Spurs may be looking to trade Splitter

[Pound the rock]

Report: Spurs may look to trade Tiago Splitter
http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/05/05/report-spurs-may-look-to-trade-tiago-splitter/?ocid=Yahoo&partner=ya5nbcs
Tiago Splitter was a key cog in a Spurs machine that made it to the Finals in each of the last two seasons. Playing alongside Tim Duncan up front, Splitter was a capable defender and rebounder who was a fantastic fit in San Antonio’s overall scheme.

[Russ]

Trading an injured Splitter goes against the theory of sell high/buy low.

[RD2191]

This isn't a report just speculation at best.

[Robz4000]

If Duncan comes back and Aldridge picks SA he's gone, otherwise Diaw will more than likely be moved.

[Chinook]

Duncan/Aldridge/Splitter is a much better big rotation than Duncan/Aldridge/Diaw. Unless the Spurs have an awesome plan for a backup center, there's no way I'd rather have Boris.

[Splits]

Why dump Splitter? We've got bird rights on all our UFA and 3 RFA. We can sign LMA, re-sign all our other FAs, and go over the cap for one season until the cap-hike kicks in the following season. Being over the cap only really hurts repeat offenders. I can't imagine Holt would say no to paying the tax for 1 measly season if it meant locking up LMA and Kawhi to long-term deals while retaining Splitter and Diaw.

[tholdren]

Trading an injured Splitter goes against the theory of sell high/buy low.
not in the nba, with bigs. He will go, and go for lots.

[Ron Swanson]

This isn't a report just speculation at best.

[tholdren]

Duncan/Aldridge/Splitter is a much better big rotation than Duncan/Aldridge/Diaw. Unless the Spurs have an awesome plan for a backup center, there's no way I'd rather have Boris.

smh - and this is why you would lose. Diaw, or players like him, are instrumental to a title team. You have to have guys who make momentum plays on both sides of the court.

See Matt Barnes

[Chinook]

smh - and this is why you would lose. Diaw, or players like him, are instrumental to a title team. You have to have guys who make momentum plays on both sides of the court.

See Matt Barnes

:lol I don't even know where to go with that one.

[BatManu20]

Non-issue.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CD2o2hUWEAAoI0r.jpg:large

[Mikeanaro]

smh - and this is why you would lose. Diaw, or players like him, are instrumental to a title team. You have to have guys who make momentum plays on both sides of the court.

See Matt Barnes
Exactly, Splitter cant shoot more than 3 feet from the basket, what about those crazy ass shots made by Boris during games 6 and 7 against Clips... imagine Tiago doing that :lmao

[Chinook]

Why dump Splitter? We've got bird rights on all our UFA and 3 RFA. We can sign LMA, re-sign all our other FAs, and go over the cap for one season until the cap-hike kicks in the following season. Being over the cap only really hurts repeat offenders. I can't imagine Holt would say no to paying the tax for 1 measly season if it meant locking up LMA and Kawhi to long-term deals while retaining Splitter and Diaw.

There's a lot wrong with your view on this:

One, it's either Bird rights or cap space (in this case). The Spurs aren't going to be able to re-sign most of their free agents if they go for Aldridge. Also, there's no penalty for going over the cap. Finally, the Spurs don't have Bird rights on Beli or Ayres (but who cares?)

[Splits]

There's a lot wrong with your view on this:

One, it's either Bird rights or cap space (in this case). The Spurs aren't going to be able to re-sign most of their free agents if they go for Aldridge. Also, there's no penalty for going over the cap. Finally, the Spurs don't have Bird rights on Beli or Ayres (but who cares?)

If the LMA deal keeps them under the cap with all their RFA cap holds (or renouncing rights), they can still sign all their UFAs with bird rights (Duncan and Green) and their RFAs (Leonard) and go over the cap. How else did NJ and NY and LA end up so far over the cap in the past few years?

[Ditty]

Duncan/Aldridge/Splitter is a much better big rotation than Duncan/Aldridge/Diaw. Unless the Spurs have an awesome plan for a backup center, there's no way I'd rather have Boris.

Agree.

The only way we dump Splitter is if we land Gasol.

Gasol/Duncan/Diaw would be ideal, but Gasol isn't leaving Memphis. If we are getting Aldridge Duncan/Aldridge/Splitter would be the way to go.

[Chinook]

If the LMA deal keeps them under the cap with all their RFA cap holds (or renouncing rights), they can still sign all their UFAs with bird rights (Duncan and Green) and their RFAs (Leonard) and go over the cap. How else did NJ and NY and LA end up so far over the cap in the past few years?

Trades and repeated use of the old MLE. The Spurs don't have any cap space if they don't renounce most of their Bird rights.

[Splits]

Trades and repeated use of the old MLE. The Spurs don't have any cap space if they don't renounce most of their Bird rights.

What are cap holds for UFAs?

[tholdren]

:lol I don't even know where to go with that one.

There's nowhere to go - Barnes came up Bigger than KL and put a stamp on the series game 1.

Splitter is anti-momentum.

Nothing you can say can validate Splitter, a consistently shitty playoff performing starter who couldnt even find minutes in Finals series. WHY STICK WITH THAT

[BatManu20]

A world where Bobo plays for someone other than the Spurs is one I don't want to live in, tbh..

[baseline bum]

Trading an injured Splitter goes against the theory of sell high/buy low.

It would just be a salary dump to make room for Aldridge. I doubt they'd get an asset back. It's a pretty hard decision to make with regards to Splitter's future though. When healthy he's a tremendous defender who has shown a nice touch scoring in the post, but he's also a ridiculous china doll who you can't depend on to be out there on the court. I think when Pop was talking about some players not producing he was mostly pointing the finger at Splitter and Green.

[RD2191]

A world where Bobo plays for someone other than the Spurs is one I don't want to live in, tbh..

[td4mvp21]

I feel like a Duncan/Diaw/Aldridge front court would be too weak defensively. Statistically, what do Alridge's defensive numbers/rating look like?

[cd98]

Splitter is a good team defender and probably the best passing big in the NBA. You don't trade him unless you are sure you have a big to replace him. Only chance he is traded is part of a sign and trade with Gasol or LMA.

[DPG21920]

It would just be a salary dump to make room for Aldridge. I doubt they'd get an asset back. It's a pretty hard decision to make with regards to Splitter's future though. When healthy he's a tremendous defender who has shown a nice touch scoring in the post, but he's also a ridiculous china doll who you can't depend on to be out there on the court. I think when Pop was talking about some players not producing he was mostly pointing the finger at Splitter and Green.

Lumping Green in with Tiago this year is way off. Danny had a few bad games, but he more than made up for it in the other ones. Tiago was injured and didn't have a good series at all.

[Sean Cagney]

Splitter is a good team defender and probably the best passing big in the NBA. You don't trade him unless you are sure you have a big to replace him. Only chance he is traded is part of a sign and trade with Gasol or LMA.

True.

[Mikeanaro]

I feel like a Duncan/Diaw/Aldridge front court would be too weak defensively. Statistically, what do Alridge's defensive numbers/rating look like?
What could Tiago do? he could not even defend Glenn Davis.

[ElNono]

Makes a lot of sense to prioritize retaining Diaw, especially if Manu is retiring. I actually suspect Diaw is in the near untouchable tier. He's extremely talented and versatile, very difficult to replace a player like that. He's also on a reasonable deal.

[tholdren]

Splitter is a good team defender and probably the best passing big in the NBA. You don't trade him unless you are sure you have a big to replace him. Only chance he is traded is part of a sign and trade with Gasol or LMA.
He cannot defend Blake Griffin. He did a shitty job passing this post season. He has no post scoring. Im not sure why you need that

[baseline bum]

Lumping Green in with Tiago this year is way off. Danny had a few bad games, but he more than made up for it in the other ones. Tiago was injured and didn't have a good series at all.

I agree, but Green has always been a whipping boy for Pop and he was bad for the first six games. So I think Pop's referring specifically to those two. I doubt he's talking about Parker since he was so reluctant to play Mills over him.

[TheGreatYacht]

Splitter is probably the best passing big in the NBA. I keep hearing this yet my eyes just see some sloppy scrub in the post missing open guys in the corners, when he's in trouble down there, he doesn't even try to look for anyone else... He just puts up some disgusting ass "fadeaway floater?" that either air balls or gets stuffed. Horrible court vision

[tholdren]

I agree, but Green has always been a whipping boy for Pop and he was bad for the first six games. So I think Pop's referring specifically to those two. I doubt he's talking about Parker since he was so reluctant to play Mills over him.
I agree - even when mills was our second best player in the playoffs

[RD2191]

If anyone deserves some slack for a REAL INJURY this past season it's Tiago. He's a beast on D when healthy.

[baseline bum]

Makes a lot of sense to prioritize retaining Diaw, especially if Manu is retiring. I actually suspect Diaw is in the near untouchable tier. He's extremely talented and versatile, very difficult to replace a player like that. He's also on a reasonable deal.

Yeah, with no Manu having Diaw in the second unit is a must for the Spurs' ball movement. I'd much rather salary dump Splitter than Diaw factoring that in as well as the injury problems that always plague Tiago.

[ElNono]

You could even argue that Splitter offensive value is directly proportional to Manu's pick & roll game...

Tiago real value is defending the P&R for the Spurs. It's very valuable considering Tim's struggles with it, but it's hardly irreplaceable, IMO.

[TheGreatYacht]

Let's face it. Splitter in his prime couldn't stay healthy, he's going to keep playing for Brazil every summer, never shows up in the post season, and he's on the wrong side of 30. Ditch him.

[Spur|n|Austin]

What could Tiago do? he could not even defend Glenn Davis.

You know he was injured right? Like limping back to the bench during time outs type of injured.

[baseline bum]

Tiago real value is defending the P&R for the Spurs. It's very valuable considering Tim's struggles with it, but it's hardly irreplaceable, IMO.

Indeed, but he's gotta be healthy, and depending on Splitter's health is playing Russian Roulette with two bullets in the cylinder.

[Splits]

NBA salary cap projection for 2015-16: 66.5 million

Spurs committed with RFA cap holds: 33.8 million

Committed with Green at 190% of current salary: 41.8 million

Committed after renouncing Ginobili: 34.8 million

Committed after renouncing Baynes and CoJo: 29 million

Resign Duncan at $10 million: 39 million

That leaves 27.5 million in cap space

Sign LMA to max of 22 million: 61 million

Sign Kawhi to max of 16 million: 77 million

Sign LDN to 10 million: 87 million

Over the cap, under the apron.

Salary cap rises to over 100 million in 2016-17, Spurs are under the cap

Why can this series of events not occur?

[RD2191]

:lol@ people excusing Parkers shit play because of "injuries" yet claim tiago is trash when he REALLY WAS INJURED.:lol

[Mikeanaro]

You know he was injured right? Like limping back to the bench during time outs type of injured.
You know Chris Paul was injured? one word... SOFT.

[ElNono]

Indeed, but he's gotta be healthy, and depending on Splitter's health is playing Russian Roulette with two bullets in the cylinder.

Yeah, his health is a major concern... especially when this season they couldn't even get a diagnosis of what was going on.

On that note, Diaw is way more durable, even when eating french pastries all summer...

[tholdren]

:lol@ people excusing Parkers shit play because of "injuries" yet claim tiago is trash when he REALLY WAS INJURED.:lol
So what was Tiago's official injury?

[Embedded]

Diaw is a playmaker I want to keep him

[baseline bum]

:lol@ people excusing Parkers shit play because of "injuries" yet claim tiago is trash when he REALLY WAS INJURED.:lol

Who is excusing Enrique? He was going downhill last year when he was healthy. Parker's done. Awesome player from 2002-2013 but he's Detroit Iverson now.

[100%duncan]

I'd retain Diaw over Splitter any day of the week, and twice on game 7's. With that said, you'd need a defensive big and a cheap one at that if they plan on pursuing LMA. Can't think of any.

[BackHome]

If Manu hangs it up then I would let Green walk if we could get a top SG - someone who can shot from the outside, inside, and dribble the ball to create their own baskets. I don't know though if any good SG will be out there this year as a free agents.

[Malik Hairston]

If Manu hangs it up then I would let Green walk if we could get a top SG - someone who can shot from the outside, inside, and dribble the ball to create their own baskets. I don't know though if any good SG will be out there this year as a free agents.

Pairing the worst defensive PG in the NBA(Parker) with an offensive SG seems like a bad fit, tbh..

[ElNono]

If Manu hangs it up then I would let Green walk if we could get a top SG - someone who can shot from the outside, inside, and dribble the ball to create their own baskets. I don't know though if any good SG will be out there this year as a free agents.

Monta is the only one I can think of, and tbh, I'm kinda torn if he would be a net positive. As Malik said, the defensive concerns are real, plus if you already have Tony taking shots away from Kawhi, having another chucker doesn't help, tbh...

[100%duncan]

I wish they didnt give parker that contract tbh. smdh

[cd021]

I mentioned this before, but a Splitter to Atlanta for the 15th pick makes sense for both teams. Not just because Splitter played for Bud. He would be the 3rd big man and can play with either Milsap and Horford for around 20 mpg. His best season came when he started the season off the bench.

Spurs would shed about $7 million heading into the off season (including the cost of the 15th pick). Potentially having two 1st rounders [assuming they'd be able to keep the 26th pick] in never a bad thing for the Spurs (last time we got Kawhi and Cojo).

Atanta would still have around $17.5 million to resign Milsap and Carrol (they could move Scott to clear out around $21 million) They'd upgrade their front court with Splitter.

[cd98]

I keep hearing this yet my eyes just see some sloppy scrub in the post missing open guys in the corners, when he's in trouble down there, he doesn't even try to look for anyone else... He just puts up some disgusting ass "fadeaway floater?" that either air balls or gets stuffed. Horrible court vision

Ive seen him make passes guards can't make. His passing is a big part of our second unit's three point shooting. And but for a calf injury, he would have been huge against the Clippers.

[cd021]

Monta is the only one I can think of, and tbh, I'm kinda torn if he would be a net positive. As Malik said, the defensive concerns are real, plus if you already have Tony taking shots away from Kawhi, having another chucker doesn't help, tbh...

A negative. Parker and Ellis isn't a good paring. Ellis is also an extremely moody player on and off the court. It got overshadowed by Rondo and Carlie feuding.

[cd98]

He cannot defend Blake Griffin. He did a shitty job passing this post season. He has no post scoring. Im not sure why you need that

No one can guard Blake one on one. Splitter would've done better on offense and defense but for a calf issue. Spurs played best this season when he was healthy. But I'm not saying he's a great man to man defender, though he's had great success in the past. I'm saying he knows team defense, which often means knowing were to be on the court and getting to those spots to disrupt an offense. He does that well on PNR and on rotations.

[TheGreatYacht]

Ive seen him make passes guards can't make. His passing is a big part of our second unit's three point shooting. And but for a calf injury, he would have been huge against the Clippers.
I agree that some of his playmaking is elite, for example the bounce passes to cutting guards. Problem is, ever since he had that good streak of games he thinks he's some go to post guy and it ends up being a dead possession IMO

Healthy Splitter is worth the money, but we just never see that version when it matters most.

[monkeypunk]

No way Pop wants anything to do with Monta Ellis and vice versa.

[RD2191]

No way Pop wants anything to do with Monta Ellis and vice versa.
Weren't the Spurs rumored to have really wanted JR Smith a few seasons back?

[TheGreatYacht]

No way Pop wants anything to do with Monta Ellis and vice versa.
The reason Danny Green stuck around was because Ellis was killing us in his GS days, and Pop was looking for someone to stop him. I'm sure they'll have a call when free agency starts. I mean they had one with Tyreke Evans lol

[coachmac87]

I mentioned this before, but a Splitter to Atlanta for the 15th pick makes sense for both teams. Not just because Splitter played for Bud. He would be the 3rd big man and can play with either Milsap and Horford for around 20 mpg. His best season came when he started the season off the bench.

Spurs would shed about $7 million heading into the off season (including the cost of the 15th pick). Potentially having two 1st rounders [assuming they'd be able to keep the 26th pick] in never a bad thing for the Spurs (last time we got Kawhi and Cojo).

Atanta would still have around $17.5 million to resign Milsap and Carrol (they could move Scott to clear out around $21 million) They'd upgrade their front court with Splitter.

Who you like at 15?

[DPG21920]

NBA salary cap projection for 2015-16: 66.5 million

Spurs committed with RFA cap holds: 33.8 million

Committed with Green at 190% of current salary: 41.8 million

Committed after renouncing Ginobili: 34.8 million

Committed after renouncing Baynes and CoJo: 29 million

Resign Duncan at $10 million: 39 million

That leaves 27.5 million in cap space

Sign LMA to max of 22 million: 61 million

Sign Kawhi to max of 16 million: 77 million

Sign LDN to 10 million: 87 million

Over the cap, under the apron.

Salary cap rises to over 100 million in 2016-17, Spurs are under the cap

Why can this series of events not occur?

This is off. If you are counting Green/Kawhi's current cap hold + other necessary roster charges in your scenario with Duncan at 10M a year, Spurs would be at about 62M in salary with a salary cap of 66M~.

[Mr. Body]

If Splitter wasn't so fragile this would be a harder decision. I fully expect them to shop both he and Parker, although Parker might not get any interest whatsoever at his price.

[Richie]

NBA salary cap projection for 2015-16: 66.5 million

Spurs committed with RFA cap holds: 33.8 million

Committed with Green at 190% of current salary: 41.8 million

Committed after renouncing Ginobili: 34.8 million

Committed after renouncing Baynes and CoJo: 29 million

Resign Duncan at $10 million: 39 million

That leaves 27.5 million in cap space

Sign LMA to max of 22 million: 61 million

Sign Kawhi to max of 16 million: 77 million

Sign LDN to 10 million: 87 million

Over the cap, under the apron.

Salary cap rises to over 100 million in 2016-17, Spurs are under the cap

Why can this series of events not occur?

Your numbers are way off. If we renounce everyone except Green and Kawhi we have $51m committed, giving us $15m.

[monkeypunk]

Weren't the Spurs rumored to have really wanted JR Smith a few seasons back?

I know they tried to trade Barry for him back in the day but now? Not sure Pop thinks he has the time to deal with knuckleheads any more, life's too short. See Jackson for example, who he adored and fired when he got too big for his britches.

[Richie]

I mentioned this before, but a Splitter to Atlanta for the 15th pick makes sense for both teams. Not just because Splitter played for Bud. He would be the 3rd big man and can play with either Milsap and Horford for around 20 mpg. His best season came when he started the season off the bench.

Spurs would shed about $7 million heading into the off season (including the cost of the 15th pick). Potentially having two 1st rounders [assuming they'd be able to keep the 26th pick] in never a bad thing for the Spurs (last time we got Kawhi and Cojo).

Atanta would still have around $17.5 million to resign Milsap and Carrol (they could move Scott to clear out around $21 million) They'd upgrade their front court with Splitter.

I agree it's a good fit, but they couldn't absorb his salary on draft day without renouncing Millsap or Carroll which they obviously won't do. We'd need to get a 3rd team involved to absorb some salary.

[Splits]

This is off. If you are counting Green/Kawhi's current cap hold + other necessary roster charges in your scenario with Duncan at 10M a year, Spurs would be at about 62M in salary with a salary cap of 66M~.


Your numbers are way off. If we renounce everyone except Green and Kawhi we have $51m committed, giving us $15m.

You're both coming up with two very different numbers. I'd like to see the breakdown.

The flaw in my post was the renouncing $7m on Gino since that wasn't part of the original $33.8 commit. So that would leave $20.5m after resigning Duncan to lure a FA. And then use RFA and Bird Rights to get Kawhi and Green on the books by going over the cap.

[DPG21920]

You're both coming up with two very different numbers. I'd like to see the breakdown.

The flaw in my post was the renouncing $7m on Gino since that wasn't part of the original $33.8 commit. So that would leave $20.5m after resigning Duncan to lure a FA. And then use RFA and Bird Rights to get Kawhi and Green on the books by going over the cap.

The difference in our numbers is that I added back in Tim at 10M per your post.

[Splits]

Your numbers are way off. If we renounce everyone except Green and Kawhi we have $51m committed, giving us $15m.

How?

http://i.imgur.com/Xebmfvf.png

33.8 committed minus 5.8 renouncing CoJo and Baynes is 28m. Add in 190% of Green's 4m and we're at 36m. Where's the other 15m come from?

[DPG21920]

You are making it too complicated IMO. Spurs have 33.8 committed at this point barring a trade of one of Parker, Tiago, Mills, Anderson, or Boris. Kawhi and Danny's current cap hold is combined to about 15M. That alone is 48.8M. When you add in your 10M for Duncan, that is 58.8M. Then when you add in the roster charges because TP, Tim, Tiago, Mills, Anderson, Boris, Kawhi & Danny only equals 8 players (need 12 spots charged) you get to the 60+M I was referring too.

[Richie]

$33.8 plus $7.8m for Green and $7.5m for Kawhi cap holds. Then I include $1m for our 1st rounder and $2.2m in roster holds comes to around $51.6m

[Richie]

How?

http://i.imgur.com/Xebmfvf.png

33.8 committed minus 5.8 renouncing CoJo and Baynes is 28m. Add in 190% of Green's 4m and we're at 36m. Where's the other 15m come from?

That 33.8 doesn't include CoJo or Baynes cap hold, it's just the 5 guaranteed players (Parker, Diaw, Splitter, Mills and Anderson)

[cd021]

How?

http://i.imgur.com/Xebmfvf.png

33.8 committed minus 5.8 renouncing CoJo and Baynes is 28m. Add in 190% of Green's 4m and we're at 36m. Where's the other 15m come from?

Leonard and Greens cap holds aren't included

KL-$7,200,000
DG-$7,600,00


thats about $49 million for 7 players. Add in roster charges (500,000 for each roster spot unfilled up to 13) thats $3,000,000. The Spurs should have around $15 million in cap space. Richie is correct.

BTW basketball insiders salary page is way better than hoophype or basketball reference.

[Splits]

$33.8 plus $7.8m for Green and $7.5m for Kawhi cap holds. Then I include $1m for our 1st rounder and $2.2m in roster holds comes to around $51.6m

Thanks. But why is Kawhi 7.5 instead of the QO?

[cd021]

Who you like at 15?

not a college fan but Sam Decker seems like a good one.

[Richie]

Thanks. But why is Kawhi 7.5 instead of the QO?

It's because he's a bird free agent coming off a rookie deal where his last salary is below the league average. That means his cap hold is 250% of his previous salary

Read more here: www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q38 (http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q38)

[DAF86]

Sign and trade with the Heat for Dragic. The Dragon does it to play for the Spurs, the Heat do it to get something for nothing. Is this even possible, tbh?

[adonis827]

Agree.

The only way we dump Splitter is if we land Gasol.

Gasol/Duncan/Diaw would be ideal, but Gasol isn't leaving Memphis. If we are getting Aldridge Duncan/Aldridge/Splitter would be the way to go.

Aldridge / Diaw / Duncan is not as bad as well. Since Duncan can easily do the Center position. Might make us even quicker.

[DJR210]

Trade Splitter's soft as Charmin ass to Golden State so he can be closer to the gay capitol.

[cd021]

Aldridge / Diaw / Duncan is not as bad as well. Since Duncan can easily do the Center position. Might make us even quicker.

Duncan can do the center position because he's been a center for almost a decade

[Mal]

Pay fucking tax for Duncan...

[Texas_Ranger]

Sign and trade with the Heat for Dragic. The Dragon does it to play for the Spurs, the Heat do it to get something for nothing. Is this even possible, tbh?

Trading Parker for Dragic would actualy not be a bad idea. I know the Spurs would never do it tho.

[Raven]

Trading Parker for Dragic would actualy not be a bad idea. I know the Spurs would never do it tho.

i'd say the heat would never do it

[Cklbmk]

Duncan/Aldridge/Splitter is a much better big rotation than Duncan/Aldridge/Diaw. Unless the Spurs have an awesome plan for a backup center, there's no way I'd rather have Boris.


Without Manu playmaking? I'm not sure. We kind of need Diaws passing

[Mal]

i'd say the heat would never do it

I dont know. Heat will be irrelevant for years to come. If Spurs throw talent and picks they could bite. If Dragic is gone, they could make the deal.

[Chinook]

Without Manu playmaking? I'm not sure. We kind of need Diaws passing

The drop-off on defense will be gigantic if they swap out Splitter for Aldridge.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

There's a lot wrong with your view on this:

One, it's either Bird rights or cap space (in this case). The Spurs aren't going to be able to re-sign most of their free agents if they go for Aldridge. Also, there's no penalty for going over the cap. Finally, the Spurs don't have Bird rights on Beli or Ayres (but who cares?)

They have the early bird rights for Beli. They can sign him up to a 4.5 mil a year contract (175% of his previous salary of 2.87 mil last year). That would be a fair price for him if the Spurs wanted to retain him.

[jag]

A world where Bobo plays for someone other than the Spurs is one I don't want to live in, tbh..

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Thanks. But why is Kawhi 7.5 instead of the QO?

He would have to sign the QO offer, which I hardly doubt he would. Extending the QO just makes Kawhi a RFA, nothing more. This just gives the Spurs the right to match and sign Kawhi to any other contract offer he might sign.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Yo Splits, I think the projected cap is around 89-91 mil a year in 2016, not over 100 mil. Even then, the Spurs would be under cap if they signed LA this offseason.

[Cowboys_Wear_Spurs]

Let's face it. Splitter in his prime couldn't stay healthy, he's going to keep playing for Brazil every summer, never shows up in the post season, and he's on the wrong side of 30. Ditch him.

Sorry to say it, but I agree with this. Splitter, even according to Def Eff rating, is one of the best Defenders in the league. He is right behind Kawhi, who was #1 in the league.

But he is always injured and isn't totally reliable. He is now turning 30. At this point, I would swap Splitter for LA. Just look what a scoring PF can do that is in a working system, still beat a Rockets team w/o their starting PG.

LA is not a horrible defender like say Amare. He is a decent to good defender, and his offensive prowess would make up for the difference.

[baseline bum]

If Splitter wasn't so fragile this would be a harder decision. I fully expect them to shop both he and Parker, although Parker might not get any interest whatsoever at his price.

If Splitter wasn't so fragile this would be an easy decision: tell Aldridge to fuck off because the Spurs frontcourt would be stacked like hell.

[Cklbmk]

The drop-off on defense will be gigantic if they swap out Splitter for Aldridge.


I mean P&R might hurt us. But that might be fixable with a new system. Aldridge clearly wants to win. I imagine that means he'll take advice. I'd roll the dice with Aldridge/Timmy

[Chinook]

They have the early bird rights for Beli. They can sign him up to a 4.5 mil a year contract (175% of his previous salary of 2.87 mil last year). That would be a fair price for him if the Spurs wanted to retain him.

They can sign him up to the MLE, since it's bigger than 175 percent of his previous salary. In any event, he will probably find a be able to find more on the open market.

[Chinook]

I mean P&R might hurt us. But that might be fixable with a new system. Aldridge clearly wants to win. I imagine that means he'll take advice. I'd roll the dice with Aldridge/Timmy

Yeah, it won't.

[PingPong]

LaMarcus can improve his defense working with the Spurs staff. Otherwise I can't see the Spurs nothing better than Portland with him.

[unleashbaynes]

My takeaway from this thread is that we're gonna have posters slobbering about Matt fucking Barnes(aka a complete scrub bag who had a nice series because of all our attention going to Paul/Griffin who never missed) all goddamn summer.

[mkurts]

To summarise .... more Shitter is better than Aldridge ?

The porcelain doll defense appearing maybe once a series is the future ?

Hmmmm ........ interesting.

[testies]

He's having injury problem so lets fuck him off of here and forget his contrbutions!

that is so classless, i doubt spurs would do that.. specially because tiago is a dude everyone likes

[Mal]

Why ? Diaw/Duncan/Aldridge/Splitter can work in every combination.

[Cklbmk]

He's having injury problem so lets fuck him off of here and forget his contrbutions!

that is so classless, i doubt spurs would do that.. specially because tiago is a dude everyone likes


If its him or Aldridge, he's gots to go

[Cklbmk]

Why ? Diaw/Duncan/Aldridge/Splitter can work in every combination.

Then Aldridge has to take 15m a year or we have to shed Parker or let Green go.

Pretty big hole to fill anyway you slice it

[loveforthegame]

Spurs traded one of Pops (and fans) favorites for an unproven Leonard. Do you really think they wouldn't trade Splitter if they're high enough on someone like Aldridge?

[Juan]

Not sure why anyone would be hesitant to trade Splitter for Aldridge: I understand Aldridge is a bit overrated but Splitter is certainly not some irreplaceable player. The guy has failed numerous times on the biggest stage and apparently can't stay healthy either anyway.

the guy was absolutely horrendous against the clippers defensively. Aldridge could vastly improve under Pop/Tim and playing next to guys like Green/Leonard.

[Chinook]

People are overrating Splitter's injury history. He was healthy the three post-seasons before this one. He had a bad year with injuries, and he's never going to be an ironman in the regular season. But he's certainly had many more strong playoff moments than he has weak ones.

[RD2191]

Not sure why anyone would be hesitant to trade Splitter for Aldridge: I understand Aldridge is a bit overrated but Splitter is certainly not some irreplaceable player. The guy has failed numerous times on the biggest stage and apparently can't stay healthy either anyway.

the guy was absolutely horrendous against the clippers defensively. Aldridge could vastly improve under Pop/Tim and playing next to guys like Green/Leonard.
:lolWhat a shit take. If it weren't for Splitter the Grizz would still be pushing the Spurs shit in. Not to mention the work he does on LMA and Dirk.

[cjw]

For everyone that thinks that it's possible to keep the entire team in tact and sign Aldridge, you're as delusional as fans of NBA teams that chase max contract guys each season. Something has to give in order to carve out adequate space, and it is most likely either not retaining Green, or moving one of Splitter/Diaw (Mills could be moved but cost savings not substantial enough). That's your best case scenario given that Parker will not be moved by the front office.

[kaji157]

Sign and trade splitter for fall would be great

[kaji157]

People are overrating Splitter's injury history. He was healthy the three post-seasons before this one. He had a bad year with injuries, and he's never going to be an ironman in the regular season. But he's certainly had many more strong playoff moments than he has weak ones.
He tends to dissapear In the po. He was shit in 2012, in 2013 and 2015. 3 out of 4 po runs we got vagina.

[Chinook]

He tends to dissapear In the po. He was shit in 2012, in 2013 and 2015. 3 out of 4 po runs we got vagina.

What tends to disappear is people's memories. He was good in 2012, but Pop stopped playing him after Brooks did Hack-a-Splitter. In 2013, he was huge against Golden State and Memphis. The Spurs just didn't adjust to Miami going small. 2014 was the greatest defensive run for a Spurs big since Duncan in 2003. This year, Splitter was by far the best defensive big on the floor for most of his time out there. He just couldn't play enough minutes.

[coachmac87]

Lmao at people not wanting to trade Splitter for Aldridge..I swear some people don't watch or know basketball.

First yes Splitter is a good "team" guy and a great team defender. But he gives you very little on offense...nothing is created on his own at all. Aldridge is one of the best if not the best offensive PF in the game. The pick and pop game does so much to create space in the paint and spreads the floor like Bonner used to do...but Aldridge is 100x more of a threat.

Also Aldridge is an average defender...but that can improve. There's a better chance he improves on defense than Splitter having an offensive game lol.


But the main reason Spurs do the trade or swap is the main reason which is the future. You're building around Aldridge and Leonard. Don't forget about that...I'll take Aldridge post Duncan era over Splitter any day of the week

[K...]

If we trade splitter it's an admission that we're retooling for a champ run 2-5 years from now. That might mean tanking for lottery next year. Splitter is what separates us first round out to champ contender.


But splitter is probably only really good for 2-3 years given his pace of injury. So, if you're the spurs do you roll with a value priced defensive big man, or a max level borderline all star?



Trade splitter for an asset. Sign 2 big men. High $ fa and budget big can offset the loss of the big man


Basically we have too many holes not to proceed with getting best available talent. At some point the loss of play making butts splitter's anemic offense making him a net negative.

[Mikeanaro]

Just trade him.

[BatManu20]

595986174281289728

[Chinook]

Basically we have too many holes not to proceed with getting best available talent.

Wait, what holes? I can see the argument that the Spurs are moribund and need to add some talent with upside. But it's not like they were had matchup disadvantages every game like they did in the pre-Medium Three era.

[K...]

Wait, what holes? I can see the argument that the Spurs are moribund and need to add some talent with upside. But it's not like they were had matchup disadvantages every game like they did in the pre-Medium Three era.

I'm not saying that a trade, even under the best scenario, would be better, only that a case exists to trade splitter in a larger context. Trading splitter for lma is both a chance at an overall better player and one that will not rely on Parker/gino.


Basically without offensive talent we have no shot at winning big. So better to roll the dice and try to fill he new holes rather than the existing holes (primary ball handler, sg, etc)

We could have an entirely new backcourt next year (Parker benched). So.consider splitter plus mystery backcourt vs lma vs mystery backcourt.

[Horse]

I'd love to keep them all but Boris can be a matchup nightmare. And although not the greatest defender his intangibles make up for it. He will ususally give you whatever you need.

[Chinook]

Basically we have too many holes not to proceed with getting best available talent.

Wait, what holes? I can see the argument that the Spurs are moribund and need to add some talent with upside. But it's not like they were had matchup disadvantages every game like they did in the pre-Medium Three era.

[Chinook]

Wait, what holes? I can see the argument that the Spurs are moribund and need to add some talent with upside. But it's not like they were had matchup disadvantages every game like they did in the pre-Medium Three era.

That's an odd repost

[RD2191]

Trade Tiago and be prepared for the Grizz owning the Spurs again.

[Chinook]

I'm not saying that a trade, even under the best scenario, would be better, only that a case exists to trade splitter in a larger context. Trading splitter for lma is both a chance at an overall better player and one that will not rely on Parker/gino.


Basically without offensive talent we have no shot at winning big. So better to roll the dice and try to fill he new holes rather than the existing holes (primary ball handler, sg, etc)

We could have an entirely new backcourt next year (Parker benched). So.consider splitter plus mystery backcourt vs lma vs mystery backcourt.

Lol first, Parker isn't being bench. If the Spurs were willing to bench Tony, they'd be wiling to trade him, and if that were the case, there'd be no reason to worry about Splitter or Aldridge.

Second, if this were just Tiago for LA straight up, that would be one thing. But Aldridge is slated to make twice as much as Splitter next season. And then you have to factor in the Spurs losing the MLE/LLE/RFAs/Bird rights. That's a lot of flexibility gone behind that getitng one player.

[K...]

Lol first, Parker isn't being bench. If the Spurs were willing to bench Tony, they'd be wiling to trade him, and if that were the case, there'd be no reason to worry about Splitter or Aldridge.

Second, if this were just Tiago for LA straight up, that would be one thing. But Aldridge is slated to make twice as much as Splitter next season. And then you have to factor in the Spurs losing the MLE/LLE/RFAs/Bird rights. That's a lot of flexibility gone behind that getitng one player.

Yeah, it's very risky, but these anonymous reports appear credible. So I'm not so much advocating for it, as trying to justify why they'd be gung I ho to trade their second or third best player.

I think Parker could be benched. Convince him to limit regular season minutes until he feels healthy. Let him play with diaw. In the past we've used bench offense to win games. Putting an experienced Parker there resurrects the bench after Manu, beli, and cojo leave.

I agree, most likely Parker is the spurs pg for next two years. But I guarantee the spurs are thinking about long term replacement. If the replacement comes sooner and if Parker comes back from France tired, convincing him to rest with limited minutes isn't unimaginable

[cjw]

There's a big difference between trading Splitter to cut cap space (similar to Asik trade, costing team a pick in the process) or seeing if a trade works where you get a lower cost asset back for Splitter. I think Splitter should have real trade value any other time of the year, but the big FA possibilities may make it hard to reap any return for him.

Best move may be a three team trade where (1) Spurs receive asset for Splitter, (2) team trading for Splitter deals dead money expiring deal to make dollars, (3) third team with cap space takes on dead money expiring deal plus picks from Spurs/other team. Something like this:

Spurs: receive cheap, productive player (FO would know best whom they would target) from either team B or C
Celtics: receive Splitter, filling a major hole for them
Sixers (or other team with space): receive Gerald Wallace's expiring corpse and picks from both Spurs and Celtics

An outcome like this is much more favorable than being forced into a situation where they have to trade a first or two just to move on from a good contract in Splitter because gun is held to Buford's head to fit Aldridge's contract.

[Juan]

Life after Tim people would rather have Tiago then Aldridge? Really? If a FA like Aldridge wants to come to SA you make it happen. Having Tiago and more flexibility later in life does no good if the Spurs can't lure any big name FA to sign here. The spurs have never been able to lure big time FAs. If Aldridge genuinely wants to be here and pair up with Leonard you make it happen. That's two great young players to build around post Duncan. You worry about putting the right pieces around them later.

[Chinook]

There's a big difference between trading Splitter to cut cap space (similar to Asik trade, costing team a pick in the process) or seeing if a trade works where you get a lower cost asset back for Splitter.

Asik went for the 18th overall pick. The Rockets didn't pay to move him. They did pay to move Lin, however. You're right that Splitter has positive value. But he has a ton to the Spurs as well. They aren't paying a pick to Philly to take him when a team like Boston has a TE they'd use to absorb him for free.

[PingPong]

Just wondering... if Kawhi leaves for some californian team?

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Life after Tim people would rather have Tiago then Aldridge? Really? If a FA like Aldridge wants to come to SA you make it happen. Having Tiago and more flexibility later in life does no good if the Spurs can't lure any big name FA to sign here. The spurs have never been able to lure big time FAs. If Aldridge genuinely wants to be here and pair up with Leonard you make it happen. That's two great young players to build around post Duncan. You worry about putting the right pieces around them later.

This, Aldridge and Leonard are a solid enough core that they will be able to lure another free agent (PG) here to get a Big 3. But if all we have is Leonard, thats not happening. Getting Aldridge is HUGE for our team long term if we want to remain competetive.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Just wondering... if Kawhi leaves for some californian team?

He wont

[PingPong]

Why not?

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Why not?

Has Tony left SA?

[K...]

Why not?

Restricted free agent you idiot. This had only been discussed all year.

[Spurs 4 The Win]

Restricted free agent you idiot. This had only been discussed all year.

I thought he meant long term

[Spur-Addict]

Restricted free agent you idiot. This had only been discussed all year.

:lol

[Vito Corleone]

Is there a possibly of trading our first and Splitter to move up to the top 12 - 15 picks.

[Ditty]

Trade Tiago and be prepared for the Grizz owning the Spurs again.

+1

Makes no sense getting Aldridge if we are getting rid of Tiago simple as that.

[monkeypunk]

I don't see any way that we can keep Duncan, Splitter and Bobo and add Aldridge. We're not a big market with tv money or the Nyets with unlimited rubles...

Duncan is mandatory if he wants to play. Splitter is awesome when healthy and Bobo is too much of a mismatch to let either go unless they want to move on. Lamarcus would be great to add but not at the expense of one of the others, imo.

[cjw]

Asik went for the 18th overall pick. The Rockets didn't pay to move him. They did pay to move Lin, however. You're right that Splitter has positive value. But he has a ton to the Spurs as well. They aren't paying a pick to Philly to take him when a team like Boston has a TE they'd use to absorb him for free.

Forgot Boston has the trade exception from the Rondo deal. They should be all over Splitter should the Spurs need the cap space. Wonder what the Spurs would be able to get back in the deal, if anything (with backs against the wall). Lots of time before this will shake itself out.

[TD 21]

I mentioned this before, but a Splitter to Atlanta for the 15th pick makes sense for both teams. Not just because Splitter played for Bud. He would be the 3rd big man and can play with either Milsap and Horford for around 20 mpg. His best season came when he started the season off the bench.

Spurs would shed about $7 million heading into the off season (including the cost of the 15th pick). Potentially having two 1st rounders [assuming they'd be able to keep the 26th pick] in never a bad thing for the Spurs (last time we got Kawhi and Cojo).

Atanta would still have around $17.5 million to resign Milsap and Carrol (they could move Scott to clear out around $21 million) They'd upgrade their front court with Splitter.

They can't trade Splitter at the draft, because they won't know at that point whether Aldridge is signing with them or not.

I think the Hawks would be more interested in Diaw than Splitter. Budenholzer is obsessed with shooting to the point where he never plays Horford, an elite mid range shooter, as an offensive PF (rarely as a defensive one, too).

The Bucks appear to be the best fit. They not only need a starting center, but could send back an inexpensive backup, Plumlee. A secondary asset would obviously be needed, such as a future pick swap based on certain conditions.

I still think Diaw makes more sense and is more likely to be traded than Splitter, if Aldridge signs. But I see the argument for trading Splitter: He'd more than likely fetch a better asset(s) and he's less durable.

[Spurs21Fan4Ever]

Trade Splitter for Anthony Davis!!!!! That'll work right?

[Arcadian]

Duncan/Aldridge/Splitter is a much better big rotation than Duncan/Aldridge/Diaw. Unless the Spurs have an awesome plan for a backup center, there's no way I'd rather have Boris.

I don't follow your logic. Aldridge is more similar to Splitter, hence Aldridge would be essentially replacing Splitter. Diaw is a very different player, as we know, he's a pure power forward (not a PF/C). So doesn't it make more sense to trade like for like?

Besides, Diaw is just a better player. So yes I'd rather keep Diaw.

[Beaverfuzz]

If Duncan comes back and Aldridge picks SA he's gone, otherwise Diaw will more than likely be moved.

Keep Diaw over Splitter, that's a no-brainer.

[Beaverfuzz]

:lol I don't even know where to go with that one.

Yeah no shit, I don't think Matt Barnes means what tholdren thinks it means. :lol

[Beaverfuzz]

Makes a lot of sense to prioritize retaining Diaw, especially if Manu is retiring. I actually suspect Diaw is in the near untouchable tier. He's extremely talented and versatile, very difficult to replace a player like that. He's also on a reasonable deal.

This, the putz has this one right.

[Chinook]

I don't follow your logic. Aldridge is more similar to Splitter,

Those two statements explain each other. Splitter and Aldridge are NOTHING alike. And as far as Diaw being the better players, they had a chance to go up against each other last summer. Splitter took Diaw's cookie just like he took LA's.

[DesignatedT]

Splitter is not a better overall player than Diaw. Sorry but no. He is three years younger though.

[ElNono]

Those two statements explain each other. Splitter and Aldridge are NOTHING alike. And as far as Diaw being the better players, they had a chance to go up against each other last summer. Splitter took Diaw's cookie just like he took LA's.

Except Splitter did no such thing. Brazil won by 2 points, and Huertas was the man of the match for Brazil, dropping 16 pts... Splitter on the other hand had a poor game, with 6/3...

Diaw was far and away the best French player that game, dropping 15/6/5...

http://www.fiba.com/basketballworldcup/2014/3008/FrancevBrazil#|tab=game_story

[Arcadian]

Splitter and Aldridge are NOTHING alike.

They're both PFCs, whereas Diaw is a pure forward. Hence, Splitter and Aldridge are more similar to each other than either is to Diaw.

[Chinook]

Except Splitter did no such thing. Brazil won by 2 points, and Huertas was the man of the match for Brazil, dropping 16 pts... Splitter on the other hand had a poor game, with 6/3...

Diaw was far and away the best French player that game, dropping 15/6/5...

http://www.fiba.com/basketballworldcup/2014/3008/FrancevBrazil#|tab=game_story

That's what you get from box score watching. If you get a chance to watch/rewatch the game, you'll see what I'm talking about. Diaw started off the tourney really well, and during the early parts of that game, he dominated Brazil's front line. But he got shut down as soon as Tiago switched onto him. Because that's what healthy Splitter does. I don't think there's another big in the league that can shut down so many different types of bigs. You don't just replace that.

[Chinook]

They're both PFCs, whereas Diaw is a pure forward. Hence, Splitter and Aldridge are more similar to each other than either is to Diaw.

No. Splitter is a center. There's no /PF in there. He's a mobile center, so he can guard power-forwards, like Aldridge. LA is a PF. He's not a center, even though he's big enough to play there. Diaw is a combo-forward who's hefty enough to play the five. I don't know why you consider him a "pure forward" when he's played at every position at some point in his career.

[Arcadian]

No. Splitter is a center. There's no /PF in there. He's a mobile center, so he can guard power-forwards, like Aldridge. LA is a PF. He's not a center, even though he's big enough to play there. Diaw is a combo-forward who's hefty enough to play the five. I don't know why you consider him a "pure forward" when he's played at every position at some point in his career.

Because he was a small forward for most of his NBA career, and then switched to PF.

And I consider almost any 7-footer with mobility a PFC. It's not like there's much of a non-arbitrary distinction there anyway, at least not in modern basketball.

[Chinook]

Because he was a small forward for most of his NBA career, and then switched to PF.

He was the center for the Suns during his breakout playoff series. He was drafted at PG. He's all over the map. And there's nothing wrong with that.


And I consider almost any 7-footer with mobility a PFC. It's not like there's much of a non-arbitrary distinction there anyway, at least not in modern basketball.

That completely ignores skill-sets. Splitter can't play with a traditional center, because he can't shoot well enough. He's also not particularly mobile if he's considered a power-forward. LA doesn't really have the inside game to play the five on either side. They're not similar at all.

[Arcadian]

Diaw should never be used as an NBA center. He's too short. I know Pop has done it, and he was wrong to do it. That's why we lost game 6 2013.

Point is, Splitter and Aldridge can play center, but Diaw can't (shouldn't).

And you're supporting my point by commenting on Diaw's versatility. Neither Splitter nor Aldridge are that versatile. Hence, they are more similar to each other than to Diaw.

Now, whether "similarity" alone justifies letting one go, I'm not sure. You make a good point about Splitter's defense. Maybe we don't want to lose that. But my intuitive judgment is that we should either keep Splitter or go after Aldridge, but not both.

[ElNono]

That's what you get from box score watching. If you get a chance to watch/rewatch the game, you'll see what I'm talking about. Diaw started off the tourney really well, and during the early parts of that game, he dominated Brazil's front line. But he got shut down as soon as Tiago switched onto him. Because that's what healthy Splitter does. I don't think there's another big in the league that can shut down so many different types of bigs. You don't just replace that.

No, I did watch the game. That's why what you posted made no sense. Boris had a terrific game, and Splitter was actually pretty darn bad, even though he did score on the overrated Gobert.

Batum kept jacking up 3s and missing. If not for Boris, that game would've been a blowout win for Brazil.

[TheGoldStandard]

Splitter will play this summer for his national team and further screw up his calf and vag.

[ElNono]

Splitter will play this summer for his national team and further screw up his calf and vag.

I don't think he will? I actually suspect Boris might...

[TheGoldStandard]

I don't think he will? I actually suspect Boris might...
That maybe true but there has to be a convincing display from management to show Tim why he should bother coming back this off season, if that means nobody plays for there national team and they get healthy then so be it. I just don't think they bring anything to the table another year older presently constructed

[ElNono]

That maybe true but there has to be a convincing display from management to show Tim why he should bother coming back this off season, if that means nobody plays for there national team and they get healthy then so be it. I just don't think they bring anything to the table another year older presently constructed

Management really can't do anything about NT play unless the player is injured, tbh

[DPG21920]

Management really can't do anything about NT play unless the player is injured, tbh

They can trade players.

[Arc]

diaw > splitter. splitter helped us get 5 but he's too injury prone, and if manu retires he's gonna be useless offensively. if we have to get rid of him to get LMA, well.. bye splitter!

[PingPong]

Restricted free agent you idiot. This had only been discussed all year.

Forever?

[Chinook]

No, I did watch the game. That's why what you posted made no sense. Boris had a terrific game, and Splitter was actually pretty darn bad, even though he did score on the overrated Gobert.

Batum kept jacking up 3s and missing. If not for Boris, that game would've been a blowout win for Brazil.

Boris didn't score on Splitter at all, even though he was the key to France's offense. Clearly, unless someone has a copy of the game for us to all watch, we're just going to disagree. But I don't think you remember it the same way I do, and you talking about Splitter's offense demonstrates that to me.

[ElNono]

They can trade players.

Well, technically true. Although Pop is a guy that has spoken highly of players representing their nation. I think a trade would involve more reasons than just playing for the NT...

[DPG21920]

I have to side with Chinook. I remember watching the game and Bobo really, really struggled vs Splitter.

[K...]

Forever?

in a way you are right, but the odds of Kawhi taking anything less than 3yrs are pretty low. So yes, in maybe 3 years he'll be a free agent. But the burden is on you really to explain why Kawhi won't take a 4-5 yr contract. He will. Who knows what 2020 is going to be like. We might be living int he singularity by then.



Anyway, part of the reasons this question pissed me off was Apo's 2nd dumbest thread this year "my sources say Kawhi is unhappy here and wants to leave" uh huh.

[DPG21920]

Well, technically true. Although Pop is a guy that has spoken highly of players representing their nation. I think a trade would involve more reasons than just playing for the NT...

Most likely, but with the injuries and things winding down, he may be more critical. Plus, it's easier to put up with it when its TP/Manu/Tim because they are stars; but other guys, especially after letting Tim down with subpar performaces might be viewed differently IMO.

[K...]

Splitter > Diaw. It's way easier to replace a PF then a true Center. Splitter is the king of subtle brilliance. If i though we could get value for Diaw i'd advocate trading him. But grumpy non motivated Boris is a top 5 league cancer so it's kind of hard to predict who would willingly take him. Whereas every team in the league would take Tiago on the current contract. Part of the reason I'd prefer to trade splitter is also because i think his trade value exceed diaws and he can bring back assets. But fuck that. Trade Diaw and Mills instead.


Diaw and LMA are more similar in that they are offensive minded big men. If diaw would shoot like every coach ever has wanted him I would be fine with him, but a passing big man who doesn't want to shoot and is losing his athleticism is less appealing to me than a center who will bang with the best when healthy.

[Chinook]

I have to side with Chinook. I remember watching the game and Bobo really, really struggled vs Splitter.

Yeah, Boris was player of the tourney up until that point. A couple of folks on ST were wondering if a Diaw-led France win would be enough to get Boris HoF consideration. He was tearing through Brazil easily in that game. But after Splitter switched onto him, France's offense fell apart.

[dabom]

Bobo is too short to defend. and tiago is a injury soft vagina. Bobo probably stays due to being close with tony.

[timtonymanu]

BoBo and Splitter were both huge contributors for getting #5. I don't know. I would hate to trade either player, even if a more talented player would be coming in. I would hate to break up a proven championship core for a soon to be 30 year old softie looking for a big contract. It better be worth it and not one of those RJ like trades that fuck us over. We already have that with the broken PG on the team. :lol

[ElNono]

Boris didn't score on Splitter at all, even though he was the key to France's offense. Clearly, unless someone has a copy of the game for us to all watch, we're just going to disagree. But I don't think you remember it the same way I do, and you talking about Splitter's offense demonstrates that to me.

IIRC, Splitter guarded Gobert most of the game. Which is why it makes no sense to say Splitter took Diaw's cookie. In the 4th quarter, Boris was actually the guy drawing fouls on Splitter.

The best Brazilian big that game was Varejao. He played much, much better than Tiago. He was boxing out and grabbing boards left and right.

Diaw was far and away the best French player on the court that day, except for the 3 ball, he missed very few shots, scored and assisted all the way to the 4th quarter...

If you want to make a case for Splitter having a great game/series over Boris, the Dallas series last playoffs would be a perfect example. Boris did hit a big 3, but was for the most part nondescript. Tiago was critical both on defense and offense.

[ElNono]

I have to side with Chinook. I remember watching the game and Bobo really, really struggled vs Splitter.

Disagree. He wasn't even the 2nd best big on Brazil that day. Varejao and Nene outplayed him. And Boris did pretty much whatever he wanted.

[TheGoldStandard]

It's all moot when you consider just how much further Parker might fall off. Defense might be the last of our worries as we struggle to dig out of holes with 20 ft jump shots all night long

[K...]

well i guess we need to have a one on one game between diaw and splitter. Loser gets traded. Hell, through in Ayrs and Baynes and say :"only one survives"

[Chinook]

IIRC, Splitter guarded Gobert most of the game.

Yes, which is why Diaw scored so well in that game. And why pulling up box score numbers doesn't really show the complete picture. Diaw was on a tear in that game, but Splitter absolutely stonewalled him. You've gone down the whole path and are simply refusing to accept the conclusion.

Diaw was the best player for France, in full 2.0 mode, and Splitter just snuffed him out. I don't know if I've seen another player shut out 2.0 like that. Add him to Aldridge coming off that Houston series, Dirk, Blake, Z-Bo. It's just, what do you expect at that point? I could see thinking they're close if Diaw were 2.0 all the time, but for all Tiago's overstated injury concerns, Diaw fails to show up almost as much. Boris has always been like having a level-100 pokemon at the beginning of the games, where they are extremely powerful, but they waste half the time loafing around.

Aldridge is likely to give you all of Diaw's production when factoring in an entire year's work. He won't give most of Tiago's though. Or think of it this way: Replace either Splitter or Diaw with LA in 2014. How do the playoffs shake out? Spurs most likely beat Miami and OKC with Aldridge's offense and there being no one to check him. But they'd probably lose to Dallas, since both Monta AND Dirk would have gone off on them.

[ElNono]

Yes, which is why Diaw scored so well in that game. And why pulling up box score numbers doesn't really show the complete picture. Diaw was on a tear in that game, but Splitter absolutely stonewalled him. You've gone down the whole path and are simply refusing to accept the conclusion.

Sorry, we disagree. Boris actually scored 9 of his 15pts in the 2nd half. If 'stonewalling' is allowing Boris to shoot 60% from 2 while letting him outrebound him and generally be the best player on the floor, then I'm not sure you have a good recollection of that game. We're just not going to agree on this.


Diaw was the best player for France, in full 2.0 mode, and Splitter just snuffed him out. I don't know if I've seen another player shut out 2.0 like that. Add him to Aldridge coming off that Houston series, Dirk, Blake, Z-Bo. It's just, what do you expect at that point? I could see thinking they're close if Diaw were 2.0 all the time, but for all Tiago's overstated injury concerns, Diaw fails to show up almost as much. Boris has always been like having a level-100 pokemon at the beginning of the games, where they are extremely powerful, but they waste half the time loafing around.

I love Tiago, this has nothing to do with that. I think Tiago is more disposable than Diaw simply because how this team is constructed. It's a lot easier to find a stout center than to find a versatile playmaker, especially when you already have a top of the game center in Duncan (even with his limitations on mobility).

Not to mention that our team really turned a corner defensively when we augmented our perimeter defense, which in today's game is way more important than interior D.


Aldridge is likely to give you all of Diaw's production when factoring in an entire year's work. He won't give most of Tiago's though. Or think of it this way: Replace either Splitter or Diaw with LA in 2014. How do the playoffs shake out? Spurs most likely beat Miami and OKC with Aldridge's offense and there being no one to check him. But they'd probably lose to Dallas, since both Monta AND Dirk would have gone off on them.

I'm not particularly a fan of Aldrige. But he's no playmaker, and our bench would've nowhere near fared the same without Bobo last season (or this season, really). Playmaking is an actual deficit on this team, and will be an even bigger issue if Manu walks away.

Which is why my impression is that Boris is very likely on the untradeable tier for this team. Which doesn't mean Tiago is 'expendable' or anything like that. It's just that he has the contract that could bring the better value back.

[Chinook]

Sorry, we disagree. Boris actually scored 9 of his 15pts in the 2nd half. If 'stonewalling' is allowing Boris to shoot 60% from 2 while letting him outrebound him and generally be the best player on the floor, then I'm not sure you have a good recollection of that game. We're just not going to agree on this.

Sure, we're not going to agree on this. But pointing to the box score doesn't prove anything. I've made threads specifically to delve further into defense for that very reason.


I love Tiago, this has nothing to do with that. I think Tiago is more disposable than Diaw simply because how this team is constructed. It's a lot easier to find a stout center than to find a versatile playmaker, especially when you already have a top of the game center in Duncan (even with his limitations on mobility).

Not to mention that our team really turned a corner defensively when we augmented our perimeter defense, which in today's game is way more important than interior D.

Calling Splitter a "stout center" is like calling Z-Bo a post scorer. Sure, it's descriptive enough on its own, but it completely undersells the player. Splitter's D is not going to be easy to replace. There isn't a big in the league who can do all the things Tiago can on that end, and the ones who are close are making a lot more money than he is. Diaw when he's on is a match up nightmare. But at the same time, he's only necessary because the Spurs don't have a reliable offensive big. You don't need as much 'play-making' when you have bona fide offensive players to give the ball to. As far as the bench goes, the Spurs had an awesome one with Bonner playing next to Tiago a few years ago. Sure, that was with a younger Manu, but it's not like Diaw is going to be running PnRs either.


I'm not particularly a fan of Aldrige. But he's no playmaker, and our bench would've nowhere near fared the same without Bobo last season (or this season, really). Playmaking is an actual deficit on this team, and will be an even bigger issue if Manu walks away.

Which is why my impression is that Boris is very likely on the untradeable tier for this team. Which doesn't mean Tiago is 'expendable' or anything like that. It's just that he has the contract that could bring the better value back.

I think you undersell how good of a bench big Tiago was. The dude used to eat teams alive as the role-man with Manu. Do the Spurs need to make sure they have play-making at the guard spots? Sure, I'd love to see more. But that's not all that hard to get. Look at DJ Augustin in OKC. The Spurs aren't going to go Boris-centric for the bench in any event. Also, Tiago is a great play-maker himself. He's not going to draw a much of doubles in the post, be he certainly can distribute extremely well, especially when he's already in a rhythm.

[cd021]

They're both PFCs, whereas Diaw is a pure forward. Hence, Splitter and Aldridge are more similar to each other than either is to Diaw.

I wouldn't call L.A. a PF/C. He can play center for a few minutes a night but that doesn't make him a combo. Splitter essentially starts at PF and plays backup center in the playoffs but that doesn't nessicarily make him a combo big either. Splitter is a center and L.A. is a power forward.

They really aren't that similar. Especially considering a big part of L.As game is mid range based. The bulk of Splitters is screen and rolls and the occasion post up.

[cjw]

Splitter is certainly the more valuable player, but is also more likely to be dealt:

- Cancer Diaw will turn off many teams
- Splitter creates more cap space
- Splitter will bring back more value
- Spurs can run offense through Bobo and may be down Manu+ others next year

[james evans]

signing him to that bullshit deal was dumb as fuck anyway.

[ElNono]

Sure, we're not going to agree on this. But pointing to the box score doesn't prove anything. I've made threads specifically to delve further into defense for that very reason.

What part of the boxscore says Boris scored 9 of of his 15 points in the 2nd half? How is "I watched the game" better than actual measurable impact? I watched the game too, and I just can't agree with Splitter taking anybody's cookie in that game.
Sorry, I generally agree with your takes, and I certainly appreciate those defense threads, but I just can't agree on this one.


Calling Splitter a "stout center" is like calling Z-Bo a post scorer. Sure, it's descriptive enough on its own, but it completely undersells the player. Splitter's D is not going to be easy to replace. There isn't a big in the league who can do all the things Tiago can on that end, and the ones who are close are making a lot more money than he is. Diaw when he's on is a match up nightmare. But at the same time, he's only necessary because the Spurs don't have a reliable offensive big. You don't need as much 'play-making' when you have bona fide offensive players to give the ball to. As far as the bench goes, the Spurs had an awesome one with Bonner playing next to Tiago a few years ago. Sure, that was with a younger Manu, but it's not like Diaw is going to be running PnRs either.

Tiago complements Timmy very well. I always credited him for giving Timmy a 2nd wind. He has everything Tim no longer has: he's mobile, he's an excellent P&R defender and he has allowed Tim not to have to bang with the other team's more physical players. He's a great fit for the Spurs (when healthy). I'm actually not sold he'll look anywhere near as good defensively playing on a different team. So in a 'fit' sense, I would agree it wouldn't be 'easy' to replace. But neither is Diaw. Your assessment that Aldrige would take away Boris' luster as a playmaker on this team is, IMO, misguided.

At the end of the day, the Spurs still won 55 games with a gimpy Tiago this season, still had a top 5 defense, and largely the biggest issue all season long was the offense.


I think you undersell how good of a bench big Tiago was. The dude used to eat teams alive as the role-man with Manu. Do the Spurs need to make sure they have play-making at the guard spots? Sure, I'd love to see more. But that's not all that hard to get. Look at DJ Augustin in OKC. The Spurs aren't going to go Boris-centric for the bench in any event. Also, Tiago is a great play-maker himself. He's not going to draw a much of doubles in the post, be he certainly can distribute extremely well, especially when he's already in a rhythm.

See, I think you're underselling Gino. He's the guy that made guys like DeJuan Blair look like an NBA player. As a matter of fact, it's hard to think anybody else Tiago had a good thing going on offense with in this team. But the biggest reason is that none of our other guards generally can even run a P&R with anybody. That's why having a versatile playmaker is crucial, especially if Manu does walk away.

Plus, again, he's just the guy with the contract that, IMO, can bring the better assets back. That's why I'm not surprised to hear rumors about the Spurs wanting to move him.

[DPG21920]

Nono, when Tiago is healthy, and in the SL, the Spurs had incredible offense and that was without Manu. Tiago was also great on the bench too, but he was very good with the SL and the offense worked once Pop finally committed to playing TnT together.

[ElNono]

Nono, when Tiago is healthy, and in the SL, the Spurs had incredible offense and that was without Manu. Tiago was also great on the bench too, but he was very good with the SL and the offense worked once Pop finally committed to playing TnT together.

Our better offensive and defensive players are in the SL... I don't deny Tiago's impact, especially defensively, on the SL... as I said, I thought he complements Tim extremely well, and IIRC, when you look at metrics, defensively, that SL is miles ahead of any other lineup.

Then again, I don't think that invalidates what I said: it's difficult to think Tiago having a good thing going offensively with anybody other than with Gino...

[DPG21920]

You mean off the bench? Because if he's in a SL without Gino and it's great, that shows he can be a part of a functioning offense without Manu.

[ElNono]

You mean off the bench? Because if he's in a SL without Gino and it's great, that shows he can be a part of a functioning offense without Manu.

I think him individually has very little to do with the offense in the SL... which is perfectly fine, as that lineup has at least two of our best offensive players (3 when Tony is playing at a high level too).

I actually think that's on purpose. The shot allocation in that lineup is pretty much taken.

[ezau]

Tiago is one of the best defensive players in the center position in the league today. He could check the likes of Z-Bo, Dirk, and Aldrige while anchoring the team's PNR defense. I really like Tiago as a player, but he always struggles offensively. He can't shoot a jumper to save his life, and even if he is brilliant off the PNR, he will most likely miss a layup. I do think Splitter regressed somewhat as far as offense goes, which is why the team is looking into trading him.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

If the options are tradeing Splitter or Bobo in order to create room for Aldridge I'd definitely prefer them trading Splitter. Bobo is much more versatile and the Spurs would definitely need more playmaking in the second unit. On the other hand Splitter's offensive value would be very low without Manu feeding him off of the PnR. Sure, they'll sacrifice on defense but having Aldridge will make up for it offensively. The increase in talent would be substantial.

Don't even want to address the idea of not trading Splitter to make room for Aldridge :lol talent > fit

[Leetonidas]

Seriously, we're talking about the next 5 years here, and a player like Aldridge, even if he isn't top 5 in the league, is still a legit AS big man and him + Kawhi will at the very least keep the Spurs relevant. Splitter is one of my favorite players but he is a soft vagina and while he is great defensively is offensive game is pretty bad

[kobyz]

Spurs should have just win the title this year, let Duncan retire and call it an era and go rebuilding mode through the draft... Instead we are now in a mess... Why Pop why???

[spurraider21]

on the spurs as currently constructed, imo boris is more important. parker and manu aren't reliable playmakers anymore. kawhi is expanding his offensive ability, but he's not great at creating for others yet. Diaw makes things work for the team, he makes guys like Danny and Patty much better offensively.

but if the spurs were to bring in aldridge? i'd much rather let diaw go instead of splitter. you can play splitter and aldridge as a pair and they'd do well together on both ends. diaw and aldridge would get slaughtered on D. also, by bringing in a scorer like LMA, it sorta decreases the need for a playmaker like boris because defenses are already gravitating to LMA, opening up the floor for other players. look at guys like wes matthews on portland...

[Strange Love]

I hope this happens.

[Twisted_Dawg]

There's nowhere to go - Barnes came up Bigger than KL and put a stamp on the series game 1.

Splitter is anti-momentum.

Nothing you can say can validate Splitter, a consistently shitty playoff performing starter who couldnt even find minutes in Finals series. WHY STICK WITH THAT

You forgot to mention that she is chronically injured.

[cd021]

They can't trade Splitter at the draft, because they won't know at that point whether Aldridge is signing with them or not.

I think the Hawks would be more interested in Diaw than Splitter. Budenholzer is obsessed with shooting to the point where he never plays Horford, an elite mid range shooter, as an offensive PF (rarely as a defensive one, too).

The Bucks appear to be the best fit. They not only need a starting center, but could send back an inexpensive backup, Plumlee. A secondary asset would obviously be needed, such as a future pick swap based on certain conditions.

I still think Diaw makes more sense and is more likely to be traded than Splitter, if Aldridge signs. But I see the argument for trading Splitter: He'd more than likely fetch a better asset(s) and he's less durable.


Toronto ,maybe, is another team that could be interested in him. They don't love/ trust Valanciunas and they were really bad defensively this season. They have two 1st rounders next season, one from the Knicks.


I hadn't considered Milwaukee. Miles Plumlee, Damien Inglis, and lottery protected 2016 1st round pick (probably in the 15-18 range) for Splitter, is a pretty good haul if the Spurs are looking to "dump" his deal if the Spurs can land Aldridge.

Inglis was the 31st pick last season and is an intriguing, young, prospect on a dirt cheap 4 year rookie deal ($885,000 next season). [http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damien-Inglis-6428/]


Its hard to gauge Diaws value. He has a rep. for checking out if the situation isn't to his liking. His contact is far from bad something like $15 million guaranteed over the next two seasons but Splitter is probably the easier of the two to be traded.

He is an above average big, elite defensively (when healthy) and is only 30 years old on a descending contract that only pays $8.5 million next off season where the cap jumps to almost $90 million.

Both would be good fits in Atlanta. I feel that Splitter makes more sense for that team though, but Bud does seem to favor bigs that can shoot. The Spurs couldn't actually make that trade until July, 1st because the Hawks are at the salary cap line.

[kobyz]

If we trade tiago or boris and after we get la, assuming duncan continue, i also hope we add darrell arthur, he is a perfect fourth big...

[-21-]

Trade Splitter, keep Green. KEEP DANNY GREEN.

[TD 21]

Toronto ,maybe, is another team that could be interested in him. They don't love/ trust Valanciunas and they were really bad defensively this season. They have two 1st rounders next season, one from the Knicks.


I hadn't considered Milwaukee. Miles Plumlee, Damien Inglis, and lottery protected 2016 1st round pick (probably in the 15-18 range) for Splitter, is a pretty good haul if the Spurs are looking to "dump" his deal if the Spurs can land Aldridge.

Inglis was the 31st pick last season and is an intriguing, young, prospect on a dirt cheap 4 year rookie deal ($885,000 next season). [http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damien-Inglis-6428/]


Its hard to gauge Diaws value. He has a rep. for checking out if the situation isn't to his liking. His contact is far from bad something like $15 million guaranteed over the next two seasons but Splitter is probably the easier of the two to be traded.

He is an above average big, elite defensively (when healthy) and is only 30 years old on a descending contract that only pays $8.5 million next off season where the cap jumps to almost $90 million.

Both would be good fits in Atlanta. I feel that Splitter makes more sense for that team though, but Bud does seem to favor bigs that can shoot. The Spurs couldn't actually make that trade until July, 1st because the Hawks are at the salary cap line.

True, but they're more interested in finding a starting PF and with Valanciunas likely to get Vucevic money, they can't afford for his backup to be pricey, unless it's someone who can also play alongside him, like Johnson.

Yeah, a lottery protected 1st should be the Spurs priority; not a pick swap. I'm pretty sure the Bucks are high on Inglis, given that it sounded unlikely last year that he'd come over immediately, yet they gave him well over the starting salary for a 2nd. Either way, he shouldn't be a deal breaker.

It is hard to gauge Diaw's value, but despite his reputation, he should be easy to move, just not for as much as Splitter.

Positionally, Splitter makes more sense for the Hawks, but I suspect they'd prefer Diaw. Even though they don't have a true starting C, as I alluded to, they prefer Horford as a C, plus have Antic as a rare stretch C, are developing Muscala to be the same and supposedly love Tavares.