Are we beginning to face reality?

[Malik Hairston]

The Spurs of 2013 and 2014 were historic teams in regards to roster construction..

Tony Parker was a star in 2013 and Kawhi was beginning to develop into a star in 2014, but for the most part, the Spurs won a title and should have had another with a roster that was entirely centered around a system + role players playing their roles at an extremely high level(Green, Diaw, Splitter, Mills, etc)..

The NBA is a superstar's league, it's rare to win a championship without star players..most of the time, having just 1 star isn't even sufficient, unless you have a generational player(2003 Duncan, 1994 Olajuwon, 2013 Lebron, etc)..Kawhi is a top 10 player in this league, but he's not there yet, obviously, nor does the team fully understand how to utilize him, it's still early..

This forum is blaming role players like Danny Green, Splitter, Parker, Ginobili, etc, but is it simply time to face reality that the Spurs formula of winning without multiple stars just isn't sustainable? Especially considering the mileage of the past few years?

[Lerojo]

Reality is you and a few others here are shitposting spammers tbh.

[RD2191]

I agree OP.

[ElNono]

Ignorance is bliss, tbh... we'll deal with reality over the summer, IMO

[Malik Hairston]

Ignorance is bliss, tbh... we'll deal with reality over the summer, IMO

I know you don't want Aldridge, but this team really needs another star IMO..

[ElNono]

I know you don't want Aldridge, but this team really needs another star IMO..

I said I take him, beggars can't be choosers, etc... I just hope it doesn't costs Green and we don't end up being the Guests 2.0...

Portland is funny. How many posters here were wet over Batum, Lillard, LMA... they're a failure. I know Stotts is a hack, but still.

[cd98]

Tbh, Spurs are playing one of the toughest teams in the playoffs and the Spurs don't have HCA. They are tied 2-2. If they had beat NO, they'd be on the verge of sweeping Mavs and everyone would be talking 6. It's just bad luck in seeding, but Spurs are still in this, they just have to duke it out with a team that has the best offense in the NBA.

[Malik Hairston]

Tbh, Spurs are playing one of the toughest teams in the playoffs and the Spurs don't have HCA. They are tied 2-2. If they had beat NO, they'd be on the verge of sweeping Mavs and everyone would be talking 6. It's just bad luck in seeding, but Spurs are still in this, they just have to duke it out with a team that has the best offense in the NBA.

They were going to have to play against an elite team at some point, though..

And the Pelicans game was essentially a playoff game, too..

At some point, the unconventional system and design of these Spurs was going to die, they can't rely on role players to play above their heads forever..especially with Kawhi's style of play, which is more conventional and traditional "star player" ball..

[crc21209]

The Spurs can still be that machine they were last year, if the coach gives them the proper chance to do so. Going away from Green on Paul and giving more minutes to guys like Bonner and Belinelli and putting Parker on Paul for long stretches isnt going to get it done. Smarter, more focused decisions with his lineups and matchups could make things alot better for this team...

[DieHardSpursFan1537]

Gutless worm is what you are

[Malik Hairston]

Last year's team still had Ginobili creating at a high level, it seems like people have forgotten that, tbh..

Parker also wasn't anywhere near as bad as he currently is, he was inconsistent, but he still had flashes of his old self and games where he was still able to penetrate + dish..

Realistically, though, winning without superstars requires perfect basketball, which is what we saw from the Spurs throughout last year's run..it's extremely difficult to replicate, especially without the motivation they had last year..

[ElNono]

At the end of the day, it's a make or miss league, tbh... you can have the beautiful ball movement, but if you can't knock wide open looks, then you're screwed.

[cd98]

They were going to have to play against an elite team at some point, though..

And the Pelicans game was essentially a playoff game, too..

At some point, the unconventional system and design of these Spurs was going to die, they can't rely on role players to play above their heads forever..especially with Kawhi's style of play, which is more conventional and traditional "star player" ball..

Yeah, but if the Spurs were in the second round at 2-2 against Clippers with HCA, no one would be starting this kind of thread. Way too early to write off this team. Clippers and Spurs are 2 of top 5 teams in the NBA. Just bc of injuries that they are stuck playing each other in 1st round.

[Malik Hairston]

Spurs can still beat the Clippers, but then they potentially have to play Houston and GS without HCA, too..

[siraulo23]

TP needs to play like an all star and tiago has to get in shape, thats what the spurs are missing

Parker doesnt have to score but the spurs need him to attack/cause the opposing defense to scramble. Case in point game 3, tp moved well but didnt score but the shooters got all the looks they wanted

[Capt Bringdown]

Parker is a but a shadow of his former self, and so are the Spurs. First round cannon-fodder for the likes of Rivers and his Clips, unless we see an unlikely turnaround going forward.

[ElNono]

Spurs can still beat the Clippers, but then they potentially have to play Houston and GS without HCA, too..

And then France plays who? Gonna be a busy summer, tbh

[apalisoc_9]

They were going to have to play against an elite team at some point, though..

And the Pelicans game was essentially a playoff game, too..

At some point, the unconventional system and design of these Spurs was going to die, they can't rely on role players to play above their heads forever..especially with Kawhi's style of play, which is more conventional and traditional "star player" ball..

I am going to have to disagree with OP. Granted, I don't think this team has enough talent outside of Kawhi to win this year..Hopefully, I am wrong.

Kawhi can get his 17-18fga whilst moving the ball, they just need to rewrite their offensive philosophies and get ball movement that isn't overly reliant on the PnR and ball penetration. The Hawks move the ball really well, but they use the post for sets way more than the spurs who use the post the conventional way. This won't happen this season though and it's a dexision Pop has to make and implement in the offseason and pre-season.

This team badly needs another 3 and D player though. I get taking green out of the game, but it's important the alternative knows how play defense.

[K...]

I agree. It's a case of, give them the benefit of the doubt until reality hits us. There's three games left and the margin from the two teams is so slight. Maybe Parker can get healthy. Maybe Danny grows some balls. Lots of things. Maybe they are just tired

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Not quite yet.. After G5 we will see

[dabom]

Parker healthy? Doesn't he have like 4 to 8 injuries?

[Arc]

if verde decides to show up, we'll win this series. and the rest of them too.

[K...]

To apo, if kawhi wasn't hurt maybe we implement him into the offense better. I just feel so much went wrong this season that we can't judge the talent on this team fairly.

Maybe if they knew Parker would never recover cojo would be ready. He's to small tho, so trading mills for a prospect would be better. But this is hindsight. We got the best team events allowed. It's been a fun season even if three games are left. We got our season, the Lakers awful season, okc sucking, and bud getting serious achievements with them hawks.


If the spurs go down this place will be hawks talk. God bless

[crc21209]

Spurs can still beat the Clippers, but then they potentially have to play Houston and GS without HCA, too..

Am I the only one here who thinks the Spurs (if they advance) would have a somewhat easier time against Houston in the 2nd round? They dont have a true PG, especially an elite PG like Paul. They also dont play anywhere near the defense that the Clippers can play.

[DarrinS]

This same group of players curb stomped the Clips in game 3, with the big 3 playing minor roles. The just didn't play well today (other than Kawhi).

[Malik Hairston]

This same group of players curb stomped the Clips in game 3, with the big 3 playing minor roles. The just didn't play well today (other than Kawhi).

That's the point, though..role players are role players for a reason, you can't expect them to consistently play well on offense every game..

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Am I the only one here who thinks the Spurs (if they advance) would have a somewhat easier time against Houston in the 2nd round? They dont have a true PG, especially an elite PG like Paul. They also dont play anywhere near the defense that the Clippers can play.

Houston sucks

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

That's the point, though..role players are role players for a reason, you can't expect them to consistently play well on offense every game..
Truth bomb.. It's going to come down to the big 3 and Leonard... A couple of which are pretty much role players now.. We will see in game 5.

[midnightpulp]

The Spurs system is still top notch. We have to remember that Clippers were banged up all year, and even with their lack of depth, they're a top 3 team in the league, and would've won 60 plus games had they been healthy all year.

I've maintained that our depth will eventually wear the Clippers down, but if Tiago, Tony, and Manu hit a wall this series with injuries/age, then we're no deeper, but this still doesn't indict the Spurs system. Tiago being gimped really hurts us against this team, since Duncan is obviously too slow to effectively guard the pick-n-roll. And if Manu can't get his groove back, that's a huge blow. Without his playmaking ability and pesky defense, the Spurs relatively deep SG rotation turns into joke, especially when Danny Green is off.

The Spurs model is sustainable (Star+Semi-Star+Great depth playing selfless basketball), but the model in its current state is not sustainable since the Big 3 are way past their primes.

A lot of people don't want LMA, but we're going to need to roll the dice on a scoring PF at some point since Duncan has 2 years, tops, left. Danny Green is a keeper, and is a "star" player when you look at overall floor impact, so we're good there. Hopefully Tiago remains healthy. Diaw can play til he's 38 with his kind of game. And we know Parker isn't absolutely vital, so Mills can cover for him. The biggest hurdle in our retool will be finding a suitable replacement for Ginobili, but our window is by no means shut should we flame out this year. Kawhi and Green (if we can afford the latter) are two very nice building blocks moving forward. We just need to complement them with a "poor man's version" of the Big 3, and we should stay in the hunt for years to come.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

^ foreign bigs without a shot don't last long in this league. I don't expect Splitter to be around for another 5 years... And Diaw's shot has regressed. He's still a good player, but I can't see him around any longer than Manu/Timmy... Maybe one year after, tops. He might stay on the team, but as a 11-12th man.. Kyle Washington will take over his role after a while.

[tmtcsc]

Just fucking stop with these threads already. The series is tied 2-2. Both teams have shown they can win on the road. Spurs will need to do it again.

[midnightpulp]

^ foreign bigs without a shot don't last long in this league. I don't expect Splitter to be around for another 5 years... And Diaw's shot has regressed. He's still a good player, but I can't see him around any longer than Manu/Timmy... Maybe one year after, tops. He might stay on the team, but as a 11-12th man.. Kyle Washington will take over his role after a while.

Splitter is an excellent defender, his biggest asset, and is mobile enough to stay with Griffins and Dirks of the league (though not in this series, since he's banged up). He's also a capable passer and decent scorer. This is why you need a scoring PF alongside of him. My only concern with Splitter is if his nagging injuries get the best of him and send him to an early retirement.

Diaw's asset is his passing and ability to kickstart the 2nd unit's offense with his playmaking. He can remain a valuable bench player for a few years to come.

[tmtcsc]

That's the point, though..role players are role players for a reason, you can't expect them to consistently play well on offense every game..

We can expect them to play consistently better than the Clippers' bench. One of the biggest reasons they won today was because of Austin fucking Rivers. There are some who think he quite possibly the worst player on an NBA roster. He played great for him today but there is no reason to game plan around the guy. Its called recession to the mean.

[BatManu20]

Obviously health & age are working against us right now, but we also have to remember we're playing a team in the 1st round that could easily make it to the Western conference Finals..

[TD 21]

I don't think it's the lack of a superstar(s), it's the mileage, as I've been saying all season. This was also the main reason why I was and am convinced that they're going to lose this series.

You could see it right from the start of the season, that they weren't the same, just like you could with the Heat the year before. All the requisite excuses/reasons were made, but at some point it became clear that it wasn't injuries or lack of motivation. Even when they picked it up in the last 25 games, they didn't do it in the way they had the previous few years. It was mostly Leonard fueled, instead of team wide destruction.

Put the '13 or '14 Spurs in '15 and I'm confident they'd win the championship.

[apalisoc_9]

I don't think it's the lack of a superstar(s), it's the mileage, as I've been saying all season. This was also the main reason why I was and am convinced that they're going to lose this series.

You could see it right from the start of the season, that they weren't the same, just like you could with the Heat the year before. All the requisite excuses/reasons were made, but at some point it became clear that it wasn't injuries or lack of motivation. Even when they picked it up in the last 25 games, they didn't do it in the way they had the previous few years. It was mostly Leonard fueled, instead of team wide destruction.

Put the '13 or '14 Spurs in '15 and I'm confident they'd win the championship.

I somewhat agree with this.

Diaw, Mills, Leonard, TD, Green do at least have something left in the tank and Leonard is hungry..Probably the hungriest I've seen him play in the last 4 years.

Manu, parker, tiago, look absolutely awful though.

Would be a miracle if for some reason a 23 year old carries this team that barely can get up on it's own feet to play...

[dabom]

I somewhat agree with this.

Diaw, Mills, Leonard, TD, Green do at least have something left in the tank and Leonard is hungry..Probably the hungriest I've seen him play in the last 4 years.

Manu, parker, tiago, look absolutely awful though.

Would be a miracle if for some reason a 23 year old carries this team that barely can get up on it's own feet to play...

:lmao

[Johnny RIngo]

Am I the only one here who thinks the Spurs (if they advance) would have a somewhat easier time against Houston in the 2nd round? They dont have a true PG, especially an elite PG like Paul.

Unfortunately, neither do we. Our $14 million dollar "star" point is giving us Prigioni-like production.


They also dont play anywhere near the defense that the Clippers can play.

Clippers were ranked 16th in the league in defense. Rockets are ranked 8th.


Just fucking stop with these threads already. The series is tied 2-2. Both teams have shown they can win on the road. Spurs will need to do it again.

Spurs needed a ridiculous 28/11 game from Duncan to win on the road. That's not gonna happen again, not from a 39 year old. This is why it's impossible to win a title from a lower seed - the only team that did win this way needed superstar games from Hakeem every night(especially in road games).

[dabom]

Kawhi is going to have to go higher than 2003 Duncan tbh.

[apalisoc_9]

I said a few weeks ago..A huge NO to Gasol.

But I'm seriously reconsidering. Three years of Gasol would be great...IMO.

[TD 21]

I somewhat agree with this.

Diaw, Mills, Leonard, TD, Green do at least have something left in the tank and Leonard is hungry..Probably the hungriest I've seen him play in the last 4 years.

Manu, parker, tiago, look absolutely awful though.

Would be a miracle if for some reason a 23 year old carries this team that barely can get up on it's own feet to play...

Diaw has mostly been awful too and as well as Leonard is playing, he's not capable of pulling an '03 Duncan and dragging a team to a championship that otherwise has no business winning one.

[TDfan2007]

Yeah...our guys just haven't found the mental edge necessary to win a title. The whole season was a search for it, and it looked like we found it during that win streak, but then we played 3 straight subpar games to finish the season and continue to be inconsistent. The Spurs right now are a Jekyll and Hyde team. You have no idea if you're going to get the "beautiful game" version or the "miss half of our FTs and make stupid plays all game" version. The team is talented, the system is solid, but the parts are starting to wear/fall apart.

But further to OP's point, the problem with the Spurs this season hasn't been a lack of stars, it's been just a general lack of consistency. I don't agree that we should just assume role players to be sporadic in their production. Role players are role players usually due to talent limitations, not inconsistency (ex. Joseph is consistent, but doesn't have much talent). IMO we're not losing because of a lack of star power, we're losing because we only have 2 consistent key players (Kawhi and Timmy)...that's it. Everyone else has been erratic at best. Hard to win like that unless said players go nuclear (Timmy in game 2 and Kawhi in game 3).

[100%duncan]

We are a game away from sweeping the mavs or from a 3-1 lead against the Clipps. Hard to judge since it's a match-up league, you can get lucky(houston-memphis) with seedings but in the end still inferior to a team like they are to GSW and Spurs but you can be the Spurs who gets unlucky with seedings but is one of the few contenders.

[mingus]

Spurs couldn't throw the ball in the ocean tonight, and I think they played without desperation. They just didn't have the fight in them. They prolly thought they had the series in the bag after the Clips wet the bed big time in game 3.

I think the Spurs win in 6.

[boutons_deux]

"It's just bad luck in seeding"

losing to NYK and NOR in the last weeks of the season to lose HCA, then playing like shit in games 1,4 ain't bad luck.

[spurraider21]

Kawhi is going to have to go higher than 2003 Duncan tbh.
lol no.

2003 duncan didn't have a teammate nearly as good as 2015 Duncan

[therealtruth]

Unfortunately, neither do we. Our $14 million dollar "star" point is giving us Prigioni-like production.



Clippers were ranked 16th in the league in defense. Rockets are ranked 8th.



Spurs needed a ridiculous 28/11 game from Duncan to win on the road. That's not gonna happen again, not from a 39 year old. This is why it's impossible to win a title from a lower seed - the only team that did win this way needed superstar games from Hakeem every night(especially in road games).

They won both games on the road against the Heat against the Heat in the Finals. I'm hoping that team shows up. We get to see if they have the heart of a champion.

[Cklbmk]

I said I take him, beggars can't be choosers, etc... I just hope it doesn't costs Green and we don't end up being the Guests 2.0...

Portland is funny. How many posters here were wet over Batum, Lillard, LMA... they're a failure. I know Stotts is a hack, but still.

It shouldn't end up costing Green. There are a lot of scenarios to create max cap space while retaining Green.
The only thing that could cause Green to leave is him wanting to leave or someone offering him a max contract or damn near it

I think Aldridge ends up costing Patty Mills tho

[Johnny RIngo]

lol no.

2003 duncan didn't have a teammate nearly as good as 2015 Duncan

2003 Duncan didn't have to win three straight series on the road just to make the Finals.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Am I the only one here who thinks the Spurs (if they advance) would have a somewhat easier time against Houston in the 2nd round? They dont have a true PG, especially an elite PG like Paul. They also dont play anywhere near the defense that the Clippers can play.

I absolutely agree. I keep saying this. For some reason everyone on this site has an irrational fear of Houston. If the Spurs beat the Clippers they will beat Houston in 5 or 6. Howard and Josh Smith are inferior players to the duo of Blake and Jordan imo. And btw they are both horrid at FTs and they both meltdown and make absolutely horrid decisions when it counts. As much heat as Paul takes he is a way better leader, defender, and creator than Harden. I know Harden is just a SG. But that doesn't change anything.

McHale is a mediocre coach, Rivers might be overrated but he's better than McHale.

Blake Griffin getting hurt was a blessing in disguise imo. The team had to play better D and execute better. They couldn't just monkeyball. The Clippers are absolutely the better team.

San Antonio just has to fight through this one.

[Raven]

i don't think the system is to blame. The problem, if anything, is that we have gone away from the system. Playing belinelli big minutes, benching cojo for no reason, going kawhi or tony iso all the time, giving danny scraps every 10 minutes.. that's not how we are supposed to play. We are supposed to have the best defensive lineup against the starters, and then kill them with the bench offense when the opponent's bench is in.

[Raven]

oh and we'd sweep houston.

[Old School 44]

Not a Parker hater, but he's bought into the false notion that if he's not scoring or a leading contributor, the Spurs have no chance.
Don't get me wrong, it's not all on Parker, Pop needs to make adjustments.

I think they should go through Kawhi almost every time down. He did a great job with the double team. Not sure why on some possessions he just stands in the corner like a spot up 3-pt shooter.

Not that Kawhi needs to shoot it all the time, but he gets the defense moving, creating oportunities for others.

[Mugen]

This team has just been inconsistent all season, especially on the road. Injuries + more retard losses than your usual Spurs season (Utah, Lakers, Knicks, Detroit, etc.) have doomed their playoff chances...

Championship teams don't lose that final game in New Orleans after moving up to the 2 seed and they most certainly do not lose a game like yesterday after lucking out from another chokejob in game 2...

Again, it's been a tough season but anything after last year was icing. We got to see more TD and Kawhi blossom into a legit franchise guy you can start building around. I would have been ecstatic if you told me that in preseason tbh.....

No shame in losing to a hungrier, better coached team with two top 10 players. This was the Warriors season anyways....

[EVAY]

MOTIVATION AND FOCUS

Last year, we had both in spades, and as much as we tend to forget it after the fact, there were plenty of times during last year's playoffs (at least before game 3 of the Finals) where people were saying the Spurs were done.

But the team really really wanted it last year like no time ever before.

This year, other teams, like the Warriors and the Clippers, seem to want it more. The Clippers in general and Chris Paul in particular have been called out for not getting beyond the second round ever. This year, Doc and Chris Paul really seem to feel they have something to prove, kind of like we did last year.

I believe that we CAN win again, but I acknowledge that part of the 'reality' that we may be facing is that last year 5 was so satisfying it seems to be difficult to get that level of focus and motivation back again.

But I will continue to hope and root for us!

[EVAY]

Am I the only one here who thinks the Spurs (if they advance) would have a somewhat easier time against Houston in the 2nd round? They dont have a true PG, especially an elite PG like Paul. They also dont play anywhere near the defense that the Clippers can play.

I agree with this.

[K...]

No shame in losing to a hungrier, better coached team with two top 10 players. This was the hawks season anyways....

[703 Spurz]

The Spurs of 2013 and 2014 were historic teams in regards to roster construction..

Tony Parker was a star in 2013 and Kawhi was beginning to develop into a star in 2014, but for the most part, the Spurs won a title and should have had another with a roster that was entirely centered around a system + role players playing their roles at an extremely high level(Green, Diaw, Splitter, Mills, etc)..

The NBA is a superstar's league, it's rare to win a championship without star players..most of the time, having just 1 star isn't even sufficient, unless you have a generational player(2003 Duncan, 1994 Olajuwon, 2013 Lebron, etc)..Kawhi is a top 10 player in this league, but he's not there yet, obviously, nor does the team fully understand how to utilize him, it's still early..

This forum is blaming role players like Danny Green, Splitter, Parker, Ginobili, etc, but is it simply time to face reality that the Spurs formula of winning without multiple stars just isn't sustainable? Especially considering the mileage of the past few years?

The Spurs have never had top dollar to give to free agents nor have they ever had a high pick in the draft. To sustain their 50+ games despite all of this is fucking grand.