Tony needs to run the offense when closing games like this...

[ElNono]

Manu is fine out there to make a gutsy shot, a good assist, or flop on D but going one on one like that, he's just old now...

I know Tony wasn't having a good game, but that's the steady hand we have now... even post up Tim or Kawhi if that's how you wanna go, I can live with that.

Anyways, thought I should bring it up before it gets lost on the win...

[will_spurs]

Give the ball to whoever except Manu. This being said, Harden's bump was as much of a foul as Duncan's block.

[FkLA]

I agree. There was a time where there wasn't another player in the entire league I'd rather have closing...now I just don't trust him. I expect bad things to happen when he has the ball.

Father time is a bitch tbh.

[spurraider21]

kawhi just seemed to dribble and pull up for long jumpers... got bailed out on the last one though and got FT's

[RD2191]

Fuck all that mess. I will always ride or die with Manu.:hat

[RD2191]

kawhi just seemed to dribble and pull up for long jumpers... got bailed out on the last one though and got FT's
wtf does that have to do with this thread?

[Malik Hairston]

Should just run the offense and whoever has the best matchup or is feeling it that night, tbh..

I don't know why they went to Manu ISO, that hasn't been effective in a minute..

[apalisoc_9]

TP has been really good handling the ball in the last 15 games tbh...

[urunobili]

Kawhi bricked 3 J's that should have been better plays not Mav kind of ISO's

[ElNono]

I expect Pop to call a timeout and set up a play in a playoffs setting. But not even a screen? I don't think that's what they wanted, and that shouldn't be what they want.

[spurraider21]

wtf does that have to do with this thread?
i agree that we need somebody to run the offense late. i dont like what we saw when we were just winging it. that included some weird iso/forced attempts

[024]

Nah, Parker was having a bad night too. They should just run their offense normally. I don't know why last 30 seconds = isos when the Spurs were still running their plays a minute ago.

[Clipper Nation]

kawhi just seemed to dribble and pull up for long jumpers... got bailed out on the last one though and got FT's

Kawhi-hating player fans derailing another thread for the sake of their agenda, what else is new?

[ElNono]

In that play, Tony dumped the ball to Gino and went away... didn't like that. But I'm sure Pop will bring it up.

[FkLA]

kawhi just seemed to dribble and pull up for long jumpers... got bailed out on the last one though and got FT's

That's been his money shot though. A bunch he got over Ariza were jumpers too. The only one I had a problem with was when Harden was on him and he settled instead of punishing him.

[RD2191]

i agree that we need somebody to run the offense late. i dont like what we saw when we were just winging it. that included some weird iso/forced attempts
id rather have a kawhi iso than a parker any day of the week. parker brought nothing tonight. absolutely nothing.

[marinoman]

Parker when the other team has a good shot blocker (Houston, Dallas, clips) against those teams I prefer kawhi, everyone else tony

[Malik Hairston]

Best option is to play like the 2015 Spurs and not have any close games, tbh:lol..

[UZER]

Manu is fine out there to make a gutsy shot, a good assist, or flop on D but going one on one like that, he's just old now...

I know Tony wasn't having a good game, but that's the steady hand we have now... even post up Tim or Kawhi if that's how you wanna go, I can live with that.

Anyways, thought I should bring it up before it gets lost on the win...

Gets lost? Youre just saying what people have been saying for the last two years. Stop letting Manu iso at the end of games. He's a turnover machine. Let him takke the big shot off a pass, but don't let him wind the clock down.

[spurraider21]

That's been his money shot though. A bunch he got over Ariza were jumpers too. The only one I had a problem with was when Harden was on him and he settled instead of punishing him.
it has been his money shot, but usually off the post, or some jab steps from a triple threat... not when he just clears out from the 3 point line, dribbles and pulls up. thats what westbrick does too much too

[freetiago]

Leonard has terrible footwork, he doesn't know how to drive in a half court setting since he always takes huge clunky steps. Him and Boris are still the 2 best options to run plays through at the end of games. Green should still be in instead of Manu also

[ElNono]

Gets lost? Youre just saying what people have been saying for the last two years. Stop letting Manu iso at the end of games. He's a turnover machine. Let him takke the big shot off a pass, but don't let him wind the clock down.

IIRC, the last time Gino went ISO on a last play like that was against Dallas in Game 3 of last playoffs... and he made the basket.

But the Spurs had timeouts this game, at this point they should be able to draw a better play.

[RD2191]

it has been his money shot, but usually off the post, or some jab steps from a triple threat... not when he just clears out from the 3 point line, dribbles and pulls up. thats what westbrick does too much too
i seriously hope you're trolling right now. Kawhi gets a free pass for chucking. Porker was 1-7 and you're talking about kawhi. Unbelievable.

[marinoman]

I will say the Parker diaw pick and Pop prolly is my favorite play

[TheGreatYacht]

That Parker pass to Tim was beautiful. Duncan missed it, but still... Right decision

[benstanfield]

If they elect not to foul with a ~4 second differential between shot and game clock, you should dribble for 23 seconds and heave up a high arcing half court three, preferably bouncing off the rim. This is really just simple math.

The NBA is so weird.

[FkLA]

it has been his money shot, but usually off the post, or some jab steps from a triple threat... not when he just clears out from the 3 point line, dribbles and pulls up. thats what westbrick does too much too

I remember the one where he was fouled and the one where Ariza defleced the ball into the backcourt. The other jumpers were from the post IIRC. They really shouldn't iso him up top like that though...either post him up or set some screens for him to get a good look from midrange imo.

[Nathan89]

Manu or Kawhi.

[cd021]

I will say the Parker diaw pick and Pop prolly is my favorite play

I prefer Parker/Manu Duncan p&R with Diaw in the right corner 3. If they can get to the rim the can force Diaws man into the paint leaving Diaw open in the corner. That Memphis 3OT game, Diaw hit a couple of those late with Randolph sagging off of him

[littlecoyotecoin]

Fuck all that mess. I will always ride or die with Manu.:hat

Word.

[UZER]

IIRC, the last time Gino went ISO on a last play like that was against Dallas in Game 3 of last playoffs... and he made the basket.

But the Spurs had timeouts this game, at this point they should be able to draw a better play.

I'm talking last plays of qtrs, halfs, games. It's been happening for two years. He makes a bad play ing those situations more times than not now.

I called the turnover as soon as he isolated tonight at the end. It's too easy now. He's like Romo now. :lol

[Nathan89]

Only thing Tony would get us is a step back mid-range jumpshot. Sure bad things can happen with the ball in manu's hands but he'll be able to make things happen in a multitude of ways more often than tony.

[ElNono]

I'm talking last plays of qtrs, halfs, games. It's been happening for two years. He makes a bad play ing those situations more times than not now.

I called the turnover as soon as he isolated tonight at the end. It's too easy now. He's like Romo now. :lol

:lol last plays of first 3 quarters don't mean shit. I'm talking closing out games, which is something he's not been doing at all lately, and rightly so. He's not 32 years old anymore.

It's either him or Tony though, the only two guys that can handle the rock consistently. But it can't be ISO, it has to be at least screened.

[ElNono]

My point is that it can't be an ISO. It just can't be one on one... I trust Tony to make a play too, and at least Tony has the speed if you need to ISO out...

[313]

Best option is to play like the 2015 Spurs and not have any close games, tbh:lol..

[UZER]

:lol last plays of first 3 quarters don't mean shit. I'm talking closing out games, which is something he's not been doing at all lately, and rightly so. He's not 32 years old anymore.

It's either him or Tony though, the only two guys that can handle the rock consistently. But it can't be ISO, it has to be at least screened.

I didn't say they did. My point is if he turns it over at the end of the first, at the end of the half, at the end of the 3rd, what the hell do you think is gonna happen at the end of the 4th?

At this point, Tony needs to have the rock at the end. As much as he disappears in games, he is still very clutch late in games.

[Clipper Nation]

Why would anyone want a cancerous choker like Enrique to close out games? Especially when having point guards closing out games just ends up stagnating the whole offense when opposing teams put bigger defenders on them.

[AFBlue]

Agree with OP

[Sean Cagney]

Fuck all that mess. I will always ride or die with Manu.:hat

I would normally too but usually nowadays he will turn it over TBH. The old Manu yes, the one right now not so sure as he seems to just dribble and bumble the ball out of bounds or turn it over. I miss the one who hit the shot or drew the foul to hit FT's.

[ElNono]

I didn't say they did. My point is if he turns it over at the end of the first, at the end of the half, at the end of the 3rd, what the hell do you think is gonna happen at the end of the 4th?

At this point, Tony needs to have the rock at the end. As much as he disappears in games, he is still very clutch late in games.

It's just isn't true though. Manu's is averaging pretty much the same amount of turnovers this season he's averaged his entire career (2.2/game, career 2.1/game).

What is true is that he can't take guys one on one anymore and finish at the rim like he used to, that's why I'm in agreement that Tony has more weapons right now than a 38 years old.

If you want Manu to handle the rock, you gotta put some screens and he need to make a play for somebody else.

Manu should still be on the floor, he has a knack for the big shot or play, it's one of the few guys that can still get to the rim and get fouled and he can still play D.

[ElNono]

Manu himself was saying it on the interview from last week that he doesn't get to close games anymore, and he's fine with that. He's fully aware he can't do what he used to do.

Which is why I don't get the Pop going with it. He had a timeout, and there were still 6 secs left after the 24 secs clock.

[beirmeistr]

Fuck all that mess. I will always ride or die with Manu.:hat

if you are serious, me too

[RD2191]

if you are serious, me too
I am serious. He's still the most offensively talented player we have. Kawhi can score but Manu has an arsenal of moves.

[UZER]

It's just isn't true though. Manu's is averaging pretty much the same amount of turnovers this season he's averaged his entire career (2.2/game, career 2.1/game).

What is true is that he can't take guys one on one anymore and finish at the rim like he used to, that's why I'm in agreement that Tony has more weapons right now than a 38 years old.

If you want Manu to handle the rock, you gotta put some screens and he need to make a play for somebody else.

Manu should still be on the floor, he has a knack for the big shot or play, it's one of the few guys that can still get to the rim and get fouled and he can still play D.

It is true. if he's averaging the same turnovers while playing less minutes and handling the ball less, that means he's turning it over more than ever.

[ElNono]

It is true. if he's averaging the same turnovers while playing less minutes and handling the ball less, that means he's turning it over more than ever.

No it isn't. He's averaging the same 23 mpg he's been averaging the past 3 seasons. Heck, in his prime, when he played more minutes he averaged more turnovers (2.7 per game in 2007/2008). He just had more game back then, so people didn't stress about it.

Since 2013 people have been overreacting greatly over his turnovers (perhaps rightly so, tbh), but he's always turned the ball over at about the same rate.

[SASdynasty!]

id rather have a kawhi iso than a parker any day of the week. parker brought nothing tonight. absolutely nothing.
And the last game his 27 points were all at the wrong time so man let's just trade this guy right Rob?

[SASdynasty!]

i seriously hope you're trolling right now. Kawhi gets a free pass for chucking. Porker was 1-7 and you're talking about kawhi. Unbelievable.
Hey genius, you said Tony was chucking on Wednesday when he went 13/18. Your usage of words means nothing anymore.

[SASdynasty!]

That Parker pass to Tim was beautiful. Duncan missed it, but still... Right decision
That should have sealed the game.

[ElNono]

That should have sealed the game.

''It was a good opportunity for me to get redemption at the end,'' Duncan said, noting his missed layup that would have put it away earlier.

[SASdynasty!]

I'm talking last plays of qtrs, halfs, games. It's been happening for two years. He makes a bad play ing those situations more times than not now.

I called the turnover as soon as he isolated tonight at the end. It's too easy now. He's like Romo now. :lol
Probably not the best comparison. You don't get the highest QBR in the league if you turn the ball over a lot.

[ducks]

Hate ISO ball

[SASdynasty!]

Why would anyone want a cancerous choker like Enrique to close out games? Especially when having point guards closing out games just ends up stagnating the whole offense when opposing teams put bigger defenders on them.
Lol, so mad. You cannot stand Spurs winning brand of basketball. I'm sorry bro, seriously.

[Wildcat67]

Kawhi bricked 3 J's that should have been better plays not Mav kind of ISO's

One was with the shot clock running down, another he completely shook his man and had about 6-8ft of space.

[SASdynasty!]

Manu himself was saying it on the interview from last week that he doesn't get to close games anymore, and he's fine with that. He's fully aware he can't do what he used to do.

Which is why I don't get the Pop going with it. He had a timeout, and there were still 6 secs left after the 24 secs clock.
It's weird...that's the same thing Pop did at the end of overtime in G6 against Miami. We had the ball off the Wade miss...down 1 with like 10 seconds to go. Perfect amount of time for Pop to call a timeout and run a set play with movement and screens, but he just let Manu go iso with it and he didn't even get a shot up.

[ElNono]

It's weird...that's the same thing Pop did at the end of overtime in G6 against Miami. We had the ball off the Wade miss...down 1 with like 10 seconds to go. Perfect amount of time for Pop to call a timeout and run a set play with movement and screens, but he just let Manu go iso with it and he didn't even get a shot up.

I just think Pop has infinite trust in Gino... but he's going to be 38 soon, tbh... I have no problem with Tony running the show at that point...

[UZER]

Probably not the best comparison. You don't get the highest QBR in the league if you turn the ball over a lot.

:lol The guy has one good season and all is forgetten.

[pgardn]

Why would anyone want a cancerous choker like Enrique to close out games? Especially when having point guards closing out games just ends up stagnating the whole offense when opposing teams put bigger defenders on them.

So who do you want with the ball at mid court to close out a game?

[beirmeistr]

Only thing Tony would get us is a step back mid-range jumpshot. Sure bad things can happen with the ball in manu's hands but he'll be able to make things happen in a multitude of ways more often than tony.

true, because , unlike Manu, does not drive for the basket if it means getting battered.

[UZER]

No it isn't. He's averaging the same 23 mpg he's been averaging the past 3 seasons. Heck, in his prime, when he played more minutes he averaged more turnovers (2.7 per game in 2007/2008). He just had more game back then, so people didn't stress about it.

Since 2013 people have been overreacting greatly over his turnovers (perhaps rightly so, tbh), but he's always turned the ball over at about the same rate.

Overreaching but rightly so? What does that mean?

People didn't stress about it because he did so many other thing to make up for it. Now those turnovers have way more impact. Tonight was a perfect example.

[ElNono]

Overreaching but rightly so? What does that mean?

People didn't stress about it because he did so many other thing to make up for it. Now those turnovers have way more impact. Tonight was a perfect example.

Because 2013 clearly left a psychological mark on fans, Manu now turns it over and it's "he's turning it over all the time!". I understand the reaction (thus why I said rightly so), but rationally looking at the numbers don't bear it out. That was an outlier, a costly one, but an outlier nonetheless.

He's still doing a lot of other good things. He actually had a very solid game both tonight and the last game, but I can bet you $100 if we lose this game all people would remember is that turnover. Which is fine, people tend to remember the high stakes, not when we were down 12 or so in the 1st quarter and his unit brought us back into the game.

[beirmeistr]

Because 2013 clearly left a psychological mark on fans, Manu now turns it over and it's "he's turning it over all the time!". I understand the reaction (thus why I said rightly so), but rationally looking at the numbers don't bear it out. That was an outlier, a costly one, but an outlier nonetheless.

He's still doing a lot of other good things. He actually had a very solid game both tonight and the last game, but I can bet you $100 if we lose this game all people would remember is that turnover. Which is fine, people tend to remember the high stakes, not when we were down 12 or so in the 1st quarter and his unit brought us back into the game.
tony has more career turnovers than Manu by several hundred

[UZER]

Because 2013 clearly left a psychological mark on fans, Manu now turns it over and it's "he's turning it over all the time!". I understand the reaction (thus why I said rightly so), but rationally looking at the numbers don't bear it out. That was an outlier, a costly one, but an outlier nonetheless.

He's still doing a lot of other good things. He actually had a very solid game both tonight and the last game, but I can bet you $100 if we lose this game all people would remember is that turnover. Which is fine, people tend to remember the high stakes, not when we were down 12 or so in the 1st quarter and his unit brought us back into the game.


Round and round.

Anyway, welcome to the Manu shouldn't have the ball closing games club. Still my favorite spur ever.

[ElNono]

tony has more career turnovers than Manu by several hundred

He has more years in the league though, IIRC.

Manu has always been "turnover prone" to put it in a way (he's also always assisted way more than turned it over, he's been the 2nd top assist guy in this team for many seasons now).

Obviously, he's not 20ppg now, so people focus on those things. And that's fine too, he's obviously not in his prime anymore, you can't put him on a ISO with the game on the line right now.

[ElNono]

Round and round.

Anyway, welcome to the Manu shouldn't have the ball closing games club. Still my favorite spur ever.

:lol I love Gino, and I understand some fans' feeling around here, but I agree he shouldn't be ISO'ing to close games anymore. At least draw a play, give him a screen for a pass to the corner or something.

Completely agree on that, thus this thread.

[pgardn]

He has always been willing to be blamed and blame himself.
Giveth and taketh away comes at a price, people hate or love you game to game.
I believe the guy is harder on himself than any fan. He is hyper competitive and his personality of talking things through in the huddle, and questioning Pop about specifics is a huge + for the team. He is quite simply a leader willing to fck up.

[ElNono]

+14 tonight, best in the team, out assisted and out scored Tony, on a night Tony just didn't have it going. Would've been a shame if all we remembered about that game was the turnover. That's why I don't get Pop not calling a timeout and setting a play.

[SASdynasty!]

tony has more career turnovers than Manu by several hundred
Tony Parker
RS Minutes played: 32,549
RS Turnovers: 2,498
RS Turnovers/MP: 7.67%
PO Minutes played: 7,006
PO Turnovers: 549
PO Turnovers/MP: 7.84%

Manu Ginobili
RS Minutes played: 23,075
RS Turnovers: 1,809
RS Turnovers/MP: 7.84%
PO Minutes played: 5,361
PO Turnovers: 441
PO Turnovers/MP: 8.23%

So Tony turns it over less than Manu any way you look at it AND he's been the main ball-handler his whole career.

[RD2191]

+14 tonight, best in the team, out assisted and out scored Tony, on a night Tony just didn't have it going. Would've been a shame if all we remembered about that game was the turnover. That's why I don't get Pop not calling a timeout and setting a play.
Real spurs fans wouldn't of blamed him. Just like I won't Blame Kawhi for 6. I can't excuse a shit game though so you bet your ass I would of blamed Parker.:lol

[ElNono]

Tony Parker
RS Minutes played: 32,549
RS Turnovers: 2,498
RS Turnovers/MP: 7.67%
PO Minutes played: 7,006
PO Turnovers: 549
PO Turnovers/MP: 7.84%

Manu Ginobili
RS Minutes played: 23,075
RS Turnovers: 1,809
RS Turnovers/MP: 7.84%
PO Minutes played: 5,361
PO Turnovers: 441
PO Turnovers/MP: 8.23%

So Tony turns it over less than Manu any way you look at it AND he's been the main ball-handler his whole career.

Wow, didn't know they were so close on a per minute basis. You get the idea from some of the posts here Gino is a turnover machine... that's actually pretty impressive. Thanks for posting that.

[SASdynasty!]

:lol The guy has one good season and all is forgetten.
Lol, he has the 2nd highest QBR in NFL history:

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Tony Romo
3. Peyton Manning
4. Steve Young
5. Tom Brady

[SASdynasty!]

Wow, didn't know they were so close on a per minute basis. You get the idea from some of the posts here Gino is a turnover machine... that's actually pretty impressive. Thanks for posting that.
I agree, but he's had the ball in his hands for way more of those minutes (percentage-wise) as a PG his whole career than Manu has as a SG.

[ElNono]

I agree, but he's had the ball in his hands for way more of those minutes (percentage-wise) as a PG his whole career than Manu has as a SG.

Yeah, he played at least a couple more seasons, IIRC.

[ElNono]

Still pretty impressive than whatever the amount of minutes, they both turned the ball over about the same on a per minute basis. Wonder how that compares to other players in the league.

[ElNono]

This is an area where I see Harden having a problem with later in his career... he's a turnover machine, worse than Gino at 38 years old on a per 36 basis... once he stops scoring his 20+ ppg, he's gonna need to do a lot of adapting...