Killing Jesus Movie - Thoughts?

[spursncowboys]

If you didn't watch it, Oreilley portrayed Jesus through "research" of explaining all of New Testament stories without any miracles. At first it annoyed me. Because this way and 'Jesus was an extremist in a long list of extremist Jewish "cults" of that era'. its seems to be the new story that I've seen to be reading about lately, too often. So that's why I didn't really give the book a chance.

Anyways, I watched it and it was really good. I liked how they tried to show all the other aspects and storylines. The Jewish High Priests trying to build a case against jesus. The real way of Jesus coming and having to deal with a brother who's pissed that he's related to this radical. The family of Saul.

It truly was a movie about jesus without being religious.

I knew the critics wouldn't like it. They would assume it was just another jesus movie. Or they wouldn't watch it for the same assumption.

I knew the religious critics and talking heads wouldn't like it. They would think oreilley was treating jesus as a regular guy who at the end, was pushed to call himself son of god.

I really liked it and thought i wouldn't. I always knew there was a group of christians who thought of jesus as the son of god, but just a regular guy who never did any miracles and just came to deliver the 'good news'. I figured to look at it like they would and to look at jesus as a historical figure. how it might of happened, and i feel this is the closest way to do that.

[DisAsTerBot]

wut?

[spursncowboys]

huh?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Did they talk about how in hebrew society at the time children conceived out of wedlock were called mazmers and not allowed into mainstream jewish culture? that mary would have been viewed as an unclean whore and jesus like m>s treats black kids? That it was a great motive for Saul who was a politician caught up in such thing to make up the 'God knocked her up' story?

[Sportcamper]

Ahh Jeez…I hope that people are not getting their Biblical Theology from Bill O'Reilly…
It’s like why even waste your time…:lol

If you want to learn about Jesus may I recommend a book by a well known Theologian…
The Gospel according To Jesus by John MacArthur...

[spursncowboys]

Did they talk about how in hebrew society at the time children conceived out of wedlock were called mazmers and not allowed into mainstream jewish culture? that mary would have been viewed as an unclean whore and jesus like m>s treats black kids? That it was a great motive for Saul who was a politician caught up in such thing to make up the 'God knocked her up' story?
So you liked the movie? Or is this a atheist moment? Have you read the bible or just what atheist bloggers say about it?

[spursncowboys]

Ahh Jeez…I hope that people are not getting their Biblical Theology from Bill O'Reilly…
It’s like why even waste your time…:lol

If you want to learn about Jesus may I recommend a book by a well known Theologian…
The Gospel according To Jesus by John MacArthur...
A good amount of historians have praised his research and historical accountability in his killing lincoln, and kennedy. To just assume that his show isn't to your liking, he must not have produced a good product is a little immature.

I appreciate the recommendation. I'll definitely check it out. :toast

[Blake]

Oreilley portrayed Jesus through "research" of explaining all of New Testament stories without any miracles. At first it annoyed me.

Lol miracles

[Sportcamper]

I appreciate the recommendation. I'll definitely check it out. :toast

I seriously doubt that anyone who wastes his time with Bill O’Reilly’s childish, non Biblical account of Jesus will take the time to read an actual account of Jesus written by a world known Theologian…

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So you liked the movie? Or is this a atheist moment? Have you read the bible or just what atheist bloggers say about it?

I actually got that take from a professor of theology at Loyola Marymount. Did they bring up marriage, mazmers first century hebrew culture and why there is so little recorded of his early life?

[Blake]

I seriously doubt that anyone who wastes his time with Bill O’Reilly’s childish, non Biblical account of Jesus will take the time to read an actual account of Jesus written by a world known Theologian…

what's the difference

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So you liked the movie? Or is this a atheist moment? Have you read the bible or just what atheist bloggers say about it?

http://www.amazon.com/Rabbi-Jesus-An-Intimate-Biography/dp/0385497938

HAven't watched it. That is the book in question.

[101A]

Ahh Jeez…I hope that people are not getting their Biblical Theology from Bill O'Reilly…
It’s like why even waste your time…:lol

If you want to learn about Jesus may I recommend a book by a well known Theologian…
The Gospel according To Jesus by John MacArthur...

Just read some reviews on Amazon & ordered it. Thanks.

[spursncowboys]

http://www.amazon.com/Rabbi-Jesus-An-Intimate-Biography/dp/0385497938

HAven't watched it. That is the book in question.
No the movie didn't bring up mamzer. The book looks pretty interesting though.

[CosmicCowboy]

WTF? Jesus wasn't the son of God?

[boutons_deux]

WTF? Jesus wasn't the son of God?

product marketing bullshit to sell their Guy ahead of many competing world views, same with resurrection, miracles, etc, etc. All marketing bullshit. Christ became God only 40+ years AFTER He died.

[CosmicCowboy]

So how the fuck are we all supposed to get into heaven now?

[Drachen]

So how the fuck are we all supposed to get into heaven now?

Stop eating pig and lobster

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Stop eating pig and lobster

I've lost the taste for bacon but I'm not giving up lobster.

[CosmicCowboy]

Stop eating pig and lobster

Fuck it then. Hell can't be that bad. All my friends will be there. :lol

[spursncowboys]

I've lost the taste for bacon but I'm not giving up lobster.
http://dailynewsdig.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/20-Funny-Shocked-Cat-Memes-3.jpg

[Blake]

So how the fuck are we all supposed to get into heaven now?

Heaven sounds boring as shit any way

[CosmicCowboy]

Heaven sounds boring as shit any way

Yeah, streets paved with gold aren't shit if you can't buy anything fun.

[The Reckoning]

why would you want to live for eternity? i'd rather just die and be done with.

[SnakeBoy]

I've seen a little bit of it but not enough to say whether I liked it or not. I might get around to watching it later.

I do like how any thread that mentions God/Jesus/Religion is like a dog whistle to the forum atheists.

[spursncowboys]

I've seen a little bit of it but not enough to say whether I liked it or not. I might get around to watching it later.

I do like how any thread that mentions God/Jesus/Religion is like a dog whistle to the forum atheists. Yeah I don't get it.

http://funnyasduck.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/funny-scumbag-atheist-dont-let-religion-rule-life-talk-christianity-all-day-pics.jpg

[Blake]

I do like how any thread that mentions God/Jesus/Religion is like a dog whistle to the forum atheists.

I like how you guys would rather bad mouth atheists instead of trying to convert them as your lord commands you to

[Sportcamper]

I like how you guys would rather bad mouth atheists instead of trying to convert them as your lord commands you to

I do not argue with atheists but this is what our Lord actually commanded...

“Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet …“Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the Day of Judgment than for that city"...

Mathew 10:14

[Blake]

He also commanded:

2 Timothy 2:24-26English Standard Version (ESV)

24*And*the Lord's servant[a]*must not be quarrelsome but*kind to everyone,*able to teach, patiently enduring evil,*25*correcting his opponents*with gentleness. God*may perhaps grant them repentanceleading to a knowledge of the truth,*26*and they may come to their senses and escape from*the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.


Pretty rare to find board Christians adhering to this command.

[spursncowboys]

He also commanded:

2 Timothy 2:24-26English Standard Version (ESV)

24*And*the Lord's servant[a]*must not be quarrelsome but*kind to everyone,*able to teach, patiently enduring evil,*25*correcting his opponents*with gentleness. God*may perhaps grant them repentanceleading to a knowledge of the truth,*26*and they may come to their senses and escape from*the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.


Pretty rare to find board Christians adhering to this command.
I hate when christians try and be perfect, as the only time to talk about god. Everyone fucks up.
But it's pretty pathetic to use a great and beautiful philosophical way to live, regardless if you believe in the religion, to demean the few who openly admit to being christians on this board. Yeah whoever you're speaking about isn't perfect. Doesn't make Jesus' teachings any less relevent.

[Blake]

I hate when christians try and be perfect, as the only time to talk about god. Everyone fucks up.
But it's pretty pathetic to use a great and beautiful philosophical way to live, regardless if you believe in the religion, to demean the few who openly admit to being christians on this board. Yeah whoever you're speaking about isn't perfect. Doesn't make Jesus' teachings any less relevent.

oh the ol :cry we're not perfect but we're forgiven :cry excuse to justify Christians being assholes

[spursncowboys]

oh the ol :cry we're not perfect but we're forgiven :cry excuse to justify Christians being assholes
Yeah because your shtick isn't as old as Christianity itself. Also good job dealing with the multiple points in a post.

[Blake]

Yeah because your shtick isn't as old as Christianity itself. Also good job dealing with the multiple points in a post.

lol you're expecting me to "deal" with each sentence in your post?

which point (s) do you want me to respond to

[boutons_deux]

"who openly admit to being christians"

that's absolutely NO PROBLEM.

it's the Christian Taliban supremacists

who want to teach the Bible as scientific, historical FACT in taxpayer funded SECULAR schools,

who refuse to accept, who trash science as nothing but "theory" on equal ground with creationism,

who don't want to take care of the environment because End Times be a comin' any ol' how, y'all,

who believe environmental, nuclear catastrophes are End Times and GOD's WILL,

who want to install "Christianity" as the official, authoritarian religion at all levels of govt,

who want to replace all laws with the Bible, and 10 commandments.

... and all the other crazy-assed, religion-poisoned bullshit "Christians" aggressively try to bully non-Christians with.

[SnakeBoy]

Yeah I don't get it.

http://funnyasduck.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/funny-scumbag-atheist-dont-let-religion-rule-life-talk-christianity-all-day-pics.jpg

Fits Blake to a tee. Dude spends more time quoting scripture than a priest.

[Blake]

Fits Blake to a tee. Dude spends more time quoting scripture than a priest.

You guys spend more time whining about me than staying on topic.

[boutons_deux]

Iowa GOP official says Christians should enjoy special rights: ‘There’s only one true God’

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Tamara-Scott-YouTube-800x430.png

“When we fail to teach it in the public school, the history of this nation, the God mentioned in our Declaration, the Supreme Being mentioned in the preamble of this constitution of the state,” she continued. “We not only don’t teach it, but we suppress it and refuse to allow it to be taught.”

Scott, who has previously warned that child migrants were being trained as warriors (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/iowa-rnc-official-child-migrants-highly-trained-as-warriors-may-rise-up-against-us/), said this encourages Americans to believe all religions should be treated fairly under the law.
“We shouldn’t be surprised when others do differently and expect differently and think that religion is just about equality, because it’s not,” Scott said. “There’s only one true God — and the Bible’s quite clear about what happens when we refuse to tell the truth and we allow others to tell a wrong truth.”

She conceded that Muslims had a First Amendment right to promote their religion, but she said Christianity should be favored under U.S. law.

“The shame is that so little people know the truth about the heritage, the Christian heritage — I’m sorry, Mr. President, but we are, we were a Christian nation and we were founded on Christian values,” Scott said.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/iowa-gop-official-says-christians-should-enjoy-special-rights-theres-only-one-true-god/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

you Repugs are brain-damaged

[Blake]

Damn

[SnakeBoy]

http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk218/Archammer_ds/You-boys-know-what-a-circle-jerk-is.jpg

[Blake]

http://m.quickmeme.com/img/7e/7e0f2cd06e4ff57fd80e42fd91c576a86a4160e3c68c34269b d5a83b690c34d5.jpg

[spursncowboys]

Iowa GOP official says Christians should enjoy special rights: ‘There’s only one true God’

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/Tamara-Scott-YouTube-800x430.png

“When we fail to teach it in the public school, the history of this nation, the God mentioned in our Declaration, the Supreme Being mentioned in the preamble of this constitution of the state,” she continued. “We not only don’t teach it, but we suppress it and refuse to allow it to be taught.”

Scott, who has previously warned that child migrants were being trained as warriors (http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/iowa-rnc-official-child-migrants-highly-trained-as-warriors-may-rise-up-against-us/), said this encourages Americans to believe all religions should be treated fairly under the law.
“We shouldn’t be surprised when others do differently and expect differently and think that religion is just about equality, because it’s not,” Scott said. “There’s only one true God — and the Bible’s quite clear about what happens when we refuse to tell the truth and we allow others to tell a wrong truth.”

She conceded that Muslims had a First Amendment right to promote their religion, but she said Christianity should be favored under U.S. law.

“The shame is that so little people know the truth about the heritage, the Christian heritage — I’m sorry, Mr. President, but we are, we were a Christian nation and we were founded on Christian values,” Scott said.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2015/04/iowa-gop-official-says-christians-should-enjoy-special-rights-theres-only-one-true-god/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

you Repugs are brain-damaged


here's a better idea of what she was saying. I agree.
jOrvu9-GQAQ

[ElNono]

here's a better idea of what she was saying. I agree.
jOrvu9-GQAQ

lol @ the comments

[spursncowboys]

lol @ the comments
I went back excited to read some funny, witty material. All I saw was hate and name calling. Thanks for wasting my time.

[ElNono]

I went back excited to read some funny, witty material. All I saw was hate and name calling. Thanks for wasting my time.

Hey, I didn't write them. I do think she shouldn't be anywhere near any decision-making position though.

Plus, the hair comment was pretty funny, IMO

[SnakeBoy]

Hey, I didn't write them. I do think she shouldn't be anywhere near any decision-making position though.


Why is that? I don't know who that chick is but I didn't hear anything alarming in the video.

[ElNono]

Why is that? I don't know who that chick is but I didn't hear anything alarming in the video.

Because I want faith as far away as possible from decision-making, and she strikes me as a person that could never do that.

IMO, religion is personal. I respect and defend your right to believe whatever you want. From Xenu to the Bible. Whatever works for you, whatever lets you sleep at night.

But once you step into a position that affects a whole lot of people, I want decisions to be made based on facts, science and whatever is good for all those people, and not on the Bible or whatever else magical devices.

[ElNono]

BTW, this is still largely a Christian nation. The whole victim/persecution angle is demagoguery at it's finest.

[ElNono]

There's a line between culture and government: culturally, this is undoubtedly a christian nation, but the government is secular. That's exactly how this country was founded, with separation of church and state.

Some people want to blur that line, or conflate those two aspects, but that's not how it works. If you're in government, making government decisions, you need to leave faith at the door. When you go home, you can reacquaint yourself with your deity.

[boutons_deux]

BTW, this is still largely a Christian nation. The whole victim/persecution angle is demagoguery at it's finest.

Some people are nominally Christians, the FORM OF GOVT, at all levels, is SECULAR.

[boutons_deux]

"Christian" business in Confederate Georgia, thanks, SCOTUS5 and Hobby Lobby "true believers"

Georgia Walmart Refuses to Fill Prescription for Miscarriage Patient

State law allows pharmacists to refuse a prescription if they feel it violates their personal beliefs

In Milledgeville, Georgia, Brittany Cartrett recently was informed by her doctor of something no expecting mother wanted to hear: she had miscarried (http://www.wgxa.tv/news/topstories/Milledgeville-Pharmacist-Refuses-to-Fill-Prescription-for-Miscarriage-Patient-299421801.html) early in her pregnancy, about four or five weeks in. Her doctor called a Walmart in Milledgeville asking that it provide Cartrett with a medication that would help her pass naturally.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/georgia-walmart-refuses-fill-prescription-miscarriage-patient

iow, "Your Vagina Is My Christian Business"

Thanks to the political hacks SCOTUS5, you can believe any old shit fantasy "sincerely" and fuck over anybody.

[Blake]

here's a better idea of what she was saying. I agree.
jOrvu9-GQAQ

Lol she's bat shit crazy

smh about needing Christian god in our public schools. She sounds like a southern baptist preacher

[Blake]

And rofl at her praying for lightning to strike down the wiccan.

Of course, the Bible does command that witches get stitches so there's that

[boutons_deux]

culturally, this is undoubtedly a christian nation

bullshit. It's a secular society that is, thanks to Christian Puritans (nasty people), deathly afraid of a female nipple. Christian Taliban theocrats are pushing hard, LYING non-stop that America was founded by Christians, for Christians, and that God loves America first. It's ALL BULLSHIT.

I don't want a dollar of my property taxes wasted as vouchers to Christian indoctrination scam schools. If Christians want their kids indoctrinated in Christian bullshit schools, they pay their own full freight.

[spursncowboys]

And rofl at her praying for lightning to strike down the wiccan.

Of course, the Bible does command that witches get stitches so there's that
That was a joke. So you laughed at her joke. Well played.

[spursncowboys]

Lol she's bat shit crazy

smh about needing Christian god in our public schools. She sounds like a southern baptist preacher
It was great how her crazy ass said that it was the muslim's 1st Amendment right to pray too, huh? What a loon.

[spursncowboys]

There's a line between culture and government: culturally, this is undoubtedly a christian nation, but the government is secular. That's exactly how this country was founded, with separation of church and state.

Some people want to blur that line, or conflate those two aspects, but that's not how it works. If you're in government, making government decisions, you need to leave faith at the door. When you go home, you can reacquaint yourself with your deity.
I agree that US never wanted to have the government pay for churches, like in Europe. But I don't think any of them meant to take God in every sense of the word out of every government establishment.

[spursncowboys]

I don't want a dollar of my property taxes wasted as vouchers to Christian indoctrination scam schools. If Christians want their kids indoctrinated in Christian bullshit schools, they pay their own full freight.
How does other people's property tax equate to being your property tax?

[boutons_deux]

How does other people's property tax equate to being your property tax?

:lol what?

[Blake]

That was a joke. So you laughed at her joke. Well played.

I pray that she gets nailed to a cross.

[Blake]

It was great how her crazy ass said that it was the muslim's 1st Amendment right to pray too, huh? What a loon.

oh so you just want to focus on the ok stuff she said but not the crazy stuff.

[SnakeBoy]

That was a joke. So you laughed at her joke. Well played.

:lol

[SnakeBoy]

Because I want faith as far away as possible from decision-making, and she strikes me as a person that could never do that.

IMO, religion is personal. I respect and defend your right to believe whatever you want. From Xenu to the Bible. Whatever works for you, whatever lets you sleep at night.

But once you step into a position that affects a whole lot of people, I want decisions to be made based on facts, science and whatever is good for all those people, and not on the Bible or whatever else magical devices.

I generally agree with all that other than assuming she is a whack job. She may be but I don't get that just from the video.

[SnakeBoy]

BTW, this is still largely a Christian nation. The whole victim/persecution angle is demagoguery at it's finest.

Dems have their War on Women, Republicans have their War on Christmas.

[boutons_deux]

Dems have their War on Women

:lol what? :lol

[ElNono]

bullshit. It's a secular society

No it's not. Over 70% of the population deem themselves Christian. They might be good, not so good, bad Christians, but culturally, that means this is largely a Christian nation.

The fight is over government, which was undoubtedly founded as a secular entity. This whole discussion is over 200 years old, you can go back to the 1794 Treaty of Tripoli and you already have Christians complaining of Art 11 there.

[ElNono]

I agree that US never wanted to have the government pay for churches, like in Europe. But I don't think any of them meant to take God in every sense of the word out of every government establishment.

The First Amendment makes clear religion freedom is an individual right. It's clear that government at any level picking one deity over another creates inherent barriers to that right, which is why separation of church and state is explicitly denoted.

Your follow a line of thought that some religious people follow, and that is, "well, they were largely christian, so, wink-wink". IMO, that's not correct and Jefferson (Thomas, not Richard) was fairly explicit on Man & God and keeping the state out of that relationship.

[ElNono]

I generally agree with all that other than assuming she is a whack job. She may be but I don't get that just from the video.

May be an unfair video to judge her by, but it's all I have. Frankly, I felt I needed a shower after watching that.


Dems have their War on Women, Republicans have their War on Christmas.

Marketing names for war on social conservatism, which IMO, needs to die in a fire. I like some things on the economic side of conservatism, but very little on the social agenda.

[SnakeBoy]

May be an unfair video to judge her by, but it's all I have. Frankly, I felt I needed a shower after watching that.


Meh, a Christian talking to other Christians about Christianity doesn't bother me. She even mentions that Muslims rights. It's that hair that bothers me.

I'd have to hear more to decide she was a nutter. Huckabee didn't bother me until I heard him telling a deer hunting story to an NRA group and he said God guided his bullet to the buck.



Marketing names for war on social conservatism, which IMO, needs to die in a fire. I like some things on the economic side of conservatism, but very little on the social agenda.

Catering to the Evangelical base is killing the GOP.

[boutons_deux]

No it's not. Over 70% of the population deem themselves Christian. They might be good, not so good, bad Christians, but culturally, that means this is largely a Christian nation.


The people might call themselves so-called Christians, but the govt is secular, top to bottom, except where Christians are putting their Christian HATE, morals, ethics into law.

Religion in the United States (2014)[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States#cite_note-gallup2014-1)
Protestant (37%)
Catholic (23%)
Mormon (2%)
Other Christian (10%)
Jewish (2%)
Other (6%)
None (16%)
No answer (4%)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_United_States

Protestants, esp Confederate Southern Baptists and other rural asshole Christians. I got no problem with any of them, except EVERY ONE OF THEM who wants to install their flavor of Protestant cult as the official religion of the USA, state, city, etc.

[Blake]

Meh, a Christian talking to other Christians about Christianity doesn't bother me.

It wouldn't me either except that she's running for office and talking about putting her one true god back in public schools because sorry Mr Obama.....this country is a Christian country gawddammit

[dbestpro]

As atheism has taken on more of a religious status in its own right, perhaps it would be better to contrast and compare religions in school, and let the cards fall where they may. It is not about picking a side, but rather what is the position of each entity.

After all, isn't that the function of school? To disseminate knowledge? Avoiding issues of religion when we live in a world that is mostly controlled by religion is tantamount to sticking your head in the sand regarding global issues. This would not violate the popular interpretation of church and state as it would not support one faith over another. To not allow anything in and of itself does support one belief over the rest.

[SnakeBoy]

As atheism has taken on more of a religious status in its own right, perhaps it would be better to contrast and compare religions in school, and let the cards fall where they may. It is not about picking a side, but rather what is the position of each entity.


Religion should be a mandatory class from middle school on. Same goes for personal finance/economics. The two things that will have the largest impact on a persons life are either not taught or deemed optional.

[Blake]

As atheism has taken on more of a religious status in its own right, perhaps it would be better to contrast and compare religions in school, and let the cards fall where they may. It is not about picking a side, but rather what is the position of each entity.

Which religions?

[Blake]

Religion should be a mandatory class from middle school on. Same goes for personal finance/economics. The two things that will have the largest impact on a persons life are either not taught or deemed optional.

smh forcing religion on kids. Fuck.

[SnakeBoy]

smh forcing religion on kids. Fuck.

Classes on the fundamental beliefs of major religions and the different denominations of those religions would be helpful for kids to understand the world around them.

[Blake]

Classes on the fundamental beliefs of major religions and the different denominations of those religions would be helpful for kids to understand the world around them.

Helpful how? Give an example.

[boutons_deux]

History of Religion

Comparative Religions, including study of their sacred texts.

are usually college courses. Would probably be ignored by Christians who have been indoctrinated to be closed-minded about non-Christianity.

[Blake]

History of Religion

Comparative Religions, including study of their sacred texts.

are usually college courses. Would probably be ignored by Christians who have been indoctrinated to be closed-minded about non-Christianity.

And that's where the in depth study belongs. In high school, it should be mentioned only as background to historical events.

Like the crusades for example....

[SnakeBoy]

Helpful how? Give an example.

The middle east.

[SnakeBoy]

Has religion have a major effect on your life Blake?

[baseline bum]

Classes on the fundamental beliefs of major religions and the different denominations of those religions would be helpful for kids to understand the world around them.

Oh man, the shitstorm from parents would be priceless when their kids are taught about Christianity from a historical instead of biblical view. :lol

[Blake]

The middle east.

if that's it, then the answer is still lol smh no.

[SnakeBoy]

Oh man, the shitstorm from parents would be priceless when their kids are taught about Christianity from a historical instead of biblical view. :lol

True. Probably why they will never be mandatory classes.

[Blake]

Oh man, the shitstorm from parents would be priceless when their kids are taught about Christianity from a historical instead of biblical view. :lol

Lol or Islam from a peaceful view instead of a terrorist.

[Blake]

True. Probably why they will never be mandatory classes.

And shouldn't be

[Blake]

Has religion have a major effect on your life Blake?

only that it was forced on me as a kid, but in the end, no.

[SnakeBoy]

if that's it, then the answer is still lol smh no.

Can you accurately explain the politics and history of the middle east without mentioning religion? I like to hear it.

[baseline bum]

Oh man I can imagine the outrage when schools talk about the winter solstice and Christmas together in their religion classes.

[SnakeBoy]

No

You are one clueless motherfucker.

[Blake]

Can you accurately explain the politics and history of the middle east without mentioning religion? I like to hear it.

mentioning it is fine.

A full mandatory high school course on it lol no.

[Blake]

You are one clueless motherfucker.

Ok, how has it affected me

[Blake]

Oh man I can imagine the outrage when schools talk about the winter solstice and Christmas together in their religion classes.

Momma we learned that Christmas trees came from dem pagans. I thought you said it was a jeebus tree

[ElNono]

Religion should be a mandatory class from middle school on. Same goes for personal finance/economics. The two things that will have the largest impact on a persons life are either not taught or deemed optional.

Religion should be left to the individual. It's fine to tell them there's plenty of religions and each one of them has it's own philosophy. If they're interested, they can go visit a temple and get more info.

Completely disagree about religion having an impact. It does on some individuals, it doesn't at all on others. That's like saying psychology sessions should be mandatory.

[spursncowboys]

No it's not. Over 70% of the population deem themselves Christian. They might be good, not so good, bad Christians, but culturally, that means this is largely a Christian nation.

The fight is over government, which was undoubtedly founded as a secular entity. This whole discussion is over 200 years old, you can go back to the 1794 Treaty of Tripoli and you already have Christians complaining of Art 11 there. I would say unbiased or impartial to religion in general. But not Christian/Jewish symbols or names. Religion shouldn't be thought of like a watch that they can take off in the box before going through the metal detector.
Are you saying people can't even say the word god? That wouldn't be able to pray in public? What would be the punishment?

[spursncowboys]

oh so you just want to focus on the ok stuff she said but not the crazy stuff.
Such as?

[ElNono]

I would say unbiased or impartial to religion in general. But not Christian/Jewish symbols or names. Religion shouldn't be thought of like a watch that they can take off in the box before going through the metal detector.
Are you saying people can't even say the word god? That wouldn't be able to pray in public? What would be the punishment?

Why? How does that make sense? You're now picking and choosing. If people want to place such things in the frontdoor of their houses, they're free to do so. There's no place in government for that, unless it's specifically some sort of cultural religious display, in which case it should be open to all religions.

As far as public display, I'm fine with it, as long as it's a personal activity. You want to pray in the park, sure, go ahead.

What I don't want is that person applying their faith into decisions that affect other people. Unfortunately, there's some people that don't understand there's a line there.

[Blake]

Such as?

"When we fail to teach it in the public school, the history of this nation, the God mentioned in our Declaration, the Supreme Being mentioned in the preamble of this constitution of the state,” she continued. “We not only don’t teach it, but we suppress it and refuse to allow it to be taught.”


Bat shit crazy

[spursncowboys]

Why? How does that make sense? You're now picking and choosing. If people want to place such things in the frontdoor of their houses, they're free to do so. There's no place in government for that, unless it's specifically some sort of cultural religious display, in which case it should be open to all religions.

As far as public display, I'm fine with it, as long as it's a personal activity. You want to pray in the park, sure, go ahead.

What I don't want is that person applying their faith into decisions that affect other people. Unfortunately, there's some people that don't understand there's a line there.

I don't think there is a line there. If their god tells them to treat people fair, why would that be worse than a person who thinks a person and a dog came from the same development and have the same destiny?

[Blake]

I don't think there is a line there. If their god tells them to treat people fair, why would that be worse than a person who thinks a person and a dog came from the same development and have the same destiny?

what if their god commands them to discriminate

[spursncowboys]

Why? How does that make sense? You're now picking and choosing. If people want to place such things in the frontdoor of their houses, they're free to do so. There's no place in government for that, unless it's specifically some sort of cultural religious display, in which case it should be open to all religions.

As far as public display, I'm fine with it, as long as it's a personal activity. You want to pray in the park, sure, go ahead.

What I don't want is that person applying their faith into decisions that affect other people. Unfortunately, there's some people that don't understand there's a line there. The picking and choosing I was refering the founding fathers.

[spursncowboys]

what if their god commands them to discriminate What religion and against whom

[spursncowboys]

what if their god commands them to discriminate I know you're trolling but I think that's why christianity is different than all other religions (among lots other things). Why it will expand over time

[Blake]

What religion and against whom

Christians against gays and for Israel for example

[Blake]

I know you're trolling but I think that's why christianity is different than all other religions (among lots other things). Why it will expand over time

You can call it trolling, but it's a legit point.

[spursncowboys]

Christians against gays and for Israel for example Christianity is not against gays as a whole: There are christians who think it's not a sin. There are christian churches who have gays in leadership positions. There are also christians who feel homosexual sex is a sin. Not claiming yourself as gay. I feel most of christians are in the last example. But they aren't against gays. Just that they are going against what they feel god's teachings are. Jesus said for people to be fishes of men, evangelicals. So it's a sense of love, purpose, to want to get others into heaven. Also gay marriage, for alot is about the idea of marriage under god. Not just to keep gays out of something.
IMO, I've always said its a state issue and not a civil rights issue. That's why I feel it's a state issue.
I also think being against gay marriage is completely different from killing someone for believing in a different god.
As far as teaching religion in school-hell no! that's a place where kids have to go, by law. There's no reason why a muslim would have to learn about christianity. Our system is so messed up. On top of that, no one would be happy.
But in a school there should be nothing wrong with a child reading the bible,koran, etc. Nothing wrong with praying. It just shouldn't be mandated. Just mo.

[spursncowboys]

Jesus never said to discriminate. In fact he was the first women's rights/civil rights/lower class advocate.

[boutons_deux]

Jesus never said to discriminate. In fact he was the first women's rights/civil rights/lower class advocate.

and His one dramatic show of anger was at the bankers (moneychangers) who were probably Jews (like Himself). :lol

[ElNono]

I don't think there is a line there. If their god tells them to treat people fair, why would that be worse than a person who thinks a person and a dog came from the same development and have the same destiny?

Of course there's a line there. Because "fair" is a completely subjective term. "Fair" according to whom? You're arguing that people should apply certain philosophy to others, and that in itself is a slippery slope. Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the First Amendment, was fairly explicit about religion being strictly a personal matter. Man & his God.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.

I understand that certain people, probably you included, feel certain... hmmm... "exuberance" with regards to certain faith philosophy, and likely thinks if everyone would follow it this would be a better world.

But I also think history shows that's a naive and mistaken notion. Some people don't want that at all, and once you start hitting them in the head with the bible, things turn to shit.

[spursncowboys]

Of course there's a line there. Because "fair" is a completely subjective term. "Fair" according to whom? You're arguing that people should apply certain philosophy to others, and that in itself is a slippery slope. Thomas Jefferson, who wrote the First Amendment, was fairly explicit about religion being strictly a personal matter. Man & his God.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State.

I understand that certain people, probably you included, feel certain... hmmm... "exuberance" with regards to certain faith philosophy, and likely thinks if everyone would follow it this would be a better world.

But I also think history shows that's a naive and mistaken notion. Some people don't want that at all, and once you start hitting them in the head with the bible, things turn to shit.
So you think he meant no religious people involved in politics? Because that's what I assumed you wanted. Did I read your posts wrong?

exuberance? What the hell are you talking about and why quote it?

I don't think I've ever thought that. As opposed to you thinking that, but the reverse-atheists.

[Seventyniner]

Is the movie anything like this?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_Bible

[ElNono]

So you think he meant no religious people involved in politics? Because that's what I assumed you wanted. Did I read your posts wrong?

That's the wrong assumption. I don't know why it's so hard to understand, but fervent religious people do have a problem understanding it.
I have no problem with people that go to church on sunday, pray before a meal, etc having a government job.

I have a problem with people that make decisions involving others on faith vs facts or science. For example, if statistics say condoms and sexual ed drastically reduces STDs, then I don't want somebody to reduce the funding on that to increase funding on, say, abstinence programs. That's a religion based decision, and that's when religion rears it's ugly head into government.


exuberance? What the hell are you talking about and why quote it?

I don't think I've ever thought that. As opposed to you thinking that, but the reverse-atheists.

Perhaps you're not that kind of person, I apologize, but in my experience there's plenty of religious people that feel they have the moral high ground and won't hesitate to try to impose it.

[Blake]

Christianity is not against gays as a whole

Those Christians accepting of gays are changing the Bible rules.

God very clearly commanded that gays need to die. Paul rebuked them. There's no way around it.

[boutons_deux]

Those Christians accepting of gays are changing the Bible rules.

God very clearly commanded that gays need to die. Paul rebuked them. There's no way around it.

The Bible is a bunch of fairy/morality tales behind the blatant propaganda that it's the Word of God.

[spursncowboys]

That's the wrong assumption. I don't know why it's so hard to understand, but fervent religious people do have a problem understanding it.
I have no problem with people that go to church on sunday, pray before a meal, etc having a government job.

I have a problem with people that make decisions involving others on faith vs facts or science. For example, if statistics say condoms and sexual ed drastically reduces STDs, then I don't want somebody to reduce the funding on that to increase funding on, say, abstinence programs. That's a religion based decision, and that's when religion rears it's ugly head into government.
In your example, there's plenty of reasons included in not wanting to fund(not govt biz, not worth money, money better for something else). Also what if in your example a sex ed reduced std's but at the same rate increase sexual experimentation? A religious person could agree with both views as a christian view. Both could be very big in living a christian way. Two of the biggest christians I met in life never agreed on the role of women in church. One who quite being an infantryman because he stopped believing in violence used scripture to back up why women. The other felt women should be married first. Very respectful to each other. But not very many people can understand this kind of argueing I guess. I also think this view that christians are against science is ridiculous. the times it might happen are few and far in between. It's more a wedge issue I thought intelligent people like you would have figured out. A majority of scientists are religious.



Perhaps you're not that kind of person, I apologize, but in my experience there's plenty of religious people that feel they have the moral high ground and won't hesitate to try to impose it.
So I'm a fervent religious person and now I'm not. Thanks I think. But if you're talking about politicians, then maybe. They are trying to get reelected. Just like the ones who take the moral high ground on gay marriage, affirmative action, poverty, etc. I agree and it annoys me. It gives people the right to mob rule on political issues because they feel they are within the right to be inhumane to people they disagree with

[ElNono]

In your example, there's plenty of reasons included in not wanting to fund(not govt biz, not worth money, money better for something else). Also what if in your example a sex ed reduced std's but at the same rate increase sexual experimentation? A religious person could agree with both views as a christian view. Both could be very big in living a christian way. Two of the biggest christians I met in life never agreed on the role of women in church. One who quite being an infantryman because he stopped believing in violence used scripture to back up why women. The other felt women should be married first. Very respectful to each other. But not very many people can understand this kind of argueing I guess. I also think this view that christians are against science is ridiculous. the times it might happen are few and far in between. It's more a wedge issue I thought intelligent people like you would have figured out. A majority of scientists are religious.

Because "living a christian way" shouldn't enter the decision-making process at all. You're not making decisions for christians, you're making decisions for everybody. If you can't put your faith away in those instances, then I don't want you in a decision-making role. Your faith guiding your personal life is fine with me, your faith guiding other people's lives, well, screw you.

I also don't think generally speaking that christians are against science. But I do think when certain science clashes with their faith, some are willing to prioritize faith, and IMO, that's simply unacceptable.

It's also not just christians, it would bother me just as much if somebody tried to cajole in Sharia law somewhere. Religion needs to stay personal.


So I'm a fervent religious person and now I'm not. Thanks I think. But if you're talking about politicians, then maybe. They are trying to get reelected. Just like the ones who take the moral high ground on gay marriage, affirmative action, poverty, etc. I agree and it annoys me. It gives people the right to mob rule on political issues because they feel they are within the right to be inhumane to people they disagree with

We're talking about religion in government, which intrinsically means politics. What goes on between you and your god, that's fine with me. I respect your right to do that.