yoff Buzz: Spurs aim to bring back Duncan, Leonard; pursue Aldridge Ken Berger / NBA

[ducks]

http://mweb.cbssports.com/nba/writer/ken-berger/25189492/playoff-buzz-spurs-aim-to-bring-back-duncan-leonard-and-go-after-aldridge?FTAG=YHF7e3228e

[ducks]

The Spurs will feel out Memphis center Marc Gasol, too, but the prevailing belief now is that Aldridge is more likely to change teams. The Trail Blazers’ hope is that the Texas native will be enticed by the five-year, $107 million deal they can offer as opposed to the four-year, $82 million that other suitors will have on the table. But that home-team advantage has been greatly diminished by the looming spike in the salary cap in 2016. Aldridge, 29, will strongly consider doing a two-year deal with a player option for ’16-’17 that would get him back to the market in a position to make tens of millions more at the new max.

Even in the Spurs’ dream scenario – Duncan and Leonard come back and successfully recruit Aldridge – they will have a hard time retaining free agent Danny Green, who is expected to command $10-$12 million:bobo on the open market – which, in 2016, will look like a bargain.

[ThaBigFundamental21]

Is it really worth losing Green, Mills, and Diaw for Aldridge? Losing Splitter is a must for Aldridge. So I'm cool there. But losing all that versatility will hurt! Mills is a spark plug and instant Offense. He and Green stretch the court, and Green can be elite in his D on the perimeter. Diaw has a skill set few can replicate. This will be interesting...it feels as if they are saying 2015 whatever, look to 2016 when they have gobs of cap space after the impending retirements.

[DPG21920]

Green is not and should not be thought of as a casualty nearly as much as national writers are making him out to be. Spurs (depending on Manu/Duncan coming back and their contracts) can definitely make room for a max offer and bring back Green regardless of his price.

These writers are speculating more on whether the Spurs are willing to pay Danny his market value more than his impact to getting a free agent IMO.

Even with Danny's cap hold, as long as Tim and Manu don't command a lot of money (and even if they do) Spurs can bring back green if they want and still pursue a FA with either cap space or via S&T.

[Richie]

Is it really worth losing Green, Mills, and Diaw for Aldridge? Losing Splitter is a must for Aldridge. So I'm cool there. But losing all that versatility will hurt! Mills is a spark plug and instant Offense. He and Green stretch the court, and Green can be elite in his D on the perimeter. Diaw has a skill set few can replicate. This will be interesting...it feels as if they are saying 2015 whatever, look to 2016 when they have gobs of cap space after the impending retirements.

We'd only need to lose one of those guys to bring in Aldridge, which is more than worth it.

Edit: Depending on what Timmy and Manu want to get paid of course. If they want salarys at the same level as last year then we'd need to get rid of more guys

[cd98]

I can't see Portland letting Aldridge go for nothing. I could see a sign and trade that would allow Aldridge to get the $107 million (assuming he doesn't try to cash in on the rising salary cap in two years). If I were the Blazers, I'd take a player like Splitter and a 1st round draft pick and anything else I could get as filler for Aldridge. Heck, Splitter was able to guard Aldridge pretty good last year, and I believe the Blazers were the one team that showed interest in Splitter when he was a FA. Again, I don't know if trading away assets make us better, but I assume if we do a trade, that it would make it easier to retain Green. Having Splitter and Aldridge would be a luxury, but having both isn't necessary.

[coachmac87]

Spur fans seem to only worry about next seasons team not the future. Aldridge not only helps next year but he can help pitch to other FA in the next coming seasons along with Kawhi. If you can get that caliber player now you do it. Even if you have to sacrifice depth. As long as 21 comes back as well that's all that matters...

[DPG21920]

Well, I for one don't care too much about the future other than keeping Danny and Kawhi. If Tim comes back it's about winning now. Do what you can now and you will have flexibility in the future anyways with Duncan and TP gone in a few years. Focus on the next 2 years if Tim is back as long as you have Kawhi/Danny secured.

Neither Gasol or LA are young bucks, they don't help your long term future much either.

[FromWayDowntown]

I haven't bothered to try to understand the tax implications of the impending spike in the salary cap, but I have wondered if teams will be willing to take on a short-term, low-end tax bill this summer with the knowledge that the cap will increase dramatically (as, I assume, will the tax thresholds) and move them out of the tax by the summer of 2016 (and save them from having to face the repeater penalties and such).

[coachmac87]

Well, I for one don't care too much about the future other than keeping Danny and Kawhi. If Tim comes back it's about winning now. Do what you can now and you will have flexibility in the future anyways with Duncan and TP gone in a few years. Focus on the next 2 years if Tim is back as long as you have Kawhi/Danny secured.

Neither Gasol or LA are young bucks, they don't help your long term future much either.

You may not care about the future but the Spurs do..so you're telling me a team with Duncan,Manu, Tony, Kawhi and Aldridge can't win? You don't know what kind of pieces they can get to fill in the spaces..

[Shastafarian]

I'm curious what people think the possible end of the CBA (2017 opt out for either side) will play on that bonanza summer. Even more overpaying?

[DPG21920]

You may not care about the future but the Spurs do..so you're telling me a team with Duncan,Manu, Tony, Kawhi and Aldridge can't win? You don't know what kind of pieces they can get to fill in the spaces..

I am not sure what you mean tbh..I do think they can win.

[FromWayDowntown]

I am not sure what you mean tbh..I do think they can win.

I think the point is that the window likely stays open longer if Aldridge elects to come to SA than if the Spurs only resign Green and Leonard this summer. A team that has Green and Leonard, but no Duncan AND no Aldridge isn't likely to be much more than a marginal playoff team in the West unless it finds some unexpected help elsewhere.

Aldridge (or Gasol) seems like the obvious hedge to try to prevent a substantial backslide (from contender to finishing 7-10 in the conference) when Tim decides he's done.

[DPG21920]

I think the point is that the window likely stays open longer if Aldridge elects to come to SA than if the Spurs only resign Green and Leonard this summer. A team that has Green and Leonard, but no Duncan AND no Aldridge isn't likely to be much more than a marginal playoff team in the West unless it finds some unexpected help elsewhere.

Aldridge (or Gasol) seems like the obvious hedge to try to prevent a substantial backslide (from contender to finishing 7-10 in the conference) when Tim decides he's done.

I get that, but my post was saying go after LMA/Gasol to help win now. That's the most important thing. Your future will be about as secure as you can get as long as you have Kawhi/Danny because when everyone else walks, you will have to impactful young players plus plenty of flexibility too.

[spurs10]

I get that, but my post was saying go after LMA/Gasol to help win now. That's the most important thing. Your future will be about as secure as you can get as long as you have Kawhi/Danny because when everyone else walks, you will have to impactful young players plus plenty of flexibility too. :toast

[Richie]

I get that, but my post was saying go after LMA/Gasol to help win now. That's the most important thing. Your future will be about as secure as you can get as long as you have Kawhi/Danny because when everyone else walks, you will have to impactful young players plus plenty of flexibility too.

I think you're overrating Danny. He works in the system because he's only asked to do 2 things, hit 3s and defend. When we move on from Manu and as Parker ages, I think we'll need a 2 guard who can do more, I don't think he's a piece to build around. Don't get me wrong I think he's a great fit on a contender, but he only fits because he is surrounded by elite playmakers like Duncan, Manu, Parker and Diaw. As Parker/Diaw age and Manu/Tim retire, his burden will increase and it will become ugly.

[Mikeanaro]

Let go Tiago while he still worth something and Danny if he asks too much this team needs some retooling refreshing recharge re-stack.
Get Aldridge and some other guy and thats it.

[ginobilized]

It seems that PATFO are looking for offensive fire power. LA is the way to go for that. The Spurs struggled to put pressure on defenses last year. LA could really open it up for the 3 point shooters. I like the move. Splitter seems like the obvious casualty, but, ya never know what Pop is thinking.

[DPG21920]

I think you're overrating Danny. He works in the system because he's only asked to do 2 things, hit 3s and defend. When we move on from Manu and as Parker ages, I think we'll need a 2 guard who can do more, I don't think he's a piece to build around. Don't get me wrong I think he's a great fit on a contender, but he only fits because he is surrounded by elite playmakers like Duncan, Manu, Parker and Diaw. As Parker/Diaw age and Manu/Tim retire, his burden will increase and it will become ugly.

What elite playmakers were there this year for SA - the year Green broke the record for 3's in a season for the Spurs franchise. Parker had a terrible year as did Manu. Neither of those guys resembled anything close to elite playmakers, yet Danny still thrived.

Even if you want to argue Danny is a system player on offense (which I think is wrong - despite his limitations), you can't argue his defense is system based. Even for his defense alone, it will be great to have a Danny/Kawhi defensive wing combo locked up. You can build around that when you have flexiblity. It makes it so much easier to build with that in place.

[Mikeanaro]

I think you're overrating Danny. He works in the system because he's only asked to do 2 things, hit 3s and defend. When we move on from Manu and as Parker ages, I think we'll need a 2 guard who can do more, I don't think he's a piece to build around. Don't get me wrong I think he's a great fit on a contender, but he only fits because he is surrounded by elite playmakers like Duncan, Manu, Parker and Diaw. As Parker/Diaw age and Manu/Tim retire, his burden will increase and it will become ugly.
Thats how I feel about Green, he is not a guy to build around he works when our main guys are hot but he´s no Horry or Ray Allen, dude lacks that fire can save some RS games but not Playoffs.

[DPG21920]

Thats how I feel about Green, he is not a guy to build around he works when our main guys are hot but he´s no Horry or Ray Allen, dude lacks that fire can save some RS games but not Playoffs.

Danny has saved the Spurs in the playoffs before. Tried to in GM7 of LAC to with one of the best playoff performances from a role player for SA.

[Mikeanaro]

What elite playmakers were there this year for SA - the year Green broke the record for 3's in a season for the Spurs franchise. Parker had a terrible year as did Manu. Neither of those guys resembled anything close to elite playmakers, yet Danny still thrived.

Even if you want to argue Danny is a system player on offense (which I think is wrong - despite his limitations), you can't argue his defense is system based. Even for his defense alone, it will be great to have a Danny/Kawhi defensive wing combo locked up. You can build around that when you have flexiblity. It makes it so much easier to build with that in place.
But he had to defend a hobbled Cris Paul and failed, Danny was slow...I still remember that fast break where he was so slow that DeAndre got there just in time for the block.
And for the love of God he is not a playmaker even if Manu-Enrique sucks, Danny gets the ball if he can shoot well he does it, but if he cant always does that stupid 4 step and a horrible layup play or he passes.

[Mikeanaro]

Danny has saved the Spurs in the playoffs before. Tried to in GM7 of LAC to with one of the best playoff performances from a role player for SA.
Yeah man but that doesnt make it for 6 missing in action games, I want my team winning championships not having good nice people who doesnt have it when it counts.

[DPG21920]

But he had to defend a hobbled Cris Paul and failed, Danny was slow...I still remember that fast break where he was so slow that DeAndre got there just in time for the block.
And for the love of God he is not a playmaker even if Manu-Enrique sucks, Danny gets the ball if he can shoot well he does it, but if he cant always does that stupid 4 step and a horrible layup play or he passes.

Danny defended Paul better than any Spur. CP did the vast majority of his damage when anyone but Danny was guarding him. Danny is not a playmaker, but the argument he is a system player is very difficult to make considering the past two years he's had and the improvements in his game coupled with the decline of TP/Manu.

[BillMc]

Thats how I feel about Green, he is not a guy to build around he works when our main guys are hot but he´s no Horry or Ray Allen, dude lacks that fire can save some RS games but not Playoffs.

If we lose Danny, Beli, and Cojo, and Manu retires or continues to decline our wing depth really has taken a serious hit. Danny's defense is worth a big payday. And when he's on his game our team is borderline unstoppable. I'd like to find a way to keep him, even if the Spurs have to pay the tax. (Though Holt may not allow that).

[Malik Hairston]

It's alarming that Spurs fans are delusional enough to ignore the massive, cancerous tumor at the PG position that will make it extremely difficult to build a contender, going forward, even if they add Aldridge:lol..let alone adding a playmaking 2-guard that won't fit next to Parker..

It's nice to discuss, but thinking about the future when Parker is still on the books for 3 more years is just silly..

[DPG21920]

Yeah man but that doesnt make it for 6 missing in action games, I want my team winning championships not having good nice people who doesnt have it when it counts.

Danny didn't miss in action in 6 games. He missed in action in 3. Danny also won a title with the Spurs and in the year they lost in the finals, Danny broke the NBA finals record for 3's made in a series.

[DPG21920]

If we lose Danny, Beli, and Cojo, and Manu retires or continues to decline our wing depth really has taken a serious hit. Danny's defense is worth a big payday. And when he's on his game our team is borderline unstoppable. I'd like to find a way to keep him, even if the Spurs have to pay the tax. (Though Holt may not allow that).

Luckily, even with a max deal for LMA & Kawhi and Danny making 12M a year, Spurs shouldn't be anywhere close to the LT.

[DPG21920]

It's alarming that Spurs fans are delusional enough to ignore the massive, cancerous tumor at the PG position that will make it extremely difficult to build a contender, going forward, even if they add Aldridge:lol..let alone adding a playmaking 2-guard that won't fit next to Parker..

It's nice to discuss, but thinking about the future when Parker is still on the books for 3 more years is just silly..

TP can't play any worse than this year. Even with that, Spurs were so close to beating LAC and would have beat HOU and been to their 4th straight WCF.

Even if TP stays exactly the same as he did in the playoffs, but Tiago gets healthy & the Spurs add LMA (while keeping Danny) how are they not legit? That's assuming TP gets no better at all.

[Mikeanaro]

Danny defended Paul better than any Spur. CP did the vast majority of his damage when anyone but Danny was guarding him. Danny is not a playmaker, but the argument he is a system player is very difficult to make considering the past two years he's had and the improvements in his game coupled with the decline of TP/Manu.
All Im saying is he is not a key piece for our team, he is kinda worthy, but not 10/12 mil worthy.

[FromWayDowntown]

Just to say it, I don't think the Spurs are getting Aldridge or Gasol.

[Mikeanaro]

If we lose Danny, Beli, and Cojo, and Manu retires or continues to decline our wing depth really has taken a serious hit. Danny's defense is worth a big payday. And when he's on his game our team is borderline unstoppable. I'd like to find a way to keep him, even if the Spurs have to pay the tax. (Though Holt may not allow that).
I was referring to Danny, losing Beli Cojo and Manu or more guys would be a complete disaster but since Danny had a bad series his stock should not be 10-12 mil (is not fair but thats how the game works).
Or at least he could go to the paycut route he is what? 27 years old? well for the next contract they will compensate it like they did with Finley, Manu, Parker etc. thats the Spur way.
Im 100% positive Tiago must go, also I dont see Holt paying the tax either.
In a way we need some fresh blood... some fresh offense.

[DPG21920]

It seems unlikely, I agree, but the potential is there and it's not outlandish at all. There are so many variables though (trades, cap space, competition, etc..).

[Mikeanaro]

He could stay in Portland too, but given his whole family business thing I as a player would take SA over Dallas any day of the week.

[TD 21]

All Im saying is he is not a key piece for our team, he is kinda worthy, but not 10/12 mil worthy.

He's absolutely crucial and forget about the money; it's all relative.

Along with Aldridge, he's really the key to the off season, since Leonard and Duncan aren't going anywhere and neither is Ginobili, unless he retires. All the rest (including one of Splitter or Diaw) are merely collateral damage.

Speaking of Splitter or Diaw, this reminds me of Parker or Hill in '11. I never for a second believed Parker was going to be the one dealt then and though I wouldn't quite go that far in this case (it depends on how would a gap there is in the offers), I don't see Splitter being the one dealt in this case. He'd be the better short and long term fit next to Aldridge, plus he'd be more difficult to replace, for all the obvious reasons.

[DPG21920]

A perfect off season would be Spurs getting LMA while having Tim return and keeping Kawhi/Green/Tiago.

[Richie]

What elite playmakers were there this year for SA - the year Green broke the record for 3's in a season for the Spurs franchise. Parker had a terrible year as did Manu. Neither of those guys resembled anything close to elite playmakers, yet Danny still thrived.

Even if you want to argue Danny is a system player on offense (which I think is wrong - despite his limitations), you can't argue his defense is system based. Even for his defense alone, it will be great to have a Danny/Kawhi defensive wing combo locked up. You can build around that when you have flexiblity. It makes it so much easier to build with that in place.

You've made my point for me. Manu and Parker weren't great this year and Danny isn't a player who is good enough to step up in that void. He will always be able to make threes because he's an elite catch and shoot player, hitting 45% on them last year, but when other guards were struggling he couldn't pick up the slack. Look at someone like Wesley Matthews who has an EFG% of 50% on pull up jump shots vs Green who only hits 40%, hits 50% on drives compared to 40% for Danny and has ability to post up while also being an elite "3&D" player.

Like I say I want to keep him and there's players I'd give up before letting him go, but he's not Wesley Matthews who is more than a system player. Green can only do two things and while he does them very well, we can't count on him to do more as we go forward.

[BillMc]

A perfect off season would be Spurs getting LMA while having Tim return and keeping Kawhi/Green/Tiago.

I agree. Though if push came to shove I'd rather keep Boris over Tiago (if it comes to that).

[Mikeanaro]

He's absolutely crucial and forget about the money; it's all relative.

Along with Aldridge, he's really the key to the off season, since Leonard and Duncan aren't going anywhere and neither is Ginobili, unless he retires. All the rest (including one of Splitter or Diaw) are merely collateral damage.

Speaking of Splitter or Diaw, this reminds me of Parker or Hill in '11. I never for a second believed Parker was going to be the one dealt then and though I wouldn't quite go that far in this case (it depends on how would a gap there is in the offers), I don't see Splitter being the one dealt in this case. He'd be the better short and long term fit next to Aldridge, plus he'd be more difficult to replace, for all the obvious reasons.
I dont feel him as a crucial piece he is just a 3&D guy who cant create plays or his own shot, maybe he is great but not for me at least.
After all this time Tiago still cant even make a mid jumper he is slow and fragile, If he stays someone must go or... Holt should pay a lot of taxes and everybody is happy:lol

[tim_duncan_fan]

I'm down for more Timmy, but Manu should retire. He's done. he had just enough for us to get over in '14 but now he is done.

Tony should retire too. lol

[DPG21920]

I agree. Though if push came to shove I'd rather keep Boris over Tiago (if it comes to that).

To me, Tiago is a much better player than Boris in a bubble. But if it's LMA the Spurs get, I'd rather have Tiago for sure.

[DPG21920]

You've made my point for me. Manu and Parker weren't great this year and Danny isn't a player who is good enough to step up in that void. He will always be able to make threes because he's an elite catch and shoot player, hitting 45% on them last year, but when other guards were struggling he couldn't pick up the slack. Look at someone like Wesley Matthews who has an EFG% of 50% on pull up jump shots vs Green who only hits 40%, hits 50% on drives compared to 40% for Danny and has ability to post up while also being an elite "3&D" player.

Like I say I want to keep him and there's players I'd give up before letting him go, but he's not Wesley Matthews who is more than a system player. Green can only do two things and while he does them very well, we can't count on him to do more as we go forward.

So breaking the record for Spurs 3's while playing elite defense isn't filling the void? Is Kawhi a system player because he couldn't fill the void and advance SA out of the first round?

[ducks]

keeping tp one more year is important
he has chemistry with Duncan and company
then if tp goes downhill further you then would consider to trade him

[TD 21]

I dont feel him as a crucial piece he is just a 3&D guy who cant create plays or his own shot, maybe he is great but not for me at least.
After all this time Tiago still cant even make a mid jumper he is slow and fragile, If he stays someone must go or... Holt should pay a lot of taxes and everybody is happy:lol

No offense, but these are extremely outdated takes. Green and Splitter are "role players", to be sure, but elite ones that would be impossible for this team to replace.

The front office knows this and I trust are intelligent enough to realize that, unless someone comes close to or flat out offers Green the max or blows them away with an offer for Splitter, both need to be retained.

I enjoy watching a focused Diaw play as much as anyone and am as frustrated as anyone with Splitter's lack of durability and occasional bouts of soft play, but this isn't about who you like better or like watching more. This is about what's best for the team, in the present and future.

[cjw]

We'd only need to lose one of those guys to bring in Aldridge, which is more than worth it.

Edit: Depending on what Timmy and Manu want to get paid of course. If they want salarys at the same level as last year then we'd need to get rid of more guys

Losing Splitter should do the trick to bring back everybody else + Aldridge.

[Richie]

So breaking the record for Spurs 3's while playing elite defense isn't filling the void? Is Kawhi a system player because he couldn't fill the void and advance SA out of the first round?

The record needs to be looked at in context. He broke it by 1 and 7 other guys in the league made more 3s this year, that record will continue to tumble over and over in the next decade as teams shoot more.

I'd also say he didn't really step up compared to previous seasons, per 36 minutes his made 3's have been 2.9, 2.9 and 3.0 the past 3 seasons. He came and did what he has always done since he's been here, which is play very good defense and shoot 3s very well, but that's all he'll ever do. There's nothing wrong with that, he is who he is, and that's a player who thrives in a certain situation.

Leonard in contrast took on a much bigger role as a ball handler when Tony and Manu struggled. He showed in the playoffs he may not quite be ready to shoulder the offensive load, but the kid is only 23 and it was his first year really getting his number called. Maybe he'll never be a dominant player with the ball in his hands, but you can see his improvement from his rookie year where he basically played the Green role to now.

[Richie]

No offense, but these are extremely outdated takes. Green and Splitter are "role players", to be sure, but elite ones that would be impossible for this team to replace.

The front office knows this and I trust are intelligent enough to realize that, unless someone comes close to or flat out offers Green the max or blows them away with an offer for Splitter, both need to be retained.

I enjoy watching a focused Diaw play as much as anyone and am as frustrated as anyone with Splitter's lack of durability and occasional bouts of soft play, but this isn't about who you like better or like watching more. This is about what's best for the team, in the present and future.

It's practically sacrilege to say here, but I actually don't think it would be hard to replace 80% of what Green gives us and has potential to become a much more versatile player. Look at someone like Justin Anderson in the draft or a Wesley Matthews, Demarre Carroll, Kyle Korver etc... These are guys who are drafted in the late first/second round and can often be picked up for MLE money on the free agent market by someone willing to take a chance on them, Bowen was the same.

[Malik Hairston]

You've made my point for me. Manu and Parker weren't great this year and Danny isn't a player who is good enough to step up in that void. He will always be able to make threes because he's an elite catch and shoot player, hitting 45% on them last year, but when other guards were struggling he couldn't pick up the slack. Look at someone like Wesley Matthews who has an EFG% of 50% on pull up jump shots vs Green who only hits 40%, hits 50% on drives compared to 40% for Danny and has ability to post up while also being an elite "3&D" player.

Like I say I want to keep him and there's players I'd give up before letting him go, but he's not Wesley Matthews who is more than a system player. Green can only do two things and while he does them very well, we can't count on him to do more as we go forward.

Wes Matthews was widely expected to receive a massive contract prior to his career-altering injury, it's not really a fair comparison, I don't think anybody thinks Green is as good as Matthews was prior to his injury..same with Khris Middleton, widely expected to receive a massive contract, too, substantially more than Green..

The reality is that those types of players are scarce..you aren't going to find many 2-way wing guys that can create for themselves, there are only a handful(Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, Paul George if he's still right, Middleton, Kawhi) and most of them are going to receive max or near-max contracts, at this point..with the progression of advanced metrics and raw numbers becoming an antiquated method of assessing a player's worth, the least valuable players in the NBA have become volume scorers that only give you production on 1 side of the ball..

Even 1-dimensional defensive players like Tony Allen have become obsolete, as well, as we saw once the Warriors adjusted and began guarding him with Andrew Bogut, which is pathetic:lol..

I agree with your overall premise that Green is a better fit on a team with superior creators than the Spurs currently possess, I've mentioned it several times since the Spurs were eliminated..however, what can the Spurs do? They can't sign a viable 2-way SG/SF replacement, because there aren't any realistic options that will be cheaper..if you sign an offensive-minded SG, how do you start him next to the ball-dominant, no-defense playing Parker in the backcourt? The team already struggles to get Kawhi enough looks, it would only get worse by adding another high-volume player..adding another offensive-minded wing player, especially to replace Green, would also imply that Kawhi will be forced to exert more energy defensively, which will naturally impede his offensive responsibility, too..

Your point is valid, the Spurs do need playmaking, especially with Ginobili's impending retirement, but they're in an extremely difficult position with Parker's decline..

[DPG21920]

Those guys you named are all going to make great money. They are not easily replicated and there aren't many proven guys who can do what those 4 guys can do and Green is the most proven of them all. I get the idea of thinking someone who can't create for others like Lebron isn't that useful - but things are changing. Look at Kawhi - he's not a traditional franchise guy. His holes in his offensive game make it strange to peg him as an elite player, but his overall package outweighs that.

[Richie]

Wes Matthews was widely expected to receive a massive contract prior to his career-altering injury, it's not really a fair comparison, I don't think anybody thinks Green is as good as Matthews was prior to his injury..same with Khris Middleton, widely expected to receive a massive contract, too, substantially more than Green..

The reality is that those types of players are scarce..you aren't going to find many 2-way guys that can create for themselves, there are only a handful(Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, Paul George if he's still right, Middleton, Kawhi) and most of them are going to receive max or near-max contracts, at this point..with the progression of advanced metrics and raw numbers becoming an antiquated method of assessing a player's worth, the least valuable players in the NBA have become volume scorers that only give you production on 1 side of the ball..

Even 1-dimensional players like Tony Allen have become obsolete, as well..

I agree with your overall premise that Green is a better fit on a team with better creators than the Spurs currently possess, I've mentioned it several times..however, what can the Spurs do? They can't sign a 2-way SG/SF, because there aren't any realistic options..if you sign an offensive-minded SG, how do you start him next to the ball-dominant, no-defense playing Parker in the backcourt? The team already struggles to get Kawhi enough looks, it would only get worse by adding another high-volume player..

Your point is valid, the Spurs do need playmaking, especially with Ginobili out, but they're in an extremely difficult position with Parker's decline..

My point is that you need to find those guys before they prove themselves. Butler was the #30 pick, Middleton #46, Green #46, Korver #51, Matthews went undrafted, these guys are out there to be had. Obviously it's not easy and I don't want to lose Green as he fulfills an important role for a contender, a team like Memphis would kill for him, but he's not a piece like Leonard who we absolutely have to keep for the future and I feel that's how he is often portrayed.

[Mikeanaro]

No offense, but these are extremely outdated takes. Green and Splitter are "role players", to be sure, but elite ones that would be impossible for this team to replace.

The front office knows this and I trust are intelligent enough to realize that, unless someone comes close to or flat out offers Green the max or blows them away with an offer for Splitter, both need to be retained.

I enjoy watching a focused Diaw play as much as anyone and am as frustrated as anyone with Splitter's lack of durability and occasional bouts of soft play, but this isn't about who you like better or like watching more. This is about what's best for the team, in the present and future.
May be outdated, but even Pop said there will be some retooling so my bet is Tiago will have to go and Pop is doing mind games with Danny to keep him while spending as little as possible.
Splitter is totally replaceable, you have guys like Koufos or Lopez, Tiago had 4 bad playoffs years and just 1 good, the best for the team is to let him go I dont see him getting better only more injury prone and unreliable as the time goes on.

[Malik Hairston]

My point is that you need to find those guys before they prove themselves. Butler was the #30 pick, Middleston #46, Green #46, Matthews went undrafted. Obviously it's not easy and I don't want to lose Green as he fulfills an important role for a contender, a team like Memphis would kill for him, but he's not a piece like Leonard who we absolutely have to keep for the future and I feel that's how he is often portrayed.

I agree, but there's also the "fitting into the system" factor, which is always a process in San Antonio, it's rarely an immediate fit..this team is still trying to win ASAP with Duncan's upcoming retirement and Parker's progressive decline, I assume..

As one of Green's biggest fans here, I'd be pretty surprised if he gets paid enough for the Spurs to lose him..I think he'll receive a fair contract from the Spurs, similar to what Ariza got(similar impact and flaws) + a boost based on the projected increase in the salary cap..maybe a team like the Knicks will overpay him, but that's a disaster waiting to happen, and I think Green realizes that, despite the power that money possesses in controlling somebody:lol..

[ducks]

If green would sign a three year deal with a play opt out next year he could bet on himself and Spurs could pay more next year

[Malik Hairston]

TP can't play any worse than this year. Even with that, Spurs were so close to beating LAC and would have beat HOU and been to their 4th straight WCF.

Even if TP stays exactly the same as he did in the playoffs, but Tiago gets healthy & the Spurs add LMA (while keeping Danny) how are they not legit? That's assuming TP gets no better at all.

His decline has been progressively severe, tbh..look at his numbers from 2013 to 2014 to 2015..severe, progressive decline in all 3 years..I don't think it should be assumed that he can't play as bad as he did this year, tbh..

Spurs are in an impossible position with Parker..they aren't going to trade him or bench him, because of his stature in the organization, and their backup PG isn't conventional, leaving Parker as the only reliable ball-handler on the team..unfortunately, he doesn't really understand how to be a role player, he's still attempting to play the same style as his prime, which clearly isn't working..

They won in 2014 with Ginobili having a resurgence, the best year he had in 4 or 5 seasons, but that was a unique case with Manu's ability to play the facilitator role..where do the Spurs find another playmaker to relieve Parker? The only viable option, at this point, is to trade Mills, unfortunately..

[Richie]

His decline has been progressively severe, tbh..look at his numbers from 2013 to 2014 to 2015..severe, progressive decline in all 3 years..I don't think it should be assumed that he can't play as bad as he did this year, tbh..

Spurs are in an impossible position with Parker..they aren't going to trade him or bench him, because of his stature in the organization, and their backup PG isn't conventional, leaving Parker as the only reliable ball-handler on the team..unfortunately, he doesn't really understand how to be a role player, he's still attempting to play the same style as his prime, which clearly isn't working..

They won in 2014 with Ginobili having a resurgence, the best year he had in 4 or 5 seasons, but that was a unique case with Manu's ability to play the facilitator role..where do the Spurs find another playmaker to relieve Parker? The only viable option, at this point, is to trade Mills, unfortunately..

All else being equal, if we can only keep one of Mills or Cory I'd rather keep Cory. He's a better point guard than Mills, a (marginally) better defender and is actually a very under appreciated shooter. The kid nailed 48% in 12-13 in the D League from 3, but he's never been given the green light by Pop in the NBA. He's also an elite mid range shooter, hitting 47% the past 2 years. Mills is obviously more instant offense, but in a post-Manu world I prefer Joseph.

The salaries make it more complicated but Mills also has more value on the trade block and I wonder how much Cory will get this off-season. Will anyone give him more than the minimum? Will he even get an offer in restricted free agency?

[DPG21920]

His decline has been progressively severe, tbh..look at his numbers from 2013 to 2014 to 2015..severe, progressive decline in all 3 years..I don't think it should be assumed that he can't play as bad as he did this year, tbh..

Spurs are in an impossible position with Parker..they aren't going to trade him or bench him, because of his stature in the organization, and their backup PG isn't conventional, leaving Parker as the only reliable ball-handler on the team..unfortunately, he doesn't really understand how to be a role player, he's still attempting to play the same style as his prime, which clearly isn't working..

They won in 2014 with Ginobili having a resurgence, the best year he had in 4 or 5 seasons, but that was a unique case with Manu's ability to play the facilitator role..where do the Spurs find another playmaker to relieve Parker? The only viable option, at this point, is to trade Mills, unfortunately..

I don't think TP can decline worse than the playoffs. Just impossible. There is no worse. Even with that, Spurs were still this close to making a run even with essentially no Manu either. Unless Kawhi regresses or Tiago is injured, there is no way IMO that adding LA to that mix doesn't keep the Spurs as contenders even with a crappy TP.

Agree a playmaker is an issue, but that's assuming TP plays horrific. If he responds at all, it's not as big of an issue. Still one that needs to be addressed, but Mills isn't a creator anyways so that wouldn't hurt the situation. CJ would have to step up and Spurs would have to find a creator.

[Malik Hairston]

Joseph also looks a lot better when he plays without Manu and Parker, as he's much more aggressive, as we saw in the 1st half of this season..he loses all aggression when he's playing with a primary ball-handler, for whatever reason..

I like Mills more than Joseph, but logically, it makes more sense to move Patty and retain Cojo..Spurs need another ball-handler/playmaker to relieve Parker and replace some of Ginobili's ability, and it would also allow them to keep Green(from a personnel standpoint) and look for a backup SG that can be a spark off the bench and create for himself(I don't have anybody in mind, but a Rodney Stuckey type, although the Spurs obviously wouldn't be able to afford Stuckey himself)..

As much as I love Mills, he doesn't really fit on this team with Parker's decline(Spurs obviously won't trade Tony, unfortunately) and Ginobili's potential retirement..

Regarding Joseph, I live in Toronto and there's been some hype about bringing him home..the Toronto media doesn't really have legit connections to the front office, thus it should be taken with a grain of salt when they discuss these types of things, but the fans are mostly in favor of it, and the front office needs to make moves to get the fanbase excited after 2 embarrassing playoff exits..Ujiri is going to be re-tooling the team, and they need to replace Vasquez after he disappointed, once again, when the games mattered..

[DPG21920]

My point is that you need to find those guys before they prove themselves. Butler was the #30 pick, Middleton #46, Green #46, Korver #51, Matthews went undrafted, these guys are out there to be had. Obviously it's not easy and I don't want to lose Green as he fulfills an important role for a contender, a team like Memphis would kill for him, but he's not a piece like Leonard who we absolutely have to keep for the future and I feel that's how he is often portrayed.

I don't think anyone says DG is an MVP type player. What people are saying is that he's pretty rare and when you have a DG no need to lose him when you can keep him and make everything (competiting now/future) easier.

[rmt]

Spurs really messed themselves over giving Parker that contract. Why in the world were they in a rush to give him it when everyone knows he's not going anywhere. Why not take care of players you're not sure of first - like Leonard and Green. Their only hope to keep the team intact (except for LMA/Splitter) is to pray that Duncan and Manu sign dirt cheap contracts.

[rmt]

All else being equal, if we can only keep one of Mills or Cory I'd rather keep Cory. He's a better point guard than Mills, a (marginally) better defender and is actually a very under appreciated shooter. The kid nailed 48% in 12-13 in the D League from 3, but he's never been given the green light by Pop in the NBA. He's also an elite mid range shooter, hitting 47% the past 2 years. Mills is obviously more instant offense, but in a post-Manu world I prefer Joseph.

The salaries make it more complicated but Mills also has more value on the trade block and I wonder how much Cory will get this off-season. Will anyone give him more than the minimum? Will he even get an offer in restricted free agency?

I disagree. Mills is clutch in the playoffs while Joseph looked reluctant to shoot (much less his inability to hit a 3 - can't have 2 PGs unable to hit 3s). Teams will sag off Joseph, but Mills requires attention. He cannot be left alone at the 3 point line.

[rmt]

I'd rather keep the team as is than get LMA and lose Green. The perimeter defense would be horrific with only Leonard - Parker, Belli, Mills and Manu - yikes. The upgrade in offense from the bigs is not enough to give up on perimeter defense in this perimeter-oriented league. Spurs have enough offense if everyone is healthy.

[ChumpDumper]

It's alarming that Spurs fans are delusional enough to ignore the massive, cancerous tumor at the PG position that will make it extremely difficult to build a contender, going forward, even if they add Aldridge:lol..let alone adding a playmaking 2-guard that won't fit next to Parker..

It's nice to discuss, but thinking about the future when Parker is still on the books for 3 more years is just silly..http://versedonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/The_Leave_Of_Absence-Part_IFRONT-COVER.jpg

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Joseph also looks a lot better when he plays without Manu and Parker, as he's much more aggressive, as we saw in the 1st half of this season..he loses all aggression when he's playing with a primary ball-handler, for whatever reason..

I like Mills more than Joseph, but logically, it makes more sense to move Patty and retain Cojo..Spurs need another ball-handler/playmaker to relieve Parker and replace some of Ginobili's ability, and it would also allow them to keep Green(from a personnel standpoint) and look for a backup SG that can be a spark off the bench and create for himself(I don't have anybody in mind, but a Rodney Stuckey type, although the Spurs obviously wouldn't be able to afford Stuckey himself)..

As much as I love Mills, he doesn't really fit on this team with Parker's decline(Spurs obviously won't trade Tony, unfortunately) and Ginobili's potential retirement..

Regarding Joseph, I live in Toronto and there's been some hype about bringing him home..the Toronto media doesn't really have legit connections to the front office, thus it should be taken with a grain of salt when they discuss these types of things, but the fans are mostly in favor of it, and the front office needs to make moves to get the fanbase excited after 2 embarrassing playoff exits..Ujiri is going to be re-tooling the team, and they need to replace Vasquez after he disappointed, once again, when the games mattered..

Random, but how long have you lived in Toronto for? Never knew you lived here, you like the city?

[Richie]

I disagree. Mills is clutch in the playoffs while Joseph looked reluctant to shoot (much less his inability to hit a 3 - can't have 2 PGs unable to hit 3s). Teams will sag off Joseph, but Mills requires attention. He cannot be left alone at the 3 point line.

Joseph CAN hit 3's, he was around league average this year in the NBA and in 12-13 he hit 48% from 3 in the D-League over 26 games. He only shot 0.7% worse than Mills this season in the NBA, but on far fewer attempts. Joseph is also one of the best mid range shooters in the league over the past 2 years, he shot 47% outside of 12ft last season for 16th in the league (100+ attempts), the same percentage as Dirk. That's ahead of Kawhi (45.5%), Parker (42%) who each took triple the number of attempts.

I'm not saying Joseph is as good a shooter as Mills, but he is a good shooter. He actually shot 41% from 3 in spot ups compared to Patty only hitting 35%, it's the pull up 3's where Patty is much better hitting 32% to Corys 20%, although Patty hit an insane 48% in 13-14.

[Knoxxx]

This is ridiculous I'd rather make a run at Monta Ellis than bring back Green for $10 million +

[Richie]

What I'd enjoy this off season:

Trade Mills for Chicago #22 - Take Justin Anderson
Draft Delon Wright with #26 (or another big man)
Give Splitter away
Sign Joseph for $3m
Bring back Timmy for $6m
Sign Aldridge for the max ($18m)
Sign Kawhi for the max
Sign Green for $10m
Sign Manu for the Room Exception ($2.5m)

Parker/Joseph/Wright
Green/J.Anderson/Manu
Kawhi/K.Anderson
Aldridge/Diaw
Duncan

Find a backup center for the minimum, Baynes back perhaps? Alternatively if Manu retires we can keep Mills, give Joseph the Room Exception and draft a big at #26. Bet none of that happens.

[DPG21920]

This is ridiculous I'd rather make a run at Monta Ellis than bring back Green for $10 million +

Wow. This is the difference between players being in love with "talent" vs winning ability/fit. Not only that, but paying DG 10M vs Monta is a way different due to the salary cap ramifications. You can get Monta for 10M or you can get LMA and Green for 10M.

[DPG21920]

There are so many if's and it's so hard right now to see the big picture, but if the Spurs could end up with Tim/LMA/Tiago what a perfect front court. Holy cow. Especially if Green/Kawhi are both still in SA.

[cutewizard]

Wes Matthews was widely expected to receive a massive contract prior to his career-altering injury, it's not really a fair comparison, I don't think anybody thinks Green is as good as Matthews was prior to his injury..same with Khris Middleton, widely expected to receive a massive contract, too, substantially more than Green..The reality is that those types of players are scarce..you aren't going to find many 2-way wing guys that can create for themselves, there are only a handful(Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, Paul George if he's still right, Middleton, Kawhi) and most of them are going to receive max or near-max contracts, at this point..with the progression of advanced metrics and raw numbers becoming an antiquated method of assessing a player's worth, the least valuable players in the NBA have become volume scorers that only give you production on 1 side of the ball..Even 1-dimensional defensive players like Tony Allen have become obsolete, as well, as we saw once the Warriors adjusted and began guarding him with Andrew Bogut, which is pathetic:lol..I agree with your overall premise that Green is a better fit on a team with superior creators than the Spurs currently possess, I've mentioned it several times since the Spurs were eliminated..however, what can the Spurs do? They can't sign a viable 2-way SG/SF replacement, because there aren't any realistic options that will be cheaper..if you sign an offensive-minded SG, how do you start him next to the ball-dominant, no-defense playing Parker in the backcourt? The team already struggles to get Kawhi enough looks, it would only get worse by adding another high-volume player..adding another offensive-minded wing player, especially to replace Green, would also imply that Kawhi will be forced to exert more energy defensively, which will naturally impede his offensive responsibility, too..Your point is valid, the Spurs do need playmaking, especially with Ginobili's impending retirement, but they're in an extremely difficult position with Parker's decline..simple solution: TRADE PARKER NOW

[DMC]

It's alarming that Spurs fans are delusional enough to ignore the massive, cancerous tumor at the PG position that will make it extremely difficult to build a contender, going forward, even if they add Aldridge:lol..let alone adding a playmaking 2-guard that won't fit next to Parker..

It's nice to discuss, but thinking about the future when Parker is still on the books for 3 more years is just silly..

This is true.

It's like arguing over which drapes match the furniture when the flooring is dilapidated and unstable.

It's like a fat chick putting on lipstick and spending two hours on her hair but no time on the treadmill as if her hair is going to get her there.

It's like finding shit on your burrito at Taco Bell and bitching that they didn't put the black olive on it.

[Sean Cagney]

A perfect off season would be Spurs getting LMA while having Tim return and keeping Kawhi/Green/Tiago.

Yep, so that means no way in hell it will happen.
There are so many if's and it's so hard right now to see the big picture, but if the Spurs could end up with Tim/LMA/Tiago what a perfect front court. Holy cow. Especially if Green/Kawhi are both still in SA.That is probably not possible if Green and Kawhi re-sign. It is the perfect wish I know but I seriously doubt that happens.

[therealtruth]

The issues last year weren't offense. They were defensively. How does LA help that? This seems like RJ 2.0. We need another 20PPG scorer so we'll sacrifice our defense.

[cjw]

Wow. This is the difference between players being in love with "talent" vs winning ability/fit. Not only that, but paying DG 10M vs Monta is a way different due to the salary cap ramifications. You can get Monta for 10M or you can get LMA and Green for 10M.

Thanks for calling him out. People on here are so clueless, they think it's a friggen video game without rules (both in terms of wanting guys who play well when you hold the turbo button + ignoring CBA restrictions).

[Uriel]

What I'd enjoy this off season:

Trade Mills for Chicago #22 - Take Justin Anderson
Draft Delon Wright with #26 (or another big man)
Give Splitter away
Sign Joseph for $3m
Bring back Timmy for $6m
Sign Aldridge for the max ($18m)
Sign Kawhi for the max
Sign Green for $10m
Sign Manu for the Room Exception ($2.5m)

Parker/Joseph/Wright
Green/J.Anderson/Manu
Kawhi/K.Anderson
Aldridge/Diaw
Duncan

Find a backup center for the minimum, Baynes back perhaps? Alternatively if Manu retires we can keep Mills, give Joseph the Room Exception and draft a big at #26. Bet none of that happens.
Is this even possible, in theory? If we make the signings / trades you propose, I don't think we'll have enough cap space to offer LMA a max contract.

[Uriel]

A perfect off season would be Spurs getting LMA while having Tim return and keeping Kawhi/Green/Tiago.
How is this possible?

[DPG21920]

How is this possible?

It's definitely possible if you make some assumptions. If you assume Tim comes back & Manu retires & Tim takes a smaller salary. Then Spurs trade Boris & Mills that would open up the cap space to sign LMA. Then you re-sign Green.

Obviously it all starts with Tim & Manus decisions & how realistic you think it is they take less money. Also how easy will it be to trade Boris/Mills? Just all speculation at the moment but you can see several scenarios where the possibilities are there.

[FireMicoHalili]

"The Spurs will feel out Memphis center Marc Gasol, too, but the prevailing belief now is that Aldridge is more likely to change teams."

1. Whose prevailing belief?
2. No indication of interest fromSpursven from an unknown source.

[palangi]

What I'd enjoy this off season:

Trade Mills for Chicago #22 - Take Justin Anderson
Draft Delon Wright with #26 (or another big man)
Give Splitter away
Sign Joseph for $3m
Bring back Timmy for $6m
Sign Aldridge for the max ($18m)
Sign Kawhi for the max
Sign Green for $10m
Sign Manu for the Room Exception ($2.5m)

Parker/Joseph/Wright
Green/J.Anderson/Manu
Kawhi/K.Anderson
Aldridge/Diaw
Duncan

Find a backup center for the minimum, Baynes back perhaps? Alternatively if Manu retires we can keep Mills, give Joseph the Room Exception and draft a big at #26. Bet none of that happens.
I like this. Except I say let Anderson start. Don't resign green, instead bring Shved in at a lower cost to come off the bench. Let Manu retire. Bring in one of the overseas guys like hanga or the 6'8" kid to be the third SG and spend some time in Austin. I'd also like to see Dorrell wright signed to back up Kawhi.

[Andthentherewas21]

What I'd enjoy this off season:

Trade Mills for Chicago #22 - Take Justin Anderson
Draft Delon Wright with #26 (or another big man)
Give Splitter away
Sign Joseph for $3m
Bring back Timmy for $6m
Sign Aldridge for the max ($18m)
Sign Kawhi for the max
Sign Green for $10m
Sign Manu for the Room Exception ($2.5m)

Parker/Joseph/Wright
Green/J.Anderson/Manu
Kawhi/K.Anderson
Aldridge/Diaw
Duncan

Find a backup center for the minimum, Baynes back perhaps? Alternatively if Manu retires we can keep Mills, give Joseph the Room Exception and draft a big at #26. Bet none of that happens.

My 2 cents real quick:

1. I'd prefer Mills over Cojo at 3 mil per year, assuming Manu doesn't retire. Obviously they bring different things to the table, and given the Bulls recent history with backup PGs I understand the trade proposal. I just think Mills intangibles off the court give him more value than some fans realize, and I think the Mills/Manu pairing works better than Manu/Cojo.

2. I really can't see Tim taking more of a discount than the 10 mil he is getting paid now. I also don't think the FO asks him to do so. He is arguably still a Top 5 player at his position, and is still consistently the 1-2 best player on the team. From Duncan's perspective, he is already taking a discount per his production relative to other players in the league, missing time with his kids, ect. That's not to say that Duncan wouldn't consider taking a discount if it allowed the Spurs to bring in or retain a player/person he really liked, but I have a hard to seeing him giving up money when half the team is being replaced and there is some uncertainty to how everything will come together.

[Johnny RIngo]

Yup. It's insulting to ask Duncan to take a paycut when that French pig is making 14 million and playing like a bottom 5 PG in the NBA. Not to mention the audacity Tony has to be playing for France this summer when he's been bitching about his injuries all year. If he really was hurting in the post-season, shouldn't he be resting this summer?

[ducks]

Yup. It's insulting to ask Duncan to take a paycut when that French pig is making 14 million and playing like a bottom 5 PG in the NBA. Not to mention the audacity Tony has to be playing for France this summer when he's been bitching about his injuries all year. If he really was hurting in the post-season, shouldn't he be resting this summer?

should you not be working

[Malik Hairston]

Yup. It's insulting to ask Duncan to take a paycut when that French pig is making 14 million and playing like a bottom 5 PG in the NBA. Not to mention the audacity Tony has to be playing for France this summer when he's been bitching about his injuries all year. If he really was hurting in the post-season, shouldn't he be resting this summer?

Is he actually playing for France this Summer?

[z0sa]

Mills would be traded fairly easily IMHO. Boris, OTOH, won't be. He had a lot of motivation issues before we signed him mid 2012. He was still a few pounds overweight this season, not bad by any means, and maybe that's where the coaches do want him so I don't know. The real problem is Splitter constantly hurting his vagina and possibly losing Green for nothing if we don't sign LMA.

[Johnny RIngo]

Is he actually playing for France this Summer?

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2015/05/04/parker-diaw-on-frances-preliminary-roster-for-eurobasket-2015/

Tony Parker joins Boris Diaw and former Spur Nando De Colo among 24 players named to France’s preliminary roster for EuroBasket 2015. France is the defending champion, with Parker having earned MVP honors in leading Les Bleus to their first major title at the 2013 competition. He, Diaw and fellow NBA standouts Nicolas Batum and Rudy Gobert have all pledged their intent to participate with France among four host nations.

Despicable behavior from Tony. Spurs gift him an undeserved $45 mil contract and he repays them back by playing off-season basketball for France. Most selfish player in Spur history. Mentally weak Tony needs to raise his confidence playing against Euro scrubs after another piss poor playoffs. This is becoming a tiresome trend with Porker.

[ducks]

you should be happy he will be in shape and so will diaw
you complain he is getting fat
he can not win with you

[ducks]

While he didn’t directly address Parker’s participation with team France, Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said on Monday that he expects him to bounce back.

“Tony didn’t have the year he wanted to have,” Popovich said. “He’s had a lot of good ones. I can tell you he’s already thinking about what he wants to do with his body for next season. So I’m thrilled about his outlook already after a tough loss.”

Parker has said he intends to retire from international competition following the 2016 Olympics. France’s captain since 2003, he has earned 63 official caps with Les Bleus dating back to 2001.

[Johnny RIngo]

Parker has said he intends to retire from international competition following the 2016 Olympics. France’s captain since 2003, he has earned 63 official caps with Les Bleus dating back to 2001.

:lol The faggot plans to play next summer too? Holy shit. Dude has no shame. Stealing $14 mil a year while prioritizing international basketball with France. By far, the most selfish player in Spur history. Fuck this guy.

[RD2191]

:lol The faggot plans to play next summer too? Holy shit. Dude has no shame. Stealing $14 mil a year while prioritizing international basketball with France. By far, the most selfish player in Spur history. Fuck this guy.

[Johnny RIngo]

you should be happy he will be in shape and so will diaw
you complain he is getting fat
he can not win with you

Apparently, the only way Tony can stay in shape is if he's FORCED to play basketball. Thank you for confirming that his work ethic is just as bad as Shaq. He'll probably choose to heal up on company time too.

[Richie]

My 2 cents real quick:

1. I'd prefer Mills over Cojo at 3 mil per year, assuming Manu doesn't retire. Obviously they bring different things to the table, and given the Bulls recent history with backup PGs I understand the trade proposal. I just think Mills intangibles off the court give him more value than some fans realize, and I think the Mills/Manu pairing works better than Manu/Cojo.


I agree with what you're saying here, but I'm thinking a bit bigger picture. Even if Manu comes back, he'll only be back for one more year and then we'll need someone who can run the show off the bench. I prefer CoJo to Mills in that regard.

Also, it's not a straight choice. Would I prefer Mills or CoJo + a mid-late first rounder? Phrased that way, I think it's an easier choice. I love Mills for what he does both on and off the court but he has value on a cheap contract and could net us something in return on draft day, whereas if we lose Joseph is will certainly be for nothing. If we can't get a first rounder for Mills then it's a different story.



2. I really can't see Tim taking more of a discount than the 10 mil he is getting paid now. I also don't think the FO asks him to do so. He is arguably still a Top 5 player at his position, and is still consistently the 1-2 best player on the team. From Duncan's perspective, he is already taking a discount per his production relative to other players in the league, missing time with his kids, ect. That's not to say that Duncan wouldn't consider taking a discount if it allowed the Spurs to bring in or retain a player/person he really liked, but I have a hard to seeing him giving up money when half the team is being replaced and there is some uncertainty to how everything will come together.

I honestly have to question how much he cares about money anymore if it means a shot at another ring. Dude has made over $230m in salary alone, plus more in endorsements, is he really going to care about a couple of million here or there if it's the difference between bringing in a premier free agent?

I think Pop and RC should sit down and tell him to write to numbers on a piece of paper. The first is what he wants if we can get an all star, and the second if we strike out. Lets say that means if we can get Aldridge he would settle for $5-6m, if not we'll bring back the whole group and give him $15m.

[tholdren]

Danny has saved the Spurs in the playoffs before. Tried to in GM7 of LAC to with one of the best playoff performances from a role player for SA.

He played like dog shit overall. Possibly the reason spurs were in a game 7. Mills and Duncan both outplayed green. He's a bitch, and has no toughness. Had he a bruce bowen mentality he would easily be a great player. Too limited offensively with no edge.

[DPG21920]

Yowsa

[Chinook]

Ideal off-season:

1) Agree to trade Diaw, Williams and Mills to Atlanta for 15.

2) Draft Portis at 15 and Wright or Harrison at 26 (and use 55 on the best player who's willing to play in Europe for a year)

3) Complete the Atlanta trade after the moratorium, but offer the Blazers a first and perhaps a little more to make it a three-way trade for Aldridge (who takes a deal starting at $17 Million but with not-likely-to-be-earned incentives that take it to the max).

4) Re-sign Duncan, Green, Leonard and one of Manu/Beli to however much they want (provided Beli can retained with the MLE)

5) Use the MLE to bring if the best four you can (Bass)

6) Re-sign Joseph and maybe Baynes if you can't get anything for him in a sign-and-trade

7) Bring over LJC and perhaps DeShaun Thomas

Roster:

PG - Parker, Joseph, Wright/Harrison
SG - Green, Ginobili/Beli, Anderson
SF - Leonard, LJC, Thomas
PF - Aldridge, Bass, Portis
C - Duncan, Splitter, Baynes

Estimated Tax: 81.6

Problem is, that roster puts the Spurs over the apron, which they can't do if they want to S&T for Aldridge. I guess that Duncan, Green and or Leonard might be persuaded to take a bit less to make room for all those additions, or the Spurs could let go of Cory and not use their MLE to stay under the apron and tax. That's risky, though, unless some bandwagon min guys want to join up. Would be a hell of a lineup, though.

[Seventyniner]

3) Complete the Atlanta trade after the moratorium, but offer the Blazers a first and perhaps a little more to make it a three-way trade for Aldridge (who takes a deal starting at $17 Million but with not-likely-to-be-earned incentives that take it to the max).

Two things about this step:
a) What's the purpose of cheaping out on Aldridge? I mean why not offer the full max without incentives? Some players would be insulted by being offered less than the max. In fact, if Aldridge goes the S&T route, he might insist on the 5-year $107M deal. Both start at $18.6M.
b) What would Portland get back in this deal? I doubt the Hawks will give up more than #15 for Diaw and Mills. Maybe that pick and perhaps the Spurs' #26 would get routed to Portland?

[DPG21920]

How are you using the MLE when it appears you are S&T Aldridge w cap space (Boris/Mills = 10M)

[Uriel]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/2015/05/04/parker-diaw-on-frances-preliminary-roster-for-eurobasket-2015/

Tony Parker joins Boris Diaw and former Spur Nando De Colo among 24 players named to France’s preliminary roster for EuroBasket 2015. France is the defending champion, with Parker having earned MVP honors in leading Les Bleus to their first major title at the 2013 competition. He, Diaw and fellow NBA standouts Nicolas Batum and Rudy Gobert have all pledged their intent to participate with France among four host nations.

Despicable behavior from Tony. Spurs gift him an undeserved $45 mil contract and he repays them back by playing off-season basketball for France. Most selfish player in Spur history. Mentally weak Tony needs to raise his confidence playing against Euro scrubs after another piss poor playoffs. This is becoming a tiresome trend with Porker.
France will host FIBA EuroBasket 2015.

I can't think of anything more unselfish than sacrificing your body after a long year of arduous basketball to play for free in front of your hometown fans for nothing but the glory of your own country.

[tholdren]

France will host FIBA EuroBasket 2015.

I can't think of anything more unselfish than sacrificing your body after a long year of arduous basketball to play for free in front of your hometown fans for nothing but the glory of your own country.

New York is looking to trade their draft pick. If I were the coach I would send Parker packing.

[Ice009]

My point is that you need to find those guys before they prove themselves. Butler was the #30 pick, Middleton #46, Green #46, Korver #51, Matthews went undrafted, these guys are out there to be had. Obviously it's not easy and I don't want to lose Green as he fulfills an important role for a contender, a team like Memphis would kill for him, but he's not a piece like Leonard who we absolutely have to keep for the future and I feel that's how he is often portrayed.

How did the Spurs miss out on Matthews? When he was in Utah, I thought that I read he was from San Antonio. I got mad when I read that as he was exactly the type of player we needed back then.

I'm pretty interested in Matthews. What do you guys think he's worth with his current injury, and do you think he can recover? I also recall hearing that he's good friends with Lamarcus Aldridge? Any chance the Spurs can somehow bring him in if they get Aldridge? Would teams be reluctant to sign him to a big contract? Do you think he's going to have to prove himself again after he's recovered from the injury before anyone offers him what he was worth before the injury?

[Johnny RIngo]

France will host FIBA EuroBasket 2015.

I can't think of anything more unselfish than sacrificing your body after a long year of arduous basketball to play for free in front of your hometown fans for nothing but the glory of your own country.

Spurs aren't paying this faggot $14 mil/year to play for France. SA gave him that overly generous contract he didn't deserve. Now he has to reciprocate and fuck off with these peewee tournaments and actually work on improving himself and his game this summer after that garbage season he just gave the fans. If he ends up playing for France after bitching all year about being tired and injured, then he deserves no sympathy from anyone. Fuck this French cocksucker. It's obvious where his loyalties lie and it sure as hell isn't with Duncan and the Spurs.

[AFBlue]

Spurs aren't paying this faggot $14 mil/year to play for France. SA gave him that overly generous contract he didn't deserve. Now he has to reciprocate and fuck off with these peewee tournaments and actually work on improving himself and his game this summer after that garbage season he just gave the fans. If he ends up playing for France after bitching all year about being tired and injured, then he deserves no sympathy from anyone. Fuck this French cocksucker. It's obvious where his loyalties lie and it sure as hell isn't with Duncan and the Spurs.

Ginobili played for his NT while on a max extension. Does that make him equally the "most selfish player in franchise history"? Who is saying he deserves sympathy? The Spurs are clearly ok with their star players playing for their home country, so why can't you be? Unlije them, you literally have no skin in the game.

[Chinook]

Two things about this step:
a) What's the purpose of cheaping out on Aldridge? I mean why not offer the full max without incentives? Some players would be insulted by being offered less than the max. In fact, if Aldridge goes the S&T route, he might insist on the 5-year $107M deal. Both start at $18.6M.
b) What would Portland get back in this deal? I doubt the Hawks will give up more than #15 for Diaw and Mills. Maybe that pick and perhaps the Spurs' #26 would get routed to Portland?

a) That's the max the Spurs can pay by trading those three players. If they added Splitter instead of Diaw, then they would be a lot closer. Also, Aldridge can only get a five-year deal if he stays in Portland.
b) The Spurs would offer the incentive. A first or potentially two. They wouldn't offer 26, though, since they would have already used it and since they need the cheap depth in this scenario.

[Seventyniner]

Also, Aldridge can only get a five-year deal if he stays in Portland.

I forgot that the rule on that had changed.

[Andthentherewas21]

I honestly have to question how much he cares about money anymore if it means a shot at another ring. Dude has made over $230m in salary alone, plus more in endorsements, is he really going to care about a couple of million here or there if it's the difference between bringing in a premier free agent?

I think Pop and RC should sit down and tell him to write to numbers on a piece of paper. The first is what he wants if we can get an all star, and the second if we strike out. Lets say that means if we can get Aldridge he would settle for $5-6m, if not we'll bring back the whole group and give him $15m.

I see where your coming from, and by no means do I think Duncan is strictly motivated by some financial interest. However, I do think money still plays a role in equation. He has made a considerable amount over his career but remember 1/2 that is gone in taxes, another $20 mil potentially lost by bad investments with a crooked financial adviser, his divorce settlement, NBA lifestyle for 18 years, ect. He still probably has a considerable amount of money, but probably less than the average person would believe given his past salary.

Looking at it from another angle though, I think the contract offer is an important sign of support from the FO and status within the team and league. Nobody wants to be undervalued at what they do, especially when other people who contribute less would be getting more. Maybe that's just me projecting, or maybe Duncan's truly a saint, but I have a hard time seeing him being ok with Parker, Green, Kawhi, and potentially LA making double/triple his salary, plus Splitter/Diaw both making more than him while he is essentially settling for the MLE.

As for the winning aspect, after seeing his reaction in Game 7 of the 2013 Finals, I have no doubt he wants to win as much as anyone in the league. But I also think hes out there just enjoying the time he has left, and isn't necessarily interested in bringing in talent just for the sake of bringing it in. It would have to be the right all-star or group of role players. It seems he has grown pretty close with this group, and as I alluded to in my first post, its hard to justify taking a drastic paycut when your losing that close-knit group and bringing in other people without the certainty that it will work out.

[ducks]

in Portland he would get 5 unless spurs sign and trade splitter to them
or in sa he signs 4 with op opt in 2 and get bigger max then

[Ed Helicopter Jones]

I haven't bothered to try to understand the tax implications of the impending spike in the salary cap, but I have wondered if teams will be willing to take on a short-term, low-end tax bill this summer with the knowledge that the cap will increase dramatically (as, I assume, will the tax thresholds) and move them out of the tax by the summer of 2016 (and save them from having to face the repeater penalties and such).

I was wondering the same thing. I know it's easy for us to sit here and spend other people's money, but I'd venture that the Spurs probably won't let a single year's tax for exceeding the cap prevent them from trying to build the best team possible, knowing that they can fall back within the cap next year (presumably). They are one of the best teams at thinking long-term, so it wouldn't surprise me to see them building their roster to be ready of the summer of '16 changes rather than focusing solely on this summer's cap restrictions.

[DPG21920]

Agreed EhJ. I don't think a one year tax is an issue, even for Spurs. I also don't think it's likely they pay tax to build the team they want.

[DPG21920]

How are you using the MLE when it appears you are S&T Aldridge w cap space (Boris/Mills = 10M)


a) That's the max the Spurs can pay by trading those three players. If they added Splitter instead of Diaw, then they would be a lot closer. Also, Aldridge can only get a five-year deal if he stays in Portland.
b) The Spurs would offer the incentive. A first or potentially two. They wouldn't offer 26, though, since they would have already used it and since they need the cheap depth in this scenario.

Chinook - this was intended for you. What am I missing?

[Chinook]

Chinook - this was intended for you. What am I missing?

Diaw, Mills and Williams will make about $12 Million. CBA rules say you can take back $5 Million more than you send out, so the Spurs can only offer LA $17 Million. But if he takes it, they would never have to drop below the cap, and they would keep their exceptions and Bird rights.

[DPG21920]

Diaw, Mills and Williams will make about $12 Million. CBA rules say you can take back $5 Million more than you send out, so the Spurs can only offer LA $17 Million. But if he takes it, they would never have to drop below the cap, and they would keep their exceptions and Bird rights.

Ahh, I missed the Williams part. Appreciate it.

[Chinook]

If Duncan is willing to take $5 Million, then my scenario is a lot more plausible. Or if he and Manu are willing to split $7-8 Million.

[DPG21920]

If Duncan is willing to take $5 Million, then my scenario is a lot more plausible. Or if he and Manu are willing to split $7-8 Million.

That is the baseline I've been using in either scenario (over the cap, using cap space). If he's willing to do that (not expected) that goes a long way. Especially in the cap space route.

[Mugen]

I personally hate that team that Chinook put together a few posts above. Trading Mills & Diaw away would be a huge mistake just to get a career loser like Aldridge smh.

[monkeypunk]

I wouldn't be surprised if TD is willing to take the vet min but that PATFO feel that would be disrespectful to TD given what he has done for the team. Hopefully they all come to the same conclusion that the team needs outweigh perceived TD needs in needing to be paid a higher salary so they can bring on talent without gutting the team.

[szkorhetz]

Duncan Named All-NBA third team!

[Chinook]

I personally hate that team that Chinook put together a few posts above. Trading Mills & Diaw away would be a huge mistake just to get a career loser like Aldridge smh.

By all means, post your own idea. I think that's easily the best the Spurs could do with what they have to work with. But obviously, I don't really know how it's going to shake out. I was going to start a Mock Off-Season thread, but I didn't want it derailed with Anti-Parker nonsense.

[Mugen]

By all means, post your own idea. I think that's easily the best the Spurs could do with what they have to work with. But obviously, I don't really know how it's going to shake out. I was going to start a Mock Off-Season thread, but I didn't want it derailed with Anti-Parker nonsense.

no offense tbh. i just dont like that team. it's a departure from what's made the Spurs great these last couple of seasons. i haven't really sat back and analyzed what the Spurs' options are this offseason but LMA and Gasol is a long shot and I'm fine with that. I'm of the mind that this team doesn't need wholesale changes to compete. Just a few tweaks plus a long summer should help them give it one last go next year.

The team will be irrelevant as far as championship contending goes once Duncan retires anyways.

[Mugen]

vet min would be a slap in the face of Timmy and Manu tbh. I hope it doesn't come down to that.

Same with Danny taking a paycut. Get your money, you've earned it.

[DPG21920]

I personally hate that team that Chinook put together a few posts above. Trading Mills & Diaw away would be a huge mistake just to get a career loser like Aldridge smh.

Wow - really? I love Boris & Patty but if you can bring back the same team less Mills (because you're swapping Boris with LA) how is that not amazing? Unless you think Mills is so important that he's worth more than the gap between LA & Boris.

Boris was a loser too before the Spurs. You put LA on a team where he doesn't have to be alpha and that's amazing.

I just don't see why ATL would trade their pick for those 3.

[Chinook]

no offense tbh. i just dont like that team. it's a departure from what's made the Spurs great these last couple of seasons. i haven't really sat back and analyzed what the Spurs' options are this offseason but LMA and Gasol is a long shot and I'm fine with that. I'm of the mind that this team doesn't need wholesale changes to compete. Just a few tweaks plus a long summer should help them give it one last go next year.

The team will be irrelevant as far as championship contending goes once Duncan retires anyways.

No offense taken, btb. As I said, I wanted to do mock off-seasons, but there'd be too many "trade Parker" or "it doesn't matter as long as Parker is on the team" posts, and I can't do anything about them on the general forum.

I don't think that the roster I proposed is a departure from what's been working more than it has to be with Manu and Tim getting older and Parker getting more ineffective. The Spurs need a blue-chip offensive player, and they get one with Aldridge. Both the SL and the bench have great balance with defenders at both levels and smart offensive guys.

I also think getting the 15th pick would be a huge boost, especially if the right guy falls. I don't know if Portis is that guy, but he looks like he'll just be a nice, solid big in the pros. He goes well with Baynes as part of a post-Duncan bench. Obviously, if the Spurs land a true impact player at that spot, then it would go down as one of the best off-seasons in league history.

[Chinook]

Wow - really? I love Boris & Patty but if you can bring back the same team less Mills (because you're swapping Boris with LA) how is that not amazing? Unless you think Mills is so important that he's worth more than the gap between LA & Boris.

Boris was a loser too before the Spurs. You put LA on a team where he doesn't have to be alpha and that's amazing.

I just don't see why ATL would trade their pick for those 3.

I think that if the Hawks can't trade up, then they will trade down. They don't need middling talent anymore than anyone else does. However, my concern would be that Bud and Ferry know the Spurs' scouting habits. They probably have the same players on their target list. If they need Spurs like someone at 15, the Hawks probably do too. And if they think he can be the next Leonard, then they may not want to give up the pick, even for those three guys.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

By all means, post your own idea. I think that's easily the best the Spurs could do with what they have to work with. But obviously, I don't really know how it's going to shake out. I was going to start a Mock Off-Season thread, but I didn't want it derailed with Anti-Parker nonsense.

This'd be great, no doubt there'd be anti-Parker posts and bullshit, but at least there'd be one thread to talk about serious things in, instead of the whole first page filled with Harlem and Harlem 2 threads of nonsense.

As for your scenario, I like it, even though I'd prefer keeping Diaw over Splitter because of his playmaking, especially if Manu retires, though I realize Splitter would be the better fit on paper. Are you that high on Portis at 15 though with Kaminsky, Dekker and Anderson likely on board at that point?

[Richie]

Ideal off-season:

1) Agree to trade Diaw, Williams and Mills to Atlanta for 15.

Atlanta can't take that amount of salary. They're under the cap but have holds on Millsap and Carroll they won't renounce.

[Chinook]

Atlanta can't take that amount of salary. They're under the cap but have holds on Millsap and Carroll they won't renounce.

It should actually be pretty close. Neither of those Hawks players will have the cap holds that reflect their eventual salaries. It's close enough where the Spurs might have to give some cash for a team like Philly to absorb William's contract to make up the difference.

[Richie]

It should actually be pretty close. Neither of those Hawks players will have the cap holds that reflect their eventual salaries. It's close enough where the Spurs might have to give some cash for a team like Philly to absorb William's contract to make up the difference.

I don't think it's that close at all, Antic, Millsap and Carroll have a combined cap hold of $17m, combined with their $42m committed it puts them at $59m and only $8m room. Waiving Antic and Muscala (50% gtd) only gives them $10m in space and I don't see them doing that.

I would love to trade them Mills + #26 for #15, but with Teague and Schroeder they have no need for him.

[Ditty]

From Dallasbasketball.com:

Take this for what it's worth, but a friend of mine works at a megachurch in Carrollton who had an event last night in which Alridge was in attendance. They had him back in the green room and my buddy, who is a huge Mavs fan, actually had the balls to ask some pretty straightforward questions and got some surprisingly straightforward answers. Here are some of the highlights from his answers:

- Said his preferences are to come play in either Dallas or LA. However, said he would NOT play with Rondo.

- Said he just finished building a house in Dallas that took him 3 years.

- Said while he would love to play in Dallas, he's worried that it would be awkward with Dirk coming off the bench behind him.

- Said he thinks Lebron is great, but Kobe is on another level and he has always had a very deep regard for him.

- Was asked who the toughest guy he's ever had to guard is and his response was "Tim Duncan, by far".

I'm pretty good friends with this guy and he would have no reason to lie or embellish this story to me, so it gives me a little hope to know that Dallas is a frontrunner. Also leaves me a little worried that LA will no doubt land Okafor or Towns and be able to offer a max deal to Aldridge and that he has such a deep regard for Kobe. Sounds like the only thing Dallas has going is the fact that he is from here and lives here during the offseason. Was a little surprised that Aldridge wasn't more tight-lipped about the situation as players during this time usually are.

[DPG21920]

:lol

[RD2191]

:lol

[TD 21]

It's practically sacrilege to say here, but I actually don't think it would be hard to replace 80% of what Green gives us and has potential to become a much more versatile player. Look at someone like Justin Anderson in the draft or a Wesley Matthews, Demarre Carroll, Kyle Korver etc... These are guys who are drafted in the late first/second round and can often be picked up for MLE money on the free agent market by someone willing to take a chance on them, Bowen was the same.

The differences between then and now is, the masses have caught on to the value of legit 3 and D wings, plus the cap is about to skyrocket, so the days of getting those players for the MLE or lower are over.

There's no chance the Spurs could replace 80% of what Green can bring. Not only is he more rare than you're giving him credit for (for example, Matthews is more well rounded, but not quick enough laterally to defend PG's), but if they sign Aldridge and don't re-sign him, they'll be capped out, with limited trade assets.

Maybe Anderson develops into a 3 and D type, but this is a team still trying to contend in the interim. The likelihood of some rookie picked at 26 playing a key role is highly unlikely.



May be outdated, but even Pop said there will be some retooling so my bet is Tiago will have to go and Pop is doing mind games with Danny to keep him while spending as little as possible.
Splitter is totally replaceable, you have guys like Koufos or Lopez, Tiago had 4 bad playoffs years and just 1 good, the best for the team is to let him go I dont see him getting better only more injury prone and unreliable as the time goes on.

Splitter is not going anywhere unless it's as a cap clearing move to sign Aldridge (I still think Diaw is more likely) or, like almost any player, if someone blows them away.

Splitter is not replaceable. Like Green, he's more rare than you're giving him credit for and again, if they sign Aldridge, they'll be capped out, with limited trade assets. So forget about signing Koufos or Lopez (neither of whom can defend PF's or pass like him anyway).

[Mnky]

Splitter is not replaceable. Like Green, he's more rare than you're giving him credit for and again, if they sign Aldridge, they'll be capped out, with limited trade assets. So forget about signing Koufos or Lopez (neither of whom can defend PF's or pass like him anyway).

Splitter and green versus the clippers is replaceable. Splitter is never healthy, and green can slow people down, and has great team help, but with the type of teams you play in the west, they're going to score. You need players who take the burden off your starters On offense as well. Offense has evolved and isn't dominated by defense anymore, unless of course you're Kawhi. You saw it with patty mills. Can't do much on defense, but even as a role player would change the game. You have to be able to create Offense. Tiago and Green struggle with this. For the loss in defense, if you increase the offensive potency, you're just fine. Definitely replaceable. Remember what green and tiago were before the system made their careers. Danny couldn't stay in the NBA. The Spurs developed him.The spurs system can do the same for others.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Splitter and green versus the clippers is replaceable. Splitter is never healthy, and green can slow people down, and has great team help, but with the type of teams you play in the west, they're going to score. You need players who take the burden off your starters On offense as well. Offense has evolved and isn't dominated by defense anymore, unless of course you're Kawhi. You saw it with patty mills. Can't do much on defense, but even as a role player would change the game. You have to be able to create Offense. Tiago and Green struggle with this. For the loss in defense, if you increase the offensive potency, you're just fine. Definitely replaceable. Remember what green and tiago were before the system made their careers. Danny couldn't stay in the NBA. The Spurs developed him.The spurs system can do the same for others.

If Parker would have shown up last game of Clips series, Danny did more than enough that game to get us to the second round.

[ducks]

Lma might not think Spurs would go after him with Duncan

[Richie]

The differences between then and now is, the masses have caught on to the value of legit 3 and D wings, plus the cap is about to skyrocket, so the days of getting those players for the MLE or lower are over.

There's no chance the Spurs could replace 80% of what Green can bring. Not only is he more rare than you're giving him credit for (for example, Matthews is more well rounded, but not quick enough laterally to defend PG's), but if they sign Aldridge and don't re-sign him, they'll be capped out, with limited trade assets.

Maybe Anderson develops into a 3 and D type, but this is a team still trying to contend in the interim. The likelihood of some rookie picked at 26 playing a key role is highly unlikely.

Kawhi came in as a Rookie and filled that role. He was drafted higher up because he had more potential but rookies can come in and make an impact immediately, especially in a limited role like Greens. Don't forget that before 2011 when we signed Green permanently, he had only played 28 NBA games and shot 32% from 3 and 8 of those were in blowouts the year before for us. On our run to the 2012 WCF our wing rotation of Green/Kawhi was basically two rookies. Someone like Anderson or Hollis-Jefferson with an NBA ready body could play right away. I agree that we would be capped out of assets though.

I actually don't think that the league has caught on tbh, defense is still very much an under-drafted skill. We may not be able to find someone else on par with both his shooting and defense, but I think we can find 80% of what he brings through either the draft or free agency.

[FireMicoHalili]

the way Berger has got some people talking without citing any solid sources is just...fantastic

[Malik Hairston]

the way Berger has got some people talking without citing any solid sources is just...fantastic

Getting hits for your articles during the off-season is probably the easiest part of being a sportswriter/reporter, tbh:lol..

[Mnky]

If Parker would have shown up last game of Clips series, Danny did more than enough that game to get us to the second round.

That's not the argument. What he did do, is replaceable. I don't put that series on either one of them, just pointing out that what they did provide wasn't "irreplaceable" and we were still one baskst away from walking to the western conference finals again. It's not the doom day expperience losing splitter and green that the majority of people are buying into because a media pundit said So.

That series was definitely on Parker. I don't think anyone can Argue that. He had horrible decision making, rushed bad percentage shots when we had a lead,extending the time for the clippers in two games for them to come back. He also would not feed the hot players or make plays to get them open. All around just a poor series for him. I think he shot around 35% for the series? That's without mentioning his slow pick and roll defense and lazy transition defense where his man was constantly getting a wide open three.

[Chinook]

That's not the argument. What he did do, is replaceable. I don't put that series on either one of them, just pointing out that what they did provide wasn't "irreplaceable" and we were still one baskst away from walking to the western conference finals again. It's not the doom day expperience losing splitter and green that the majority of people are buying into because a media pundit said So.

The Spurs would have lost in the first round last year without Splitter. Don't think so? They lost in the first round this season without a healthy Splitter. It wasn't a coincidence, and it certainly wasn't a sign that the Spurs need to trade Tiago, like some folks seem to think it was. Honestly, Splitter is the most irreplaceable defender on the team. I don't know if there's a better one-on-one big defender in the league. Not to mention the PnR defense and rim protection he provides.

Green is pretty much at that level. Obviously, if he played every game like the played that final one, he'd be a max guy. But he doesn't usually get that close, so he won't get max money. But you want Green's man defense and rim protection on D and on O you want his shooting as well as his gravity, which is what's getting overlooked here. I'm pretty sure someone posted earlier in the year that Green was up there with Curry and Korver when it comes to the extent to which their men stick to them. The fact that Green almost always prevents help from coming from his side is really hard to replace, even if the shooting percentage isn't.

[CGD]

Ideal off-season:

1) Agree to trade Diaw, Williams and Mills to Atlanta for 15.

Any other team that would be willing to be a trade partner in that range? Looking at the list it would almost HAVE to be Atlanta.

The other team might be Utah at 12. They already have a solid core of young players, but could stand to bring in the right type of vets to help the team take the next step. Spurs could also swap picks.

Moving Mills would mean keeping Belli somehow. Pop values that instant offense / Eddie House kind of guy off the bench. Can't lose them both.

[Mr. Body]

Not like these ideas will come to fruition, but wiping Diaw and Mills out seems like a bad idea, even for a player close to star-level in Aldridge (or there). I hate wiping out your hugely productive bench players. If anything, I'd do away with Splitter. I understand the arguments about how important he is, but he simply is not healthy enough to be dependable. If you want LMA, you have to trust he can cover well enough for Splitter, because he's literally taking his role. You leave Diaw and Mills on your bench. The team isn't the same without them.

[wildchild]

But you want Green's man defense and rim protection on D and on O you want his shooting as well as his gravity, which is what's getting overlooked here.

I want. I WANT.
But Pop wants him at any cost/any money?. That's my only worry.

We watched Pop played Beli a lot of minutes and if a defensive scrub like Beli can get long minutes over Danny, Pop can think another player could replace Danny?
Don't get me wrong I don't hate Marco, he was good, made big shots and gave his all, I'm just talking about defense.

Sometimes I'd like to imagine Pop thinking...Yeah I was ruthless on him because Danny didn't know how good he could be.

But at other times, it seems like Pop really thinks that Danny isn't that great.

[wildchild]

Having Splitter and Aldridge would be a luxury, but having both isn't necessary.

It's necessary because Tim won't play more than next season.
Who'll defend the paint? With Aldridge, rim protection is going to be a real issue against elite teams.

And we watched Diaw trying to guard Griffin...Just imagine him against Davis, Cousins, Gasol...

[DPG21920]

Not like these ideas will come to fruition, but wiping Diaw and Mills out seems like a bad idea, even for a player close to star-level in Aldridge (or there). I hate wiping out your hugely productive bench players. If anything, I'd do away with Splitter. I understand the arguments about how important he is, but he simply is not healthy enough to be dependable. If you want LMA, you have to trust he can cover well enough for Splitter, because he's literally taking his role. You leave Diaw and Mills on your bench. The team isn't the same without them.

In this scenario, you are shifting Splitter to the bench though - so now you have a really successful player and anchor on your bench in Tiago (plus the better fit overall for team need - defense). You lose Mills, but that role can be replaced easier IMO.

[Mnky]

The Spurs would have lost in the first round last year without Splitter. Don't think so? They lost in the first round this season without a healthy Splitter. It wasn't a coincidence, and it certainly wasn't a sign that the Spurs need to trade Tiago, like some folks seem to think it was. Honestly, Splitter is the most irreplaceable defender on the team. I don't know if there's a better one-on-one big defender in the league. Not to mention the PnR defense and rim protection he provides.

Green is pretty much at that level. Obviously, if he played every game like the played that final one, he'd be a max guy. But he doesn't usually get that close, so he won't get max money. But you want Green's man defense and rim protection on D and on O you want his shooting as well as his gravity, which is what's getting overlooked here. I'm pretty sure someone posted earlier in the year that Green was up there with Curry and Korver when it comes to the extent to which their men stick to them. The fact that Green almost always prevents help from coming from his side is really hard to replace, even if the shooting percentage isn't.


Good arguments, but it's Not what I was saying again. I believe if we had a healthy team we walk to the finals again. I agree there. Tiago is great at what he's asked to do, so is green. I agree there too. Neither one was before the spurs. In my opinion, people are not giving the spurs developmental group enough Credit.

They are replaceable, doesn't mean they Will be, or it will be easy but if you ask me which is more responsible for their play, the players themselves or the front office, I'd definitely say the front office.
They can do it again. The fact that the spurs were willing to move Parker a couple years ago for a lottery pick let's you know how much confidence they have in thir process as well.

[TD 21]

Splitter and green versus the clippers is replaceable. Splitter is never healthy, and green can slow people down, and has great team help, but with the type of teams you play in the west, they're going to score. You need players who take the burden off your starters On offense as well. Offense has evolved and isn't dominated by defense anymore, unless of course you're Kawhi. You saw it with patty mills. Can't do much on defense, but even as a role player would change the game. You have to be able to create Offense. Tiago and Green struggle with this. For the loss in defense, if you increase the offensive potency, you're just fine. Definitely replaceable. Remember what green and tiago were before the system made their careers. Danny couldn't stay in the NBA. The Spurs developed him.The spurs system can do the same for others.

:lol Taking a small sample size, where one of them was hurt and determining their worth based off of that.

You act as if Green is Roberson on offense. The problem with this team wasn't that Green and Splitter couldn't create their own offense (if that were the case, they don't go to 3 straight WCF, two straight Finals and win a championship), it was that their two best creators both fell off the face of the earth last season. Nobody has creators at every spot.

:lol Thinking you can win a championship by being imbalanced. They were at their lowest point in the Duncan era from '09-'11, because their defense (and depth) was no longer championship caliber and that was with the big three closer to their collective prime.


Kawhi came in as a Rookie and filled that role. He was drafted higher up because he had more potential but rookies can come in and make an impact immediately, especially in a limited role like Greens. Don't forget that before 2011 when we signed Green permanently, he had only played 28 NBA games and shot 32% from 3 and 8 of those were in blowouts the year before for us. On our run to the 2012 WCF our wing rotation of Green/Kawhi was basically two rookies. Someone like Anderson or Hollis-Jefferson with an NBA ready body could play right away. I agree that we would be capped out of assets though.

I actually don't think that the league has caught on tbh, defense is still very much an under-drafted skill. We may not be able to find someone else on par with both his shooting and defense, but I think we can find 80% of what he brings through either the draft or free agency.

Leonard was obviously an exception to the rule. Rookies can make an immediate impact obviously, but not often for a team with championship aspirations. The odds of Anderson (forget Hollis-Jefferson, who can't shoot) being able to provide 80% of what Green does, as a rookie, are extremely unlikely.

They league has caught on, which is why Matthews (before tearing his Achilles, at least), Middleton, Carroll and Green, are all in line to get probably at least $10M annually this off season. Some of that is related to the spike in the cap, of course, but even under the current cap, they'd all easily exceed mid level money.

[Richie]

Leonard was obviously an exception to the rule. Rookies can make an immediate impact obviously, but not often for a team with championship aspirations. The odds of Anderson (forget Hollis-Jefferson, who can't shoot) being able to provide 80% of what Green does, as a rookie, are extremely unlikely.

They league has caught on, which is why Matthews (before tearing his Achilles, at least), Middleton, Carroll and Green, are all in line to get probably at least $10M annually this off season. Some of that is related to the spike in the cap, of course, but even under the current cap, they'd all easily exceed mid level money.

Next season you're probably right about Anderson, but I think he could give us most of what Green gave us in 2012. The Spurs have never thought short-term, and over the next 4 years would I rather Anderson on a rookie deal or Green on $45m? I'm not sure the answer is so easy, of course Anderson is still an unknown quantity and may never fulfil his potential, at least with Green we know what we're getting.

As for the league catching on, I'm still not sure I agree. The players you mentioned will absolutely be getting around $10m or more, but that's because they are established already. Just two years ago Atlanta got Carroll for $2.5m, and Middleton was basically a throw in for the Jennings/Knight trade. My position is a difficult one in that I'm saying 'they're out there' without any knowledge of who it will be, because if I could identify NBA talent I'd be a scout, but I am fairly sure that in a couple years there will be a guy doing a good job for a playoff team in a 3&D role who is sitting in the D League or abroad right now. Patrick Beverley is another example, albeit at the point guard position.

[Richie]

MarShon Brooks is an example of someone who could be a steal on a minimum contract if he is willing to accept the role. He has all the tools to be a decent defender and big time player, but he's out of the league because he doesn't do it. Maybe he's matured and is ready to do what it takes to become a role player? But probably not.

[james evans]

if getting rid of Parker isn't one of the things they're doing, I'm not interested.

[TD 21]

Next season you're probably right about Anderson, but I think he could give us most of what Green gave us in 2012. The Spurs have never thought short-term, and over the next 4 years would I rather Anderson on a rookie deal or Green on $45m? I'm not sure the answer is so easy, of course Anderson is still an unknown quantity and may never fulfil his potential, at least with Green we know what we're getting.

As for the league catching on, I'm still not sure I agree. The players you mentioned will absolutely be getting around $10m or more, but that's because they are established already. Just two years ago Atlanta got Carroll for $2.5m, and Middleton was basically a throw in for the Jennings/Knight trade. My position is a difficult one in that I'm saying 'they're out there' without any knowledge of who it will be, because if I could identify NBA talent I'd be a scout, but I am fairly sure that in a couple years there will be a guy doing a good job for a playoff team in a 3&D role who is sitting in the D League or abroad right now. Patrick Beverley is another example, albeit at the point guard position.

Even if Anderson could, since Parker and Ginobili (if he returns) aren't nearly as good as they were in '12, that's no longer good enough. This team needs 100% of what Green provides.

The answer is easy: Re-signing Green, along with signing Aldridge, would give them a chance at remaining a contender in the near future. He'll also have strong resale value.

Carroll couldn't shoot threes two years ago (neither could Beverley, until the Rockets brought him in) and though Middleton was thought to be someone who could grow into a 3 and D role, he wasn't thought of as being great at either. The role also wasn't as valued two years ago.

Brooks is a terrible defender and a sub par three-point shooter.

[Mnky]

TD21. Da hell you talking bout? The smiley face argument is hard to counter.
I said they both fit great, but somehow that means I graded them in a small sample size and determined them worthless.

Oye. Reading comprehension is a vital skill To accompany reading.
I have credit to the front office for developing a couple of nobodies. If you want to say that the front office didn't develop them, that's about your only counter argument. Have fun with that.

[Richie]

Even if Anderson could, since Parker and Ginobili (if he returns) aren't nearly as good as they were in '12, that's no longer good enough. This team needs 100% of what Green provides.

The answer is easy: Re-signing Green, along with signing Aldridge, would give them a chance at remaining a contender in the near future. He'll also have strong resale value.

Carroll couldn't shoot threes two years ago (neither could Beverley, until the Rockets brought him in) and though Middleton was thought to be someone who could grow into a 3 and D role, he wasn't thought of as being great at either. The role also wasn't as valued two years ago.

Brooks is a terrible defender and a sub par three-point shooter.

I think this is where we fundamentally disagree on Green. The reason I would consider letting Green go is because he doesn't do anything to make up for the decline in production from Manu and Parker, he is just a better, more experienced version of the same player from 2012. As Manu retires and Parker ages, we need more and Green won't be able to give us that. Who he is right now is who he will always be, and that's not a bad player by any stretch, but is it enough over the next 4 years? If we're going to have Aldridge/Kawhi/Parker over the next 4-5 years, we can't just be thinking about what's best for us next season, we need a more long term plan.

Again I agree about Carroll, Beverley etc... that's why we need to identify those players who have the ability but haven't showcased it yet for whatever reason. Clearly it's easier said than done otherwise everyone would be doing it, but the Front Office have a great track record in this regard. Someone like Jamaal Franklin or Adonis Thomas could be that guy, honestly I have no idea, but I'm certain there's one out there.

[Chinook]

Good arguments, but it's Not what I was saying again. I believe if we had a healthy team we walk to the finals again. I agree there. Tiago is great at what he's asked to do, so is green. I agree there too. Neither one was before the spurs.

That's exactly what you're saying. Those two are arguably the best players in the league in their roles. That's not "replaceable" at all. Let's not even talk contracts right now. Who could the Spurs bring in to be Splitter or Green?

And no, the Spurs didn't make either one good players. Splitter was considered the best big in Europe before joining the Spurs. He was 2007's Mirotic or Saric. Don't confuse the Spurs benching him for his first year with them making him into an NBA-caliber player. Green played the same role he plays now when he was in college. That Mike Brown and Byron Scott didn't know how to use him in Cleveland isn't really a scathing criticism. He's become a more refined player, especially mentally, and Pop and the Big Three definitely deserve credit for that. But he's pretty much the same player he was in 2012 skill-wise. If anything, he hasn't lived up to the potential he showed that season. Dude played PG for the team a couple games that year for goodness' sake.

Are Danny and Tiago better players than they were when they arrived in SA? Yes. But that's true for all of the Spurs' roster, including the Big Three and Kawhi. That a player has developed doesn't make them replaceable, and saying that implies that there's nothing special about them that led to their development. The Spurs had too many busts at the wing and center spots for me to believe they'll instantly find someone who can play those roles again.

[TD 21]

I think this is where we fundamentally disagree on Green. The reason I would consider letting Green go is because he doesn't do anything to make up for the decline in production from Manu and Parker, he is just a better, more experienced version of the same player from 2012. As Manu retires and Parker ages, we need more and Green won't be able to give us that. Who he is right now is who he will always be, and that's not a bad player by any stretch, but is it enough over the next 4 years? If we're going to have Aldridge/Kawhi/Parker over the next 4-5 years, we can't just be thinking about what's best for us next season, we need a more long term plan.

Again I agree about Carroll, Beverley etc... that's why we need to identify those players who have the ability but haven't showcased it yet for whatever reason. Clearly it's easier said than done otherwise everyone would be doing it, but the Front Office have a great track record in this regard. Someone like Jamaal Franklin or Adonis Thomas could be that guy, honestly I have no idea, but I'm certain there's one out there.

No matter his decline, Parker is going to remain and provide at least some play making, Leonard is going to continue to take on more of a featured role and obviously Aldridge immediately would, if he's signed. Clearly, they'll need to replace Ginobili's role. It could be a combination of Anderson/Joseph, it could be them taking a flier on Shved, or in a year circling back to Turner (they could probably only afford him if Aldridge doesn't sign). Also keep in mind, they won't need as much play making as Ginobili has provided in recent years with more legitimate featured scorers.

Green is valuable irrespective of their declines. In fact, he just had his best season in spite of it.

It's much more difficult to find than you realize. Only in the past few months has Carroll went from a guy who could make threes to a legitimate three point shooter. Even now, he's not the feared shooter Green is. Franklin can't shoot threes. It's possible he could be the SG version of Carroll in two years, but this is a team trying to remain contenders in the interim; they can't be taking massive risks like that.

[Chinook]

I think this is where we fundamentally disagree on Green. The reason I would consider letting Green go is because he doesn't do anything to make up for the decline in production from Manu and Parker, he is just a better, more experienced version of the same player from 2012. As Manu retires and Parker ages, we need more and Green won't be able to give us that. Who he is right now is who he will always be, and that's not a bad player by any stretch, but is it enough over the next 4 years? If we're going to have Aldridge/Kawhi/Parker over the next 4-5 years, we can't just be thinking about what's best for us next season, we need a more long term plan.

Again I agree about Carroll, Beverley etc... that's why we need to identify those players who have the ability but haven't showcased it yet for whatever reason. Clearly it's easier said than done otherwise everyone would be doing it, but the Front Office have a great track record in this regard. Someone like Jamaal Franklin or Adonis Thomas could be that guy, honestly I have no idea, but I'm certain there's one out there.

If the Spurs were confident that they had the next Green, that would be one thing. It would be an easy decision to let him go. But Danny has been a solid player for four years, and there hasn't been another Green in the league in that whole time. The closest thing has been Carrol, who is older than Danny and just as expensive. Anderson and RHJ might be able to do that, but they could also join the list of forgettable wings that people thought were sure-fire three-and-D players. I agree with TD21 completely that the league's perception of those players has shifted over the last few years. The goal used to be to find guys you could park in the corner who weren't liabilities. But perhaps because of Green's 2013 Finals, people realized that three-and-D guys can become a real weapon for a team.

Can Danny do more to make up for the decline of the other guards while not playing outside of himself? Yes. The Spurs can run an offense that generators looks for him off screens. Korver is a more dynamic off-ball player than Danny, but not by so much that Green can't run some of those plays. Also, as Parker becomes less of a playmaker, Kawhi will become more of one. There's still more room for Green to grow as a compliment to Leonard's post game. And none of what you say about Green's relative value plays into the Spurs' plan to build their roster. If they let go of Green for Aldridge, they are left with no defender and shooter at the two. It wouldn't make Parker able to be a facilitator again. It wouldn't make Ginobili young again. It would just leave a hole on the team that took the Spurs years to fill last time.

[apalisoc_9]

3 and D players really are the blood modern NBA teams.

Danny Green is one of the best in the league if not the best.

Simple logix says it would be stupid to let go of him unless you're getting a superstar in return.

If I had to choose between Aldridge and Green..I'd take Green and wait for another year If I must IMO.

[Richie]

Parker is going to remain, Leonard is going to continue to take on more of a featured role and obviously Aldridge immediately would, if he's signed. Clearly, they'll need to replace Ginobili's role. It could be a combination of Anderson/Joseph, it could be them taking a flier on Shved, or in a year circling back to Turner (not a fan, but they were rumored interested at the '14 trade deadline and they could only afford him if they don't sign Aldridge), etc. Also keep in mind, they won't need as much play making as Ginobili has provided in recent years with more legitimate featured scorers.

Green is valuable irrespective of their declines. In fact, he just had his best season in spite of it.

It's much more difficult to find than you realize. Only in the past few months has Carroll went from a guy who could make threes to a legitimate three point shooter. Even now, he's not the feared shooter Green is. Franklin can't shoot threes. It's possible he could be the SG version of Carroll in two years, but this is a team trying to remain contenders in the interim; they can't be taking massive risks like that.

You're right, it's a risk. I'm not saying we should keep Diaw and Splitter over Green, I'm just saying it's something to think about. If I'm honest I'd probably rather keep Green and dump one of the other two as we know what we're getting with Green and with Diaws mentality and Splitters health there are question marks over the others. I actually though Diaw regressed a lot this year and if he doesn't regain his shooting he will be a liability, although he'd likely cost a 1st rounder to get rid of.

[Mugen]

If you let Danny go, then you basically are saying the Spurs aren't winning a title for the next 2-3 years. Without Danny, you no longer have the perimeter D to hang with OKC, Golden State or even the Clippers.

With Parker, you already have one of the worst defensive players in the league and is only going to get worse. You need as many two way players as possible to make up for his shortcomings. Letting Danny go is an admission by the FO that they no longer want to pay for a contending team, plain n simple.

[james evans]

If you let Danny go, then you basically are saying the Spurs aren't winning a title for the next 2-3 years. Without Danny, you no longer have the perimeter D to hang with OKC, Golden State or even the Clippers.

With Parker, you already have one of the worst defensive players in the league and is only going to get worse. You need as many two way players as possible to make up for his shortcomings. Letting Danny go is an admission by the FO that they no longer want to pay for a contending team, plain n simple.
parker's not one of the worst defensive players in teh league, he IS the worst.

[DPG21920]

Soooooooo, remember when many of us were pretty upset at Manu's last contract? I wonder how upset people are going to be if he decides to come back, takes some money and that makes the difference in landing Aldridge or landing Aldridge and letting go of Danny Green....

[Richie]

I wonder if the Hawks would accept Tiago + #26 for #15? They need more size and he's already shown to be a great fit in the Hawks/Spurs system. They could absorb him in to their cap space and still bring back everybody. With Antic/Millsap/Horford all able to hit 3's he'd be able to play with any of them. Would then give us room to sign a max guy and bring back Green.

[hooperflash]

https://scontent-dfw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/t31.0-8/r270/11357318_1063069313707968_8630439406800248763_o.jp g?efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9

[Mnky]

Once more. Never implied there's nothing special about them that led to their development. That's you trying to create an argument because you simply "disagree" with my premise that they're replaceable. To point out your lack of argument, I'll refer to your first sentence of the second paragraph, " no the spurs didn't make them good players ". (Even though green couldn't stay in the league) and then refer you to "that a player has developed." This implies they got better, and you said they're arguably the best at what they do in the league today which they obviously weren't when they came to the Spurs.

"To believe they"'ll instantly find someone who can play those roles again."

Development, which is what I've referenced as your rebuttal shows, is not instant and to further reference, green took a long journey to where he is now. So did splitter. If the spurs can take those guys with average to good ability and make them the "best in the league" at what they do, I'm confident in the front offices ability to do it again. Seems logical.

Guess I'm just not into the cliffdiving this forums known for.

Chinook

[tholdren]

If you let Danny go, then you basically are saying the Spurs aren't winning a title for the next 2-3 years. Without Danny, you no longer have the perimeter D to hang with OKC, Golden State or even the Clippers.

With Parker, you already have one of the worst defensive players in the league and is only going to get worse. You need as many two way players as possible to make up for his shortcomings. Letting Danny go is an admission by the FO that they no longer want to pay for a contending team, plain n simple.

what the hell are you talking about? Danny played like shit all but 1.4 games of the series, and his defense, was less than desirable until the final game. He sulked, pouted and acted like a bitch. More importantly his defense wasnt even good enough to "hang" with LA, this year, so why would he get better, or grow a bigger pair next year? He wont. This is why you sign him and trade him at max value like SA should have done with Splitter, and possibly parker.

[Chinook]

Once more. Never implied there's nothing special about them that led to their development. That's you trying to create an argument because you simply "disagree" with my premise that they're replaceable. To point out your lack of argument, I'll refer to your first sentence of the second paragraph, " no the spurs didn't make them good players ". (Even though green couldn't stay in the league) and then refer you to "that a player has developed." This implies they got better, and you said they're arguably the best at what they do in the league today which they obviously weren't when they came to the Spurs.

Your point isn't being misunderstood, bro. You're saying that the Spurs made Green and Splitter into the players they are today, and that they can do it again with other players. But the argument is flawed in two ways. One, the fact that Green and Splitter are better players now than they were four years ago doesn't mean the Spurs "made them." Splitter for sure was a star-level player in Europe prior to coming over. Green shot 42 percent from three his senior year in college, and when he played in the d-league, he averaged 20/7/3 as Jeremy Lin's running mate for RGV. His big jump into relevance came after the lockout (when he clearly wasn't being developed by the Spurs), when he had a really good training camp and shined in mop-up duty. As I said before, if anything, Danny flashed a lot more than the Spurs eventually got from him, as he seemed much more capable of handling the ball and was better at finishing above the rim.

Both were good players before becoming Spurs. They got better, but so has every other member of the team. Leonard's probably grown the most, but it would be absurd to assert that he is replaceable because of that. You may say, "Of course not, but Leonard is a star while Green and Splitter are role-players." And that's where the idea that Green and Splitter are among the best in the league at what they do comes in. It simply isn't a good bet to think that the team will find someone else who can even eventually do what Danny and Tiago do. The Spurs tried for years to find players to fill those roles. Danny wasn't the first d-leaguer the team tried to "develop". There's a list of unimpressive names that have come through the roster as 10-days or min guys. The Spurs spent million of dollars and multiple first-rounders to try to find a big to put next to Tim before Tiago came over.

Splitter and Green are not replaceable because they are elite performers in roles that are hard to fill. That's really the alpha and omega of the topic. It's foolish for the Spurs to plan on replacing them for cheap, even if they are willing to wait a few years for the new guys to "develop". There's too much evidence to suggest that that Spurs are simply not particularly adept at finding talent at those positions to suggest that that's a plausible direction for them to go. For every Green and Splitter there's a dozen or more Jefferses, Temples, Gees and Mahinmi's.

[Malik Hairston]

I wonder if the Hawks would accept Tiago + #26 for #15? They need more size and he's already shown to be a great fit in the Hawks/Spurs system. They could absorb him in to their cap space and still bring back everybody. With Antic/Millsap/Horford all able to hit 3's he'd be able to play with any of them. Would then give us room to sign a max guy and bring back Green.

I actually thought about this during the Spurs-Hawks game where the Spurs blew them out in February or March IIRC..the Hawks feed(Wilkins and the other guy) was actually discussing having a player like Splitter and how his size would benefit the Hawks, during that game..obviously it doesn't mean anything that their announcers discussed it, but there's the Hawks-Spurs connection, of course..

Splitter is underappreciated by most Spurs fans, his value is evident, but I'd probably do, but only if it guarantees Aldridge..

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Spurstalk have always been very wary of letting players go in order to replace them with someone else. Endless examples of arguing over how irreplaceable guys like Roger Mason and others were.

If the Spurs could facilitate getting an all star level player in Aldridge, they'd happily get rid of any role player, no matter how highly qualified they are and think about fits and needs later. They went all-in for Gasol last summer when it was clear he was a poor fit, but they won't turn down the chance to increase the talent. It's just difficult to pull off.

[Richie]

I actually thought about this during the Spurs-Hawks game where the Spurs blew them out in February or March IIRC..the Hawks feed(Wilkins and the other guy) was actually discussing having a player like Splitter and how his size would benefit the Hawks, during that game..obviously it doesn't mean anything that their announcers discussed it, but there's the Hawks-Spurs connection, of course..

Splitter is underappreciated by most Spurs fans, his value is evident, but I'd probably do, but only if it guarantees Aldridge..

Having watched them struggle against Mozgov and Thompson, I think he's exactly what they need. Move Horford back to his natural position at the 4 and bring Millsap off the bench, a Horford/Splitter duo would turn them in to a much, much better rebounding team.

It's obviously a risk but if we can get up to #15, I think it's one worth taking, I love Bobby Portis at that spot. Even if we strike out on Aldridge or Gasol it's worth it so we can keep the rest of the team in tact IMO.

[Sean Cagney]

Having watched them struggle against Mozgov and Thompson, I think he's exactly what they need. Move Horford back to his natural position at the 4 and bring Millsap off the bench, a Horford/Splitter duo would turn them in to a much, much better rebounding team.

It's obviously a risk but if we can get up to #15, I think it's one worth taking, I love Bobby Portis at that spot. Even if we strike out on Aldridge or Gasol it's worth it so we can keep the rest of the team in tact IMO.Look I agree with you but this is not even a proposed trade of reality at this point so its pointless lol... I would do it though hypothetically. I wish every
good trade we dreamed of or thought of was legit.

[TD 21]

You're right, it's a risk. I'm not saying we should keep Diaw and Splitter over Green, I'm just saying it's something to think about. If I'm honest I'd probably rather keep Green and dump one of the other two as we know what we're getting with Green and with Diaws mentality and Splitters health there are question marks over the others. I actually though Diaw regressed a lot this year and if he doesn't regain his shooting he will be a liability, although he'd likely cost a 1st rounder to get rid of.

There's nothing to think about. You don't prioritize fourth big over second wing.

Diaw wouldn't cost a 1st to get rid of. They could easily move him, though it is tough to nail down what his value would be. For all the obvious reasons, they wouldn't get the return for him that they would for Splitter, but I'm confident they could get something decent.

[Mnky]

Chinook

Good stuff :toast