casual fan doesnt give lebron any credit or praise

[InRareForm]

Typical.

Why do people hate LeBron. Get over it.

Give props when they are due. Bulls lost a chance to end the Cavs season and they blew it. The king now probably will make a 5th finals appearance in a row now.

[Thread]

Typical.

Why do people hate LeBron. Get over it.

Give props when they are due. Bulls lost a chance to end the Cavs season and they blew it. The king now probably will make a 5th finals appearance in a row now.

I can dig it. Beats the alternative of a Clipper ring, or, a Bull ring.

[TampaDude]

King.

It rhymes with ring.

[DMC]

I called him the MVP, me..

[baseline bum]

Typical.

Why do people hate LeBron. Get over it.

Give props when they are due. Bulls lost a chance to end the Cavs season and they blew it. The king now probably will make a 5th finals appearance in a row now.

Dude shot 10-30 in a must win. I'm a huge LeBron fan, but he was ass yesterday.

[InRareForm]

Dude shot 10-30 in a must win. I'm a huge LeBron fan, but he was ass yesterday.

Not many people looked good that game tBh

[Clipper Nation]

Dude shot 10-30 in a must win. I'm a huge LeBron fan, but he was ass yesterday.
He was playing that '90s style of basketball that mainstream fans claim to love so much.

[Killakobe81]

Dude shot 10-30 in a must win. I'm a huge LeBron fan, but he was ass yesterday.

This. But I dont see how he doesnt get credit. I think a better thread question would be why are the expectations higher for Lebron than anyone else? I think all things considered outside of surpassing MJ and maybe being a few titles light he has been amazing. Lebron has met or surpassed most realistic expectations for a franchise player ...

[hitmanyr2k]

He was playing that '90s style of basketball that mainstream fans claim to love so much.

No, 3 point chucker ball belongs to your era. That's all players know how to do these days. Drive to the rim or throw up a 3 point heave lol. The skills in this league have ridiculously diminished.

[Killakobe81]

He was playing that '90s style of basketball that mainstream fans claim to love so much.

He wasnt playing anything just shows the gap between the eras is not as large as many here have expressed.

[unleashbaynes]

i'm sure that sloppy as shit game had nothing to do with them playing 3 playoff games in 5 days while all the other teams got 3-4 days of rest

[DMC]

Stats typically look worse in the playoffs because the defense is better and because players take more weight on their shoulders. They might stat watch most of the season then in the playoffs they just go all out and let the chips fall where they may. So I wouldn't put too much weight on efficiency in the playoffs, just W/L.

[Clipper Nation]

No, 3 point chucker ball belongs to your era. That's all players know how to do these days. Drive to the rim or throw up a 3 point heave lol. The skills in this league have ridiculously diminished.
Iso-chucking like the Cavs is literally what '90s basketball was :lol

Also, let's not forget how the league actually moved the three-point line in for a few years in your beloved '90s to inflate DK's career 3PT% and make shooters look unstoppable.

[Thread]

Also, let's not forget how the league actually moved the three-point line in for a few years in your beloved '90s to inflate DK's career 3PT% and make shooters look unstoppable.

I don't remember that.

[Clipper Nation]

I don't remember that.
They shortened it to basically the college 3-point line from 1994-1997.

[Thread]

They shortened it to basically the college 3-point line from 1994-1997.

By God, you're right.

[Killakobe81]

Stats typically look worse in the playoffs because the defense is better and because players take more weight on their shoulders. They might stat watch most of the season then in the playoffs they just go all out and let the chips fall where they may. So I wouldn't put too much weight on efficiency in the playoffs, just W/L.

Efficiency may dip but the numbers should increase because Most of the lame-ass coaches (not just Blatt) rely on their stars even more in the playoffs. and when they don't Lebron scraps the play and Scottie Pippen pouts like a little bitch ...

[Malik Hairston]

He's averaging 12 ISOs per game, the most of his career IIRC, and twice as much as 2nd in the playoffs..90s ball..

[Phillip]

Iso-chucking like the Cavs is literally what '90s basketball was :lol

:lol funny how 90s lovers conveniently forget that. Of each decade since the 80s (most everything before the 80s was garbage as crap and isn't worth counting), the 90s era was probably the weakest overall era. Team ball in the 90s was far worse than it is today. I think it is heavily due to an increased level of defensive coaching that hit around the 90s, and it took a while for offense to find counters against real defense, which I believe is why offensive strategy has evolved heavily into basically a layup or 3 game. Midrange scoring is so difficult to do, and usually ends up turning into iso ball and causing a team to lose its natural offensive flow. It may have worked better in the 80s and prior, because no one really played good defense. "Defense" in the 80s was hard fouling, intimidation and dirty play, as opposed to staying in front of your opponent, contesting every shot, and forcing your opponent into the least efficient shot possible.

It's hilarious how people constantly complain that the midrange game is generally gone from today's game, but then complain about "chucking" when fact is, the midrange game is the definition of chucking for 98% of players, as it is statistically proven to be the most inefficient shot in the game. Only a very few players through history truly was able to use the midrange game while also keeping their team heavily involved in an offensive rhythm, and many of them even struggled at times through their careers with it. Most players that were fantastic midrange scorers were also known as "chuckers" and bad team players.

[TampaDude]

Dude shot 10-30 in a must win. I'm a huge LeBron fan, but he was ass yesterday.

He drained the one that mattered. :hat

[ambchang]

Iso-chucking like the Cavs is literally what '90s basketball was :lol

Also, let's not forget how the league actually moved the three-point line in for a few years in your beloved '90s to inflate DK's career 3PT% and make shooters look unstoppable.

The league actually shortened the 3 pt line when Jordan went play baseball, and went back to the 23'9" two seasons after he came back. The shortened three point line actually backfired, and cost teams spacing, allowing defenses to recover much quicker from packing the paint to challenge shooters. 3pt% went up a bit, but overall FG% dropped.

My theory is that the packed paint area actually stops players like Jordan from penetrating the lane and create that exciting, crowd-pleasing penetration dunk type of game, and the league suffered as a result, forcing it to go back to the 23'9" line.

The shortened 3pt line experiment wasn't well thought out, and the league learned from that to draft the next set of rules that opens up the lanes and benefit ball movement.

[Killakobe81]

:lol funny how 90s lovers conveniently forget that. Of each decade since the 80s (most everything before the 80s was garbage as crap and isn't worth counting), the 90s era was probably the weakest overall era. Team ball in the 90s was far worse than it is today. I think it is heavily due to an increased level of defensive coaching that hit around the 90s, and it took a while for offense to find counters against real defense, which I believe is why offensive strategy has evolved heavily into basically a layup or 3 game. Midrange scoring is so difficult to do, and usually ends up turning into iso ball and causing a team to lose its natural offensive flow. It may have worked better in the 80s and prior, because no one really played good defense. "Defense" in the 80s was hard fouling, intimidation and dirty play, as opposed to staying in front of your opponent, contesting every shot, and forcing your opponent into the least efficient shot possible.

It's hilarious how people constantly complain that the midrange game is generally gone from today's game, but then complain about "chucking" when fact is, the midrange game is the definition of chucking for 98% of players, as it is statistically proven to be the most inefficient shot in the game. Only a very few players through history truly was able to use the midrange game while also keeping their team heavily involved in an offensive rhythm, and many of them even struggled at times through their careers with it. Most players that were fantastic midrange scorers were also known as "chuckers" and bad team players.

Im not a 90's fan ... but I think like most "theories" on this site things get overblown. The start of the decade (end of the Babdboys start of bulls reign) was on par with the most of the 80's and 2000's . Like i said before, poor drafts at the end of the 80's and early 90's led to less talent ...as the 80's stars faded or retired. But to dismiss a whole decade of hoops because they didnt utilize advanced metrics or complex defensive schemes is foolish and short-sighted. The first Bulls 3peat was more impressive than the 2nd because the league was still pretty strong ...by the mid 90's the NBA dipped in quality ...but by the end of the decade they were ascending again. You guys make it sound like the d-league but when in fact outside of the top 8-10 teams the rest of the today's NBA would be considered shitty no matter what decade they were in ...being a better dribbler or taking more 3's doesn't make a shitty team good.

this year's Lakers would struggle to beat the worst Laker team of the 90's for example ...

[hitmanyr2k]

Iso-chucking like the Cavs is literally what '90s basketball was :lol

That's all you see in the league today is ISO chucking. That's all your fraudulent MVP candidates do is ISO chuck :lol

[hitmanyr2k]

The league actually shortened the 3 pt line when Jordan went play baseball, and went back to the 23'9" two seasons after he came back. The shortened three point line actually backfired, and cost teams spacing, allowing defenses to recover much quicker from packing the paint to challenge shooters. 3pt% went up a bit, but overall FG% dropped.

My theory is that the packed paint area actually stops players like Jordan from penetrating the lane and create that exciting, crowd-pleasing penetration dunk type of game, and the league suffered as a result, forcing it to go back to the 23'9" line.

The shortened 3pt line experiment wasn't well thought out, and the league learned from that to draft the next set of rules that opens up the lanes and benefit ball movement.

But that's what I'm saying about skills diminishing. Even with the paint being packed and not having that defensive 3 seconds bullshit Pippen and Jordan could score on the low block because they had actual SKILL. Look at the SGs and SFs today. They play 3 pt chucker ball because they don't have the skill to score any other way.

What SG/SF today can do this on the low block when the paint is packed? They have defenders in their lap and defenders clogging the paint but it doesn't matter when you have footwork and counters. Jordan, Pippen, Penny, his teammate Nick Anderson, Mitch Richmond, Glen Rice, Steve Smith, etc all had post games in their arsenal to go along with their outside games.

http://i.imgur.com/zBXzKp3.gif

http://i.imgur.com/prLIfbF.gif

http://i.imgur.com/do89Myd.gif

http://i.imgur.com/24LMXBv.gif

http://i.imgur.com/OaqJXoT.gif

http://i.imgur.com/WLFRcsT.gif

http://i.imgur.com/7sII0Un.gif

http://i.imgur.com/TGZP8Lu.gif

[Clipper Nation]

The league actually shortened the 3 pt line when Jordan went play baseball, and went back to the 23'9" two seasons after he came back.
They were making the game easier for DK once his gambling suspension expired... they also banned handchecking during DK's suspension :lol

Thanks to Stern, DK went from a 28% shooter from the regular 3-point line to 42.7% and 37.4% in back-to-back years. Then when they brought back the old three-point line, DK shot a pathetic 23.8% from three. MVPippen also had career years from beyond the arc with the shortened line.


The shortened three point line actually backfired, and cost teams spacing, allowing defenses to recover much quicker from packing the paint to challenge shooters. 3pt% went up a bit, but overall FG% dropped.
The NBA-average FG% actually didn't change that much from right before they shortened the line (it was .466 in 1993-94, while during the shortened line years, it was .466, .462 and .455) and was significantly better than the years following the return of the old line - the league didn't even crack .450 again on average until the 2005-06 season.

That being said, the stated goal of increasing scoring didn't end up happening (the league average PPG was only 100.8 during the three seasons with the shortened line compared to 105.6 in the three seasons before they shortened it), but let's not pretend like that was the real reason they changed it.

[Infinite_limit]

Less talented Offenses > No one playing Defense

90s > Current

[ambchang]

They were making the game easier for DK once his gambling suspension expired... they also banned handchecking during DK's suspension :lol

Thanks to Stern, DK went from a 28% shooter from the regular 3-point line to 42.7% and 37.4% in back-to-back years. Then when they brought back the old three-point line, DK shot a pathetic 23.8% from three. MVPippen also had career years from beyond the arc with the shortened line.

Hand checking was banned, but it was never seriously enforced until the early 00s. To clarify, Jordan and Pippen were still hand-checking their man like crazy and was never called for a foul, but the opposition would get a foul when hand-checking them. That said, it has been like that ever since Jordan's 1st ring, so nothing really changed, except the league now made it a rule.

As for 3 pt shooting, Jordan had a few seasons of 30%+ 3pt shooting with the longer line. It was never really part of his strength, and he was very selective about it.

That said, the league really didn't embrace the 3 pt line until the Rockets really proved that you can use it to great advantage with their two titles. It was known as a gimmicky shot back in the day, and teams were only using situationally, or make up the score at the end of games. Not many teams were actually using 3pt shots as an integral part of their offense except those Nuggets teams that weren't overly good until the Rockets showed the way.

That's what made Jordan so good, he plays to his strengths, and plays it well.


The NBA-average FG% actually didn't change that much from right before they shortened the line (it was .466 in 1993-94, while during the shortened line years, it was .466, .462 and .455) and was significantly better than the years following the return of the old line - the league didn't even crack .450 again on average until the 2005-06 season.

That being said, the stated goal of increasing scoring didn't end up happening (the league average PPG was only 100.8 during the three seasons with the shortened line compared to 105.6 in the three seasons before they shortened it), but let's not pretend like that was the real reason they changed it.

The real reason was for the league to increase scoring, and it back fired. Jordan was out of the league, and there wasn't any indication that he'd be coming back when the rules were changed.

[Malik Hairston]

But that's what I'm saying about skills diminishing. Even with the paint being packed and not having that defensive 3 seconds bullshit Pippen and Jordan could score on the low block because they had actual SKILL. Look at the SGs and SFs today. They play 3 pt chucker ball because they don't have the skill to score any other way.

What SG/SF today can do this on the low block when the paint is packed? They have defenders in their lap and defenders clogging the paint but it doesn't matter when you have footwork and counters. Jordan, Pippen, Penny, his teammate Nick Anderson, Mitch Richmond, Glen Rice, Steve Smith, etc all had post games in their arsenal to go along with their outside games.

http://i.imgur.com/zBXzKp3.gif

http://i.imgur.com/prLIfbF.gif

http://i.imgur.com/do89Myd.gif

http://i.imgur.com/24LMXBv.gif

http://i.imgur.com/OaqJXoT.gif

http://i.imgur.com/WLFRcsT.gif

http://i.imgur.com/7sII0Un.gif

http://i.imgur.com/TGZP8Lu.gif

:lol I could find the same number of gifs from this season alone, probably in just 1 month of action..

The 90s was also full of low-skill goons that were only employed because they would provide hard fouls and a physical presence..a lot of Kendrick Perkins..

[Phillip]

But to dismiss a whole decade of hoops because they didnt utilize advanced metrics or complex defensive schemes is foolish and short-sighted.

No one dismissed a whole decade. I simply stated it was the weakest of the past 30-40 years. Partly because of talent, and partly because of a change in style, in which defense became much more dominant, and offenses struggled to adjust. Offenses were flat out ugly in the 90's overall.


You guys make it sound like the d-league but when in fact outside of the top 8-10 teams the rest of the today's NBA would be considered shitty no matter what decade they were in ...being a better dribbler or taking more 3's doesn't make a shitty team good.

Who made it sound like the D-League? I think the only one who overblew anything here was you, by overblowing the negativity of the 90s in my post. I never said anything along those lines, or remotely close to it. I stated that the 90's was the worst decade of basketball in a while, and pointed out the hypocrisy of 90's fanboys.


this year's Lakers would struggle to beat the worst Laker team of the 90's for example ...

That is an absolutely terrible, senseless argument, and you know it. Trying to compare eras with such criteria would be ridiculous, as I could make the counterpoint that the 00's are better than the 90's and 80's because of the fact that the worst 90's and 80's era Spurs teams would struggle to beat the worst 00's era Spurs team.

[Phillip]

:lol I could find the same number of gifs from this season alone, probably in just 1 month of action..

The 90s was also full of low-skill goons that were only employed because they would provide hard fouls and a physical presence..a lot of Kendrick Perkins..

:toast

[hitmanyr2k]

:lol I could find the same number of gifs from this season alone, probably in just 1 month of action..

The 90s was also full of low-skill goons that were only employed because they would provide hard fouls and a physical presence..a lot of Kendrick Perkins..

You mean like these from the so-called best player in the league in his 9th season :lol :lol :lol How long did it take that MF to learn just BASIC post moves? Look at all that fuckin room to work with. That's today's NBA skill level in a nutshell.

http://minus.com/is0ppYV4h9btB.gif

http://i.minus.com/ibnX1F0TfhfYf7.gif

[Killakobe81]

No one dismissed a whole decade. I simply stated it was the weakest of the past 30-40 years. Partly because of talent, and partly because of a change in style, in which defense became much more dominant, and offenses struggled to adjust. Offenses were flat out ugly in the 90's overall.



Who made it sound like the D-League? I think the only one who overblew anything here was you, by overblowing the negativity of the 90s in my post. I never said anything along those lines, or remotely close to it. I stated that the 90's was the worst decade of basketball in a while, and pointed out the hypocrisy of 90's fanboys.



That is an absolutely terrible, senseless argument, and you know it. Trying to compare eras with such criteria would be ridiculous, as I could make the counterpoint that the 00's are better than the 90's and 80's because of the fact that the worst 90's and 80's era Spurs teams would struggle to beat the worst 00's era Spurs team.

Phillip you and I are usually pretty cool ...so ill chalk this up as a misunderstanding. I was speaking of the 90's bashing on this site as a whole ... not at you specifically. Yes, I quoted you because I thought your opening line was a cool jumping off point but I was too lazy to cut it and edit it. you never dismissed the decade but plenty of others have and they knew who they are ...so I didnt think that needed clarifying but apparently it did. Either way sorry if you thought t I was challenging you.

We may disagree but I do absolutely believe that not only would the Sedale, Peeler and Sam Perkins 90's Lakers beat the 2014-2015 Lakers but I think they could have beat all the non playoff teams except maybe OKc and probably a few of the bottom playoff East teams as well. Maybe I am wrong but that is what I think. And you may not like to compare eras and that is your choice but I dont see any need to attack that .. how is that any different than the 1000s of times people on here say that the 72 win Bulls would crush the 2013 Heat? or 2009 Lakers or 2014 Spurs? People compare eras all the time ...

And again I already said that the 90's was a diluted era. My original premise that folks on here overblow how bad it was ...acting as those teams couldn't compete when we see shitty basketball every night in the 2015 playoffs.

Phillip I would have thought "you guys" would have made it obvious I was not speaking to you directly ...

[Phillip]

Phillip you and I are usually pretty cool ...so ill chalk this up as a misunderstanding. I was speaking of the 90's bashing on this site as a whole ... not at you specifically. Yes, I quoted you because I thought your opening line was a cool jumping off point but I was too lazy to cut it and edit it. you never dismissed the decade but plenty of others have and they knew who they are ...so I didnt think that needed clarifying but apparently it did. Either way sorry if you thought t I was challenging you.

We may disagree but I do absolutely believe that not only would the Sedale, Peeler and Sam Perkins 90's Lakers beat the 2014-2015 Lakers but I think they could have beat all the non playoff teams except maybe OKc and probably a few of the bottom playoff East teams as well. Maybe I am wrong but that is what I think. And you may not like to compare eras and that is your choice but I dont see any need to attack that .. how is that any different than the 1000s of times people on here say that the 72 win Bulls would crush the 2013 Heat? or 2009 Lakers or 2014 Spurs? People compare eras all the time ...

And again I already said that the 90's was a diluted era. My original premise that folks on here overblow how bad it was ...acting as those teams couldn't compete when we see shitty basketball every night in the 2015 playoffs.

Phillip I would have thought "you guys" would have made it obvious I was not speaking to you directly ...

If that is the case, then you should have plenty of "you guys" posts for all the 80s and 90s fanboys who all but state that 80's and 90's basketball is flawless, while 00's and 10's basketball is absolutely no good on any level whatsoever.

[Phillip]

You mean like these from the so-called best player in the league in his 9th season :lol :lol :lol How long did it take that MF to learn just BASIC post moves? Look at all that fuckin room to work with. That's today's NBA skill level in a nutshell.

http://minus.com/is0ppYV4h9btB.gif

http://i.minus.com/ibnX1F0TfhfYf7.gif

:lmao for every one of these, we can find one of MJ or Pippen doing the same stuff, and for every one of MJ and Pippen utilizing good footwork or finishing well, we can find plenty of Lebron, Durant, and Carmello doing the same. You are idiotic beyond comprehension.

[Killakobe81]

If that is the case, then you should have plenty of "you guys" posts for all the 80s and 90s fanboys who all but state that 80's and 90's basketball is flawless.

Flawless I am definitely a 80's fan, but the lack of athleticism especially at 2 guard is hilarious to watch. It's part of why Jordan a great athlete for any era but was such a phenom in the mid 80's. There are definitely many athletes on his level in the 2000's plus : Lebron, vince, Kobe, Blake, Dwight pre-injury Grant Hill were all on par with MJ as far running leaping jumping ... While Jordan at times was defended by Ainge, Dennis Johnson (great defender but not athlete), Ehlo, Majerle, Dumars (great defender OK athlete) while Lebron gets defended by Kiwi, Jimmy Butler, PG etc. I get all of that ... but I loved the Bird/Magic era the players (stars) were great and the bigs could actually catch and post up.

Again just saying the 90's was bad but not as bad as some on here claim, that it is ...

[hitmanyr2k]

:lmao for every one of these, we can find one of MJ or Pippen doing the same stuff, and for every one of MJ and Pippen utilizing good footwork or finishing well, we can find plenty of Lebron, Durant, and Carmello doing the same. You are idiotic beyond comprehension.

Bullshit :lol I can't believe you even mentioned Durant...king of 3 point chucker ball. When that MF wasn't being denied the ball by Tony Allen he was standing on the perimeter like a statue watching Westbrook have his turn being ISO chucker. How Durant doesn't have a bonafide post game is beyond me. He's damn near 7 foot with an outrageous wingspan. A jumphook from him would be impossible to block but he'd rather chuck 25+ foot shots. That idiot let Chris Paul of all people "D" him up in the playoffs :lol

[Malik Hairston]

:lol let's post random gifs of highlights

http://usatsneakhype.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/lob-city-gifs-8.gif?w=400&h=266

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/heat/images/150127-whitesideand1-2.gif
https://24.media.tumblr.com/ff4d825842df11cb738edc5b29574f49/tumblr_mzg12gUdRa1s3gys4o1_400.gif

[Malik Hairston]

:lol mid-range jump shots
:lol 2nd rate perimeter stars
:lol goons
:lol players that can't shoot 3-pointers

[hitmanyr2k]

:lol let's post random gifs of highlights

http://usatsneakhype.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/lob-city-gifs-8.gif?w=400&h=266

http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/.element/media/2.0/teamsites/heat/images/150127-whitesideand1-2.gif
https://24.media.tumblr.com/ff4d825842df11cb738edc5b29574f49/tumblr_mzg12gUdRa1s3gys4o1_400.gif

I say SG/SF and this MF posts gifs of PFs :lol

The said thing is the SGs and SFs of the 90's have better post moves than the big men these days. :lol Dwight Howard being the best big this weak ass era has to offer. Pippen's post game alone shits on most big men today.

[Malik Hairston]

I'll post some perimeter post-ups for you if you want, but perimeter players that post-up are largely pointless and overrated in basketball:lol..

Why would I want my perimeter player posting up and hurting my spacing when I could have him shooting 3s or penetrating to draw fouls or dish to shooters?

Kobe is as good as any perimeter player in league history at posting up, it didn't stop him from being relatively inefficient at basketball in the last few years in the new era of basketball..same with Dwyane Wade, a great post player that killed his team in the Finals with his post-ups and mid-range 2s..he was scoring fine vs. the Spurs in the post and in the middle, but the Heat were astronomically better when Lebron was surrounded by 3-point shooting perimeter players like Allen and Battier instead..

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

He was playing that '90s style of basketball that mainstream fans claim to love so much.

If only he could shoot... DK wouldn't have shot 10-30 in that game, tbh..

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

I'll post some perimeter post-ups for you if you want, but perimeter players that post-up are largely pointless and overrated in basketball:lol..

Kawhi Leonard?

[Malik Hairston]

Kawhi Leonard?

Only works well for the offense when Diaw is on the floor with him, as Duncan/Splitter kill spacing..that's what the 90s was, terrible spacing and clogged lanes:lol..

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Only works well for the offense when Diaw is on the floor with him, as Duncan/Splitter kill spacing..that's what the 90s was, terrible spacing and clogged lanes:lol..

Only shows how great MJ was to thrive with that style.

Clogged lanes? MJ would be like..

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/mjl.gif

[Malik Hairston]

Dad Killer is a good player, don't get me wrong, but his surroundings and circumstances played a large part in his success..we saw how the 1994 Bulls did without him, and we saw what he looked like outside of his comfort zone in 2002 and 2003 despite playing in a historically bad Eastern Conference(even worse than today's East:lol)..

[LkrFan]

No, 3 point chucker ball belongs to your era. That's all players know how to do these days. Drive to the rim or throw up a 3 point heave lol. The skills in this league have ridiculously diminished.True or False:

Prime Pip could guard Prime LeHype without a double team.

[Phillip]

True or False:

Prime Pip could guard Prime LeHype without a double team.

False as hell.

[ImDaNuts]

People love to hate Lebron. Actually had one guy tell me that if Lebron doesn't ring again he isn't a HOFer :lol

[DMC]

The league is full of players that you cannot guard without double team. Pippen could not guard prime LBJ solo, no way in hell. He might get some good moments but James would drop 35/8/10 on him.

[ducks]

15 turnovers 2 games but that is ok?
Gets hurt trying to kill rose gets called for o foul
Now claims I am hurt

[Infinite_limit]

The league is full of players that you cannot guard without double team. Pippen could not guard prime LBJ solo, no way in hell. He might get some good moments but James would drop 35/8/10 on him.
35 shot attempts
8 baskets
10 turnovers


? I believe it

[Bynumite]

I'll post some perimeter post-ups for you if you want, but perimeter players that post-up are largely pointless and overrated in basketball:lol..

Why would I want my perimeter player posting up and hurting my spacing when I could have him shooting 3s or penetrating to draw fouls or dish to shooters?

Kobe is as good as any perimeter player in league history at posting up, it didn't stop him from being relatively inefficient at basketball in the last few years in the new era of basketball..

Kobe's inefficiency always came from bailout shots, occasional heat checks and contested shots with high degree of difficulty. Not because the game changed into something more complex :lol

[Thebesteva]

That's all you see in the league today is ISO chucking. That's all your fraudulent MVP candidates do is ISO chuck :lol

Don't worry man, just about everybody outside this soon to be shitty\deleted forum thinks Jordan's era > Lebron's and no one will ever put Lebron past Magic Johnson much less the true GOAT.

[LkrFan]

False as hell.
You must be like 19 or something. Even Jimmy Butler had him shooting poorly this series - most recently held LeHype to 10/30 FGAs. Butler is no Pippen.

Since you obviously didn't see Pip play, youtube him. He is the greatest defensive player I've ever seen. No doubt in my mind he can guard LeHype without help.

[Phillip]

You must be like 19 or something. Even Jimmy Butler had him shooting poorly this series - most recently held LeHype to 10/30 FGAs. Butler is no Pippen.

Since you obviously didn't see Pip play, youtube him. He is the greatest defensive player I've ever seen. No doubt in my mind he can guard LeHype without help.

Or perhaps Lebron simply has had some bad shooting days, combined with some fantastic team defense by the Bulls?

And yes I was born in the 80s and grew up watching Pippen play. He's one of my all-time favorite players.

[Phillip]

People love to hate Lebron. Actually had one guy tell me that if Lebron doesn't ring again he isn't a HOFer :lol

lol wow


35 shot attempts
8 baskets
10 turnovers


? I believe it

kys faggot


The league is full of players that you cannot guard without double team. Pippen could not guard prime LBJ solo, no way in hell. He might get some good moments but James would drop 35/8/10 on him.

this. takes team defense to guard Lebron. but straight up? no one has a remote chance. too big, too fast, too strong, and jumps too high.

[ambchang]

:lol mid-range jump shots
:lol 2nd rate perimeter stars
:lol goons
:lol players that can't shoot 3-pointers

Not sure how you came up with that conclusion. For someone who is such a supporter of advanced stats, I would imagine you would have some sort of numbers to back up your claims instead of a bunch of emoticons and anecdotal evidence.

Sure, teams are shooting a lot more from the 3 right now, but does that mean they are necessarily better in terms of efficiency? Not really.

The TS% in 2015 was 53.4%, it was 53.1% in 1992, despite a lot less 3s. (22.4/team/game vs. 7.6/team/game). Teams weren't necessarily worse at shooting it (35% vs 33.1%), they were just shooting a whole lot less.

Teams also shot (slightly) better from the foul line (75.9% in 1992 vs. 75% in 2015) in the older days, which is a truer indication of whether players were in general better shooters or not because of the lack of defense.

Teams were shooting more FTs back in the day. Whether that was due to excessive fouling due to bad defense or more low post/paint scoring is up for the interpreter.

Finally, to notion that it was all iso ball back in the day is suspect. Teams averaged 0.59 assist for every FG made in 1992, that number is 0.59 in 2015. Sure it may be a lot of one pass and shoot back in 1992, but it doesn't give with the entire ISOball dominated 90s theory a lot of weight.

BTW, have you figured out BPM is a statistic that's normalized yet?

[Clipper Nation]

I'll post some perimeter post-ups for you if you want, but perimeter players that post-up are largely pointless and overrated in basketball:lol..

Why would I want my perimeter player posting up and hurting my spacing when I could have him shooting 3s or penetrating to draw fouls or dish to shooters?

I disagree that posting up is entirely useless for perimeter players. For instance, not having a post game enabled Durant to get hounded by smaller players like Tony Allen and Chris Paul defensively in the playoffs last year. Without being able to back them down consistently, Durant struggled against players who could make up for their height disadvantage by being quick enough to stay with him. It's the same reason why Dirk struggled so much against the Warriors' small-ball lineups in 2007. Another example: Harden's lack of a post game is part of why he's sucked so bad in the playoffs without his bailout whistles.

Thing is, it just needs to be used in moderation. Overly relying on it makes you just as predictable as not having a post game at all and does end up ruining the spacing of the offense in favor of inefficient shots as you said.

[Infinite_limit]

this. takes team defense to guard Lebron. but straight up? no one has a remote chance. too big, too fast, too strong, and jumps too high.
Everything you posted is physical

Furthermore, matters very little when he jacks up a 18 foot fade away 7 outta 10 times

[Phillip]

Everything you posted is physical

Finishes too well around the rim, has complimentary footwork and post moves, and has developed a pretty deadly jumper to keep defenders honest.


Furthermore, matters very little when he jacks up a 18 foot fade away 7 outta 10 times

Against team defense, not one-on-one.

[Franklin]

But you still need to assign a designated defender to him even if you play zone defense or team defense, like the 11' Marion and 14' Leonard imho.