Historical Performances of #1 Picks

[ambchang]

Since so many are not convinced of the suckage of #2 picks, let's look at #1 picks:

2014 Andrew Wiggins - Jury still out, ball hog inefficient chucker type, but can be a monster on defense and seem willing to learn. Likely a solid starter borderline all star type player.
2013 Anthony Bennett - Still early, but bust it is.
2012 Anthony Davis - Franchise type player, one of the best players in the league already
2011 Kyrie Irving - Ball hog, but no question an all-star type player who can lead bad teams to nowhere. Proving to be a capable 2nd banana on a contender
2010 John Wall - Great defensive player, borderline franchise player talent. Learning to use his athletic gifts and is starting to lead mediocre teams to decent finishes
2009 Blake Griffin - Fantastic player, still not fully developed and can really work on his defense (still). But definitely a player you can build around.
2008 Derrick Rose - Youngest MVP ever, but injuries likely finished his career. He is, at least, a multiple all-star though.
2007 Greg Oden - Have the talent, but really, a bust.
2006 Andrea Bargnani - The reason Toronto really sucked. The draft was weak, but Bargnani? They could have picked Aldridge, Roy, even Gay.
2005 Andrew Bogut - Injuries hurt his cause, but this guy is a defensive anchor and a solid starter on a contending team. In the mold of a Noah or Chandler, but without the stats.
2004 Dwight Howard - Franchise type talent with a 4-year old brain. Perfect as a defensive anchor and 2nd banana to a contender.
2003 LeBron James - Once in a generation talent. One of the best of all time.
2002 Yao Ming - Franchise type talent, but injuries really did him in. Really sad story.
2001 Kwame Brown - Definition of bust. Just a horrible player with no talent or drive.
2000 Kenyon Martin - Arguably the best player in one of the weakest drafts in the history of the league. So weak that a 2nd rounder (Redd) is in the conversation as the best player in the draft.
1999 Elton Brand - Solid 20/10 player until injuries set in.
1998 Michael Olowokandi - If someone is more of a bust than Kwame, here's the guy. The draft was actually decent that year, but they went with the Kandiman.
1997 Tim Duncan - Another once in a generation player. Best of all time level player.
1996 Allen Iverson - Franchise type player. Defined everything wrong with scoring point guards, but the best player under 6 feet in league history.
1995 Joe Smith - His career and talent is like his name, pretty bland, doesn't stand out, but does his work. Is definitely not worth losing 4 draft picks though.
1994 Glenn Robinson - Scorer extraordinaire. I am expecting Jabari Parker to have a career similar to Robinson.
1993 Chris Webber - Borderline franchise type talent. Prone to mental mistakes but led his team to a title.
1992 Shaquille O'Neal - Another once in a generation player, best of all time level player.
1991 Larry Johnson - Solid 20/10 guy until injuries took away his athleticism. Changed his game and became a solid contributor.
1990 Derrick Coleman - Great court vision for a PF, has all the tools except the attitude. All star type talent
1989 Pervis Ellison - People call him a bust, but he was actually pretty decent in Washington until injuries set in. He was a decent starter
1988 Danny Manning - Again with the injuries. A PG in a PF/SF's body. He would be perfect for today's game
1987 David Robinson - Franchise player, one of the best centers to ever play the game.
1986 Brad Daugherty - Multiple all-star selection in the most center heavy era of the league. Nice low post moves, great passer, a little soft, and would have been perfect for today's league though.
1985 Patrick Ewing - Franchise player. Expectations of him were unreasonable in NY, but he eventually lived up to it.
1984 Hakeem Olajuwon - Franchise player, one of the best of all time.
1983 Ralph Sampson - Great talent, and would have been great in today's game. Too bad injuries set in and claimed his legs.
1982 James Worthy - One of the best 3rd banana of all time.
1981 Mark Aguirre - Solid low post and mid range scorer. Very physical. A few all-star game selections.
1980 Joe Barry Carroll - The original bust. Just a horrible attitude.
1979 Magic Johnson - One of the best of all time.
1978 Mychal Thompson - Decent player, solid starter for sure.
1977 Kent Benson - Major disappointment. The draft wasn't that great, and he was a main reason for it.
1976 John Lucas - Drugs finished his career. Great talent.
1975 David Thompson - One of the great scorers of the league. Can't build around him though.
1974 Bill Walton - Once in a generation talent, but injuries really finished his career until Bird arrived.


In summary, we are looking at 12 franchise type players, including 4 who were top 10 all time (Magic, Shaq, Duncan and Lebron), 13 all-star types, 7 solid starters, 2 disappointments, and 7 busts.

Does so much better than #2 picks, where none of the players were top 10 of all time, and had only 2 franchise type player (Durant and Thomas).

[TDMVPDPOY]

it also depends on the team they get drafted on

do they have a first option? if no, do they have a defensive anchor? if no...

then the no.1 pick on a 1 man team = increase pad stats

[TDMVPDPOY]

it also depends on the team they get drafted on

do they have a first option? if no, do they have a defensive anchor? if no...

then the no.1 pick on a 1 man team = increase pad stats

[ambchang]

It is viewed in the context of comparing to a #2 pick. Given that the #2 pick has the same variables, the two should be considered comparable.

[Kool Bob Love]

Picking 7th isn't great either.

[Killakobe81]

Since so many are not convinced of the suckage of #2 picks, let's look at #1 picks:

2014 Andrew Wiggins - Jury still out, ball hog inefficient chucker type, but can be a monster on defense and seem willing to learn. Likely a solid starter borderline all star type player.
2013 Anthony Bennett - Still early, but bust it is.
2012 Anthony Davis - Franchise type player, one of the best players in the league already
2011 Kyrie Irving - Ball hog, but no question an all-star type player who can lead bad teams to nowhere. Proving to be a capable 2nd banana on a contender
2010 John Wall - Great defensive player, borderline franchise player talent. Learning to use his athletic gifts and is starting to lead mediocre teams to decent finishes
2009 Blake Griffin - Fantastic player, still not fully developed and can really work on his defense (still). But definitely a player you can build around.
2008 Derrick Rose - Youngest MVP ever, but injuries likely finished his career. He is, at least, a multiple all-star though.
2007 Greg Oden - Have the talent, but really, a bust.
2006 Andrea Bargnani - The reason Toronto really sucked. The draft was weak, but Bargnani? They could have picked Aldridge, Roy, even Gay.
2005 Andrew Bogut - Injuries hurt his cause, but this guy is a defensive anchor and a solid starter on a contending team. In the mold of a Noah or Chandler, but without the stats.
2004 Dwight Howard - Franchise type talent with a 4-year old brain. Perfect as a defensive anchor and 2nd banana to a contender.
2003 LeBron James - Once in a generation talent. One of the best of all time.
2002 Yao Ming - Franchise type talent, but injuries really did him in. Really sad story.
2001 Kwame Brown - Definition of bust. Just a horrible player with no talent or drive.
2000 Kenyon Martin - Arguably the best player in one of the weakest drafts in the history of the league. So weak that a 2nd rounder (Redd) is in the conversation as the best player in the draft.
1999 Elton Brand - Solid 20/10 player until injuries set in.
1998 Michael Olowokandi - If someone is more of a bust than Kwame, here's the guy. The draft was actually decent that year, but they went with the Kandiman.
1997 Tim Duncan - Another once in a generation player. Best of all time level player.
1996 Allen Iverson - Franchise type player. Defined everything wrong with scoring point guards, but the best player under 6 feet in league history.
1995 Joe Smith - His career and talent is like his name, pretty bland, doesn't stand out, but does his work. Is definitely not worth losing 4 draft picks though.
1994 Glenn Robinson - Scorer extraordinaire. I am expecting Jabari Parker to have a career similar to Robinson.
1993 Chris Webber - Borderline franchise type talent. Prone to mental mistakes but led his team to a title.
1992 Shaquille O'Neal - Another once in a generation player, best of all time level player.
1991 Larry Johnson - Solid 20/10 guy until injuries took away his athleticism. Changed his game and became a solid contributor.
1990 Derrick Coleman - Great court vision for a PF, has all the tools except the attitude. All star type talent
1989 Pervis Ellison - People call him a bust, but he was actually pretty decent in Washington until injuries set in. He was a decent starter
1988 Danny Manning - Again with the injuries. A PG in a PF/SF's body. He would be perfect for today's game
1987 David Robinson - Franchise player, one of the best centers to ever play the game.
1986 Brad Daugherty - Multiple all-star selection in the most center heavy era of the league. Nice low post moves, great passer, a little soft, and would have been perfect for today's league though.
1985 Patrick Ewing - Franchise player. Expectations of him were unreasonable in NY, but he eventually lived up to it.
1984 Hakeem Olajuwon - Franchise player, one of the best of all time.
1983 Ralph Sampson - Great talent, and would have been great in today's game. Too bad injuries set in and claimed his legs.
1982 James Worthy - One of the best 3rd banana of all time.
1981 Mark Aguirre - Solid low post and mid range scorer. Very physical. A few all-star game selections.
1980 Joe Barry Carroll - The original bust. Just a horrible attitude.
1979 Magic Johnson - One of the best of all time.
1978 Mychal Thompson - Decent player, solid starter for sure.
1977 Kent Benson - Major disappointment. The draft wasn't that great, and he was a main reason for it.
1976 John Lucas - Drugs finished his career. Great talent.
1975 David Thompson - One of the great scorers of the league. Can't build around him though.
1974 Bill Walton - Once in a generation talent, but injuries really finished his career until Bird arrived.


In summary, we are looking at 12 franchise type players, including 4 who were top 10 all time (Magic, Shaq, Duncan and Lebron), 13 all-star types, 7 solid starters, 2 disappointments, and 7 busts.

Does so much better than #2 picks, where none of the players were top 10 of all time, and had only 2 franchise type player (Durant and Thomas).

No one disagrees with you on your premise ... we just question your motives and timing which are obvious. Reality is the draft isnt about the order but taking the best BPA when you do not ...Durant and Thomas happen. and CP3, Kiwi Leonard and on and on. Plenty of players not taken #1 have outperformed the #1's ahead of them. Some of the#1's you have touted above despite being good to great players have been outperformed by guys drafted 10 plus slots behind them.

We get it. #1 is a better spot than #2 ... no shit, sherlock.

[Thread]

No one disagrees with you on your premise ... we just question your motives and timing which are obvious. Reality is the draft isnt about the order but taking the best BPA when you do not ...Durant and Thomas happen. and CP3, Kiwi Leonard and on and on. Plenty of players not taken #1 have outperformed the #1's ahead of them. Some of the#1's you have touted above despite being good to great players have been outperformed by guys drafted 10 plus slots behind them.

We get it. #1 is a better spot than #2 ... no shit, sherlock.

He got poleaxed. He never thought the Clippers would rise up on his watch. He never thought we'd climb to 2. After that? He was compelled.

[Killakobe81]

He got poleaxed. He never thought the Clippers would rise up on his watch. He never thought we'd climb to 2. After that? He was compelled.

LOL. The one thing I will give Amb, Laker fans need to relax. One sent me a text today with crazy dreams of trading down and getting Russell and Kaminsky. There is no immediate salvation in the draft. Only reason that happened for the spurs is because of the DRobinson injury and subsequent tank. It didnt work for Cleveland, chicago, Clippers and they got the top pick and those picks performed well.

Rome and title teams are not built in a day ...

I just want improvement and talent acquisition ...

[Thread]

LOL. The one thing I will give Amb, Laker fans need to relax.

Amb could use some down time as well. & I don't see Kobe dieing in the next 10 minutes.

[DMC]

He got poleaxed. He never thought the Clippers would rise up on his watch. He never thought we'd climb to 2. After that? He was compelled.

"Climb to 2"

Here you are, slumming with the pussies and assholes who yelled "tank tank tank" all season.

You spent all year not thinking the Clippers would rise above the Spurs. You've no room.

[Thread]

"Climb to 2"

Here you are, slumming with the pussies and assholes who yelled "tank tank tank" all season.

You spent all year not thinking the Clippers would rise above the Spurs. You've no room.

No. I handed up an indictment on amb. Nothing more.

[ambchang]

No one disagrees with you on your premise ... we just question your motives and timing which are obvious. Reality is the draft isnt about the order but taking the best BPA when you do not ...Durant and Thomas happen. and CP3, Kiwi Leonard and on and on. Plenty of players not taken #1 have outperformed the #1's ahead of them. Some of the#1's you have touted above despite being good to great players have been outperformed by guys drafted 10 plus slots behind them.

We get it. #1 is a better spot than #2 ... no shit, sherlock.

With all the celebrating about "winning" the 2nd pick in the draft, I thought for a second that Laker fans thought #2 > #1.

We can do #3 and #4 picks, and I can bet that the drop off from #1 to #2 is much greater than from #2 to #3, or even #2 to #4.

Finally, there is no questioning my motives or timing, it IS to rain on the Lakers party. #2 is rarely really that great. Not even close to as good as Laker fans believe it to be.


He got poleaxed. He never thought the Clippers would rise up on his watch. He never thought we'd climb to 2. After that? He was compelled.

TO be honest, I was surprised the Spurs couldn't go past the Clippers, I thought the Spurs would win in 5, 6 max. They then proceed to choke and let Barnes murder them.

As for the #2 pick? I don't really care one way or another. With the mess the Lakers are in right now, I don't see them getting anywhere even with consecutive #1 picks.


LOL. The one thing I will give Amb, Laker fans need to relax. One sent me a text today with crazy dreams of trading down and getting Russell and Kaminsky. There is no immediate salvation in the draft. Only reason that happened for the spurs is because of the DRobinson injury and subsequent tank. It didnt work for Cleveland, chicago, Clippers and they got the top pick and those picks performed well.

Rome and title teams are not built in a day ...

I just want improvement and talent acquisition ...

Precisely my point. Except the Spurs didn't tank, because they are not so stupid that they thought they could win championships with just one draft pick in a team sport. They tried that with Robinson and failed.


Amb could use some down time as well. & I don't see Kobe dieing in the next 10 minutes.

Kobe dying would enhance his legacy, I would have to fight that much harder to show his actual real worth in basketball terms.

[Thread]

As for the #2 pick? I don't really care one way or another.

I'll just bet you don't.

[Killakobe81]

With all the celebrating about "winning" the 2nd pick in the draft, I thought for a second that Laker fans thought #2 > #1.

We can do #3 and #4 picks, and I can bet that the drop off from #1 to #2 is much greater than from #2 to #3, or even #2 to #4.

Finally, there is no questioning my motives or timing, it IS to rain on the Lakers party. #2 is rarely really that great. Not even close to as good as Laker fans believe it to be.



TO be honest, I was surprised the Spurs couldn't go past the Clippers, I thought the Spurs would win in 5, 6 max. They then proceed to choke and let Barnes murder them.

As for the #2 pick? I don't really care one way or another. With the mess the Lakers are in right now, I don't see them getting anywhere even with consecutive #1 picks.



Precisely my point. Except the Spurs didn't tank, because they are not so stupid that they thought they could win championships with just one draft pick in a team sport. They tried that with Robinson and failed.



Kobe dying would enhance his legacy, I would have to fight that much harder to show his actual real worth in basketball terms.

Some truths in there buried amongst the muck and the bull-shit. You alright with me at times, Amb ... at times.

[Brazil]

:lol all of that to conclude having #1 is better than #2... really ? damn... who knew

[Mitch]

Webber didn't win a title, Chang. You still try to piss in my cereal?

[Thread]

Webber didn't win a title, Chang.

True, but, he sure as Hell made it possible for us to drive a triple deep into the night sky.

[ambchang]

Webber didn't win a title, Chang. You still try to piss in my cereal?

He did, just like Dirk has two rings.

[ambchang]

:lol all of that to conclude having #1 is better than #2... really ? damn... who knew

Judging by the posts around here the last few days, not a lot knew.

[Killakobe81]

:lol all of that to conclude having #1 is better than #2... really ? damn... who knew

Lol

[Killakobe81]

Judging by the posts around here the last few days, not a lot knew.

No that was just you running with shit per usual ...Lakers fans were overly giddy no one said #2 was better than 1 that I saw..

[Mitch]

He did, just like Dirk has two rings.

So wedding rings count as championships now?

[ambchang]

No that was just you running with shit per usual ...Lakers fans were overly giddy no one said #2 was better than 1 that I saw..

Laker fans were running around like the #2 pick will turn their franchise around. No it won't.

Even by drafting a guy like Durant, who was all world MVP talent, the Sonics didn't amount to much until Westbrook and Harden round into shape, and then they pissed it all away with a number of poor decisions.

Same with Thomas, they weren't good for a few years, until they started to really assembly talent with Dumars, Laimbeer, Salley, Rodman, Microwave, and got Daly to really lead the team.

Laker fans thinking they are back because of the #2 pick is fooling themselves.

There are no Duncans, Lebrons or Shaqs in this draft, and even with those players, their teams couldn't win anything at all (Cavs the first time around, Magic never did) or until they got some real help.

Which brings us to my point all along, this is a team sport. You get a once in a generation player, you can either harness that talent and build around him (Duncan, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Walton, Russell), piss it away by making horrible decision after horrible decision (Robinson, Barkley, Lebron in the first stint with Cleveland) or waste a few of the players years poking around for the right combination (Hakeem, Jordan's first few years, Antonio Davis so far, Wilt).

[ambchang]

So wedding rings count as championships now?

06 and 11

[Mitch]

06 and 11

I believe Dwayne Wade won in 06, Chang.

[ambchang]

I believe Dwayne Wade won in 06, Chang.

In a Parallel universe in which the league is crooked. But we live in reality where the league is fair and just.

[Mitch]

In a Parallel universe in which the league is crooked. But we live in reality where the league is fair and just.

Do the Spurs repeat in in 2005 after winning 2004 within your fantasy land, Chang?

[Brazil]

Judging by the posts around here the last few days, not a lot knew.

Lakers fans were close at one point to lose their pick to the sixers and finally climbed up to second pick with low probability... I'd be thrilled too in their shoes... #2 is obviously < than #1 but much better than second round pick.

Then I don't see where some historical trends have any indication to guess if the player they will pick at #2 will be a bust or not.

not your best trolling job tbh...

[ambchang]

Do the Spurs repeat in in 2005 after winning 2004 within your fantasy land, Chang?

Spurs have 5 titles. Lakers have 13.

[ambchang]

Lakers fans were close at one point to lose their pick to the sixers and finally climbed up to second pick with low probability... I'd be thrilled too in their shoes... #2 is obviously < than #1 but much better than second round pick.

Then I don't see where some historical trends have any indication to guess if the player they will pick at #2 will be a bust or not.

not your best trolling job tbh...

History says that there are rarely two franchise players in a draft and even if there were, the other usually doesn't get drafted second.

[Silver&Black]

You sure do have a lot of "once in a generation" type players....

[Killakobe81]

Spurs have 5 titles. Lakers have 13.

16,son ...

[ambchang]

You sure do have a lot of "once in a generation" type players....

Lebron, Duncan, shaq, Hakeem, magic. Tough not to call any of them once in a generation.

[ambchang]

16,son ...

Only in a crooked league.

[Thread]

Only in a crooked league.


Only pussies & assholes lodge the crooked card.

[Thread]

Lebron, Duncan, shaq, Hakeem, magic. Tough not to call any of them once in a generation.

Little Van Gundy hands up an indict:::

J3NvhxKicJY

[ambchang]

Little Van Gundy hands up an indict:::

J3NvhxKicJY

Duncan missed a shot? Really? I thought once in a generation players make 100% of their shots.

[Thread]

Duncan missed a shot? Really? I thought once in a generation players make 100% of their shots.

Crawl, motherfucker, crawl!!!!!!

[ambchang]

Crawl, motherfucker, crawl!!!!!!

So you are waving the white flag ....