Where 96 Free Throw Attempts in Regulation Happens

[DMC]

Anyone who thinks James Harden is a MVP level guy also must have loved the game tonight. Free throw shooting contest, with Houston racking up 64 FTA (intentional fouling partly to blame).

How can anyone pay to watch that shit?

[Clipper Nation]

Somehow all the media attention is on Hack-a-Shaq when Harden's bullshit style of play is the real problem. Hack-a-Shaq is a situational strategy, Harden flops and jerks his head back to get calls literally all game. It's unwatchable.

[DMC]

It's unwatchable sure, but on the replays the foul is almost always there. It's almost always there on everyone though, they just don't call it. Wild hair and the beard are tools to get ref attention.

[Mikeanaro]

How the hell that happened? It thought it was a joke, 64 ft for Rox, wasnt Uncle Tom saying hack a donkey should be banned?

[DMC]

How the hell that happened? It thought it was a joke, 64 ft for Rox, wasnt Uncle Tom saying hack a donkey should be banned?
So did Pop, but they both said it's in the rules and whatever they have to do within the rules to win they will.

[djohn2oo8]

Somehow all the media attention is on Hack-a-Shaq when Harden's bullshit style of play is the real problem. Hack-a-Shaq is a situational strategy, Harden flops and jerks his head back to get calls literally all game. It's unwatchable.

So you only have a problem when a player can make the free throws? :lol

[Mikeanaro]

So did Pop, but they both said it's in the rules and whatever they have to do within the rules to win they will.
Yeah but Uncle Tom was complaining too much, saying Demonkey was staring at him like saying ¨you guys gotta stop this¨ every time he was hacked, seems nobody has nothing to say about hacks now that Spurs are done for the season, or maybe Im wrong and there will be some media treatment.

[100%duncan]

Disgusting

[Clipper Nation]

So you only have a problem when a player can make the free throws? :lol

I have a problem when a player literally doesn't even try to play basketball and only ever tries to refball his way to the line. On the rare occasions where he doesn't get the foodstamps, he just lazily chucks up bad shots and is a turnover machine.

[Clipper Nation]

BTW, it's funny how Dumbjohn was nowhere to be found after Game 1 but is all over the place now.

Needing 64 free throws to barely beat Junior and Crawful at home :lmao

[djohn2oo8]

I have a problem when a player literally doesn't even try to play basketball and only ever tries to refball his way to the line. On the rare occasions where he doesn't get the foodstamps, he just lazily chucks up bad shots and is a turnover machine.

But in the same sentence earlier, you are saying it's ok to send players to the free throw line who are shitty at making free throws. So you really don't mind free throw attempts unless said player is good at them.

[djohn2oo8]

BTW, it's funny how Dumbjohn was nowhere to be found after Game 1 but is all over the place now.

Needing 64 free throws to barely beat Junior and Crawful at home :lmao
All.over the place? I've posted in 2 or 3 threads. Calm your tits.

[Clipper Nation]

But in the same sentence earlier, you are saying it's ok to send players to the free throw line who are shitty at making free throws. So you really don't mind free throw attempts unless said player is good at them.

I mind when free throws aren't earned by being legitimately fouled. Even the Hack-a-Shaq strategy requires intentional fouls. Harden can just jerk his head back, flop, or jump into players and get rewarded every time with free throws. There's a difference.

And with the way he plays, he'd better make his free throws. Not like he can do anything else really, considering how badly he gets exposed in the rare games where the refs don't buy his bullshit.

[djohn2oo8]

I mind when free throws aren't earned by being legitimately fouled. Even the Hack-a-Shaq strategy requires intentional fouls. Harden can just jerk his head back, flop, or jump into players and get rewarded every time with free throws. There's a difference.

And with the way he plays, he'd better make his free throws. Not like he can do anything else really, considering how badly he gets exposed in the rare games where the refs don't buy his bullshit.
Okay. Like I said, you don't mind guys going to the free throw line when they suck at free throws. Can't be okay for one and not the other. Either you hate the attempts or you don't. Earned or not.

[Clipper Nation]

Okay. Like I said, you don't mind guys going to the free throw line when they suck at free throws. Can't be okay for one and not the other. Either you hate the attempts or you don't. Earned or not.

Nope. I've clearly explained multiple times now that free throws are fine if they're a result of the player actually being fouled, not if they're foodstamps given out for Harden's acting jobs. It has nothing to do with whether or not they can make them.

And really, my original point was that it's hypocritical of the league to address Hack-a-Shaq when Harden's playstyle is even more unwatchable to the casual fan for a lot of the same reasons.

[djohn2oo8]

Nope. I've clearly explained multiple times now that free throws are fine if they're a result of the player actually being fouled, not if they're foodstamps given out for Harden's acting jobs. It has nothing to do with whether or not they can make them.

And really, my original point was that it's hypocritical of the league to address Hack-a-Shaq when Harden's playstyle is even more unwatchable to the casual fan for a lot of the same reasons.
So if Harden got to the line a lot and couldn't make them, you would still have a problem? Ok then.

[Clipper Nation]

So if Harden got to the line a lot and couldn't make them, you would still have a problem? Ok then.
Yes I would, actually, because he'd still be interrupting the flow of the entire game from start to finish with his schtick, and he'd still be getting opposing players in fraudulent foul trouble.

[100%duncan]

What's sad is that Djohn is forced to defend Harden's style of play but we all know he doesn't enjoy any of that shit :lol

[cd021]

"J Crossover" 6-22, 1-8 from 3.

37% in the postseason. Guy is the hottest of trash.

[unleashbaynes]

What's sad is that Djohn is forced to defend Harden's style of play but we all knows he doesn't enjoy any of that shit :lol

:rollin

[djohn2oo8]

What's sad is that Djohn is forced to defend Harden's style of play but we all know he doesn't enjoy any of that shit :lol

What's funnier is spurfan shitting on it when Harden is a carbon copy of Manu :lol

[100%duncan]

What's funnier is spurfan shitting on it when Harden is a carbon copy of Manu :lol

Manu actually drove to the rim to score and not to force contact and nah-uh you don't get to make that claim when one is a winner, clutch playoff performer and the other is nothing has a knack of disappearing in these months. :lol

Here are the links of their career stats:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html 4.3 FTA average and never averaged more than 6 FTA per game.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html 7.2 FTA average and 10.2 FTA per game in his prime :lol

But go on tell me how you enjoy watching Harden shoot freethrows.

[baseline bum]

What's funnier is spurfan shitting on it when Harden is a carbon copy of Manu :lol

Both are great third options, though only one shows up in the playoffs.

[djohn2oo8]

Manu actually drove to the rim to score and not to force contact and nah-uh you don't get to make that claim when one is a winner, clutch playoff performer and the other is nothing has a knack of disappearing in these months. :lol

Here are the links of their career stats:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html 4.3 FTA average and never averaged more than 6 FTA per game.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html 7.2 FTA average and 10.2 FTA per game in his prime :lol

But go on tell me how you enjoy watching Harden shoot freethrows.

Prime Manu was an Oscar worthy flopper. It's hypocritical.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Prime Manu was an Oscar worthy flopper. It's hypocritical.

Indeed he was. And he topped out at 6 FTA per game. Not sure what Harden is @ 10+

[GuerillaBlack]

Manu actually drove to the rim to score and not to force contact and nah-uh you don't get to make that claim when one is a winner, clutch playoff performer and the other is nothing has a knack of disappearing in these months. :lol

Here are the links of their career stats:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/ginobma01.html 4.3 FTA average and never averaged more than 6 FTA per game.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hardeja01.html 7.2 FTA average and 10.2 FTA per game in his prime :lol

But go on tell me how you enjoy watching Harden shoot freethrows.

Sorry brah, but posting FTAs does not prove your point. What about the amount of and1s between the two players? How how many points in the paint did each average? Go look that up.

[djohn2oo8]

Indeed he was. And he topped out at 6 FTA per game. Not sure what Harden is @ 10+

Manu only averaged 30 or more minutes per game twice. Harden has been at 38, 38, and 36 the last three seasons. So don't act like minutes were the same. Still, if you condone flopping for your own players, don't condemn others for it.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Manu only averaged 30 or more minutes per game twice. Harden has been at 38, 38, and 36 the last three seasons. So don't act like minutes were the same. Still, if you condone flopping for your own players, don't condemn others for.

Per 36 minutes :
Manu - 7.3
Harden - 10

Try again.

[100%duncan]

Prime Manu was an Oscar worthy flopper. It's hypocritical.

Nice deflection. Manu never drove for whistles :lol He is one of the most blatant floppers ever but on the defensive end with charging calls., he was never on the durant and crawford tier for flailing on jumpshots and certainly not on Harden's, dude doesn't even look at the rim sometimes. But sure let's revise history since it's cool. And no, he still ain't a carbon copy especially not in the playoffs.

[100%duncan]

Sorry brah, but posting FTAs does not prove your point. What about the amount of and1s between the two players? How how many points in the paint did each average? Go look that up.

Why don't you? I've provided numbers,facts and the eye-test backs me up. Your turn.

[djohn2oo8]

Nice deflection. Manu never drove for whistles :lol He is one of the most blatant floppers ever but on the defensive end with charging calls., he was never on the durant and crawford tier for flailing on jumpshots and certainly not on Harden's, dude doesn't even look at the rim sometimes. But sure let's revise history since it's cool. And no, he still ain't a carbon copy especially not in the playoffs.

So if you are hit on the arm while going to.the rim, is it not a foul? And bullshit. Manu was one of the most blatant floppers on offense too. Or when Duncan throws his arms In the air in the post while falling sideways to get calls.I Don't hate them.for.it, it's effective. Or Parker's ballerina acts on the way to the rim. But again, it's hypocritical.

[100%duncan]

So if you are hit on the arm while going to.the rim, is it not a foul? And bullshit. Manu was one of the most blatant flippers on offense too.

Damn you're reaching :lol It's not about technicality, it's the style of Harden's play. He gets hit the slightest of touches and then flails like a bitch, and does that shooting bullshit motion without even looking at the ring :lol

Then show me some vids or even articles of him getting called out for that. As I've said Manu is a blatant flopper but never on the offensive end. He never drove and fished for fouls/freethrows as shown in the averages but you seem to not grasp around the concept.

[djohn2oo8]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/03/21/manu-earns-place-on-espn-coms-all-floppers-first-team/


Damn you're reaching :lol It's not about technicality, it's the style of Harden's play. He gets hit the slightest of touches and then flails like a bitch, and does that shooting bullshit motion without even looking at the ring :lol

Then show me some vids or even articles of him getting called out for that. As I've said Manu is a blatant flopper but never on the offensive end. He never drove and fished for fouls/freethrows as shown in the averages but you seem to not grasp around the concept.

[djohn2oo8]

Manu Ginobili’s ability to sell fouls with a little dramatic flair always has been known around the NBA.

So it’s no surprised when he was tabbed on the first team of ESPN.com’s “All-Floppers” team.

Ginobili shares a first-team position at guard with Raja Bell. Other first-team selections on Beckley Mason’s team include Chris Paul, Paul Pierce, Luis Scola and Ben Wallace.

Here’s what Mason has to say about Ginobili’s inclusion with Bell on the team:

“Raja Bell/Manu Ginobili, SG: Controversial decision to include both of them here, but really these two have given so much to the game. Manu with his whiplash-inducing head thrashes as he drives to the basket and Raja Bell with his ability to be thrown backwards by the slightest of contact.”




Plenty of articles. Google it yourself.

[100%duncan]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2012/03/21/manu-earns-place-on-espn-coms-all-floppers-first-team/

Most of those were him on the ground, being injured or on the defensive end taking the charge. wtf?

All this manu comparison aside though, do you enjoy watching Harden shoot freethrows? No trolling or jokes. Do you defend him because he's on your team?

[100%duncan]

A joke made in jest by Mason which was literally your only "proof" on Manu on the offensive end :lol The rest of it was pointed out by me already and that Manu was a blatant flopper. :lol Damn, reaching.

[djohn2oo8]

Most of those were him on the ground, being injured or on the defensive end taking the charge. wtf?

All this manu comparison aside though, do you enjoy watching Harden shoot freethrows? No trolling or jokes. Do you defend him because he's on your team?

I don't care about the free throws. I care how he responds when he isn't getting them. If the team is winning because of it, then sure.

[RD2191]

Lol james haren (no d) would average 15 ppg without his 10 free throws per game. Dude is the biggest flopper of all time. And the media has always ripped on the Spurs. Manu sold a foul after contact. Harden falls and starts flailing without ever being touched.

[cantthinkofanything]

So if you are hit on the arm while going to.the rim, is it not a foul? And bullshit. Manu was one of the most blatant floppers on offense too. Or when Duncan throws his arms In the air in the post while falling sideways to get calls.I Don't hate them.for.it, it's effective. Or Parker's ballerina acts on the way to the rim. But again, it's hypocritical.

I don't remember Manu flopping much when he took the ball to the rim. He was looking to make the shot, not get bailed out. Most of Manu's flopping seemed to come when he was trying to draw a charging call.

[100%duncan]

I don't care about the free throws. I care how he responds when he isn't getting them. If the team is winning because of it, then sure.

But do you enjoy them? I just want an answer.

[djohn2oo8]

But do you enjoy them? I just want an answer.

It helps the team. So yeah. I don't know anyone who doesn't want their team to get free throws . Hell Clipper Nation complains about ref assignments before the games even start.

[GuerillaBlack]

Why don't you? I've provided numbers,facts and the eye-test backs me up. Your turn.

You didn't provide anything. Just their average FTAs which does not prove that one player just looks for a foul while the other tries to score. Points in the paint and completed and1s would provide a better picture.

[Spurs9]

Its nauseating to watch

[DarrinS]

It only took 7½ quarters for the team to get their crowd into it. :lmao

[sook]

intentionally fouling for 27 FTA...then bitching about it. Stfu Griffin :lmao

[djohn2oo8]

It only took 7½ quarters for the team to get their crowd into it. :lmao

Yeah Houston crowds blow.

[StrengthAndHonor]

Give Houston props. They turned up the intensity during the second half. A lot of our players became too ISO centric and made critical turnovers (reddick and rivers) Dwight has been a beast this series. I love watching him and DJ go at it defensively. I'm excited for Game 3.

[sook]

Give Houston props. They turned up the intensity during the second half. A lot of our players became too ISO centric and made critical turnovers (reddick and rivers) Dwight has been a beast this series. I love watching him and DJ go at it defensively. I'm excited for Game 3.

:tu Tbh, the second Reddick starts making his shots its all over...thats what happened game 1. I said he was the X factor and will stick by it.

[100%duncan]

You didn't provide anything. Just their average FTAs which does not prove that one player just looks for a foul while the other tries to score. Points in the paint and completed and1s would provide a better picture.

Waiting for you to provide something more than words. Give me a better picture.

[DMC]

"J Crossover" 6-22, 1-8 from 3.

37% in the postseason. Guy is the hottest of trash.
He was horrific last night, terribad. Dude was chucking up shit that had almost zero chance of going in. Blake seems to be physically done by the middle of the 3rd quarter in these games. That makes me wonder about his conditioning. Sure he's a beast when he's on but he runs out of gas pretty quickly. The entire team does that though, and if they'd quell that screaming, chest thumping shit they do any time they score, maybe some of that energy would be reserved for the 4th.

[DMC]

:tu Tbh, the second Reddick starts making his shots its all over...thats what happened game 1. I said he was the X factor and will stick by it.
Reddick looked like shit as well. Dude was handing the ball to the other team, blowing fast breaks, fucking up in just about any way imaginable.

[UZER]

He was horrific last night, terribad. Dude was chucking up shit that had almost zero chance of going in. Blake seems to be physically done by the middle of the 3rd quarter in these games. That makes me wonder about his conditioning. Sure he's a beast when he's on but he runs out of gas pretty quickly. The entire team does that though, and if they'd quell that screaming, chest thumping shit they do any time they score, maybe some of that energy would be reserved for the 4th.

He won't have pop to bail him out with in game rest this series.

[DMC]

Funny thing about these disparities and absurd FT numbers; any time you see them you also see the caveat "but the (fill in name here) team had a chance late to tie or win the game, so it's not really about that". It's true that the Clippers played shitball in the 2nd half, and Doc bringing in his retarded son to play big minutes was part of the problem (the 3rd string guy was worse tbh), but mostly it was Crawford and how the rest of the team treats him like he's a sure thing any time he touches the ball.

Doc is a horrible late game coach, he starts watching the game instead of coaching it.

[Clipper Nation]

He was horrific last night, terribad. Dude was chucking up shit that had almost zero chance of going in. Blake seems to be physically done by the middle of the 3rd quarter in these games. That makes me wonder about his conditioning. Sure he's a beast when he's on but he runs out of gas pretty quickly. The entire team does that though, and if they'd quell that screaming, chest thumping shit they do any time they score, maybe some of that energy would be reserved for the 4th.

We don't have a bench, and any time either of our starting bigs came out, it was a disaster because Doc refused to put in length. Big Baby being asked to guard Dwight Howard :lmao need I say more. Also, unlike the league golden boys in the Bay Area, we don't get a rigged schedule with practically a week off between games. The last time this team got more than a day of rest was between Games 1 and 2 of the Spurs series. So it's no surprise that Blake's gassed half the time.

Crawful doesn't belong anywhere near a playoff team, as he's repeatedly proven in Atlanta and LA. Dude is tailor-made for a tanking team.

[Clipper Nation]

Prime Manu was an Oscar worthy flopper. It's hypocritical.

You're right, Harden is like Manu.... Manu in 6, that is :lol

[DMC]

From a viewing perspective, it's horrible shit. From a basketball perspective, it's tainted the game to the point of being a gimmick. If exaggerating contact is required to get a foul call, that's fine. Using that exaggeration to do nothing to get to the line is a gimmick. It's not against the rules obviously, but it puts Harden's game into perspective. If you assess Shaq's game with a hand wave dismissal his his horrible FT shooting (which most do), you're saying FTs aren't a true indicator of a player's basketball acumen. After all, even end of the bench guys can shoot FTs. So then the same applies to Harden's game. If you dismiss his FT shooting, what you have left is a guy who occasionally hits a 3 or gets into the paint for a score. He's got good to great handles, a crazy eurostep cross over and his understanding of where his defender is at all times is off the charts. Dismiss his FT shooting though and he's a middle of the pack player.

If Shaq/Jordan became 70% or better FT shooters, the league would be a much different place today. You'd probably not be able to stop Jordan if he could shoot from outside and hit the FT as well. Imagine Dirk with Jordan's athleticism and tenacity. Game over. It don't happen though, not yet, but it will some day. Imagine if Blake Griffin had some arc on his shot instead of that line drive to the front of the rim. The same applies to Tim Duncan.

These guys have such great talents but there's a fundamental issue with all of them that limits their games. CP3's shot with Duncan's size and fundamentals would be terrifying to an opponent. Imagine Steph Curry is 6'11" and can still shoot from outside like that.

[ambchang]

Prime Manu was an Oscar worthy flopper. It's hypocritical.

Anecdotal, and not backed up by data.


Sorry brah, but posting FTAs does not prove your point. What about the amount of and1s between the two players? How how many points in the paint did each average? Go look that up.

Not sure how the number of and1s would prove a point.

If you want to talk about attempts, Harden attempts 30.4% of his shots from 0-3 feet, Manu sits at 29.6%, which I would say the two are fairly similar. That said, Harden averaged slightly more FGA from 3s, which is the type of shots that gets the least amounts of FTs, and I am just talking about over the course of their careers. Manu has been taking way more 3 pters as he grew older because he can't just charge into the lane as he used to. During his prime, he would have 33 to 35% of his shots coming from 0-3 feet. Harden's career high is 33% and that is during his OKC days when he was averaging less FTs than he does now.


Manu only averaged 30 or more minutes per game twice. Harden has been at 38, 38, and 36 the last three seasons. So don't act like minutes were the same. Still, if you condone flopping for your own players, don't condemn others for it.

Per 100 possessions:
Manu career - 8.5FTA, 20.4FGA, or 1 FTA for every 2.4 FGA
Harden career - 11.2 FTA, 20..4FGA, or 1 FTA for every 1.8 FGA

[sook]

From a viewing perspective, it's horrible shit. From a basketball perspective, it's tainted the game to the point of being a gimmick. If exaggerating contact is required to get a foul call, that's fine. Using that exaggeration to do nothing to get to the line is a gimmick. It's not against the rules obviously, but it puts Harden's game into perspective. If you assess Shaq's game with a hand wave dismissal his his horrible FT shooting (which most do), you're saying FTs aren't a true indicator of a player's basketball acumen. After all, even end of the bench guys can shoot FTs. So then the same applies to Harden's game. If you dismiss his FT shooting, what you have left is a guy who occasionally hits a 3 or gets into the paint for a score. He's got good to great handles, a crazy eurostep cross over and his understanding of where his defender is at all times is off the charts. Dismiss his FT shooting though and he's a middle of the pack player.

If Shaq/Jordan became 70% or better FT shooters, the league would be a much different place today. You'd probably not be able to stop Jordan if he could shoot from outside and hit the FT as well. Imagine Dirk with Jordan's athleticism and tenacity. Game over. It don't happen though, not yet, but it will some day. Imagine if Blake Griffin had some arc on his shot instead of that line drive to the front of the rim. The same applies to Tim Duncan.

These guys have such great talents but there's a fundamental issue with all of them that limits their games. CP3's shot with Duncan's size and fundamentals would be terrifying to an opponent. Imagine Steph Curry is 6'11" and can still shoot from outside like that.
Watch the fouls on Harden last game...they were hard and legit fouls except for 1 where I thought it should have been an offensive on Harden. Dude took a beating...Barnes is dirty and made sure it was known.

[DMC]

It's unwatchable sure, but on the replays the foul is almost always there. It's almost always there on everyone though, they just don't call it. Wild hair and the beard are tools to get ref attention.


Watch the fouls on Harden last game...they were hard and legit fouls except for 1 where I thought it should have been an offensive on Harden. Dude took a beating...Barnes is dirty and made sure it was known.
You can see I covered that already. My beef is with the game itself. The league always looks for ways to shorten the games, saying they go too long, but then you have almost 100 FTA.. that's not even something you want to watch. It's worse than watching the dunk contest for 3 hours. Imagine watching the same 4 guys try to complete the same 3 dunks for 3 hours straight. That's last night's game.

[sook]

You can see I covered that already. My beef is with the game itself. The league always looks for ways to shorten the games, saying they go too long, but then you have almost 100 FTA.. that's not even something you want to watch. It's worse than watching the dunk contest for 3 hours. Imagine watching the same 4 guys try to complete the same 3 dunks for 3 hours straight. That's last night's game.

Yea, but I mean what can they really do when a person is driving in and they get a bear hug or have their arm grabbed before they can even go up? Thats clearly on the defense being inept or incapable of stopping the offensive player. And Dirk et al were embelishing contact way before Harden. Harden is just an easy target.

[100%duncan]

Yea, but I mean what can they really do when a person is driving in and they get a bear hug or have their arm grabbed before they can even go up? Thats clearly on the defense being inept or incapable of stopping the offensive player. And Dirk et al were embelishing contact way before Harden. Harden is just an easy target.

Do you enjoy watching harden shoot freethrows?

[DMC]

Yea, but I mean what can they really do when a person is driving in and they get a bear hug or have their arm grabbed before they can even go up? Thats clearly on the defense being inept or incapable of stopping the offensive player. And Dirk et al were embelishing contact way before Harden. Harden is just an easy target.

Basically the NBA is turning to pure shit. Until someone puts a hard foul on him, he'll keep coming into the paint. Sure he gets wrapped some sometimes, that's fine, but it's not like others aren't attacking at the other end. It's not like Blake didn't get slapped across the face by Howard with no whistle. Harden gets touch fouls, over and over, and he initiates contact and still uses that up and under move that the refs were supposed to ignore. All the Thunder players do that shit.

But it's not about Harden. It's about almost 100 FTA in a playoff game. If the future of the game is shooting FTs, why worry about intentional fouls? So it's ok as long as the guy can hit, but it's needlessly stopping the game and using a loophole if you send a guy who cannot hit a FT?

[TDfan2007]

Yea, but I mean what can they really do when a person is driving in and they get a bear hug or have their arm grabbed before they can even go up? Thats clearly on the defense being inept or incapable of stopping the offensive player. And Dirk et al were embelishing contact way before Harden. Harden is just an easy target.

I have no problem with Harden getting free throws when guys stupidly reach on his drives. That's contact and it should be called, even if he baits them into doing it. My main issue with Harden is his top of the key iso shit that usually devolves into him barreling into guys, leaning his torso in, and throwing his head back like he's been punched. That's not basketball, and most of the time he gets rewarded for it with 2 FTs. What's worse is that guys then get so afraid to D him up tightly that they almost concede his drives. I've seen it all season. It's honestly a shame that such a talented player chooses to draw cheap fouls instead of scoring in a legit manner.

Again, this isn't about FTAs, it's about a principle. Westbrook averages a shitton of free throws, but nobody who knows shit about basketball will whine about them, because that guy furiously attacks the rim with the INTENT of scoring, not drawing cheap fouls.

[TDfan2007]

Basically the NBA is turning to pure shit. Until someone puts a hard foul on him, he'll keep coming into the paint. Sure he gets wrapped some sometimes, that's fine, but it's not like others aren't attacking at the other end. It's not like Blake didn't get slapped across the face by Howard with no whistle. Harden gets touch fouls, over and over, and he initiates contact and still uses that up and under move that the refs were supposed to ignore. All the Thunder players do that shit.

But it's not about Harden. It's about almost 100 FTA in a playoff game. If the future of the game is shooting FTs, why worry about intentional fouls? So it's ok as long as the guy can hit, but it's needlessly stopping the game and using a loophole if you send a guy who cannot hit a FT?

Boom.

[Clipper Nation]

Exactly. Blake gets tons of legitimate contact and the refs usually swallow their whistles because he's a big man, so they assume he can play through it. (In fairness, Dwight gets the same treatment for the same reason.) Somehow when he got fed up with this during his first couple seasons and started exaggerating a bit (though he's toned it down in recent years), he got branded as a "flopper," but when Harden yanks his head back, flails around, or jumps into players and gets phantom calls, it's "craftiness" and people say "drawing fouls is a skill."

This Harden shit is eventually going to phase big men out of the game entirely if the league doesn't put a stop to it. It's getting harder to build around a PF or C when they can get brutalized out there while the Hardens and Durants of the league get rewarded with free throws for being breathed on or looked at funny.

[DMC]

Rockets fans are going to defend it obviously for altruistic reasons. They certainly have nothing to gain by doing so.

You could never put the Jordan Rules on Harden, you'd foul out in the 1st quarter. Hell the entire team damn near fouled out. I would like to see the intentional fouling go away completely, but this other shit needs to be toned down as well.

[cd021]

He was horrific last night, terribad. Dude was chucking up shit that had almost zero chance of going in. Blake seems to be physically done by the middle of the 3rd quarter in these games. That makes me wonder about his conditioning. Sure he's a beast when he's on but he runs out of gas pretty quickly. The entire team does that though, and if they'd quell that screaming, chest thumping shit they do any time they score, maybe some of that energy would be reserved for the 4th.

Crawford takes the worst shots in basketball. Its like he's taking half-court style jumpers leaning forward and kicking his legs out while he is floating to the basket.

Hard to blame Blake the only other viable PF on the team is big baby Davis who is probably the biggest NBA player (weight to height 6'8 290lbs) Hawes has been a train wreck this season so they really have to split 96 minutes between 3 players after a while the heavy minutes is going to make players tired quicker.

The Clippers better make the finals this season. There team isn't going to be better next season. Two of their top 6 players are going to be 36 (Barnes and Crawford) and Jordan could leave. Even if he does they still won't have cap space and they won't have a draft pick.

[Thread]

48 hours after I enter the RR you pussies start in with the officiating.

Motherfuckers.

[Clipper Nation]

The Clippers better make the finals this season. There team isn't going to be better next season. Two of their top 6 players are going to be 36 (Barnes and Crawford) and Jordan could leave. Even if he does they still won't have cap space and they won't have a draft pick.

Even if he's replaced by an empty roster spot, getting rid of Crawful would be addition by subtraction. And though I have misgivings about whether he's truly earned it, there's zero chance of our front office not giving DJ the max.

[100%duncan]

48 hours after I enter the RR you pussies start in with the officiating.

Motherfuckers.

Did you even watch last game Cubs? Silver didn't want his darling to go down 0-2.

[spurraider21]

i always thought manu was a much bigger flopper on defense

[DMC]

48 hours after I enter the RR you pussies start in with the officiating.

Motherfuckers.
Not about the officiating. I made that much clear. It's about the contradiction between "stop hack-a-nig" and "96 FTA is ok though". You said intentional fouling is chickenshit, now you're saying intentionally drawing the call is ok. You're an idiot. Just face it.

[Jacob1983]

Make free throws and this shit won't happen. Shitty free throw shooters shouldn't be rewarded for sucking ass at the FT line. If you don't want people to foul you on purpose then become a better free throw shooter.

[Thread]

Not about the officiating. I made that much clear. It's about the contradiction between "stop hack-a-nig" and "96 FTA is ok though". You said intentional fouling is chickenshit, now you're saying intentionally drawing the call is ok. You're an idiot. Just face it.

Only pussies & assholes play the officiating card.

[Thread]

Did you even watch last game Cubs? Silver didn't want his darling to go down 0-2.

The Clippers were just as complicit.