Finley or Barry? The 3rd Swingman

[Nikos]

You know one of them is likely to get the bulk of the minutes as the first and primary swingman off the bench. The question is who will deserve and get the bulk of those minutes? One will likely get 24-25mpg, and the other at best 12-14mpg.


http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/PHOTOFILE/AACT019.jpg

PROS
-Good 3pt shooter
-Capable scorer
-Decent size and probably can guard the stronger and longer threes better than Barry
-Not turnover prone

CONS
-Offensive and defensive production went down last season (possibly due to AGE)
-Not really a gifted passer like Barry





http://www.photofile.com/Photos/Photos_Of_The_Day/05_01_06/04BarryBrent.jpg

PROS
-Has experience in the Spurs system
-Excellent passer/ball handler
-Has great outside shooting potential in this system (can improve his %)

CONS
-Mediocre defender, not really apt to guard long 3's or the superscoring 2's of the league, even in limited minutes
-AGE: Seemed tentative last season and he is only getting older -- either he adapts quickly or his age will catch up to him soon and he won't be able to produce like the Spurs need him to

The sings point to Finley getting more minutes if all the Spurs swingman are healthy this season (hopefully they will be).

So what do you think about this? Is Barry capable of improving in this system enough to be as good as Finley might be? Is it even worth thinking about, or is Finley pretty much the obvious choice?

[Dre_7]

Finley>>Barry

Its that simple.

[Leetonidas]

FINLEY IS BOWEN'S BACKUP!

God, when will you guys realize that.

[Kori Ellis]

We always thought the Spurs would pick one of Barry/Devin last season to get the bulk of the backup minutes too. But in actuality for the most part of the season (especially prior to the All-Star break), they both got around 20 mpg.

I don't think they have to pick one or the other. Let them battle it out on the court. Whoever performs, get playing time.

[Kori Ellis]

FINLEY IS BOWEN'S BACKUP!

God, when will you guys realize that.

Ummm.. actually both players will backup both Manu and Bruce.

[Guru of Nothing]

Additionally, Barry survived the Pop gauntlet last season. If you buy into the theory that which does not kill you makes you stronger, I expect a stronger Barry this year.

Likewise, Finely still has to cross the abyss to fit in with the Spurs. I expect he will do so, but way back when, I expected Steve Smith and Hedo to adapt too, and obviously they did not.

[Nikos]

We always thought the Spurs would pick one of Barry/Devin last season to get the bulk of the backup minutes too. But in actuality for the most part of the season (especially prior to the All-Star break), they both got around 20 mpg.

I don't think they have to pick one or the other. Let them battle it out on the court. Whoever performs, get playing time.

Of course it did make things easy for Barry when Devin got hurt. If no one gets hurt I get the feeling Pop will play one more than the other by at least 4-5 minutes. I would be suprised if they played nearly identical minutes.


Additionally, Barry survived the Pop gauntlet last season. If you buy into the theory that which does not kill you makes you stronger, I expect a stronger Barry this year.

Likewise, Finely still has to cross the abyss to fit in with the Spurs. I expect he will do so, but way back when, I expected Steve Smith and Hedo to adapt too, and obviously they did not.

Well Hedo and Smith actually did reasonable in the regular season no? Hedo was pretty good in the second half of the 0304 season. Of course the playoffs are an entirely different story.....

[Kori Ellis]

Of course it did make things easy for Barry when Devin got hurt. If no one gets hurt I get the feeling Pop will play one more than the other by at least 4-5 minutes. I would be suprised if they played nearly identical minutes.

Well they won't play identical minutes for the whole season, because the rotations get shortened late in the season and into the playoffs. But barring one of them really really sucking, they'll probably get relatively the same minutes until Late Feb/Early March. (Or maybe Barry gets traded)

[Nikos]

Well they won't play identical minutes for the whole season, because the rotations get shortened late in the season and into the playoffs. But barring one of them really really sucking, they'll probably get relatively the same minutes until Late Feb/Early March. (Or maybe Barry gets traded)

When the rotations get shortened, who do you think will get the shorter end of the stick, and why?

[picnroll]

Bowen's averaged abot 32 minutes the last three years. Think they might cut back on his minutes, at least unitl closer to the end of the season?

[Kori Ellis]

When the rotations get shortened, who do you think will get the shorter end of the stick, and why?

I have no idea. I'd have to see them play for the next four or five months first. Finley is coming off ankle surgery. He also had hamstring problems on and off. For all I know, he could have trouble staying healthy. I have no idea how he's going to react as a bench player either. Has he ever been a reserve in his lifetime?

I'm not a big Barry fan, but he did some good things in the post season. The depth is good. It will be enjoyable watching the battle for minutes this season. Not just Barry/Finley, but also Nazr/Rasho/Oberto.

[E20]

So far, Finley is unproven in the Spurs system. I expect for Pop to put him Midway through quarters see how he is. If it were up to me I'd give Barry the bulk because:

-Experienced w/Spurs
-Good Passer
-I'm sure of it he can shoot the three. Just needs to clear some demons.

If Finely shows something then I'd slowly start to increase Finley's mintues and as that goes depending on how Finley does and Barry does adjust the mintues accordingly. The mintues would probably go like this for Brent and Mike at the start of the season.

Brent: 26 MPG
Mike 20 MPG

[Solid D]

FINLEY IS BOWEN'S BACKUP!

God, when will you guys realize that.

Kori sent you back to school TexasBalla but here is some support for what she is trying to tell you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swingman
Swingman
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Swingman is a basketball term denoting a player who can play both the small forward and shooting guard positions. Whereas 6'9" Larry Bird was a natural small forward and 6'6" Michael Jordan was a natural shooting guard, some versatile players such as 6'8½" LeBron James can "swing" between the two positions.

The "swingman" concept first came into vogue in the late 1970's and early 1980's, when star players such as George "Iceman" Gervin defied traditional pigeonholing into the 2 or 3 position. The best swingmen use their "in-between" height to exploit defensive mismatches: they will run past bigger players, and post up or shoot over smaller players. Scottie Pippen was another notable swingman, and some of the most popular players in the NBA today are natural swingmen, including All-Stars Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, and Manu Ginobili.

[Mr. Body]

I believe Barry played about 20 mpg last year and I'd expect him to get about this same this year. Finley is a question mark but will get at least 18 minutes behind Bowen alone, plus some at the SG. I'd expect him in the 20-24 minute range.

[timvp]

Like I say every year, I prefer Pop to roll with three swingmen. When he tries to juggle four, that's when the team struggles. Last year when he tried to give Barry and Devin time, it made both of them play worse.

Honestly, I don't care if it's Finley, Barry or even Devin, but I hope Pop doesn't try to get too fancy. Look at the championship teams ... Jaren Jackson was the only swingman off the bench in '99, Manu Ginobili was the only swingman off the bench in '03 and Brent Barry was the only swingman off the bench in '05.

For the Spurs to win and win big, Pop must realize he can't juggle four. My money would be on Finley taking over that position, but it could very easily be Barry or a re-signed Devin.

Whoever it is will get a chance to play 25+ minutes per night in the playoffs. In the regular season, if Pop runs with three, the player off the bench could actually average 30-32 MPG.

[Marcus Bryant]

Finley, which is why his signing was huge. The Spurs have never had a player of his magnitude coming off the bench on the perimeter and yes, that includes Saint Manu. Finley is going to be tantamount to a 6th starter. If all goes well he will be a serious candidate for the 6th Man of the Year award. It's unfortunate that he's apparently only under contract for one season, but I suspect that come next summer the Spurs will not have a problem with re-signing him...if he wants to stay.

[Nikos]

Finley, which is why his signing was huge. The Spurs have never had a player of his magnitude coming off the bench
...... Finley is going to be tantamount to a 6th starter. If all goes well he will be a serious candidate for the 6th Man of the Year award.

Isn't this a little too much? 6MOY? The guy is getting up there in age and is coming off surgery. Do you really think he is the same player that played for Dallas 2-3 years ago? Sure he might be able to put up efficient numbers in 25mpg, but 6MOY? You really think he can be more effective than Manu or Malik in the 0203 championship run?

[boutons]

"his magnitude"

... as has been repeated many times, he's already 5 years into his scoring decline. He can have big points games, but, as seen in in the last playoffs, he disappears more than he scores, and he won't get enough shots with the Spurs.

I think people are setting themselves up to be disappointed by Fin, as we were with Rasho and Brent.

[Nikos]

"his magnitude"

... as has been repeated many times, he's already 5 years into his scoring decline. He can have big points games, but, as seen in in the last playoffs, he disappears more than he scores, and he won't get enough shots with the Spurs.

I think people are setting themselves up to be disappointed by Fin, as we were with Rasho and Brent.

Well I wouldn't go that far. His biggest decline really came last season, as far as regular seasons go. Sure his last decent playoffs for his standards was in 2003. But in 2003-04 he was still very productive. I am hoping he regains that form, which might be possible due to limiting his minutes and playing in an excellent system which might cater to his strengths as a shooter/scorer.

[Slo spurs fan]

Finley, which is why his signing was huge. The Spurs have never had a player of his magnitude coming off the bench on the perimeter and yes, that includes Saint Manu. Finley is going to be tantamount to a 6th starter. If all goes well he will be a serious candidate for the 6th Man of the Year award. It's unfortunate that he's apparently only under contract for one season, but I suspect that come next summer the Spurs will not have a problem with re-signing him...if he wants to stay.

Isn´t he signed for 2-3 years?

[Marcus Bryant]

Nope. Apparently the contract length is one season.

[Slo spurs fan]

Ok thanks. Do you know for how long NVE has signed?

[Marcus Bryant]

Also for one season.

[Slo spurs fan]

Thanks, I am too lazy to search in archive (I have siesta right now:) )

[Marcus Bryant]

The internets are your friends.

[FoxMulder]

Finley will play as sixth man... and NVE as seventh... I still don´t know how Barry fits on the team right now, jut to give some rest to the backcourt... maybe his minutes will be less than past year

[wildbill2u]

Pop will continue his tradition of mystifying fans and opponents alike with rotations that are calculated in some fashion only he knows.

Fortunately, most of the time it works and we are usually among the top teams in W-L numbers. How he does it-why he does it--only the Shadow knows.

[timvp]

Finley, which is why his signing was huge. The Spurs have never had a player of his magnitude coming off the bench on the perimeter and yes, that includes Saint Manu. Finley is going to be tantamount to a 6th starter. If all goes well he will be a serious candidate for the 6th Man of the Year award.

That would be idea. If Finley can come in and provide a huge bench presense, the Spurs would be really tough to beat.

[z0sa]

Finley's agent has been saying that Finley will get 20-25mpg... I don't really think theres a choice in the matter, Finley is too good to simply ignore on the bench for 10 minutes a game.

[Spurminator]

I expect Finley to fully integrate by March. I expect there to be growing pains in the beginning.

I could be wrong, and that would be great. But based on what we've seen from Horry, Hedo and Barry recently, I'm not ready to crown him 6th man of the Year yet, or even permanent 6th Man of the Spurs for 2005-2006.

[CosmicCowboy]

Finley will be a nice addition but I don't see him getting enough minutes off the bench for any consideration for 6th man...I suspect he will average 20-25 minutes a game and about 10 pts per game..The nice thing about Finley is his efficiency...he consistently has more points than shot attempts and is also a good free throw shooter...

[Spurminator]

The nice thing about Finley is his efficiency...he consistently has more points than shot attempts and is also a good free throw shooter...

Well, that's not all that rare... He ranked 34th in the league among Shooting Guards last year in PPS with 1.11, and that's not much worse than previous years.

His problem is that he doesn't get to the line with any frequency.

[Marcus Bryant]

There are anywhere between 30 to 35 minutes a night available for Finley as part of a 3 man swing rotation. It is going to be huge to have a scorer like him on the bench, both to help TD as well as to shoulder some of the burden that falls on TP and Manu to put up points. NVE is also going to help in that regard.

[alisalizard]

I say Finley can be the seventh or twelfth man. We cant forgot who it was that took Mark Cuban's offer to "take Bruce out". I dont think Finley deserves to be a Spur but... maybe we can USE him somehow.

[Leetonidas]

Kori sent you back to school TexasBalla but here is some support for what she is trying to tell you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swingman
Swingman
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Swingman is a basketball term denoting a player who can play both the small forward and shooting guard positions. Whereas 6'9" Larry Bird was a natural small forward and 6'6" Michael Jordan was a natural shooting guard, some versatile players such as 6'8½" LeBron James can "swing" between the two positions.

The "swingman" concept first came into vogue in the late 1970's and early 1980's, when star players such as George "Iceman" Gervin defied traditional pigeonholing into the 2 or 3 position. The best swingmen use their "in-between" height to exploit defensive mismatches: they will run past bigger players, and post up or shoot over smaller players. Scottie Pippen was another notable swingman, and some of the most popular players in the NBA today are natural swingmen, including All-Stars Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, and Manu Ginobili.

Then I'm not sure what's being debated here. Manu, Bruce, Barry, Finley. There's two starters, and two bench players. There you go.

[Spursman]

Yeah sure, Finley has been injured of late, however, he will not be used as a starter and therefore I do not believe that he will have the injury problems of the past. But lets face it. Timmy, Manu and Parker were all injured at some point last year. We still won it all. His minutes will be reduced. He will learn our system and be more effective for a shorter time played. It is very possible that he could be a 6th Man of the Year player.