Disney Replaces Longtime IT Staff With H-1B Workers

[ElNono]

Disney CEO Bob Iger is one of eight co-chairs of the Partnership for a New American Economy, a leading group advocating for an increase in the H-1B visa cap. Last Friday, the partnership was a sponsor of an H-1B briefing at the U.S. Capitol for congressional staffers. The briefing was closed to the press. One of the briefing documents obtained after the meeting stated, "H-1B workers complement — instead of displace — U.S. Workers." Last October, however, Disney laid off at least 135 IT staff (though employees say it was hundreds more) (http://www.computerworld.com/article/2915904/it-outsourcing/fury-rises-at-disney-over-use-of-foreign-workers.html), many of them longtime workers. Disney then replaced them with H-1B contractors that company said could better "focus on future innovation and new capabilities." The fired workers believe the primary motivation behind Disney's action was cost-cutting. "Some of these folks were literally flown in the day before to take over the exact same job I was doing," one former employee said. Disney officials promised new job opportunities as a result of the restructuring, but the former staff interviewed by Computerworld said they knew of few co-workers who had landed one of the new jobs. Use of visa workers in a layoff is a public policy issue (http://www.computerworld.com/article/2908124/10-us-senators-seek-investigation-into-h-1b-driven-layoffs.html), particularly for Disney. Ten U.S. senators are currently seeking a federal investigation into displacement of IT workers by H-1B-using contractors. Kim Berry, president of the Programmer's Guild, said Congress should protect American workers by mandating that positions can only be filled by H-1B workers when no qualified American — at any wage — can be found to fill the position."

[TheSanityAnnex]

:cry elnonono :cry

[ElNono]

Eh, it's not a problem affecting me personally, I run my own business...

It's simply an area that covers a lot of things we discuss here about the economy: immigration, depressing wages, unemployment, etc.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Eh, it's not a problem affecting me personally, I run my own business...

It's simply an area that covers a lot of things we discuss here about the economy: immigration, depressing wages, unemployment, etc.

and it's Disney/ABC/ESPN/Viacomm

I'm very skeptical about the Asia trade deal.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Eh, it's not a problem affecting me personally, I run my own business...

It's simply an area that covers a lot of things we discuss here about the economy: immigration, depressing wages, unemployment, etc.
I honestly just wanted to type elnono no, with :cry of course

[ElNono]

I honestly just wanted to type elnono no, with :cry of course

:tu

[ElNono]

and it's Disney/ABC/ESPN/Viacomm

I'm very skeptical about the Asia trade deal.

Everybody seems in on it...
http://www.renewoureconomy.org/about/

It's a nice racket too, since people on H1Bs can't go work for a different employer. No workforce competition, drive wages down...

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Everybody seems in on it...
http://www.renewoureconomy.org/about/

It's a nice racket too, since people on H1Bs can't go work for a different employer. No workforce competition, drive wages down...

Tying immigration rights to an employer is indentured servitude.

and :lol at that member collage. It's west coast industrialists and minority mayors. that was the gravy train Obama rode to an election and who are his most important constituents. Castro must be thinking the same thing. If he just ends up being braindrained from San Antonio I guess it's only fair considering Austin's policies.

I hope Supreme Court justice nominations finds its way into the national debate. O'Conner sounds half dead. It's either that or constitutional amendment.

we are back in the rockefeller age and those type have undone all the work of their parents generations and left us with the same shitbag from a century ago.

[boutons_deux]

and it's Disney/ABC/ESPN/Viacomm

I'm very skeptical about the Asia trade deal.

TPP is not a trade deal. trade is only 5 chapters out of 29

[Winehole23]

what are the other chapters about and where did you come by the information?

like it says in the HEB backrooms and storerooms, "don't hoard the knowledge. "

[Wild Cobra]

Eh, it's not a problem affecting me personally, I run my own business...

It's simply an area that covers a lot of things we discuss here about the economy: immigration, depressing wages, unemployment, etc.

I'm all for the visas in areas that are short of skilled people. IT is not one of them however. This should be illegal.

[ElNono]

A request by 10 U.S. senators to investigate H-1B visa use at Southern California Edison (SCE) and other companies is meeting resistance at the U.S. Department of Labor.

The DOL is telling lawmakers that it can't initiate an investigation in the absence of a complaint by an employee. The department also seems to be suggesting, in a letter to lawmakers, that an investigation may be fruitless because it is legal to replace U.S. workers with H-1B workers.

The DOL "lacks a basis to initiate an investigation," wrote M. Patricia Smith, the solicitor of labor for the department, in a letter to U.S. Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), one of the 10 senators who requested an investigation of SCE and reports of other displacements of U.S. workers as well. The department's Wage and Hour Division "has not received a complaint from an aggrieved party or a credible source," she wrote.

Some affected SCE workers told Computerworld that they had to train their replacements, who they said were on temporary visas. The Senate's Judiciary Committee held a hearing on IT worker displacements and independently received written statements from SCE workers, who described similar fates.

http://www.computerworld.com/article/2914840/it-outsourcing/labor-department-says-it-cant-investigate-so-cal-edisons-h-1b-use.html

[Wild Cobra]

Ten senators...

That's good enough to get the ball rolling on changing the immigration laws.

[boutons_deux]

Ten senators...

That's good enough to get the ball rolling on changing the immigration laws.

The tech, etc industry wants to increase H-1B quote by many 10Ks annually, with triggers to increase by 10Ks if quota is hit. The argument "not enough US STEM grads" is a LIE covering "STEM grads from Asia, East Europe are a lot cheaper"

[Wild Cobra]

Interesting:



Two of the lawmakers who are seeking an investigation, Blumenthal and McCaskill, are co-sponsors of the I-Square bill, which would raise the base H-1B visa cap of 65,000 to 195,000.


Seems to me, they agree with me that H-1B visas are OK, when we don't have sufficiently trained US employees.

[Wild Cobra]

The tech, etc industry wants to increase H-1B quote by many 10Ks annually, with triggers to increase by 10Ks if quota is hit. The argument "not enough US STEM grads" is a LIE covering "STEM grads from Asia, East Europe are a lot cheaper"
You forget, I have been on the inside of such industries. There is a valid shortage in some engineering positions. However, I have never seen a shortage of qualified technical positions like IT, automation repair, etc. to warrant these positions allow for H-1B positions. Then, for the law to allow getting rid of qualified individuals, and replace them with foreigners...

Not technically treason, but it should be.

[Wild Cobra]

Boutons...

Aren't you one that is for allowing illegal immigration, amnesty, etc. from across out southern border?

[boutons_deux]

Boutons...

Aren't you one that is for allowing illegal immigration, amnesty, etc. from across out southern border?

damn, you're fucking stupid. Increasing H-1B quota to kill US citizens' jobs is about as close to the illegal immigrant situation as cops murdering blacks is to black on black crime.

[ElNono]

You forget, I have been on the inside of such industries. There is a valid shortage in some engineering positions. However, I have never seen a shortage of qualified technical positions like IT, automation repair, etc. to warrant these positions allow for H-1B positions. Then, for the law to allow getting rid of qualified individuals, and replace them with foreigners...

Not technically treason, but it should be.

Yeah, when you're flat out replacing entire departments with immigrants, the whole "shortage" no longer makes sense.

I was actually a H1B immigrant in the 90's dotcom bubble. Everybody was hiring, you had companies coming out of the woodwork.

But right now?

[Wild Cobra]

damn, you're fucking stupid. Increasing H-1B quota to kill US citizens' jobs is about as close to the illegal immigrant situation as cops murdering blacks is to black on black crime.
Why?

Because they take away good paying jobs instead of low wage jobs?

Are you such an elitist, that jobs to the middle class are more important than jobs to the lower class?

[Wild Cobra]

Yeah, when you're flat out replacing entire departments with immigrants, the whole "shortage" no longer makes sense.

I was actually a H1B immigrant in the 90's dotcom bubble. Everybody was hiring, you had companies coming out of the woodwork.

But right now?
Yep.

I don't see too many places needing to import workers, especially with all the jobs leaving the USA. The job I was laid off from in 2002, went to Malaysia. My CMP department had two H-1B engineers. One from India, the other from Japan. The rest of the engineers were US citizens. All the managers, and technicians were citizens. Other departments were similar in a small percentage of H-1B individuals, but only the engineers with PHD's.

[ElNono]

Even their flyers are terrible for anybody that's been in the H1B system and understand how it works:

"When the Department of Homeland Security denied Amit Aharoni a high-skilled, H-1B visa in 2011, the decision had consequences far beyond a single potential worker in the American economy. At the time, Aharoni was the CEO of CruiseWise, a travel-booking firm he founded in 2010 that had hired nine U.S.-born employees in a single year"

Well, no shit, he couldn't qualify for an H1B. Unless it changed in the last few years, an H1B is a temporary worker visa, and requires a US company to sponsor it. Once granted, the worker can only work for that company.
If this guy was so good, he should've applied and obtained a O-1A visa without a problem. That visa is not even capped.

[boutons_deux]

A look at California's effort to build an H-1B firewall

It's not just California that's trying: N.J. lawmakers passed an anti-offshoring bill that was later vetoed by Gov. Chris Christie ( Wall St FatBastard warring on US employees :lol )

California lawmakers are considering a bill that would make it difficult for state-regulated utilities to replace U.S. workers with H-1B workers. It may be one of the most significant anti-offshoring measures in years.

In the absence of federal action, states have long tried to put the brakes on the shift of jobs to offshore. Legislative efforts began in earnest with the burst of the dotcom bubble in 2001. Many state bills were never adopted, but that hasn't stopped some from trying.

In New Jersey, for instance, lawmakers in 2012 approved legislation intended to impede call center outsourcing. The Communication Workers of America, which spurred the effort, said that it had represented about 3,000 New Jersey call center workers in 2002, but by 2012, that figure had fallen to 725.

http://www.itworld.com/article/2943721/it-management/a-look-at-californias-effort-to-build-an-h-1b-firewall.html?phint=newt%3Ditworld_today&phint=idg_eid%3De9a1bab1fadac3242d97a6dde939315b#t k.ITWNLE_nlt_today_2015-07-02

[LnGrrrR]

I'm all for the visas in areas that are short of skilled people. IT is not one of them however. This should be illegal.

Surprised you think so. Thought you'd be one of the "freedom to hire whoever" people. I personally don't really have an issue with it... don't we want skilled immigrants? If they can do the job, then great. Better than outsourcing at least.

[boutons_deux]

Surprised you think so. Thought you'd be one of the "freedom to hire whoever" people. I personally don't really have an issue with it... don't we want skilled immigrants? If they can do the job, then great. Better than outsourcing at least.

screwing American (skilled) workers by importing cheap Asian labor? :lol

Corporate-Americans work extremely to eliminate competition, while screwing Human-American employees into cut-throat competition.

[LnGrrrR]

I understand that Boutons, but at least if they're "important" skilled workers, they have to pay the same salaries as an American. I'm fine with more immigrants, and realize that many who get temp jobs here end up settling here too, which I think is a good thing. I can understand wanting to protect American jobs too, I just don't necessarily think it's a bad thing if they get skilled non-Americans to perform the jobs.

[boutons_deux]

"I just don't necessarily think it's a bad thing if they get skilled non-Americans to perform the jobs."

Of course, IT IS NECESSARILY BAD FAITH by BigCorp.

Less salary costs enriches investors. A classic capitalism vs labor battle, and capitalism has won.

[LnGrrrR]

I understand that it certainly enriches the pockets of the fatcats, at the expense of workers. But it's also providing jobs for people who likely need them, even if they aren't American.

[boutons_deux]

I understand that it certainly enriches the pockets of the fatcats, at the expense of workers. But it's also providing jobs for people who likely need them, even if they aren't American.

Asians have plenty of jobs in their countries, esp India.

The Corporate-Asians running the body shops for their own enrichment are as bad faith at the Corporate-Americans buying the bodies.

[ElNono]

I understand that Boutons, but at least if they're "important" skilled workers, they have to pay the same salaries as an American. I'm fine with more immigrants, and realize that many who get temp jobs here end up settling here too, which I think is a good thing. I can understand wanting to protect American jobs too, I just don't necessarily think it's a bad thing if they get skilled non-Americans to perform the jobs.

This is actually not happening, and that's one problem.

[boutons_deux]

they have to pay the same salaries as an American

:lol

[LnGrrrR]

ElNono, how/why are they not paying the same salaries they would for an American? Is it that the workers are willing to accept less money than Americans, or is there an actual loophole? And Boutons, for someone who always is trying to side with the "little guy", I didn't realize you were so biased towards the American little guy.

[ElNono]

ElNono, how/why are they not paying the same salaries they would for an American? Is it that the workers are willing to accept less money than Americans, or is there an actual loophole? And Boutons, for someone who always is trying to side with the "little guy", I didn't realize you were so biased towards the American little guy.

It's a loophole. Instead of hiring the workers, they contract the work to a "consulting company" (ie: Tata). That company is the one hiring the H1Bs. Under this arrangement, there's no longer a direct link to the work the foreigner is going to be doing vis a vis his salary. Basically, they now have to match a salary for an employee working for a consulting company. It's a low salary compared to an experienced IT worker. Some of that work might end up not even being done in the US by a H1B worker.

Not only that, the company shredding the jobs doesn't have to offer the bonuses, raises, benefits or pension packages offered to the rest of the company.

It has gotten so bad that almost half of H1B's are being requested by these "consulting" companies, and at this point they have a rotating staff of H1B workers to tackle the contract work as it comes. Some of these companies have been found to file multiple H1B requests for the same person, something the USCIS recently banned once they caught up to the scheming.

It's a complete gaming of the H1B system.

[ElNono]

The H1B system was designed in a way such that if a company like Facebook or Microsoft needed certain type of workers and couldn't find them in the US, they could bring them over, pay them the same salary as an American worker, with bonuses, raises, benefits, etc, and this worker couldn't go work for another company (taking over another american job). But with this system they're now indirectly doing work for multiple companies, and getting paid less. Not only that, they depress the overall salary value in the local IT economy. For the foreign worker it's a good gig, they get to visit and live in the US for a few years, gives them a path to potential residency/citizenship, and odds are they were not getting raises, benefits or a pension in their country anyways...

The American worker though is the one getting the shaft...

[LnGrrrR]

ElNono, ok thanks for the headsup. Hm. Hard to ungame that system. I don't have the math to back me up, but I feel like the US should be allowing more immigration rather than less, even if it does depress salary. As fellow IT, I wouldn't be too thrilled about lowering the cost, but to play devil's advocate, do these H1Bs have the technical skills to fulfill these skilled jobs? Or are the companies just accepting that risk?

[ElNono]

ElNono, ok thanks for the headsup. Hm. Hard to ungame that system. I don't have the math to back me up, but I feel like the US should be allowing more immigration rather than less, even if it does depress salary. As fellow IT, I wouldn't be too thrilled about lowering the cost, but to play devil's advocate, do these H1Bs have the technical skills to fulfill these skilled jobs? Or are the companies just accepting that risk?

Some probably do, some definitely don't. But these decisions are being made by the same guys that are more interested in showing better numbers for next quarter than actual technical people. Look at HP or Compaq, once the company took a nose dive, the CEO gets a golden parachute, runs for president and nobody gives a shit what happened 2-3 years ago.

Plus, the H1B system was reserved to the truly unique, skilled people that you couldn't find in the US. There's no way these guys are that. No bank in Wall Street is going to subcontract work on their trade secret algos, or Disney is going to replace their top notch animators and render engineers with these guys. Google and Apple aren't relying on subcontractors to write their OS. This has to be for the "menial" stuff: web sites, mobile apps, etc. There's plenty of small businesses and guys in the US that can do those.

The whole thing it's just uneven ground. H1Bs are temporary visas. Most of them don't end up qualifying for sponsorship. It really is a temp worker situation going on. The american worker is here for the long haul, needs to eventually buy a house here, send the kids to college, save up enough for retirement.

I'm a former H1B holder, now a citizen, and run my own business, so this doesn't really affects me much, but the system has completely changed now. These consulting companies are the equivalent of sweat shops. I feel for the americans or just the guys that are here for the long run. It's next to impossible to compete with that.

[LnGrrrR]

Hm. Thanks for the insight Elnono. On a tangent, how are you doing businesswise? Only four more years til I'm eligible for retirement, and I'll definitely be going into IT. :D

[ElNono]

Hm. Thanks for the insight Elnono. On a tangent, how are you doing businesswise? Only four more years til I'm eligible for retirement, and I'll definitely be going into IT. :D

Business goes up and down, but generally we're doing ok. Waiting on a gig right now that could be pretty good, but we're under NDA so I can't really talk about :D

[LnGrrrR]

Totally understand that. I might be pinging you in five years or so... :D

[ElNono]

Totally understand that. I might be pinging you in five years or so... :D

sure thing

[boutons_deux]

The U.S. computer industry is dying and I’ll tell you exactly who is killing it and why (http://www.cringely.com/2015/06/24/the-u-s-computer-industry-is-dying-and-ill-tell-you-exactly-who-is-killing-it-and-why/)


http://www.cringely.com/2015/06/24/the-u-s-computer-industry-is-dying-and-ill-tell-you-exactly-who-is-killing-it-and-why/

[boutons_deux]

"Wait, there's more!" -- Cousin Vinnie

Pfizer Connecticut R&D

In 2008, workers at pharmaceutical giant Pfizer's New London and Groton (Connecticut) research and development campus raised the alarm (http://www.eweek.com/c/a/IT-Infrastructure/Did-Pfizer-Force-its-Staff-to-Train-Their-H1B-Replacements): They were being replaced by Indian workers on H-1B visas and forced to train their replacements. Those outsourced workers were scheduled to return to India, where they will run the same systems as their U.S. counterparts, albeit at a cheaper rate and with diminished benefits. The move was part of an outsourcing agreement signed in 2005 between Pfizer, Infosys Technologies and Satyam Computer Services.


Molina Healthcare


In 2010, Molina Healthcare announced it was laying off much of its staff. The announcement took place on the same day the U.S. government approved forty H-1B visa applications for the company; a lawsuit and legal battle ensued. The suit alleged that the fired employees, all of whom were U.S. citizens or green card holders, were fired as a cost-cutting measure so they could be replaced by cheaper, less-experienced foreign workers (https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2013/03/30/visa-program-has-been-hijacked-outsourcers/VAg6o9KgS2tuoZ3WbmaqeK/story.html), according to the Boston Globe. The fired Molina employees were earning an average of $75,000 a year, plus benefits; the new workers, brought over to work on H-1B visas, earned $50,000, with no benefits


Infosys and Tata

Noticed a pattern, yet? The same large outsourcing firms keep cropping up in relation to these scandals. As Ron Hira, an Economic Policy Institute research associate and an associate professor of public policy at Howard University outlines in this blog for the Economic Policy Institute (http://www.epi.org/blog/new-data-infosys-tata-abuse-h-1b-program/):

"These two India-based IT firms specialize in outsourcing and offshoring, are major publicly traded companies with a combined market value of about $115 billion, and are the top two H-1B employers in the United States. In Fiscal Year (FY) 2013, Infosys ranked first with 6,269 H-1B petitions approved by the government, and Tata ranked second with 6,193 … these leading offshore outsourcing firms use the H-1B program to replace American workers and to facilitate the offshoring of American jobs … they don't use the H-1B visa as a way to alleviate a shortage of STEM-educated U.S. workers; they use it primarily to cut labor costs."

http://www.itworld.com/article/2946036/it-management/5-shocking-examples-of-h-1b-visa-program-abuse.html?phint=newt%3Ditworld_today&phint=idg_eid%3D997c2c0be180eb9bc32d6211712db4cb#s lide1

[Winehole23]

slightly related, on the H2 program:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jessicagarrison/the-new-american-slavery-invited-to-the-us-foreign-workers-f#.ylaoj4ZG5