc.) but good enough to be the number one option on good teams that on certain seasons and with everything clicking on their favour may have a shot at going deep into the playoffs and maybe even winning it all.
DAF86
04-07-2015, 01:19 AM
For example: many dumbfucks would think it's blasphemous to say Manu Ginobili > Reggie Miller but those of us who know better know it's a very reasonable debate and to be honest Manu is probably the better of the two.
Arcadian
04-07-2015, 01:06 PM
Manu is definitely better than Reggie Miller! Reggie was a one-dimensional player, so it's not even close.
Killakobe81
04-07-2015, 03:17 PM
Manu is definitely better than Reggie Miller! Reggie was a one-dimensional player, so it's not even close.
all-around he sure is ...but Miller got to carry a team Gino never truly did. But also Reggie never won a ring and Manu has multiple ... even as a BRUIN, I lean Gino but Reggie was a beast in those Knicks series.
Infinite_limit
04-07-2015, 03:20 PM
all-around he sure is ...but Miller got to carry a team Gino never truly did. But also Reggie never won a ring and Manu has multiple ... even as a BRUIN, I lean Gino but Reggie was a beast in those Knicks series.
Like you said: Reggie led. He is the face of the Indiana Pacers. Helping his legacy greatly. When you think 90's Pacers [4 ECF appearances] you think Reggie. Plus that whole last 8 seconds in Madison.
Arcadian
04-07-2015, 07:10 PM
Like you said: Reggie led. He is the face of the Indiana Pacers. Helping his legacy greatly. When you think 90's Pacers [4 ECF appearances] you think Reggie. Plus that whole last 8 seconds in Madison.
:lol Yes, he led his team to losing in the playoffs every year. Not really impressive.
Nobody's legacy should be built on an 8-second timespan. Even within that discussion, Tracy McGrady's 13 points in 35 seconds is far more impressive (and T-Mac was also a better player than Miller).
DAF86
04-07-2015, 07:15 PM
all-around he sure is ...but Miller got to carry a team Gino never truly did. But also Reggie never won a ring and Manu has multiple ... even as a BRUIN, I lean Gino but Reggie was a beast in those Knicks series.
Ginobili is underrated by stupid NBA fans 'cause they never saw him carry an NBA team (even though he has actually carried the Spurs for a couple of seasons). If you don't think Manu could have pulled a Harden if he went to another place to be the number one option you haven't seen Manu play enough.
Manu is a second tier franchise player, that means not good enough to be a number one option on a perennial contender (think of guys like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, etc.) but good enough to be the number one option on good teams that on certain seasons and with everything clicking on their favour may have a shot at going deep into the playoffs and maybe even winning it all.
Don't be a stupid NBA fan.
Mitch
04-07-2015, 07:19 PM
GOLD
https://bobcatspanish.pbworks.com/f/Manu+Ginobili+Mouhammad+A-image-1.jpg
SILVER
http://lubbockonline.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/superphoto/11454180.jpg
Winning silver against the "redeem team" was far more impressive than gold against Italy & the 2004 USA amateur team.
ambchang
04-07-2015, 08:48 PM
Ginobili is underrated by stupid NBA fans 'cause they never saw him carry an NBA team (even though he has actually carried the Spurs for a couple of seasons). If you don't think Manu could have pulled a Harden if he went to another place to be the number one option you haven't seen Manu play enough.
Manu is a second tier franchise player, that means not good enough to be a number one option on a perennial contender (think of guys like Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Lebron, etc.) but good enough to be the number one option on good teams that on certain seasons and with everything clicking on their favour may have a shot at going deep into the playoffs and maybe even winning it all.
Missing the playoffs in his prime with Caron Butler, and getting kicked out in the first round with Lamar Odom is not a contender. Funny how Kobe got kicked out of the first round and missed the playoffs in the peak of his prime, and yet won championships as the "#1" option off peak. He is the first and only player whose peak is worse than his off peak.
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