The buses that were never used

[TOP-CHERRY]

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/ap/20050901/capt.flpc21109012015.hurricane_katrina_flpc211.jpg

An aerial view of flooded school buses in a lot, Thursday, Sept. 1, 2005, in New Orleans, LA.

Very hypocritical for the mayor to be blaming everything on the federal government when he deserves equal, if not more blame for what's going on.

I'm not trying to add more fire to this blaming game, I just want all of those people blaming Bush to see both sides of the issue.

[jochhejaam]

I read the article associated with those busses and it said at least one evacuation trip could have been made (possibly two) with 22,000 moved out of danger. It's unfortunate that some elected officials don't know how to respond in time of emergency.

[Phil E.Buster]

Yeah, it is not all Bush's fault but damnit people. Don't be afraid to find fault in Bush.

He is only human you know.

[whottt]

There were more busses than that available. That's just one group of busses they didn't use.

[Allan Rowe vs Wade]

Yeah, it is not all Bush's fault but damnit people. Don't be afraid to find fault in Bush.

He is only human you know.


Thats what's so funny. I've noticed that some political posters are just as polarized as the bush bashers. Instead of blaming bush, and quickly defending others, they blame others, and quickly defend bush.

[TOP-CHERRY]

^I think this thread was directed to those who dump all the blame on Bush without blaming anyone else.

I'm just trying to make them see that so many people are to blame, not just Bush.

[Nbadan]

After the Feds declared a State of Emergency on Friday it was really their call to use the buses or not, but this doesn't completely exonerate the Mayor or the Governor. Also, lets remember that all the roads out of town were completely packed with Tahoes and Escalades. Where were these buses supposed to go?

[Useruser666]

After the Feds declared a State of Emergency on Friday it was really their call to use the buses or not, but this doesn't completely exonerate the Mayor or the Governor. Also, lets remember that all the roads out of town were completely packed with Tahoes and Escalades. Where were these buses supposed to go?

Now is this a fact or just your opinion?

[TOP-CHERRY]

Another reason to blame the local govt: They didn't make the evacuation mandatory earlier, thus creating chaos on the roads.

Many cars were still there when the hurricane hit.

[Nbadan]

Another reason to blame the local govt: They didn't make the evacuation mandatory earlier, thus creating chaos on the roads.

Many cars were still there when the hurricane hit.

I agree that there never was an effective, efficient plan for getting everyone out of town. But that's also a fed problem because it's their responsibility to spend the money to formulate such a plan, especially after 911. The Governor followed the letter of the law. So I'm not sure what some of you expected her to do.

[Nbadan]

Now is this a fact or just your opinion?

Don't you ever watch the news? They even turned in-and-out lanes into one-direction out of town.

There was no plan to use the buses. No drivers, no gas, no money. Sure sounds like this was a FEMA mistake. Why didn't they fill the planes flying out of NO with people?

[Jelly]

After the Feds declared a State of Emergency on Friday it was really their call to use the buses or not, but this doesn't completely exonerate the Mayor or the Governor. Also, lets remember that all the roads out of town were completely packed with Tahoes and Escalades. Where were these buses supposed to go?

Doesn't completely exonerate????? Give me a break.
It was 100% the responsibility of local authorities, with the assistance of the state, to evacuate those people. 100% Dan. A Federal Declaration of Emergency has nothing to do with local evacuation. Utilizing those buses was even outlined in NO's own emergency response plans. The entire process, from using the buses, to managing the exodus, directing the flow of traffic WAS ENTIRELY the responsiblity of NO. Case closed. I can't believe anyone is still arguing this point.

[whottt]

After the Feds declared a State of Emergency on Friday it was really their call to use the buses or not, but this doesn't completely exonerate the Mayor or the Governor. Also, lets remember that all the roads out of town were completely packed with Tahoes and Escalades. Where were these buses supposed to go?


Bullshit. Absolute and total bullshit, Dan.

The Fed doesn't officially make the calls even now now...The Feds role in this, even now, is official support of the state and city authorities.

The Mayor declared a state of Emergency and in doing so gained nearly total authority within the City. He even had the authority to prevent people from leaving....in fact he did so in several cases. He forced several hotels to remain open and staffed....

Yes, we all know Honare's is the one running the fucking show, now...but officially, even now, all he is, is the assistant to the Govenor and Mayor.


I can't believe you will tell a baldfaced lie like that...but the truth is...you probably didn't come up with that on your own...you probably picked that up at the DNC homepage or something like that.

[Nbadan]

Bullshit. Absolute and total bullshit, Dan.

The Fed doesn't officially make the calls even now now...The Feds role in this, even now, is official support of the state and city authorities.

The Mayor declared a state of Emergency and in doing so gained nearly total authority within the City. He even had the authority to prevent people from leaving....in fact he did so in several cases. He forced several hotels to remain open and staffed....

Yes, we all know Honare's is the one running the fucking show, now...but officially, even now, all he is, is the assistant to the Govenor and Mayor.


I can't believe you will tell a baldfaced lie like that...but the truth is...you probably didn't come up with that on your own...you probably picked that up at the DNC homepage or something like that.

I don't bullshit...


The President today declared an emergency exists in the State of Louisiana and ordered Federal aid to supplement state and local response efforts in the parishes located in the path of Hurricane Katrina beginning on August 26, 2005, (Friday)and continuing.

The President's action authorizes the Department of Homeland Security, Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), to coordinate all disaster relief efforts which have the purpose of alleviating the hardship and suffering caused by the emergency on the local population, and to provide appropriate assistance for required emergency measures, authorized under Title V of the Stafford Act, to save lives, protect property and public health and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a catastrophe in the parishes of Allen, Avoyelles, Beauregard, Bienville, Bossier, Caddo, Caldwell, Claiborne, Catahoula, Concordia, De Soto, East Baton Rouge, East Carroll, East Feliciana, Evangeline, Franklin, Grant, Jackson, LaSalle, Lincoln, Livingston, Madison, Morehouse, Natchitoches, Pointe Coupee, Ouachita, Rapides, Red River, Richland, Sabine, St. Helena, St. Landry, Tensas, Union, Vernon, Webster, West Carroll, West Feliciana, and Winn.

Specifically, FEMA is authorized to identify, mobilize, and provide at its discretion, equipment and resources necessary to alleviate the impacts of the emergency. Debris removal and emergency protective measures, including direct Federal assistance, will be provided at 75 percent Federal funding.

Representing FEMA, Michael D. Brown, Under Secretary for Emergency Preparedness and Response, Department of Homeland Security, named William Lokey as the Federal Coordinating Officer for Federal recovery operations in the affected area.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION CONTACT: FEMA (202) 646-4600

WhiteHouse.gov (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/08/20050827-1.html)

[whottt]

8-28 - President Bush called and personally appealed to the Mayor of New Orleans to order an emegency evacuation.

Later on 8-28 - New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin ordered an emergency evac.

The State of Emergency conditions for both the city of NO and the State of Louisiana were all reafy in effect.

The Mayor had powers within in the city of New Orleans that even the President didn't have. Ditto the Govenor.

In fact I am pretty sure he could have prevented the Greyhound Bus Station from closing early, leaving thousands in line to get out of town, and didn't.


I will tell you right now...this guy is going to go down hard...

You just wait till a Black Politician running for mayor gets hold of his ass in the next elections....He'll wish it was just the CIA trying to kill him.


If you don't believe me about what kind of authority this guy had...ask FWDT..he's a Lawyer.

[Nbadan]

Here is the letter from the Governor declaring a state of Emergency...


FRIDAY, AUGUST 26TH
GOVERNOR BLANCO DECLARES STATE OF EMERGENCY

BATON ROUGE, LA--Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco today issued Proclamation No. 48 KBB 2005, declaring a state of emergency for the state Louisiana as Hurricane Katrina poses an imminent threat, carrying severe storms, high winds, and torrential rain that may cause flooding and damage to private property and public facilities, and threaten the safety and security of the citizens of the state of Louisiana The state of emergency extends from Friday, August 26, 2005, through Sunday, September 25, 2005, unless terminated sooner.

http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=...

SATURDAY, AUGUST 27TH

Governor Blanco asks President to Declare an Emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina

BATON ROUGE—Today Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco forwarded a letter to President Bush requesting that he declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina.

In response to the situation I have taken appropriate action under State law and directed the execution of the State Emergency Plan on August 26, 2005 in accordance with Section 501 (a) of the Stafford Act. A State of Emergency has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuations of the coastal areas in accordance with our State Evacuation Plan and the remainder of the state to support the State Special Needs and Sheltering Plan.

Pursuant to 44 CFR § 206.35, I have determined that this incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments, and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of a disaster. I am specifically requesting emergency protective measures, direct Federal Assistance, Individual and Household Program (IHP) assistance, Special Needs Program assistance, and debris removal.

The full text of the letter follows:Gov,state.la.us (http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=)

[Jelly]

Dan, for your reading pleasure...

The Hurricane Emergency Evacuation Standard Operating Procedure is designed to deal with all case scenarios of an evacuation in response to the approach of a major hurricane towards New Orleans. It is designed to deal with the anticipation of a direct hit from a major hurricane. This includes identifying the city's present population, its projected population, identification of at-risk populations (those living outside levee protection or in storm-surge areas, floodplains, mobile homes, etc.), in order to understand the evacuation requirements. It includes identifying the transportation network, especially the carrying-capacity of proposed evacuation routes and existing or potential traffic bottlenecks or blockages, caused either by traffic congestion or natural occurrences such as rising waters. Identification of sheltering resources and the establishment of shelters and the training of shelter staff is important, as is the provision for food and other necessities to the sheltered. This preparation function is the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Preparedness.

Conduct of an actual evacuation will be the responsibility of the Mayor of New Orleans in coordination with the Director of the Office of Emergency Preparedness, and the OEP Shelter Coordinator. The SOP, in unison with other elements of the Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan, is designed for use in all hazard situations, including citywide evacuations in response to hurricane situations and addresses three elements of emergency response: warning, evacuation, and sheltering.

1. Warning: Formulates a comprehensive system for public information, early recognition of impending storms, and dissemination of emergency warning.

2. Evacuation: Formulates an effective procedure for orderly evacuation of residents and visitors within available warning time.

3. Sheltering: Formulates a comprehensive system of accessible shelters of adequate size.

The SOP is limited as it is not designed to address the protection of personal and real property, yet is developed to cover the total New Orleans geographic area. The timely issuance of evacuation orders critically impacts upon the successful evacuation of all citizens from high-risk areas. In determining the proper time to issue evacuation orders, there is no substitute for human judgement based upon all known circumstances surrounding local conditions and storm characteristics.

Information received from the National Hurricane Center concerning the storm's tract will allow the focusing on either a landfall, paralleling or exiting storm scenario. Information involving local conditions such as pre-hurricane rainfall, tide schedules, and the amount of pre-storm publicity, must be taken into account, as are the various known circumstances that are explained in the information summary portion of the Hurricane Evacuation Plan, in determining when an evacuation order should be issued. Any assumption regarding where and how the storm will likely make landfall involves clear and constant communication with the National Hurricane Center, the local office of the National Weather Service, State OEP and various local agencies that are monitoring either the storm's progress or other elements of the city's preparedness to weather the storm's passage.

The City of New Orleans will utilize all available resources to quickly and safely evacuate threatened areas. Those evacuated will be directed to temporary sheltering and feeding facilities as needed. When specific routes of progress are required, evacuees will be directed to those routes. Special arrangements will be made to evacuate persons unable to transport themselves or who require specific life saving assistance. Additional personnel will be recruited to assist in evacuation procedures as needed.

Slow developing weather conditions (primarily hurricane) will create increased readiness culminating in an evacuation order 24 hours (12 daylight hours) prior to predicted landfall. Disabled vehicles and debris will be removed from highways so as not to impede evacuation. In local evacuations involving more than fifty (50) families (i.e. 50 single dwelling units), staging areas may be established at the closest available public area outside the threatened area. Upon arrival at the staging area, evacuees will be directed to the appropriate shelter facility. Evacuees will be encouraged to stay with friends or relatives in non-threatened areas whenever possible. Security measures will be employed to protect the evacuated area(s) in accordance with established procedures and situations.

The use of travel-trailers, campers, motorcycles, bicycles, etc., during the evacuation will be allowed so long as the situation permits it. Public information broadcasts will include any prohibitions on their use. Transportation will be provided to those persons requiring public transportation from the area. (See Special Needs Transportation, ESF-1). An orderly return to the evacuated areas will be provided after the Mayor determines the threat to be terminated. Transportation back to the evacuated area after threat termination will be provided as available.

III. EVACUATION ORDER

A. Authority

As established by the City of New Orleans Charter, the government has jurisdiction and responsibility in disaster response. City government shall coordinate its efforts through the Office of Emergency Preparedness

The authority to order the evacuation of residents threatened by an approaching hurricane is conferred to the Governor by Louisiana Statute. The Governor is granted the power to direct and compel the evacuation of all or part of the population from a stricken or threatened area within the State, if he deems this action necessary for the preservation of life or other disaster mitigation, response or recovery. The same power to order an evacuation conferred upon the Governor is also delegated to each political subdivision of the State by Executive Order. This authority empowers the chief elected official of New Orleans, the Mayor of New Orleans, to order the evacuation of the parish residents threatened by an approaching hurricane.

B. Issuance of Evacuation Orders

The person responsible for recognition of hurricane related preparation needs and for the issuance of an evacuation order is the Mayor of the City of New Orleans. Concerning preparation needs and the issuance of an evacuation order, The Office of Emergency Preparedness should keep the Mayor advised.

IV: HURRICANE EVACUATION PROCEDURES

It must be understood that this Comprehensive Emergency Management Plan is an all-hazard response plan, and is applicable to events of all sizes, affecting even the smallest segments of the community. Evacuation procedures for small scale and localized evacuations are conducted per the SOPs of the New Orleans Fire Department and the New Orleans Police Department. However, due to the sheer size and number of persons to be evacuated, should a major tropical weather system or other catastrophic event threaten or impact the area, specifically directed long range planning and coordination of resources and responsibilities efforts must be undertaken.

A. Evacuation Time Requirements

Using information developed as part of the Southeast Louisiana Hurricane Task Force and other research, the City of New Orleans has established a maximum acceptable hurricane evacuation time standard for a Category 3 storm event of 72 hours. This is based on clearance time or is the time required to clear all vehicles evacuating in response to a hurricane situation from area roadways. Clearance time begins when the first evacuating vehicle enters the road network and ends when the last evacuating vehicle reaches its destination.

Clearance time also includes the time required by evacuees to secure their homes and prepare to leave (mobilization time); the time spent by evacuees traveling along the road network (travel time); and the time spent by evacuees waiting along the road network due to traffic congestion (delay time). Clearance time does not refer to the time a single vehicle spends traveling on the road network. Evacuation notices or orders will be issued during three stages prior to gale force winds making landfall.

> Precautionary Evacuation Notice: 72 hours or less

> Special Needs Evacuation Order: 8-12 hours after Precautionary Evacuation Notice issued

> General Evacuation Notice: 48 hours or less

[Useruser666]

Don't you ever watch the news? They even turned in-and-out lanes into one-direction out of town.

There was no plan to use the buses. No drivers, no gas, no money. Sure sounds like this was a FEMA mistake. Why didn't they fill the planes flying out of NO with people?

Look at what I bolded. The people who left by car were 100 times better off than those stuck in their homes when the waters came for them. You're grasping at straws. How many people drowned driving out of NO compared to those that stayed?

[Dos]

Jelly quit confusing the left with actual facts... sheesh...

[Useruser666]

Ouch Jelly! :lol

[whottt]

I agree that there never was an effective, efficient plan for getting everyone out of town. But that's also a fed problem because it's their responsibility to spend the money to formulate such a plan, especially after 911. The Governor followed the letter of the law. So I'm not sure what some of you expected her to do.

Share power with the Federal Government...something she still hasn't been willing to do.


Officially...she is still in charge of everything going on in LA and NO...unofficially...It's Honare doing the jobs of the Mayor, and Govenor, as well as his own duties as the FEMA man.

[Nbadan]

Jelly, yes I have read that before, but none of that mattered once the Feds took over. It became their baby after that. The Governors letter clearly states that State and local resources were being pushed to the breaking point.

Just ask yourself: If this wasn't a job created specifically for FEMA and Homeland Security then why do these agencies even exist?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Poor Dan,

Government documents online spell out responsibility and authority, and he still tries to pin it on FEMA and Bush.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, Dan thinks it's a fucking raccoon.

[Useruser666]

To toture your soul Dan.

[Nbadan]

Jelly quit confusing the left with actual facts... sheesh...

...and quit being so desperate you'll grasp at empty straws.

[Nbadan]

Poor Dan,

Government documents online spell out responsibility and authority, and he still tries to pin it on FEMA and Bush.

If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, Dan thinks it's a fucking raccoon.


Yeah, when state's rights supersede the Fed Rights under the department of Homeland security maybe you'll have a point, but until then STFU.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yeah, when state's rights supersede the Fed Rights under the department of Homeland security maybe you'll have a point, but until then STFU.

States rights DO supercede federal rights on disasters like this, until the governor says otherwise. Christ man, it's there in black and white, and I didn't see FEMA or the government saying anything otherwise when they signed off on NO's plan.

You STFU, it's not my fault you got caught with your Care Bear panties down around your ankles on this one.

[Nbadan]

States rights DO supercede federal rights on disasters like this, until the governor says otherwise. Christ man, it's there in black and white, and I didn't see FEMA or the government saying anything otherwise when they signed off on NO's plan.

You STFU, it's not my fault you got caught with your Care Bear panties down around your ankles on this one.

Yeah, you got a good view of my panties on all four right?

Reading comprehension not your strong suit boy or you just stupid? What part of the governor's letter I posted effectively handing control of emergency preparedness for this disaster to the Feds did you not understand?

[whottt]

Jelly, yes I have read that before, but none of that mattered once the Feds took over. It became their baby after that.

Wrong...the Govenor is still in charge...FEMA is not in charge in LA, not even now....Get it through your fucking skull.



The Governors letter clearly states that State and local resources were being pushed to the breaking point.

Just ask yourself: If this wasn't a job created specifically for FEMA and Homeland Security then why do these agencies even exist?


Ask yourself this...if the FED was expected to do everything...why didn't their bitch govenor get out of the way and let them do it?

The FED asked for the emergency evac, she got her State of Emergency Declratation and Fund 2 days before the storm even hit...

The Fed gave her everything she asked for....

And then when they asked to share power...she refused out of political distrust.


Do you think Jeb Bush refuses to work with his brother?

Do you think the Sri Lankans got uppity?


This situation did not get under control...until fucking Honare went and drove down each and every fucking street in NO...

Why couldn't they mayor have done that?

That piece of shit didn't put his cops in position to feed themselves....much less anyone else. You saying there was no food in fucking New Orleans before the Hurricane?

The Mayor's Cops, the Govenors state troopers, and the Louisiana Guardsmen could not even get in touch with their leaders...because their leaders were Baton Rouge. But amazingly...they were able to get through to FEMA in Washington...unfortuately...that did exactly shit good because they had to go through the Govenor.


The Mayor was incompetent...but at least he worked with the Fed...

Not only was the Govenor incompetent...but she refused the Government's request to share power...after they gave her everything she was asking for.


I don't think Jeb Bush pulls that shit...

I don't think the Sri Lankans were were making power plays...

Anatomy of a fuck up....and it begins with the city and state officials.


Would it have been to difficult to at least position the busses along the high ground highways so they could at least be used after the Hurricane?

Would it have been too hard to make sure you law enforcement officers could feed themselves and have someone in authority making the decisions?

[Dan Rather]

^I think this thread was directed to those who dump all the blame on Bush without blaming anyone else.

I'm just trying to make them see that so many people are to blame, not just Bush.


If Bush was man enough to take full responsibility , we wouldn't have to blame him,, But then again, who ever said Bush was a real man?

[mookie2001]

FEMA has untold power during these times

[whottt]

FEMA has untold power during these times


Wrong...officially they are still only supporting the State and City Governments...

This isn't open to debate...the Govenor is in charge of this entire thing...even now.

The difference is that she's using FEMA's man to get shit done because her own power structure collapsed due to a lack of leadership.

Honare has to go through the Mayor and Govenor for everything...

Well it's probably more like he tells them to get the fuck out of his way...but officially that is the command and control structure.

[Dan Rather]

The bottom-line is, America wants to see someone lose thier Job,

And I don't blame them.
If it was up to me, there would be Jail time for those ass holes.

[jochhejaam]

After the Feds declared a State of Emergency on Friday it was really their call to use the buses or not, but this doesn't completely exonerate the Mayor or the Governor. Also, lets remember that all the roads out of town were completely packed with Tahoes and Escalades. Where were these buses supposed to go?


B.S. danny boy. You said it was the Feds call Friday August 26th while the fact is the Feds were still trying to take control of the situation as recently as this past Friday Sept 2nd.
State officials were too worried about the possibility of Blame being placed on them to turn it over to the Feds. Politics interferring with the job of saving lives.

Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday (Sept 2nd) , the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.
The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. Enter the blame game politics----> "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

[Nbadan]

Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday (Sept 2nd) , the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.
The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. Enter the blame game politics----> "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

I've already posted this. FEMA is separate from the National Guard. What the Bush administration wanted Blanco to do was declare Martial law and effectively absolve FEMA from any responsibility for this disaster up to that point. Of course Blanco wasn't gonna do that.

[boutons]

The fatal levees, the UNIQUE factor in Katrina distinguishing Katrina from all other bad hurricanes and the cause of the great majority of NO destruction and deaths, are under control of ACoE, whose budget and priorities are set by ... ?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Reading comprehension not your strong suit boy or you just stupid? What part of the governor's letter I posted effectively handing control of emergency preparedness for this disaster to the Feds did you not understand?

You're one to talk. You pull more bullshit out of your ass than a pasture full of cows, then call it "fact."

Boy? Coming from someone who shows the maturity level of a two year old who hates the kid who took his shovel in the sandbox, that's a laugh.

What part of it didn't I understand? Apparently the same part federal lawyers didn't, because everyone says the governor is still running the show.

And it's apparently not understood by the governor either, as she was on CNN this morning saying it will still her show but that she now had more resources at her disposal after talking to Bush yesterday.

So, are you telling me the stupid ass governor thinks she's in control, but really isn't in control due to some "effectively ceding control" language in a letter SHE wrote?

That's some fun logic Dan, but I guess coming from a knucklehead who cheers every time a US troop dies in Iraq, nothing that comes from you should surprise me.

[SpursWoman]

If Bush was man enough to take full responsibility , we wouldn't have to blame him,, But then again, who ever said Bush was a real man?


The brunt of the fault is NOT HIS TO TAKE. Not that there isn't any, but not all of it by any means. Either pay attention or STFU.

[mookie2001]

but he handled 9/11 so well...
with such leadership, strength and conviction!

[SpursWoman]

but he handled 9/11 so well...
with such leadership, strength and conviction!






Thanks for the reminder of User's birthday on Sunday. :oops :)

[spurster]

IMHO, NO failed on the evacuation before the storm, and the Feds and Louisiana failed on the rescue operations after the storm.

[Nbadan]

Fact Check: About those buses now under water

We keep hearing that Mayor Nagin should have used those school buses now under water to evacuate those who didn't have cars. (E.g., it just came up on Hardball again)

It's time for a fact check. Based on the Times-Picayune Blog (i.e., CONTEMPORANEOUS report, not after-the-fact CYA), when he announced the mandatory evacuation, Nagin provided a toll-free number for people to call to get picked up by bus (RTA):

[QUOTE]Mayor Nagin issues mandatory evacuation for New Orleans

As of 9:30 a.m., Mayor Nagin has issued a mandatory evacuation for New Orleans.
* * *
The city has set up ten pickup areas to take people to emergency shelters. RTA buses will be picking up citizens for free and take them to these shelters. The number to call for pickup areas is 1-800-469-4828.

The pickup locations are (list of multiple pick up locations follows)[QUOTE]

See http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlo... (You have to scroll way down to Aug 28 - the "permalinks" are not working)

I've seen no reports about whether the RTA buses were overwhelmed; whether the school buses were needed; whether people called, but didn't get picked up.

However - the contemporaneous documents PROVE that Nagin offered those without transportation a way to call to get a ride to a shelter, and had buses picking people up.

Nagin had the buses but FEMA wouldn't authorize him to send them anywhere.

FEMA finally decided that the Superdome could be used as a safe shelter, even though they knew that there were no provisions for even 10,000 people no less 30,000.

Even once FEMA said it was okay to use the Superdome, they made little attempt to provide food or even water for the people that would be stuck in there. But they did have the manpower to make sure they searched everyone going in.

The public record will prove Nagin is the hero in this whole mess.

[whottt]

Oh sure Dan...blame the victims, fucking racist.

[Nbadan]

blame the victims, fucking racist.

:wtf

Nagin is a minority.

[Dos]

looks like the wheels are coming off the liberal bash bush wagon....

[Useruser666]

Fact Check: About those buses now under water

We keep hearing that Mayor Nagin should have used those school buses now under water to evacuate those who didn't have cars. (E.g., it just came up on Hardball again)

It's time for a fact check. Based on the Times-Picayune Blog (i.e., CONTEMPORANEOUS report, not after-the-fact CYA), when he announced the mandatory evacuation, Nagin provided a toll-free number for people to call to get picked up by bus (RTA):

[QUOTE]Mayor Nagin issues mandatory evacuation for New Orleans

As of 9:30 a.m., Mayor Nagin has issued a mandatory evacuation for New Orleans.
* * *
The city has set up ten pickup areas to take people to emergency shelters. RTA buses will be picking up citizens for free and take them to these shelters. The number to call for pickup areas is 1-800-469-4828.

The pickup locations are (list of multiple pick up locations follows)[QUOTE]

See http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlo... (You have to scroll way down to Aug 28 - the "permalinks" are not working)

I've seen no reports about whether the RTA buses were overwhelmed; whether the school buses were needed; whether people called, but didn't get picked up.

However - the contemporaneous documents PROVE that Nagin offered those without transportation a way to call to get a ride to a shelter, and had buses picking people up.

Nagin had the buses but FEMA wouldn't authorize him to send them anywhere.

FEMA finally decided that the Superdome could be used as a safe shelter, even though they knew that there were no provisions for even 10,000 people no less 30,000.

Even once FEMA said it was okay to use the Superdome, they made little attempt to provide food or even water for the people that would be stuck in there. But they did have the manpower to make sure they searched everyone going in.

The public record will prove Nagin is the hero in this whole mess.


So now you're saying the people didn't want to leave?

[whottt]

Nagin had the buses but FEMA wouldn't authorize him to send them anywhere.

FEMA finally decided that the Superdome could be used as a safe shelter, even though they knew that there were no provisions for even 10,000 people no less 30,000.

Even once FEMA said it was okay to use the Superdome, they made little attempt to provide food or even water for the people that would be stuck in there. But they did have the manpower to make sure they searched everyone going in.

The public record will prove Nagin is the hero in this whole mess.

Was this part from Fact Check or from Nbadan's ass?

If so then fact check needs to hire me...FEMA couldn't tell Nagin shit...FEMA has no control over local authorities...FACT. FEMA has no control over state authorities. FACT.


But even if they do...so whose idea was it to use the foodless Superdome?

Is Nagin hero for suggesting it? Or for getting FEMA to approve it?

I didn't realize the city of New Orleans had no food prior to the Hurricane...Damn FEMA.

It might have been nice to consider that those busses just might have some use after the hurricane and put them somewhere near the shelter for later use. But what do I know...I am not an idiot.

[Dos]

Hurricane Ivan
(AL, FL, GA, LA, MS, NC, NJ, NY, PA, TN, WVA) 2004
Hurricane Charley
(FL, SC) 2004

Hurricane Frances
(FL, GA, NC, NY, OH, PA, SC) 2004

Hurricane Jeanne
(DE, FL, PR, VI, VA) 2004

yeah I guess the governors in the other states effected by hurricanes last year also are related to bush..

[cecil collins]

looks like the wheels are coming off the liberal bash bush wagon....

Looks like more dumb fuck commentary from DOS.


Oh sure Dan...blame the victims, fucking racist.
C'mom, don't tell me you are gonna play the race card again.

I think most of you like to argue with Dan just for the sake of arguing. Personally, I don't know who's fuck up this is. I know I don't blame Bush immediately, I don't credit him for doing what any president would have done(although maybe a little quicker) either. Some of you are awfully defensive of anything conservative for being non partisan, and in some cases ex-democrats.

[Dos]

Cecil after meeting you, I've decided I am in favor of abortion in cases of incest.

[cecil collins]

Everyone has their stupid little internet jokes. I guess that passes as intelligent...I guess.

[whottt]

I was in the....it's the hurricanes fault group...

Until the Democrats went on the attack...Is it really hard to see their motivations? I mean what do they have to lose? Control of the Presidency and both houses of congress?


About the only Democrat not placing blame is Blanco...I wonder why.

[cecil collins]

BTW, you forgot a stupid little emoticon that alerts everyone to how funny you are. :lol :lol :lol :lol

[cecil collins]

I was in the....it's the hurricanes fault group...

Until the Democrats went on the attack...Is it really hard to see their motivations? I mean what do they have to lose? Control of the Presidency and both houses of congress?


About the only Democrat not placing blame is Blanco...I wonder why.

It's funny that the Democrats get so much flack for their attack machine, when the republicans have been king of the attack game for so many years. Attacking has been proven to be successful, even more so if the media were liberal owned.

[whottt]

Actually...it's never worked...the attack game didn't work against Clinton...and it hasn't worked against Bush.

The approach that works is the...let them shoot themselves in the foot approach...Bush has done this several times...However the Democratic repsonse was to shoot themselves in both feet...EG...naming a commie traitor responsible for the deaths of millions, and whose greatins achievment was championing losing a war, as their Presidential Nominee, during a war....

They are trying too hard...try doing something productive other than attacking Bush for a change...it plays to their hardcore voters...but it alienates everyone else.

[cecil collins]

The (successful) republican attack machine made you think Kerry was a commie, but he is far from it.

[whottt]

No...Kerry did himself in just fine without any help from W. His history and track record speak for themselves.

[cherylsteele]

Question....where are they pumping all this polluted water?

Are they it pumping back into Lake Ponchetrain...pollution and all.....won't this invite even more problems environmentally?

That "water" has petroleum, human waste, and a variety of chemicals....why can't they filter it in some way to ease the the environmental reprocussions of putting that water into the eco-system?

Kinda reminds me of the Love Canal.

[Nbadan]

Are they it pumping back into Lake Ponchetrain...pollution and all.....won't this invite even more problems environmentally?

Yes, and yes.

[Bandit2981]

why dont they pump the water into Schlitterbahn, no one will know the difference anwyays

[SpursWoman]

why dont they pump the water into Schlitterbahn, no one will know the difference anwyays


:lmao :lmao




Seriously, though....is Lake Pontchartrain big enough to absorb that much funk? That's scary. :(

[Nbadan]

If so then fact check needs to hire me...FEMA couldn't tell Nagin shit...FEMA has no control over local authorities...FACT. FEMA has no control over state authorities. FACT

What are you smokin? Once W declared a State of Emergency over the weekend, FEMA could supersede the authority of both the Mayor and the Governor. Anything else you hear is just spin. Here is a long list of other questionable activities by FEMA

FEMA won't accept Amtrak's help in evacuations
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/84aa35cc-1da8-11da-b40b-00000e...

FEMA turns away experienced firefighters
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/5/105538/7048

FEMA turns back Wal-Mart supply trucks
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspec... ;en=1d14ebfbd942a7d0&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

FEMA prevents Coast Guard from delivering diesel fuel
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/05/national/nationalspec... ;en=1d14ebfbd942a7d0&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

FEMA won't let Red Cross deliver food
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05246/565143.stm

FEMA bars morticians from entering New Orleans
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=15147862& ;BRD=1817&PAG=461&dept_id=68561&rfi=6

FEMA blocks 500-boat citizen flotilla from delivering aid
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/9/3/171718/0826

FEMA fails to utilize Navy ship with 600-bed hospital on board
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0509... ;cset=true

FEMA to Chicago: Send just one truck
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-050902dale...

FEMA turns away generators
http://www.wwltv.com/local/stories/WWLBLOG.ac3fcea.html

FEMA: "First Responders Urged Not To Respond"
http://www.fema.gov/news/newsrelease.fema?id=18470


That last one is real ---not satire but straight from FEMA's website.

[Vashner]

Also they didn't use the fire department air raid sirens.. or drive around with loudspeakers.. "Yo yo.. get the fuck out.. ya here.. no fucking food or drink no weed for weeks get the fuck out"..

That the would of understood.. (forgive my evil humor)

[Uncle_Rico]

^^^^that and the fact that if celebs and media can hang out there during the storm and get there before helps arrives, no reason why it should have taken so long.

[Useruser666]

The Corps of Engineers was monitoring pollutant levels as the are pumping the water. They said if they start to find an dangerous levels that may harm the environment, they would make some sort of changes to their strategies. I don't know if that means filtering, stoping the pumping or pumping the water elsewhere.

[Marcus Bryant]

Well, where else can the water be sent? I don't believe anyone wants to wait the decade it would take for the EPA to bureaucraticize the removal of the water from NO.

[Marcus Bryant]

You know, if FEMA had requisitioned a ton of shit and spent hundreds of million$ in advance of Katrina, only to see it dissipate or not turn into a disaster then Nbadanbot would be googling articles criticizing that.

Same old song and the tunes still suck.

[Hook Dem]

why dont they pump the water into Schlitterbahn, no one will know the difference anwyays
:lol :lol :lol You're right on Bandit!

[xrayzebra]

Dan fails again, along with the rest of his "small group":

The following is quoted from "the Drudge Report".

CNNUSATODAYGALLUP POLL: ONLY 13% BLAME BUSH?
Wed Sep 07 2005 10:42:26 ET

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll of 609 adults taken September 5-6 shows:

Blame Game -- 13% said George W. Bush is "most responsible for the problems in New Orleans after the hurricane"; 18% said "federal agencies"; 25% said "state and local officials"; 38% said "no one is to blame"; 6% had no opinion. -- 29% said that "top officials in the federal agencies responsible for handling emergencies should be fired"; 63% said they should not; 8% had no opinion.

MORE

Government Performance -- 10% said George W. Bush has done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 25% said "good"; 21% said "neither good nor bad"; 18% said "bad"; 24% said "terrible"; 2% had no opinion. -- 8% said federal government agencies responsible for handling emergencies have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 27% said "good"; 20% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 22% said "terrible"; 3% had no opinion. -- 7% said state and local officials in Louisiana have done a "great" job in "responding to the hurricane and subsequent flooding"; 30% said "good"; 23% said "neither good nor bad"; 20% said "bad"; 15% said "terrible"; 5% had no opinion.

[MiNuS]

Please someone list all the shit that happenned under Clintons 2 terms and the shit thats happenned under Bushs 1 & 1/4 terms.

Please! Please! Please ! Someone please explain what good has come from Bush?

[Useruser666]

Please someone list all the shit that happenned under Clintons 2 terms and the shit thats happenned under Bushs 1 & 1/4 terms.

Please! Please! Please ! Someone please explain what good has come from Bush?

I've come from a good bush and I've comed in a good bush.

[MiNuS]

I've come from a good bush and I've comed in a good bush.

a toast to that.

[Shelly]

http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/buses.asp

[Spurminator]

http://www.snopes.com/photos/katrina/buses.asp

Again, whose fault is all of this? You've given me nothing to work with here.

[Shelly]

Again, whose fault is all of this? You've given me nothing to work with here.

Why, George Bush's fault, of course.

[Nbadan]

Why, George Bush's fault, of course.


From Snoopes>>>


Whether this photograph truly represents a lost opportunity to have evacuated a substantial number of New Orleans residents ahead of Hurricane Katrina is difficult to assess. Such a claim presumes an availability of resources (e.g., experienced drivers, fuel) and workable logistics (e.g., sufficient means of notifying and getting residents to departure points, sufficiently clear roads for multiple trips out of town and back, adequate facilities within a reasonable driving distance capable of providing shelter, food, and water to a large number of people for an indeterminate period of time on short notice) that may or may not have been present. (There's no guarantee that all the buses shown in this picture were even in working condition.) And, given the particular geography of New Orleans, any such evacuation would have had to have begun well in advance of Hurricane Katrina to avoid exposing residents to the potential danger of being stuck in buses on traffic-clogged roads in the path of an approaching hurricane. Moreover, any type of evacuation effort would have incurred a substantial outlay of funds from local and/or state governments — while everyone agrees with the advantage of hindsight that would have been money well spent, many taxpayers might not have been left feeling so enthusiastic about footing the bill for an unnecessary evacuation had Hurricane Katrina not proved so damaging.

Hummm...isn't that what NBADAN has been saying all along? Besides, those of us who know how to read know that this was FEMA's call. They decided to stick everyone in the Superdome rather than risk driving them out of town and getting caught on clogged freeways.

[whottt]

They decided to stick everyone in the Superdome rather than risk driving them out of town and getting caught on clogged freeways.

Yeah..and poor New Orleans...everyone knows there is no food in New Orleans...because New Orleansians hate to eat...

I know every time I've been to New Orleans...I've always enjoyed it...except for the fact that I have to fast the entire time I am there, because there is no food in New Orleans...ever, as everyone knows.

It's amazing that having no food or water in the city hasn't hurt their tourism and prevented them from getting more Superbowls...

[Marcus Bryant]

....which, of course, is Bush's fault. Go figure.

[mouse]

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050905/capt.sge.ete61.050905064516.photo01.photo.default-256x384.jpg

[Shelly]

....which, of course, is Bush's fault. Go figure.

btw, my blaming Bush was sarcastic.

[The Ressurrected One]

They decided to stick everyone in the Superdome rather than risk driving them out of town and getting caught on clogged freeways.
Which wouldn't have been a concern if they'd of started the evacuation sooner...

[Spurminator]

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050905/capt.sge.ete61.050905064516.photo01.photo.default-256x384.jpg

More! More Aquafina! Soon this water will be drinkable again!

[Useruser666]

From Snoopes>>>



Hummm...isn't that what NBADAN has been saying all along? Besides, those of us who know how to read know that this was FEMA's call. They decided to stick everyone in the Superdome rather than risk driving them out of town and getting caught on clogged freeways.

Dan, where do get that crap from? It doesn't say anywhere in any way,shape, or form anything like what you just said.

[Marcus Bryant]

But it was on the internets! That proves his point.

[Useruser666]

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050905/capt.sge.ete61.050905064516.photo01.photo.default-256x384.jpg

More! More Aquafina! Soon this water will be drinkable again!

Why is his boat camouflage?

[The Ressurrected One]

Why is his boat camouflage?
So he can sneak up on evacuees...

[Shelly]

http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/afp/20050905/capt.sge.ete61.050905064516.photo01.photo.default-256x384.jpg

More! More Aquafina! Soon this water will be drinkable again!

:lmao

Every time I see that picture, I have to laugh at his using a plastic cup to bail out water.

[Useruser666]

:lmao

Every time I see that picture, I have to laugh at his using a plastic cup to bail out water.

Is he really bailing the water out, or trying to drown the paparazzi?

[Shelly]

Is he really bailing the water out, or trying to drown the paparazzi?


Good question!

[Al Sharpton]

http://www.boomspeed.com/woaimouse/Mouse-Fema.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

Only mouse could have managed to tie in the two major stories to have hit this forum in the last week in pictorial form.

[gtownspur]

Here is the letter from the Governor declaring a state of Emergency...



The full text of the letter follows:Gov,state.la.us (http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=)

This idiot should read his own googles. Nowhere does it state in either articles that Fema was responsible for evacuation. Only was it responsible for relief.

[Nbadan]

FEMA has untold power during these times

This is true. FEMA didn't have to wait for the Governor to hand control of the city over to the FEDS, especially after Governor Blanco declared a State of Emergency in NO on August 28th. (http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=) The President can take control of the National Guard and whatever other resources he needs with a simple Presidential stroke of the pin, but that pin stroke never came because the WH wanted to lay the blame on the lack of appropriate planning and supplies in the evacuation centers on the locals.

*during the Rodney King riots in LA President Reagan took control of the California National Guard

[whottt]

This is true. FEMA didn't have to wait for the Governor to hand control of the city over to the FEDS, especially after Governor Blanco declared a State of Emergency in NO on August 28th. (http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=) The President can take control of the National Guard and whatever other resources he needs with a simple Presidential stroke of the pin, but that pin stroke never came because the WH wanted to lay the blame on the lack of appropriate planning and supplies in the evacuation centers on the locals.

*during the Rodney King riots in LA President Reagan took control of the California National Guard


LOL you are finally right about something...Bush most certainly could have Federalized the Louisiana Guard and ripped the authority from the Govenor...and it was indeed a mistake for him not to do so.

Because you should never leave the modern Democratic Party in charge of any emergency...because they are not capable of doing anything these days other than blaming Bush.

However since he didn't do that...FEMA doesn't now, nor did it ever, have authority in Louisiana, their power was limited to granting the requests of the govenor as she made them...and the Louisiana Guard wasn't in New Orleans prior to the Hurricane(seriously)...and Bush cannot Federalize a police force...

FEMA is designed to support state and local governments...it is designed to be a support organization...her main motivations for pusing for the SOE were financial...not because she wanted Bush ripping power from her...she doesn't even want to share power.

But you are right...Bush not stripping that incompetent Democrat bitch of her authority over the Louisiana Guard is the worst mistake anyone made in all of this.

LOL..classic...it's Bush's fault because he respected the authority of a Democratic Govenor, sadly you are right though. Bring on that Presidential Dictatorship and let's get rid of the last vestiges of the Democrat Power Base...


LOL you are now a political suicide bomber...


And Reagan wasn't President during the Rodney King incident or the riots.

[Nbadan]

LOL you are finally right about something...Bush most certainly could have Federalized the Louisiana Guard and ripped the authority from the Govenor...and it was indeed a mistake for him not to do so.

Because you should never leave the modern Democratic Party in charge of any emergency...because they are not capable of doing anything these days other than blaming Bush.

However since he didn't do that...FEMA doesn't now, nor did it ever, have authority in Louisiana, their power was limited to granting the requests of the govenor as she made them...and the Louisiana Guard wasn't in New Orleans prior to the Hurricane(seriously)...and Bush cannot Federalize a police force...

FEMA is designed to support state and local governments...it is designed to be a support organization...her main motivations for pusing for the SOE were financial...not because she wanted Bush ripping power from her...she doesn't even want to share power.

But you are right...Bush not stripping that incompetent Democrat bitch of her authority over the Louisiana Guard is the worst mistake anyone made in all of this.

LOL..classic...it's Bush's fault because he respected the authority of a Democratic Govenor, sadly you are right though. Bring on that Presidential Dictatorship and let's get rid of the last vestiges of the Democrat Power Base...


LOL you are now a political suicide bomber...


And Reagan wasn't President during the Rodney King incident or the riots.

Whatever Whott. The fact remains that W never federalized either the preparations for the Hurricane nor the search and recovery phase after the storm. To you it may seem hilarious that thousands of Americans died because the FEDS were too busy playing political games to do their job effectively, but once the truth comes out and the documents show that both the Mayor and Governor followed the letter of the law, we will see how funny all of this really is.

[whottt]

Is it lost on you that in your unrelenting hatred of the Bush administration you are now advocating that an Administration you despise take a big ideological piss on the 10th admentment at the direct expense of your political party...just so you can make him look bad?

You are criticizing him for respecting the authority of one of your own party leaders...

Not only that..but states rights have long been the backbone of the Republican Party, so it should not surprise you that a Republican President was loathe to shit on them, especially a Democrat Govenor...Even more ironic is that Bush is continually criticized by the Democrats for not respecting States rights.

You're insane. Your party is insane.

[whottt]

Whatever Whott. The fact remains that W never federalized either the preparations for the Hurricane nor the search and recovery phase after the storm.

Nor did the Govenor want him to do so....

That's what you overlook...she didn't want him to do that...she didn't even want to share power...she wanted to be in charge so she could look like a strong leader and she got in over her head.



To you it may seem hilarious that thousands of Americans died because the FEDS were too busy playing political games to do their job effectively,

Respecting the authority of a Democratically elected Democrat Govenor is Political Games?


but once the truth comes out and the documents show that both the Mayor and Governor followed the letter of the law, we will see how funny all of this really is.

Bush granted that bitch everything she asked for, in advance...

Bush followed the letter of the law as well...so did FEMA...but what the Govenor and Mayor did not follow was their own fucking evacuation plan.

And in case you haven't noticed...the Mayor and Govenor are at each others throats these days...so even if what you say is true...they are still shitty leaders who are now sniping at each other rather than unified. The weakness of character under pressure still shines through. They failed...

No one is denying FEMA fucked up getting supplies through...but this Govenor and Mayor were the weakest links in this...

[Nbadan]

Is it lost on you that in your unrelenting hatred of the Bush administration you are now advocating that an Administration you despise take a big ideological piss on the 10th admentment at the direct expense of your political party...just so you can make him look bad?

You are criticizing him for respecting the authority of one of your own party leaders...

Not only that..but states rights have long been the backbone of the Republican Party, so it should not surprise you that a Republican President was loathe to shit on them, especially a Democrat Govenor...Even more ironic is that Bush is continually criticized by the Democrats for not respecting States rights.

You're insane. Your party is insane.


What state's rights? Whott, that Republican party is long dead. Today’s Republican party is about Federalized National Security, a National ID card, interventionism, and control from the top down.

No, my friend, it is not my party which is insane, it is your party which has been philosophically hijacked under your very nose, and all you can do, because you have no real sense of what's real or not anymore because you’ve been lied to so much , is to keep supporting a slowly sinking ship.

[Nbadan]

Respecting the authority of a Democratically elected Democrat Govenor is Political Games?

That's bullshit, the FEDS were gonna lay the blame for the whole thing on the Governor and the Mayor and the Governor saw through that.

[cecil collins]

Is it lost on you that in your unrelenting hatred of the Bush administration you are now advocating that an Administration you despise take a big ideological piss on the 10th admentment at the direct expense of your political party...just so you can make him look bad?

You are criticizing him for respecting the authority of one of your own party leaders...

Not only that..but states rights have long been the backbone of the Republican Party, so it should not surprise you that a Republican President was loathe to shit on them, especially a Democrat Govenor...Even more ironic is that Bush is continually criticized by the Democrats for not respecting States rights.

You're insane. Your party is insane.

How is it that you get off scott-free of your hatred for anything left of a nazi. I would say you defend Bush more relentlessly than Dan attacks him. I still don't believe you were a democrat.

[Nbadan]

Excellent points made in another forum about why the School Buses were irrelavent...

The school buses are IRRELEVANT. Here's why.

Let's think this through...

Suppose, just because we're in right-wing fantasyland here, that the city of New Orleans had managed to load ALL its poor, disabled, and frail elderly onto school buses, city buses, horse-drawn carriages, motorcycle sidecars, or any other combination of vehicles.

Then what?

Because "Then what?" is the relevant question, NOT the number of school buses.

Imagine a convoy of poor, disabled, and elderly people streaming out of New Orleans.

Where do they go?

Can the mayor order that they just be dumped off in the nearest unaffected town? All 100,000 of them? Or maybe 1,000 in each of the unaffected towns along the Interstate? Right, just what every town wants. One thousand people showing up unannounced. One thousand people with no money showing up unannounced.

Should they be dropped off one by one as soon as there are motels with "No Vacancy" signs? (Never mind that motels were booked solid for some incredible number of miles around.) Ooookaaaay, but how do they pay for their motel bills? What do they eat?

Should those who have relatives out of the storm area be allowed to go to those relatives? Not a bad idea for those who have relatives--but who pays their way there?

Do you see what I'm getting at?

If you argue with right-wingers about how many buses there were, you're missing the point. The Republicanite strategists know that spreading the talking point about the buses will get everyone into fruitless arguments about how many buses there were and take the focus off FEMA's lack of regional coordination for the widely foretold inundation of New Orleans.

The mayor of New Orleans had no authority to dump evacuees on other towns. The other towns were unprepared to take them, and those in Mississippi had their own displaced persons.

This is why disaster relief plans for large cities need to be on a regional basis, because most of them have a sphere of influence that extends beyond state borders.

The disaster plan for New Orleans should have included stockpiling survival supplies in public buildings every community out of the flood zone, determining how many evacuees each community could absorb, and designating someone in that community to manage disaster relief.

On the New Orleans side, there should have been a "block captain" on every block whose job it was to find out who had a car, who had financial resources to evacuate independently, and who would be willing to give a ride to a neighbor. The block captain would have reported back to regional FEMA headquarters how many people would need transportation out of the city and how many would need subsidized shelter. The block captain would also designate a deputy, who would take over if the block captain was killed or injured in the disaster.

FEMA would then decide how many buses would be needed to transport the non-mobile and where the displaced from each neighborhood would be sent. If possible, people from the same neighborhood would be kept together.

That's what should have been done.

Because it wasn't done, it doesn't matter whether there were 200 school buses or 200 thousand.

The fact remains that 100,000 people had nowhere to go and no way to support themselves, even if they did evacuate.

[Useruser666]

Dan your reasoning is flawed in many ways. What is better for an elderly or otherwise immoble person, being dropped off at a small town with no food or water, or sitting in their home as the water rises to the top of the roof and they have no food or water in the middle of a class 5 hurricane?

Which is better Dan?

[TOP-CHERRY]

Dan your reasoning is flawed in many ways. What is better for an elderly or otherwise immoble person, being droppped off at a small town with no food or water, or sitting in their home as the water rises to the top of the roof and they have no food or water in the middle of a class 5 hurricane?

Which is better Dan?
Leave him. He's desperately grasping for straws.

[Nbadan]

Dan your reasoning is flawed in many ways. What is better for an elderly or otherwise immoble person, being dropped off at a small town with no food or water, or sitting in their home as the water rises to the top of the roof and they have no food or water in the middle of a class 5 hurricane?

Which is better Dan?

No, the alternatives would have been dropping the poor and homeless off in small towns along the way, and letting them take care of them or shove them all in the Superdome. FEMA, advising local and State authorities, choose the second route.

[Nbadan]

Leave him. He's desperately grasping for straws.

Umm...no. When it comes down to it, even using the buses would have require mega-doses of regional coordination. Which means that this should have been a local-state-and FED responsibility. You keep trying to blame the little guy with no resources while ignoring the big, rich elephant in the room.

[Al Sharpton]

Leave him. He's desperately grasping for straws.


Good thing Bush still has his straw from his collage coke days.

[Nbadan]

You know, one thing I find common among most Republicans I meet is a lack of any real empathy for the little guy. It's always the little guys fault. So what if the FEDS have 100x's the resources and military coordination already at hand that a city Mayor or even a Governor can only dream of having? So what if the President was satified in letting FEMA play an advisory role to State and Local officials?

[AFE7FATMAN]

Good thing Bush still has his straw from his collage coke days.

RACK^^^ :lol

I drove from Louisana Downs to SA on Sunday the day before Katrina hit, at 15-45 MPH starting at 3 in the afternoon on IH 10 with the bumper to bumper traffic. I even took highway 90 in Gulfport to get out of the traffic on 1-10. I saw no one buming a ride. I also did not see one single bus.

Sorry Dan, but on the bus issue, Nagin takes the hit.
than lets Slap Blanco
Tell Bush to wake up
and lets put Mr Brown next to some dead bodies and let him stand
in the toxic soup, until all the Skitters in LA are no longer thirsty.

[Nbadan]

Sorry Dan, but on the bus issue, Nagin takes the hit.

There is stuff Nagin could take a hit for, like not organizing block captains to ensure a more orderly emergency evacuation, and not pressing State and Federal officials to lengthen the Levees much sooner, however, the buses aren't likely to hurt him because using them would have required regional coordination and FED resources, neither of which were under the discretion of the Mayor or the Governor.

[Nbadan]

..and school buses are not air conditioned nor do they have bathrooms. Besides, it's not like city buses weren't used to ferry people without transportation to the SuperDome...

Buses were used to PU people at 12 locations:
Buses were used to pick up people at 12 locations - Prior to storm
Edited on Fri Sep-09-05 04:59 AM by DoYouEverWonder
Sunday, August 28, 2005


Around 112,000 Orleanians do not own cars, according to census data. Nagin urged those people to seek rides with friends, family, neighbors and church members. Those who could not find rides were urged to get to the Superdome as quickly as possible.

Regional Transit Authority buses were scheduled to ferry people to the dome from 12 locations around the city beginning at noon today.

Meantime, to make sure word of the mandatory evacuation gets out, Nagin said that police and fire crews would be driving through neighborhoods Sunday with bullhorns, directing people to leave.

The evacuation order contained exemptions for certain people, including city, state and federal officials, inmates of the parish prison, those in hospitals, tourists staying in hotels and members of the media.

NOLA (http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlo)

An emergency order Nagin announced Sunday in declaring the mandatory evacuation gives authorities the right to commandeer private buildings and vehicles — including boats — as they see fit.

The mayor did not say which buildings might be seized for public use. For the time being, the Superdome will be used as a “shelter of last resort” for those unable to evacuate the city. If the dome fills to capacity, other buildings could be appropriated, Nagin said.

Nagin said the dome’s availability to residents doesn’t mean that going there is a good idea.

What I wanna know is, why wasn't there a caravan of FEMA confiscated commercial buses heading in and out of NO before the storm?

[AFE7FATMAN]

..

What I wanna know is, why wasn't there a caravan of FEMA confiscated commercial buses heading in and out of NO before the storm?

Nagin didn't ask for them. There were several Buses at the Casinos.

[jochhejaam]

..and school buses are not air conditioned nor do they have bathrooms. ...


Yeah dan, we wouldn't have wanted to ferry the people out to save lives in busses withoug AC or bathrooms. :rolleyes

[Nbadan]

Look at Gurwitz trying to sell this bus crap again in the opt section of the local fishwrap. What a moran. (inside joke)

[The Ressurrected One]

Yeah dan, we wouldn't have wanted to ferry the people out to save lives in busses withoug AC or bathrooms. :rolleyes
Much rather have them crapping on each other and sleeping in feces and urine on the floor of the un-air conditioned Superdome concourses.

[Useruser666]

Do those people who were left in their flooded out homes have bathrooms and a/c?