Seeded With Tax Cuts, Kansas Harvests the Benefits

[tlongII]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/seeded-with-tax-cuts-kansas-harvests-the-benefits-1431729743

Unemployment has dropped to 4.2% from 5.5% in 2013, and wages and job growth are steadily climbing.

Liberals love to hate Sam Brownback, and for good reason. The Kansas governor threatens a central tenet of liberal orthodoxy: the belief that higher taxes are a price that must be paid for progress.

“If your objective is to grow the economy, would you rather put more money into government, or leave it in the hands of small business?” Mr. Brownback asks during a recent interview in his office at the state capitol. Three years ago Kansas enacted the biggest tax cut of any state, relative to the size of its economy, in recent history. Lawmakers reduced the top rate on the personal income tax to 4.9% from 6.45%. They also eliminated the income tax for small business owners who file as individuals, a broad group that includes sole proprietors, limited liability partnerships and S-corporations.

The governor declared that Kansas was “open for business” in such strong terms that he might as well have donned a sandwich board reading “Come to Kansas / Keep Everything You Earn.” He boasted: “Our new pro-growth tax policy will be like a shot of adrenaline into the heart of the Kansas economy.”

The comment was subsequently picked up by critics who wondered why the Kansas economy wasn’t suddenly leaping ahead at, say, 4%-5% growth annually. When Mr. Brownback ran for re-election last year, national reporters descended on the Sunflower State and quickly made Kansas the national symbol for the alleged depredations of “trickle-down economics.” A sampling of headlines includes: “How Tea Party tax cuts are turning Kansas into a smoking ruin,” L.A. Times, July 9; “Kansas’ Ruinous Tax Cuts,” the New York Times, July 13; and “The Great Kansas Tea Party Disaster,” Rolling Stone, Oct. 23.

Yet voters re-elected Mr. Brownback by a four-point margin. What the news coverage missed was that if Kansas hasn’t exactly catapulted into the front ranks in economic growth and employment, then it has at least moved a long way from the stagnation of recent decades. Consider:

• In March 2013, unemployment in Kansas stood at 5.5%. It has since dropped to 4.2%, tied for 14th lowest in the country.

• From 1998-2012, Kansas ranked 38th in private-sector job growth, according Bureau of Labor Statistics data crunched by the Kansas Policy Institute. In 2013—the first year after the tax reform—the state climbed to 27th place, and in 2014 it moved to 21st, placing it in the top half of states.

• In the second half of 2014, hourly wages in Kansas grew 3.5%, according to BLS data, far faster than the national average of 1.9%.

[boutons_deux]

Kansas is broke.

Trickle down is a lie

Tschlong is dumb

Kansas, as much cowboy-bullshiter wind as TX, is cutting back on wind power as dictated by Kock Bros. KS intented to TAX wind protection,not stimulate it.

How many of the new KS jobs are in wind and solar activities so HATED by the Kock Bros

[tlongII]

You really need to look at the before and after.

Brownback was reelected even though Democrats were widely panning the tax cuts as a miserable failure. At the time, unemployment was much higher, budget deficit much worse, etc. They were touting the state's performance in relation to neighboring states. All those things are no longer true.

It takes a while to undo all the damage done by the previous tax&spend policies. We saw that in the 80s with Reagan's tax cuts - the recession he inherited got worse before it got way better.

What's going on in Kansas is similar. It's already showing signs of economy taking off.

[boutons_deux]

You really need to look at the before and after.

Brownback was reelected even though Democrats were widely panning the tax cuts as a miserable failure. At the time, unemployment was much higher, budget deficit much worse, etc. They were touting the state's performance in relation to neighboring states. All those things are no longer true.

It takes a while to undo all the damage done by the previous tax&spend policies. We saw that in the 80s with Reagan's tax cuts - the recession he inherited got worse before it got way better.

What's going on in Kansas is similar. It's already showing signs of economy taking off.

prove that tax cuts for the KS wealthy caused a single job, not fracking, not drilling, not wind, not solar.

KS schools just cut their school year short for lack of operating funds.

prove the "high" taxes were causing KS' unemployment.

[tlongII]

prove that tax cuts for the KS wealthy caused a single job, not fracking, not drilling, not wind, not solar.

KS schools just cut their school year short for lack of operating funds.

prove the "high" taxes were causing KS' unemployment.

All you have to do is look at the data. It's working.

[boutons_deux]

All you have to do is look at the data. It's working.

prove causality

A precedes B doesn't prove A caused B

WSJ? :lol Murdoch toilet paper with same cred as Murdoch's Fox Liars

btw, did you hear that your hero O'Reilly, a good Catholic boy like so many extreme, authoritarian, bully right wingers, is a wife beater?

[Slutter McGee]

prove that tax cuts for the KS wealthy caused a single job, not fracking, not drilling, not wind, not solar.

KS schools just cut their school year short for lack of operating funds.

prove the "high" taxes were causing KS' unemployment.

You do realize that there is a public sector and a private sector....and they are different? Right?

Slutter McGee

[boutons_deux]

You do realize that there is a public sector and a private sector....and they are different? Right?

Slutter McGee

to finance the wealth of the wealthy, KS cut public spending on schools.

[Slutter McGee]

to finance the wealth of the wealthy, KS cut public spending on schools.

Boutons, if I sign you up for an Economics course and pay for it, would you be willing to at least attempt to use empirical data and rational thought?

Slutter McGee

[tlongII]

prove causality

A precedes B doesn't prove A caused B

WSJ? :lol Murdoch toilet paper with same cred as Murdoch's Fox Liars

btw, did you hear that your hero O'Reilly, a good Catholic boy like so many extreme, authoritarian, bully right wingers, is a wife beater?

I have not heard that. Did you find that in an article in thinkprogress.org?

[boutons_deux]

"to finance the wealth of the wealthy, KS cut public spending on schools."

[tlongII]

An article posted on ThinkProgress on October 5, 2010, authored by Lee Fang, attracted attention and some controversy. The article alleged that the United States Chamber of Commerce funded political attack campaigns from its general fund, which solicits funds from foreign sources.[13] The story was repeated by the Huffington Post and the progressive activist group MoveOn.org asked the DoJ to launch a criminal investigation of the Chamber's funding.[14]

The non-partisan fact-checking website FactCheck.org analyzed the claim that "foreign corporations are 'stealing our democracy' with secret, illegal contributions funneled through the U.S. Chamber of Commerce," noting that ThinkProgress made the initial allegations.[15] FactCheck concluded that "It’s a claim with little basis in fact."[15] Others questioned the claims made in the article as well. Eric Lichtblau of The New York Times pointed out that the article "provided no evidence that the money generated overseas had been used in United States campaigns."[16]

[sickdsm]

I have not heard that. Did you find that in an article in thinkprogress.org?

Lolz

[boutons_deux]

I have not heard that. Did you find that in an article in thinkprogress.org?

it's all over now: search "oreilly wife beater", came in custody battle.

[tlongII]

Looks like a bunch of slander by liberal websites with little basis in facts.

[boutons_deux]

Looks like a bunch of slander by liberal websites with little basis in facts.

the O'Reilly kids claimed he choked, beat her.

[tlongII]

the O'Reilly kids claimed he choked, beat her.

One kid. His daughter would have been 10 at the time. Allegedly.

[ElNono]

Kansas's Failed Experiment

The state's budget problems didn't go away after Governor Sam Brownback's reelection—they got worse. Will the lesson of tax-cuts-gone-awry give Republican candidates pause in 2016?


Now, Kansas's red ink has left the governor red- faced. Brownback is asking Republican state lawmakers to slow the income tax cuts over the next few years, raise taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, overhaul school funding, and divert money from the state's highway fund in order to balance the budget. It's not as if he's abandoning his conservative economic philosophy—he still wants to replace the state's income tax entirely with consumption taxes over time.


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/kansass-failed-experiment/389874/

[Nbadan]

More low paying jobs, bigger Kansas tax deficits....why did Tlong leave that off his OP? hmmmm

Kansas Gov. Brownback's Budget Shortfall Solution: Spending Cuts!
http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/image/upload/c_fill,fl_keep_iptc,g_faces,h_365,w_652/pwuf8b06fdifubpsndcw.jpg

He's not out to balance the Budget. He's out simply to destroy their Govt.

Kansans gave Brownback a 4 point win.


Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback (R) on Tuesday unveiled his plan to solve his state's serious financial woes: dramatic budget cuts to state agencies by 4 percent and move $201 million from specific funds to Kansas's general funds.

Those actions, according to the Kansas City Star, will open up $280 million Kansas can use to fill its budget deficit, which analysts projected to be about $279 million by the end of June 2015.

According to Reuters, $201.5 million would be taken from other funds and moved to the general fund and $78.5 million will be saved by cutting as much as $40.7 million from Kansas state contributions to the retirement system for public employees.

Brownback, before the 2014 election, was believed to be uniquely vulnerable (even in deep red Kansas) because of his decision to pass and implement steep tax cuts.

[tlongII]

http://news.investors.com/ibd-edito...creating-machine-shows-that-tax-cuts-work.htm

Jobs are really showing up on the Kansas side of Kansas City. Because tax rates are lower in Kansas than in Missouri, the Kansas side of the metro area produced twice as many jobs as the Missouri side from 2012 to 2014.

The Kansas Policy Institute ran the numbers and found that "over the last two years — post-tax reform — private-sector jobs increased by 5.6% on the Kansas side of the metro and only 2.2% on the Missouri side." KPI president Dave Trabert notes: "You can observe firsthand businesses that have moved across the state border into Kansas in the Kansas City area."

Wages are also growing in Kansas. Before the tax cut, workers on KC's Kansas side earned 40 cents an hour more than Missouri workers. Now the gap is $3.

[boutons_deux]

The Kansas Policy Institute


TLong, you're gullible stupid fuckoff, sucking down VRWC lies as if it were God's own word! :lol

:lol

The Kansas Policy Institute (KPI) is a free-market American think tank (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_tank) based in Wichita, Kansas (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wichita,_Kansas).[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_Policy_Institute#cite_note-4) A member of the State Policy Network (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Policy_Network),

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_Policy_Institute (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_Policy_Institute)

State Policy History

The State Policy Network was founded in 1992 by Thomas A. Roe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_A._Roe),[6] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Policy_Network#cite_note-AboutSPN-6) a South Carolina (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Carolina) businessman who was a member of the board of trustees of the Heritage Foundation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heritage_Foundation).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Policy_Network

All are VRWC STINK TANKS lying to you, simpleton :lol

Prove there's a direct causation between KS taxes causing unemployment and lower-taxes-for-the-wealthy+BigCorp causing rising employment, you ain't done it, yet. :lol

trickle down LIES! :lol

"ran the numbers" :lol

[boutons_deux]

Repug/VRWC War On The Poor

Kansas Could Lose Millions for Limiting Welfare Recipients to $25 at ATMs

A first-of-its-kind provision that prevents welfare recipients in Kansas from withdrawing more than $25 a day from an ATM might violate federal law, and could jeopardize the state's federal funding if not amended.

The Social Security Act requires states to ensure that recipients of Temporary Assistance for Needy Families, or TANF, "have adequate access to their cash assistance" and can withdraw money "with minimal fees or charges."

At stake is about $102 million in TANF block grant funds that Kansas receives every year from the federal government.

The state's controversial ATM limit was added as an amendment to a welfare overhaul bill signed in April by Gov. Sam Brownback, a Republican. The new law also bars welfare recipients from spending their benefit money at certain places, including movie theaters, massage parlors, cruise ships and swimming pools. It also sets stricter eligibility requirements and shortened the amount of time people can receive assistance.

http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/30856-kansas-could-lose-millions-for-limiting-welfare-recipients-to-25-at-atms

[RandomGuy]

All you have to do is look at the data. It's working.

http://members.optushome.com.au/heffo52/lastweek.jpg



Republican policy failure #1: supply side economics fails (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=244527)

Not really. Prepare to be pwned.

[101A]

to finance the wealth of the wealthy, KS cut public spending on schools.


And did this resulted in a poorer education, directly, to how many children?

Please show causality.

[RandomGuy]

What the news coverage missed was that if Kansas hasn’t exactly catapulted into the front ranks in economic growth and employment, then it has at least moved a long way from the stagnation of recent decades. Consider:

• In March 2013, unemployment in Kansas stood at 5.5%. It has since dropped to 4.2%, tied for 14th lowest in the country.

• From 1998-2012, Kansas ranked 38th in private-sector job growth, according Bureau of Labor Statistics data crunched by the Kansas Policy Institute. In 2013—the first year after the tax reform—the state climbed to 27th place, and in 2014 it moved to 21st, placing it in the top half of states.

• In the second half of 2014, hourly wages in Kansas grew 3.5%, according to BLS data, far faster than the national average of 1.9%.

Ah the joys of cherry picking, and leaving out the important bits of information needed to really understand things. Great if you want mindless Koolaid for the faithful to drink, not so much if you are looking for decent public policy.

1-Tax cuts don't happen in a vacuum.


Without solid data as to what would have happened without the tax cuts, you can't really say that the tax cuts caused the benefits or harm. It is a bit like trying to say "it rained after I washed my car, so therefore rain is caused by me washing my car".

2-Beware what you aren't told


Missing in the blurb above, is what happened prior to the "second half of 2014". If the tax cuts and cuts in services made wages plummet in the state faster than the national average, then when the economy finally bounced back, of course the rate would be faster. 3.5% growth on $10 is less money than, say, 1.9% of $50.

[boutons_deux]

And did this resulted in a poorer education, directly, to how many children?

Please show causality.

fewer teachers, fewer teaching resources, bigger class sizes (proven to reduce teaching efficacy), and KS schools closed early for the year due to lack of funds, ALL PROVEN to make students learn more and better. LOL

[RandomGuy]

S&P downgrades Kansas bond rating (http://www.kansas.com/news/article1158214.html)

While the general public and suckers might be taken in by Murdoch's propaganda, the people who do the cold, hard analysis for the financial system look a bit deeper. They didn't like what they found.

What hasn't happened yet, is the growth isn't really keeping pace with the cuts in services. They keep wishing for their supply-side fantasy to come true.

The amount of debt taken on and reserves that the Republicans in charge of Kansas have had to draw down has been considerable.

Revised Forecast Predicts Deeper Hole for Kansas (http://www.kansasbudget.com/2015/05/revised-forecast-predicts-deeper-hole.html)


1. Revenue has fallen sharply, with no rebound in sight. The 2012 and 2013 tax cuts led to a $688 million drop (10.8 percent) in overall revenue in FY 2014, the first full fiscal year in which the tax cuts were in effect.

The tax cuts did not produce anything magical. Revenue did not replenish itself. The economy did not grow any faster than normal. Rather, the new estimate predicts a stagnant revenue stream of about $5.7 billion through FY 2017.



2. The revised revenue estimate may not be low enough yet. Corporate income tax receipts, sales tax receipts, and severance tax receipts underperformed expectations in the first nine months of FY 2015. So, the estimators revised the forecast for those revenue sources downward.

However, individual income tax receipts have trailed last year’s low pace, but the estimators made no change to their previous prediction that income tax receipts would grow slightly in FY 2015. During April, May, and June, income tax receipts must be $147 million higher than that same period last year in order to meet the estimate. That may happen — but it may be too optimistic.

Watch closely, because Kansas has very little flexibility left to absorb a revenue shortfall in the last three months of FY 2015.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XXInvwmeqcY/VUYzPmv6U6I/AAAAAAAAAX8/uHAZTXlC_oI/s1600/tax-receipts.png

[RandomGuy]

And did this resulted in a poorer education, directly, to how many children?

Please show causality.

Shawnee Heights USD 450, five other school districts say they will close early
Superintendents cite cuts to current-year budgets


At least six school districts plan on closing early this May because of budget concerns.

Concordia Unified School District 333, Twin Valley USD 240, Smoky Valley USD 400, Haven USD 312, Skyline USD 438 and Shawnee Heights USD 450 have all shortened their calendars, according to superintendents, school board minutes and public announcements on the districts’ websites.

“We felt like we could afford to do that just to get through the current year,” USD 450 superintendent Martin Stessman said, adding that he doesn’t want the change to be permanent.

http://cjonline.com/news/2015-04-20/shawnee-heights-usd-450-five-other-school-districts-say-they-will-close-early


That is it for starters.

The Governor has cut in an attempt to close the budget hole, and will be forced to cut even more.

You can't sustain a growing populations educational needs with a shrinking budget without something giving.

Easy enough to follow up the slow motion dumbassery of the tax cuts. Self inflicted wound, IMO. I am glad that the people who think this is a good, workable idea have a laboratory to carry out their hairbrained schemes, but more than a little sad to see kids bear the brunt of their elders stupidity. But that is just my opinion. You asked for facts, that is the start of it.

There will be more budget cuts and teacher layoffs, statewide, by the analysis I have read. Pretty unavoidable given the hole they put themselves in.

[RandomGuy]

prove causality

A precedes B doesn't prove A caused B

WSJ? :lol Murdoch toilet paper with same cred as Murdoch's Fox Liars

btw, did you hear that your hero O'Reilly, a good Catholic boy like so many extreme, authoritarian, bully right wingers, is a wife beater?


Analysts from the Legislative Research Department and Department of Revenue told legislators Thursday that it’s difficult to link the exemption directly to new jobs.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/blog/morning_call/2015/05/kansas-budget-crisis-has-some-legislators.html

Keep asking that question. He will not be able to answer it any better than their own eggheads can.

[RandomGuy]

Crap. I could dissect this all day, but lunch is over. Back to work.

[RandomGuy]

Kansas's Failed Experiment

The state's budget problems didn't go away after Governor Sam Brownback's reelection—they got worse. Will the lesson of tax-cuts-gone-awry give Republican candidates pause in 2016?


Now, Kansas's red ink has left the governor red- faced. Brownback is asking Republican state lawmakers to slow the income tax cuts over the next few years, raise taxes on cigarettes and alcohol, overhaul school funding, and divert money from the state's highway fund in order to balance the budget. It's not as if he's abandoning his conservative economic philosophy—he still wants to replace the state's income tax entirely with consumption taxes over time.


http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/kansass-failed-experiment/389874/

Stealing money from roads and transportation is easy to do. Roads don't have lobbyists. (toll roads aside)

Not really workable in the long run. But then, more than a few GOP policies fall into that category. Just don't ask them about evolution.

[ElNono]

The problem with Kansas isn't the tax cuts, it's the fact that they didn't match them with spending cuts. Now they have a huge budget hole that they don't know how to patch and the long term outlook is deficit spending. That's because the economy didn't grow anywhere near what they thought it would, and revenue shortfalls are the order of the day. In that sense, it was a failure.

This is an ongoing issue with GOP policy, the talk is always about spending cuts, but the walk is very different.

[tlongII]

Okay Random Guy...it's your turn. I will show you some information about the Reagan years that most liberals conveniently ignore. It absolutely demonstrates the effectiveness of supply side economics.

[tlongII]

http://www.sportstwo.com/attachments/upload_2015-5-18_17-14-16-png.5192/

[tlongII]

http://www.sportstwo.com/attachments/upload_2015-5-18_17-24-36-png.5193/

http://www.sportstwo.com/attachments/upload_2015-5-18_17-25-15-png.5194/

[101A]

Shawnee Heights USD 450, five other school districts say they will close early
Superintendents cite cuts to current-year budgets



http://cjonline.com/news/2015-04-20/shawnee-heights-usd-450-five-other-school-districts-say-they-will-close-early


That is it for starters.

The Governor has cut in an attempt to close the budget hole, and will be forced to cut even more.

You can't sustain a growing populations educational needs with a shrinking budget without something giving.

Easy enough to follow up the slow motion dumbassery of the tax cuts. Self inflicted wound, IMO. I am glad that the people who think this is a good, workable idea have a laboratory to carry out their hairbrained schemes, but more than a little sad to see kids bear the brunt of their elders stupidity. But that is just my opinion. You asked for facts, that is the start of it.

There will be more budget cuts and teacher layoffs, statewide, by the analysis I have read. Pretty unavoidable given the hole they put themselves in.

If spending is so important, and CUTS in spending directly result in poorer results, why is it that, as a country, education spending increases have outpaced inflation for a while now, yet test scores are falling? Causality should necessarily go both ways?

http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/pic_corner_080713_murdock.png

[ElNono]

Okay Random Guy...it's your turn. I will show you some information about the Reagan years that most liberals conveniently ignore. It absolutely demonstrates the effectiveness of supply side economics.

Whatever you posted isn't showing, but you are aware that Reagan increased the deficit by almost $2 trillion during his tenure, raised taxes, and did the biggest illegal alien amnesty this country has ever seen?

I don't get why conservatives keep bringing up zombie Ronnie. He wouldn't get past the GOP primaries in this day and age if he were to campaign on his presidential record.

[tlongII]

ECONOMY BEFORE REAGAN
When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than Obama faced in 2009:
•Three worsening recessions starting in 1969 were about to culminate in the worst of all in 1981-1982.
•Unemployment soaring into double digits at a peak of 10.8%.
•Roaring double-digit inflation, with the CPI at 11.3% in 1979 and 13.5% in 1980 (25% in two years).
•Double digit interest rates, with the prime rate peaking at 21.5% in 1980.
•The poverty rate started increasing in 1978, eventually climbing by 33%, from 11.4% to 15.2%.
•A fall in real median family income that began in 1978 snowballed to a decline of almost 10% by 1982.
•From 1968 to 1982, the Dow Jones industrial average lost 70% of its real value, reflecting an overall collapse of stocks.

REAGAN’S ECONOMIC SUCCESS
Reagan conservative policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history:
•20 million new jobs were created.
•Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.
•The top income tax rate was cut from 70% to 28%.
•The Reagan Recovery took off once the tax rate cuts were fully phased in.
•Total federal spending declined to 21.2% of GDP in 1989 (even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War.)
•Eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%.
•Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989 (meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just 7 years.)
•The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak.
•The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990 (a larger increase than in any previous decade.)
•The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990 (when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it.)
•During this 7-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third (equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany to the U.S. economy.)
•In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years.
•The inflation from 1980 (in the Carter era) was reduced from 13.5% to 3.2% by 1983.
(The contractionary, tight-money policies needed to kill this inflation inexorably created the steep recession of 1981 to 1982, which is why Reagan did not suffer politically catastrophic blame for that recession.)
•The Reagan Recovery kicked off a historic 25-year economic boom (with short recessions in 1990 and 2001.)
•The period from 1982 to 2007 is the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet. In 1980, the net worth–assets minus liabilities–of all U.S. households and business was $25 trillion in today’s dollars. By 2007, net worth was just shy of $57 trillion. Adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America in the 25-year boom than in the previous two hundred years.
•Economic growth averaged 7.1% over the first 7 quarters.

[ElNono]

It's also apple and oranges. Ronnie could use the government credit card at will, since the federal government can print as much as it wants.

State governments don't have that luxury.

[ElNono]

ECONOMY BEFORE REAGAN
When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than Obama faced in 2009:
•Three worsening recessions starting in 1969 were about to culminate in the worst of all in 1981-1982.
•Unemployment soaring into double digits at a peak of 10.8%.
•Roaring double-digit inflation, with the CPI at 11.3% in 1979 and 13.5% in 1980 (25% in two years).
•Double digit interest rates, with the prime rate peaking at 21.5% in 1980.
•The poverty rate started increasing in 1978, eventually climbing by 33%, from 11.4% to 15.2%.
•A fall in real median family income that began in 1978 snowballed to a decline of almost 10% by 1982.
•From 1968 to 1982, the Dow Jones industrial average lost 70% of its real value, reflecting an overall collapse of stocks.

REAGAN’S ECONOMIC SUCCESS
Reagan conservative policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history:
•20 million new jobs were created.
•Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.
•The top income tax rate was cut from 70% to 28%.
•The Reagan Recovery took off once the tax rate cuts were fully phased in.
•Total federal spending declined to 21.2% of GDP in 1989 (even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War.)
•Eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%.
•Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989 (meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just 7 years.)
•The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak.
•The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990 (a larger increase than in any previous decade.)
•The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990 (when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it.)
•During this 7-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third (equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany to the U.S. economy.)
•In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years.
•The inflation from 1980 (in the Carter era) was reduced from 13.5% to 3.2% by 1983.
(The contractionary, tight-money policies needed to kill this inflation inexorably created the steep recession of 1981 to 1982, which is why Reagan did not suffer politically catastrophic blame for that recession.)
•The Reagan Recovery kicked off a historic 25-year economic boom (with short recessions in 1990 and 2001.)
•The period from 1982 to 2007 is the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet. In 1980, the net worth–assets minus liabilities–of all U.S. households and business was $25 trillion in today’s dollars. By 2007, net worth was just shy of $57 trillion. Adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America in the 25-year boom than in the previous two hundred years.
•Economic growth averaged 7.1% over the first 7 quarters.

Did Art Laffer write that?

[tlongII]

Whatever you posted isn't showing, but you are aware that Reagan increased the deficit by almost $2 trillion during his tenure, raised taxes, and did the biggest illegal alien amnesty this country has ever seen?

I don't get why conservatives keep bringing up zombie Ronnie. He wouldn't get past the GOP primaries in this day and age if he were to campaign on his presidential record.

That's odd, because I can see it.

[ElNono]

That's odd, because I can see it.

These won't load:


http://www.sportstwo.com/attachments/upload_2015-5-18_17-14-16-png.5192/


http://www.sportstwo.com/attachments/upload_2015-5-18_17-24-36-png.5193/

http://www.sportstwo.com/attachments/upload_2015-5-18_17-25-15-png.5194/

Trying to load the image says you must be logged in to view them. You probably need to reupload them somewhere else instead of hot linking.

[tlongII]

Did Art Laffer write that?

No, but Laffer is a very intelligent economist.

[ElNono]

No, but Laffer is a very intelligent economist.

I'm pretty sure the whole "25 year boom" thing comes from The End of Prosperity...

[ElNono]

yup... at the very bottom...

https://books.google.com/books?id=EU5gY-JY-mwC&pg=PA88&lpg=PA88

[tlongII]

These won't load:





Trying to load the image says you must be logged in to view them. You probably need to reupload them somewhere else instead of hot linking.

Oh, okay. I'll get to it when I can.

[tlongII]

Damn... I can't get to photobucket for some reason...

[boutons_deux]

If spending is so important, and CUTS in spending directly result in poorer results, why is it that, as a country, education spending increases have outpaced inflation for a while now, yet test scores are falling? Causality should necessarily go both ways?

http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/pic_corner_080713_murdock.png

... needs a breakdown, also per year, into the components of "total cost".

[ElNono]

I don't have a problem with Laffer, but we live in a different world today. Reagan's Social Security reform that jacked up payroll taxes and the "base broadening" tax hikes would put him firmly in "back stabbing RINO" territory, not to mention his deficit spending or amnesty. They also rode the fact that they received a country largely without much deficit at all (2% of GDP, currently at 9%).

One thing to note about Reagan though, is that he was well aware of the damage his tax cuts did to revenues, and he took responsibility for it. Once the deficit hit 6% of GDP, he jacked up those taxes above to build back the revenue stream his income taxes lost.

But most importantly, as I referenced earlier, you can't compare to a state government, since a state government doesn't control the money supply. This is very basic.

There's no magic here, Kansas is going to have to start cutting spending, jack up taxes or roll back some of the tax cuts. Or a combination of those.

[tlongII]

Kansas certainly needs to cut spending.

[RandomGuy]

The problem with Kansas isn't the tax cuts, it's the fact that they didn't match them with spending cuts. Now they have a huge budget hole that they don't know how to patch and the long term outlook is deficit spending. That's because the economy didn't grow anywhere near what they thought it would, and revenue shortfalls are the order of the day. In that sense, it was a failure.

This is an ongoing issue with GOP policy, the talk is always about spending cuts, but the walk is very different.

Pretty much.

The problem is the tax cuts. They didn't do what they were advertised to do.

[RandomGuy]

Okay Random Guy...it's your turn. I will show you some information about the Reagan years that most liberals conveniently ignore. It absolutely demonstrates the effectiveness of supply side economics.

Giving up on Kansas so soon? I would run away from the OP too, were I dumb enough to have drank that Koolaid.

If you think you have got something better, by all means.

[RandomGuy]

http://www.sportstwo.com/attachments/upload_2015-5-18_17-14-16-png.5192/

Can't see it.

I would point out that the server refuses connections if you aren't logged in.

When I paste the URL into a browswer I get this:


You must be logged-in to do that.

[RandomGuy]

No, but Laffer is a very intelligent economist.

Laffer is.

The people who try to translate the Curve into public policy... not so much.

[RandomGuy]

Kansas certainly needs to cut spending.

No, it doesn't.

[tlongII]

Pretty much.

The problem is the tax cuts. They didn't do what they were advertised to do.

How so? The objective was to grow the economy. They did that.

[RandomGuy]

ECONOMY BEFORE REAGAN
When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than Obama faced in 2009:
•Three worsening recessions starting in 1969 were about to culminate in the worst of all in 1981-1982.
•Unemployment soaring into double digits at a peak of 10.8%.
•Roaring double-digit inflation, with the CPI at 11.3% in 1979 and 13.5% in 1980 (25% in two years).
•Double digit interest rates, with the prime rate peaking at 21.5% in 1980.
•The poverty rate started increasing in 1978, eventually climbing by 33%, from 11.4% to 15.2%.
•A fall in real median family income that began in 1978 snowballed to a decline of almost 10% by 1982.
•From 1968 to 1982, the Dow Jones industrial average lost 70% of its real value, reflecting an overall collapse of stocks.

REAGAN’S ECONOMIC SUCCESS
Reagan conservative policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history:
•20 million new jobs were created.
•Unemployment fell to 5.3% by 1989.
•The top income tax rate was cut from 70% to 28%.
•The Reagan Recovery took off once the tax rate cuts were fully phased in.
•Total federal spending declined to 21.2% of GDP in 1989 (even with the Reagan defense buildup, which won the Cold War.)
•Eliminated price controls on oil and natural gas. Production soared, and aided by a strong dollar the price of oil declined by more than 50%.
•Real per-capita disposable income increased by 18% from 1982 to 1989 (meaning the American standard of living increased by almost 20% in just 7 years.)
•The poverty rate declined every year from 1984 to 1989, dropping by one-sixth from its peak.
•The stock market more than tripled in value from 1980 to 1990 (a larger increase than in any previous decade.)
•The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990 (when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it.)
•During this 7-year recovery, the economy grew by almost one-third (equivalent of adding the entire economy of West Germany to the U.S. economy.)
•In 1984 alone real economic growth boomed by 6.8%, the highest in 50 years.
•The inflation from 1980 (in the Carter era) was reduced from 13.5% to 3.2% by 1983.
(The contractionary, tight-money policies needed to kill this inflation inexorably created the steep recession of 1981 to 1982, which is why Reagan did not suffer politically catastrophic blame for that recession.)
•The Reagan Recovery kicked off a historic 25-year economic boom (with short recessions in 1990 and 2001.)
•The period from 1982 to 2007 is the greatest period of wealth creation in the history of the planet. In 1980, the net worth–assets minus liabilities–of all U.S. households and business was $25 trillion in today’s dollars. By 2007, net worth was just shy of $57 trillion. Adjusting for inflation, more wealth was created in America in the 25-year boom than in the previous two hundred years.
•Economic growth averaged 7.1% over the first 7 quarters.

https://voxrationalis.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/more-reagan-cherry-picking-by-peter-ferrara/

“
”Peter Ferrara has been revising Reagan’s economic history for a long time; perhaps he started when he worked in Reagan’s Office of Policy Development. That administration did very well selling its prescriptions back then. But I don’t trust sales people.

Ferrara’s May 5 piece titled “Reaganomics Vs. Obamanomics: Facts And Figures” is another example of partial and misleading data patched together to create an apparently convincing argument that Reagan’s policies were the best thing since aspirin. Let’s look closer.

“When President Reagan entered office in 1981, he faced actually much worse economic problems than President Obama faced in 2009.” Really? Much worse?

“Three worsening recessions starting in 1969 were about to culminate in the worst of all in 1981-1982, with unemployment soaring into double digits at a peak of 10.8%.”

Unemployment didn’t peak until Reagan had been in office 22 months. If Ferrara does not assign to Reagan responsibility for rising unemployment nearly two years into his presidency, shouldn’t he give Obama the same treatment? Does Ferrara give Obama a pass on everything that happened during his first two years in office?

At the same time America suffered roaring double-digit inflation, with the CPI registering at 11.3% in 1979 and 13.5% in 1980 (25% in two years). ”

Here Ferrara has a point. The damage to an economy of persistent and unpredictable inflation cannot be understated, and this fact alone made the 1981 economy awful. Unpredictable inflation is pernicious, infecting every economic decision that has a time element.

EXCEPT: inflation was not broken “at the same time” as the recovery. Breaking inflation was necessary before the recovery could take hold. This is why there’s a gap between the 1980 and the 1981 recessions; the Fed eased off on the contractionary monetary policy too early.

Ferrara’s using inflation data from before Reagan was president and unemployment data from two years later. When unemployment peaked, inflation was already down to 4.5%. Just wait – I bet Ferrara tries to give Reagan credit for falling inflation during 1981 while blaming rising unemployment on Reagan’s predecessors.

“The poverty rate started increasing in 1978, eventually climbing by an astounding 33%, from 11.4% to 15.2%. “

That peak was in 1983, Reagan’s 3rd year in office. But this discussion is about how bad the economy was when Reagan entered office, compared to Obama. The poverty rate was 13% in 1980. In 2008, it was 13.2%.

“A fall in real median family income that began in 1978 snowballed to a decline of almost 10% by 1982. “

Not sure where Ferrara’s getting this data, but here’s what I found in Census Bureau data: real median family income peaked in 1979, then in Reagan’s election year declined 3.4%, then continued to decline through Reagan’s first two years in office, for a total decline was 7.3%. Compare with Obama: it peaked in 2007, then declined 3.4% in Obama’s election year. It will be interesting to see what happened in the first two years of Obama’s presidency.

“…total federal spending declined from a high of 23.5% of GDP in 1983 to 21.3% in 1988 and 21.2% in 1989. That’s a real reduction in the size of government relative to the economy of 10%.

Ferrera doesn’t mention that 1983 marked the highest spending as a percentage of GDP since World War II, nearly 10% higher than any year prior to Reagan. He also doesn’t point out that this figure is always high during recessions. Kind of like how it was 25% in 2009 because of the financial crisis and recession. This isn’t a bad thing! This shows that our government has sufficient financial flexibility to step into the economy when needed.

“These economic policies amounted to the most successful economic experiment in world history. The Reagan recovery started in official records in November 1982, and lasted 92 months without a recession until July 1990, when the tax increases of the 1990 budget deal killed it.”

Here Ferrara’s claim is that the prospect of a tax increase caused a recession to begin. The law wasn’t enacted until November 1990, four months after the recession began. Interestingly, the recession ended four months after the law was signed; why doesn’t Ferrara connect the end of the recession to the tax increase?

“The shocking rise in inflation during the Nixon and Carter years was reversed.”

Yes – by Carter’s Fed Chairman.

“It was cut in half again for 1983, to 3.2%, never to be heard from again until recently.”

Until recently? Let’s see, the latest inflation data is… ah yes, April – 3.13% year-over-year. Ferrara here implies that 3.2% was low, but 3.13% is high.

“The contractionary, tight-money policies needed to kill this inflation inexorably created the steep recession of 1981 to 1982, which is why Reagan did not suffer politically catastrophic blame for that recession.”

Nonsense. All presidents’ approval ratings ride the economy. Reagan’s dipped below 40% during that recession, but rose with the growing economy to the high 50s by the 1984 election.

“…in 2013 the top two income tax rates will rise by nearly 20%.”

It’s worth noting another way of describing the same thing: the top rate would increase by 5.6%. Ferrara’s method of describing tax increases emphasizes their size in relation to the prior tax level, but says nothing about the actual tax rates involved. A tax from 1% to 2% is a 100% increase, but is not nearly as onerous as an increase from 10% to 15%.

This is partly because the Republicans keep pushing the balanced budget as a critical priority during a time of economic hardship. Economists of all stripes agree that this is not a prescription for growing thPresident Obama proposes still more tax increases.

Instead of coming into office with spending cuts, President Obama’s first act was a nearly $1 trillion stimulus bill.

Which is not altogether unlike Reagan’s expansion of the federal budget while cutting tax revenue.

“…his 2012 budget proposes to increase federal spending by another 57% by 2021.”

Let’s see, and between Reagan’s first budget for 1982 and last for 1989, spending increased by 53%. And that was without the projected increases in the elderly population and health care costs that continue to drive spending necessarily higher.

“His monetary policy is just the opposite as well. Instead of restraining the money supply to match money demand for a stable dollar, slaying an historic inflation, we have QE1 and QE2 and a steadily collapsing dollar, arguably creating a historic reflation.”

What “historic inflation”? Where exactly is this inflation that Ferrara says should have been “slain”? Inflation for Obama’s first two years was just over 2% annually. Regarding Ferrara’s prescription of “restraining the money supply to match money demand,” perhaps he’s never read Friedman’s discussion of the causes of the Great Depression.

I’d wager Bernanke knows a touch more about it than does Ferrara, and his actions have been proven right by two-and-a-half years of fairly stable prices — could the unprecedented expansion of the Fed balance sheet have happened without significant inflation if Ferrara was right and Bernanke wrong?

And instead of deregulation we have across-the-board re-regulation, from health care to finance to energy, and elsewhere. While Reagan used to say that his energy policy was to “unleash the private sector,” Obama’s energy policy can be described as precisely to leash the private sector in service to Obama’s central planning “green energy” dictates.

Now Ferrara’s veered off into delusional ramblings. Health care – Ferrara would like readers to forget what’s happened to health care costs over the last decade, and to think that the free market has worked great in that unique industry. Finance – does Ferrara think that appropriate regulations couldn’t have had an impact in preventing the 2008 financial meltdown? Energy – weeks before the Macondo well accident, Obama was talking about opening new areas of the outer continental shelf to drilling. Once the disaster in the gulf started, that became a political impossibility. A year later, with the images of oil streaming out of the blowout preventer fading, Obama is once again talking about increasing domestic production.

“Based on the historic precedents America should be enjoying the second year of a roaring economic recovery by now, especially since, historically, the worse the downturn, the stronger the recovery. ”

So, which of the other post-WWII recessions was caused by a near-complete collapse credit markets? None? Oh.

“Yet while in the Reagan recovery the economy soared past the previous GDP peak after six months, in the Obama recovery that didn’t happen for three years. ”

Often, the recessions of 1980 and 1981-2 are counted together, since the space between them was so short and the root cause (Volcker’s Fed wringing inflation out of the economy) was the same. The economy was essentially stagnant between the beginning of 1980 and the end of 1982. The recent peak was in Q3 of 2007, and as in the early 1980s, the economy regained that peak level of real GDP three years later, in Q3 of 2010.

But this is all jibber-jabber. The two recessions are so fundamentally different that comparing them is a waste of time. Unless one’s trying to score political points and rewrite history.

“Last year the Census Bureau reported that the total number of Americans in poverty was the highest in the 51 years that Census has been recording the data.”

In his zeal to make an argument, here Ferrara serious errs. Why do you suppose he uses the TOTAL number in poverty, rather than the PERCENT in poverty? Because the population is more than 30% higher in 2009 (year of the latest poverty data) than in 1983. Compare the poverty rates: 2009 – 11.1%, 1983 – 12.3%. It took three years of the “Reagan recovery” for poverty to fall to the peak level of 2009.

“Moreover, the Reagan recovery was achieved while taming a historic inflation…”

No. The “Reagan recovery” was achieved following the taming of a historic inflation. The recession didn’t end until the Fed was convinced inflation was finished and ended its contractionary action.

“…the less-than-half-hearted Obama recovery seems to be recreating inflation, with the latest Producer Price Index data showing double-digit inflation again, and the latest CPI growing already half as much.”

Similar price increases occurred in mid-2008, when commodities and commodities rose dramatically, with oil topping off at $147/bbl. Consumer inflation did not follow. As Ferrara knows, this is why core CPI is used by forecasters for to predict future inflation. Is Ferrara scaremongering or ignorant?

Ferrara’s truly adept at being selective with data that support his worldview while excluding data that would refute it. I doubt I’ll be able to keep up this debunking for long, since Ferrara’s so prolific. But it’ll be fun while it lasts.

Yawn.

[tlongII]

No, it doesn't.

Yes it does. They need to cut $400 M in spending.

[RandomGuy]

How so? The objective was to grow the economy. They did that.

If the objective is to grow the economy, you can also break a lot of windows, and build a lot of bridges to nowhere.

In this case, the economic growth is even debatable.

What matters is if the policy has a benefit that is worth the cost. The massive budget hole, and cutbacks to education (human capital investment) and infrastructure required to pay for it...

Long term, this will shrink the Kansas economy, much more than a continuing investment in people and infrastructure.

You have no data to prove your assertion that isn't cherry-picked and actively misleading.

[RandomGuy]

Yes it does. They need to cut $400 M in spending.

No, they don't need to cut spending. They need to get rid of the stupid tax cuts.

I can do this all night.

[RandomGuy]

How so? The objective was to grow the economy. They did that.

But hey.

I call bullshit.

How much did they grow the economy?

Define "grow" and how much.

Cite sources.

[tlongII]

Unemployment decline, job growth up, wages up. Good things.

Also this:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinq...x-cuts-making-kansas-a-more-prosperous-state/

State Department of Revenue Secretary, Nick Jordanreported this week that while total March tax receipts were $11.2 million below what was expected, individual income tax receipts were $8.7 million higher than expectation. Jordan stated, “While the monthly receipts show a temporary shortfall, sales and use tax receipts for the fiscal year to date are $40 million more than during first nine months of the prior fiscal year. I’m pleased to see individual income tax receipts $8.7million above what we expected, driven in part by strong employment growth.”

[tlongII]

But hey.

I call bullshit.

How much did they grow the economy?

Define "grow" and how much.

Cite sources.

It's common sense. Unlike the liberal position that increased taxes grows the economy. That's a beaut of an argument.

[RandomGuy]

If spending is so important, and CUTS in spending directly result in poorer results, why is it that, as a country, education spending increases have outpaced inflation for a while now, yet test scores are falling? Causality should necessarily go both ways?

http://c3.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/pic_corner_080713_murdock.png

Increasing student/teacher ratios directly decreases performance and vice versa.

http://www.centerforpubliceducation.org/Main-Menu/Organizing-a-school/Class-size-and-student-achievement-At-a-glance/Class-size-and-student-achievement-Research-review.html

C
lass size and student achievement: Research review

Reducing class size to increase student achievement is an approach that has been tried, debated, and analyzed for several decades. The premise seems logical: with fewer students to teach, teachers can coax better performance from each of them. But what does the research show?

Some researchers have not found a connection between smaller classes and higher student achievement, but most of the research shows that when class size reduction programs are well-designed and implemented in the primary grades (K-3), student achievement rises as class size drops.

Research findings

We identified 19 studies that met our standards. Most of these addressed reduced class size programs in grades K-3. Indeed, most programs in the past 20 years have targeted these early grades, in part because earlier research (see, for example, Glass and Smith 1978), suggested that these are the optimal years for such programs, and in part because of the more recent and comprehensive evidence from Tennessee’s influential Project STAR (Student/Teacher Achievement Ratio). (For more information on Project STAR, visit http://www.heros-inc.org/star.htm.)

From this review of the research, we can scientifically document several important findings about reduced class size, which local school districts may find useful:

Smaller classes in the early grades (K-3) can boost student academic achievement;
A class size of no more than 18 students per teacher is required to produce the greatest benefits;
A program spanning grades K-3 will produce more benefits than a program that reaches students in only one or two of the primary grades;
Minority and low-income students show even greater gains when placed in small classes in the primary grades;
The experience and preparation of teachers is a critical factor in the success or failure of class size reduction programs;
Reducing class size will have little effect without enough classrooms and well-qualified teachers; and
Supports, such as professional development for teachers and a rigorous curriculum, enhance the effect of reduced class size on academic achievement.
The following sections describe several reduced class size programs and examine the evidence.

- See more at: http://www.centerforpubliceducation.org/Main-Menu/Organizing-a-school/Class-size-and-student-achievement-At-a-glance/Class-size-and-student-achievement-Research-review.html#sthash.vsvexCly.dpuf

If the Cato institute were interested in honesty and the truth, they would dig into a complex subject with a bit more evidence and a lot less simplification.

And yes, causality should work both ways.

Do you think that, all things equal, a school system faced with budget cuts will dump teachers?

That is exactly what happened in Texas.

[RandomGuy]

It's common sense. Unlike the liberal position that increased taxes grows the economy. That's a beaut of an argument.

I refuse to base policy on your common sense.

"Common sense" said the sun went around the earth. Until we found out otherwise.

You have given me no reason to take your word for anything yet.

[RandomGuy]

It's common sense. Unlike the liberal position that increased taxes grows the economy. That's a beaut of an argument.

I can show increasing taxes grows the economy.

All one really needs is any study, such as one that details drug treatment programs, that provides a positive NPV.

There are dozens.

It isn't taxes per se, but what one spends it on. People matter.

And please, stop trying to make up "what liberals believe" You have no idea other than some stick-figure cartoonish version of what liberals think or believe.

[RandomGuy]

http://icmpe.org/test1/journal/issues/v3pdf/3-011_text.pdf


The Journal of Mental Health Policy and Economics
J. Mental Health Policy Econ. 3, 11–26 (2000)
Cost–Benefit Analysis of Drug Treatment
Services: Review of the Literature†

Starters.

[RandomGuy]

YOu can move on to transportation spending and the studies noted here:

https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/economic_analysis_of_transportation_investments.pd f

AN ECONOMIC ANALYSIS OF
TRANSPORTATION
INFRASTRUCTURE
INVESTMENT


Goes through a fair case for it.

[RandomGuy]

http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/91-cbo-011.pdf

Bit of an old study by the CBO, but worth reading. Interesting.

Hell, take any good basic course on macroeconomics.

[Nbadan]

I can show increasing taxes grows the economy.

All one really needs is any study, such as one that details drug treatment programs, that provides a positive NPV.

There are dozens.

It isn't taxes per se, but what one spends it on. People matter.

And please, stop trying to make up "what liberals believe" You have no idea other than some stick-figure cartoonish version of what liberals think or believe.

Conventional thinking in most economic classes is that taxes hurt job growth, but I think that you have to be careful in making 'absolute' statements about any economic policy. Historically, when taxes are high, cutting taxes can lead to job growth, but when taxes aren't high....and 36-40% is not historically high, cutting taxes won't typically lead to the job growth necessary to make up the revenue lost in taxes

[ElNono]

Yes it does. They need to cut $400 M in spending.

Even if that would be the case, they clearly don't want to do that. They didn't want to do it when the tax cuts were enacted, and still don't want to do it now with the big hole in the budget.

They rather pillage other funds, or stop making pension fund payments (instead of actually trying to reform their pension system with actual cuts, which is, obviously, unpopular).

Reagan jacked up other taxes to make up the difference (which apparently now it's a 'liberal' policy), because there was no way in hell he was going to stop spending.

But if any modern conservative even suggests that, well, he's a "RINO"...

[boutons_deux]

"Historically, when taxes are high, cutting taxes can lead to job growth"

How about the "history" in USA from 1945 - 1965 of job growth with very high taxes on the wealthy, a strong and growing middle class, and heavy investment, both private and public.

[101A]

but most of the research shows that when class size reduction programs are well-designed and implemented in the primary grades (K-3), student achievement rises as class size drops.

Qualifiers in that sentence are noted.

Fine, I'm OK with spending extra money on K-3 education when it can be shown that that money will be invested in programs that are both well-designed and implemented. That is if that extra achievement in those early grades actually translates to those same students continuing to achieve more in the later grades, and the gains are not simply lost by the time those high-achieving students graduate high school (9 years later).

[RandomGuy]

[COLOR=#000000]

Qualifiers in that sentence are noted.

Fine, I'm OK with spending extra money on K-3 education when it can be shown that that money will be invested in programs that are both well-designed and implemented. That is if that extra achievement in those early grades actually translates to those same students continuing to achieve more in the later grades, and the gains are not simply lost by the time those high-achieving students graduate high school (9 years later).

I am satisfied with basing public policy on what the research, on balance, shows.

Perfect support is usually neither possible, nor really desirable from a cost standpoint.

We can however agree on this point. Part of the problem though, is that students performance in school is so strongly affected by what is going on outside of school, as my wife would readily attest.

If you want those gains locked in, you also need to follow them up, with other things that many regard as "welfare", and paint as wasteful, sans evidence.

What I wish were to happen was that both conservatives and liberals be given states to run with. We could end up taking the best ideas from both, even as dubious as I am with the idea that "fuck them, let them starve" is really a policy solution that I could morally live with.

[RandomGuy]

Conventional thinking in most economic classes is that taxes hurt job growth, but I think that you have to be careful in making 'absolute' statements about any economic policy. Historically, when taxes are high, cutting taxes can lead to job growth, but when taxes aren't high....and 36-40% is not historically high, cutting taxes won't typically lead to the job growth necessary to make up the revenue lost in taxes

Modern, complex economies require modern, complex government.

The US spans an entire continent, and is one of the larger countries in the world. Sheer size would dictate that a common currency and economic union would require some degree of complexity.

I am all for keeping government as small as possible, but I differ with many as to what "as possible" means, especially when it comes to protecting ordinary people from the large corporations that would, and do so readily prey on individuals and smaller companies in unethical, if not outright illegal ways.

Pressure To Act Unethically Looms Over Wall Street, Survey Finds
http://www.npr.org/2015/05/19/408010692/pressure-to-act-unethically-looms-over-wall-street-survey-finds

Another good example of large corporations acting unethically in ways that most would see require regulation: chicken farming.

For anybody who hasn't started watching John Oliver's show, you should. It is very smart, funny, and takes the news show format a lot farther than the Daily Show ever did. I have been solidly impressed with the depth and coverage he gives to his weekly topic.
X9wHzt6gBgI

[boutons_deux]

"large corporations acting unethically"

How naive.

Corporate-Americans have absolutely NO fiduciary responsibility to act morally or ethically.

Generating profits is the only ethic, and anything goes, up to and often beyond the law and regulations.

Get caught? declare bankruptcy, "corporate shield" law lets perps skate away.

[tlongII]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2013/04/01/infrastructure-gap-look-at-the-facts-we-spend-more-than-europe/

Infrastructure Gap? Look at the Facts. We Spend More Than Europe

Big government advocates seek to substitute “infrastructure” for the “s” (stimulus) word. President Obama’s State of the Union address called for $40 billion to fix the nation’s roads and bridges and also called for a federal infrastructure bank. On April 29, he called for an additional $4 billion of infrastructure spending. $40 billion here and $4 billion there, and soon you have some real money.

To convince a wary public to spend more with trillion dollar deficits, big government advocates must gin up a national infrastructure emergency that threatens safety, jobs, and well being. Public spending lobbyists are ready to oblige with D+ report cards for “aging and unreliable” roads, bridges, and ports. Big government advocates substitute scare tactics for the facts that our infrastructure is as good as Europe’s and that we spend more than the European Union on public investment. If we spend as much or more and have inferior infrastructure that is a political failure of untold proportions for which someone should pay.

President Obama used Miami’s port as a backdrop for his pitch for more $4 billion more in infrastructure spending. Gone are grandiose plans for massive stimulus to boost output and employment on Keynesian steroids. Instead the President is repackaging stimulus as infrastructure spending. Obama’s speech was timed to the newly-released American Society of Civil Engineers’ 2013 infrastructure report card. Its D+ rating rang the alarms that our roads, bridges, water and waste treatment, rail, dams, and airports are crumbling and unsafe.




At least the President reminded us in Miami that we have had the good fortune of four years of enlightened stimulus spending under him:

““Now, over the last four years, we’ve done some good work. Construction crews have built or improved enough roads….to circle the globe 14 times and upgraded enough (rail) to go coast to coast and back. We’ve repaired or replaced more than 20,000 bridges. We’ve helped get tens of thousands of construction workers back on the job.”

If our roads circled the globe 50 times would we get a B+? Teachers reserve D+ for students who make no effort other than to show up. D+ brings to mind backwater countries of Latin America and Asia. D+ is a national disgrace for a once great country! How could we have let it get so bad?

The Society of Civil Engineers (Failure to Act Studies) gives its price tag for restoring a first-world infrastructure. It would take $1.7T to correct our current infrastructure deficit and an extra $160 billion a year – or $1.1T — to meet our infrastructure needs through 2020. Our civil engineers do not tell us the effect of almost $3T in additional spending on the deficit. We should focus on the positive side. After all, what is it worth being able to drive across bridges without fear of plunging to certain death? (By my calculations our bridge failure rate is one in three hundred and fifty thousand).

Even though we do not have the $1.7T for current needs and the $1.1T for later, we would be penny wise and pound foolish not to borrow and spend, say our civil engineers. The $160 billion extra over each of the next seven years would alone raise GDP by $3.1T (a three to one return) and add 3.5 million jobs! What a bonanza!

We have not seen such optimistic numbers since the young Obama administration promised huge returns for the first stimulus. Should we put again put caution aside? A word of warning: The web site of the Society of Civil Engineers shows it to be a lobbyist for infrastructure spending. Asking the civil engineers how much infrastructure spending we need is akin to asking defense contractors how much we should spend to keep America safe. I doubt if the big government people would like that.

The U.S.’s fourteenth place ranking in the World Economic Forum’s infrastructure index scarcely bespeaks a national scandal. Luxembourg and Canada rank just above the U.S., and Austria and Denmark rank just below. None of these countries are exactly slouches in the infrastructure category. Among the twenty largest countries, the U.S. ranks second only to Canada. The World Economic Forum index also shows that U.S. infrastructure beats the European Union average by a wide margin! How can that be with the high speed rail and the gleaming Autobahns of the European Union – the envy of our transportation bureaucrats?

Consider another hitch. OECD infrastructure experts find that Europe has too much supply of roads and rail relative to the demand. Yes, they have trains departing every few minutes, but half empty, and do Germans really need five different Autobahns to drive from Munich to Frankfurt? The same OECD experts find that the U.S., Canada, and Australia have built about the amount of infrastructure that fits the demand.

Well, if all else fails, our big government spenders at least can show that we spend little on infrastructure relative to countries that have good infrastructure. We can really catch the U.S. with its pants down by looking at its miserly infrastructure spending.

Get ready for a surprise. According to OECD statistics, the United States spends 3.3 percent of its GDP (2006-2011) on infrastructure investment versus the European Union’s 3.1 percent. With roughly equal GDPs, the United States actually outspends the Europe Union – our model of infrastructure perfection.

If we spend as much or more than the European Union on infrastructure, we should have better or equal results. In both the United States and Europe, public investment and procurement are political processes characterized by waste, politics and corruption. If we get less bang per buck from our infrastructure dollar than do our European colleagues, our problem would be not too few dollars but too much waste and corruption.

In his Miami pitch for more infrastructure spending, the President stated: “We’ve got to do it in a way that makes sure taxpayer dollars are spent wisely.” Does he know something the people do not? Could it be that tax payer dollars were not wisely spent in the past? Could the unions, crony capitalists, and lobbyists have collected at taxpayer expense?

That would be as hard to believe as Claude Rains’ surprise that there was gambling in Casablanca.

[boutons_deux]

The VRWC stink tank shill doesn't mention how the US financial sector has screwed municipal bonds market with LIBOR fixing, exploding interest rates, swaps, etc, etc. iow, the FINANCIAL costs of US infrastructure expenses go to his "crony, corrupt capitalists" probably much more so than in Europe.

So his prescription is to REDUCE infrastructure spending in USA? let the water, sewer, roads, bridges, electrical grid just rot away?

[101A]

What I wish were to happen was that both conservatives and liberals be given states to run with. We could end up taking the best ideas from both, even as dubious as I am with the idea that "fuck them, let them starve" is really a policy solution that I could morally live with.

Isn't that already occurring? In all seriousness? We have states dominated by liberals and conservatives. Unfortunately, despite these examples, we can't even agree on what IS working vs. isn't. There is too much of an agenda. If it looks like the tax cuts in Kansas MIGHT be reaping some benefits - those MUST be dismissed by the left, lest their agenda/philosophy/religion on "supply-side" be questioned. Same thing with immigration reform, raising capital gains taxes, and other issues that the right has a knee jerk doctrinal/tribal - negative reaction to.

[boutons_deux]

"If it looks like the tax cuts in Kansas MIGHT be reaping some benefits"

still waiting for hard proof that KS taxes inhibited jobs and reducing KS taxes on the wealthy/corps created jobs.

[RandomGuy]

Isn't that already occurring? In all seriousness? We have states dominated by liberals and conservatives. Unfortunately, despite these examples, we can't even agree on what IS working vs. isn't. There is too much of an agenda. If it looks like the tax cuts in Kansas MIGHT be reaping some benefits - those MUST be dismissed by the left, lest their agenda/philosophy/religion on "supply-side" be questioned. Same thing with immigration reform, raising capital gains taxes, and other issues that the right has a knee jerk doctrinal/tribal - negative reaction to.

Yes, it kinda is happening in state laboratories.

In all due seriousness, I am always more interested in what works and what doesn't. In this case, the best reading I can get out of the data is that it isn't doing much, if anything. The only real effects seem to be draw downs of the financial reserves of the state, more debt, and pressure to cut budgets for education and transportation, which is short-sighted in the extreme.

I have not really ever seen any evidence that supply-side ideas work, despite their having been tried in various places and times, and I am always happy to consider serious data and studies, even ones from the Cato institute.

If the cuts in Kansas actually do anything other than wreck the states finances, I will be happy to admit it. The problem proponents and defenders of these policy options have, will be to separate what would have happened absent the cuts from the effect of the cuts, as has already been noted by the states own budget experts.

This isn't a knee-jerk reaction. It is what the data does or doesn't show. The cuts were pretty substantial. If the effects of tax cuts were really all that strong, it should have been a lot easier to pick out the signal from the noise.

[RandomGuy]

"If it looks like the tax cuts in Kansas MIGHT be reaping some benefits"

still waiting for hard proof that KS taxes inhibited jobs and reducing KS taxes on the wealthy/corps created jobs.



You will be waiting for a long time.

One thing you should keep in mind, is that government spending is part of GDP, by definition.

Further funds spent by governments dont, contrary to what some believe vanish out of the economy. Government employees pay bills and buy things, and safety net programs give money to the people who are most likely to spend the funds, further adding to GDP, again, by definition.

Read up on the "velocity of money" concept.

[RandomGuy]

Asking the civil engineers how much infrastructure spending we need is akin to asking defense contractors how much we should spend to keep America safe.



Description of Circumstantial Ad Hominem

A Circumstantial ad Hominem is a fallacy in which one attempts to attack a claim by asserting that the person making the claim is making it simply out of self interest. In some cases, this fallacy involves substituting an attack on a person's circumstances (such as the person's religion, political affiliation, ethnic background, etc.). The fallacy has the following forms:

Person A makes claim X.
Person B asserts that A makes claim X because it is in A's interest to claim X.
Therefore claim X is false.

A Circumstantial ad Hominem is a fallacy because a person's interests and circumstances have no bearing on the truth or falsity of the claim being made. While a person's interests will provide them with motives to support certain claims, the claims stand or fall on their own. It is also the case that a person's circumstances (religion, political affiliation, etc.) do not affect the truth or falsity of the claim.



Who should we be asking about infrastructure? Dentists? GMAFB.

I see a long opinion piece, almost completely devoid of facts or valid arguments.

What might be helpful though, is to see what actually goes into the civil engineers assessments, rather than simply saying they are wrong, because they make their living being experts on the topic.

It makes for interesting reading.

http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/

[RandomGuy]

So let's start with infrastructure categories.

INFRASTRUCTURE GRADES FOR 2013

ENERGY D+
SCHOOLS D
PUBLIC PARKS & RECREATION C-
TRANSIT D
ROADS D
RAIL C+
PORTS C
INLAND WATERWAYS D-
BRIDGES C+
AVIATION D
WASTEWATER D
SOLID WASTE B-
LEVEES D-
HAZARDOUS WASTE D
DRINKING WATER D
DAMS D

Looks like a bit more than just roads.

First lets see what goes into the grades, i.e. what do they mean:

A
EXCEPTIONAL: FIT FOR THE FUTURE
The infrastructure in the system or network is generally in excellent condition, typically new or recently rehabilitated, and meets capacity needs for the future. A few elements show signs of general deterioration that require attention. Facilities meet modern standards for functionality and resilient to withstand most disasters and severe weather events.

B
GOOD: ADEQUATE FOR NOW
The infrastructure in the system or network is in good to excellent condition; some elements show signs of general deterioration that require attention. A few elements exhibit significant deficiencies. Safe and reliable with minimal capacity issues and minimal risk.

C
MEDIOCRE: REQUIRES ATTENTION
The infrastructure in the system or network is in fair to good condition; it shows general signs of deterioration and requires attention. Some elements exhibit significant deficiencies in conditions and functionality, with increasing vulnerability to risk.

D
POOR: AT RISK
The infrastructure is in poor to fair condition and mostly below standard, with many elements approaching the end of their service life. A large portion of the system exhibits significant deterioration. Condition and capacity are of significant concern with strong risk of failure.

F
FAILING/CRITICAL: UNFIT FOR PURPOSE
The infrastructure in the system is in unacceptable condition with widespread advanced signs of deterioration. Many of the components of the system exhibit signs of imminent failure

They go into quite a bit more detail on the methods they use to get their assessments here:
http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/a/#p/about-the-report-card/methodology

[RandomGuy]

So let's pick the one closest to an "F". See what they are worried about.


Our nation’s inland waterways and rivers are the hidden backbone of our freight network – they carry the equivalent of about 51 million truck trips each year . In many cases, the inland waterways system has not been updated since the 1950s, and more than half of the locks are over 50 years old . Barges are stopped for hours each day with unscheduled delays, preventing goods from getting to market and driving up costs. There is an average of 52 service interruptions a day throughout the system. Projects to repair and replace aging locks and dredge channels take decades to approve and complete, exacerbating the problem further.

So, it seems here that there are some pretty direct, identifiable, and, CAUSAL, connections here to aging waterway transportation networks.
http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/inland-waterways/


Our nation’s inland waterways and rivers are the hidden backbone of our freight network – they carry the equivalent of about 51 million truck trips each year. For that reason, they are often called “inland marine highways.” These marine highways provide a crucial way to carry large amounts of cargo that would otherwise travel by truck or by rail, easing congestion on the surface transportation system.

The inland waterways system includes 12,000 miles of commercially navigable channels, with over 200 lock chambers. Major water channels, from the Mississippi to the Columbia-Snake river systems (the latter in the Pacific Northwest), carry barges that are the preferred method for moving bulk cargo such as grain and steel, as well as hazardous materials. More than 566 million tons of freight move through the inland waterway system annually, valued at more than $152 billion. Actual traffic on inland waterways has remained stable in recent years, although the Department of Transportation has projected that it will increase over the next 25 years.

An intricate system of waterways ties inland ports to ocean ports. For example, the Mississippi River connects to ports on the Gulf of Mexico, the Columbia and Snake rivers connect to Pacific Northwest ports, and interconnecting rivers form a marine highway network in the heart of the nation, from the Gulf Ports to the Great Lakes. It is estimated that 346 million tons of goods were transferred from inland waterways to deep water ports in 2010, primarily for export.

For customers that ship goods through the inland waterway system, the price of services has increased since 2005 as the system ages and causes delays. The greatest threats to the performance of the nation’s inland waterway system are delays caused by insufficient funds for proper operation and maintenance of the facilities. Many of the locks are too small for modern barges, and are susceptible to closures. When a lock or dam reaches poor condition, barges have to stop more often to allow for scheduled maintenance. These scheduled lock outages to address maintenance issues are increasing. Unscheduled delay is most often the result of high volumes at transit points, as well as occasional failures in equipment, resulting in increased operating costs. Unscheduled delays are especially costly because vessel operators are unable to anticipate and offset the costs of these incidents.

Ninety percent of locks and dams on the U.S. inland waterway system experienced some type of unscheduled delay or service interruption in 2009, averaging 52 delays a day. The hours lost due to unscheduled delays has increased significantly since the 1990s, which costs industry and consumers hundreds of millions of dollars annually. For 2011, the total number of hours of delay experienced by barges throughout the entire inland waterway system reached the equivalent of 25 years. The greatest total delay in 2011 at a particular lock was at the Markland Lock on the Ohio River with 52,032 hours. The Ohio and Upper Mississippi systems have a disproportionate share of delays compared to other rivers across the country.

It goes on.

This is what evidence and facts look like tlong.

Snarky op-eds do not solve problems. People like this, do.

Spending on this, even if it were financed by debt, offer tangible short and long term benefits.

[RandomGuy]

One would be hard pressed to argue that decreasing business losses on lost productivity are a wasteful investment of taxpayer funds, IMO.

Unless, of course, you are driven by ideological dogma. In that case... all you need to do is dredge up another op-ed.

[ElNono]

Isn't that already occurring? In all seriousness? We have states dominated by liberals and conservatives. Unfortunately, despite these examples, we can't even agree on what IS working vs. isn't. There is too much of an agenda. If it looks like the tax cuts in Kansas MIGHT be reaping some benefits - those MUST be dismissed by the left, lest their agenda/philosophy/religion on "supply-side" be questioned. Same thing with immigration reform, raising capital gains taxes, and other issues that the right has a knee jerk doctrinal/tribal - negative reaction to.

You don't have to be a lefty to dismiss it because it doesn't add up. It's easy to "benefit" the constituents by showering them with tax cuts the state can't afford. It's clear they can't afford it since the budget has a huge hole in it now.

This is what happens when you apply dogma instead of an actual fiscal plan. There's nothing wrong with cutting taxes if that's what you feel is going to work for your economy, but you either need to have a plan to shrink government or make up the revenue shortfall in a different way. Unlike the federal government, States can't print up money and make up the difference.

[tlongII]

So let's pick the one closest to an "F". See what they are worried about.



So, it seems here that there are some pretty direct, identifiable, and, CAUSAL, connections here to aging waterway transportation networks.
http://www.infrastructurereportcard.org/inland-waterways/



It goes on.

This is what evidence and facts look like tlong.

Snarky op-eds do not solve problems. People like this, do.

Spending on this, even if it were financed by debt, offer tangible short and long term benefits.

Facts presented by the American Society of Civil Engineers who directly benefit from infrastructure spending. Yeah right.

[101A]

, especially when it comes to protecting ordinary people from the large corporations that would, and do so readily prey on individuals and smaller companies in unethical, if not outright illegal ways.


Agree 100%. Unfortunately, however, the more powerful the corporation, the more the government is used to enable, encourage, and ultimately enrich them. Since the corps. control the government, the more power the government has, the more we are living in a Plutocracy. Gramm-Clint...errr...Leach was the MAJOR accomplishment of the Plutocrats, and it was supported by BOTH parties - neither is looking out for the "ordinary" citizen, rhetoric notwithstanding. Neither is more honorable or forthright than the other, they simple each use their own narrative to maintain roughly 1/2 the power - each speaking "truth" to half the population (ideal if you want THIS system to be perpetual. A single party in control can be overthrown, more than two can be chaotic, 2 is JUUUST right).

Clinton and most of the Republican front-runners are already Street approved. This dynamic isn't changing anytime soon. That's why I support de-centralizing power whenever possible. If the corps can buy all the power they need in one location, great for them. Washington, your one-stop for complete national control!

[101A]

You don't have to be a lefty to dismiss it because it doesn't add up. It's easy to "benefit" the constituents by showering them with tax cuts the state can't afford. It's clear they can't afford it since the budget has a huge hole in it now.

This is what happens when you apply dogma instead of an actual fiscal plan. There's nothing wrong with cutting taxes if that's what you feel is going to work for your economy, but you either need to have a plan to shrink government or make up the revenue shortfall in a different way. Unlike the federal government, States can't print up money and make up the difference.


I get that, I was just using that as an example of knee-jerk response (to keep this alter-thread I began somewhat related to the OP). Not really debating the merits of the tax cuts. Before this report, frankly, I thought it was universally agreed that Kansas was in the shitter.

[RandomGuy]

Facts presented by the American Society of Civil Engineers who directly benefit from infrastructure spending. Yeah right.

This has already been explained as a bad argument.

A guy selling you a radiation suit before you take a tour of Chernobyl is not lying about the dangers of radiation.

If you can't say why specifically they are wrong about their assessment, you should ask yourself why that is. If they really are playing up the danger to promote their own interests, it should be fairly easy to show how that is.

You could also tell me who would tell us if our infrastructure was in bad shape? Businesses that depend on canals and so forth from shipping certainly are feeling the effects of the delays.

Are you saying that somehow the engineers are wrong about the hundreds of millions of dollars in extra costs to the shippers that depend on functioning canal locks?

[ElNono]

I get that, I was just using that as an example of knee-jerk response (to keep this alter-thread I began somewhat related to the OP). Not really debating the merits of the tax cuts. Before this report, frankly, I thought it was universally agreed that Kansas was in the shitter.

There's a lot of demagoguery going around, and it's not specific to a single party. It gets compounded by interest-group-turned-into-think-tank cherry picking.

I mean, Kansas is also an egregious case because the legislature is also controlled by the GOP. So it's not a case like in NJ, where Christie needs to deal with a Dem legislature and it's a constant battle, here they could do whatever they wanted and they half assed it.

[RandomGuy]

Agree 100%. Unfortunately, however, the more powerful the corporation, the more the government is used to enable, encourage, and ultimately enrich them. Since the corps. control the government, the more power the government has, the more we are living in a Plutocracy. Gramm-Clint...errr...Leach was the MAJOR accomplishment of the Plutocrats, and it was supported by BOTH parties - neither is looking out for the "ordinary" citizen, rhetoric notwithstanding. Neither is more honorable or forthright than the other, they simple each use their own narrative to maintain roughly 1/2 the power - each speaking "truth" to half the population (ideal if you want THIS system to be perpetual. A single party in control can be overthrown, more than two can be chaotic, 2 is JUUUST right).

Clinton and most of the Republican front-runners are already Street approved. This dynamic isn't changing anytime soon. That's why I support de-centralizing power whenever possible. If the corps can buy all the power they need in one location, great for them. Washington, your one-stop for complete national control!

I pretty much agree.

It is frustrating to me, for pretty much the same reasons.

There should be a healthy balance though between state and federal, as it is a lot easier for sub-industries to buy state governments.

HOAs in Texas are a good example.

Payday loans another.

Again, John Oliver nails it, and comments on Texas rather directly:

PDylgzybWAw

[RandomGuy]

There's a lot of demagoguery going around, and it's not specific to a single party. It gets compounded by interest-group-turned-into-think-tank cherry picking.

I mean, Kansas is also an egregious case because the legislature is also controlled by the GOP. So it's not a case like in NJ, where Christie needs to deal with a Dem legislature and it's a constant battle, here they could do whatever they wanted and they half assed it.

I will call bullshit. The parties are not equal in that regard.

Name a Democratic equivalent to Ted Cruz.

There is a vast gulf between the parties. The crazies have stormed the battlements of the GOP, and it shows.

Moderates of all sorts have been handed their heads in GOP primaries.

Dems have their faults, and demagogues, but you can't say they are equivalent. No way.

[boutons_deux]

"they are equivalent"

rightwingnuts' main defense of their Repug assholes and Repug disasters is that the Dems are just as big assholes, would screw up, eg invade Iraq for oil, just like the Repugs did, and do.

It's JUST ANOTHER BIG LIE on which always-wrong, ALWAYS-lying rightwingnuts base their "philosophy"

[tlongII]

This has already been explained as a bad argument.

A guy selling you a radiation suit before you take a tour of Chernobyl is not lying about the dangers of radiation.

If you can't say why specifically they are wrong about their assessment, you should ask yourself why that is. If they really are playing up the danger to promote their own interests, it should be fairly easy to show how that is.

You could also tell me who would tell us if our infrastructure was in bad shape? Businesses that depend on canals and so forth from shipping certainly are feeling the effects of the delays.

Are you saying that somehow the engineers are wrong about the hundreds of millions of dollars in extra costs to the shippers that depend on functioning canal locks?

I'm saying that the engineers have a vested interest in exaggerating their claims.

[RandomGuy]

I'm saying that the engineers have a vested interest in exaggerating their claims.

So? Have they exaggerated their claims?

If you take the time to read what it is they are saying they provide some readily verifiable evidence to support them.

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, civil engineers are known for lying about infrastructure since they are so hard up for work.

[tlongII]

So? Have they exaggerated their claims?

If you take the time to read what it is they are saying they provide some readily verifiable evidence to support them.

All I have to do is read the following quote and I know they have...


The greatest threats to the performance of the nation’s inland waterway system are delays caused by insufficient funds for proper operation and maintenance of the facilities.

[ElNono]

I will call bullshit. The parties are not equal in that regard.

Name a Democratic equivalent to Ted Cruz.

There is a vast gulf between the parties. The crazies have stormed the battlements of the GOP, and it shows.

Moderates of all sorts have been handed their heads in GOP primaries.

Dems have their faults, and demagogues, but you can't say they are equivalent. No way.

I said there's a lot of demagoguery going around in both parties, and in the macro there is. Analyzing the "degrees of demagoguery" on each individual politico is an exercise in futility, IMO.

Guys like Reid, Pelosi, Feinstein, etc are as much full of shit as the Cruz, Christie, etc on the right. You might not hear about them as much because they're not seeking higher office, but when they had to act, their actions spoke loudly for them.

[TeyshaBlue]

:tu

[boutons_deux]

"Guys like Reid, Pelosi, Feinstein, etc are as much full of shit as the Cruz, Christie, etc on the right."

that's bullshit, really really bullshit. There ain't nobody on the Dem side even close to Krazy Kruz, Prick Scott, Scott Walker, Jindal, Gohmert, and all the tea bagger crazy shit-cover tail wagging the Repug dog.

red states vs blue states seals the deal. Repugs fuck up their staties, MI, KS, OK, IN, the Confederacy, WI, etc.

and there's nothing comparable to the red-state/Confederate/Christian Taliban/Fox News/BecKKK/AFA/voter suppression on the Dem side

[RandomGuy]

All I have to do is read the following quote and I know they have...

Actually, you have to do a hell of a lot more than that.
You are still simply repeating the same flawed argument over and over.

If that is an exaggeration, show how.

[boutons_deux]

"still waiting for hard proof that (KS) taxes inhibit jobs and reducing (KS) taxes on the wealthy/corps created jobs"

[DarrinS]

I will call bullshit. The parties are not equal in that regard.

Name a Democratic equivalent to Ted Cruz.

There is a vast gulf between the parties. The crazies have stormed the battlements of the GOP, and it shows.

Moderates of all sorts have been handed their heads in GOP primaries.

Dems have their faults, and demagogues, but you can't say they are equivalent. No way.


You sound like Rachel Maddow when she was called out by Jon Stewart.

:cry

[boutons_deux]

"like in NJ, where Christie needs to deal with a Dem legislature"

Fatboy blocked the badly needed new Hudson river tunnel to finance his slush funds, has been handing $100Ms in mgmt fees sucked out of NJ employees retirement funds handed to his campaign donor. Typical 0.01% Wall Street corrupt scum fucking the 99%.

Now he says NJ doesn't want him as Pres because they love him, want to keep him as NJ gov. :lol

http://www.politico.com/story/2015/02/poll-chris-christie-approval-ratings-115173.html

[boutons_deux]

GOP Guvs With '16 Ambitions Hamstrung By Budget Crises Of Own Making
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/budget-battles-gop-2016-governors?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpm-news+%28TPMNews%29

and still you rightwingut dumbfucks vote Repug. :lol

[RandomGuy]

You sound like Rachel Maddow when she was called out by Jon Stewart.

:cry

:lmao

[RandomGuy]

I said there's a lot of demagoguery going around in both parties, and in the macro there is. Analyzing the "degrees of demagoguery" on each individual politico is an exercise in futility, IMO.

Guys like Reid, Pelosi, Feinstein, etc are as much full of shit as the Cruz, Christie, etc on the right. You might not hear about them as much because they're not seeking higher office, but when they had to act, their actions spoke loudly for them.

I'm always willing to listen.

Actions such as?

Pelosi, Reid, etc as partisan as she/he is, is no where near the level of crazy as Cruz.

Make the case for that. I just don't see it.

[RandomGuy]

All I have to do is read the following quote and I know they have...

https://gatsiesheikar.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/headdesk.png

Put it another way:

A lot of our infrastructure is nearing the end of its planned life. The waterways appear to be the worst example.

You are basically trying to tell me that someone saying "old mechanical things tend to break down more often, and need to be replaced" is wrong, simply because they are the experts on fixing those things.

That is some truly dumb shit. Seriously stupid.

"derr, the mechanic is wrong when he says I need to fix that wierd noise, so I'm gonna save my money and keep drivin' da car".

http://www.leaderbird.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/RustyCivic2.jpg

You are then: "Duh, my car won't work... duh"

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads15/IMG_83401255302057.jpg


Does that sink in now?

Do you see how stupid that argument is?

[DarrinS]

As for spending on public education, this is interesting

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/01/where-school-dollars-go-to-waste/384949/


The North East and CA (hotbeds of GOP leadership :lmao) have the most wasteful school districts. Texas and Florida get more bang for their buck.

[boutons_deux]

Texas and Florida get more bang for their buck.

TX and FL are near the bottom in spending per student, so any bang looks good. Note that the bang (quality education, dropout rate, grade repeat rate, graduation rate, college entrance) isn't listed.

[RandomGuy]

As for spending on public education, this is interesting

http://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2015/01/where-school-dollars-go-to-waste/384949/


The North East and CA (hotbeds of GOP leadership :lmao) have the most wasteful school districts. Texas and Florida get more bang for their buck.

Liberal Austin makes the top ten.


California is also home to some of the most wasteful K-12 spenders, according to WalletHub—11 of the state's 16 most-populated cities are in the bottom 25. It's noteworthy that two of those cities also top the list of the percentage of households where English isn't spoken as a first language. While that factor isn't necessarily a reason for their inefficient spending, research shows that the language barrier can have a disastrous effect on learning outcomes. Gonzalez, however, pointed to other cities that strived despite their socioeconomic challenges. "Those able to integrate socioeconomically have a leg up," she said. "We see that in Raleigh [No. 22] and in Austin [No. 8] they were able to overcome any factors that in other cities might be holding them back."

Be happy to admit that stupid administration can be traced to poor outcomes. My wife can speak to that rather directly, although probably wouldn't come out and say it directly for fear of potential reprisals.

A good part of my job is evaluating upper management, and from what I have seen taking that and applying it to school boards in RL, it is shocking to see the kinds of idiots that can be elected to school boards, who know fuckall about education, or even managing a company.

[boutons_deux]

"Liberal Austin makes the top ten."

so does Blue Miami.

[tlongII]

https://gatsiesheikar.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/headdesk.png

Put it another way:

A lot of our infrastructure is nearing the end of its planned life. The waterways appear to be the worst example.

You are basically trying to tell me that someone saying "old mechanical things tend to break down more often, and need to be replaced" is wrong, simply because they are the experts on fixing those things.

That is some truly dumb shit. Seriously stupid.

"derr, the mechanic is wrong when he says I need to fix that wierd noise, so I'm gonna save my money and keep drivin' da car".

http://www.leaderbird.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/RustyCivic2.jpg

You are then: "Duh, my car won't work... duh"

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/uploads15/IMG_83401255302057.jpg


Does that sink in now?

Do you see how stupid that argument is?

It's not what, it's how much.

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm always willing to listen.

Actions such as?

Pelosi, Reid, etc as partisan as she/he is, is no where near the level of crazy as Cruz.

Make the case for that. I just don't see it.
Probably want to define the crazy level before it's moved again.

[boutons_deux]

:lol

Kansas Republicans Finally Admit That Their Tax Cuts For The Wealthy Have Failed

With the state budget forecast to have a 400 million dollar shortfall, Kansas Republicans are finally acknowledging that the massive GOP tax cuts approved under Governor Sam Brownback have not generated the revenue Republican lawmakers promised (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/30/us/politics/to-fill-budget-hole-kansas-republicans-consider-the-unthinkable-raising-taxes.html?ref=politics&_r=1). The right-wing Kansas Legislature is now contemplating the unthinkable — raising taxes to plug the budget hole.

The legislature which passed drastic tax cuts in 2012 is now scrambling to find ways to undo the damage their shortsighted approach has inflicted upon the state’s economy and its services.

Republicans are acknowledging that they can no longer cut their way to growth, having already taken the budget ax to state pensions, public schools, and government programs.Republican Senator Les Donovan (Wichita) admitted the failure of the GOP’s tax cuts, stating (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/30/us/politics/to-fill-budget-hole-kansas-republicans-consider-the-unthinkable-raising-taxes.html?ref=politics&_r=1):

We hoped they would just be a magic lantern and everybody would react to it.

But, eh, it’s hard to get a company to uproot their business when they’re established and move to another place just because of this difference in tax policy.


Expecting the tax cuts to work like rubbing a magic lantern reveals the faith-based nature of the Republican Party’s dogmatic adherence to cutting taxes for the wealthy to stimulate economic growth and bring in revenue.

They believe in the policy, not because it has worked before, but because they hope it will work like a “magic lantern”. Yet, in Kansas, Republicans are now discovering that there is no such thing as magic when it comes to operating the state’s budget.

http://www.politicususa.com/2015/05/30/kansas-republicans-finally-admit-tax-cuts-wealthy-failed.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+politicususa%2FfJAl+%28Politi cus+USA+%29

Repug "faith-based" economic bullshit fucked up Kansas, just like Repugs' "faith-based" AGW-denial bullshit is fucking up the planet.

Repugs are ALWAYS wrong, on everything.

[ElNono]

I'm always willing to listen.

Actions such as?

Pelosi, Reid, etc as partisan as she/he is, is no where near the level of crazy as Cruz.

Make the case for that. I just don't see it.

Like extending neocon hawk bullshit like the Patriot Act, war funding, or actually doing ONE, ONE thing they supposedly stand for. Obamacare was perhaps the very worst of all of it, wheeling and dealing and eventually having to pass it mostly with their own majority. If you gotta do that, why not go for something you've been actually preaching for, like single-payor? Instead, we get this pro-insurance, pro-pharma middle of the road bullshit that doesn't even touch cost.

All the rhetoric about Wall Street, big money, and they were the accomplices of Dubya in the bailout. The Dodd-Frank regulation was obviously a mere slap in the hand, as banks have never been better (or bigger).

Again, not trying to gauge who's more or less full of shit. They simply are full of it.

[RandomGuy]

It's not what, it's how much.

No shit sherlock.

If the mechanic tells you "it will cost $500 to fix that head gasket", and you say that is too much, then it throws a rod, and suddenly you need a $3000 engine, you are still a fucking idiot for thinking he was lying to you about needing the $500 repair.

In this case, the concept you are lacking is that of economic multiplier.

Again, going back to the waterways, they point out the economic costs of the unplanned delays to the economy. How many hundreds of billions of dollars do you want to spend to save ten billion in building costs?

They point out the costs to the economy for each of the things they look at, if you were willing to actually read what they are saying instead of being lazy.

I don't blame you for being lazy. That is the way most people work.

It takes effort to understand economic concepts like the multiplier effect. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/multiplier+effect

I surely can't expect you to click on a link and learn something. That is too much to ask.

Nor can you be bothered to put down the bag of doritos and read what the engineers actually say.

The lazy, easy thing to do is to just not read anything they have taken the time to analyse. Just read one quote and think you know everything about it, because it looks like it confirms what you already believe. Easy peasy.

All I have to do is read the following quote...

The effort required to read data, and examine your starting assumptions is too much for you.

Its okay. Don't bother. I think we can all accept the fact that you are lazy and would prefer to take the easy way out when things get important.

I'll do the reading for you. Just don't bitch when you can't respond without looking like the lazy shit in class who hasn't done his homework.

[RandomGuy]

Like extending neocon hawk bullshit like the Patriot Act, war funding, or actually doing ONE, ONE thing they supposedly stand for. Obamacare was perhaps the very worst of all of it, wheeling and dealing and eventually having to pass it mostly with their own majority. If you gotta do that, why not go for something you've been actually preaching for, like single-payor? Instead, we get this pro-insurance, pro-pharma middle of the road bullshit that doesn't even touch cost.

All the rhetoric about Wall Street, big money, and they were the accomplices of Dubya in the bailout. The Dodd-Frank regulation was obviously a mere slap in the hand, as banks have never been better (or bigger).

Again, not trying to gauge who's more or less full of shit. They simply are full of it.

None of which makes them as crazy as Cruz, not anywhere near it.

The bailout was necessary, by any sane reasoning. Getting the first real heal insurance reform through the teatards sort of required working within a majority, and even then requires compromise. Kind of hard to work with people shitting in your hand.

Not to say they aren't politicians, but I still just don't see it.

Are you saying that compromise is a bad thing? Pass what you can, rather than your ideal?

Almost seems self-contradictory. "I blame them for being partisan, and by the way they shouldn't compromise what they want to get what they can get".

[ElNono]

None of which makes them as crazy as Cruz, not anywhere near it.

The bailout was necessary, by any sane reasoning. Getting the first real heal insurance reform through the teatards sort of required working within a majority, and even then requires compromise. Kind of hard to work with people shitting in your hand.

Not to say they aren't politicians, but I still just don't see it.

Are you saying that compromise is a bad thing? Pass what you can, rather than your ideal?

Almost seems self-contradictory. "I blame them for being partisan, and by the way they shouldn't compromise what they want to get what they can get".

IMO, there's nothing crazy about Cruz... he's a seasoned politician that has been part of an administration, his message is tailored to a certain fringe, but it's really no different than Barry campaigning on women's equality, closing Gitmo or ending wars (the latter earned him criticism about not being fit to be a CIC). Barry turned out to be full of shit, don't really expect any different from Cruz. He's unelectable because his message is largely tailored strictly to that fringe, but I think that's just part of a strategy for him.

The bailout was way more than it needed to be. It's ok to bail out select banks to prevent a run, but bailing AIG? No criminal charges for what amounted to criminal behavior? There's plenty of Pelosi rants about big banks, but when she had to put her money where her mouth was, she tucked tails.

:lol what compromise? IIRC, there was a single GOP vote on both the House and Senate. That's not compromise, that's ramming shit through. Let's see the vote count, this "compromise" you're talking about.

Now that he's in the minority, Reid's favorite tool is the filibuster. Imagine that. As a centrist, I love compromise, but it's largely not happening right now. We're at a high level of polarization, and IMO, it's been damaging to the nation. This us vs them mentality is killing us.

[boutons_deux]

"that's ramming shit through."

no, that's Repugs reflexively obstructing EVERYTHING the Dems have proposed for 6 years.

The TARP bailout plan came from a Repug Treasurer and OK'd by the Repug Exec.

And, as LBJ said, if you have enough votes, you pass anything, not the same as the Repugs using reconciliation in 2001 to RAM THROUGH the biggest tax cut (for the wealthy) because they didn't have enough votes to overcome a filibuster.

The Repugs voted against TARP because they knew it would pass without them.

At the same time, they knew TARP was essential to bailing out the financial sector (not bailing out The Real Economy, Main st). They voted against TARP so they could propagandize, politick on "I voted against TARP" to you guys, their ignorant, stupid base that, among others, hates the banks.

Had the Repugs won in 2008, they would have owned and passed "their" TARP because their owners the financial sector demanded it be passed.

Equating Obama with Cruz on the craziness scale proves your full of shit. Cruz is a freshman Senator, NOT seasoned, except with extreme, Christian Taliban supremacist anarchist unConstitutional shit. yum yum

[ElNono]

"that's ramming shit through."

no, that's Repugs reflexively obstructing EVERYTHING the Dems have proposed for 6 years.

And Reid cajoled a lot of GOP legislation that he's now filibustering, like the trade agreement. I'm not a fan of the GOP filibustering, but call a spade a spade.


The TARP bailout plan came from a Repug Treasurer and OK'd by the Repug Exec.

That's exactly what I said.


And, as LBJ said, if you have enough votes, you pass anything, not the same as the Repugs using reconciliation in 2001 to RAM THROUGH the biggest tax cut (for the wealthy) because they didn't have enough votes to overcome a filibuster.

This is where you're making my point for me.


The Repugs voted against TARP because they knew it would pass without them.

At the same time, they knew TARP was essential to bailing out the financial sector (not bailing out The Real Economy, Main st). They voted against TARP so they could propagandize, politick on "I voted against TARP" to you guys, their ignorant, stupid base that, among others, hates the banks.

Had the Repugs won in 2008, they would have owned and passed "their" TARP because their owners the financial sector demanded it be passed.

What you're saying is the financial sector has co-opted both parties, which is exactly the point I was making. There's no "saint" Dems or GOP. The difference here is that the GOP rhetoric isn't "big banks bad, boooo". That's you and blue team, but when the shit hit the fan, they showed their true colors.


Equating Obama with Cruz on the craziness scale proves your full of shit. Cruz is a freshman Senator, NOT seasoned, except with extreme, Christian Taliban supremacist anarchist unConstitutional shit. yum yum

Between 1999 and 2003, Cruz was the director of the Office of Policy Planning at the Federal Trade Commission, an associate deputy attorney general at the United States Department of Justice, and as domestic policy advisor to U.S. President George W. Bush on the 2000 Bush-Cheney campaign. He served as Solicitor General of Texas from 2003 to May 2008, after being appointed by Texas Attorney General Greg Abbott.

You don't get to be a part of an administration if you don't know who's who in the political arena. This idea that Cruz came out of the woodwork in 2012 is wrong, and ignorant.


The "degrees of evil" and "degrees of crazy" is arbitrary nonsense.

[RandomGuy]

IMO, there's nothing crazy about Cruz... he's a seasoned politician that has been part of an administration, his message is tailored to a certain fringe, but it's really no different than Barry campaigning on women's equality, closing Gitmo or ending wars (the latter earned him criticism about not being fit to be a CIC). Barry turned out to be full of shit, don't really expect any different from Cruz. He's unelectable because his message is largely tailored strictly to that fringe, but I think that's just part of a strategy for him.

The bailout was way more than it needed to be. It's ok to bail out select banks to prevent a run, but bailing AIG? No criminal charges for what amounted to criminal behavior? There's plenty of Pelosi rants about big banks, but when she had to put her money where her mouth was, she tucked tails.

:lol what compromise? IIRC, there was a single GOP vote on both the House and Senate. That's not compromise, that's ramming shit through. Let's see the vote count, this "compromise" you're talking about.

Now that he's in the minority, Reid's favorite tool is the filibuster. Imagine that. As a centrist, I love compromise, but it's largely not happening right now. We're at a high level of polarization, and IMO, it's been damaging to the nation. This us vs them mentality is killing us.

AIG required a bailout, because their investment arm was backstopping the banks' bets. You can bet their regulators have clamped down on that.

[ElNono]

AIG required a bailout, because their investment arm was backstopping the banks' bets. You can bet their regulators have clamped down on that.

But it didn't. The rationale that all the bad bets needed to be bailed out is what's baffling to me. The government simply needed to step in and, on a case by case basis, provide select banks enough liquidity to prevent a run. The government primary interest needs to be on the citizen's wellbeing. There was no reason to bail out the banks or insurers on the, arguably, criminal gambling they did with depositor's money. At the very least, the bailout needed to include criminal penalties for those found to have caused such a massive breakdown on the financial system. But, for obvious reasons, there was no such thing.

At any rate, I feel we're going on a tangent and away from what I trying to convey:

When Teddy Cruz talks about the founding fathers and the Constitution, just remember he was part of the Alberto Gonzales, John Yoo, et all Department of Justice that took a wet shit on the Constitution. Similarly, when he rails about "King Obama" and the excesses of executive power, don't forget that he was part of an administration that expanded executive power to unprecedented levels.

That's why, in my opinion, Cruz simply pays lip service to a very specific target. In a sense, it's not a whole lot different than any other politico hitting on certain talking points, it's just that some of the points he's hitting are very partisan (and thus, vitriolic), so it's no surprise the "crazy" card gets pulled. If he's looking to win the nomination or a presidency in this cycle, I think it's a terrible strategy. If he's looking to simply build his base support for a later presidential run, then the strategy makes more sense.

[Nbadan]

back on topic..

Source: Reuters


While still unable to agree on a budget, Kansas lawmakers on Saturday averted a furlough of thousands of non-essential employees by passing a bill defining all employees as essential, officials said.

Republican Governor Sam Brownback said in a statement posted on his website that he will sign the bill so that state services can continue working uninterrupted.

The Kansas House and Senate have been in session for more than two weeks past the usual adjournment date while trying to make up a $400 million deficit for the budget year that begins on July 1.

Income tax cuts engineered by Brownback and approved by the Republican-dominated legislature three years ago have created revenue shortfalls. The governor said the cuts would help Kansas compete with bordering Missouri and other states to draw business.

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/kansas-averts-furloughs-thousands-state-employees-000814557--business.html

[boutons_deux]

Repugs proving they can govern! :lol

[boutons_deux]

The "degrees of evil" and "degrees of crazy" is arbitrary nonsense.

Krazy Kruz is a religious extremist, running for the Presidency of a hate-filled Jesus.

Voted no for blue-state Sandy aid, but said politics shouldn't get in the way of aid for his insanely red state TX.

I'll his academic record says he's very smart (unlike Gohmert or the TX Bartons), so the shit he spews is the worst kind of hateful, evil demagoguery, right down there with Beck and Alex Jones.

and he's a very hard working FRESHMAN Senator:

"On one side of the spectrum in the Senate there is Sen. Susan Collins of Maine, who has not missed a vote since taking office in 1997. At the opposite end are Ted Cruz of Texas and Marco Rubio of Florida.

The two Republican presidential candidates' attendance records when it comes to Senate votes and attending hearings are some of lowest in the chamber, with Cruz being especially negligent as a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee.

Cruz has missed the majority of committee hearings and now ranks 97th in the first three months of this year in showing up for roll call votes on the floor.

According to a report from Politico late last month, Cruz missed out on discussions about Afghanistan, the U.S. military prison at Guantánamo Bay, spending cuts, military readiness and the appropriate level of compensation for the troops.

Cruz was also the only senator absent on Wednesday when the Senate voted 99-0 to pass a compromise human trafficking bill that ended a contentious fight over federal abortion funding restrictions that had stalled the confirmation vote on attorney general nominee Loretta Lynch."

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2015/04/23/absentee-ballot-ted-cruz-no-show-at-most-committee-meetings-floor-votes/

yep, Krazy Kruz doing the freshman senator's grunt work he was elected to do by fucking Krazy TX rednecks, racists, Bible humpers.

[Nbadan]

Kansas lawmakers raise state sales taxes to balance budget
Source: Reuters


Kansas lawmakers raised the state sales tax on Friday to help balance the budget and cover a projected $400 million deficit in the wake of three years of income tax cuts pushed by Governor Sam Brownback.

The increase in the sales tax to 6.50 percent, from the current 6.15 percent, would raise $400 million in revenue. Taxes on cigarettes would increase by 50 cents per pack to $1.29.

Brownback, a Republican, praised the bill in a statement shortly after it passed but stopped short of saying he will sign it. The governor on Thursday threatened to make steep spending cuts on Monday if lawmakers did not pass the budget after meeting for nearly three weeks past their usual adjournment.

"This bill keeps the state on a path of economic growth, creating well-paying jobs that benefit all Kansans," said Brownback. "It continues our transition from taxes on productivity to consumption-based taxes and provides a mechanism for reducing income tax rates for all our citizens."

Read more: http://news.yahoo.com/kansas-lawmakers-raise-state-sales-taxes-balance-budget-015606635--business.html

if it's a regressive tax, then its ok.....

[Nbadan]

What can we learn from Kansas?


Three years ago, Kansas’ conservative government — led by Republican Gov. Sam Brownback — made a bet: cut taxes on the wealthy, and the economy will grow enough to make up for the lost revenue. Spoiler alert: it hasn’t worked out — as I write this, the Legislature is frantically trying to close a $350 million budget hole — but the policy has failed in an informative direction.

There are two clear takeaways: first, supply-side economics didn’t even work with the deck stacked in its favor, and second, we’re seeing what happens when supply-side tax cuts on the rich fail to produce badly needed revenue. The end result is that the wealthy get to keep their tax cuts and everyone else gets to close the gap.

The idea that states are laboratories for democracy has always suffered from a rarely acknowledged weakness: because such policy experiments take place at the state level, the results are often useless to policy makers in other contexts. This isn’t universally true; some of the best research in America is being done by organizations that help local governments design policies so researchers can see if the policy worked after the fact.

However, a lot of the “experiments” we hear about are too poorly set up to “prove” anything.

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/what-can-we-learn-from-kansas-2015-06-10

Wealthy Kansans got a tax cut that blew up the budget, then the rest of the state got tax increases to help fill the hole. The state also cut funding for schools and higher education, among other public needs, possibly by so much it violates the state constitution.

[Winehole23]

believe it or not, that's a selling point. people hate government, period.

contempt for public priorities like education and health care reflects that.

[boutons_deux]

believe it or not, that's a selling point. people hate government, period.

contempt for public priorities like education and health care reflect that.

how many "govt haters" EVER have to "deal with" govt other than paying taxes? the "hate govt" / "lets destroy govt" propaganda is a VRWC strategy to fuck up govt, to make people hate govt (cut $1B from IRS, then people this year could't get IRS to answer the phones), so the VRWC can eliminate the only power than can restrain the VRWC.

[Winehole23]

how many "govt haters" EVER have to "deal with" govt other than paying taxes?depends on whether you're talking about Federal or the State level. the fingers of the State rummage much more thoroughly than the Federal ones, once all the fees, fines and penalties have been tallied.

[Winehole23]

short answer, everybody deals with it. everybody is touched administratively by state power in some way or another.

[boutons_deux]

America’s worst governor backs down: Sam Brownback’s Kansas tax cutting model tarnished after sales tax raised

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/14/kansas_tax_cutting_model_tarnished_after_sales_tax _raised/

Of course! Raise the highly regressive sales tax to screw the 47% while leaving BigCorp and 1% tax cuts untouched.

And there's AG Kobach, frustrated that local DAs didn't sue any fraudulent voters, will now bring the suits himself, with severe penalties "IF" convicted. Pure voter suppression via intimidation.

[RandomGuy]

But it didn't. The rationale that all the bad bets needed to be bailed out is what's baffling to me. The government simply needed to step in and, on a case by case basis, provide select banks enough liquidity to prevent a run. The government primary interest needs to be on the citizen's wellbeing. There was no reason to bail out the banks or insurers on the, arguably, criminal gambling they did with depositor's money. At the very least, the bailout needed to include criminal penalties for those found to have caused such a massive breakdown on the financial system. But, for obvious reasons, there was no such thing.

One thing I can assure you of, is that AIG's regulators are paying a LOT more attention to their investment portfolio and goings on in the holding company system.

Remember this isn't the federal government overseeing it, it is state regulators. Banks get their choice of who regulates them, and they generally organize so they get the least obtrusive obtrusive agency, a "race to the bottom" of regulators. Insurance companies don't have that luxury.

The thing you are missing that is baffling you is the interlinking of assets, and systemic risk.

If you don't backstop one, you simply get a series of dominoes that fall, one after the other, in a rather cataclysmic self-feeding cycle.

Problem still hasn't been solved, but if you want to put citizens' well-being first and foremost, keeping the banking system from imploding is right up there.

[RandomGuy]

America’s worst governor backs down: Sam Brownback’s Kansas tax cutting model tarnished after sales tax raised

http://www.salon.com/2015/06/14/kansas_tax_cutting_model_tarnished_after_sales_tax _raised/

Of course! Raise the highly regressive sales tax to screw the 47% while leaving BigCorp and 1% tax cuts untouched.

And there's AG Kobach, frustrated that local DAs didn't sue any fraudulent voters, will now bring the suits himself, with severe penalties "IF" convicted. Pure voter suppression via intimidation.



Saw that.

Essentially they cut taxes on the wealthy (income based) .. and raised it on poor people (sales tax based).

[ElNono]

One thing I can assure you of, is that AIG's regulators are paying a LOT more attention to their investment portfolio and goings on in the holding company system.

Remember this isn't the federal government overseeing it, it is state regulators. Banks get their choice of who regulates them, and they generally organize so they get the least obtrusive obtrusive agency, a "race to the bottom" of regulators. Insurance companies don't have that luxury.

Both AIG and GE Capital were tagged "systemically important" after the last crash and are being actively regulated by the FSOC, run by the treasury. Same with banks. But there are legitimate questions as to whether the overseers, state or federal, can actually prevent these companies from gambling again if there's nothing written in law to stop them.


The thing you are missing that is baffling you is the interlinking of assets, and systemic risk.

If you don't backstop one, you simply get a series of dominoes that fall, one after the other, in a rather cataclysmic self-feeding cycle.

Problem still hasn't been solved, but if you want to put citizens' well-being first and foremost, keeping the banking system from imploding is right up there.

I'm pessimistic that the powers that be are interested. It's borderline impossible, IMO, that the Treasury and Fed weren't aware of the bubble that ended up bursting in '08. It's possible they didn't think it would get THAT out of hand, but there's no way they were not privvy of what was going on.

[FromWayDowntown]

Really interesting separation of powers issue starting to percolate in Kansas, too, related to Brownback's economic policies in a sense:

Governor Brownback and his legislative allies have enacted legislation that ties the funding of the Kansas judiciary to its rulings on challenges to another bill -- if the Supreme Court sides with Brownback and upholds the law (which basically stripped the Supreme Court of significant powers with regard to the oversight of the lower courts), the judiciary will keep its funding, but if the Supreme Court strikes down Brownback's law, the judiciary loses its funding and will functionally cease to exist.


The fight between Gov. Sam Brownback of Kansas and the state’s judicial branch has escalated, with the governor last week signing into law a bill that could strip state courts of their funding.

The measure, at the end of a lengthy bill that allocated money for the judiciary this year, stipulates that if a state court strikes down a 2014 law that removed some powers from the State Supreme Court, the judiciary will lose its funding.

* * * *

The very same state court system that will be affected by the 2014 law will decide whether the law is constitutional. The Brennan Center, which is representing Judge Larry T. Solomon, the chief judge of Kingman County in south-central Kansas, has argued that the law violates a provision of the State Constitution that says the Supreme Court “shall have general administrative authority over all courts in this state.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/us/courts-budget-intensifies-kansas-dispute-over-powers.html?_r=0

It's described similarly in the Wall Street Journal:


Kanas Gov. Sam Brownback has signed legislation that would eliminate funding for the state’s courts if they overturn a contentious law passed last year, a move experts described as an unprecedented display of legislative power.

The 2014 law, pushed by Republicans, stripped the Kansas Supreme Court of the power to appoint chief judges for the lower courts. A Kansas judge has sued to block it. Legal experts said the law signed late Thursday is likely the first instance of lawmakers tying a judicial budget to the outcome of a legal case.

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2015/06/05/kansas-passes-law-linking-court-funding-to-judicial-rulings/

The efforts to divest the Supreme Court of power appear to have arisen from the fact that the Court refused to just go along with the tax cuts and reductions in spending, ruling in 2014 that school funding could not be decreased as much as it had:


Since Republican Sam Brownback became governor of Kansas in 2011, he and his allies in the GOP-dominated state Legislature have implemented drastic tax cuts—part of a "real, live experiment" in conservative governance, as Brownback put it in 2012, that has resulted in precipitously falling revenues. But Brownback's tax slashing hit a snag last year when the state Supreme Court ordered the Legislature to increase education funding, potentially forcing the governor to roll back his signature tax cuts in order to increase school spending. So conservatives in Topeka declared war on the court.

In the year since the court's education decision in March 2014, conservatives in the Kansas Legislature have proposed giving the governor more power to pick state Supreme Court justices and making it easier to remove justices from the bench. They've voted to strip the state's top court of its authority over lower courts and threatened to defund state courts if they rule against the Legislature in a key case. The escalating power struggle between the state's three branches of government has put Kansas "on a direct collision course to a constitutional crisis," says Ryan Wright, executive director of Kansans for Fair Courts, a nonprofit dedicated to keeping partisan politics out of the judicial selection process in Kansas.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2015/05/final-front-sam-brownbacks-battle-control-kansas

Obviously, if the executive and legislative can effectively tie the funding of the judiciary to obtaining particular results on favored pieces of legislation, the judiciary loses its independence and cannot function as a check on the other branches, which is to say that it cannot perform the very function that it is fundamentally intended to serve. I'm not here to say that Brownback's laws should or should not be upheld; that's an issue for Kansans. If Brownback wants to exert political pressure to get outcomes, I think that's probably okay too, but I don't think that pressure can come in the form of defunding a coequal branch of the government.

The issue for me is really how the separation of powers battle is resolved. It will be fascinating to see where this goes and how the Court responds -- likely with a lawsuit that disputes the constitutionality of tying funding to the outcomes of cases and likely under the Guarantee Clause of Article IV of the US Constitution, which raises its own sets of federalism concerns.

[boutons_deux]

"the judiciary loses its independence"

elected judges aren't independent, they're corrupt until proven otherwise.

Can stinky Brownbutt and his Repug accomplices extorting judicial rulings be resolved in state, or can it be appealed to Federal jurisdiction?

[FromWayDowntown]

"the judiciary loses its independence"

elected judges aren't independent, they're corrupt until proven otherwise.

Can stinky Brownbutt and his Repug accomplices extorting judicial rulings be resolved in state, or can it be appealed to Federal jurisdiction?




I'm not sure that Kansas has purely partisan elections for its judges, but I'm not talking about independence in the sense that you are here. Regardless of its ideological bent, a court has to be able to function free of any interference from the other branches, and must (in that sense) be free from extortion by budgeting, particularly where funding is predicated entirely on outcomes. In any event, the Kansas Supreme Court has been willing to strike down some of Brownback's efforts, so the partisanship that you're concerned about is actually somewhat balanced (for now) in Kansas.

As for resolving the constitutional issue that this all seems to present, I don't see how the judiciary of a state could rule on the constitutionality of a rule that affects that judiciary; there is a clear conflict of interest there, which should necessitate resort to the federal judiciary for a resolution. And it won't be appealed to the federal judiciary -- it will almost certainly begin there and work its way through the federal courts (though it's possible (I haven't checked) that this sort of question could invoke the original jurisdiction of the Supreme Court).

[Splits]

tlongII once again proven to be a hack while everyone who told him he was wrong is proven right. Again

these faggots never learn

[tlongII]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinquefield/2015/05/04/kansas-economic-growth-is-on-the-rebound-look-at-the-real-numbers/

Kansas Economic Growth Is On The Rebound--Look At The Real Numbers

When Kansas Governor Sam Brownback enacted his bold approach to tax reform, he gave a much-needed boost to small businesses throughout the state. Thanks to Brownback’s tax cuts, these businesses can make greater investments, hire more employees, and set themselves on a more stable course toward the future. Considering that 44 percent of working Kansans are employed by small businesses, the Brownback tax cuts positively impact thousands of families.

Unfortunately, no good deed goes unpunished, with outlets like the Kansas City Star questioning the wisdom and efficacy of the cuts. The Star’s editorial board published a column downplaying the positive impact the cuts have had on the state’s small businesses and expressing skepticism about Kansas’ ability to draw in business from states with higher tax burdens. In an excellent rebuttal to the Star’s editorial, the Kansas Policy Institute outlines the problematic nature of their claims. While successful growth is typically measured in the number of private-sector jobs created, the Star instead uses (but does not disclose this fact) nonfarm jobs – in other words, the total of government and private sector jobs.

Additionally, as the KPI paper rightly points out, the Star uses point-to-point comparisons to make its case, comparing Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers from January 2014 and January 2015. A more reasoned and accurate approach is to look at average annual employment numbers (which the BLS also publishes), in order to mitigate the impact of any single large spike or decline. Looking at these bigger-picture numbers, we see that Kansas nonfarm jobs grew by 2.4 percent between December 2012 and January 2015. In Missouri during the same timeframe, nonfarm jobs increased by 1.9 percent. This more stable, accurate comparison of average annual employment reveals Kansas to be growing faster than Missouri – whether you use nonfarm or private-sector employment figures.

Also, since Brownback’s tax reform, private-sector GDP has increased in Kansas. The Tax Foundation shows Kansas outperforming the 50-state average in 2013 (the numbers for 2014 aren’t yet available), as well as far outperforming the ten states with the highest state and local tax burden. In the fourteen years prior to tax reform, Kansas lagged behind.

Kansans should be celebrating their state’s strides. The growth of small businesses in Kansas is at an annual rate of 6 percent – higher than the national average and higher than the growth in any neighboring states, including Missouri. In the 2013 tax year, more than 8,600 first-time small-business filers invigorated the state’s economy with more than $486 million in new income.

As Governor Brownback himself stated this week: “Our goal, as a state, should be growing an economy that provides opportunity and jobs for all Kansans. A tax policy that puts more money in the hands of working Kansans and that rewards productivity is resulting in growth in Kansas, without question.”

Leaders in other states should be inspired by the small business and employment gains in Kansas as they examine their own state tax policies and determine which reform options will work best in their own home states.

[Splits]

Oh gee, a tlongII article from 6 weeks ago. Meanwhile in the real world, they're raising taxes on the poor to pay for the income taxes for the wealthy.

Kansas’ regressive approach to redistributing wealth

06/16/15 09:27 AM—UPDATED 06/16/15 09:28 AM




By Steve Benen (http://www.msnbc.com/byline/steve-benen)

There are two main problems with Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback’s (R) far-right economic experiment. The first is that the plan didn’t work (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/the-real-world-effects-brownbacks-kansas-experiment) – it didn’t create the promised jobs boom; it didn’t create massive growth; and it didn’t cause businesses to stampede into the state.

The second problem is the challenge of dealing with the consequences of failure. The Republican governor’s plan, after causing a debt downgrade, left a significant hole (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/kansas-eyes-redistributing-wealth-the-wrong-direction) in Kansas’ state budget, which GOP policymakers have struggled badly to fill.

A few days ago, however, the Republican-run state government grudgingly approved (http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article23831500.html) a new budget, which actually included tax increases. Reluctant lawmakers said Brownback hadn’t left them much of a choice – Brownback effectively told the state legislature to raise sales taxes and cigarette taxes or he’d slash funding even more on education and disability services.

From a distance, it might seem as if this were a liberal solution to a conservative problem – Kansas Republicans got themselves in a jam by cutting taxes too much, and to put things right, they decided to start raising taxes to fix the problem. But the details matter and that’s not quite right.

The Kansas City Star’s Dave Helling explained (http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article24020830.html) it’s not just a matter of asking Kansans to pay more – it’s a question of which Kansans will pay more.
[N]o group, experts believe, gets hurt more than the state’s low- and moderate-income workers, those earning between $30,000 and $50,000 a year. They now face higher taxes on essential purchases without most of the subsidies that protect poorer Kansans from government’s bite.

Low-income workers, unlike those with significantly higher earnings, must watch their pennies carefully to pay for other essentials such as transportation and housing. Soon, more of those pennies – which quickly grow to dollars – will be on their way to Topeka.

Let’s call this what it is: a redistribution of wealth, from the bottom up. Kansas is keeping its tax breaks for the wealthy, while approving tax increases – by some measures, “the largest tax increase in state history (http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article23850511.html)” – that will disproportionately affect those at the bottom.


This may seem counter-intuitive. After all, everyone will pay the same sales taxes, regardless of income, so conservatives may see this as equitable and fair.

But it’s not. As a Washington Post piece (http://www.washingtonpost.com/kansas-lawmakers-want-the-poor-to-pay-for-tax-cuts-for-the-rich/2015/04/21/98f8f578-b261-4519-82da-8126926649ad_story.html) recently explained, “People who make less are more vulnerable to increases in sales and excise taxes, since they spend more of their money buying basic goods and services they need to get by. This is especially the case in Kansas, where food is subject to sales tax. Kansans can receive a tax rebate for their food purchases, but those who make nothing or too little to owe income tax aren’t eligible. They pay the sales tax on food in full.”

And now, Kansas has one of the highest, most regressive food taxes in the nation (http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article24020830.html).

Congratulations, Kansas. You appear to be living in a Dickensian nightmare.

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinquefield/2015/05/04/kansas-economic-growth-is-on-the-rebound-look-at-the-real-numbers/

Kansas Economic Growth Is On The Rebound--Look At The Real Numbers

When Kansas Governor Sam Brownback enacted his bold approach to tax reform, he gave a much-needed boost to small businesses throughout the state. Thanks to Brownback’s tax cuts, these businesses can make greater investments, hire more employees, and set themselves on a more stable course toward the future. Considering that 44 percent of working Kansans are employed by small businesses, the Brownback tax cuts positively impact thousands of families.

Unfortunately, no good deed goes unpunished, with outlets like the Kansas City Star questioning the wisdom and efficacy of the cuts. The Star’s editorial board published a column downplaying the positive impact the cuts have had on the state’s small businesses and expressing skepticism about Kansas’ ability to draw in business from states with higher tax burdens. In an excellent rebuttal to the Star’s editorial, the Kansas Policy Institute outlines the problematic nature of their claims. While successful growth is typically measured in the number of private-sector jobs created, the Star instead uses (but does not disclose this fact) nonfarm jobs – in other words, the total of government and private sector jobs.

Additionally, as the KPI paper rightly points out, the Star uses point-to-point comparisons to make its case, comparing Bureau of Labor Statistics numbers from January 2014 and January 2015. A more reasoned and accurate approach is to look at average annual employment numbers (which the BLS also publishes), in order to mitigate the impact of any single large spike or decline. Looking at these bigger-picture numbers, we see that Kansas nonfarm jobs grew by 2.4 percent between December 2012 and January 2015. In Missouri during the same timeframe, nonfarm jobs increased by 1.9 percent. This more stable, accurate comparison of average annual employment reveals Kansas to be growing faster than Missouri – whether you use nonfarm or private-sector employment figures.

Also, since Brownback’s tax reform, private-sector GDP has increased in Kansas. The Tax Foundation shows Kansas outperforming the 50-state average in 2013 (the numbers for 2014 aren’t yet available), as well as far outperforming the ten states with the highest state and local tax burden. In the fourteen years prior to tax reform, Kansas lagged behind.

Kansans should be celebrating their state’s strides. The growth of small businesses in Kansas is at an annual rate of 6 percent – higher than the national average and higher than the growth in any neighboring states, including Missouri. In the 2013 tax year, more than 8,600 first-time small-business filers invigorated the state’s economy with more than $486 million in new income.

As Governor Brownback himself stated this week: “Our goal, as a state, should be growing an economy that provides opportunity and jobs for all Kansans. A tax policy that puts more money in the hands of working Kansans and that rewards productivity is resulting in growth in Kansas, without question.”

Leaders in other states should be inspired by the small business and employment gains in Kansas as they examine their own state tax policies and determine which reform options will work best in their own home states.The tax cuts worked so well, they had to raise taxes.

[ElNono]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinquefield/2015/05/04/kansas-economic-growth-is-on-the-rebound-look-at-the-real-numbers/

Kansas Economic Growth Is On The Rebound--Look At The Real Numbers

:lmao the comments section on that article

[Splits]

:lmao the comments section on that article

:lol was there one positive comment? I love how the author fails to respond to any of them.

[Spurminator]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/where-republicans-went-wrong-in-kansas/396398/?utm_source=SFFB


According to various reports (http://www.kansascity.com/news/government-politics/article23831500.html) from the state capital (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/13/us/gridlock-over-deficit-is-broken-in-kansas.html), several lawmakers cast their votes in tears, one Republican accused the governor’s administration of blackmail, and exactly no one thought the plan actually solved the state’s longterm budget woes. “Next year will be my 40th year in the Legislature, and I have never seen a session like this one,” Anthony Hensley, who leads the Senate’s small contingent of Democrats, told me by phone on Friday. “It was completely chaotic and dysfunctional.”

All that new revenue, along with about $50 million in spending cuts, was needed to close a deep deficit that had embarrassed its conservative governor and thrown its legislature into a months-long gridlock that resembled, well, Congress. As we wrote in April (http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/04/kansass-failed-experiment/389874/), the deficit resulted in large part from Brownback’s own “real live experiment” in supply-side economics—sharp cuts in income tax rates and a huge exemption for owners of small businesses.

Ask any fiscal expert, and Kansas’s budget crisis demanded a reckoning—either with its tax code or its longterm spending structure. But its government wasn’t up to it. Aligned with conservatives in the Senate, Brownback steadfastly refused to consider a direct reversal of the original tax plan, insisting that the state continue on its path toward replacing the income tax entirely with consumption taxes. The most he would do was freeze the rates, and the result was a plan that will place an even heavier tax burden on the poor, according to the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (http://www.taxjusticeblog.org/archive/2015/06/and_thats_a_wrapthe_failed_exp.php#.VYRqz1VVikr). Hensley said that when state and local sales taxes are combined, Kansas will have the highest tax on food in the nation in some areas of the state. Brownback, who had hired the economist Arthur Laffer to help craft his original tax plan, had been touting the state’s economic recovery to argue that his fiscal vision was starting to work. But a report released Friday (http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/yael-t-abouhalkah/article24965164.html) found that Kansas had lost nearly 4,000 jobs in May, trailing both the national trend and neighboring Missouri, which added 6,600 jobs.

[boutons_deux]

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/06/where-republicans-went-wrong-in-kansas/396398/?utm_source=SFFB


[/COLOR]

yawn, Repugs creating an ideological dystopia, and DENYING the facts that they fucked up.

trickle down: enrich the 1%, screw the 99%, never has worked, doesn't work, never will work.

resulting deficits to be filled with highly regressive taxes.

Consumption tax is very probably only RETAIL sales tax, not VAT added at each stage between source and retail, giving a break to businesses.

[ElNono]

Brownback, who had hired the economist Arthur Laffer to help craft his original tax plan...

crofl, the same Art Laffer that's having his "independent" minions write OPed's on WSJ touting how the plan "works"...

[RandomGuy]

I'm pessimistic that the powers that be are interested. It's borderline impossible, IMO, that the Treasury and Fed weren't aware of the bubble that ended up bursting in '08. It's possible they didn't think it would get THAT out of hand, but there's no way they were not privvy of what was going on.

Again, I can assure you that the powers that be are VERY, VERY interested in AIG's investments.

The problem is that these companies get really, really big, and that complexity becomes a risk in and of itself.

AIG actually, at one point, made eyeglasses and shoes, although the CEO never knew that, because it was buried so far down in the org chart.

[boutons_deux]

Gov. Brownback Caught Shielding Gun-Nut, Neighbor-Terrorizing Brother from Criminal Charges (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/10/1410396/-Gov-Brownback-Caught-Shielding-Gun-Nut-Neighbor-Terrorizing-Brother-from-Criminal-Charges)


https://farm1.staticflickr.com/362/20253492020_05f25acc82.jpg

From The Topeka Capital-Journal: (http://cjonline.com/news/2015-08-08/sam-brownbacks-brother-accused-terrorizing-rural-neighbors)


On the night of Nov. 4, 2012, a hail of gunfire cascaded from inside a large truck surging by the Peines’ home. While a sheriff’s deputy was collecting shotgun and .223-caliber ballistics evidence soon after in the darkness, the same truck cruised past the house.

The driver fled as the deputy followed in pursuit with lights flashing.

A second deputy blocked the road with a patrol car to end the chase.The Linn County law enforcement report on the incident said a “noticeably intoxicated” Brownback leapt out through one of the truck’s back doors.

He informed officers nobody in the vehicle had a shotgun.

The report says the driver, 20-year-old Tyler Agler, revealed a pair of shotguns were in the cab.

Agler was Kara Jo Earnest's (Jim Brownback's step-daughter) boyfriend.
...
Despite assurances by Linn County Undersheriff Greg Jackson of certain prosecution of Jim Brownback, Joann Peine said she was eventually told by the sheriff’s department that evidence in the case had been “lost.”

Jim Brownback sounds like a complete nightmare.

According to the article, his niche as a farmer is buying diseased or otherwise infirm animals, insuring the ones that don't survive and reselling the few that recover for meat. There's a story from a neighbor of his leaving a sick bull dying for days, doing nothing to either comfort it, or put it out of its misery, saying something like, "insurance will cover it."

He outright stole two cows from another neighbor.

Jim Brownback told an area acquaintance he was under orders not to threaten or intimidate his neighbors, at least until his brother Sam's re-election campaign had ended.

Low and behold, on midnight of Election Day, Jim started firing guns at his neighbor's home, every five minutes, like clockwork.

He also admitted to filling jars with an explosive called Tannerite, and using them for target practice - creating massive explosions on his property.

He once scattered nails on his neighbor's driveway, another time blocked it with heavy farm equipment, and yet another time left a dead deer there.

Jim Brownback also likely killed his neighbor's dog, who was found dead in a ditch fifteen miles from the home.

Perhaps, thanks to this stunning expose, Sam will no longer be able to protect his monster brother.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/10/1410396/-Gov-Brownback-Caught-Shielding-Gun-Nut-Neighbor-Terrorizing-Brother-from-Criminal-Charges?detail=email

[SpursforSix]

Gov. Brownback Caught Shielding Gun-Nut, Neighbor-Terrorizing Brother from Criminal Charges (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/08/10/1410396/-Gov-Brownback-Caught-Shielding-Gun-Nut-Neighbor-Terrorizing-Brother-from-Criminal-Charges)


From The Topeka Capital-Journal: (http://cjonline.com/news/2015-08-08/sam-brownbacks-brother-accused-terrorizing-rural-neighbors)


On the night of Nov. 4, 2012, a hail of gunfire cascaded from inside a large truck surging by the Peines’ home.




LOL. Anagram alert!!!!
oh crap. either short an "s" or have one too many "e"s.

[CosmicCowboy]

Livestock insurance doesn't cover death by disease or natural causes.

[boutons_deux]

The Brownback Crash Continues in Kansas


Menzie Chinn updates us today (http://econbrowser.com/archives/2015/08/kansas-the-macro-outlook) on how things are going in Sam Brownback's Kansas. Answer: not so good.


http://www.motherjones.com/files/blog_kansas_brownback_crash.jpg

The chart on the right compares Kansas to the rest of the country using coincident indexes, an aggregate measure of economic performance tracked monthly by the Philadelphia Fed. It consists of the following four measures:


Nonfarm payroll employment
Average hours worked in manufacturing
Unemployment rate
Wage and salary disbursements deflated by the consumer price index


The index is set to 100 at the beginning of 2011, when Gov. Brownback took office. Brownback instituted an aggressive program of tax cuts and budget reductions, promising that this supply-side intervention would supercharge the state's economy. But the reality has been rather different. Kansas has underperformed the US economy ever since Brownback was elected.

Why is that? Is the Fed using the wrong employment data? Chinn says no: "The decline shows up regardless of whether employment is measured using the establishment or household surveys."

Is it the weather? "Drought does not seem to be an explanation to me."

How about the poor performance of the aircraft industry? "Evidence from employment data is not supportive of this thesis."

So what is it?

"I would argue much of the downturn especially post January 2013 is self-inflicted, due to the fiscal policies implemented."

Surprise! I wonder if Kansans will ever figure this out?

http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2015/08/brownback-crash-continues-kansas

[boutons_deux]

Gov. Brownback Says Zombie Preparedness Month Starts Soon In Kansas


http://www.nationalmemo.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/2596483147_58d6bae3b1_z-668x501.jpg (http://www.nationalmemo.com/gov-brownback-says-zombie-preparedness-month-starts-soon-in-kansas/)

KANSAS CITY, Mo. — Absent a zombie apocalypse before then, Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback this week will sign a proclamation designating October as “Zombie Preparedness Month” in his state.

The ceremony is planned for Wednesday at the Capitol, a reminder of the need to be prepared for any emergency. Kansas Division of Emergency Management staff will be on hand.

“If you’re prepared for zombies, you’re prepared for anything,” Brownback said in a statement. “Although an actual zombie apocalypse will never happen, the preparation for such an event is the same as for any disaster: make a disaster kit, have a plan and practice it.”

http://www.nationalmemo.com/gov-brownback-says-zombie-preparedness-month-starts-soon-in-kansas/

[boutons_deux]

Kansas Misses Fourth Straight Projection as Revenue Enters Freefall (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/02/1443594/-Kansas-Misses-Fourth-Straight-Projection-as-Revenue-Enters-Freefall)

The Kansas budget had 'baked in' a leniency of $70M for missed projections, and with October's numbers in, Kansas has now broken the bank so to speak, as the $11M miss from revenue forecasts puts Kansas $72.3M below the budget.

This Friday, Kansas experts are expected to downgrade year over year forecasted revenue, which could be a body blow to a state that will need to rethink current strategy early within the legislative term.
http://cjonline.com/... (http://cjonline.com/news/state/2015-11-02/kansas-tax-revenue-tumbles-fourth-consecutive-month)

On Friday, analysts and economists from the Brownback administration, the Legislature and three state universities are expected to downgrade the revenue projection for the fiscal year ending June 30. The revised forecast becomes basis of the governor's new $6 billion budget plan to be delivered at outside of the next legislative session.

Jim Ward, Democratic House member from Wichita, Kansas highlighted the problem. "The budget disaster continues in Kansas. Governor Brownback refuses to recognize the fact that his tax plan is destroying the Kansas budget."The budget miss applies only to current projected budget as currently set, and does not react the the ongoing case before the Kansas Supreme Court regarding school funding. Plaintiffs in the Gannon case, who received a favorable ruling this summer, have asked the court to lift the stay in regards to their verdict (http://www.hdnews.net/news/local/plaintiffs-in-gannon-school-funding-case-ask-kansas-supreme-court/article_52ff167b-b022-5833-97e8-865ca4800e5c.html).

Should the court agree with the plaintiffs, the Kansas Budget would be found inadequate of the constitutional duty to fund schools and the continued forecast misses by the administration would put the state seriously behind revenue requirements to match obligation.

Once considered a Republican possibility in 2016, Brownback's Kansas instead is the Republican utopia no Republican Presidential candidate wants to touch or even mention, despite selling eerily similar economic advice to the nation as a whole.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/11/02/1443594/-Kansas-Misses-Fourth-Straight-Projection-as-Revenue-Enters-Freefall?detail=email

[boutons_deux]

Because Repugs love Wounded Warriors

U.S. Veteran's Children Taken Away Over His Use of Medical Marijuana

When Raymond Schwab talks about his case, his voice teeters between anger and sadness.

“People who don’t understand the medical value of cannabis are tearing my family apart,” says the Kansas father of five and US veteran, who has a prescription for marijuana in neighboring Colorado (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/colorado), where it is legal.

Nine months ago, Schwab tried to move to Colorado to grow medical marijuana for fellow veterans. While he and his wife were there preparing for the move, the state of Kansas (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/kansas) took their five children into custody on suspicion of child endangerment, ensnaring his family in interstate marijuana politics.

Cases like the Schwabs’ have become a lightning rod for marijuana activists and have left courts, family attorneys and Child Protective Services (CPS) unsure of where the lines are drawn in this brave new world of legalized cannabis.

“There’s still a stigma against parents who use medical marijuana,” says Jennifer Ani, a family law attorney who says she sees around five similar cases a month – in 95% of which she believes the child was in no reasonable danger. “As much as marijuana is a moving target throughout the nation, with Child Protective Services it’s even more so.”

She says that concerns about contact-highs or children eating raw cannabis are often cited but are not scientifically sound arguments that a child is in danger. Contact-highs have been widely discredited as a myth, and cannabis must be cooked before it can get you high.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/us-veterans-children-taken-away-over-his-use-medical-marijuana?akid=13941.187590.Nc-GBL&rd=1&src=newsletter1050050&t=16

[baseline bum]

LOL why not take kids away for second hand tobacco smoke too then?

[boutons_deux]

LOL why not take kids away for second hand tobacco smoke too then?

it's Kansas, logic is not sought or encouraged.

[Splits]

National jobs report exceeded expectations today adding over 240k. Meanwhile, in Republican paradise:


Horrible Kansas jobs report a new punch in gut to Gov. Sam Brownback

Kansas loses 4,000 jobs in January
State now has added only 1,400 jobs in last 12 months
Growth rate of 0.1 percent is one of worst in nation

The long-awaited January jobs report delivered a fresh batch of bad news Friday to Gov. Sam Brownback and Kansans.

The figures provide yet more proof that the income tax cuts Brownback signed in 2012 — and which took effect three years ago in January 2013 — are not working as he promised to boost employment.

Highlights of the huge new national jobs report from the state (https://klic.dol.ks.gov/admin/gsipub/htmlarea/uploads/LR%20Jan2016%20Release.pdf)and federal Bureau of Labor Statistics:

▪ Total nonfarm employment in the Sunflower State fell by 4,000 from December 2015 to January 2016.
▪ Kansas had only 1,400 more jobs this January than in January of 2015. That’s far short of Brownback’s goal of adding 25,000 more jobs a year during his second term.
▪ Overall, the annual growth rate in Kansas was a puny 0.1 percent from January 2015 to January 2016. That was one of the worst in the nation.
▪ U.S. job growth was a much healthier 1.9 percent over the January 2015 to January 2016 span.



:lol tlongII

[boutons_deux]

From bad to worse for Sam Brownback’s Kansas

In his first term, Brownback’s “experiment” led to debt downgrades, weak growth, and state finances in shambles. Perhaps the jobs picture is more heartening? Guess again. The Kansas City Star’s Yael Abouhalkah reported today (http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/yael-t-abouhalkah/article66848447.html) on the state’s latest job numbers.

Let this stunning news sink in: The Kansas jobs report released Friday shows the state lost another 1,900 jobs in February and now has 5,400 fewer jobs than it did one year ago.

That’s right: The Sunflower State had a “growth” rate of negative 0.4 percent from February 2015 to February 2016, the first time that’s happened in more than five years. That negative employment rate is one of the worst in the nation.


The same piece noted that, just a year ago during his re-election campaign, Brownback set a goal of 25,000 new jobs, per year, for a total of 100,000 new jobs in his second term. Eighteen months later, Kansas has created 1,600 jobs.

Put another way, the GOP governor set a projection of over 2,000 jobs per month. Since then, Kansas has created about 90 jobs per month.

It’s possible Brownback and his allies might want to blame President Obama’s economic policies, but at a national level, the job market looks very strong (http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/job-growth-picks-steam-economy-adds-242k-jobs-february) and unemployment has dropped to an eight-year low. The governor might be tempted to say his policies need more time, but his “experiment” started five years ago.

After Brownback signed the largest tax cut in state history, the Republican governor declared (http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2016/03/gop-must-answer-for-what-it-did-to-kansas.html), “My focus is to create a red-state model that allows the Republican ticket to say, ‘See, we’ve got a different way, and it works.’”

When GOP officials control the levers of power, and they’re able to implement the exact agenda that Republicans dream of, it’s certainly true that the “red-state model” represents a “different way.”

Why anyone would believe it “works,” however, is a mystery.

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/bad-worse-sam-brownbacks-kansas?cid=sm_fb_maddow

[boutons_deux]

Coup D’Tea: Kansas Republicans File Bill To Nullify Judicial Branch


Brownback and his extremist cohorts organized election challengers by upstart Tea Partiers against anyone in the legislator who dared stand against him, bankrolled by millions of dollars from the Koch Brothers’ Americans For Prosperity. This left him with a supermajority in the statehouse and nobody left to challenge him – except the state courts, which found in 2014 (http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/us/kansas-school-spending-ruling.html) that his devastating cuts to education were unconstitutional.

But the power of judicial oversight may soon be coming to an end as well.

State legislators have proposed Senate Bill 439, which would allow for “the impeachment of any Judge who acts contrary to the wishes of the legislature.”

consider that Brownback had framed his entire budget-wrecking rampage as an “experiment” to showcase the value of neoliberal extremism in contrast to President Obama’s“socialistic government overreach.” (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-kansas-tea-party-disaster-20141023)

http://occupydemocrats.com/2016/03/11/coup-dtea-kansas-republicans-file-bill-to-nullify-judicial-branch/

[boutons_deux]

A Closer Look at Kansas’ Tax Cuts

http://ritholtz.com/2016/03/a-closer-look-at-kansas-tax-cuts/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheBigPicture+%28The+Big+Pict ure%29

[boutons_deux]

Outraged by Kansas Justices’ Rulings, G.O.P. Seeks to Reshape Court

Look at the states, where political attacks on judicial decisions are common and well-financed attack ads are starting to jar the once-sleepy elections for State Supreme Court seats.

Nowhere is the battle more fiery than here in Kansas. Gov. Sam Brownback and other conservative Republicans have expressed outrage over State Supreme Court decisions that overturned death penalty verdicts (http://www.kansas.com/news/special-reports/carr-brothers/article55605895.html), blocked anti-abortion laws (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/23/us/kansas-court-of-appeals-voids-restrictive-2015-abortion-law.html) and hampered Mr. Brownback’s efforts to slash taxes and spending, and they are seeking to reshape a body they call unaccountable to the right-tilting public.

At one point, the L (http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article51272475.html)egislature threatened to suspend (http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article51272475.html) all funding (http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article51272475.html) for the courts. The Supreme Court, in turn, ruled in February that the state’s public schools must shut down (http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/12/us/court-gives-deadline-to-fix-kansas-school-financing.html?_r=0) altogether if poorer districts do not get more money by June 30.

“A political bullying tactic” and “an assault on Kansas families, taxpayers and elected appropriators,” is how the president of the Senate, Susan Wagle, a Republican, responded to that ruling, which was based on requirements in the state Constitution. Mr. Brownback spoke darkly of an “activist Kansas Supreme Court.”

In March, in the latest salvo, the Republican-controlled Senate passed a bill to authorize impeachment of justices (http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article64574032.html) if their decisions “usurp” the power of other branches. But the climactic battle is expected in the November elections, when conservatives hope to remake the seven-member Supreme Court in a flash, by unseating four justices regarded as moderate or liberal.

Partisan conflict over courts has erupted in many of the 38 states where justices are either directly elected or, as in Kansas, face periodic retention elections, without an opposing candidate. As conservatives in Washington attempt to preserve a majority on the federal Supreme Court, politically ascendant conservatives in several states are seeking to reshape courts that they consider to be overly liberal vestiges of eras past.

“We’ve seen this tug of war between courts and political branches all around the country,” said Alicia Bannon, a senior counsel at the Brennan Center for Justice (https://www.brennancenter.org/) at New York University.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/02/us/outraged-by-kansas-justices-rulings-gop-seeks-to-reshape-court.html?partner=rss&emc=rss

The strategy to fuck over the judicial system, at Federal and state levels, is fundamental to the VRWC/1%/BigCorp, going back decades.

And it's all done behind social/religious charades, and esp weaponizing the 1st and 2nd Amendments.

And Repugs call Obama "lawless"? :lol

No Law Is Above The Man

America is fucked and unfuckable, in permanent decline towards an all-powerful oligarch, a plutonomy, a kleptocracy.

[boutons_deux]

With Kansas In Crisis, GOPers Abandon Gov Brownback On Tax Cuts

After he became Kansas governor in 2011, Sam Brownback slashed personal income taxes on the promise that the deep cuts would trigger a furious wave of hiring and expansion by businesses.

But the "shot of adrenaline" hasn't worked as envisioned, and the state budget has been in crisis ever since. :lol

Now many of the same Republicans who helped pass Brownback's plan are in open revolt, refusing to help the governor cut spending so he can avoid rolling back any of his signature tax measures.

If Brownback won't reconsider any of the tax cuts, they say, he will have to figure out for himself how to balance the budget in the face of disappointing revenue.

"Let him own it," Republican Rep. Mark Hutton said. "It's his policy that put us there." :lol

Tax collections missed projections in 11 months of the last year. A growing number of Brownback's conservative allies want to scale back the tax cuts to ease the budget crunch.

Brownback took office on a pledge to make Kansas friendlier to business and successfully sought to

cut the top personal income tax rate by 29 percent and exempt more than 330,000 farmers and business owners from income taxes. :lol

The moves were popular in a Legislature where the GOP holds three-quarters of the seats.

The governor argued that Kansas had to attract more businesses after a "lost decade" in the early 2000s, when private sector employment declined more than 4 percent. :lol

The predicted job growth from business expansions hasn't happened, leaving the state persistently short of money.

Since November, tax collections have fallen about $81 million, or 1.9 percent below the current forecast's predictions.

"We're growing weary," said Senate President Susan Wagle, a conservative Republican from Wichita. While GOP legislators still support low income taxes, "we'd prefer to see some real solutions coming from the governor's office," she said.

Last month, Brownback ordered $17 million in immediate reductions to universities :loland earlier this month

delayed $93 million in contributions to pensions for school teachers and community college employees. :lol

The state has also siphoned off more than $750 million from highway projects to other parts of the budget over the past two years. :lol

Lawmakers are worried about approving any further reductions in an election year. All 40 Senate seats and 125 House seats are on the ballot in November.

Democrats have long described Brownback's tax cuts as reckless.

Republican critics want to repeal the personal income tax break for farmers and business owners to raise an additional $200 million to $250 million a year. :lol

Debate over the next budget will intensify after lawmakers return from a recess later this month. They could follow through on their threat by adjourning without making specific reductions and leaving the governor with the authority to do so. He faces fewer repercussions because he will not appear on the ballot again before leaving office in January 2019.

Brownback rejected earlier calls to scale back the tax cuts and shows no signs of backing down.

He declined to be interviewed about the lawmakers' unusual demand until new revenue projections are released Wednesday.

Spokeswoman Eileen Hawley said the governor will release proposals afterward for balancing the budget, but, "a plan to raise taxes on small businesses or anyone else will not be among them."

Brownback blames the economic sluggishness — the state ranked 43rd in total personal income growth in 2015 — on slumps in agriculture, energy production and aircraft manufacturing.

"You've got some global issues that are going on that we have absolutely no control over," Brownback told reporters at a recent news conference.

But Scott Drenkard, an economist for the conservative Tax Foundation, told legislators last month that

farmers and business owners appeared to pocket the extra money from the state's recent tax cuts rather than use it for expansion — "tax avoidance, not job creation." :lol

The state's personal income tax collections dropped 24 percent during its 2014 budget year, down $713 million. :lol

They've increased since, but the official projection for the 2017 fiscal year is less than $2.5 billion — still 15 percent off the 2013 peak.

Meanwhile, Kansas reported gaining only 800 private-sector jobs between March 2015 and March 2016, a mere 0.1 percent increase. :lol

Last year, legislators plugged part of the budget gap by increasing sales and cigarette taxes as part of a $400 million revenue-raising package. :lol

Brownback's administration has floated the idea of selling off the state's rights to future tobacco settlement payments, but lawmakers have been cold to such borrowing.

The continuing budget turmoil has been "just amateurish," said Republican Sen. Jim Denning, a former conservative ally of Brownback's who has become a critic. "I'm not happy with how things played out."

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/kansas-lawmakers-abandon-brownback-budget?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+tpm-news+%28TPMNews%29

Kock Bros/Conservative "trickle down", "tax cuts pay for themselves", "shot of adrenaline" ?

Proven yet again to be pure BULLSHIT.

Repug MISgovernance, what's not to ridicule? :lol

Jindal's LA is similarly financially fucked, Jindal replaced by a Dem (for now).

[boutons_deux]

Arthur Laffer ...

.. served as the architect of Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback’s (R) failed right-wing economic experiment, which destroyed state finances and did little to improve the state’s economy.

Laffer vowed that Brownback’s plan would generate “enormous prosperity,” which is largely the opposite of what’s actually happened.

When the the GOP governor’s agenda failed to deliver on any of the guaranteed results, Laffer was pressed for an explanation.

“Kansas is doing fine,” he boasted. :lol

http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/republican-economic-plan-gets-the-wrong-kind-endorsement?cid=sm_fb_maddow

[Nbadan]

Kansas governor eyes tobacco bonds for budget fix
Source: Reuters
Kansas governor eyes tobacco bonds for budget fix
April 20, 2016


(Reuters) - Kansas Governor Sam Brownback offered options on Wednesday for dealing with sinking revenue for the state's current and next budgets, including the sale of tobacco bonds.

With the fiscal 2016 revenue estimated to drop by nearly $94 million and fiscal 2017 revenue expected to be $134.7 million less than previously projected, the Republican governor said Kansas could raise about $158 million through its first sale of bonds backed by its share of a 1998 multi-state settlement with U.S. tobacco companies.

Several states and local governments have sold tobacco bonds with some using the proceeds as a one-time boost for their sagging budgets.

Brownback said he would also divert $185 million in sales tax revenue slated for the highway fund to the fiscal 2016 and 2017 general fund and continue a 3 percent university funding cut into fiscal 2017.

Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/news/kansas-governor-eyes-tobacco-bonds-budget-fix-010416580--business.html?nhp=1

[boutons_deux]

Kansas governor eyes tobacco bonds for budget fix
Source: Reuters
Kansas governor eyes tobacco bonds for budget fix
April 20, 2016



Read more: https://www.yahoo.com/news/kansas-governor-eyes-tobacco-bonds-budget-fix-010416580--business.html?nhp=1

"He added that he does not support a tax hike to patch up the budget."

Classic VRWC strategy = fuck America, now state by Repug/red/slave state.

[boutons_deux]

Kansas strips Planned Parenthood of state Medicaid funding, in violation of federal law (http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/5/4/1523056/-Kansas-strips-Planned-Parenthood-of-state-Medicaid-funding-in-violation-of-federal-law)

Just weeks after the Obama administration warned states (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/4/21/1518115/-Obama-administration-warns-states-about-cutting-Medicaid-funds-to-Planned-Parenthood) that their Medicaid funding would be jeopardized if they tried to defund Planned Parenthood, Kansas goes and does it—strips Planned Parenthood (http://kcur.org/post/kansas-strips-planned-parenthood-medicaid-funding#stream/0) of the state's portion of Medicaid funding.

Kansas isn't first state to try this, and courts have acted by blocking the clearly and unequivocally illegal defunding in four states. This move is a testament to how deeply committed Kanas Gov. Sam Brownback is to grinding his state into dust. As if it wasn't in a deep enough crisis, now the state's going to take on a very expensive lawsuit. All so Brownback could punish poor women just a little bit more.

http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/5/4/1523056/-Kansas-strips-Planned-Parenthood-of-state-Medicaid-funding-in-violation-of-federal-law

[boutons_deux]

What's The Matter With Kansas? Bible humpers, for one.

Mom who took kids to sing for Oregon militants claims biblical right to beat her children bloody

They testified Wednesday during a 2 1/2-hour hearing in Shawnee County that their mother, Odalis Sharp, beat them several times a week with a rod and belt, shoved soap in their mouths, called them names and slapped their faces and private parts.

A social worker also testified that Sharp refused to cooperate during a neglect investigation earlier this year and then during a follow-up report of emotional and physical abuse.

“They said it’s typical to always receive some type of bruising and other times have bled from the swats,” the social worker testified. “The children told me they were fearful. They did not want to return to their mother.”

A sheriff’s deputy testified that one boy who fled told investigators that his mother had beaten one sibling until the child’s nose bled — and continued to beat the child.

“He described a spanking that consisted of 47 swats,” the deputy testified. “He described that after 27 spankings, the child started to bleed from the nose, and 20 more spanks occurred after that.”

Sharp admitted to using a rod to punish her children.

“A lot of my friends know that I use a rod,” Sharp testified. “That is not a secret.”

“We need to turn to God, because the system is corrupt,” Sharp said. “They lie, they twist, they make false charges, they abuse people, and then they turn around and put people in prison, and then they accuse them of abuse.”

That’s pretty much what Sharp said the last time one of her children was removed from her care and placed into protective custody over previous abuse allegations.

Sharp said her son, then 15, had run away from home because he was unhappy with “the right, wholesome and pure path in which I was leading him — in which God was leading us.”

The single mother of 10 dragged seven of her children (http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/mom-accused-of-child-abuse-hauls-seven-kids-to-oregon-for-surreal-performance-before-armed-militants/) to the Malheur National Wildlife Preserve, where they sang patriotic and religious songs for the armed militants who took over the federally owned land and refused to leave until their anti-government demands were met.

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/05/mom-who-took-kids-to-sing-for-oregon-militants-claims-biblical-right-to-beat-her-children-bloody/

Does American Bible humping Christianity, like police work and prison work and BigFinance, make people mentally ill, and/or does it attract mentally ill people?

[RandomGuy]

National jobs report exceeded expectations today adding over 240k. Meanwhile, in Republican paradise:



:lol tlongII

:lmao tlongII The OP will go down in infamy, like "Romney will win a landslide"...

Talk about a total failure of an economic theory.

What does it say when a major political party stakes it's intellectual credibility on such a shitty idea, i.e. supply side economics?

SMFH

[Winehole23]

Let this stunning news sink in: After losing a whopping 3,700 jobs in April, Kansas now has lower total nonfarm employment than at any time since ... September 2014.


In addition, the new jobs figures out Friday from the state and federal governments show that Kansas had a “growth” rate of 0.0 percent over the 12 months, while losing 600 jobs since April 2015. That’s the seventh worst rate (http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/statewide_otm_oty_change.htm)in the entire country.


The horrible new jobs information continued a very bad week for Gov. Sam Brownback and Kansans.


On Wednesday, Brownback slashed another $97 million (http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article78450362.html)from the budget, in addition to diverting another $185 million from highway funds and delaying a $100 million state payment into the public employees’ pension plan.


These moves continued his reckless budget reductions (http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article78501942.html), mostly caused by the fact that his 2012 income tax cuts never have produced the jobs or new revenues Brownback promised four years ago.


On Friday, the Kansas Department of Labor did not mention any of this bad news in the top of its press release. Instead, it said that the Kansas unemployment rate had dropped to 3.8 percent from 3.9 percent in April.


Brownback apologists quickly pointed out the state had a meager gain of 800 private sector jobs. Again: Who cares? People with government jobs lost them, so total employment was down.


But others are doing far better than Kansas.


▪ Missouri added 37,100 jobs over the last year, for a growth rate of 1.3 percent. That was 33rd best in America. In March, the Show-Me State had posted the 11th worst rate in the nation with a 0.9 percent rate.


▪ U.S. employment has surged by 1.8 percent over the last 12 months. In fact, the nation has added 2.692 million jobs. Of that amount, Kansas accounts for a loss of 600 total jobs in that span.


▪ Idaho had the highest year-over-year growth rate of 3.8 percent, while Delaware was at 3.7 percent and Oregon at 3.5 percent.


▪ The worst states were North Dakota, with a negative growth rate of 3.8 percent and Wyoming at negative 3.7 percent.


The April news continued a bad string of months for the Sunflower State.


For example, the March numbers showed Kansas (http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/yael-t-abouhalkah/article72012847.html)with the seventh worst job growth rate for the previous 12 months at 0.0 percent.


Incredibly, the numbers had been even worse in February (http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/yael-t-abouhalkah/article66848447.html): The Sunflower State actually had 5,000 fewer jobs in that month than it did in the same month in 2015.
http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/yael-t-abouhalkah/article78817667.html

[Splits]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/us/kansas-republicans-reject-gov-brownbacks-conservatives-in-primary.html?_r=0

:lol tlongII (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=158)


Kansas Republicans Reject Gov. Sam Brownback’s Conservatives in Primary
By MITCH SMITH
AUG. 3, 2016

Republican voters in Kansas rebelled against the policies of Gov. Sam Brownback on Tuesday, ousting his fellow conservatives in at least 11 state legislative primary races amid widespread angst about Kansas’s financial situation.

With some races still undetermined on Wednesday, but also leaning toward moderates, the primary was a tangible sign of the grumblings that have been going on under the surface in heavily Republican Kansas, as deep cuts to taxes, a centerpiece of the Brownback agenda, have left the state short on revenue and led to cuts to government services.

“People, they were frustrated,” said Dinah Sykes, a moderate Republican from the Kansas City suburbs who defeated the conservative incumbent in her State Senate district. “They were ready for people to listen to them and be accountable to them.”

The results promised to reshape the dynamics in the Legislature, which has been dominated in recent years by conservatives friendly to Mr. Brownback, and perhaps add pressure for the governor to reconsider some of his tax policies, which were predicated on a supply-side theory of economics and championed by conservatives nationally. Kansas has repeatedly missed revenue collection targets, has seen its credit rating slashed and has cut funding for some government services during Mr. Brownback’s tenure.

“It was schools, it was roads, it was the fact that some communities were hoping for job growth that didn’t happen,” said Chapman Rackaway, a political science professor at Fort Hays State University who called Tuesday’s results a “repudiation” of Mr. Brownback’s policies.

Kansas remains an overwhelmingly Republican state, and the party will almost certainly retain large legislative majorities after the general election in November. And Mr. Brownback himself was elected to a second four-year term in 2014.

But Tuesday’s vote highlighted a longstanding split in the state party between conservatives and a moderate bloc that sometimes aligns with Democrats. Patrick R. Miller, a political scientist at the University of Kansas, said Tuesday’s results came from “Brownback’s unpopularity laid on top of that traditional divide.”

At least six conservative senators lost their primaries, political scientists and local news media said, along with five conservative House members. Three more conservative House members were trailing moderates in close races. Other moderate candidates won primaries in districts where the conservative incumbent did not seek another term.

In addition, Republicans in one congressional district voted out Representative Tim Huelskamp, a farmer who had become a Tea Party favorite in Washington but had annoyed party stalwarts and been removed from the Agriculture Committee.

His opponent, Roger Marshall, had support from major farm groups in the state.

State Senator Greg Smith, who lost to Ms. Sykes, said “discontent with the governor” and a lack of nuance in local news coverage contributed to the conservative losses. He said there seemed to be a “schism in the Republican Party” between conservatives who “support the party platform” and “folks who register as Republicans because they know that’s the only way they can win the office,” but who in fact have more in common with Democrats.

On Wednesday, Mr. Brownback’s office sought to frame the vote as part of a broader disenchantment with current officeholders.

“Kansas is not immune from the widespread anti-incumbency sentiment we have seen across the nation this election season,” Eileen Hawley, a spokeswoman for the governor, said in a statement.

That position was partly echoed by Kelly Arnold, the chairman of the Kansas Republican Party, who said Tuesday’s results probably indicated some level of disapproval of current leadership in the state, but also frustration with the status quo at all levels of government.

“I think you saw a lot of people just kind of fed up with what’s going on, the current incumbency, and that’s on the federal level and state level,” Mr. Arnold said.

In legislative races from suburbs to the state’s vast countryside, concerns about finances and tax policy repeatedly rose to the forefront. In central Kansas, Ed Berger, a former community college president, defeated the State Senate majority leader, Terry Bruce, a major ally of Mr. Brownback.

On his campaign website, Mr. Berger warned that “our state is on the wrong track and our district’s current senator, in lock step with the governor, is the one leading it in the wrong direction.”

Voters “had concerns about the fiscal viability of the state, I heard that quite frequently,” Mr. Berger said in an interview on Wednesday. “They know that the state can’t continue on the course that we’re on.”

Many of Tuesday’s winners will still face general election opponents, but no matter who is elected in November, some have suggested that moderate Republicans and Democrats, if they band together, might be able to muster enough votes to block parts of Mr. Brownback’s agenda from becoming law.

Kerry Gooch, the executive director of the Kansas Democratic Party, said the results in the Republican primary showed widespread discontent and frustration among voters, and a desire for things to change.

“I definitely think it shows that Kansans are paying attention,” Mr. Gooch said, “that Kansans are not happy with what Governor Brownback and extreme Republican legislators have been doing to our state for the last six years.”

[hitmanyr2k]

Kock Bros/Conservative "trickle down", "tax cuts pay for themselves", "shot of adrenaline" ?

Proven yet again to be pure BULLSHIT.

Repug MISgovernance, what's not to ridicule? :lol

Jindal's LA is similarly financially fucked, Jindal replaced by a Dem (for now).



The sherriff went all in on Jindal :lol Some Republicans are finally starting to wake up.

c3tnjP8SQ6o

[Splits]

You really need to look at the before and after.

Brownback was reelected even though Democrats were widely panning the tax cuts as a miserable failure. At the time, unemployment was much higher, budget deficit much worse, etc. They were touting the state's performance in relation to neighboring states. All those things are no longer true.

It takes a while to undo all the damage done by the previous tax&spend policies. We saw that in the 80s with Reagan's tax cuts - the recession he inherited got worse before it got way better.

What's going on in Kansas is similar. It's already showing signs of economy taking off.


All you have to do is look at the data. It's working.

:lol how's that data looking now?

[ElNono]

smaller gubmint!!!!! but don't you dare touching my farming subsidies!

[Splits]

^hands off my Medicare too!

[tlongII]

:lol how's that data looking now?

Ask me again after they put a Dem in there and raise taxes.

[RandomGuy]

You really need to look at the before and after.

Brownback was reelected even though Democrats were widely panning the tax cuts as a miserable failure. At the time, unemployment was much higher, budget deficit much worse, etc. They were touting the state's performance in relation to neighboring states. All those things are no longer true.

It takes a while to undo all the damage done by the previous tax&spend policies. We saw that in the 80s with Reagan's tax cuts - the recession he inherited got worse before it got way better.

What's going on in Kansas is similar. It's already showing signs of economy taking off.

Still failing.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CWPcm2jupmk/V5lDW3-OzNI/AAAAAAAAAqw/hMhVBuJNQjomzZ2_XG6xKMsN39JMdxENwCLcB/s400/2.png


Certainly the reduced collections from corporate income tax and severance tax contributed to the dismal FY 2016 revenue results, but they pale in comparison to the income tax collection loss.

To deal with the severe budget problems created by the income tax cuts, lawmakers have blown through reserves, borrowed, raided the highway fund, taken money from children’s programs, cut services, and raised the sales tax rate. But they have not addressed the source of the problem—unaffordable income tax cuts. As a result, Kansas literally scrapes by financially, day by day, unable to invest in the future.

[RandomGuy]

Kansas budget falls short again; $75 million payment to schools delayed
Kansas is withholding its June payment to schools of $75 million by a week in order to keep the budget in the black


TOPEKA, Kan. (KSNW) — The Kansas budget took another hit in the month of June, once again falling short of revenue projections. One of the side effects of the shortfall will impact schools in the state.

Kansas is withholding its June payment to schools of $75 million by a week in order to keep the budget in the black

The state missed its June 2016 revenue projections by more than $34.5 million. Overall in June, the state expected to bring in more than $609.9 million in tax revenue. Instead, it reported tax revenue of $575.4 million.

For fiscal year 2016, the state expected to collect more than $5.6 billion. Total revenues for the fiscal year amounted to about $5.5 billion, or more than $107.3 million less than revenue projections.

While the state has withheld payments to Kansas schools in the past due to cash flow issues, the June payment withholding amount is greater than originally predicted.

“It’s unusual that we increased the amount at the end of the year,” said Deputy Education Commissioner Dale Dennis.

Dennis says the extra amount will help replenish the deficit that was created in June.

“That was the number chosen by the budget division in order to accommodate the general fund cash flow.”

http://ksn.com/2016/07/01/kansas-budget-falls-short-again-75-million-payment-to-schools-delayed/

Borrowing from one time period to pay the next.

When people do this it is call kiting. It catches up with you eventually.

[RandomGuy]

Kansas now 33,000 jobs behind Sam Brownback’s 2014 campaign pledge

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/yael-t-abouhalkah/article84358317.html#storylink=cpy


The Sunflower State had the sixth worst job growth rate in the country over that year of minus 0.1 percent, according to the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics.

▪ Kansas is more than 33,000 jobs behind the 2014 campaign pledge of Gov. Sam Brownback that the state would gain employment of 100,000 people in his second term. That’s a gain of just under 2,100 jobs a month.

At that pace, Kansas could have added more than 35,000 jobs in the 17 months since January of 2015 marked the start of Brownback’s final term.

Oops: The total gain in those 17 months was only 1,700 jobs.

That’s right. Kansas has added an average of just 100 jobs a month since Brownback’s second term began.

[RandomGuy]

Clueless Sam Brownback, angry lawmakers a toxic mix during Kansas’ fiscal crisis

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/editorials/article85630582.html#storylink=cpy


The state’s ever-ballooning financial crisis includes borrowing $900 million, taking $45 million from a Medicaid fund, stealing more sales tax money from highway repairs and cutting state support for prisons. The state’s revenue swoon is continuing in June, budget officials say.

And on Thursday, lawmakers were desperately trying to find pennies in the couch to keep public schools open past June 30.

The day before, Hensley had tried to persuade Brownback into finally taking some responsibility for the “fiscal mismanagement” that slashed income taxes for Kansans, eliminated them for 330,000 LLCs and reduced state revenues a whopping $650 million a year.

“When is it we’re going to admit that what is happening in this state is wrong?” Hensley asked at Wednesday’s meeting of the State Finance Council. “We are in a downward spiral when it comes to the fiscal management of this state, and we have to correct our house.”

Brownback responded, “Well, Sen. Hensley, I couldn’t disagree more with you.”

Those are dismaying words from a governor who continues to ignore reality, even as the state’s financial fortunes have further deteriorated in the last few months. Brownback blames everything but himself for the state’s budget woes.

He claims — without providing any compelling evidence — that the economy would be worse off without the tax cuts.

[boutons_deux]

"governor who continues to ignore reality"

yawn, he's Repug. They all live in an anti-rational, anti-science, emotion-driven echo-chamber fantasy world.

[Nbadan]

Sam Brownback kills report that would show how his Tea Party policies destroyed the Kansas economy
Sarah K. Burris
26 Sep 2016 at 09:17 ET


Kansas Governor Sam Brownback enacted his grand “tea party experiment” of Republican government, where he and his Republican-led legislature cut taxes and significantly reduced spending. The result has been catastrophic for the state’s economy and for jobs, but a report that would detail just how catastrophic is now being censored by the Brownback administration.

According to a shocking Kansas City Star report, Brownback set up a group in 2011 that would put out quarterly reports showing the impact of Brownback’s economic laws. His problem, of course, is that the reports don’t show what he hoped they would. Instead, they reflect the downward spiral of the Kansas economy thanks to Brownback’s failed policies.

Last January, Brownback tried to hide the report when it showed something he didn’t like. Now, they’re going a different route and killing the report entirely. Brownback had hoped that the report would reflect a sudden jolt of economic excitement with the tax cuts. Now, they show that “Kansas sometimes was faring worse than it had before Brownback became governor.”

The administration flatly rejects this account of where the report went, claiming it was always too complicated for people to understand.

Read more: http://www.rawstory.com/2016/09/sam-brownback-kills-report-that-would-show-how-his-tea-party-policies-destroyed-the-kansas-economy/

[Splits]

:lol OP

[RandomGuy]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/seeded-with-tax-cuts-kansas-harvests-the-benefits-1431729743

Unemployment has dropped to 4.2% from 5.5% in 2013, and wages and job growth are steadily climbing.

Liberals love to hate Sam Brownback, and for good reason. The Kansas governor threatens a central tenet of liberal orthodoxy: the belief that higher taxes are a price that must be paid for progress.

“If your objective is to grow the economy, would you rather put more money into government, or leave it in the hands of small business?” Mr. Brownback asks during a recent interview in his office at the state capitol. Three years ago Kansas enacted the biggest tax cut of any state, relative to the size of its economy, in recent history. Lawmakers reduced the top rate on the personal income tax to 4.9% from 6.45%. They also eliminated the income tax for small business owners who file as individuals, a broad group that includes sole proprietors, limited liability partnerships and S-corporations.

The governor declared that Kansas was “open for business” in such strong terms that he might as well have donned a sandwich board reading “Come to Kansas / Keep Everything You Earn.” He boasted: “Our new pro-growth tax policy will be like a shot of adrenaline into the heart of the Kansas economy.”

The comment was subsequently picked up by critics who wondered why the Kansas economy wasn’t suddenly leaping ahead at, say, 4%-5% growth annually. When Mr. Brownback ran for re-election last year, national reporters descended on the Sunflower State and quickly made Kansas the national symbol for the alleged depredations of “trickle-down economics.” A sampling of headlines includes: “How Tea Party tax cuts are turning Kansas into a smoking ruin,” L.A. Times, July 9; “Kansas’ Ruinous Tax Cuts,” the New York Times, July 13; and “The Great Kansas Tea Party Disaster,” Rolling Stone, Oct. 23.

Yet voters re-elected Mr. Brownback by a four-point margin. What the news coverage missed was that if Kansas hasn’t exactly catapulted into the front ranks in economic growth and employment, then it has at least moved a long way from the stagnation of recent decades. Consider:

• In March 2013, unemployment in Kansas stood at 5.5%. It has since dropped to 4.2%, tied for 14th lowest in the country.

• From 1998-2012, Kansas ranked 38th in private-sector job growth, according Bureau of Labor Statistics data crunched by the Kansas Policy Institute. In 2013—the first year after the tax reform—the state climbed to 27th place, and in 2014 it moved to 21st, placing it in the top half of states.

• In the second half of 2014, hourly wages in Kansas grew 3.5%, according to BLS data, far faster than the national average of 1.9%.

Looks like you ran away screaming from this.

Think that these failed policies will work out at the federal level?

[CosmicCowboy]

Looks like you ran away screaming from this.

Think that these failed policies will work out at the federal level?

You can't seriously compare a state with the US because states have to balance budgets and can't run a deficit and the US can and does.

[boutons_deux]

You can't seriously compare a state with the US because states have to balance budgets and can't run a deficit and the US can and does.

and, eg KS and LA, have bot run HUGE REPUG DEFICITS that have both states cutting essential services, esp education, so "fiscal responsibility" by Repugs is a FUCKING LIE.

[tlongII]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinquefield/2016/07/18/kansas-an-unsung-hero-for-economic-growth/#5a7d71255992

Kansas: An Unsung Hero For Economic Growth

During this news cycle, the Midwestern governor occupying the greatest media bandwidth is the one just selected for a spot on the GOP ticket. We can certainly expect to see Indiana Governor Mike Pence’s name all over the news for the next four months, but it’s also worth taking a look at how other Midwestern governors are making a real impact, and at the state level.

Now in the third year of his bold tax experiment, Kansas Governor Sam Brownback can see the ways in which reducing (and, in many cases, eliminating) the state income tax is yielding incremental, positive effects for Kansans.

Significantly, every year since the tax cuts were implemented, Kansas has surpassed the state record for new business formations. When we consider that startups have decreased nationwide since the Great Recession of 2008, this achievement is particularly remarkable. What’s more, the Kansas unemployment rate stands at 3.7% – the lowest the state has seen since 2001, and well below the national average of 5.5%.

Why the incremental success in Kansas? We certainly can’t attribute these victories to the state’s core industries; due to economic turmoil felt nationwide, Kansas too has seen dips in farm incomes (owing to consistently low crop prices and steep declines in cattle prices), a fall in commodity prices and exports, sluggish movement in oil and natural-gas markets, and declining manufacturing. Without these four industries buoying Kansas’ economy, we must look to other factors: namely, the income tax cut that continues to make a real difference, particularly for small businesses and working families.

Governor Brownback put his faith in the private sector to grow the Kansas economy, rather than the government. By eliminating the income tax for small business, the Brownback administration effectively put money back in families’ pockets and provided promising new businesses with an environment primed for growth. Following the major tax reform in 2013, individual income taxes for individuals, families and small business went down by 30% on average. Seventy-one percent of the savings went to individuals and families, who could then save or spend as they chose. Twenty-nine percent of the savings went to small businesses, allowing them to make larger investments in equipment, space and staff.

Prior to tax reform, Kansas possessed the second-highest individual income tax in the region; today, it is the region’s second-lowest, bested only by Colorado. This is meaningful not just for small businesses and middle- to upper-class families, but also for Kansans of fewer means. Kansas now offers the highest Earned Income Tax Credit in the region. Plus, the Brownback administration increased the standard deduction for “head of household” filings in order to help single-parent households. Importantly, 388,000 of the lowest-income Kansans have been removed from the tax rolls, leaving them with zero tax liability.

Equally important from a regional perspective is that fact that Kansas is gaining ground over neighboring Missouri when it comes to gains in net adjusted gross income. In 2013, the same year that the Brownback tax cuts took effect, Kansas experienced a positive reversal in migration of wealth between the two bordering states. Kansas enjoys a nearly $85 million advantage in income gains from Missouri. This is a major reversal. Consider the data between 1995 and 2009, which shows more than $263 million leaving Kansas for Missouri. A longitudinal examination of this trend will bear out whether the flow of money correlates with the institution of Brownback’s tax policy, but the current evidence is certainly compelling. While other state economies struggle under the weight of current economic uncertainties, the incremental successes in Kansas make a solid case for pro-growth reform through income tax cuts.

[RandomGuy]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rexsinquefield/2016/07/18/kansas-an-unsung-hero-for-economic-growth/#5a7d71255992

Kansas: An Unsung Hero For Economic Growth

During this news cycle, the Midwestern governor occupying the greatest media bandwidth is the one just selected for a spot on the GOP ticket. We can certainly expect to see Indiana Governor Mike Pence’s name all over the news for the next four months, but it’s also worth taking a look at how other Midwestern governors are making a real impact, and at the state level.

Now in the third year of his bold tax experiment, Kansas Governor Sam Brownback can see the ways in which reducing (and, in many cases, eliminating) the state income tax is yielding incremental, positive effects for Kansans.

Significantly, every year since the tax cuts were implemented, Kansas has surpassed the state record for new business formations. When we consider that startups have decreased nationwide since the Great Recession of 2008, this achievement is particularly remarkable. What’s more, the Kansas unemployment rate stands at 3.7% – the lowest the state has seen since 2001, and well below the national average of 5.5%.

Why the incremental success in Kansas? We certainly can’t attribute these victories to the state’s core industries; due to economic turmoil felt nationwide, Kansas too has seen dips in farm incomes (owing to consistently low crop prices and steep declines in cattle prices), a fall in commodity prices and exports, sluggish movement in oil and natural-gas markets, and declining manufacturing. Without these four industries buoying Kansas’ economy, we must look to other factors: namely, the income tax cut that continues to make a real difference, particularly for small businesses and working families.

Governor Brownback put his faith in the private sector to grow the Kansas economy, rather than the government. By eliminating the income tax for small business, the Brownback administration effectively put money back in families’ pockets and provided promising new businesses with an environment primed for growth. Following the major tax reform in 2013, individual income taxes for individuals, families and small business went down by 30% on average. Seventy-one percent of the savings went to individuals and families, who could then save or spend as they chose. Twenty-nine percent of the savings went to small businesses, allowing them to make larger investments in equipment, space and staff.

Prior to tax reform, Kansas possessed the second-highest individual income tax in the region; today, it is the region’s second-lowest, bested only by Colorado. This is meaningful not just for small businesses and middle- to upper-class families, but also for Kansans of fewer means. Kansas now offers the highest Earned Income Tax Credit in the region. Plus, the Brownback administration increased the standard deduction for “head of household” filings in order to help single-parent households. Importantly, 388,000 of the lowest-income Kansans have been removed from the tax rolls, leaving them with zero tax liability.

Equally important from a regional perspective is that fact that Kansas is gaining ground over neighboring Missouri when it comes to gains in net adjusted gross income. In 2013, the same year that the Brownback tax cuts took effect, Kansas experienced a positive reversal in migration of wealth between the two bordering states. Kansas enjoys a nearly $85 million advantage in income gains from Missouri. This is a major reversal. Consider the data between 1995 and 2009, which shows more than $263 million leaving Kansas for Missouri. A longitudinal examination of this trend will bear out whether the flow of money correlates with the institution of Brownback’s tax policy, but the current evidence is certainly compelling. While other state economies struggle under the weight of current economic uncertainties, the incremental successes in Kansas make a solid case for pro-growth reform through income tax cuts.

To sum up:
An op-ed that cites the National Review that provides the following major datapoint as meaningful:


Kansas has broken the state record for new business formations

Kansas’ share of newly opened business establishments in the United States has actually declined slightly rather than increased.[11]

Businesses have been forming because the economy is improving in general.

Since you can't link the policy to the data, the only logical choice is to reject it.


Kansas unemployment has plummeted to 3.9 percent, the lowest rate since 2001.



Since it took effect in January 2013, total employment in Kansas has risen only 2.6 percent, compared to 6.5 percent nationally. Private sector employment in Kansas has risen 3.5 percent, compared to 7.6 percent nationally.

Granted the rest of the economy probably saw greater losses than that of Kansas. Lower baselines equal greater growth. Bit of a wash.


The state’s economy has grown less than half as fast as the national economy; Kansas’ gross domestic product (GDP) grew 4.8 percent from the end of 2012 through the first quarter of 2016, while national GDP rose 11.9 percent.



Personal income tax revenues in the fiscal year ending June 30, 2016 (fiscal year 2016) were almost $700 million lower than those received in fiscal year 2013,[12] when the tax cut first took effect, even though the economy nationally is stronger in 2016 than it was in 2013. Receipts dropped immediately by slightly more than $700 million (24 percent), and the meager economic growth that occurred in Kansas from 2014 to 2016 boosted collections by only $30 million, or less than 2 percent.[13]

Total General Fund revenues in 2016 were $570 million below 2013 levels, despite significant sales and cigarette tax increases enacted to partially offset the income tax losses.[14] The General Fund’s ending balance fell from $709 million in 2013 to $40 million in 2016 (just 0.7 percent of General Fund spending).[15] That’s important because Kansas’ General Fund balance is its “rainy day fund.”[16] Should a recession hit and tax revenues shrink as household incomes and retail sales fall, the state will need to cut programs or enact tax increases almost immediately because it will have very little savings to tap.

The General Fund’s depletion occurred even though the state transferred to the Fund substantial tax revenues that were collected to finance road maintenance and construction.[17] The resulting reduction in infrastructure funding has forced the state to postpone numerous highway projects indefinitely.[18]

Because the tax cuts leave less state revenue with which to repay people who lend the state money by buying its bonds, Kansas’ bond rating has been downgraded twice — in 2014, and most recently on July 26, 2016.[19] Lower bond ratings mean that the state will likely have to pay a higher interest rate on future borrowings, raising the cost of infrastructure projects such as school construction and road building.
http://www.cbpp.org/research/federal-tax/kansas-tax-cut-experience-refutes-economic-growth-predictions-of-trump-tax

Again, you aren't making your case.

If conservative principles include trickle down tax cuts, then they are simply wishful thinking, as you have yet to back up anything with solid, conclusive evidence. If it were clear cut, the evidence would be a hell of a lot better, and easier to find.

What I see is cherry picking and intellectual dishonesty. Not convincing at all.

We can do better for public policy.

[Splits]

Rex Sinquefield (born 1944)[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Sinquefield#cite_note-1) is an American financial executive, active in Missouri politics. He supports an end to the income tax.

Sounds legit.

[boutons_deux]

For Those Who Had Any Doubts, Kansas Has Officially Gone Insane. (http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/3/9/1498693/-For-Those-Who-Had-Any-Doubts-Kansas-Has-Officially-Gone-Insane)

http://images.dailykos.com/images/172556/story_image/Brownback-angry.jpg?1453830754

A committee in the GOP-controlled Senate plans to vote Tuesday on a bill that would make "attempting to usurp the power" of the Legislature or the executive branch grounds for impeachment.

Impeachment has "been a little-used tool" to challenge judges who strike down new legislation, said Republican Sen. Dennis Pyle, a sponsor of the measure. "Maybe it needs to be oiled up a little bit or sharpened a little bit."

Senate Bill 439 (http://www.kslegislature.org/li/b2015_16/measures/sb439/) is currently set for debate before the state’s GOP-stacked Judiciary Committee.

If it is approved and signed by Governor Brownback, it will permit

impeachment of any Judge who acts contrary to the wishes of the legislature.

In other words, any Judge who strikes down or modifies any law the legislature passes, for any reason-- whether the law is blatantly Unconstitutional, violative of existing laws, or otherwise, is thereby subject to impeachment proceedings by the state Legislature.

A previous law threatening to cut off all Judicial funding was declared unconstitutional by the state’s High Court.

The state has been trapped (http://www.kansascity.com/opinion/opn-columns-blogs/yael-t-abouhalkah/article32851836.html) in an economic death grip (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/09/magazine/the-kansas-experiment.html)since Governor Sam Brownback and a feckless cadre of rabidly “conservative” Republican lawmakers controlling a supermajority (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansas_Legislature) in both of the state’s legislative chambers instituted unprecedented, radical tax cuts to benefit the richest people in the state, while just as radically guttingpublic services (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-great-kansas-tea-party-disaster-20141023) to the state’s citizens, most notably in education:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/3/9/1498693/-For-Those-Who-Had-Any-Doubts-Kansas-Has-Officially-Gone-Insane

I have no problem feeling vastly superior to fucking CRETINS.

[boutons_deux]

Kansas Governor's conservative tax plan blown up with his own words (http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/12/29/1615338/-Kansas-Governor-s-conservative-tax-plan-blown-up-with-his-own-words)

http://images.dailykos.com/images/344111/story_image/Kansas_Governor_conservative_tax_plan_blown_up_wit h_his_own_words_%28VIDEO%29.jpg?1482991905

"Sam Brownback, the Republican Governor, from Kansas, has some advice for the president-elect," Chris Hayes said. "Telling the Wall Street Journal (http://www.wsj.com/articles/sam-brownback-calls-on-donald-trump-to-mimic-his-kansas-tax-plan-1482489006) that Trump should mimic his Kansas tax plan.

Brownback's

signature idea, eliminating the 4,6% state individual income tax for partnerships, limited liability corporations, and similar businesses.

When Brownback passed his steep income tax cut in 2012, he called it a real life experiment."

Hayes then played a June 19th, 2012 clip of Brownback saying that on taxes the overall rate needed to come down, removing social manipulations -- read social safety net-- to create growth.

"We'll see how it works," Brownback said. "We will have a real life experiment.

We are right next to some other states that haven't lowered taxes.

You'll get a chance to see how this impacts a particular experimental area.

And I think Kansas is going to do well."

"As economists have reported for years, that economic vision appears to be failing spectacularly in Kansas.

The massive tax cut blew a massive hole in the state budget, and now $350 million deficit is expected to grow;

the state credit rating has been downgraded twice and falling cuts to higher education and Medicaid.

Brownback used around $2 Billion designated for highway funding to cover the budget hole. Meanwhile,

the tax cuts have done little to jumpstart Kansas' economy overall with growth for this year projected to be flat,

compared with 2% GDP growth nationally.

Today, we got one more economic indicator out of the region. Brownback claimed in 2012 you can

measure his Kansas experiment against neighboring states which did not enact the same type of drastic income tax cuts like Nebraska."

Hayes displayed the charts showing Nebraska outperforming Kansas by quite a bit.

http://images.dailykos.com/images/344113/large/Kansas_v_Nebraska.JPG?1482991962

the poorest 20% of households are now paying an average of about $200 more in state taxes according to an analysis by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy.

Meanwhile, the wealthiest 1% of households are saving an average of $25,000."

The Laffer curve is a laugh. Look closely. It is an indirect transfer of wealth from the masses to the few.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/12/29/1615338/-Kansas-Governor-s-conservative-tax-plan-blown-up-with-his-own-words?detail=email&link_id=8&can_id=4217e8eb109c68bd0c2e4143dd2d8c15&source=email-to-michelle-obama-for-the-first-time-in-my-adult-life-i-am-ashamed-of-my-country&email_referrer=to-michelle-obama-for-the-first-time-in-my-adult-life-i-am-ashamed-of-my-country___147931&email_subject=kansas-governors-conservative-tax-plan-blown-up-with-his-own-words (http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/12/29/1615338/-Kansas-Governor-s-conservative-tax-plan-blown-up-with-his-own-words?detail=email&link_id=8&can_id=4217e8eb109c68bd0c2e4143dd2d8c15&source=email-to-michelle-obama-for-the-first-time-in-my-adult-life-i-am-ashamed-of-my-country&email_referrer=to-michelle-obama-for-the-first-time-in-my-adult-life-i-am-ashamed-of-my-country___147931&email_subject=kansas-governors-conservative-tax-plan-blown-up-with-his-own-words)

So even neighboring red/slave states are doing better than BB's Kock Bros shit hole of KS.

How about vs blue states? :lol

[Splits]

Kansas lawmakers vote to roll back governor’s deep tax cut (http://www.denverpost.com/2017/02/17/kansas-lawmakers-pass-big-income-tax-increase-as-budget-fix/)

The state faces projected budget shortfalls totaling nearly $1.1 billion through June 2019

By JOHN HANNA (http://www.denverpost.com/author/john-hanna/) | The Associated Press

TOPEKA, Kan. — Kansas’ Republican-led Legislature voted Friday to roll back a deep tax cut championed by Republican Gov. Sam Brownback, conceding it helped put the state in dire financial straits and setting up a possible showdown with him.

Brownback has vowed not to sign the bill, which would impose income tax increases that would raise more than $1 billion over two years. The state Senate voted 22-18 for it Friday, a day after the state House approved it on a 76-48 vote.

Republican leaders were split on the measure, and neither the House speaker nor the Senate president voted on it.

“The right thing is to get out of this mess,” said Republican state Sen. John Doll, of Garden City, who backed the tax plan.

Neither chamber gave the bill the two-thirds majority it would need to override a veto. Brownback has strongly criticized the measure as harmful to working-class families and small businesses, but he has stopped short of saying he would veto it. He could let it become law without his signature.

The state faces projected budget shortfalls totaling nearly $1.1 billion through June 2019. Even with a big tax increase, lawmakers still would have to approve some stop-gap measures such as internal government borrowing to pay bills through June, until new revenue started flowing in.

Brownback and his allies continue to argue that the personal income tax cuts he championed in 2012 and 2013 are creating economic growth and the state’s problems were largely caused by slumps in agriculture and oil production. Voters rendered a different verdict last year, ousting two-dozen Brownback allies from the Legislature and giving Democrats and GOP moderates more power.

Legislators would be forced to start over on a new tax plan if Brownback vetoed the bill and they couldn’t override him, creating the possibility of a drawn out dispute.

Kansas is facing its third major tax increase to fill budget gaps in the five years since the first Brownback-inspired income taxes were enacted. In 2015, Republican lawmakers boosted sales and cigarette taxes in a package that critics labeled the largest tax increase in state history. The bill approved Friday calls for an even bigger tax hike to cover larger budget shortfalls.


:lmao tlongII (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=158)

[tlongII]

Fake News.

[Winehole23]

what makes it fake, tlongII?

[tlongII]

MSNBC and dailykos.

[ElNono]

How about Fox?

http://fox4kc.com/2017/02/17/kansas-legislature-approves-big-income-tax-increase-to-help-balance-state-budget-defying-republican-gov-sam-brownback/

[Th'Pusher]

MSNBC and dailykos.

Do you know what the associated press is?

[Splits]

Do you know what the associated press is?

Isn't that the fake news organization that lied about a memo being circulated that called for 100,000 national guard units to be used for deportations?

[RandomGuy]

Fake News.

Assuming that isn't tongue in cheek:

Because anything that makes the Dear Leaders policies look bad is fake.

Exactly the line that Mugabe, Chavez, Castro, Putin, and every other tin pot dictator uses when someone calls them on their horseshit.

Congratulations.

https://pics.onsizzle.com/the-first-thing-a-cult-does-is-tell-you-everyone-else-islying-14068592.png

[RandomGuy]

Syria's Assad Brushes Off Amnesty Report on Prison Executions as 'Fake News'
http://time.com/4666806/assad_syria-amnesty-international/

Mugabe's fake news:
http://allafrica.com/stories/201612050814.html

Anyways... back to reality.

Supply side economics sucks.

The scary thing is that Trumps budget rely's heavily on it.

[RandomGuy]

ozMpjCSUuWk

[RandomGuy]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/02/22/republicans-real-live-experiment-with-kansass-economy-survives-a-revolt-from-their-own-party/?utm_term=.d5de7e338ae5

For both Brownback and his critics, the changes are a model for the policies that Republicans in Washington, D.C., might pursue on a national level now that they are in control of the federal government. One of President Trump’s advisers on economic policy during the campaign, Stephen Moore, also helped Brownback develop the changes he enacted beginning in 2012. Rep. Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.), the speaker of the House, served as Brownback’s legislative director when Brownback was in Congress.

Kansas Gov. Sam Brownback (R) spoke at the 2017 Conservative Political Action Conference on Feb. 23, and pushed for less government regulations. "When have we added more government anywhere that's taken more taxes and you end up with a product that's more efficient that costs you less?" he asked.
Ryan’s and Trump’s proposals for tax reform have important features in common with Brownback’s policies. Both reduce the number of income-tax brackets. Brownback’s policies and Ryan’s proposal treat income from legal entities typically used by small businesses more favorably than ordinary income. Likewise, the plan Trump advanced as a candidate appeared to reduce the tax rate on such earnings, known as “pass-through income,” but his proposal was ambiguous on this point.

In the case of Brownback’s overhaul, pass-through income has been completely exempt from taxation. In 2012, the state had projected that about 200,000 pass-through entities would take advantage of the exemption. In fact, about 330,000 ostensible small businesses profited from the rule. That data suggests the reform encouraged tens of thousands of Kansans to claim their wages and salaries as income from a business rather than from employment.

That avoidance has contributed to repeated budget deficits, forcing state policymakers to take emergency measures, exhausting the state’s reserves and diverting money dedicated to maintaining highways to keep the state’s government operating.

[RandomGuy]

To be fair here is the best argument I found for "tax cuts working"

https://www.atr.org/kansas-tax-cuts-are-working

Best arguments hinge on unemployment comparisons.


Bureau of Labor Statistics data details a significantly better trend for Kansas as opposed to Missouri following the passage of the first round of tax cuts in 2012. In the year 2012, both Missouri and Kansas saw significant drops in state unemployment rates. Kansas began in January, 2012 with a rate of 6.1% and finished out the year at 5.4%. Missouri began 2012 at 7.5% and finished out the year at 6.7%. However, in 2013 after the 2012 Kansas tax cuts had kicked in, the two states diverged. Kansas continued to reduce their unemployment rate, dropping from 5.5% in January 2013 to 4.9% in December. Missouri, on the other hand, saw their rate fluctuate – beginning the year at 6.5%, then climbing to 7.2% in August of 2013 before finally seeing a drastic drop in December to 5.9% (partially due to holiday hires in the retail sector – note: this applies to Kansas as well). The preliminary rates for 2014 show Kansas holding steady at 4.8% (comparable to nearby Iowa holding steady at 4.3/4.4%, Nebraska at 3.6%, and Colorado around 6%). Missouri, unlike Kansas, has seen their unemployment rate increase – moving from 6% in January of 2014 to 6.6% in May.

The main problem here is that it is hard to completely substitute one state for another in terms of causality here, since state economies tend to vary somewhat.

[Will Hunting]

Kansas passes a huge tax increase because their tax cuts were such an abject failure :lmao
failed Koch Brother / Cuckservative policies :lmao

[boutons_deux]

To be fair here is the best argument I found for "tax cuts working"

https://www.atr.org/kansas-tax-cuts-are-working

Best arguments hinge on unemployment comparisons.



The main problem here is that it is hard to completely substitute one state for another in terms of causality here, since state economies tend to vary somewhat.

2012-2013 were still years of recovery for the entire economy after the Banksters Great Depression. Austerity at the Federal and red/slave state levels retarded what would have been a long recovery anyway. Impossible to say whether KS tax cuts alone or majorly affected unemployment.

The consensus among of studies and serious economists is that the tax cuts don't pay for themselves.

dubya's massive 2001 tax cuts were followed by 8 years of slowest job growth since WWII. Repugs are not job creators.

[AaronY]

Kansas is a good example of how going too right wing is horrible just like Venezuala is a good example of how going too left wing is just as bad. Need a little centrism but definitely have to tax the rich more. Trickle down economics is so utterly disproven theoretically at this point and is really only good for duping white trash honestly

[RandomGuy]

Whoopsies.

Kansas legislature rolls back Brownback's tax cuts

Stink.

Failure.

Republican.


Kansas legislators on Tuesday voted to raise taxes by more than a billion dollars, rolling back steep tax cuts signed into law by Gov. Sam Brownback (R) five years ago that sank the state into a deep fiscal hole.

A bipartisan majority in the state Senate and state House voted to override Brownback's veto of a bill to raise taxes by $1.2 billion.

The measure reverses many of the tax cuts that Brownback authorized in 2012, when the Republican-dominated legislature slashed taxes to the core.

In the intervening years, Kansas has faced deep budget deficits and increasingly bitter fights between Brownback and the legislature — still controlled by Republicans — over how to close those budget holds.

http://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/336684-kansas-legislature-rolls-back-brownbacks-tax-cuts

[RandomGuy]

Sam Brownback, governor of Kansas, heads for the exit

GOVERNORS of Kansas tend to love their job and rarely leave it early. Kathleen Sebelius, a Democrat, dithered before agreeing to leave the governor’s mansion after Barack Obama asked her to lead the introduction of the Affordable Care Act as Secretary of Health and Human Services. The current Republican governor, Sam Brownback, is different. He appeared not to hesitate before agreeing to take the relatively low-profile job of ambassador for international religious freedom in Washington, DC, a good 16 months before the end of his term. Perhaps Mr Brownback is as keen to leave Kansas as many Kansans are to see him go.

Mr Brownback once had high ambitions. At the age of 30 he was Kansas’s secretary of agriculture, a congressman eight years later, a senator by age the age of 40 and a (short-lived) candidate for the presidential election in 2008 aged 50. When he was elected governor of his home state in 2010, Mr Brownback had a grand vision: the transformation of Kansas into a conservative beacon. “Our place, Kansas, will not be timid in doing what is right, even if much of the nation takes another way,” he said in his state-of-the-state address in January 2013 following Mr Obama’s re-election. Kansas will show “the difficult path for America to go in these troubled times”, he vowed.

The policies Mr Brownback implemented in 2012 and 2013 were cheered by social conservatives and Laffer-curve acolytes. He cut business and income taxes in what he called a “real live experiment” and privatised Medicaid. He signed several laws making it harder to have an abortion and others that made it easier to get hold of guns. If things went well he could surely have another crack at the presidency.

But things did not go well. Mr Brownback’s fiscal policies blew a hole in Kansas’s budget and led to cuts in school and infrastructure funding. The state’s debt rating was downgraded several times. Kansas was one of only five states to lose private-sector jobs from the start of this year to June, compared with a national growth rate of 1.7% for the same period, according to the Seidman Research Institute at Arizona State University. "The governor put all his eggs in one basket and it blew up in his face,” says Patrick Miller at the University of Kansas.

In June, Republicans joined Democrats to override the governor’s veto of tax increases aimed at undoing much of Brownback-onomics. Susan Wagle, the Republican president of the Kansas senate, said in June that she hoped the Senate would work swiftly to approve Mr Brownback in his new job “so that we can get Kansas back on track with new leadership”. As soon as Mr Brownback departs for Washington, DC, Jeff Colyer, the state’s lieutenant governor, will take over as governor—and a political race will begin.

https://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2017/09/real-live-failure-0


------------------------


LOL Laffer Curve

[RandomGuy]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/seeded-with-tax-cuts-kansas-harvests-the-benefits-1431729743

Unemployment has dropped to 4.2% from 5.5% in 2013, and wages and job growth are steadily climbing.

Liberals love to hate Sam Brownback, and for good reason. The Kansas governor threatens a central tenet of liberal orthodoxy: the belief that higher taxes are a price that must be paid for progress.

“If your objective is to grow the economy, would you rather put more money into government, or leave it in the hands of small business?” Mr. Brownback asks during a recent interview in his office at the state capitol. Three years ago Kansas enacted the biggest tax cut of any state, relative to the size of its economy, in recent history. Lawmakers reduced the top rate on the personal income tax to 4.9% from 6.45%. They also eliminated the income tax for small business owners who file as individuals, a broad group that includes sole proprietors, limited liability partnerships and S-corporations.

The governor declared that Kansas was “open for business” in such strong terms that he might as well have donned a sandwich board reading “Come to Kansas / Keep Everything You Earn.” He boasted: “Our new pro-growth tax policy will be like a shot of adrenaline into the heart of the Kansas economy.”

The comment was subsequently picked up by critics who wondered why the Kansas economy wasn’t suddenly leaping ahead at, say, 4%-5% growth annually. When Mr. Brownback ran for re-election last year, national reporters descended on the Sunflower State and quickly made Kansas the national symbol for the alleged depredations of “trickle-down economics.” A sampling of headlines includes: “How Tea Party tax cuts are turning Kansas into a smoking ruin,” L.A. Times, July 9; “Kansas’ Ruinous Tax Cuts,” the New York Times, July 13; and “The Great Kansas Tea Party Disaster,” Rolling Stone, Oct. 23.

Yet voters re-elected Mr. Brownback by a four-point margin. What the news coverage missed was that if Kansas hasn’t exactly catapulted into the front ranks in economic growth and employment, then it has at least moved a long way from the stagnation of recent decades. Consider:

• In March 2013, unemployment in Kansas stood at 5.5%. It has since dropped to 4.2%, tied for 14th lowest in the country.

• From 1998-2012, Kansas ranked 38th in private-sector job growth, according Bureau of Labor Statistics data crunched by the Kansas Policy Institute. In 2013—the first year after the tax reform—the state climbed to 27th place, and in 2014 it moved to 21st, placing it in the top half of states.

• In the second half of 2014, hourly wages in Kansas grew 3.5%, according to BLS data, far faster than the national average of 1.9%.

Smells like... failure.

[RandomGuy]

Kansas is a good example of how going too right wing is horrible just like Venezuala is a good example of how going too left wing is just as bad. Need a little centrism but definitely have to tax the rich more. Trickle down economics is so utterly disproven theoretically at this point and is really only good for duping white trash honestly

+1

[boutons_deux]

"Trickle down economics is so utterly disproven ..."

... PRACTICALLY, as the top quintile Capitalists hoard $Ts, keeping it out of the Real Economy, out of the lives of the lower 4 quintiles, aka, Labor.

tax cuts DON'T pay for themselves.

[RandomGuy]

"Trickle down economics is so utterly disproven ..."

... PRACTICALLY, as the top quintile Capitalists hoard $Ts, keeping it out of the Real Economy, out of the lives of the lower 4 quintiles.

tax cuts DON'T pay for themselves.


They don't.

Now the GOP wants to do the same stupid shit at the national level.

Stupid motherfuckers.

[boutons_deux]

They don't.

Now the GOP wants to do the same stupid shit at the national level.

Stupid motherfuckers.

and tax cuts DON'T create jobs.

evidence: dubya/dickhead's tax cuts of 2001 resulted in the lowest job creation over 8 years since WWII


another lie: raising the minimum doesn't kill jobs, studies over decades have shown that.

[Splits]

:lmao tlongII

One of the most epic thread fails in this forum. The title alone makes me :lol every time I read it

[monosylab1k]

:lmao

[Splits]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/tlongII/tlongbroom.jpg

also :lmao taking selfies in your own fucking bathroom mirror past the age of 15

Nice fucking wallpaper, faggot :lol tlongII (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=158)
Nice fucking flip phone, faggot :lol tlongII (http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/member.php?u=158)
Nice fucking haircut, faggot :lol tlongII

[monosylab1k]

You really need to look at the before and after.

Brownback was reelected even though Democrats were widely panning the tax cuts as a miserable failure. At the time, unemployment was much higher, budget deficit much worse, etc. They were touting the state's performance in relation to neighboring states. All those things are no longer true.

It takes a while to undo all the damage done by the previous tax&spend policies. We saw that in the 80s with Reagan's tax cuts - the recession he inherited got worse before it got way better.

What's going on in Kansas is similar. It's already showing signs of economy taking off.

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[tlongII]

Well at least they're not Illinois.

[RandomGuy]

Well at least they're not Illinois.


The big problem here is that the entire GOP tax policy was given a full-throated lab trial.

Trickle down has been right-wing dogma for decades.

As much as people rip on Boutons for railing against moneyed interests, trickle down benefits only the wealthiest, at the expense of everybody else.

What will replace it? Or will the party continue to cling to this?

[Splits]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v513/tlongII/tlongbroom.jpg


:lmao that dead wreath hanging on the wall

[tlongII]

:lmao that dead wreath hanging on the wall

That's a helluva good looking dude though! :tu

[tlongII]

The big problem here is that the entire GOP tax policy was given a full-throated lab trial.

Trickle down has been right-wing dogma for decades.

As much as people rip on Boutons for railing against moneyed interests, trickle down benefits only the wealthiest, at the expense of everybody else.

What will replace it? Or will the party continue to cling to this?

I am not a republican so I don't know what their party will advocate.

[DMC]

Fuck Kansas. I just spent 5 weeks in that state (oddly no one talked about the taxes). The Jayhawks sure are some big lanky bitches. They were in the airport at KC and good lord I thought the Orcs were attacking.

[RandomGuy]

I am not a republican so I don't know what their party will advocate.

Okaay.

So what is your preferred tax scheme then? Tax cuts for the rich?

[Splits]

Okaay.

So what is your preferred tax scheme then? Tax cuts for the rich?

He's not rich, so he does't know what they advocate.

[tlongII]

Okaay.

So what is your preferred tax scheme then? Tax cuts for the rich?

My preference would be a simplified tax code with a flat rate for individuals. We should also lower the corporate income tax rate.

[Spurminator]

Sorry for piling on, but...

http://theatln.tc/2yeJrZQ
The regretful Republicans of Kansas have a message for the tax-cutting Republicans of Congress: Don’t follow our lead.

[RandomGuy]

If states are, as Justice Louis Brandeis famously called them, the laboratories of democracy, then Kansas’s experiment in conservative tax reform set off an explosion of red ink. Steep cuts for businesses and individuals failed to produce a promised economic boom, and busted the state’s budget instead. Now, the GOP legislators that oversaw—and ultimately cancelled—that fiscal study are increasingly worried that Washington will ignore its central finding.

A tax-reform plan from the White House and Republican congressional leaders mirrors the structure of the legislation Kansas passed, and it’s been accompanied by the same confident assurances that it will “pay for itself” with economic growth. “That won’t work, so you better learn our lesson,” warned Kansas state Senator Barbara Bollier, a Republican who voted against the tax cuts originally and then fought to undo them earlier this year.

This failed so badly even the GOP pols had to own it.

[RandomGuy]

And now they are trying it at the Federal level.

Holy shit.

[RandomGuy]

Sorry for piling on, but...

http://theatln.tc/2yeJrZQ
The regretful Republicans of Kansas have a message for the tax-cutting Republicans of Congress: Don’t follow our lead.

Too late.

Its like we have put a bunch of pyromaniacs in charge of the fire department.

[AaronY]

Dang its even worse than we thought lol

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a13528330/kansas-sam-brownback-disaster-republicans/

This starter is hilarious tho:

"By now, the whole country knows what a godawful mess Governor Sam Brownback has made out of the state of Kansas"

what percentage of americans are atuned to the kansas GDP statistics or even know about this? like 5% lol

[RandomGuy]

By now, the whole country knows what a godawful mess Governor Sam Brownback has made out of the state of Kansas in his doomed experiment to prove that modern conservative economics make sense. (Pro tip: They don’t.) Brownback, of course, would rather that not have gotten out to the world at large, and he and his government have done their level best to make sure it didn’t, as The Kansas City Star tells us.




A Kansas spokesperson was acknowledging that the state highway department didn’t have the money to rebuild a dangerous stretch of Interstate 70 that had been the scene of multiple wrecks and a grisly motorcycle fatality caught on video. “KDOT has lost a lot of money over the last few years,” the spokesperson said. “There’s just no funding at this point.” Simple, yes. But in Gov. Sam Brownback’s cash-strapped administration, those were fighting words. Days later, the spokesperson was fired. “Your article was the nail in my coffin for being the face of KDOT,” the spokesperson said in an email to The Kansas City Star.

One might conclude from this that Brownback would rather have people die on his state’s highways than admit, in the words of Marshall McLuhan in Annie Hall, that his entire fallacy is wrong. One might do that, indeed.

----------------------------

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/politics/a13528330/kansas-sam-brownback-disaster-republicans/

So the incompetent Republican administration of Kansas tried to hide how bad it was.

Smells like Puerto Rico.

[RandomGuy]

That was people dying because of Republican incompetence.

Pretty clear. Don't maintain the roads, people die.

[RandomGuy]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/seeded-with-tax-cuts-kansas-harvests-the-benefits-1431729743

Unemployment has dropped to 4.2% from 5.5% in 2013, and wages and job growth are steadily climbing.

Liberals love to hate Sam Brownback, and for good reason. The Kansas governor threatens a central tenet of liberal orthodoxy: the belief that higher taxes are a price that must be paid for progress.

“If your objective is to grow the economy, would you rather put more money into government, or leave it in the hands of small business?” Mr. Brownback asks during a recent interview in his office at the state capitol. Three years ago Kansas enacted the biggest tax cut of any state, relative to the size of its economy, in recent history. Lawmakers reduced the top rate on the personal income tax to 4.9% from 6.45%. They also eliminated the income tax for small business owners who file as individuals, a broad group that includes sole proprietors, limited liability partnerships and S-corporations.

The governor declared that Kansas was “open for business” in such strong terms that he might as well have donned a sandwich board reading “Come to Kansas / Keep Everything You Earn.” He boasted: “Our new pro-growth tax policy will be like a shot of adrenaline into the heart of the Kansas economy.”

The comment was subsequently picked up by critics who wondered why the Kansas economy wasn’t suddenly leaping ahead at, say, 4%-5% growth annually. When Mr. Brownback ran for re-election last year, national reporters descended on the Sunflower State and quickly made Kansas the national symbol for the alleged depredations of “trickle-down economics.” A sampling of headlines includes: “How Tea Party tax cuts are turning Kansas into a smoking ruin,” L.A. Times, July 9; “Kansas’ Ruinous Tax Cuts,” the New York Times, July 13; and “The Great Kansas Tea Party Disaster,” Rolling Stone, Oct. 23.

Yet voters re-elected Mr. Brownback by a four-point margin. What the news coverage missed was that if Kansas hasn’t exactly catapulted into the front ranks in economic growth and employment, then it has at least moved a long way from the stagnation of recent decades. Consider:

• In March 2013, unemployment in Kansas stood at 5.5%. It has since dropped to 4.2%, tied for 14th lowest in the country.

• From 1998-2012, Kansas ranked 38th in private-sector job growth, according Bureau of Labor Statistics data crunched by the Kansas Policy Institute. In 2013—the first year after the tax reform—the state climbed to 27th place, and in 2014 it moved to 21st, placing it in the top half of states.

• In the second half of 2014, hourly wages in Kansas grew 3.5%, according to BLS data, far faster than the national average of 1.9%.

So we have people dying as a direct result of starving state agencies of the funds they need to do their core missions.

What else does state government do? Oh yeah, protect abused children.


Children known to the state’s Department for Children and Families suffer horrific abuse, while the agency cloaks its involvement with their cases, even shredding notes after meetings where children’s deaths are discussed, according to a former high-ranking DCF official. One grieving father told The Star he was pressured to sign a “gag order” days after his son was killed that would prevent him from discussing DCF’s role in the case. Even lawmakers trying to fix the troubled system say they cannot trust information coming from agency officials

The incompetent Republican administration actively had to hide how they knew about children being tortured and beaten to death.

But hey, you got your magic tax cuts.

Do you think it worked out well for Kansas?

[RandomGuy]

Fuck Kansas. I just spent 5 weeks in that state (oddly no one talked about the taxes). The Jayhawks sure are some big lanky bitches. They were in the airport at KC and good lord I thought the Orcs were attacking.

But wait, there's more.

What else is state government responsible for... oh yeah, Medicaid.


▪ Kansas became the first state to fully privatize Medicaid services in 2013, and now some caregivers for people with disabilities say they have been asked to sign off on blank treatment plans — without knowing what’s being provided. In some of those cases, caregivers later discovered their services had been dramatically cut.

Because as we all know, profit incentives never distort behavior.

[RandomGuy]

Oooh, here is another great Republican idea from Kansas.

Let's check in and see how well that is doing.

How about anonymous authoring of bills in the legislature? So that voters can't know who to vote out of the Lege when they constantly propose stupid shit?

How secrecy in Kansas is hurting its citizens
http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article183770421.html

[AaronY]

Oooh, here is another great Republican idea from Kansas.

Let's check in and see how well that is doing.

How about anonymous authoring of bills in the legislature? So that voters can't know who to vote out of the Lege when they constantly propose stupid shit?

How secrecy in Kansas is hurting its citizens
http://www.kansascity.com/news/state/kansas/article183770421.html
Article I linked to originally said several other states do that too though. Would be interested to see if they were all red or blue states

[RandomGuy]

Article I linked to originally said several other states do that too though. Would be interested to see if they were all red or blue states

Interesting to find out.

Play the odds, probably mostly red, if not all. Time to find out.

[RandomGuy]

Article I linked to originally said several other states do that too though. Would be interested to see if they were all red or blue states


Lawmakers across the political spectrum defend the practice, saying it has strategic value and a bill’s source isn’t as important as the stances legislators take during debates and by voting.

http://cjonline.com/news-legislature-state/2015-10-25/kansas-legislation-most-anonymous-nation


To compare with procedures in the 49 other states, The Capital-Journal contacted legislative bill-drafting, research and clerk offices in their statehouses and pored over bill lists and chamber rules. This research indicates Kansas is alone in conducting business this way.

Also:

Lawmakers across the political spectrum defend the practice, saying it has strategic value and a bill’s source isn’t as important as the stances legislators take during debates and by voting.

Any Democrat who defends this should be voted out of office, as should Republicans.

Very bad.

[tlongII]

At least they aren’t Illinois.

[Chucho]

At least they aren’t Illinois.

Or California.

[TeyshaBlue]

"play the odds." :lol

[Spurminator]

This thread has aged like a fine milkshake.

[Quadzilla99]

This thread has aged like a fine milkshake.

You notice Republicans only come in here to change the subject now

[Quadzilla99]

"I'm gonna go in the Kansas thread and see if we can talk about stuff that's not Kansas"

[monosylab1k]

At least they aren’t Illinois.

I hear black people shoot each other there.

[boutons_deux]

I hear black people shoot each other there.

.... even with gun control, the horrors!

Trash was gonna send Feds to help the corrupt Chicago police, but of course, just another lie