Texas leading the way with 7 this year so far

[Blake]

".... Derrick Dewayne Charles received a lethal injection on Tuesday after the US supreme court rejected last-day appeals and wouldn’t stop his execution. He’s the seventh prisoner put to death this year in the nation’s busiest capital punishment state.Charles’s attorneys argued the 32-year-old was mentally incompetent for execution and that they needed time and court-approved money for experts and investigators to pursue that claim. State lawyers said his attorneys made similar arguments about his competency that had previously been refused by the courts.Charles pleaded guilty to capital murder charges in 2003. A Harris County jury chose a death sentence after testimony about how the victims were beaten and strangled....

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/13/texas-executes-derrick-dewayne-charles

[DarrinS]

ok

[SupremeGuy]

ok

[m>s]

Cool

[TheSanityAnnex]

Charles was arrested at a Houston motel where Brenda Bennett's car was found. Police have said he told them he beat and strangled Obie Bennett. Myiesha Bennett was choked with an extension cord, beaten with a box containing stereo speakers and hit with a TV.
Brenda Bennett was thrown into a water-filled bathtub along with a plugged-in TV. When that failed to electrocute her, she was dragged through the house, raped and strangled.


:clap Derrick Dewayne Charles received a lethal injection on Tuesday :clap

[Wild Cobra]

Great job Texas!

We need to get more scum out of society. We just don't do that enough. Jail is expensive.

[CosmicCowboy]

Go Team!!!!

[Blake]

ok

alright

[Blake]

Jail is expensive.

execution process is more expensive than life in prison

[CosmicCowboy]

execution process is more expensive than life in prison

And how is that?

[boutons_deux]

COSTS: Death Penalty Costs in Texas Outweigh Life Imprisonment

County estimates in Texas indicate that the death penalty system is much more expensive than sentencing inmates to life imprisonment.

Gray Countyspent nearly $1 million seeking the death penalty against Levi King, even though he pleaded guilty to murder.

Moreover, these costs do not include the cost of appeals, which will further increase the cost of the capital case, nor the costs of cases in which the death penalty is sought but not given.

By comparison, a non-death penalty murder case in nearby Lubbock County typically costs about $3,000, court officials estimate.

The average cost to house an inmate in Texas prisons is $47.50 per day, according to Michelle Lyons, spokeswoman for the Texas Department of Criminal Justice.

Thus it would cost about $17,340 to house an inmate for a year and $693,500 for 40 years, far less than even part of the death penalty costs.

The regional public defender's office estimates that just the legal costs for a death penalty case from indictment to execution are $1.2 million.

Lubbock County Criminal District Attorney Matt Powell said, “I don’t dispute that it’s more expensive,” but said he never takes cost into account when deciding whether to seek the death penalty.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/costs-death-penalty-costs-texas-outweigh-life-imprisonment

$18K/year per prisoner, and"


"Texas schools :lol are spending $8,400 per student in the current school year,

well under the national average of $11,455 and

low enough to put the state 49th in a ranking of the 50 states and the District of Columbia.

Only Arizona :lol and Nevada :lol spend less on their students."

http://trailblazersblog.dallasnews.com/2013/02/texas-drops-close-to-bottom-in-student-spending.html/

Jade Helm! Rolling Thunder Redneck Abbott says "RUN for the hills, y'all!" :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

I see this claim all the time but when you drill down into the numbers it's always hypothetical legal fees they are using to justify the claim.

[boutons_deux]

I see this claim all the time but when you drill down into the numbers it's always hypothetical legal fees they are using to justify the claim.

haven't you seen all the executed prisoners on TX death row for decades, costing $18K/year? dig down? hypothetical? :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

haven't you seen all the executed prisoners on TX death row for decades, costing $18K/year? dig down? hypothetical? :lol

Cost to keep a prisoner on a life sentence vs. death row per day is irrelevant.

The big dollars claimed are all hypothetical legal fees. Prosecution attorneys are all salaried employees and are paid the same whether they are prosecuting a death penalty case or picking their nose. The defense attorneys for indigents are appointed by the judge and they aren't paid shit compared to their normal fees. For the ones that hire their own attorneys that figure shouldn't even be counted but it is. Death penalty appeals for indigents beyond the first one are all pro-bono representation. I'm saying a lot of the cost claims are bogus.

[Wild Cobra]

execution process is more expensive than life in prison
Maybe.

It definitely needs a streamlining process.

[Blake]

Maybe.

It definitely needs a streamlining process.

why the hurry to get them out of jail and into the ground.

[TheSanityAnnex]

why the hurry to get them out of jail and into the ground.


Charles was arrested at a Houston motel where Brenda Bennett's car was found. Police have said he told them he beat and strangled Obie Bennett. Myiesha Bennett was choked with an extension cord, beaten with a box containing stereo speakers and hit with a TV.
Brenda Bennett was thrown into a water-filled bathtub along with a plugged-in TV. When that failed to electrocute her, she was dragged through the house, raped and strangled.



execution process is more expensive than life in prison

You answered your own question. Fucks like Charles should be put down within a few weeks, save a shit ton of money.

[DMX7]

If someone pleads guilty to murder, I prefer the state not seek the death penalty. However, some crimes are just too horrific and I think the state should go after them. If it really costs $1.2 million on average to do that then either the appeals process is completely broken or there is some shady accounting going on.

[SnakeBoy]

Brenda Bennett was thrown into a water-filled bathtub along with a plugged-in TV. When that failed to electrocute her, she was dragged through the house, raped and strangled.


They should've electrocuted him just to show him how to do it right

[boutons_deux]

[/FONT][/COLOR]



You answered your own question. Fucks like Charles should be put down within a few weeks, save a shit ton of money.

Saving money is NEVER a Repug goal, when the money is going to the PIC.

[Blake]

You answered your own question. Fucks like Charles should be put down within a few weeks, save a shit ton of money.

you misread my answer. it's the opposite, that execution costs more than life in prison.

Wild Cobra is the one that mentioned streamlining which in effect means scrapping our appeals process.

[boutons_deux]

Cost to keep a prisoner on a life sentence vs. death row per day is irrelevant.

The big dollars claimed are all hypothetical legal fees. Prosecution attorneys are all salaried employees and are paid the same whether they are prosecuting a death penalty case or picking their nose. The defense attorneys for indigents are appointed by the judge and they aren't paid shit compared to their normal fees. For the ones that hire their own attorneys that figure shouldn't even be counted but it is. Death penalty appeals for indigents beyond the first one are all pro-bono representation. I'm saying a lot of the cost claims are bogus.

$18K/year and more for keeping a prisoner of death row for a couple decades is NOT hypothetical.

Govt attorneys waste their time on them rather than their real career-padding work of framing blacks and browns for mj possession.

[TheSanityAnnex]

you misread my answer. it's the opposite, that execution costs more than life in prison.

Wild Cobra is the one that mentioned streamlining which in effect means scrapping our appeals process.

I read your answer jus fine. The execution itself doesn't cost more, it's the years and years of court costs/appeals that cost so much. I am onboard with WC (never thought I'd say that) and streamlining the process for cases that are clear cut.

[CosmicCowboy]

$18K/year and more for keeping a prisoner of death row for a couple decades is NOT hypothetical.

Govt attorneys waste their time on them rather than their real career-padding work of framing blacks and browns for mj possession.

Stupid. They would be spending the same money per day with a life sentence. Zero sum cost.

[Blake]

I read your answer jus fine. The execution itself doesn't cost more, it's the years and years of court costs/appeals that cost so much. I am onboard with WC (never thought I'd say that) and streamlining the process for cases that are clear cut.

So you're ok with ditching the appeals process in our court system.

Fwiw, I'm not. It's not perfect, but I prefer having it over not having it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Again, the legal cost to the state is massively exaggerated. Prosecutors are salaried. The state only pays for the defense if they are indigent, and then only through the original trial and first appeal. Beyond that point the appeals are done by written brief. There are no more "trials".

[TheSanityAnnex]

So you're ok with ditching the appeals process in our court system.

Fwiw, I'm not. It's not perfect, but I prefer having it over not having it.

Never said anything about ditching the appeals process all together, but when the average stay on death row is 15 years something needs to be fixed.

Take your boy Charles for instance he should have been put to death in a week.

[Blake]

Never said anything about ditching the appeals process all together, but when the average stay on death row is 15 years something needs to be fixed.

Take your boy Charles for instance he should have been put to death in a week.

Do you know why it takes that long?

[CosmicCowboy]

Looked it up. The max a court appointed defense attorney in Bexar County can get for a death penalty case is $15,000. The prosecutors are salaried. That blows the hell out of the multi million dollar death penalty cost claims.

http://tidc.tamu.edu/IDPlanDocuments/Bexar/Bexar%20District%20Court%20Attorney%20Fee%20Schedu le.pdf

[TheSanityAnnex]

Do you know why it takes that long?
I assume so they can exhaust every option to make sure the accused is actually guilty and deserving. Fill me in though, I'm willing to listen.

As an aside, at what point do these extended stays on death row start muddying the constitutional rights of the inmates?

[cd021]

I read your answer jus fine. The execution itself doesn't cost more, it's the years and years of court costs/appeals that cost so much. I am onboard with WC (never thought I'd say that) and streamlining the process for cases that are clear cut.

There have been 152 people who were exonerated after being on death row. One would think a few of those were considered clear cut.

[TheSanityAnnex]

There have been 152 people who were exonerated after being on death row. One would think a few of those were considered clear cut.

DNA testing has been of great help. I am talking CLEAR cut, video evidence, confession, 100 witnesses etc. The Adam Lanza's of the world.

[Blake]

Looked it up. The max a court appointed defense attorney in Bexar County can get for a death penalty case is $15,000. The prosecutors are salaried. That blows the hell out of the multi million dollar death penalty cost claims.

http://tidc.tamu.edu/IDPlanDocuments/Bexar/Bexar%20District%20Court%20Attorney%20Fee%20Schedu le.pdf

This is from Forbes:



"..... While those complex debates rage on, some like to point fingers at perhaps the most simple reason to support the death penalty:*It’s cheaper to kill an inmate than to keep an inmate alive.

That may not, however, be true. “It’s 10 times more expensive to kill them than to keep them alive,”says Donald McCartin, known as The Hanging Judge of Orange County. McCartin knows a little bit about executions: he has sent nine men to death

McCartin isn’t talking about the comparisons between the cost of the actual execution and the cost of keeping an inmate in prison: those aren’t apples to apples comparisons.....

[more detail: http://www.forbes.com/sites/kellyphillipserb/2014/05/01/considering-the-death-penalty-your-tax-dollars-at-work/

If you want to deny the claims, ok, but I'm satisfied there's truth to it based on the pieces I've read.

[Blake]

DNA testing has been of great help. I am talking CLEAR cut, video evidence, confession, 100 witnesses etc. The Adam Lanza's of the world.

To be honest, in a vacuum where we have 100% undeniable proof in every case, I'd be completely good with putting down some murderous humans that proven no better to society than a rabid dog.

But we're not, and as long as there's a chance that someone might be innocent, it's a tough thing to mistakenly take someone's life because you can't get it back.

Add to the cost being that much more for execution and it really doesn't make any sense at all.

[CosmicCowboy]

This is from Forbes:



If you want to deny the claims, ok, but I'm satisfied there's truth to it based on the pieces I've read.

I already read the opinion piece you quoted. That is why I researched the actual facts on cost before calling bullshit. It is the same old anti-death penalty mantra...If you say it costs more enough times with conviction people like you actually start to believe it.

[Blake]

I already read the opinion piece you quoted. That is why I researched the actual facts on cost before calling bullshit. It is the same old anti-death penalty mantra...If you say it costs more enough times with conviction people like you actually start to believe it.

The only fact sheet you posted and have been claiming as proof is attorney fees. It's more than that.

If you'd read the Forbes piece, or any other number of pieces out there that spell it out all the costs in detail, you'd know that.

[TheSanityAnnex]

To be honest, in a vacuum where we have 100% undeniable proof in every case, I'd be completely good with putting down some murderous humans that proven no better to society than a rabid dog.

But we're not, and as long as there's a chance that someone might be innocent, it's a tough thing to mistakenly take someone's life because you can't get it back.

Add to the cost being that much more for execution and it really doesn't make any sense at all.

I think we are basically on the same page on this issue, only difference being that I believe there are times where it is 100% undeniable proof someone committed the crime that earned them the death penalty, and those people should not be able to waste tax payer money filing appeal after appeal. And the cases where there isn't 100% undeniable proof still should not take on average 15 years. Allocate more resources and speed the process up if need be, 15 years isn't fair to the taxpayer nor the inmate.


Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was just sentenced to death. Should we waste taxpayer money on all of his appeals or take him out back and put a bullet in his head tonight? Which by the way is another thing I want changed, bring back the firing squad. No point in wasting even more taxpayer dollars on lethal injections that don't always work as intended. You could kill them for under a dollar.


edit to add: I didn't want the death penalty for Tsarnaev, I wanted that fuck to be put in a Boston prison in general population and let the inmates handle it.

[CosmicCowboy]

The only fact sheet you posted and have been claiming as proof is attorney fees. It's more than that.

If you'd read the Forbes piece, or any other number of pieces out there that spell it out all the costs in detail, you'd know that.

Believe what you want. The cost comparison is bullshit.

The reason "life in prison" trials for potential capital crimes are cheaper is because they plead out for the reduced sentence so it doesn't have to go to trial and risk the needle. Take the needle out of the equation and they have no incentive to plea and every one will go to trial. Overall cost will increase, not decrease.

It is simple logic.

Prosecution is salaried. They get paid no matter what they are doing. Take that cost out of the claim.
At least half of capital cases hire their own defense attorneys. That doesn't cost the state a dime. Take that cost out of the claim.
For the public defenders I linked the cost. $15,000 for a death penalty case certainly isn't "millions"
Say another $15,000 for the appeal and the public defender is done. The State has fulfilled it's legal obligation.
Any further defense motions/appeals are done by pro-bono attorneys and cost the state nothing.
The appeals briefs for the prosecution again are from salaried attorneys. Take that cost out of the claim
It doesn't cost any more per day to keep a guy on death row than it does for a life in prison sentence in a a maximum security prison.

In other words, the claim that death penalty cases cost millions more than life sentence trials is total bullshit.

[Blake]

Again, you're trying to make this all about prosecutors being on salary. I got past that a long time ago. If you wanna stay stuck on that ok.

[CosmicCowboy]

Again, you're trying to make this all about prosecutors being on salary. I got past that a long time ago. If you wanna stay stuck on that ok.

I notice that you conveniently ignored that if you take the death penalty out of the equation there would be no incentive for a criminal to plead guilty in order to get life in prison. Every capital case would automatically go to trial.

[Blake]

I'm gonna pass on discussing it any more unless you get an outside reputable source to confirm.

Until then, I'm pretty content with believing Forbes over you. Sorry, no offense.

[CosmicCowboy]

I'm gonna pass on discussing it any more unless you get an outside reputable source to confirm.

Until then, I'm pretty content with believing Forbes over you. Sorry, no offense.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02724/sheep_2724972b.jpg
Baaaaaaaaa!

[DMX7]

No one is really feeling sorry for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (just got the death penalty).

[TheSanityAnnex]

No one is really feeling sorry for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev (just got the death penalty).

:cry pls a peelcort pls :cry

[CosmicCowboy]

The 80% of the people that support the death penalty in the US don't go out and form pro-death penalty organizations and write pro death penalty newspaper articles and make being for the death penalty a focus in their life...they just support it. The minority anti's however are rabid in their opposition....linking an opinion piece that references another opinion piece that references multiple partisan "death penalty studies" certainly raises my suspicions. I addressed and refuted the claims point by point. Distorting the figures to make an economic case that supports their moral case is just the latest ploy of the anti's to attempt to sway public opinion.

[Blake]

The 80% of the people that support the death penalty in the US don't go out and form pro-death penalty organizations

64% of the states have the death penalty so not much of a need for a pro-death org

[DMX7]

I like Rachel Maddow, but she is obsessed with trying to use the availability/efficacy of lethal injection drugs to undermine the whole concept of the death penalty. Utah recently legalized firing squads as a means of execution. That's a cheap, quick and effective method.

[TheSanityAnnex]

To be honest, in a vacuum where we have 100% undeniable proof in every case, I'd be completely good with putting down some murderous humans that proven no better to society than a rabid dog.

But we're not, and as long as there's a chance that someone might be innocent, it's a tough thing to mistakenly take someone's life because you can't get it back.

Add to the cost being that much more for execution and it really doesn't make any sense at all.

Thoughts on Dzhokhar Tsarnaev? Should he get the years and years of appeals or be done with in a week?

[DMX7]

I like Rachel Maddow, but she is obsessed with trying to use the availability/efficacy of lethal injection drugs to undermine the whole concept of the death penalty. Utah recently legalized firing squads as a means of execution. That's a cheap, quick and effective method.

Like clockwork, Rachel has spent her entire show up to this point railing against the death penalty... and unconvincingly to boot.

[Blake]

Thoughts on Dzhokhar Tsarnaev? Should he get the years and years of appeals or be done with in a week?

Appeals. I'm good with him being in prison for life too

[angrydude]

The state can't be trusted to execute the right people. Cops lie. Juries are a joke. There's an easy way to reduce the amount of money spent on prisons............start decriminalizing no-victim non violent offences.

[boutons_deux]

start decriminalizing no-victim non violent offences.

you left out career-stuffing, political careerist prosecutors, DAs, conspiring with cops.

decriminalize mj completely, take it off the DEA schedule, treat like the much more dangerous, sickening alcohol and tobacco.

But America can't do smart, civilized stuff any more. It only protects and adds the stupid shit (because somebody gets paid). And of course the Repugs and tea baggers obstruct EVERYTHING except what the VRWC/1%/BigCorp pays them to do.

[Th'Pusher]

Believe what you want. The cost comparison is bullshit.

The reason "life in prison" trials for potential capital crimes are cheaper is because they plead out for the reduced sentence so it doesn't have to go to trial and risk the needle. Take the needle out of the equation and they have no incentive to plea and every one will go to trial. Overall cost will increase, not decrease.

It is simple logic.

Prosecution is salaried. They get paid no matter what they are doing. Take that cost out of the claim.
At least half of capital cases hire their own defense attorneys. That doesn't cost the state a dime. Take that cost out of the claim.
For the public defenders I linked the cost. $15,000 for a death penalty case certainly isn't "millions"
Say another $15,000 for the appeal and the public defender is done. The State has fulfilled it's legal obligation.
Any further defense motions/appeals are done by pro-bono attorneys and cost the state nothing.
The appeals briefs for the prosecution again are from salaried attorneys. Take that cost out of the claim
It doesn't cost any more per day to keep a guy on death row than it does for a life in prison sentence in a a maximum security prison.

In other words, the claim that death penalty cases cost millions more than life sentence trials is total bullshit.
Look up the definition of opportunity cost. Just because someone is salaried doesn't mean you can take the cost out of the equation. And you think the public defender is the only cost to the state for conducting a trial? Are you kidding? You can't be this stupid.

[SupremeGuy]

:cry I don't support the death penalty because it's more expensive :cry

Sure buddy, sure.

[Blake]

:cry I don't support the death penalty because it's more expensive :cry

Sure buddy, sure.

It's reason #2 for me, killa.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Stupid. They would be spending the same money per day with a life sentence. Zero sum cost.

This is pretty ignorant. Most states have automatic appeals procedures in death penalty cases. And assuming zero sum accounting with no proof is pretty stupid as well.

Good job, fatty.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The 80% of the people that support the death penalty in the US don't go out and form pro-death penalty organizations and write pro death penalty newspaper articles and make being for the death penalty a focus in their life...they just support it. The minority anti's however are rabid in their opposition....linking an opinion piece that references another opinion piece that references multiple partisan "death penalty studies" certainly raises my suspicions. I addressed and refuted the claims point by point. Distorting the figures to make an economic case that supports their moral case is just the latest ploy of the anti's to attempt to sway public opinion.

Nice attempt to marginalize the competition with wishful thinking. You do WC proud with these mental gymnastics of horseshit.

[CosmicCowboy]

You do boutons proud with your pompous ignorance. Opportunity cost? Yeah I guess that attorney could be plunging toilets instead of writing briefs.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You do boutons proud with your pompous ignorance. Opportunity cost? Yeah I guess that attorney could be plunging toilets instead of writing briefs.

You do no one proud with stupid takes like that. Oh noes he called him boutons!

[Th'Pusher]

You do boutons proud with your pompous ignorance. Opportunity cost? Yeah I guess that attorney could be plunging toilets instead of writing briefs.
:lol are you actually going to stand by your completely ignorant statement that the only cost to the state for a capital punishment trial is the fee to the public defender?

[CosmicCowboy]

Your reading comprehension sucks. I made no such claim.

[CosmicCowboy]

Comparing cost of death penalty trials to trials that plead out to avoid the death penalty is juvenile logic. The incentive to plea is gone without it.

[The Reckoning]

bullet is a lot cheaper

[Th'Pusher]

Comparing cost of death penalty trials to trials that plead out to avoid the death penalty is juvenile logic. The incentive to plea is gone without it.
What was the point of you looking up the max a court appointed defense attorney in Bexar County can get for a death penalty case is $15,000?

[Ignignokt]

ITT: cuck logic obliterated

[Th'Pusher]

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html

[TheSanityAnnex]

Appeals. I'm good with him being in prison for life too
You complained about it being so expensive yet here you are supporting exactly what makes the death penalty so expensive. I don't get it.

[Wild Cobra]

Appeals. I'm good with him being in prison for life too

I think we should just execute all who committed first degree murder. Use our jails for prisoners more likely to be rehabilitated.

[Blake]

You complained about it being so expensive yet here you are supporting exactly what makes the death penalty so expensive. I don't get it.

I'm not complaining that the death penalty is more expensive. Just stating that it is.

are you for appeals or not? You can't have it both ways.

[Blake]

I think we should just execute all who committed first degree murder. Use our jails for prisoners more likely to be rehabilitated.

so you don't think that people should be put in jail for life

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Our criminal justice system doesn't rehabilitate anything. It is well known to increase recidivism and severity of criminal activities from participants. The death penalty is not an effective deterrent either. It is punitive for the sake of being punitive and little more.

[Wild Cobra]

so you don't think that people should be put in jail for life
If they are to never to return to society, then kill them.

Period!

[Wild Cobra]

The death penalty is not an effective deterrent either. It is punitive for the sake of being punitive and little more.
Even if we accept that as the truth, what's wrong with it?

[Blake]

If they are to never to return to society, then kill them.

Period!

So what's the max time you think we should have criminals be in jail? How many years?

[Blake]

Even if we accept that as the truth, what's wrong with it?

Because we might end up executing innocent people

[Wild Cobra]

So what's the max time you think we should have criminals be in jail? How many years?

I think we generally put people in jail for too long of a time. I have no set idea, but mitigating reasons should play a role in sentencing. Some states have zero tolerance laws or minimum sentencing standards that are often unfair.

[Wild Cobra]

Because we might end up executing innocent people
And how is that different than any other thing we do by accident?

Shit happens. All we can do, is our best to not let that happen.

[Blake]

I think we generally put people in jail for too long of a time. I have no set idea, but mitigating reasons should play a role in sentencing. Some states have zero tolerance laws or minimum sentencing standards that are often unfair.

Cmon, throw out a number. If we do it your way, we're gonna need one.

[Blake]

And how is that different than any other thing we do by accident?

Shit happens. All we can do, is our best to not let that happen.

There's no raising someone back from the dead if we realize we made a mistake.

[Wild Cobra]

Cmon, throw out a number. If we do it your way, we're gonna need one.
Well of coarse, 100 years would be excessive.

Why the concern? If someone is going to jail for life, then they must not be seen as redeemable. A sentence may be so long that we expect someone would die in prison, but unless the sentence is life without parole, then prisoners often see much shorter sentences for good behavior.

Would you agree that if a person is deemed nonredeemable, that we should just "off them," putting them out of their misery, and society's misery?

[Blake]

Well of coarse, 100 years would be excessive.

Why the concern? If someone is going to jail for life, then they must not be seen as redeemable. A sentence may be so long that we expect someone would die in prison, but unless the sentence is life without parole, then prisoners often see much shorter sentences for good behavior.

Would you agree that if a person is deemed nonredeemable, that we should just "off them," putting them out of their misery, and society's misery?

Give a number or this is going nowhere.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Even if we accept that as the truth, what's wrong with it?

Well it costs more money and does nothing good for society. It doesn't reduce violent crime much less murders. What's wrong with killing anyone if oyu are going to go that route?

Your life doesn't seem to be worth much why not kill you? What's wrong with it?

[TheSanityAnnex]

I'm not complaining that the death penalty is more expensive. Just stating that it is.

are you for appeals or not? You can't have it both ways.

I'm for appeals when the case is not clear cut, but why should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be able to appeal anything? Waste of taxpayer dollars imo.

[Blake]

Appeals are there to keep the prosecution in check.

I agree with most of these reasons for this guy's right to appeal:

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/2015/05/17/what-tsarnaev-attorneys-might-argue-appeal/fz5f189Qy5mXRpMIfzXD2I/story.html?p1=feature_pri_hp

1. The defense did not have fair access to the prosecution's evidence because they deemed it an act of terror

2. Since Mass is a non-death penalty state, the venue was bogus. Every one of the jurors had to sign a letter stating they were willing to go through with death penalty; if they didn't sign, they were excused from duty. Therefore the jury was skewed unfavorably towards the death penalty.

I don't like that the trial was potentially fucked up, but that's why we have appeals.

[angrydude]

I'm for appeals when the case is not clear cut, but why should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be able to appeal anything? Waste of taxpayer dollars imo.

Because of the constitution and this whole thing called due process.

[Slutter McGee]

A few thoughts on the death penalty.

1. I don't support the Federal Death penalty. Have no problem with it at the state level.
2. It does cost more to execute than life in prison.
3. Appeals are absolutely necessary, even when there is no doubt on guilt.
4. It is a deterrent. Recent studies show that each execution stops about 5 murders. I can post the regression analysis and data if desired.

Slutter McGee

[TheSanityAnnex]

Because of the constitution and this whole thing called due process.

It wasn't intended to take on average 15 years and the constitutionality of that is being challenged already as cruel and unusual punishment.

[Blake]

A few thoughts on the death penalty.

1. I don't support the Federal Death penalty. Have no problem with it at the state level.
2. It does cost more to execute than life in prison.
3. Appeals are absolutely necessary, even when there is no doubt on guilt.
4. It is a deterrent. Recent studies show that each execution stops about 5 murders. I can post the regression analysis and data if desired.

Slutter McGee

I'd like to see the data on #4 thanks

[Slutter McGee]

Probably the seminal work was done by professor Ehrlich out of Buffalo in the 70's. This was the first time actual economic analysis was done on the subject. He found a deterrent effect of eight murders per execution. But honestly there were huge problems with his data set. He used aggregate data, which can really call into question some of his results. Anyway below is where you can find the paper.

The Deterrent Effect of Capital Punishment: A Question of Life and DeathAuthor(s): Isaac EhrlichSource: The American Economic Review, Vol. 65, No. 3 (Jun., 1975), pp. 397-417
http://deathpenalty.procon.org/sourcefiles/Issac%20Ehrlich%20The%20Deterrent%20Effect%20of%20 Capital%20Punishment%20A%20Question%20of%20Life%20 and%20Death.pdf

A far better paper is by professor Gittings and professor Mocan. They used a far better data set making use of state level panel data and a regression model that I think is better.

"GETTING OFF DEATH ROW: COMMUTEDSENTENCES AND THE DETERRENT EFFECTOF CAPITAL PUNISHMENT"

Here is a working paper

http://www.econ.jku.at/members/Buchegger/files/Juristen/mocan_2003_death%20penalty.pdf

I am pretty sure that was published in the Journal of Law and Economics but I don't have the info on that. Its also much more recent.

Sorry for the wait.

Slutter McGee

[pgardn]

I think about the victims remaining and closure.

I watched a documentary with relatives needing the death of the assailant to go on mentally. It all lead to the inherent property of the brain desiring revenge, very interesting. Other victims got nothing out of the execution, the perceived closure never occurred.

The fact that some victims left behind did get closure and were able to function as normal human beings again changed my mind about the whole thing. So fck the economics.

[boutons_deux]

again, the huge problem with executions, and the entire justice system, is its incompetence and outright corruption by damn near every member.

[boutons_deux]

Justice Antonin Scalia is dead wrong about the death penalty — and here is why


In a 1994 opinion, Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia took a shot at fellow Justice Harry Blackmun’s concerns about the death penalty by citing a case in North Carolina where a man was convicted of raping and murdering an 11-year-old girl.Referring to convicted killer Henry Lee McCollum, Scalia wrote, “For example, the case of an 11-year-old girl raped by four men and then killed by stuffing her panties down her throat. How enviable a quiet death by lethal injection compared with that!”

The two men were prosecuted by Joe Freeman Britt, a Bible-quoting district attorney later profiled by “60 Minutes” as the country’s “deadliest D.A.” known for his frequent seeking of the death penalty.

McCollum, who was never executed by lethal injection for the rape and murder over 30 years ago, was exonerated last year (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/03/us/2-convicted-in-1983-north-carolina-murder-freed-after-dna-tests.html?_r=0) after he and his half-brother, Leon Brown, were cleared by investigators using DNA evidence.

According to the News-Observer (http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article23091657.html), both Henry McCollum and Leon Brown were officially pardoned by North Carolina Governor Pat McCrory on Thursday, making each of them eligible to now receive $750,000 in compensation from the state.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/justice-antonin-scalia-is-dead-wrong-about-the-death-penalty-and-here-is-why/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheRawStory+%28The+Raw+Story% 29

[Clipper Nation]

I'm for appeals when the case is not clear cut, but why should Dzhokhar Tsarnaev be able to appeal anything? Waste of taxpayer dollars imo.
Problem is that a lot of cases seem "clear-cut" at the time until new evidence is released or someone else confesses and it exonerates the original guilty party - and if that original guilty party has already been executed, then the state is responsible for killing an innocent person. Not saying that's the case here, but it does happen. That's why we have an appeals process instead of marching people directly to the chair from the courtroom. Unfortunately, the side effect of this is that scumbags like Tsarnaev get to drag things out in the court system forever.

IMO, the negatives involved in the death penalty by far outweigh the lone positive of the feeling of retribution and that justice was served. Mistakes can't be corrected, and the death penalty is far more expensive to taxpayers than life in prison while also lacking a moral or rational argument to reduce those costs.

[boutons_deux]

SCOTUS%: #PrisonerLiveDontMatter

Supreme Court Allows Use of Execution Drug

[T]he Court today turns aside petitioners’ plea that they at least be allowed a stay of execution while they seek to prove midazolam’s inadequacy.

The Court achieves this result in two ways:

first, by deferring to the District Court’s decision to credit the scientifically unsup*ported and implausible testimony of a single expert witness;

and second, by faulting petitioners for failing to satisfy the wholly novel requirement of proving the availability of an alternative means for their own executions.

On both counts the Court errs.

As a result, it leaves petitioners exposed to what may well be the chemical equivalent of being burned at the stake.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/30/us/supreme-court-execution-drug.html?_r=0

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2015/06/sotomayor-death-penalty-burned-at-stake

[boutons_deux]

Repug judicial garbage masquerading as SCOTUS judge

Justice Scalia: The death penalty deters crime. Experts: No, it doesn’t.

http://www.vox.com/2015/6/29/8861727/antonin-scalia-death-penalty

OTOH, serious judges:

Breyer and Ginsburg: 'Highly Likely' Death Penalty Unconstitutional

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/breyer-ginsburg-death-penaty-unconstituional?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpm-news+%28TPMNews%29

[Slutter McGee]

Probably the seminal work was done by professor Ehrlich out of Buffalo in the 70's. This was the first time actual economic analysis was done on the subject. He found a deterrent effect of eight murders per execution. But honestly there were huge problems with his data set. He used aggregate data, which can really call into question some of his results. Anyway below is where you can find the paper.

The Deterrent Effect of Capital Punishment: A Question of Life and DeathAuthor(s): Isaac EhrlichSource: The American Economic Review, Vol. 65, No. 3 (Jun., 1975), pp. 397-417
http://deathpenalty.procon.org/sourcefiles/Issac%20Ehrlich%20The%20Deterrent%20Effect%20of%20 Capital%20Punishment%20A%20Question%20of%20Life%20 and%20Death.pdf

A far better paper is by professor Gittings and professor Mocan. They used a far better data set making use of state level panel data and a regression model that I think is better.

"GETTING OFF DEATH ROW: COMMUTEDSENTENCES AND THE DETERRENT EFFECTOF CAPITAL PUNISHMENT"

Here is a working paper

http://www.econ.jku.at/members/Buchegger/files/Juristen/mocan_2003_death%20penalty.pdf

I am pretty sure that was published in the Journal of Law and Economics but I don't have the info on that. Its also much more recent.

Sorry for the wait.

Slutter McGee
Here ya go splits.