Say what you will about the Little General...

[FkLA]

...but he never needed back-up PGs to close out WCFs or Finals for him.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3C9i6Xg_J9g


Meanwhile:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEJA1X1_Lp4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA68HU8wUMo


*not included are Kerr bailing him out in the '03 WCFs, Barry in the '05 Finals, CoJo in the '14 WCFs

[FkLA]

MVPaddy would've probably come through again this year but Pop strayed from the blueprint, unfortunately.

[SASdynasty!]

Remember that time AJ averaged 25/10/4 on 53% in the Conferance Finals? Or remember that time he averaged 25/5/5 on 57% in the Finals? Oh right, never mind, that was Parker.

[SASdynasty!]

Then what did AJ average in the Conference Finals? Oh right it was 12/8/2 on 41%. And what about the Finals...even better: 9/7/3 on 50%. Lol, are you kidding me with this thread? Lol.

[cd98]

Dumb argument. Avery wouldn't get off the bench on this past year's squad.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Remember that time AJ averaged 25/10/4 on 53% in the Conferance Finals? Or remember that time he averaged 25/5/5 on 57% in the Finals? Oh right, never mind, that was Parker.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Dumb argument. Avery wouldn't get off the bench on this past year's squad.

[mkurts]

Ok this Parker worshipping has gone full delusional now.

[unleashbaynes]

4 rings, faggot.

[Spur-Addict]

FkLA bringing many valid issues to the light of day. Well done :clap

[Gervin44Silas13]

Top all time starters

Duncan Robinson Gervin Avery Sean
all time Back ups

Manu Parker Silas Gilmore Bowen Kawhi Horry Kerr

[FromWayDowntown]

Avery's performance in the 2001 West Finals was epic. 6.3/1.0/2.3 on 37% from the field and 50% from the line while not even being good enough to displace Terry Porter from the starting lineup.

He was so good in that series, it prompted the Spurs to pick a 19-year old point guard (and to have him mentored by Porter).

[daslicer]

Can tell OP must be in his early 20's. Avery had series where he looked like pure garbage. Avery put up garbage numbers against the Jazz in '96 which were 10.8 points on 38 percent shooting. Avery also was even worse when it came to shooting 3 pointers compared to Parker. Since AJ couldn't hit open 3's teams would always pack the paint area and maul David simply because they knew AJ couldn't hit open shots. If Spurstalk existed during the 90's Avery would have been ripped apart on here. The OP is also right Avery never needed a backup PG to close out a series because the spurs didn't have a backup PG lol.

[cd98]

IF you saw Avery's backups, you would know why they never got any playing time. TBH, Avery was a backup quality player. Spurs didn't need an expert point guard to throw the ball to a prime David Robinson, and later, to a prime Duncan.

[TheGreatYacht]

Avery's performance in the 2001 West Finals was epic. 6.3/1.0/2.3 on 37% from the field and 50% from the line while not even being good enough to displace Terry Porter from the starting lineup.

He was so good in that series, it prompted the Spurs to pick a 19-year old point guard (and to have him mentored by Porter).

[TheGreatYacht]

Avery couldn't hold his own against Kenny Smith. Imagine him in today's golden era of PG's :lol

[ducks]

Avery's performance in the 2001 West Finals was epic. 6.3/1.0/2.3 on 37% from the field and 50% from the line while not even being good enough to displace Terry Porter from the starting lineup.

He was so good in that series, it prompted the Spurs to pick a 19-year old point guard (and to have him mentored by Porter).
:lol

[Sean Cagney]

Avery's performance in the 2001 West Finals was epic. 6.3/1.0/2.3 on 37% from the field and 50% from the line while not even being good enough to displace Terry Porter from the starting lineup.

He was so good in that series, it prompted the Spurs to pick a 19-year old point guard (and to have him mentored by Porter).

^^^ This, dude was average as hell and Parker is light years ahead of him overall in the playoffs and career wise. I like Avery but come on now.
Can tell OP must be in his early 20's. Avery had series where he looked like pure garbage. Avery put up garbage numbers against the Jazz in '96 which were 10.8 points on 38 percent shooting. Avery also was even worse when it came to shooting 3 pointers compared to Parker. Since AJ couldn't hit open 3's teams would always pack the paint area and maul David simply because they knew AJ couldn't hit open shots. If Spurstalk existed during the 90's Avery would have been ripped apart on here. The OP is also right Avery never needed a backup PG to close out a series because the spurs didn't have a backup PG lol.This is 100% the truth.

[T Park]

Avery's performance in the 2001 West Finals was epic. 6.3/1.0/2.3 on 37% from the field and 50% from the line while not even being good enough to displace Terry Porter from the starting lineup.

He was so good in that series, it prompted the Spurs to pick a 19-year old point guard (and to have him mentored by Porter).


Good ole FWD....

[T Park]

IF you saw Avery's backups, you would know why they never got any playing time. TBH, Avery was a backup quality player. Spurs didn't need an expert point guard to throw the ball to a prime David Robinson, and later, to a prime Duncan.

While Avery isnt and wasnt Tony Parker, he was better than you think.

Avery was a darn good point guard.

[FromWayDowntown]

The "Avery was better than Tony" argument is ridiculous from the jump, but the funny thing about it is that even a year ago, no reasonable Spurs fan who would even think about suggesting that (which still remains true -- no *reasonable* fan would make that argument). The new generation doesn't really know how bad things were pre-Tony and how frequently the Spurs came up short because they got such poor play from their backcourt in big playoff moments.

Tony may not be great any more, but what he is does not define what he has been.

Tony Parker will breeze into the Hall of Fame, largely because he is unquestionably the best point guard in the history of the Spurs franchise and, like it or not, a substantial reason that 4 of the 5 title banners hang at the AT&T Center.

The trolling passes the time, I guess.

[TampaDude]

While Avery isnt and wasnt Tony Parker, he was better than you think.

Avery was a darn good point guard.

Hey, I'll always have love for AJ. He hit the GW shot to give the Spurs their first NBA Championship ever. :hat

[FkLA]

:lol Nobody is arguing that AJ was more talented. Just that he didn't crumble in crunchtime so much that the back-ups had to bail him out. I mean that's the kind of stupid logic that is being used when comparing Enrique to CP3 (who is clearly better)...so why not use it when comparing him to the Little General?

[daslicer]

:lol Nobody is arguing that AJ was more talented. Just that he didn't crumble in crunchtime so much that the back-ups had to bail him out. I mean that's the kind of stupid logic that is being used when comparing Enrique to CP3 (who is clearly better)...so why not use it when comparing him to the Little General?

The problem is you argument is flawed again considering the Spurs didn't have any good fucking backups back then. Name me a good backup PG the spurs had during the 90's.backing up AJ? Spurs had no choice to play AJ in the 4th even when he was sucking because they had no backups back then. AJ did have an equal or if not more moments where he didn't come through in crunch time. Outside of the '99 run AJ had plenty of choking moments under pressure.

[FkLA]

The problem is you argument is flawed again considering the Spurs didn't have any good fucking backups back then. Name me a good backup PG the spurs had during the 90's.backing up AJ? Spurs had no choice to play AJ in the 4th even when he was sucking because they had no backups back then. AJ did have an equal or if not more moments where he didn't come through in crunch time. Outside of the '99 run AJ had plenty of choking moments under pressure.

Yeah, bc Speedy or a 37 yr old Kerr were amazing back-ups. So was a 22 yr old CoJo . Barry and Paddy were/are more SG than PG. :lol

[daslicer]

Yeah, bc Speedy or a 37 yr old Kerr were amazing back-ups. So was a 22 yr old CoJo . Barry and Paddy were/are more SG than PG. :lol

All of those guys outside of Cojo were solid role players and you know that so quit deflecting and name me some good backup's AJ had to come in and clean his mess when he fucked up?

[apalisoc_9]

:lmao

[timtonymanu]

Yeah, bc Speedy or a 37 yr old Kerr were amazing back-ups. So was a 22 yr old CoJo . Barry and Paddy were/are more SG than PG. :lol

Bones was awesome. Still one of my favorite Spurs role players.

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Brent+Barry+Phoenix+Suns+v+San+Antonio+Spurs+xclGN c2VgLul.jpg

[T Park]

Hey, I'll always have love for AJ. He hit the GW shot to give the Spurs their first NBA Championship ever. :hat

he was a border line all star. Was top 10 in assists. averaged mid double digit points.

[T Park]

:lol Nobody is arguing that AJ was more talented. Just that he didn't crumble in crunchtime so much that the back-ups had to bail him out. I mean that's the kind of stupid logic that is being used when comparing Enrique to CP3 (who is clearly better)...so why not use it when comparing him to the Little General?


This person is literally too stupid to respond to.

Just absolutely fucking stupid.

[Blizzardwizard]

Parker hate thread completely shut down, again. :lol

[SASdynasty!]

Parker hate thread completely shut down, again. :lol
They've painted themselves in quite a corner. It's funny to listen to them try and come up with valid arguments now because they've been making so many of these threads.

[cd98]

While Avery isnt and wasnt Tony Parker, he was better than you think.

Avery was a darn good point guard.

Avery was a good ball handler and leader. He made an effort on defense, but let's be honest, with D Robinson and TD, point guards weren't getting to the rim even if he guarded like Jimmer. His jumpshot is what would have had him stuck on this year's Spur bench.

[ElNono]

If you wanna prop AJ, a better case can be made when he was coaching against Pop. He came up with the scheme to shut TP down and actually make Devin Harris look better than him.

Heck, Harris swindled a max-deal in NJ out of that series, IIRC...

[Sean Cagney]

Avery was a good ball handler and leader. He made an effort on defense, but let's be honest, with D Robinson and TD, point guards weren't getting to the rim even if he guarded like Jimmer. His jumpshot is what would have had him stuck on this year's Spur bench.

His J was bad, some just left him wide open. In 1999 though he seemed to hit that mid range all playoffs when they left him open, finally hit those and helped the team out by making them pay. I don't know what got into him that year in those playoffs but those mid range J's actually started to fall at a good rate if you go back and watch.

[mkurts]

From the responses here you'd think Parker deserves the max for his clutch performances this year.

If these guys ran the FO the team would be stuck in lottery mode for the next twenty years.

[cd98]

His J was bad, some just left him wide open. In 1999 though he seemed to hit that mid range all playoffs when they left him open, finally hit those and helped the team out by making them pay. I don't know what got into him that year in those playoffs but those mid range J's actually started to fall at a good rate if you go back and watch.

I know. He was terrible every year but '99. I don't know that God was a Spur fan because of the cruelty of 2004, 2006, and 2013, but maybe he was an Avery fan bc no question Avery was a fan of God. That year he was Tebowesque.

[Sean Cagney]

I know. He was terrible every year but '99. I don't know that God was a Spur fan because of the cruelty of 2004, 2006, and 2013, but maybe he was an Avery fan bc no question Avery was a fan of God. That year he was Tebowesque.

Speaking of that man you are right, only .4 or 2013 game 6 would happen against the SPURS, nobody else. The Spurs are blessed to win those titles but man how the hell do you lose in that fashion? Makes you think what is next? Man those losses are unheard of but they happen to the Spurs.

We are blessed as fans and I am not bitching but damn those were crazy.

[cd98]

Yes, Spur fan has felt the love and cruelty of the basketball gods. I will say, though, winning in 2014 was one of the greatest sports/redemption stories of all time. I think it made a lot of people that hated the Spurs become Spur fans.

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

:lol Nobody is arguing that AJ was more talented. Just that he didn't crumble in crunchtime so much that the back-ups had to bail him out. I mean that's the kind of stupid logic that is being used when comparing Enrique to CP3 (who is clearly better)...so why not use it when comparing him to the Little General?

Teams used to completely back off of Avery and pack the paint, daring him to shoot from greater than 10 feet. One can only speculate how much more room DRob would have had to operate if the Spurs had a point guard that could have commanded a little more attention from the defense.

[rudwick]

Here are some interesting stats of some Spurs "point guards" (I am including Manu but you can ignore if you want)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=parketo01&p2=johnsav01&p3=moorejo01&p4=silasja01&p5=ginobma01&p6=josepco01#playoffs_advanced::22

[cjw]

What's next, people yearning for VDN or Mario Elie over Danny?

[rudwick]

Here is this year's playoffs only: ( we should have started Cory for defense and brought Patty off the bench...)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2015&p1=millspa02&y2=2015&p2=josepco01&y3=2015&p3=parketo01&p4=&p5=&p6=#playoffs_advanced::none

[koriwhat]

Parkers a bball player, no doubt about it but there's also no doubt that he has sucked for a few seasons now. People need to wake the fuck up!

[barbacoataco]

As many have mentioned here , Avery couldn't hit the wide open mid range jumper, and that was a big reason the mid-90's Spurs never made it to the finals.

I've been watching the Spurs since the 80's and AJ is one of the most overrated Spurs. His number should not be retired. The Spurs were actively trying to trade him, or just cut him, for most of his career. He did play pretty well in 1999 but that was the exception. You can't even compare him to a perennial Allstar like Parker. Avery never made the Allstar team, or finished top 10 MVP like Parker did multiple times.

Remember the 1995 Spurs had A LOT of talent. They lost because of Del Negro and Avery. I always say if you replace 1995 AJ and Del Negro with Parker and ginobili, the
Spurs win the championship multiple times.

[EVAY]

As many have mentioned here , Avery couldn't hit the wide open mid range jumper, and that was a big reason the mid-90's Spurs never made it to the finals.

I've been watching the Spurs since the 80's and AJ is one of the most overrated Spurs. His number should not be retired. The Spurs were actively trying to trade him, or just cut him, for most of his career. He did play pretty well in 1999 but that was the exception. You can't even compare him to a perennial Allstar like Parker. Avery never made the Allstar team, or finished top 10 MVP like Parker did multiple times.

Remember the 1995 Spurs had A LOT of talent. They lost because of Del Negro and Avery. I always say if you replace 1995 AJ and Del Negro with Parker and ginobili, the
Spurs win the championship multiple times.

All excellent points.

Well said.

[SpursPreacher]

Next they will say negele knight was better.

[EVAY]

Arguing what Parker should have done in '03 to close out that series is mindful of 2013's (or even this year's) Kawhi experience. In 2001 Tony was 20-21 years old, less than two full year's experience in the country, much less the league, and was not a clutch performer.

Kawhi, in 2013, was only two years into the league, and was not a clutch performer. Folks like FkLA excuse Kawhi for inexperience but repeatedly crucify Parker for a similar performance at the same age.

But I watched virtually every game that Avery played and he was just horrid. And Avery's "preachiness" so incensed TD that he wouldn't have stayed here if Avery was a coach, or even an intern. Robinson could handle Avery because they were both so religious. Duncan and Pop - not so much. THAT was real team dissension.


Avery should never have had his number retired here.

[Blackjack]

Just reminds me of how great Dave was and how different his legacy would have been had he had a supporting cast to help bear the burden.

Greatful Tim came along when he did. But, damn... Dave had some of the shittiest supporting casts and coaches of any superstar I can remember.

[phxspurfan]

Bones was awesome. Still one of my favorite Spurs role players.

http://www3.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Brent+Barry+Phoenix+Suns+v+San+Antonio+Spurs+xclGN c2VgLul.jpg

The dark years...

[EVAY]

Just reminds me of how great Dave was and how different his legacy would have been had he had a supporting cast to help bear the burden.

Greatful Tim came along when he did. But, damn... Dave had some of the shittiest supporting casts and coaches of any superstar I can remember.

Blame Red McCombs' leadership group. Never really had any interest in basketball - always wanting to use it to get a football team here. Until Holt came along, no one was willing to pay for talent.

[cd98]

Arguing what Parker should have done in '03 to close out that series is mindful of 2013's (or even this year's) Kawhi experience. In 2001 Tony was 20-21 years old, less than two full year's experience in the country, much less the league, and was not a clutch performer.

Kawhi, in 2013, was only two years into the league, and was not a clutch performer. Folks like FkLA excuse Kawhi for inexperience but repeatedly crucify Parker for a similar performance at the same age.

But I watched virtually every game that Avery played and he was just horrid. And Avery's "preachiness" so incensed TD that he wouldn't have stayed here if Avery was a coach, or even an intern. Robinson could handle Avery because they were both so religious. Duncan and Pop - not so much. THAT was real team dissension.


Avery should never have had his number retired here.

i would also add that point guard is the hardest position to learn, and Tony was coming into the league as an 18 year old with no jump shot. He has worked his way to becoming an all star. I love Kawhi's game as well, so I'm not bashing him, but Parker's work ethic and growth during his career was exceptional. It will be interesting to see if Dante Exum can do the same. He's a similar player to Parker in terms of skill set coming into the league.

[FkLA]

i would also add that point guard is the hardest position to learn, and Tony was coming into the league as an 18 year old with no jump shot. He has worked his way to becoming an all star. I love Kawhi's game as well, so I'm not bashing him, but Parker's work ethic and growth during his career was exceptional. It will be interesting to see if Dante Exum can do the same. He's a similar player to Parker in terms of skill set coming into the league.

:lmao

He never developed a consistent 3 PT shot. Even his 'automatic' midrange shot was always in the high 30s/low 40s percentage. Was an average FT shooter with poor courtvision/passing. All things that take skill and repetition. The speed and quickness he was simply blessed with. Hard worker my ass, if he had developed other skills he'd have something to fall back on now that his speed is gone.

[cd98]

:lmao

He never developed a consistent 3 PT shot. Even his 'automatic' midrange shot was always in the high 30s/low 40s percentage. Was an average FT shooter with poor courtvision/passing. All things that take skill and repetition. The speed and quickness he was simply blessed with. Hard worker my ass, if he had developed other skills he'd have something to fall back on now that his speed is gone.

Never said he was a great three point shooter, but he developed an excellent mid range game and combined it with the pick and roll with Tim and it was a weapon. Of course, I'm not going to bother debating with your revisionist history. Your troll-like hate for Parker erodes any of your objectivity and your prism of of negativity jades your reality. Parker was a raw player when he came into the league as an 18 year old with hyper-drive speed and no midrange or ability to finish. He became one of the highest field goal percentage scorers in the league, including bigs. He worked to become a finisher and threat from midrange. True, he never developed the three, but he didn't need to. His ability to get into the paint made him a play maker. He wasn't a traditional point guard with great court vision, but his drive and kick was just as devastating as Chris Paul's court vision.

[Sean Cagney]

Yes, Spur fan has felt the love and cruelty of the basketball gods. I will say, though, winning in 2014 was one of the greatest sports/redemption stories of all time. I think it made a lot of people that hated the Spurs become Spur fans.

It did lol, at bars around here in VA I heard alot of cheers for SA. My friend who did not like them because of me suddenly rooted hard for them two years in a row. They broke up the evil empire and heads loved it. 2014 was special.

[Sean Cagney]

The dark years...

Naw man that was after, he helped win in 05 and 07 here, hardly the dark 09-11 years of shit.

[Gervin44Silas13]

I hated these motherfuckers

Sidney Green

David Greenwood

Paul Pressey

Dwayne Shit the bed tuz (aka the steal of the draft)

Terry Cummings....that shitty reverse lay up he'd do and miss all the fucking time

Greg sutton

Tark what a fucken joke that was!!!!

dale Ellis

Sleepy Floyd

J.R Reid

Corey Alexander

Carl Herrera

Greg anderson

Charles Smith

Monty Williams



what a fucken list!!!!





Just reminds me of how great Dave was and how different his legacy would have been had he had a supporting cast to help bear the burden.

Greatful Tim came along when he did. But, damn... Dave had some of the shittiest supporting casts and coaches of any superstar I can remember.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

Never said he was a great three point shooter, but he developed an excellent mid range game and combined it with the pick and roll with Tim and it was a weapon. Of course, I'm not going to bother debating with your revisionist history. Your troll-like hate for Parker erodes any of your objectivity and your prism of of negativity jades your reality. Parker was a raw player when he came into the league as an 18 year old with hyper-drive speed and no midrange or ability to finish. He became one of the highest field goal percentage scorers in the league, including bigs. He worked to become a finisher and threat from midrange. True, he never developed the three, but he didn't need to. His ability to get into the paint made him a play maker. He wasn't a traditional point guard with great court vision, but his drive and kick was just as devastating as Chris Paul's court vision.

Best point guard this franchise has ever had. I dread the days when we go back to having a PG like Cory Joseph, Jacque Vaughn or George Hill at the helm.

[SASdynasty!]

:lmao

He never developed a consistent 3 PT shot. Even his 'automatic' midrange shot was always in the high 30s/low 40s percentage. Was an average FT shooter with poor courtvision/passing. All things that take skill and repetition. The speed and quickness he was simply blessed with. Hard worker my ass, if he had developed other skills he'd have something to fall back on now that his speed is gone.
Parker's increased his 3P% every year for the past 4 years now. He shot frieking 43% this year, including leading the league until he got injured. What the hell does he have to do, shoot 50% from 3?

[FkLA]

Never said he was a great three point shooter, but he developed an excellent mid range game and combined it with the pick and roll with Tim and it was a weapon. Of course, I'm not going to bother debating with your revisionist history. Your troll-like hate for Parker erodes any of your objectivity and your prism of of negativity jades your reality. Parker was a raw player when he came into the league as an 18 year old with hyper-drive speed and no midrange or ability to finish. He became one of the highest field goal percentage scorers in the league, including bigs. He worked to become a finisher and threat from midrange. True, he never developed the three, but he didn't need to. His ability to get into the paint made him a play maker. He wasn't a traditional point guard with great court vision, but his drive and kick was just as devastating as Chris Paul's court vision.

His drive and kick was reliant on his speed, not skill. The only thing he did was learn the playbook to know where the shooters are at. His midrange was always high 30/llow40%...I wouldn't call that excellent. I also wouldn't call someone who doesn't develop his game 'bc he doesn't need to' a hard worker. A hard worker goes above and beyond and if he had he would've had something to fall back on this year.

Parker's increased his 3P% every year for the past 4 years now. He shot frieking 43% this year, including leading the league until he got injured. What the hell does he have to do, shoot 50% from 3?

You're an imbecile. He made like 40 total threes this year. He had a somewhat high percentage bc he's selective not bc he's actually a good shooter. If he was he'd have attempted more and he wouldn't have shot 0% from 3 and like 10% from midrange in the Clippers series.

[dbreiden83080]

What did AJ average for his career? Like 5 PPG?