Zach Lowe: NBA Awards

[manufan10]

Defensive Player of the Year1. Draymond Green
2. Kawhi Leonard
3. Andrew Bogut
Leonard has been the league’s best defender, a pouncing terror who prevents the shots you want, disrupts the shots for which you settle, and steals the ball from anyone who tries one too many dribbles within his general vicinity. He is a goddamned menace to society. He can lock down at least three positions, and the Spurs defense has collapsed with Leonard on the bench. But durability matters, and Leonard has appeared in 15 fewer games and logged about 475 fewer minutes than Green.
That’s enough to swing it to Golden State’s position-less security guard — a cinder block with long arms, quick hands, an unbreakable grip, and an advanced understanding of the floor. Green’s ability to thwart bigger players in the post4 (http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-awards-ballot-part-1-in-praise-of-the-individual/#fn-4) has allowed the Warriors to play smaller and spread the floor with shooting; Kerr has even dared to play heavy minutes with Green at center, and the Dubs defense is just as stingy when Green plays without Bogut, per NBA.com.

https://espngrantland.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/gregg-popovich-tri.jpg?w=694&h=463


Pop has won two of the last three seasons, and he may not even make this season’s top three — even though he remains the league’s best coach for a team doing its usual thing. Voting for someone other than Pop at this point is voting for narrative over boredom — the rise of the Spursian Hawks amid controversy, or Kerr helping transform a good team into a great one.
But this isn’t some lifetime achievement vote. The Spurs have surged into the West’s no. 2 seed despite a brutal winter schedule and injuries to Tony Parker, Leonard, Tiago Splitter, Patty Mills, and others. Popovich lived through the growing pains of easing Leonard into a lead role on offense, and he’s reaping the dividends now as Leonard explodes at the right time. Popovich and R.C. Buford, the team’s GM, find the right bench players, and Popovich sticks with guys like Cory Joseph, Aron Baynes, and Danny Green until they are ready for major roles.
Pop is the best, period.....

Read the rest: http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-awards-ballot-part-1-in-praise-of-the-individual/

[Kawhi]

Draymond Green ain't shit

[BatManu20]

Green's going to win it, tbh.

[Leetonidas]

Rather see Gobert win than Green's bitchmade ass tbh

[hater]

GOATbert = game changer

[Chinook]

DPOY or not, Draymond can't guard Diaw.

[SpursFan86]

Just please don't let DeAndre Jordan win it.

[Mal]

Isnt Gobert from irrelevant Utah team ?

[RD2191]

DPOY or not, Draymond can't guard Diaw.
He did a pretty good job against him the other night, tbh. Diaw couldn't get anything going. I was hoping Diaw could do work but I didn't see it.

[Horry Hipcheck]

Coach of the Year1. Gregg Popovich
2. Mike Budenholzer
3. Steve Kerr



Sincerest apologies to Frank Vogel, Brad Stevens, Quin Snyder, David Blatt, Jason Kidd, Brett Brown, Kevin McHale, Dave Joerger, Terry Stotts, and Glenn “Doc” Rivers.

Do not apologize to Kevin McHale.

[Brazil]

Isnt Gobert from irrelevant Utah team ?

yes

best defending big and overall great impact player

kid has a future if not plagued by injuries

[Spur|n|Austin]

Green :lol

[BatManu20]

yes

best defending big and overall great impact player

kid has a future if not plagued by injuries

And he was one pick away from being a Spur, smh..

[Mr Bones]

It's been interesting watching certain players like Draymond Green and Paul Millsap re-invent themselves from "under-sized" PFs to "versatile" PFs. Years ago, a PF wasn't expected to switch as much defensively on a SF or a SG, but in today's NBA it's a much more valuable trait. That, plus adding the 3 pt shot offensively has really changed the position.

[minuzzo21]

Draymond Green just because Leonard missed a lot of games

[Darius McCrary]

I hope Kawhi gets snubbed.
It'll motivate him to go SSJ-4 on the Warriors.
:tu

[Perry Mason]

yes

best defending big and overall great impact player

kid has a future if not plagued by injuries

Isn't 38-year old Timmy already averaging close to Gobert's blocks per game, while also sporting better advanced defensive stats (DRPM, etc)?

[cantthinkofanything]

I hope Kawhi gets snubbed.
It'll motivate him to go SSJ-4 on the Warriors.
:tu

Solid analysis. I think I agree.

[cd021]

Just please don't let DeAndre Jordan win it.

Thy should get rid of the award if he wins it. Anchoring a team barely at league average defensively. 18th in DRPM among centers.

[tmtcsc]

Ah yes, DPOY for the NBA's new darlings. SMH, guy misses 15 out of 82 games and you give it to the alternate.

[jag]

Do not apologize to Kevin McHale.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NcPsd_59byc

McHale always has this look on his face like he just wandered in off the street and isn't sure which team he's supposed to be coaching.

[DJR210]

:lmao if this comes true

[313]

Ah yes, DPOY for the NBA's new darlings. SMH, guy misses 15 out of 82 games and you give it to the alternate.

[apalisoc_9]

I love Kawhi Leonard, but not sure why anyone would hate on Lowe. Lowe said, he'd pick kawhi if not for the missed games. He also thinks Kawhi is by far the best defender in league specially how team now use the perimeter more than the post.

[DAF86]

I love Kawhi Leonard, but not sure why anyone would hate on Lowe. Lowe said, he'd pick kawhi if not for the missed games. He also thinks Kawhi is by far the best defender in league specially how team now use the perimeter more than the post.

Because that's a stupid ass argument. If you think Kawhi Leonard is the best defensive player give the award to him, don't come with weak ass excuses. :cry He played 15 less games. Boo fucking hoo :cry

[Mel_13]

I love Kawhi Leonard, but not sure why anyone would hate on Lowe. Lowe said, he'd pick kawhi if not for the missed games. He also thinks Kawhi is by far the best defender in league specially how team now use the perimeter more than the post.

Good post. No need to hate on one of the better NBA writers out there.

[apalisoc_9]

Because that's a stupid ass argument. If you think Kawhi Leonard is the best defensive player give the award to him, don't come with weak ass excuses. :cry He played 15 less games. Boo fucking hoo :cry

Lowe is one of the very few writers out there that thinks Leonad has cemented himself as the best defender in the league..Short stop. period...:lol

I don't know if you're being sarcastic though. :lol

[loveforthegame]

Bob Fitzgerald said he has Leonard for 1st all defense team during the last Spurs-Warriors telecast. Jim Barnett agreed.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/sports/wp/2015/04/14/2015-nba-awards-stephen-curry-for-mvp-andrew-wiggins-as-top-rookie/

This guy from the Washington Post has Leonard for DPOY despite the missed games. 1st team defensive team too.

https://mobile.twitter.com/FredKatz

Fred Katz (posted his on Twitter) has Leonard runner up for DPOY. Has him on 1st team all defense and 3rd team all-NBA.

[DAF86]

Lowe is one of the very few writers out there that thinks Leonad has cemented himself as the best defender in the league..Short stop. period...:lol

I don't know if you're being sarcastic though. :lol

No, I really think the "less games" thing is retarded. Specially 'cause is only 15 games, not 30.

[TheGreatYacht]

Draymond Green is the most overrated turd in the league :lmao

[DAF86]

BTW, I also think Lowe is one of the (if not the) best NBA writers right now.

[TheGreatYacht]

No, I really think the "less games" thing is retarded. Specially 'cause is only 15 games, not 30.
Right? That missed games bullshit doesn't seem to apply to guys like Chimpbrook, Butler, or Crawford. I still see them as candidates in every other award

[apalisoc_9]

No, I really think the "less games" thing is retarded. Specially 'cause is only 15 games, not 30.

I agree..but Lowe does go deeper into his reason deep into one of his podcast..

in any case, i dont want to hate on the guy because its rare to see guys like lowe in the media.

[SpursFan86]

No, I really think the "less games" thing is retarded. Specially 'cause is only 15 games, not 30.

15 games is a little less than 20% of the season.

Missing games absolutely matters. More time on the court = more impact you're having over the course of the season. Who is going to have more impact, a guy who plays 10/10 defense for 60 games a season, or a guy who plays 9/10 defense for 80 games a season? Rhetorical question...

Draymond over Kawhi is perfectly reasonable. You can easily argue that Kawhi hasn't been so much better than Draymond on defense that it makes up for nearly 500 extra minutes played by Draymond.

[will_spurs]

Talking about the other half of what the OP quoted, I wouldn't mind seeing Kerr get a COY. Mostly because it would mean it's raining shit on Mark Jackson, and he's easily in my top 10 of most irritating guys in the NBA right now (if not top 5, with Reggie Miller, Clyde Drexler...)

[SpursFan86]

Right? That missed games bullshit doesn't seem to apply to guys like Chimpbrook, Butler, or Crawford. I still see them as candidates in every other award

Kawhi is literally Lowe's 2nd choice for DPOTY...it's not like people aren't listing him as a candidate still. Just saying they won't give him 1st place vote because of time missed. That's absolutely reasonable.

[Brazil]

Isn't 38-year old Timmy already averaging close to Gobert's blocks per game, while also sporting better advanced defensive stats (DRPM, etc)?

if you want to go to the road of Timmy is better at 38 y/o than the kid, I have no issue tbh... I'm on the wagon of people saying Tim has an amazing season and is overlooked even by his own fan base :lol

For the rest, I did not check their advanced def stat. I'm just saying kid is talented and for what I saw but also as said by numerous people, he is having a great impact of defense. Don't forget he is playing with mostly scrubs out there, his job on defense is a bit more complicated than with Kawhi, Split and Green. Again superficially I'd say the fact we have 4 of the top 10-15 best defender of the league playing together a lot of minutes is helping defensive individual stats of the 4 of them.

[z0sa]

Missed games is often used as an excuse for not giving it to the best player. It is usually not indicative of the winner tbh. Examples include Marcus Camby over Bruce Bowen despite missed games, and Marc Gasol over TD in 2013 "because" of TD's missed games.

[Thomas82]

Ah yes, DPOY for the NBA's new darlings. SMH, guy misses 15 out of 82 games and you give it to the alternate.

I couldn't have said it better.

[SpurPadre]

I'd just hate an arrogant, show-boating piece of shit like Draymond to win anything, tbh.

[BatManu20]

Hopefully it lights a fire under Kawhi's ass and he comes out to prove a point.

[SpursFan86]

Missed games is often used as an excuse for not giving it to the best player. It is usually not indicative of the winner tbh. Examples include Marcus Camby over Bruce Bowen despite missed games, and Marc Gasol over TD in 2013 "because" of TD's missed games.

Again...minutes played matters. More games --> more minutes --> more time a player is on the court helping his team.

Marc played ~2800 minutes in 2013. Tim played ~2100. That's a noticeable difference. I agree that Tim was a better player on a per-minute basis. But when you look at the scope of the entire season and are judging their impacts as a whole? That's when minutes matter. I'm not saying Tim couldn't have won it that year, but it wasn't like he got robbed and Marc didn't deserve it.

[DBMethos]

Hopefully it lights a fire under Kawhi's ass and he comes out to prove a point.

This. Especially if we end up facing GSW.

[Malik Hairston]

The less minutes played argument is perfectly reasonable, I said the same thing when Gasol won over Duncan(which was even more reasonable, as Gasol played 700 more minutes IIRC, a colossal disparity)..

The DPOY award isn't given to the best defensive player in the NBA, it's given to the player that had the best defensive season for that particular year(just like MVP isn't given to the best in the NBA, otherwise Dad Killer would have won it every year, as would Lebron)..Kawhi is unquestionably a better defender than Green and probably the best defender in the NBA outside of maybe Gobert, but 500 less minutes than Green is a significant disparity..to put that in context, think about how many close games the Spurs have lost this year, all those minutes matter..

[Raven]

i really don't see how someone played enough games to be #2 but not #1

[TD 21]

The less minutes played argument is perfectly reasonable, I said the same thing when Gasol won over Duncan(which was even more reasonable, as Gasol played 700 more minutes IIRC, a colossal disparity)..

The DPOY award isn't given to the best defensive player in the NBA, it's given to the player that had the best defensive season for that particular year(just like MVP isn't given to the best in the NBA, otherwise Dad Killer would have won it every year, as would Lebron)..Kawhi is unquestionably a better defender than Green and probably the best defender in the NBA outside of maybe Gobert, but 500 less minutes than Green is a significant disparity..to put that in context, think about how many close games the Spurs have lost this year, all those minutes matter..

Generally, I'd agree, but because Duncan not winning a DPOY (despite no one in history anchoring more elite defenses or having greater longevity as an impact defender) is the greatest individual award travesty in the history of North American professional sports, he deserved that one, in part as a career achievement. And he probably would have won it if a white player wasn't the other prime contender.

I always felt the reason he never won it was because he never fit the stereotypical mold of what many think a great defender looks like. Also, a lack of advanced metrics and in depth analysis throughout most of his career played a part.

[Raven]

one argument against green, is that he never has to guard the opposing team's best player, another is that he was a nobody last year, therefore making it a good bet that he had a fluke season favoured by great teammates and another is that he is not even the best defender in his own team and it's not even close (bogut).

[BillMc]

Hope Kawhi pulls out the DPOY and he and Timmy make the All-NBA teams. (Danny deserves a few votes for All Defensive team too).

[BillMc]

one argument against green, is that he never has to guard the opposing team's best player, another is that he was a nobody last year, therefore making it a good bet that he had a fluke season favoured by great teammates and another is that he is not even the best defender in his own team and it's not even close (bogut).

All good points.

[cjw]

Isnt Gobert from irrelevant Utah team ?

You mean the team that could finish tied with Phoenix, with a positive point differential, who on record alone would make the playoffs in the East and with an Eastern schedule, could be in the 4/5 matchup?

How tides turned for that team once Kanter was shipped out.

[aal04]

Kawhi is the best defender. but its not just missed games that hurt him. It took him atleast 5-10 games to overcome that dodgy eye.

We forgetting how bad he played when he was in recovery mode?

[DPG21920]

587002938347761666

587020046830014464

[apalisoc_9]

How many points does a 2nd place in voting get?

I recall a few awards in the past where the winner had less first place votes..Or maybe I am dreaming.

I think Harden might win soley for this reason.

[Malik Hairston]

587002938347761666

587020046830014464
Good to see you, tbh..

[Mel_13]

How many points does a 2nd place in voting get?

I recall a few awards in the past where the winner had less first place votes..Or maybe I am dreaming.

I think Harden might win soley for this reason.

Each ballot has 5 places. 10 points for first, then 7-5-3-1.

[DarrinS]

Doesn't count, but Kawhi winning DPOY on NBA.com poll

[Texas_Ranger]

Lowe and Simmons are my 2 favourites.

[apalisoc_9]

Doesn't count, but Kawhi winning DPOY on NBA.com poll

Kawhi is winning every fan Poll tbh...NBA, realgm, etc.

Not really a factor though

[Diego20]

Tony Parker is going to win it, period.

[SupremeGuy]

It's a fucking joke if Kawhi doesn't win, tbh.

That being said, I understand how shit like this works and Kawhi probably won't win.

[Raven]

also, it's clear that saying "kawhi is the best defender in the league, but draymond played more games" leaves a bad taste in the voter's mouth. Years from now when they'll look back, people will be like "hey zach, how come you didn't vote for kawhi that year, he was clearly the best defender and now he won x in a row" answering "yeah, i knew he was the best but he missed some games" sounds pretty stupid..

[SpursFan86]

"He was the best defender while on the court, but there was another guy who was nearly as good and played far more minutes than him"

Seems like pretty reasonable justification.

You guys act like Draymond is just some decent defender who played 82 games or some shit :lol

[Malik Hairston]

There's also the fact that the Warriors are by far the most beloved and popular team in the league, too:lol..

The media and casual fan likes them more than I've ever seen for a non-title team..I'm sure most here haven't forgotten the lovefest and everybody cheering for them in the 2013 series..

[Mel_13]

Most of the voters for these awards never give any insight into what factors led to their votes. Lowe has written a detailed rationale for each award. Very useful article, IMO.

[Cane]

There's also the fact that the Warriors are by far the most beloved and popular team in the league, too:lol..

The media and casual fan likes them more than I've ever seen for a non-title team..I'm sure most here haven't forgotten the lovefest and everybody cheering for them in the 2013 series..

Kerr is in bed with the media tbh. He must have learned it from Steve Nash's 2x MVPs

[Raven]

"He was the best defender while on the court, but there was another guy who was nearly as good and played far more minutes than him"

Seems like pretty reasonable justification.

You guys act like Draymond is just some decent defender who played 82 games or some shit :lol

that's pretty much the truth tbh, he is just a guy who has great advanced metric, but nothing spectacular compared to his teammates. Other than that, he has no argument. Really, his best trait, is keeping David Lee off the court, it's more addition by subtraction than anything.

[Malik Hairston]

Kerr is in bed with the media tbh. He must have learned it from Steve Nash's 2x MVPs

That and Curry is a perfect face for the league..fun to watch, light-skinned, non-threatening, good teammate, no chance of off-field mistakes, etc..

[SpursFan86]

that's pretty much the truth tbh, he is just a guy who has great advanced metric, but nothing spectacular compared to his teammates. Other than that, he has no argument. Really, his best trait, is keeping David Lee off the court, it's more addition by subtraction than anything.

Have you watched him play? He's absolutely an excellent defender. He's extremely versatile and can guard players of all positions. He manages to keep their defense at an elite level even without Bogut. People seem to be forgetting that Bogut has missed a decent amount of time this year, and isn't even playing many minutes. Bogut has played 40% of Golden State's minutes this year.

Draymond on, Bogut off: Warriors' DRTG = 100.2 (would be best in the NBA)

How is he nothing spectacular compared to his teammates? Bogut is a better defender, but as I mentioned, he doesn't even play half of his team's minutes. He's played less minutes than Manu this year. Klay is a good defender but nothing special. Why is their defense so good without Bogut if not for Draymond Green?

[SpursFan86]

Again, I'm not saying that he's better than Kawhi. Just disagree with this notion that he's nothing special and that him winning DPOTY over Kawhi would be some travesty :lol

[Malik Hairston]

Hopefully Tim makes all-D, at least..I don't expect DG to make it, Lowe will probably be one of the few that votes for him(along with other new-media, metrics connoisseurs)..

I expect first-team to be:

G Paul(:lol)
G Allen
F Leonard
F Green
C Jordan(unfortunately)

2nd team will probably be:
G ?
G ?
F
F Davis(he will get it, poor choice, overrated defender IMO)
C Bogut

Hopefully Lebron doesn't get the Kobe treatment and get in:lol..wouldn't be surprised if Thompson or Iggy make it because they're Warriors

[RD2191]

Only Kobe Bryant can win awards without playing a full season.

[SpursFan86]

Hopefully Tim makes all-D, at least..I don't expect DG to make it, Lowe will probably be one of the few that votes for him(along with other new-media, metrics connoisseurs)..

What do you think about Tim's chances for All-NBA 3rd Team? Gasol and Cousins have 1st and 2nd Team locked up. 3rd will either go to DeAndre, Tim, or Horford.

[Malik Hairston]

What do you think about Tim's chances for All-NBA 3rd Team? Gasol and Cousins have 1st and 2nd Team locked up. 3rd will either go to DeAndre, Tim, or Horford.

No idea..it's a toss-up, and it depends on the positioning..

I don't think Cousins is as popular with voters as he is with fans, though, and players on teams with poor records generally don't get treated well on All-NBA teams..

[Raven]

Have you watched him play? He's absolutely an excellent defender. He's extremely versatile and can guard players of all positions. He manages to keep their defense at an elite level even without Bogut. People seem to be forgetting that Bogut has missed a decent amount of time this year, and isn't even playing many minutes. Bogut has played 40% of Golden State's minutes this year.

Draymond on, Bogut off: Warriors' DRTG = 100.2 (would be best in the NBA)

How is he nothing spectacular compared to his teammates? Bogut is a better defender, but as I mentioned, he doesn't even play half of his team's minutes. He's played less minutes than Manu this year. Klay is a good defender but nothing special. Why is their defense so good without Bogut if not for Draymond Green?

let's see:







Production
On Court/Off Court
Simple


Player
Min
Own
Opp
Net
On
Off
Net
Rating


Curry (http://www.82games.com/1415/14GSW1.HTM)
69%
29.2
13.9
+15.4
+16.5
-1.4
+17.9
+16.2


Thompson (http://www.82games.com/1415/14GSW6.HTM)
66%
22.1
10.1
+12.0
+14.9
+3.1
+11.8
+12.0


Green (http://www.82games.com/1415/14GSW9.HTM)
66%
17.1
13.5
+3.6
+15.7
+1.5
+14.2
+7.1


McAdoo (http://www.82games.com/1415/14GSW11.HTM)
1%
33.3
25.0
+8.3
+9.8
+10.9
-1.1
+5.2


Bogut (http://www.82games.com/1415/14GSW15.HTM)
36%
17.5
15.2
+2.4
+16.4
+7.8
+8.6
+4.5


Iguodala (http://www.82games.com/1415/14GSW7.HTM)
53%
11.8
8.7
+3.1
+10.9
+10.9
+0.0
+2.1


Lee (http://www.82games.com/1415/14GSW12.HTM)
21%
21.1
19.2
+1.9
+10.0
+11.2
-1.2
+0.9


Holiday (http://www.82games.com/1415/14GSW5.HTM)
14%
13.1
10.3
+2.8
+7.5
+11.5
-4.0
+0.5


Barnes (http://www.82games.com/1415/14GSW10.HTM)
61%
14.8
15.5
-0.7
+11.7
+9.7
+2.0
+0.2




as you can see, Green is pairing himself with two wing player with better defensive metrics than him, that shut down the teams best wingers and add in bogut's rim protection, and all he really has to do is guard the screen and roll. May not be trivial, but he is not even close to the standalone defenders that gobert and leonard are. One locks the paint and the other locks the best players in the league (minus harden and some pgs). Green otoh doesn't lock up anybody, he plays good system defence.

[Raven]

also, if you check the 5 man units, this unit Curry-Thompson-Iguodala-Barnes-Bogut, has a sick 0.67 points per possession, compared to the 0.97 of the starting lineup.

[SpursFan86]

But I already pointed out how their defense remains elite even when Bogut isn't playing (which is a majority of the time).

Which two wing players have better defensive metrics than Green? He's 4th in the league in DRPM, and the only wing player ahead of him is Kawhi.

Also, being one of the best PnR defenders in the league isn't something you just toss aside :lol PnR is such a huge part of today's game...having someone who can switch on to any player at any moment and guard them at an elite level is a huge deal.

[Richie]

What do you think about Tim's chances for All-NBA 3rd Team? Gasol and Cousins have 1st and 2nd Team locked up. 3rd will either go to DeAndre, Tim, or Horford.

I see Timmy making it as he'll get a bunch of votes as a forward too.

[Raven]

But I already pointed out how their defense remains elite even when Bogut isn't playing (which is a majority of the time).

Which two wing players have better defensive metrics than Green? He's 4th in the league in DRPM, and the only wing player ahead of him is Kawhi.

Also, being one of the best PnR defenders in the league isn't something you just toss aside :lol PnR is such a huge part of today's game...having someone who can switch on to any player at any moment and guard them at an elite level is a huge deal.

igoudala and klay thompson allow less production to their opposing player. And yeah, it's a big deal, but that doesn't make him necessarily a great defender, you can always isolate or try something else if needed.

[SpursFan86]

But Draymond is a great isolation defender too...he gives up just .57 ppp in isolation situations, which is in the 93rd percentile and is the best on Golden State.

[MI21]

Gaymond Dreen :lol I trust he will be exposed in the playoffs.

Can't hate on Lowe's rationale, as noted, the extra minutes is a pretty big deal and he noted he believes Leonard is actually the best defender. Solid decision from him.

It is a little weird to me that he would put Leonard 2nd following that rationale though and then Bogut 3rd who barely plays half a game, which is equivalent to him playing 35MPG for about 55-60 regular season games.

[RD2191]

Call me crazy but imo it's alot more difficult to shut down a talented guard/small forward than a center/pf. In today's NBA anyways. imo.

[SpursFan86]

And tbh, it's funny you choose to focus on isolation and 1-on-1 defense when you're arguing for Kawhi. One of Kawhi's biggest strengths, and the thing that separates him from other perimeter defenders IMO, is how great he is at help defense. His length and IQ allows him to make plays the vast majority of defenders aren't able to make. He can help off guys in situations where normal defenders wouldn't be able to, and he still recovers because of that length.

Kawhi isn't the best 1-on-1 isolation defender in the league (he actually ranks in the bottom half of the league in ppp allowed in isolation situations, but he hasn't had had too many iso possessions on defense). That probably goes to Tony Allen. But Kawhi is still the best perimeter defender because of all the other ways he impacts the game on the defensive end. His help defense in particular is otherworldly.

[SpursFan86]

It is a little weird to me that he would put Leonard 2nd following that rationale though and then Bogut 3rd who barely plays half a game, which is equivalent to him playing 35MPG for about 55-60 regular season games.

Who else would he choose? Tony Allen is a possibility, but he's only played 63 games this year, and he doesn't play many minutes either (26 per game). DeAndre Jordan should be nowhere near the conversation even if he has played 35 mpg for 80 games. Gobert is a possibility I guess, but he doesn't play many minutes either (26 per game).

There aren't too many options once you get past the obvious candidates. Bogut makes up for his lack of minutes by being arguably the best defender in the league while on the court.

[MI21]

Who else would he choose? Tony Allen is a possibility, but he's only played 63 games this year, and he doesn't play many minutes either (26 per game). DeAndre Jordan should be nowhere near the conversation even if he has played 35 mpg for 80 games. Gobert is a possibility I guess, but he doesn't play many minutes either (26 per game).

There aren't too many options once you get past the obvious candidates. Bogut makes up for his lack of minutes by being arguably the best defender in the league while on the court.

I agree with your analysis of all the players you mentioned. Just seems weird that there is a different rationale from him for first place compared to second and third.

In his mind Green isn't as good as Leonard, but played significantly more minutes so he gets the nod. Obviously DeAndre Jordan isn't as good Andrew Bogut, but he has played significantly more minutes, so why isn't the same rationale applied? Nitpicking really, I like Lowe.

[apalisoc_9]

I'd rather kawhi get an ALL-NBA award than DPOY though.

[SpursFan86]

In his mind Green isn't as good as Leonard, but played significantly more minutes so he gets the nod. Obviously DeAndre Jordan isn't as good Andrew Bogut, but he has played significantly more minutes, so why isn't the same rationale applied? Nitpicking really, I like Lowe.

Because the gap in Green vs. Leonard isn't as big as the gap between Bogut vs. DeAndre.

Draymond isn't THAT much worse of a defender compared to Kawhi. Kawhi might be better, but Draymond is relatively close to him. DeAndre Jordan is nowhere near as good as Bogut defensively. DJ is really overrated on that end...he's a good defender, but nothing special. Certainly not worthy of any DPOTY consideration.

[Godbama]

:lmao:married::flag:

[SpursFan86]

I'd rather kawhi get an ALL-NBA award than DPOY though.

I think he's a lock for 1st team All-Defense and, at the least, 3rd team All-NBA. He could maybe get 2nd team All-NBA, but I wouldn't bet on it.

[cjw]

I think Lowe might have gone Kawhi if he had not gone Pop for COY. Hard to pick two Spurs and one Warrior this year.

[Raven]

But Draymond is a great isolation defender too...he gives up just .57 ppp in isolation situations, which is in the 93rd percentile and is the best on Golden State.
he never guards the teams best player, i haven't looked up but if he gets isolated, that happens with a shitty pf or a center.. doesn't really count. Will get exposed in the play offs, you can bet on it. If you isolate a player from defending the teams best players he looks better than he actually is.

[Raven]

I think Lowe might have gone Kawhi if he had not gone Pop for COY. Hard to pick two Spurs and one Warrior this year.

which is obviously just him trying to justify his shitty pick, by choosing pop in what has probably been his worst year.

[cjw]

which is obviously just him trying to justify his shitty pick, by choosing pop in what has probably been his worst year.

Not picking Kerr might be a jab at a certain ESPN colleague (i.e., any competent coach could have won at least mid-50s with that roster)

[Expert]

None of this ever matters until a Spurs player is in the running, then suddenly it's a grand honor.

[Seventyniner]

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/nba-awards-ballot-part-2-putting-in-a-team-effort/

Part 2 is up. Spurs mentioned: Kawhi Leonard 3rd team All-NBA and 1st team All-Defense, Tim Duncan 3rd team All-NBA, Danny Green 2nd team All-Defense.

Lowe also advocates for a 1 point guard, 2 wing, 2 big ballot system instead of the antiquated 2 guard, 2 forward, 1 center approach.

Why is there no All-Offense team? Is it because All-NBA teams and MVP votes heavily skew towards offense already?

[mingus]

Wings don't ever seem to win it. Will probably be the case still, even though I think he's at lleast as impact full as anyone.

What I think is perfectly reasonable and would be a true travesty if it didnt happen, is to see both Danny Green & KL with defensive team honors. Green should be on either the first or second team all defense. Dude doesn't get enough love for his defense when there's maybe 3 or 4 guys out on the wing that are arguably better--KL, Tony Allen, James come to mind as the only guys I'd pick over him. James, though doesn't always take the toughest assignments so can save his legs for offense, which has to count for something IMO.

[Obstructed_View]

None of this ever matters until a Spurs player is in the running, then suddenly it's a grand honor.

Since Tim Duncan has never won the award, though he's clearly been the best defender in the league several times, your post is more true than you intend it to be. The last Spur to win it was David Robinson, and he only had to average 4.5 blocks, 12 rebounds, and 3 steals per game to get it.

[apalisoc_9]

Leonard getting an All-NBA team award will be huge for officiating purposes, IMO.

We need Leonard to win All-NBA and DPOY for that reason alone...

Every advantage counts.

[SpursFan86]

588347287845371904

:lol

[apalisoc_9]

588347287845371904

:lol

I wonder if he read spurstalk.

:lol

Like I said, I don't agree with him but there's no reason to hate IMO..Lowe is one of the best basketball guys out there.

[RodNIc91]

Hopefully Tim makes all-D, at least..I don't expect DG to make it, Lowe will probably be one of the few that votes for him(along with other new-media, metrics connoisseurs)..

I expect first-team to be:

G Paul(:lol)
G Allen
F Leonard
F Green
C Jordan(unfortunately)

2nd team will probably be:
G ?
G ?
F
F Davis(he will get it, poor choice, overrated defender IMO)
C Bogut

Hopefully Lebron doesn't get the Kobe treatment and get in:lol..wouldn't be surprised if Thompson or Iggy make it because they're Warriors

I thought all-nba teams were chosen by coaches and so forth

[Obstructed_View]

I wonder if he read spurstalk.


Clearly he does not, since the accusations are more that the Warriors are the sexy pick or that his rationale for basing it on minutes played is stupid. All things being equal, you can look at minutes, but Leonard has been so much better than everyone else the last six weeks that it's ridiculous.

It's also pretty stupid of Lowe to act like he's doing anyone a favor by putting Green and Duncan on those teams. It's not fan voting. Did he have the option to leave either one off those teams? Doubtful.

And, great as Pop is, there's probably not a Spurs fan alive that thinks he deserves COY over Bud, Kidd or Kerr.

[wildchild]

Kerr is in bed with the media tbh.

ESPN guys agree.
"Sweeping"
588401225428680704

[UZER]

ESPN guys agree.
"Sweeping"
588401225428680704

:lol Did anyone expect anything different? They want Twitter followers, Facebook likes, etc. They're pandering to the casual fans.

[rasuo214]

Draymond isn't the worst DPOY pick, as long as it isn't DeAndre Jordan. Personally I'd have Kawhi and Gobert ahead of Draymond though.

[DesignatedT]

Broussard released his ballot today.

Voted DPOY - 1.Draymond 2.DeAndre 3. Kawhi

Did have TD and Kawhi all NBA second team though.

[Obstructed_View]

Draymond isn't the worst DPOY pick, as long as it isn't DeAndre Jordan. Personally I'd have Kawhi and Gobert ahead of Draymond though.
Green isn't the worst pick, just the second best pick on his own team.

[Brazil]

Leonard getting an All-NBA team award will be huge for officiating purposes, IMO.

We need Leonard to win All-NBA and DPOY for that reason alone...

Every advantage counts.

To choose, I'd prefer All NBA than DPOY

this award became some award for specialized dudes with limited arsenal: Noah, Chandler, Gasol a bit less but still more recognized for Def than O. Leonard is two way players not anymore a Defensive specialist to be compared with Green or Bogut or Gobert imo fwiw

[apalisoc_9]

To choose, I'd prefer All NBA than DPOY

this award became some award for specialized dudes with limited arsenal: Noah, Chandler, Gasol a bit less but still more recognized for Def than O. Leonard is two way players not anymore a Defensive specialist to be compared with Green or Bogut or Gobert imo fwiw

yeah ALL-NBA is far more important.

Thankfully Kawhi is getting some 2nd team votes so that should at least get him a third ALL-NBA...

I'd love td to get an award but the important thing is Kawhi because TD has enough officiating respect.

DPOY though will give kawhi more room to be aggressive on the defensive end.

[Seventyniner]

Green isn't the worst pick, just the second best pick on his own team.

Lowe at least is consistent in valuing total minutes played as part of the equation. Bogut is more irreplacable as a defender, though.

[Brazil]

yeah ALL-NBA is far more important.

Thankfully Kawhi is getting some 2nd team votes so that should at least get him a third ALL-NBA...

I'd love td to get an award but the important thing is Kawhi because TD has enough officiating respect.

DPOY though will give kawhi more room to be aggressive on the defensive end.

agreed

plus the fact it's a confidence booster eventho kawhi does not seem to need some

[Killakobe81]

Y'all really get bent over irrelevant stuff. Kiwi going after consecutive Finals MVP's which only the best of the best have done not even Tim has pulled it off. Let Green have that award it means little.

[Killakobe81]

588347287845371904

:lol

Lowe having to defend himself after giving spurs mad love is hilarious, tbh ...

[Obstructed_View]

Y'all really get bent over irrelevant stuff. Kiwi going after consecutive Finals MVP's which only the best of the best have done not even Tim has pulled it off. Let Green have that award it means little.

People discussing things in a discussion forum! The nerve of some people!

[TD 21]

Lowe can pretend he's not biased all he wants, but last time I checked, he's got connections with a lot of people in the league, just like the rest of the media. The difference between him and a lot of them, is his are more discreet and subtle.

Like anyone who knows the game, he obviously has an appreciation for the Spurs, but he's not a fan, like he is of the Thunder, Grizzlies (mostly because of his obsession with Gasol) and Warriors.