Time to move beyond best PF of all time.

[Horse]

He's more than that and if he gets 6 and finally goes back to back I'd put him up against anyone. Consider the market, he does it in both sides of the ball he's been clutch always improves in the playoffs and the age he's doing it is amazing!!!

[SpurAddict561]

I've been thinking the same recently, as well.

6 titles puts him in the talk of GOAT, period.

No player has had the level of success Duncan has had ALREADY. Never missed the playoffs and never under 50 wins (aside from lockout season).

Sustained superior performance.... 6 titles will definitely put him as BEST BIG MAN EVER, at a minimum. What other player would be able to record double doubles against the "elite" centers in today's game other than Timmy?

[TXstbobcat]

I think at this point Tm is one of the 5 greatest players of all time. Winning a sixth title should put him up there with Jordan and Bill Russell.

[Big Empty]

win a 6th or not i hope he comes back for another year. Hes still playing at a high level and can continue to move up the ranks statistically.

[K...]

It actually won't move him much. People will remember this as kawhi's team or Parkers team. To compare, think about Kobe. His 5 titles are discounted because of role player status.

It will however help Pop. And it makes Duncan more memorable as an all time great to mention that he won well past his 30th birthday. But it won't move him past anyone he currently isn't already ahead of.

[Horse]

It actually won't move him much. People will remember this as kawhi's team or Parkers team. To compare, think about Kobe. His 5 titles are discounted because of role player status.

It will however help Pop. And it makes Duncan more memorable as an all time great to mention that he won well past his 30th birthday. But it won't move him past anyone he currently isn't already ahead of.
But to this day when we need him he takes over. Against Houston danny and tony were MIA so he goes for 29 against that front line. You could've given him FMVP ;ast year and without 6 he certainly would've been in '13. At his age it's unheard of.

[SpursFan86]

If he wins a 6th title while playing at this level all playoffs, it gives him an argument for top 3 IMO. He's already solidified his place top 5.

[Malik Hairston]

It actually won't move him much. People will remember this as kawhi's team or Parkers team. To compare, think about Kobe. His 5 titles are discounted because of role player status.

It will however help Pop. And it makes Duncan more memorable as an all time great to mention that he won well past his 30th birthday. But it won't move him past anyone he currently isn't already ahead of.

Nobody discounts Kobe's rings, nor do they discount Duncan's impact, not sure what the fuck you're talking about, tbh:lol..

[weebo]

If he wins a 6th title while playing at this level all playoffs, it gives him an argument for top 3 IMO. He's already solidified his place top 5.

[MateoNeygro]

Top 3. Upsetting to know he could and should have at least one more. He's been absolutely amazing and a true "blessing" to Spurs fans.

[some_user86]

Best big man?? What about Kareem?

[Juggity]

Realistically, a sixth title just cements his top 5 legacy. I've already got him somewhere in the range of 4-6, which I think is reasonable. A late-career DPOY would help the case too.

[024]

Yeah I don't think #6 would do much for Duncan's legacy. At least not as much as #5 did. #5 was needed so Duncan's career ends at a high note, especially after 6. Unless Duncan wins FMVP this year (highly unlikely), the credit will be split among the big 3, Leonard, and Pop.

[Mr Bones]

Nobody discounts Kobe's rings, nor do they discount Duncan's impact, not sure what the fuck you're talking about, tbh:lol..

Nobody? You've never in your entire life heard a single person say that Kobe's first three rings came with Shaq and therefore aren't as impressive as Jordan's? Whether it's true or not is open for discussion, but to make the claim that nobody ever discounted some of Kobe's rings is just plain wrong. Lots of people use that argument.

[cantthinkofanything]

Nobody discounts Kobe's rings, nor do they discount Duncan's impact, not sure what the fuck you're talking about, tbh:lol..

I discount a couple of his rings.
I also have asterisks by two.
And I give him half credit for 1.

[Galileo]

By most important accomplishments, Tim is the 3rd greatest of all time:

Jordan and Jabbar ahead, tied with Magic.

[Mr Bones]

Duncan is definitely adding longevity to his legacy in a way that only Kareem had previously. Olajuwan, Shaq, and others were completely done at age 38, and many other all time greats called it quits long before then. If Tim signs on for one more year, he could potentially have the most impactful season by a 40 year old ever.

[Fireball]

He is my #1 basketball player of all time ... thats all that counts

[Malik Hairston]

Nobody? You've never in your entire life heard a single person say that Kobe's first three rings came with Shaq and therefore aren't as impressive as Jordan's? Whether it's true or not is open for discussion, but to make the claim that nobody ever discounted some of Kobe's rings is just plain wrong. Lots of people use that argument.

Only fans use that argument..if he was referring to fans, then it's even more false, as Duncan is one of the most popular and highly ranked players on NBA forums like RealGm..

The media virtually never discounts Kobe's rings, nor do former players, as they generally blindly use ring count as a go-to arguing point.

[Obstructed_View]

Everything's going really well right now, but the Spurs are a long fucking way from repeating. Hoping someone bumps this thread if and when they do.

[hater]

really tough to repeat with a 70% Splitter tbh

but you can always dream :tu

[Mr Bones]

Only fans use that argument..if he was referring to fans, then it's even more false, as Duncan is one of the most popular and highly ranked players on NBA forums like RealGm..

The media virtually never discounts Kobe's rings, nor do former players, as they generally blindly use ring count as a go-to arguing point.

So you have NEVER heard a single sportscaster or former player in your entire life say that Kobe's rings weren't as impressive as Michael's because Kobe was the #2 guy for three of them? Never? I think you're being disingenuous.

[FromWayDowntown]

Let's just put it this way -- those with the loudest voices on these sorts of no-winner topics are never going to put Tim ahead of Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, and Jordan.

When Lebron's days are coming to a close, I suspect the discussion will be about where he ranks in a group of 6 that includes those 5 players and himself. There's virtually nothing that Tim Duncan can do that will change that. Tim will be an afterthought in that discussion; if anyone else is included in it, it will be Kobe, not Timmy. It's ridiculous, but that's the way it is and is the way it almost certainly will be.

[RodNIc91]

Let's just put it this way -- those with the loudest voices on these sorts of no-winner topics are never going to put Tim ahead of Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, and Jordan.

When Lebron's days are coming to a close, I suspect the discussion will be about where he ranks in a group of 6 that includes those 5 players and himself. There's virtually nothing that Tim Duncan can do that will change that. Tim will be an afterthought in that discussion; if anyone else is included in it, it will be Kobe, not Timmy. It's ridiculous, but that's the way it is and is the way it almost certainly will be.


I find your POV very interesting, and I think that will be true. However, let's say for a moment Timmy retires with 7 rings. Would that be true regardless of the rings?

[Richie]

Even with a sixth ring, Tim has no case over Kareem or Jordan. Russell and Wilt are difficult to rank because of the era they played in, I wouldn't argue with anyone putting them over Timmy although it's not a no-brainer, especially for Wilt.

Timmy has moved from the Shaq/Kobe tier up to the Magic/Bird tier IMO.

[KaiRMD1]

Tim should already be in talk of greatest ever. Nobody has had the career longevity that the old sport has. Yes, he's had some great players around Tim, alone, has remained on a certain level above effectiveness and usefulness. Almost 39 and he's putting up double doubles against young bucks. He puts up another one against the brow and that's it.

[FkLA]

My dream is that he rides off into the sunset as a Top 3 player of all-time after he three-peats next season. :cry

[will_spurs]

A late-career DPOY would help the case too.

:downspin: :lmao :lmao :lmao

[Mikeanaro]

Number 6 and he´s with Jordan and Kareem, Bird had only 3 lol I dont care about eras, 3 is 3 today tomorrow and tosorrow.

[Juggity]

:downspin: :lmao :lmao :lmao

?

[ajh18]

Number 6 and he´s with Jordan and Kareem, Bird had only 3 lol I dont care about eras, 3 is 3 today tomorrow and tosorrow.

Agree, Bird hasn't been on Tim's level for a while now. Jordan and Kareem are probably top 2 of the more "modern" era, followed by Tim/Magic (depending on your preference). Russell and Wilt are in the conversation depending on how you value dominance back in the day, but for me they are up there and I too would be fine if someone put them ahead of Tim. But anyone who puts Duncan below 5/6 is crazy.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

I think at this point Tm is one of the 5 greatest players of all time. Winning a sixth title should put him up there with Jordan and Bill Russell.

The fuck

[Sean Cagney]

I think at this point Tm is one of the 5 greatest players of all time. Winning a sixth title should put him up there with Jordan and Bill Russell.
I agree.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

It actually won't move him much. People will remember this as kawhi's team or Parkers team. To compare, think about Kobe. His 5 titles are discounted because of role player status.

It will however help Pop. And it makes Duncan more memorable as an all time great to mention that he won well past his 30th birthday. But it won't move him past anyone he currently isn't already ahead of.

That final decade Kareem played were undeniably Magic's team and that isn't held against him.

[ohmwrecker]

Wait til he's gone if you really want to find out how important he is to this team.

[Pauleta14]

and one more "player of the week" to his resume...

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/04/13/thomas-duncan-players-of-the-week/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpts

[Malik Hairston]

So you have NEVER heard a single sportscaster or former player in your entire life say that Kobe's rings weren't as impressive as Michael's because Kobe was the #2 guy for three of them? Never? I think you're being disingenuous.

That's a very specific scenario/example:lol

As an avid Kobe hater, I would love for the media/casual fans to use perspective when counting his rings, but realistically, they don't..his ring count is always cited as the main reason for his status(along with point totals, of course)

[Keepin' it real]

Pundits will never place Tim above Kareem. Never.

[Cry Havoc]

If Duncan is a major contributor (I.e., at least 3rd best player on this team) and we make another title run, you have to put Duncan in the top 5 of all-time unconditionally, probably 3rd, behind Jordan and Kareem.

As of now I have Duncan at 4.

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Bird
6. Wilt
7. Russell
8. Hakeem
9. LeBron
10. Shaq

I expect LeBron to end up anywhere from #3 to #6 all-time, so there's that.

[Cry Havoc]

Pundits will never place Tim above Kareem. Never.

I'm surprised some of them have realized how superior Duncan is to Kobe. Not all, but some.

[FlAVaK]

He is my #1 basketball player of all time ... thats all that counts

Well said :bobo

[apalisoc_9]

wow I hate kobe as much as the next spur, but I would never ever put Wilt or Russell over rapist. Never.

Jordan
Kareem
Magic
TD
Shaq
Lebron
Bird
Hakeem
Kobe

Kobe is a top 10 player of all time..even if you add another guy in that list and even if you really wanted to add one 60's guy..Kobe would still be top 10.

[Brazil]

It actually won't move him much. People will remember this as kawhi's team or Parkers team. To compare, think about Kobe. His 5 titles are discounted because of role player status.

It will however help Pop. And it makes Duncan more memorable as an all time great to mention that he won well past his 30th birthday. But it won't move him past anyone he currently isn't already ahead of.

wtf ?

Duncan has been the best Spurs throughout the POs last year, he has been the best Spurs player this year...

[will_spurs]

?

At this point in his career a DPOY makes no difference whatsoever. It's a 2nd rate award and a joke. Only things that count are more rings, FMVP and getting MVP votes as a 38+ year old.

You might as well say a MIP award would further cement his legacy :rolleyes

[Brazil]

He is top 4-5 today imo, a 6th will put him in top 3 imo fwiw

[pgardn]

Pundits will never place Tim above Kareem. Never.

Kareem had a huge decline in D.
The poor guy could not move and would just hip check people running bye him.
He was playing under different rules however. Which could make him better or worse than he really was on D depending on how one evaluates the rule changes.

[aal04]

I was going to make a thread about this being the first year ive seen Duncan decline fast. But hes been proving me wrong in the last week.

Not the first guy to think Duncan has declined prematurely!

As of ranking, he has a legit chance of FMVP.

I still have him as our best and most vital player in the 07 and 14 runs. He showed up in all the series and when we needed him. If Kawhi doesnt go off, im willing to bet Tim picks up the slack like all the other series we had where said players didnt rise.

Both 07 and 14 we won so easily Tim didnt have to go to god mode and you had inconsistent players go off. Tim was always there for the stability.

1. MJ
2-4. Magic, Kareem, Tim (no order)
*60s players excluded

Another title as FMVP and he becomes my goat.

[Knoxxx]

By most important accomplishments, Tim is the 3rd greatest of all time:

Jordan and Jabbar ahead, tied with Magic.

Go Hillary, spare us from total idiots like Rand Paul and Ted Cruz!

[Diego20]

1: TD
2: TD
3 : TD
4: idc

[Mr Bones]

That's a very specific scenario/example:lol

As an avid Kobe hater, I would love for the media/casual fans to use perspective when counting his rings, but realistically, they don't..his ring count is always cited as the main reason for his status(along with point totals, of course)


Disingenuous.

[DMC]

6 title doesn't make Tim the GOAT. He's seeing diminishing returns on team success these days because he's so close to the top of the pile already. He's the best to ever to it how he's done it, but MJ would still be the GOAT for other reasons.

Tim doesn't need another ring to be where he would be with another ring, he's there already.

[DMC]

Top 3. Upsetting to know he could and should have at least one more. He's been absolutely amazing and a true "blessing" to Spurs fans.
He could have as many as the seasons he's played. No reason to think any goal not achieved is more "could have" than any other. He has a chance to win every time he's on the floor.

[100%duncan]

He is my #1 basketball player of all time ... thats all that counts

[barbacoataco]

As always you have to distinguish between "peak value" and "career value." Classic baseball argument - Sandy Koufax is higher in the first list, while Warren Spahn, who had a much longer career but never was as dominant as Koufax, would've higher on the career value list. The SABR guru Bill James made this argument that you must have 2 lists, and he was right.

While Duncan continues to rise on the all time "career," his place on the " peak" list does not change since his peak was 1999-2005. I think he is a top 3-5 player on the career list , but barely a top 10 player on the peak list.

Also, the peak value is not the best season a player had, but the highest level of sustained value. This is more or less the sum of their top 5 or so seasons.

[dbreiden83080]

His resume is already up there with anyone..

Championships
Longevity
Dominance
Versatility

There is nothing he has not done..

[dbreiden83080]

Pundits will never place Tim above Kareem. Never.

They are in the same conversation.. Pretty amazing just to be even close..

[barbacoataco]

To add to the point I just made, I think both Shaq and Hakeem would be above Duncan and Kareem in a list of all time greats- " peak value." But Kareem and TD are higher on the career list.

Jordan is #1 on my list for peak value and career list. I guy like Karl Malone would be higher on the career list than the peak value.

[Juggity]

At this point in his career a DPOY makes no difference whatsoever. It's a 2nd rate award and a joke. Only things that count are more rings, FMVP and getting MVP votes as a 38+ year old.

You might as well say a MIP award would further cement his legacy :rolleyes

Actually, I think that's totally incorrect. A DPOY award is a validation that TD was the single best defender in the league over the course of a particular season. I think it's totally fair to say that winning a DPOY award nudges him up higher in the top 5 all-time discussion. Obviously, it doesn't mean as much as a finals MVP. But to say that it's meaningless is just a poor take. It would mean a lot to the legacy discussion.

[dbreiden83080]

Actually, I think that's totally incorrect. A DPOY award is a validation that TD was the single best defender in the league over the course of a particular season. I think it's totally fair to say that winning a DPOY award nudges him up higher in the top 5 all-time discussion. Obviously, it doesn't mean as much as a finals MVP. But to say that it's meaningless is just a poor take. It would mean a lot to the legacy discussion.

Players that are not on his level as defenders have won that award many times over.. It is meaningless when you look at who won and years he was overlooked.. His 1st team all D selections are amazing (8).. 12 years total on 1 of the all D teams..

[barbacoataco]

A DPOY would be one more accolade and strengthen his defensive reputation. He's not going to get it anyway.

[K...]

FWIW i already consider Duncan top 5, probably 4rth.

For those who argued that championships get discounted by being a role player (kobe rules) have to remember the dumb Horry>Kobe smack. This is a slippery slope type argument. How do you define a role player vs the alpha?


Jordan won 6 titles as the alpha. No one bailed him out and he was always the best player when he stepped on the court. That's why he's all time number 1. Kobe was different shades of #1 and #2 throughout his career. He was rarely better than Shaq and not much better than Gasol. That's why Kobe is looking outside the top 15 now despite 5 titles and whatever else you want to mention.

Duncan was absolutely the best player in the spurs 4 titles. I know I'm supposed to say Parker in 2007 but I'm leaving my player fan status alone for tonight.

2014? Was he clearly better than Kawhi, Boris, etc? Did he impose his will? He did against OKC for sure. But the spurs did not need him to be MVP level last year and he won't be this year.


Now we need to separate two parts of legacy. The all time great lists are fun and all but they're bullshit. No one really thinks you can compare players across ages (eastern bloc training era especially)

The other part is whether Duncan gets remembered in years ahead. These late titles (inshallah) are absolutely going to keep Duncan as an NBA icon for decades. Kobe too, despite being top 10-20 is going to be treated as a top 5 based on his celebrity status and ridiculous highlights. Duncan will be part of the all time great regardless of era. He'll be invited to NBA functions as much as he wants.

And to echo DMC, part of the problems is that you have diminishing returns after 3 championships. Otherwise Shaq would be heavily docked for being behind Kobe in ring count.

At this point the difference between Duncan and Kareem is measured in decimal points. It's preference. If you know statistics, then imagine having the same data run through hundreds of different algorithms or regression models. Thats what we have here. Every algorithm is going to value Duncan 6 (inshallah) more or less. I value it less because i already gave Duncan a big bump for 5. 6 isn't doing much. Only Phil Jackson cares about repeat shit, and repeating in 2004, 2006, or 2009 would have been much better for his career.

Oh and finally, LOL at op. When i first clicked on this thread I thought it was a player fan thread about Duncan moving to role player status. "Time to move past the HOF PF...Hell yeah Kawhi's team!

[LoneStarState'sPride]

GOAT of GOATs

[neboat]

IMO...TD already surpassed Bird

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Duncan
Magic
Bird
Shaq
Kobe
Wilt
LBJ

[Horse]

FWIW i already consider Duncan top 5, probably 4rth.

For those who argued that championships get discounted by being a role player (kobe rules) have to remember the dumb Horry>Kobe smack. This is a slippery slope type argument. How do you define a role player vs the alpha?


Jordan won 6 titles as the alpha. No one bailed him out and he was always the best player when he stepped on the court. That's why he's all time number 1. Kobe was different shades of #1 and #2 throughout his career. He was rarely better than Shaq and not much better than Gasol. That's why Kobe is looking outside the top 15 now despite 5 titles and whatever else you want to mention.

Duncan was absolutely the best player in the spurs 4 titles. I know I'm supposed to say Parker in 2007 but I'm leaving my player fan status alone for tonight.

2014? Was he clearly better than Kawhi, Boris, etc? Did he impose his will? He did against OKC for sure. But the spurs did not need him to be MVP level last year and he won't be this year.


Now we need to separate two parts of legacy. The all time great lists are fun and all but they're bullshit. No one really thinks you can compare players across ages (eastern bloc training era especially)

The other part is whether Duncan gets remembered in years ahead. These late titles (inshallah) are absolutely going to keep Duncan as an NBA icon for decades. Kobe too, despite being top 10-20 is going to be treated as a top 5 based on his celebrity status and ridiculous highlights. Duncan will be part of the all time great regardless of era. He'll be invited to NBA functions as much as he wants.

And to echo DMC, part of the problems is that you have diminishing returns after 3 championships. Otherwise Shaq would be heavily docked for being behind Kobe in ring count.

At this point the difference between Duncan and Kareem is measured in decimal points. It's preference. If you know statistics, then imagine having the same data run through hundreds of different algorithms or regression models. Thats what we have here. Every algorithm is going to value Duncan 6 (inshallah) more or less. I value it less because i already gave Duncan a big bump for 5. 6 isn't doing much. Only Phil Jackson cares about repeat shit, and repeating in 2004, 2006, or 2009 would have been much better for his career.

Oh and finally, LOL at op. When i first clicked on this thread I thought it was a player fan thread about Duncan moving to role player status. "Time to move past the HOF PF...Hell yeah Kawhi's team!

Oh no Timmy will always be #1. If people valued defense and teamwork he may be the GOAT already.

[K...]

Like i said, difference algorithms. The san antonio based algorithms might be especially biased

[barbacoataco]

Michael Jordan was a great defender who knew how to build and play with winning teams.

[Cklbmk]

My dream is that he rides off into the sunset as a Top 3 player of all-time after he three-peats next season. :cry


Me too.

[Russo21]

I think it was Ray Allen who said in 2005 that he thought Tim was already top 5 all time, I think he said that after the Spurs beat Allen's Sonics in the 2005 playoffs on a bad ankle. And he's kept adding rings to his collection ever since.

[Splits]

As always you have to distinguish between "peak value" and "career value." Classic baseball argument - Sandy Koufax is higher in the first list, while Warren Spahn, who had a much longer career but never was as dominant as Koufax, would've higher on the career value list. The SABR guru Bill James made this argument that you must have 2 lists, and he was right.

While Duncan continues to rise on the all time "career," his place on the " peak" list does not change since his peak was 1999-2005. I think he is a top 3-5 player on the career list , but barely a top 10 player on the peak list.

Also, the peak value is not the best season a player had, but the highest level of sustained value. This is more or less the sum of their top 5 or so seasons.

:lol pretending American Cricket is a "sport" comparable to the NBA.

[Yuixafun]

It will be how the 6th ring is won... That will determine the value of it affecting TD's legacy. And with Tiago being injured, Parker in a flux, Patty still dormant, excluding last game, Green a known threat, Manu a shadow of his former self and Kl still not really having been the man while being expected to be the Man.... If Tim Duncan has one last playoff span of utter brilliance, and is the main reason Spurs repeat..... Like the Houston game, of course his legend grows to more rarefied air.

If he is just the solid rock, I agree it doesn't raise his stock much, but I bet he will live out the rest of his days, as the city will and the big 3, that they finally repeated.

[TD 21]

It was time to years ago. I've been saying for years that this title actually understates his greatness, because it tends to leave him out of the discussion for best big of all-time.

The vast majority of the national media can't seem to look past the power forward label, even though they've always (rightly) considered him more of a center. As if he can't be considered for both.

[mystargtr34]

^ yep.. the greatest PF of all time label has become a short sell for Tim.. its like calling Magic the greatest PG of all time..everyone needs to forget about that label and start including him in greatest big of all time discussion.

[Marcus Bryant]

Let's just put it this way -- those with the loudest voices on these sorts of no-winner topics are never going to put Tim ahead of Russell, Kareem, Magic, Bird, and Jordan.

When Lebron's days are coming to a close, I suspect the discussion will be about where he ranks in a group of 6 that includes those 5 players and himself. There's virtually nothing that Tim Duncan can do that will change that. Tim will be an afterthought in that discussion; if anyone else is included in it, it will be Kobe, not Timmy. It's ridiculous, but that's the way it is and is the way it almost certainly will be.

Indeed. Over the last couple of years the Spurs have seen an upsurge in hipster-esque appreciation nationally, the anti-cool cool or what not, but that is not going to last. It is what it is, we got at least 25 seasons of winning basketball, save for one, in San Antonio de Bexar. And, with a little luck, that will continue on into a fourth decade.

[Kidd K]

I agree. . .with 6 he would be top 5 all time fairly easily imo. He possibly already is. You have Jordan, Russell, Jabaar, Duncan, and Magic imo. That's your top 5 in whatever order you wanna argue. Dude is a legend.



It actually won't move him much. People will remember this as kawhi's team or Parkers team. To compare, think about Kobe. His 5 titles are discounted because of role player status.

It will however help Pop. And it makes Duncan more memorable as an all time great to mention that he won well past his 30th birthday. But it won't move him past anyone he currently isn't already ahead of.

No one will remember the Spurs as "Parker's team". I like Parker more than most on here, but he will be about as remembered as John Starks. A good player but clearly a sidekick. As for Kawhi, he is good but look at his stats. This is his best year yet they're arguably still worse than Duncan's old man stats. I mean, look at WS/48 for this season (and this excuses Leonard for missing all that time). Almost identical. Offensive and Defensive ratings nearly identical. Duncan also slightly higher PER. And this is being old as fuck against Kawhi being at a young 23.

Another interesting note, Duncan's only played less games in a season than Kawhi's most played season in his 4 year career only a single time in Duncan's 18 year career. And even that was only 7 games less (I'm excluding the shortened 1999 season where Duncan missed 0 games anyway). So Kawhi's team? History will not remember it as such either, even should Kawhi, after this season, become a star. Unless he has some super crazy breakout playoff run, it's still Duncan's team even this year imo.

[letmk]

The first 4 championship teams were undoubtedly TD's team even considering Tony's '07 MVP and Manu's performance in '05. In 2013, it was not HIS team, but TD was still arguably the best player in the team. In 2014, TD was among the best players in the team, but Kawhi, Diaw and Green all could make claims as the best performer during the playoffs run. Even Splitter could argue his case for a couple rounds.

In 2015, so far for the regular season, TD was the team MVP in the first half, and Kawhi was the team MVP in the second half. But the Spurs have a much better record during the second half, so Kawhi deservedly got the praise and attention from the national media. But remember, the Spurs made the turn-around in the second half with TD, not like Kawhi took the team to 2nd seed when TD missed the second half. IIRC, TD took a few games off during the early season for "DNP - old", but he hasn't missed a game for a looong time since the Spurs were in a uphill situation. Plus, other injured players like Splitter and Mills were slowly coming back later in the season. For the playoffs, I expect both TD and Kawhi play well, and I wish that Kawhi could elevate even more and make a clear case as the #1 guy for the Spurs. Because only by then, the Spurs could have a chance to take home #6.

All in all, it's very unfortunate that Pop and the Spurs choked in the last 30 seconds in 2013. That #4 Finals MVP would've made the strongest case for TD to be an All-time top 5 (or even top 3) player. But as long as the Spurs got the #6, that would satisfy all the Spurs fans.