What would another Finals loss?

[RD2191]

Do to Lebrons legacy? Especially at the hands of the Spurs? No way you can put him in the top 10, imo.

[Drachen]

I would think that he would get the Hakeem treatment. "Fantastic player, very dominant, could only get it done without Tim Duncan around". I know it's not a perfect analogy..

[AlexJones]

Guess it'd just lead more retards into believing finals W/L is a good stat to measure how valuable a player is.

[jag]

Guess it'd just lead more retards into believing finals W/L is a good stat to measure how valuable a player is.

True...that whole "winning" thing is quite overrated.

Unless of course you're winning.

[Raven]

not much, because none with a brain, expects him to make kevin fukin love and kyrie fukin irving into meaningful players.

[StrengthAndHonor]

OP, haven't you heard? Final losses are irrelevant. Getting there is all that matters.


Plus, he has ZERO help throughout his entire career. You can't put this on poor Lebron.

[AlexJones]

^Special needs post of the day

[RD2191]

OP, haven't you heard? Final losses are irrelevant. Getting there is all that matters.


Plus, he has ZERO help throughout his entire career. You can't put this on poor Lebron.
:lol

[Thread]

YOU had your chance to set him in perpetual questionable state, but, you fucked up. He's assured now. "We" don't get to tease & torment him now. It's out of "our" control.

You.

[ambchang]

An athletic and better Karl Malone.

Physical specimen, needs crazy help to get there twice (winning for Lebron, making the finals as the lead guy for Karl), disappointing in the winning category, great individual stats, choker.

Only difference is karl is/was a pedophile and he was less successful.

So I guess a more successful, more fortunate Karl Malone without the awkward sex life would be his legacy.

[RD2191]

An athletic and better Karl Malone.

Physical specimen, needs crazy help to get there twice (winning for Lebron, making the finals as the lead guy for Karl), disappointing in the winning category, great individual stats, choker.

Only difference is karl is/was a pedophile and he was less successful.

So I guess a more successful, more fortunate Karl Malone without the awkward sex life would be his legacy.
:lmaoThis is more like it.

[Infinite_limit]

Depends who you ask. Fans that watched Pre 2000 NBA will judge him harshly

Youngsters will credit taking Cleveland back to Finals and how much better he is than Wade (who they overrate)

5 straight Finals is very impressive and it still puts him above Oscar Robertson. But I think it spreads the gap between him and Kobe in a negative way

[Thread]

An athletic and better Karl Malone.

Physical specimen, needs crazy help to get there twice (winning for Lebron, making the finals as the lead guy for Karl), disappointing in the winning category, great individual stats, choker.

Only difference is karl is/was a pedophile and he was less successful.

So I guess a more successful, more fortunate Karl Malone without the awkward sex life would be his legacy.

Boiled down:::if not for Amy, a one & doner.

That age old bromide remains true:::$

[RD2191]

Depends who you ask. Fans that watched Pre 2000 NBA will judge him harshly

Youngsters will credit taking Cleveland back to Finals and how much better he is than Wade (who they overrate)

5 straight Finals is very impressive and it still puts him above Oscar Robertson. But I think it spreads the gap between him and Kobe in a negative way
I just don't find any of his Finals runs all that impressive. Maybe his 07 run but that's it. He would of had 1 title if Kawhi doesn't brick a free throw proceeded by his brick and the ensuing Ray Allen 3. Getting to the Finals out East has been a cakewalk. They pretty much get 2 round byes.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Also, it's how the players perform at this biggest stage. We gave Lebron a pass in 2007 (?) and gave him full credit for dragging a lottery team in the Finals. But he had a massive choke job in 2011 against Dallas. He was less than stellar in 2013, shooting 30% twice and 40% 4x times in 7 games. He started strong in 2014 but was outplayed by Kawhi Leonard in crucial games 3 and 5.



It's one thing if he actually raised the bar or maintained his efficiency in the Finals.

[cd021]

"Peyton Manning of the NBA"

a bit unfair but that would be what he'd be compared to.

The first Finals, the Cavs had no business of being in it People forget that he carried them there over a better Pistons team.

He choked vs the Mavs

He almost lost the '13 Finals. He definitely struggled for most of the series. Partly due to a gimicky defensive scheme (Spurs going way under on screens, allowing him open mid range jumpers but taking away shots in the paint)

Had Cramps in Game 1 but ,overall, played well in last years finals

[Infinite_limit]

I just don't find any of his Finals runs all that impressive. Maybe his 07 run but that's it. He would of had 1 title if Kawhi doesn't brick a free throw proceeded by his brick and the ensuing Ray Allen 3. Getting to the Finals out East has been a cakewalk. They pretty much get 2 round byes.
But if you have only been watching the NBA since 2005, then you don't realize the East is a cake walk. You just assume James is that dominant

If the Thunder implode (Durant and/or Westbrook leaves) then that Finals win will also decrease in significance.

[Cry Havoc]

I just don't find any of his Finals runs all that impressive. Maybe his 07 run but that's it. He would of had 1 title if Kawhi doesn't brick a free throw proceeded by his brick and the ensuing Ray Allen 3. Getting to the Finals out East has been a cakewalk. They pretty much get 2 round byes.

But that's the case with almost every team. Kobe and Shaq needed the refs to beat Sactown and an Horry 3. They also needed Fisher's .4 shot to even get there. Hell even Michael Jordan needed help at some point. Without Kerr bombing away he might be sitting on 5.

You can literally go down the line and see where almost every team has lived and died on a single shot at some point in the playoffs.

Last year's Spurs are an exception, because when they won they absolutely blew out teams except game 6 against OKC. But they would have won game 7 at home, so it's not a real "clutch" game for the Spurs.

[Clipper Nation]

"Peyton Manning of the NBA"

a bit unfair but that would be what he'd be compared to.

The first Finals, the Cavs had no business of being in it People forget that he carried them there over a better Pistons team.

He choked vs the Mavs

He almost lost the '13 Finals. He definitely struggled for most of the series. Partly due to a gimicky defensive scheme (Spurs going way under on screens, allowing him open mid range jumpers but taking away shots in the paint)

Had Cramps in Game 1 but ,overall, played well in last years finals

Horrible comparison. Fivehead has gone one-and-done nine times, LeBron has never lost in the first round. Fivehead was dragged kicking and screaming to his only ring by his defense, LeBron has two alpha rings and counting. Fivehead has always had stacked teams, LeBron's never had any help.

[RD2191]

But that's the case with almost every team. Kobe and Shaq needed the refs to beat Sactown and an Horry 3. They also needed Fisher's .4 shot to even get there. Hell even Michael Jordan needed help at some point. Without Kerr bombing away he might be sitting on 5.

You can literally go down the line and see where almost every team has lived and died on a single shot at some point in the playoffs.

Last year's Spurs are an exception, because when they won they absolutely blew out teams except game 6 against OKC. But they would have won game 7 at home, so it's not a real "clutch" game for the Spurs.
I understand. I just think making the Finals out East is not impressive. They play teams with losing records in the 1st round for christs sakes. Can you imagine if he had to face the competition out West for 3 rounds?

[100%duncan]

Never had any help :lol

[daslicer]

But that's the case with almost every team. Kobe and Shaq needed the refs to beat Sactown and an Horry 3. They also needed Fisher's .4 shot to even get there. Hell even Michael Jordan needed help at some point. Without Kerr bombing away he might be sitting on 5.

You can literally go down the line and see where almost every team has lived and died on a single shot at some point in the playoffs.

Last year's Spurs are an exception, because when they won they absolutely blew out teams except game 6 against OKC. But they would have won game 7 at home, so it's not a real "clutch" game for the Spurs.

I disagree even the Spurs needed Diaw to hit that 3 to win game 4 against the Mavs. I'm convinced if he didn't hit that shot the Spurs would have gone down 3-1 and lost that series.

[Thread]

Never had any help :lol

Amy Duncan helped him, eh?

tee, hee.

[Killakobe81]

OP, haven't you heard? Final losses are irrelevant. Getting there is all that matters.


Plus, he has ZERO help throughout his entire career. You can't put this on poor Lebron.

Nope. This is the world we live in (at least on Spurstalk) winning doesnt matter as much (unless you win) and Lebron shouldnt be able to win with two all-stars at his side ...

BTW, if Lebron first fans want an excuse if they lose how about a coach with no freaking NBA experience? Why act like the Cavs dont have talent?

[HI-FI]

Never had any help :lol
:lol
CN is hilarious when delusional.

Even if Lebron loses I'd still take him over Rapist, but both are overrated compared to Duncan.

[313]

Horrible comparison. Fivehead has gone one-and-done nine times, LeBron has never lost in the first round. Fivehead was dragged kicking and screaming to his only ring by his defense, LeBron has two alpha rings and counting. Fivehead has always had stacked teams, LeBron's never had any help.

:lol

[DAF86]

Where does this retarded concept that losing before getting to the finals > losing in the finals come from? :lol

[resistanze]

Where does this retarded concept that losing before getting to the finals > losing in the finals? :lol

Don't know. Isn't this question still applicable if LeBron's team loses in the ECSF? Why so specific to the Finals?

[313]

Where does this retarded concept that losing before getting to the finals > losing in the finals come from? :lol

I think it's about getting to the largest stage and not getting the job done. Not saying I agree with the logic, but it's not like Bron faced much tough opposition in the East except 07.

[Malik Hairston]

It would be pretty amazing if he took this shitty Cavs team to the Finals, tbh..they aren't built like a championship team, they shouldn't be expected to win the title, the only reason they are is because Lebron is on the team..

Especially when you look at the Heat, even without Bosh, being so bad with Wade/Dragic/Whiteside/Deng in a conference where the 6-10 seeds areso awful..

[Malik Hairston]

Sports fans are pretty simple people, though..they generally ignore circumstances and variables, only focusing on the end result..

[Malik Hairston]

Lebron is the Peyton Manning of the NBA, though, I agree with that, although not for the stupid "Finals record" reason..Lebron has been a much better player in his sport than Manning was in the NFL, especially in the playoffs..2009 to 2013 Lebron is probably the best player I have ever seen, tbh..

He's the Manning in the sense that he needs to control everything, whether it's running all the plays, handling the ball, etc..

[Raven]

Lebron is the Peyton Manning of the NBA, though, I agree with that, although not for the stupid "Finals record" reason..Lebron has been a much better player in his sport than Manning was in the NFL, especially in the playoffs..2009 to 2013 Lebron is probably the best player I have ever seen, tbh..

He's the Manning in the sense that he needs to control everything, whether it's running all the plays, handling the ball, etc..

true. I think he has trust issues due to prolonged exposure to bad practices in cleveland.

[CitizenDwayne]

It would be pretty amazing if he took this shitty Cavs team to the Finals, tbh..they aren't built like a championship team, they shouldn't be expected to win the title, the only reason they are is because Lebron is on the team..

Especially when you look at the Heat, even without Bosh, being so bad with Wade/Dragic/Whiteside/Deng in a conference where the 6-10 seeds areso awful..

No it wouldn't, look at how bad the Eastern Conference is.

[Thread]

Sports fans are pretty simple people, though..they generally ignore circumstances and variables, only focusing on the end result..

Hell, you didn't even keep count till I lit.

[daslicer]

His legacy would be similar to Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt was viewed as a freak of nature due to his physical build and I think Lebron is viewed the same way in the sense because he's the biggest guy at his position that he should easily win the title every year. Wilt put up ridiculous stats and Lebron does the same. Wilt had 2 titles and Lebron has 2 but they were both expected to win more. I think people never be satisfied with how many titles Lebron wins they will always have ridiculous expectations. He's pretty much the Wilt of this era.

[Thread]

His legacy would be similar to Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt was viewed as a freak of nature due to his physical build and I think Lebron is viewed the same way in the sense because he's the biggest guy at his position that he should easily win the title every year. Wilt put up ridiculous stats and Lebron does the same. Wilt had 2 titles and Lebron has 2 but they were both expected to win more. I think people never be satisfied with how many titles Lebron wins they will always have ridiculous expectations. He's pretty much the Wilt of this era.

If Amy & Tim were still hitched you'd have a point & 6.

[Malik Hairston]

No it wouldn't, look at how bad the Eastern Conference is.

There are only 2-3 contenders per conference in each season, the rest of the teams are largely irrelevant, tbh..

The Hawks would be the 4th best team in the West IMO, they are a viable challenger...

[cd021]

Horrible comparison. Fivehead has gone one-and-done nine times, LeBron has never lost in the first round. Fivehead was dragged kicking and screaming to his only ring by his defense, LeBron has two alpha rings and counting. Fivehead has always had stacked teams, LeBron's never had any help.

It would happen, if he loses again. Not apple to apples of course but in terms of talent and individual accolades him not winning a champion ship. Obviously going 1-2 in the Super Bowl is better than going 2-5 (or 2-6 including the hypothetical).

The Lebron has never had any help is a little silly. The Cavs teams were always overrated ( the last two or three seasons at least of his first run) that 1st Heat team was actually pretty good. Good defensively and had A prime Wade.

They had no PG and a legit big. The second year the league became small ball heavy and the Heat figured out that they could play Lebron at the 4 and Bosh at the 5 and slaughter teams. Year 3 they began using PG-Less lineups for pace and space.

Playing in the trashy East is like having another all-star on your team anyway.

[100%duncan]

Amy Duncan helped him, eh?

tee, hee.

Without Amy Im light 4 period

[CitizenDwayne]

There are only 2-3 contenders per conference in each season, the rest of the teams are largely irrelevant, tbh..

The Hawks would be the 4th best team in the West IMO, they are a viable challenger...

Sure they are a challenger, but I don't believe you can honestly say you would be amazed if the Cavs ended up in the finals.

[Thread]

^Unless they bring Amy with 'em again they might as well stay in Ohio.

[RD2191]

It would happen, if he loses again. Not apple to apples of course but in terms of talent and individual accolades him not winning a champion ship. Obviously going 1-2 in the Super Bowl is better than going 2-5 (or 2-6 including the hypothetical).

The Lebron has never had any help is a little silly. The Cavs teams were always overrated ( the last two or three seasons at least of his first run) that 1st Heat team was actually pretty good. Good defensively and had A prime Wade.

They had no PG and a legit big. The second year the league became small ball heavy and the Heat figured out that they could play Lebron at the 4 and Bosh at the 5 and slaughter teams. Year 3 they began using PG-Less lineups for pace and space.

Playing in the trashy East is like having another all-star on your team anyway.
cd going hard in the paint, imo

[resistanze]

Obviously going 1-2 in the Super Bowl is better than going 2-5 (or 2-6 including the hypothetical).


Why?

[Venti Quattro]

Would be worse than when he first find out that Delonte was in bed with his momma Gloria.

[cd021]

Why?

I guess its how you view it. Getting to the championship round 5 times is impressive (especially before the age of 30). Actually I stand corrected that's the better between the two.

[Jenks]

He'll drop to Kobe tier

[RD2191]

He'll drop to Kobe tier
:lol

[Clipper Nation]

He'll drop to Kobe tier

He could blow out both his Achilles tomorrow, end up like Grant Hill, and still never suck badly enough to plummet anywhere near Kirby's level.

[apalisoc_9]

would be funny he loses again to the spurs and kawhi wins another FMVP.

History is going to know him as Kawhi's Son...

[RD2191]

would be funny he loses again to the spurs and kawhi wins another FMVP.

History is going to know him as Kawhi's Son...
That would be epic. Tbh.

[Strange Love]

LOL Cavs dont want any of the Spurs at the other end.

If Spurs somehow go on to the finals we 6.

[Thread]

LOL Cavs dont want any of the Spurs at the other end.

If Spurs somehow go on to the finals we 6.

You already got 6. It occurred on your 1st 5th.

[DMC]

YOU had your chance to set him in perpetual questionable state, but, you fucked up. He's assured now. "We" don't get to tease & torment him now. It's out of "our" control.

You.
You had yours as well before the Thunder give him his 1st. You've no room, don't bitch about what other people didn't do when you were at the gate first.

[Thread]

You had yours as well before the Thunder give him his 1st. You've no room, don't bitch about what other people didn't do when you were at the gate first.

:rolleyes

[DMC]

:rolleyes
That's not an answer. Act like a grown ass man. You had how many years to beat him and your team laid down on the birthday of Christ our Lord on national fucking television Dale, your team.. at home no less, booed off the goddamn floor like peasants.

[Thread]

That's not an answer. Act like a grown ass man. You had how many years to beat him and your team laid down on the birthday of Christ our Lord on national fucking television Dale, your team.. at home no less, booed off the goddamn floor like peasants.

:rolleyes

[DMC]

:rolleyes
Yeah you keep that sour puss on your shoulders Dale. You know that stick is firmly up YOUR ass, not ours. We sent him packing back from whence he came, else you'd never hear the end of it. You should be clipping cigars and boxing up cases of scotch for all of us.

[Thread]

Yeah you keep that sour puss on your shoulders Dale. You know that stick is firmly up YOUR ass, not ours. We sent him packing back from whence he came

Then had to call him back to give him your 1st 5th. It was at that exact point where he got straightened out ever more. I know this because Cowherd reminds me twice a week, every week.

Your regrets are your own.

[100%duncan]

would be funny he loses again to the spurs and kawhi wins another FMVP.

History is going to know him as Kawhi's Son...

[DMC]

Then had to call him back to give him your 1st 5th. It was at that exact point where he got straightened out ever more. I know this because Cowherd reminds me twice a week, every week.

Your regrets are your own.

You can certainly tell who here has the regrets by the number of times the subject is revisited.

[Thread]

You can certainly tell who here has the regrets by the number of times the subject is revisited.

He was stuck at 1.........till Amy.

[MultiTroll]

LeBron haters,
All 4 of his Finals teams weren't going to do squat without him.
STFU.

It is sad seeing him morph into a pussy. Saying his only NBA best friends are MarshMello Anthony, CPFlop and i cant recall the other two pusses.

[Thread]

...nobody trumps his bestest friend:::Amy Duncan.

[LkrFan]

Horrible comparison. Fivehead has gone one-and-done nine times, LeBron has never lost in the first round. Fivehead was dragged kicking and screaming to his only ring by his defense, LeBron has two alpha rings and counting. Fivehead has always had stacked teams, LeBron's never had any help.BAAAAHAHAHAHAHA! :rollin :lmao :rollin

[heyheymymy]

"What would another Finals loss do to Lebrons legacy?"

Nothing the Finals losses he's already notched haven't done