Is Tony Parker a top 5 PG of all time?

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

When looking at accomplishments and records, there was no other PG outside of Magic Johnson that was a lock for the HOF at age 32 like Parker. Now there is no doubt the media will have him as a top ten PG of all time when it's all set and done for his accomplishments, I thought to myself, could he potentially be top five? Think about it, who out there could be greater? Sure you have Magic, Nash and Oscar Robertson. But after that? It's a crap shoot. Unless CPIII wins, he will forever be known as the equivalent of John Stockton. Jason Kidd and Gary Payton? Sure they had more talent, but will always be remembered as coat-tailing to their first ring on stacked teams. Bob Cousey will not be known in twenty years by virtually everyone. Parker's accomplishments, although may be over-blown by casual fans and the media, will be what most remember, whether you like it or not.



So when it's all set and done, I could easily see the top five PG's of all time looking like:
Magic, Big O, Isiah Thomas, Nash, TP... and no one would have a problem with that... except cry baby Spurfans... but who cares?

Lets face it.. Manu was the Alpha over Parker for a long time... sadly... he didn't get the recognition for it and nobody will ever remember that outside of Spursfans...

So.. TP top five PG of all time... nice ring to it. As long as you're not a player-fan and a Spurs fan.. you should be able to celebrate the greatness of the Big 3.

[Clipper Nation]

http://i.imgur.com/fj6Szln.gif

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

On top of that, it doesn't look like there's any PG's in the near future that will be able to challenge him. Steph Curry has the potential without a doubt... but Westbrook will flame himself out by the media/unwillingness to adapt to team play. Derrick Rose has been injured far too much to be a dominant force (but if they win he could probably get FMVP) and Rondo's best days are far behind him. Maybe when John Wall retires after 12 more years he could potentially challenge the spot.

[timtonymanu]

No, he isn't. Not even hating.

[DarrinS]

Top 15

[testies]

He's one of the 5 best French PGs who ever played in the NBA

[DarrinS]

Will drop if he has more playoff stats like this season

[Godbama]

:wow

I mean he's definitely top 5 in Barrys smashed

[Galileo]

When looking at accomplishments and records, there was no other PG outside of Magic Johnson that was a lock for the HOF at age 32 like Parker. Now there is no doubt the media will have him as a top ten PG of all time when it's all set and done for his accomplishments, I thought to myself, could he potentially be top five? Think about it, who out there could be greater? Sure you have Magic, Nash and Oscar Robertson. But after that? It's a crap shoot. Unless CPIII wins, he will forever be known as the equivalent of John Stockton. Jason Kidd and Gary Payton? Sure they had more talent, but will always be remembered as coat-tailing to their first ring on stacked teams. Bob Cousey will not be known in twenty years by virtually everyone. Parker's accomplishments, although may be over-blown by casual fans and the media, will be what most remember, whether you like it or not.



So when it's all set and done, I could easily see the top five PG's of all time looking like:
Magic, Big O, Isiah Thomas, Nash, TP... and no one would have a problem with that... except cry baby Spurfans... but who cares?

Lets face it.. Manu was the Alpha over Parker for a long time... sadly... he didn't get the recognition for it and nobody will ever remember that outside of Spursfans...

So.. TP top five PG of all time... nice ring to it. As long as you're not a player-fan and a Spurs fan.. you should be able to celebrate the greatness of the Big 3.

Bob Cousy was the greatest PG ever, besides Magic. Cousy won NBA championships ans was named 1st-team all-NBA ten times.

[cd98]

He is probably not a top 20 point guard, but he certainly has had top 10 years. I can't say he's top 20 overall. That said, he still HOF because (1) its easy to get in; (2) he's won 4 titles; (3) he's been a finals MVP; (4) he is the only Euro point guard to have that kind of success; and (5) he has the requisite stats, i.e., all star appearances and all NBA selections and good scoring averages. He could move in the top 5 in specific areas, for example, he may be the best finisher in the paint all time for a point guard, but he's at least top 5 in that regard.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Bob Cousy was the greatest PG ever, besides Magic. Cousy won NBA championships ans was named 1st-team all-NBA ten times.

I don't think Cousy is better than Big O

[cd98]

When looking at accomplishments and records, there was no other PG outside of Magic Johnson that was a lock for the HOF at age 32 like Parker. Now there is no doubt the media will have him as a top ten PG of all time when it's all set and done for his accomplishments, I thought to myself, could he potentially be top five? Think about it, who out there could be greater? Sure you have Magic, Nash and Oscar Robertson. But after that? It's a crap shoot. Unless CPIII wins, he will forever be known as the equivalent of John Stockton. Jason Kidd and Gary Payton? Sure they had more talent, but will always be remembered as coat-tailing to their first ring on stacked teams. Bob Cousey will not be known in twenty years by virtually everyone. Parker's accomplishments, although may be over-blown by casual fans and the media, will be what most remember, whether you like it or not.



So when it's all set and done, I could easily see the top five PG's of all time looking like:
Magic, Big O, Isiah Thomas, Nash, TP... and no one would have a problem with that... except cry baby Spurfans... but who cares?

Lets face it.. Manu was the Alpha over Parker for a long time... sadly... he didn't get the recognition for it and nobody will ever remember that outside of Spursfans...

So.. TP top five PG of all time... nice ring to it. As long as you're not a player-fan and a Spurs fan.. you should be able to celebrate the greatness of the Big 3.

I hate John Stockton, but say what you want, no way he's not the 2nd best point guard of all time with his assist and steal records. Those are unbreakable. Sure, he never won a title, but so much can go into whether you win a title or not. KG would never have won one had he not been traded to Boston. If you want to say all-time great, then maybe Stockton is way down the list, but if you are talking about best point guard, he and Magic are at the top of the list. I do value titles in saying that MJ was better than JS, but he was also a unique player at 6'9 and his ability to post up guards. But Tony's 4 titles do not make him a better point guard than John Stockton.

[Spur-Addict]

:lmao /Thread

[Galileo]

I don't think Cousy is better than Big O

Better than Oscar:

Career highlights and awards
6× NBA champion (1957, 1959-1963)
NBA Most Valuable Player (1957)
13× NBA All-Star (1951–1963)
2× NBA All-Star Game MVP (1954, 1957)
10× All-NBA First Team (1952–1961)
2× All-NBA Second Team (1962, 1963)
8× NBA assists leader (1953-1960)
NBA 25th Anniversary Team
NBA 35th Anniversary Team
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
No. 14 retired by Boston Celtics
NCAA champion (1947)
Consensus first-team All-American (1950)
No. 17 retired by Holy Cross

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Cousy

[Godbama]

Bob Cousy was the greatest PG ever, besides Magic. Cousy won NBA championships ans was named 1st-team all-NBA ten times.
pretty sure there's 1 guy in every pickup game I'm at who would just crossover and steal every "legendary" 1950s NBA players to death.

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

pretty sure there's 1 guy in every pickup game I'm at who would just crossover and steal every "legendary" 1950s NBA players to death.

This has already been debated, and you are wrong.

[Godbama]

This has already been debated, and you are wrong.
SCIENCE!

[ErnestLynch]

No, but prime TP was pretty darn good and when compared to his active counterparts one of the best and at times, the best.

[cd98]

pretty sure there's 1 guy in every pickup game I'm at who would just crossover and steal every "legendary" 1950s NBA players to death.

I once played against a former ABA player who was 70 years old. Sure, he was too old to play defense, but he could still shoot lights out. At 70. Don't be so sure that today's athlete. They may be faster and taller, but they can't match fundamentals of people that actually practiced fundamentals like shooting. Now days, the athlete makes a spectacular cross over and then bricks the mid range jumper. In fact, the mid range jumper is a lost art in the NBA, and per Pop, is almost indefensible.

[RD2191]

http://i.imgur.com/fj6Szln.gif

[ErnestLynch]

TP's game was more dangerous once he did develop the MRJ, just as it has made BG a better player. Trouble is....he developed his MRJ. KWIM ? Next thing you know, he's shooting 3's and he's no longer what made him. So it goes.... there's a window.

[Clipper Nation]

Porker is definitely one of the top 5 Pound Gainers of all time.

[Mikeanaro]

Top 5 in 60 something years of NBA history? :lmao

[Spur-Addict]

It's threads like this that remind you how great Duncan actually is. Top 5, GTFO :lol

[dabom]

Porker is definitely one of the top 5 Pound Gainers of all time.

:lmao

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

This is a great discussion. It's good to see opinions differ like this. Good to see TP can be considered as such :tu keep it up

[dbreiden83080]

Well lets start naming the all time greats according to most

Magic
Isiah
Stockton
Kidd
Cousy
Nash
Paul
West
Frazier
Payton

That is not really in order.. I think he is right there with Steve Nash but that's about it..

[Strategic]

No, but he probably has enough years left to get in the discussion. Don't think he will though.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

I wouldn't say top 5 but definitely top 15. What has really hurt Parker is the lack of a jumpshot. This would have helped him in his early years when he struggled against defenses that would focus on clogging the paint and shutting him down.

[100%duncan]

http://i.imgur.com/fj6Szln.gif

[Strategic]

Well lets start naming the all time greats according to most

Magic
Isiah
Stockton
Kidd
Cousy
Nash
Paul
West
Frazier
Payton

That is not really in order.. I think he is right there with Steve Nash but that's about it..Are Nash, Stockton, and Kidd on this list because they stat padded for an extra 5 to 7 years?

[Diego20]

TOP 5 of Spurs?

Yes..

[Seventyniner]

TOP 5 of Spurs?

Yes..

Top 3.


I could see Parker in the 14-18 range on an all-time list, but since he never really was the alpha dog (it was always Duncan), he can't get much higher.

[Diego20]

Top 3.


I could see Parker in the 14-18 range on an all-time list, but since he never really was the alpha dog (it was always Duncan), he can't get much higher.

I meant Spurs PG top 5..

[TheGreatYacht]

Top 10, tbh. He can make it over Thomas if he switches his career around after 2 bad seasons IMO.


Magic (no explanation needed)
Big O (triple doubles without looking like a chimp)
Jerry West (27, 5, & 6 career average. 10X first team. One time champ and FMVP)
Cousy (6X champ, 8X assists leader, MVP. 18, 5, & 6 career average)
Thomas (18 & 9 career average. 2X champ and 1FMVP. Three time First Team All-NBA)

[cantthinkofanything]

Tim Hardaway, Iverson, Penny Hardaway

[cantthinkofanything]

Dennis Scott

[cantthinkofanything]

Mark Price

[cantthinkofanything]

Lee Mayberry

[Kool Bob Love]

Top 10, tbh. He can make it over Thomas if he switches his career around after 2 bad seasons IMO.


Magic (no explanation needed)
Big O (triple doubles without looking like a chimp)
Jerry West (27, 5, & 6 career average. 10X first team. One time champ and FMVP)
Cousy (6X champ, 8X assists leader, MVP. 18, 5, & 6 career average)
Thomas (18 & 9 career average. 2X champ and 1FMVP. Three time First Team All-NBA)

[cd98]

I thought West was a shooting guard.

[Ditty]

5-10 debatable

10-15 definitely

[Tuddy]

Top 10

[itsamanuthree]

No fucking way, and comparing him with Nash, just LOL! Change Parker with Nash and Spurs would've won like 15 rings in this span. NBA would've become predictable with a trio of Nash Manu Tim.

[itsamanuthree]

I thought West was a shooting guard.

I thought Parker was too

[100%duncan]

No fucking way, and comparing him with Nash, just LOL! Change Parker with Nash and Spurs would've won like 15 rings in this span. NBA would've become predictable with a trio of Nash Manu Tim.

[SASdynasty!]

Tony Parker vs Steve Nash

Career Regular Season:
Tony Parker: 16.9 PPG, 5.9 APG, 3.0 RPG, 0.9 SPG, 2.5 TOV, on .494 shooting
Steve Nash: 14.3 PPF, 8.5 APG, 3.0 RPG, 0.7 SPG, 2.9 TOV, on .490 shooting

Career Playoffs:
Tony Parker: 18.6 PPG, 5.2 APG, 3.1 RPG, 0.9 SPG, 2.8 TOV, on .460 shooting
Steve Nash: 17.3 PPG, 8.8 APG, 3.5 RPG, 0.6 SPG, 3.2 TOV, on .473 shooting

Playoffs Head To Head:

2003 - Spurs def. Mavericks 4-2
Tony Parker: 16.3 PPG, 4.0 APG, 3.0 RPG, 1.0 SPG, 2.2 TOV, on .422 shooting
Steve Nash: 14.8 PPG, 6.5 APG, 3.8 RPG, 0.8 SPG, 2.7 TOV, on .427 shooting

2005 - Spurs def. Suns 4-1
Tony Parker: 20.4 PPG, 4.2 APG, 3.0 RPG, 1.2 SPG, 4.0 TOV, on .459 shooting
Steve Nash: 23.2 PPG, 10.6 APG, 3.8 RPG, 1.2 SPG, 4.4 TOV, on .522 shooting

2007 - Spurs def Suns 4-2
Tony Parker: 20.8 PPG, 5.7 APG, 2.8 RPG, 1.0 SPG, 3.5 TOV, on .451 shooting
Steve Nash: 21.3 PPG, 12.7 APG, 3.7 RPG, 0.3 SPG, 4.5 TOV, on .484 shooting

2008 - Spurs def Suns 4-1
Tony Parker: 29.6 PPG, 7.0 APG, 3.4 RPG, 1.4 SPG, 3.2 TOV, on .523 shooting
Steve Nash: 16.2 PPG, 7.8 APG, 2.8 RPG, 0.4 SPG, 2.4 TOV, on .457 shooting

2010 - Suns def Spurs 4-0
Tony Parker: 19.5 PPG, 5.0 APG, 4.0 RPG, 0.0 SPG, 2.8 TOV, on .479 shooting
Steve Nash: 22.0 PPG, 7.8 APG, 4.5 RPG, 0.5 SPG, 4.5 TOV, on .557 shooting

2013 - Spurs def Lakers 4-0
Tony Parker: 22.3 PPG, 6.5 APG, 3.3 RPG, 1.3 SPG, 1.8 TOV, on .493 shooting
Steve Nash: 12.5 PPG, 4.5 APG, 2.5 RPG, 0.0 SPG, 1.5 TOV, on .435 shooting

[SASdynasty!]

"Bad" Contract Comparison:

Tony Parker 2014-15 ($12.5 million)
14.4 PPG, 4.9 APG, 1.9 RPG, 0.6 SPG, 2.1 TOV, on .486 shooting

Jason Kidd 2008-09 ($21.4 million)
9.0 PPG, 8.7 APG, 6.2 RPG, 2.0 SPG, 2.3 TOV, on .416 shooting

[$pursDynasty]

I love TP but I am not making the top 5 all time argument. Top 5 of this era with or without Nash, yes, all time nope.

[Kidd K]

I hate John Stockton, but say what you want, no way he's not the 2nd best point guard of all time with his assist and steal records. Those are unbreakable. Sure, he never won a title, but so much can go into whether you win a title or not. KG would never have won one had he not been traded to Boston. If you want to say all-time great, then maybe Stockton is way down the list, but if you are talking about best point guard, he and Magic are at the top of the list. I do value titles in saying that MJ was better than JS, but he was also a unique player at 6'9 and his ability to post up guards. But Tony's 4 titles do not make him a better point guard than John Stockton.

Jordan was 6'6". LeBron's 6'9". I think you're cofusing the two.

But I agree, Stockton not being mentioned here is a joke. He was vastly superior to Parker despite the no rings. And I like Parker.

[SASdynasty!]

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Cousy
4. Isaiah
5. Stockton
6. Frazier
7. Nash
8. Kidd
9. Parker
10. Paul
11. Payton
12. KJ
13. Tiny
14. Curry
15. Westbrook

*If we're calling West a PG, then he's top-5.

[TheGreatYacht]

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Cousy
4. Isaiah
5. Stockton
6. Frazier
7. Nash
8. Kidd
9. Parker
10. Paul
11. Payton
12. KJ
13. Tiny
14. Westbrook
15. Billups

*If we're calling West a PG, then he's top-5.
Pretty good list, tbh. I'd put Parker over Kidd though without question.

Steph Curry is already above Billups on my list

[SASdynasty!]

Pretty good list, tbh. I'd put Parker over Kidd though without question.

Steph Curry is already above Billups on my list
Totally forgot about Steph...and yah I certainly believe Parker's got a good case over Kidd and even over Nash. It would be really really hard to argue him over Nash though with his 2 MVPs.

[TDfan2007]

When looking at accomplishments and records, there was no other PG outside of Magic Johnson that was a lock for the HOF at age 32 like Parker. Now there is no doubt the media will have him as a top ten PG of all time when it's all set and done for his accomplishments, I thought to myself, could he potentially be top five? Think about it, who out there could be greater? Sure you have Magic, Nash and Oscar Robertson. But after that? It's a crap shoot. Unless CPIII wins, he will forever be known as the equivalent of John Stockton. Jason Kidd and Gary Payton? Sure they had more talent, but will always be remembered as coat-tailing to their first ring on stacked teams. Bob Cousey will not be known in twenty years by virtually everyone. Parker's accomplishments, although may be over-blown by casual fans and the media, will be what most remember, whether you like it or not.



So when it's all set and done, I could easily see the top five PG's of all time looking like:
Magic, Big O, Isiah Thomas, Nash, TP... and no one would have a problem with that... except cry baby Spurfans... but who cares?

Lets face it.. Manu was the Alpha over Parker for a long time... sadly... he didn't get the recognition for it and nobody will ever remember that outside of Spursfans...

So.. TP top five PG of all time... nice ring to it. As long as you're not a player-fan and a Spurs fan.. you should be able to celebrate the greatness of the Big 3.

Stockton, Kidd, and Paul were/are all better than Tony. Your argument is extremely flawed. Just because Player A is more successful than player B, doesn't make player A better. Rings and team success should be used to separate players who are on the same skill/statistical tier.

Tony is a great scorer, floor general, and clutch player. He's also one of the best guards in history at finishing in the paint. However, he's also mediocre defensively (atrocious these last 2-3 years), has average court vision at best, and has been mostly underwhelming in the playoffs (2009 and 2013 are the only years he posted a playoff PER of over 20). If a guy has a PER of 11.9 and 12 (league average is 15) for 2 of his 4 championships, while being a clear #3 on each of those titles, then using those titles to prop him up over guys like Kidd and Stockton doesn't make any sense.

I can't think of many GOAT-level PGs that have come up in league history though, so I'd say he could be top 10 when all is said and done. Tony has been great for the franchise, and his style of play has been perfect for our system, but let's not get carried away.



TLDR: No.

[FkLA]

:lmao

Is Green+Diaw for Shumpert a good trade too?

[cd98]

Jordan was 6'6". LeBron's 6'9". I think you're cofusing the two.

But I agree, Stockton not being mentioned here is a joke. He was vastly superior to Parker despite the no rings. And I like Parker.

When I said MJ, I meant Magic Johnson, not Michael Jordan, though I agree that typically MJ is known to be Michael Jordan.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Stockton, Kidd, and Paul were/are all better than Tony. Your argument is extremely flawed. Just because Player A is more successful than player B, doesn't make player A better. Rings and team success should be used to separate players who are on the same skill/statistical tier.

Tony is a great scorer, floor general, and clutch player. He's also one of the best guards in history at finishing in the paint. However, he's also mediocre defensively (atrocious these last 2-3 years), has average court vision at best, and has been mostly underwhelming in the playoffs (2009 and 2013 are the only years he posted a playoff PER of over 20). If a guy has a PER of 11.9 and 12 (league average is 15) for 2 of his 4 championships, while being a clear #3 on each of those titles, then using those titles to prop him up over guys like Kidd and Stockton doesn't make any sense.

I can't think of many GOAT-level PGs that have come up in league history though, so I'd say he could be top 10 when all is said and done. Tony has been great for the franchise, and his style of play has been perfect for our system, but let's not get carried away.



TLDR: No.

Tony has been around for so long that it's difficult to remember all terrible point guards we've had at that position. Avery for all he did for this franchise was not that great of a player. When Parker retires Spurs fans are going to realize what a rare commodity we had in a PG that can do the things he did.

[ambchang]

PGs I will take over Parker (in no particular order)

Magic
Oscar
Isiah Thomas
Stockton
Kidd
Nash
Payton
Iverson (I still count him as a point)
Derek Harper
Walt Frazier
Mark Price
Jerry West
Chris Paul
Dennis Johnson
Maurice Cheeks
Kevin Johnson

Maybes:
Billups
Terry Porter
Lenny Wilkens
Sidney Moncrief
Tim Hardaway

Too old to judge:
Cousy
Sam Jones

Too early to tell:
Steph Curry
Mike Conley (a seriously underrated player)
Westbrook

Probably not:
Cassell
Tiny Archibald
Doc Rivers
Anfernee Hardaway (too injured, but definitely if he had a longer prime)
Terrell Brandon (Huge fan of his, but his game would translate horribly in today's game).

[cantthinkofanything]

PGs I will take over Parker (in no particular order)
Maybes:
Billups
Terry Porter
Lenny Wilkens
Sidney Moncrief
Tim Hardaway


Moncrief had HOF talent.

[lefty]

1. Magic
2. Oscar
3. Cousy
4. Isaiah
5. Stockton
6. Frazier
7. Nash
8. Kidd
9. Parker
10. Paul
11. Payton
12. KJ
13. Tiny
14. Curry
15. Westbrook

*If we're calling West a PG, then he's top-5.

:lmao Parker over KJ, Payton

[SASdynasty!]

:lmao Parker over KJ, Payton
I'll take a PG who's proven he can be the best player on a championship team (and proven he can be a top-3 guy multiple times on other championship teams) over guys who were the 2nd best player on teams that couldn't win. Add to that KJ's short career (which keep his stats inflated) and they still aren't much better than Parker's. Parker was a better scorer and creator than GP on offense, but obviously not on defense.

[FkLA]

Parker was a better scorer and creator than GP on offense, but obviously not on defense.

The fuck are you talking about you dumb faggot? GP averaged 20+ PPG seven times in his career, Enrique has done it twice. GP averaged 7+ APG ten years in a row, Enrique has done that twice. If we include defense GP shits on him that much more. There is no argument that puts Enrique over GP.

[FkLA]

Stockton, Kidd, and Paul were/are all better than Tony. Your argument is extremely flawed. Just because Player A is more successful than player B, doesn't make player A better. Rings and team success should be used to separate players who are on the same skill/statistical tier.

Tony is a great scorer, floor general, and clutch player. He's also one of the best guards in history at finishing in the paint. However, he's also mediocre defensively (atrocious these last 2-3 years), has average court vision at best, and has been mostly underwhelming in the playoffs (2009 and 2013 are the only years he posted a playoff PER of over 20). If a guy has a PER of 11.9 and 12 (league average is 15) for 2 of his 4 championships, while being a clear #3 on each of those titles, then using those titles to prop him up over guys like Kidd and Stockton doesn't make any sense.

I can't think of many GOAT-level PGs that have come up in league history though, so I'd say he could be top 10 when all is said and done. Tony has been great for the franchise, and his style of play has been perfect for our system, but let's not get carried away.



TLDR: No.

http://i.imgur.com/v06N8.gif

It's too bad most of the retards that him anywhere near the Top 5 don't have the attention span to read this. Great post nonetheless though, aside from the whole he's clutch/great floor general thing.

[mkurts]

I'll take a PG who's proven he can be the best player on a championship team (and proven he can be a top-3 guy multiple times on other championship teams) over guys who were the 2nd best player on teams that couldn't win. Add to that KJ's short career (which keep his stats inflated) and they still aren't much better than Parker's. Parker was a better scorer and creator than GP on offense, but obviously not on defense.

Oh my god have you ever watched The Glove in his prime ? Obviously not ...

[james evans]

When looking at accomplishments and records, there was no other PG outside of Magic Johnson that was a lock for the HOF at age 32 like Parker. Now there is no doubt the media will have him as a top ten PG of all time when it's all set and done for his accomplishments, I thought to myself, could he potentially be top five? Think about it, who out there could be greater? Sure you have Magic, Nash and Oscar Robertson. But after that? It's a crap shoot. Unless CPIII wins, he will forever be known as the equivalent of John Stockton. Jason Kidd and Gary Payton? Sure they had more talent, but will always be remembered as coat-tailing to their first ring on stacked teams. Bob Cousey will not be known in twenty years by virtually everyone. Parker's accomplishments, although may be over-blown by casual fans and the media, will be what most remember, whether you like it or not.



So when it's all set and done, I could easily see the top five PG's of all time looking like:
Magic, Big O, Isiah Thomas, Nash, TP... and no one would have a problem with that... except cry baby Spurfans... but who cares?

Lets face it.. Manu was the Alpha over Parker for a long time... sadly... he didn't get the recognition for it and nobody will ever remember that outside of Spursfans...

So.. TP top five PG of all time... nice ring to it. As long as you're not a player-fan and a Spurs fan.. you should be able to celebrate the greatness of the Big 3.
parker better than jason kidd,stockton, and payton, all time? what the fuck are you smoking? I didn't even mention chris paul(thought parker isn't better than him either). But you seriously think parker is better than the 3 I mentioned all time? Parker better than Fraizer? Parker better than cousy? What made you type such silliness?

[james evans]

Oh my god have you ever watched The Glove in his prime ? Obviously not ...
No he hasn't. He started watching basketball in 2007 during the nba finals.

[lefty]

I'll take a PG who's proven he can be the best player on a championship team (and proven he can be a top-3 guy multiple times on other championship teams) over guys who were the 2nd best player on teams that couldn't win. Add to that KJ's short career (which keep his stats inflated) and they still aren't much better than Parker's. Parker was a better scorer and creator than GP on offense, but obviously not on defense.
When was Parker the best player on a championship team?
And don't mention 2007, any average pg would have destroyed Gibson

And it's not like he had to face MJ and yhe the Bulls in the Finals, like KJ and Payton

Regardless, they were much better players than Porker anyway

[spurspokesman]

No. And i'm a big TP supporter

[Silver&Black]

When was Parker the best player on a championship team?
And don't mention 2007, any average pg would have destroyed Gibson


Just because he played against Gibson in the Finals....he is automatically disqualified from being "the best player on a championship team"?

:lol Dat logic

[SASdynasty!]

The fuck are you talking about you dumb faggot? GP averaged 20+ PPG seven times in his career, Enrique has done it twice. GP averaged 7+ APG ten years in a row, Enrique has done that twice. If we include defense GP shits on him that much more. There is no argument that puts Enrique over GP.
I'm talking about the fact that GP was a freiking journeyman who chased rings to 5 different teams to finally get his title (Miami). He numbers were terrible in the postseason (shooting percentage dropped from 47% to 44%) and he averaged 14.0 PPG for his career. Wow, that's so amazing. He was a great defender and almost gave Jordan enough trouble to do something (but didn't). Parker not only outplayed Lebron James in the 2007 Finals, but was the best player on the Spurs throughout the 2014 regular season and postseason. I know you and the krew are too biased to understand that, but I'm sorry. Your hate of one of the best point guards to ever play the game is beyond irrational, and we're just glad you aren't a coach, announcer, or basketball analyst. You would have probably benched Parker when he was a top MVP candidate.

[SASdynasty!]

When was Parker the best player on a championship team?
And don't mention 2007, any average pg would have destroyed Gibson

And it's not like he had to face MJ and yhe the Bulls in the Finals, like KJ and Payton

Regardless, they were much better players than Porker anyway
No, in 2007 he was only clearly the best player in the Finals (Duncan was the best player in the regular season and playoffs). In 2014, he was the best player in the regular season and the playoffs (not the Finals). Take your pick. Or just name me some other players who were the only All-Star and only All-NBA player on a championship team, who also led that team in scoring and assists throughout the regular season and playoffs and we're not the best player on their team.

[Kidd K]

When I said MJ, I meant Magic Johnson, not Michael Jordan, though I agree that typically MJ is known to be Michael Jordan.

Oh okay, my bad man.

[FkLA]

I'm talking about the fact that GP was a freiking journeyman who chased rings to 5 different teams to finally get his title (Miami). He numbers were terrible in the postseason (shooting percentage dropped from 47% to 44%) and he averaged 14.0 PPG for his career. Wow, that's so amazing. He was a great defender and almost gave Jordan enough trouble to do something (but didn't). Parker not only outplayed Lebron James in the 2007 Finals, but was the best player on the Spurs throughout the 2014 regular season and postseason. I know you and the krew are too biased to understand that, but I'm sorry. Your hate of one of the best point guards to ever play the game is beyond irrational, and we're just glad you aren't a coach, announcer, or basketball analyst. You would have probably benched Parker when he was a top MVP candidate.

lol you fucking moron, of course his last years when he was past his prime brought his averages down. Just like this year and future years will bring Enrique's averages down. During their primes it was no contest...GP was the better scorer, passer and defender.

[FkLA]

Just because he played against Gibson in the Finals....he is automatically disqualified from being "the best player on a championship team"?

:lol Dat logic

Come on now, you don't actually believe he was the best player on the team in 07 do you? I can see the Enrique tards thinking that but not you. Timmy was still a Top 5 (probably Top 3) player in the league. Manu was still Manu. Enrique was pretty much the third best player on the team...he just happened to see a chance for personal glory with Gibson lined up opposite of him and took it.

[SASdynasty!]

Come on now, you don't actually believe he was the best player on the team in 07 do you? I can see the Enrique tards thinking that but not you. Timmy was still a Top 5 (probably Top 3) player in the league. Manu was still Manu. Enrique was pretty much the third best player on the team...he just happened to see a chance for personal glory with Gibson lined up opposite of him and took it.
Oh please...Gibson wasn't so terrible 2 rounds before when Kidd couldn't go off on him. He wasn't terrible when Billups couldn't go off on him. But all of a sudden Parker goes off and you guys act like anyone could do it. Then why didn't those guys? Why did they average like 15 PPG on terrible shooting when Parker goes for 25 PPG on amazing shooting? Probably because the Cleveland front court all of a sudden just let Parker go off (not because Parker had a great series). You guys will go to any lengths...it's pretty sad. You try to discredit the highest honor in the NBA by naming a guy who did just fine against 2 other great guards the 2 series before. Good try morons.

[dbreiden83080]

Are Nash, Stockton, and Kidd on this list because they stat padded for an extra 5 to 7 years?

Prime vs Prime Parker is not Stockton. Stockton was the ultimate floor general. Picture the Kidd that was in the finals 2 years in a row. Was Parker ever as good as him? Tony is/was an all star level PG that played on great Spurs teams, he is not an all time great PG. I don't give him the shit a lot of people around here do for his flaws, but he obviously has them..

[Silver&Black]

Come on now, you don't actually believe he was the best player on the team in 07 do you? I can see the Enrique tards thinking that but not you. Timmy was still a Top 5 (probably Top 3) player in the league. Manu was still Manu. Enrique was pretty much the third best player on the team...he just happened to see a chance for personal glory with Gibson lined up opposite of him and took it.

I never said that FkLA...I never said that Porky boy was the best player on that team.

Timmy was the man in 07....EVERYBODY knows that. I just said that for Parker to be automatically disqualified because of an opponent is retarded. And IMO Parker was the 2nd best player on the team that year.

[dbreiden83080]

I'll take a PG who's proven he can be the best player on a championship team (and proven he can be a top-3 guy multiple times on other championship teams) over guys who were the 2nd best player on teams that couldn't win. Add to that KJ's short career (which keep his stats inflated) and they still aren't much better than Parker's. Parker was a better scorer and creator than GP on offense, but obviously not on defense.

When was Tony ever the best player on a title team? 2007 finals MVP in an easy sweep against the Cavs. Duncan was far and away the best player all year long and the playoffs..

[SASdynasty!]

When was Tony ever the best player on a title team? 2007 finals MVP in an easy sweep against the Cavs. Duncan was far and away the best player all year long and the playoffs..
2014.

Led Spurs in scoring throughout the regular season.
Led Spurs in assists throughout the regular season.
Led Spurs in scoring throughout the playoffs.
Led Spurs in assists throughout the playoffs.
Was the ONLY All-Star (league coaches vote) on the Spurs.
Was the ONLY All-NBA player on the Spurs.

Give me examples of other players who accomplished all of the above in a season and weren't the best player on their championship team.

[da_suns_fan]

Comparing players to guys from the pre-merger NBA is pretty stupid. The game was completely different (no three point shot, talent was spread across two leagues etc).

A better question would be is Tony Parker top five in the modern era (since merger). The answer is obviously no.

Kevin Johnson average 28 points and 9 assists on 57% shooting in seven games against the champion Houston Rockets in 1995 and I wouldnt say he was top five.

Tony Parker? Please.

[da_suns_fan]

2014.

Led Spurs in scoring throughout the regular season.
Led Spurs in assists throughout the regular season.
Led Spurs in scoring throughout the playoffs.
Led Spurs in assists throughout the playoffs.
Was the ONLY All-Star (league coaches vote) on the Spurs.
Was the ONLY All-NBA player on the Spurs.

Give me examples of other players who accomplished all of the above in a season and weren't the best player on their championship team.


And Im sure if the Heat could have picked a player to take off the 2014 Spurs their choices would have been:

1) Duncan
2) Leonard
3) Ginobili

You can have Parker.

[da_suns_fan]

1) Magic
2) Stockton
3) Everyone else

But you would be hard pressed to explain how Tony Parker was "better" than Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, Isiah Thomas, Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Kevin Johnson etc.

You could probably assume that both Derrick Rose and Steph Curry's careers have already surpassed Tony Parker's (Parker never sniffed an MVP).

[SASdynasty!]

Comparing players to guys from the pre-merger NBA is pretty stupid. The game was completely different (no three point shot, talent was spread across two leagues etc).

A better question would be is Tony Parker top five in the modern era (since merger). The answer is obviously no.

Kevin Johnson average 28 points and 9 assists on 57% shooting in seven games against the champion Houston Rockets in 1995 and I wouldnt say he was top five.

Tony Parker? Please.
So what?

Parker averaged 25 points on 57% shooting in the NBA Finals in 2007 against Cleveland.
Then he averaged 30 points and 7 assists on 52% shooting in 2008 against Phoenix.
Then he averaged 29 points and 7 assists on 55% shooting in 2009 against Dallas.
Then he averaged 25 points and 10 assists on 53% shooting in 2013 against Memphis.

Wow, but Kevin Johnson averaged 28 points in one series....ooooohhhh woooooooww! He's so amazing! But he came up big in the Finals with a whopping 17 PPG on 42% shooting. KJ clutch! Almost scored more than Dan Majerle in that series!

[SASdynasty!]

And Im sure if the Heat could have picked a player to take off the 2014 Spurs their choices would have been:

1) Duncan
2) Leonard
3) Ginobili

You can have Parker.
Good argument...I'm sure that's why they used their best defensive player to guard him in big moments like they did the year before. Lol, Ginobili.

[dbreiden83080]

2014.

Led Spurs in scoring throughout the regular season.
Led Spurs in assists throughout the regular season.
Led Spurs in scoring throughout the playoffs.
Led Spurs in assists throughout the playoffs.
Was the ONLY All-Star (league coaches vote) on the Spurs.
Was the ONLY All-NBA player on the Spurs.

Give me examples of other players who accomplished all of the above in a season and weren't the best player on their championship team.

And he was so valuable we beat OKC with his behind firmly glued to the bench..

[SASdynasty!]

And he was so valuable we beat OKC with his behind firmly glued to the bench..
And the Clippers destroyed Houston on the road with no CP3. He must not be important to that team. Lol, is that the only argument you guys have left? That he sat out half a game that we almost choked away at the end of regulation and won in overtime?

[itsamanuthree]

Good argument...I'm sure that's why they used their best defensive player to guard him in big moments like they did the year before. Lol, Ginobili.

His comment about Ginobili is very reasonable, IMO. It's dumb for you to laugh at it. Remove Manu from the team and the bench falls to pieces. Now, would Parker have sit, the team had other weapons (better weapons, IMO), and it's not like he was essential playmaking wise either.

[Clipper Nation]

Just because he played against Gibson in the Finals....he is automatically disqualified from being "the best player on a championship team"?

:lol Dat logic
Duncan and Manu were the best players on that team. Rique was just awarded a participation ribbon for statpadding against a D-Leaguer for four games. If this were hockey, Duncan would have won the Conn Smythe while Porker would have gotten nothing other than another coattailing ring.

[Silver&Black]

Duncan and Manu were the best players on that team. Rique was just awarded a participation ribbon for statpadding against a D-Leaguer for four games. If this were hockey, Duncan would have won the Conn Smythe while Porker would have gotten nothing other than another coattailing ring.

Duncan...for sure.
Manu...I can't go that far.

It's funny that all you Parker haters seem to forget that he was once one of the best PGs in the league. Sure, he's wet dog shit right now...but that doesn't diminish what he did in the past. In 07, Parker was the 2nd best player on the team. And that's no slap in the face when you've got one of the GOATs playing on your team.

And this isn't H:lolckey

[Spur-Addict]

The fuck are you talking about you dumb faggot? GP averaged 20+ PPG seven times in his career, Enrique has done it twice. GP averaged 7+ APG ten years in a row, Enrique has done that twice. If we include defense GP shits on him that much more. There is no argument that puts Enrique over GP.

:lmao

[TheGreatYacht]

And the Clippers destroyed Houston on the road with no CP3. He must not be important to that team. Lol, is that the only argument you guys have left? That he sat out half a game that we almost choked away at the end of regulation and won in overtime?
:wow bah gad Dynasty, that killed them

[romain.star]

of course not top 5

maybe top 10 tough

[TDfan2007]

2014.

Led Spurs in scoring throughout the regular season.
Led Spurs in assists throughout the regular season.
Led Spurs in scoring throughout the playoffs.
Led Spurs in assists throughout the playoffs.
Was the ONLY All-Star (league coaches vote) on the Spurs.
Was the ONLY All-NBA player on the Spurs.

Give me examples of other players who accomplished all of the above in a season and weren't the best player on their championship team.

If you seriously think that Tony was the best player on last year's championship squad, then there's no hope for you. Tony was MAYBE the third best player.

[TDfan2007]

So what?

Parker averaged 25 points on 57% shooting in the NBA Finals in 2007 against Cleveland.
Then he averaged 30 points and 7 assists on 52% shooting in 2008 against Phoenix.
Then he averaged 29 points and 7 assists on 55% shooting in 2009 against Dallas.
Then he averaged 25 points and 10 assists on 53% shooting in 2013 against Memphis.

Wow, but Kevin Johnson averaged 28 points in one series....ooooohhhh woooooooww! He's so amazing! But he came up big in the Finals with a whopping 17 PPG on 42% shooting. KJ clutch! Almost scored more than Dan Majerle in that series!

Tony has had maybe 5 solid playoff runs in his career. 07, 08, 09 (he was amazing, but had no help outside of Timmy), 12 (although he was subpar against OKC), and 13 (his most dominant run). As a whole he's been mostly underwhelming in the playoffs, as his efficiency took a significant hit from RS to playoffs almost every year.

[SASdynasty!]

If you seriously think that Tony was the best player on last year's championship squad, then there's no hope for you. Tony was MAYBE the third best player.
I get that you're biased against TP (see your avatar for proof), so all I'm asking is for you to please give me a list of players who won a championship as their team's leading scorer throughout the regular season and playoffs, led the team in assists throughout the regular season and playoffs, and was the only All-Star and All-NBA player on the team, and yet was not the team's best player. Then give me the list of the players who accomplished all of the above and was "MAYBE the third best player" on said team. If you can provide that list, then I'll know you have a valid argument and aren't just a TP hater like 25% of this board.

[Sean Cagney]

Well lets start naming the all time greats according to most

Magic
Isiah
Stockton
Kidd
Cousy
Nash
Paul
West
Frazier
Payton

That is not really in order.. I think he is right there with Steve Nash but that's about it..
This...

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Keep up the debate boys

[Agloco]

Lol...

Parker isn't top 5. Not even the biggest homers would say that.

[Clipper Nation]

And the Clippers destroyed Houston on the road with no CP3. He must not be important to that team. Lol, is that the only argument you guys have left? That he sat out half a game that we almost choked away at the end of regulation and won in overtime?
We went from beating Houston without Choke Paul to gagging away a 3-1 lead and a 19-point lead with him.

Likewise, you went from closing Portland and OKC out without Enrique to losing in the first round with him.

:cry But, but, raw points are all that matters!!! :cry

[SASdynasty!]

We went from beating Houston without Choke Paul to gagging away a 3-1 lead and a 19-point lead with him.

Likewise, you went from closing Portland and OKC out without Enrique to losing in the first round with him.

:cry But, but, raw points are all that matters!!! :cry
And closing out Dallas and Miami with him, don't forget.

[spurs10]

Probably in terms of success....what else matters..I forgot?

[Malik Hairston]

Top 5? Of all-time? :lmao:lmao Jesus, what the fuck? Are you serious? :lmao man, stop, this is painful, tbh..

[itsamanuthree]

Probably in terms of success....what else matters..I forgot?

Aha, spicy

[N0 LyF3 ScRuB]

Top 5? Of all-time? :lmao:lmao Jesus, what the fuck? Are you serious? :lmao man, stop, this is painful, tbh..
:lol I never gave my opinion.. Just a debate, tbh..

[itsamanuthree]

I thought to myself, could he potentially be top five? Think about it, who out there could be greater?

[spurs10]

Aha, spicy :lol A bit...with the point being is that everybody is playing a role on a team. It doesn't matter if Nash, CP3, or Pocahontas rack a whole mess of stats if they don't win. Winning is the object and the Spurs have been pretty damn good at it. In fact the best in ALL TEAM sports for the last 16 years. :toast

All the guys counting their pocket change deciding whether than can upgrade to a full meal deal need to consider the success Tony has achieved. It will put him in the Hall of Fame.

[-21-]

Not even close imo. Top 15 maybe.

[itsamanuthree]

:lol A bit...with the point being is that everybody is playing a role on a team. It doesn't matter if Nash, CP3, or Pocahontas rack a whole mess of stats if they don't win. Winning is the object and the Spurs have been pretty damn good at it. In fact the best in ALL TEAM sports for the last 16 years. :toast .

Yeah, sure, it's just that, sometimes, often frequently actually, I found myself thinking, precisely because of what you say, that team is more important than its parts, what could have happened with a PG with precisely THAT mindset, instead of Tony, which... I mean, sure, great player and all, but looked more like an undersized Carmelo Anthony running the point way too often.

[TDfan2007]

I get that you're biased against TP (see your avatar for proof), so all I'm asking is for you to please give me a list of players who won a championship as their team's leading scorer throughout the regular season and playoffs, led the team in assists throughout the regular season and playoffs, and was the only All-Star and All-NBA player on the team, and yet was not the team's best player. Then give me the list of the players who accomplished all of the above and was "MAYBE the third best player" on said team. If you can provide that list, then I'll know you have a valid argument and aren't just a TP hater like 25% of this board.

:lol I'm not biased against TP at all. Timmy just happens to be my favorite player (see my avatar for proof). Timmy was clearly the best player on the Spurs during last years title run. He led the Spurs in MINUTES (ridiculous for a guys his age), PER, and WS. He was also the team's leading rebounder and shotblocker. I said maybe third best for Tony because Manu has a solid case over Tony for #3 after Kawhi.

And I don't need to provide a list of players who qualify for some stupid arbitrary qualification that you made up to prove that I'm "not a hater." Just look at my posting history if you feel inclined.