LeBron will at least tie Duncan in all-time ranking if he rings this year

[hitmantb]

Any all time great player must have MVP + FMVP, anyone without both can not make top 10 all-time list and won't take long for them to be excluded from top 20 all-time list.

People will not remember what actually happened, they will just count the hardware. They will look at Duncan's last two rings and say he wasn't the first option on these teams.

You look up a player's wiki page, first three categories are rings, finals MVP and MVP.

Timmy has 2 MVP, 3 FMVP, and 5 rings, or 10 points total.

LeBron will have 4 MVP, 3 FMVP and 3 rings, also 10 points. Most consider MVP to say more about an all-time great player as an individual than a ring without FMVP attached. Tie breaker will likely go to LeBron as 4 MVP in 5 years just says a lot about a player's sheer dominance. Heat went from three straight NBA finals to missing playoffs without him. Cavs went from three #1 lottery picks to NBA finals with him despite injuries to two of the big three! All in a single season!

I consider 2003 Duncan's supporting cast to be the weakest championship team ever, 2003 post season win share was the highest ever:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/ws_season_p.html

But LeBron without Love/Irving making NBA finals and winning it against a 67-win team would be a comparable feat. Heck I think 15 Cavs without LeBron, Love, just a hobbled Irving is weaker than 03 Spurs without Duncan. Heck if he can take this team to the NBA finals, I doubt Cavs roster can get any worse than this, I see LeBron, if healthy making the NBA finals 8 years in a row. He needs 1 ring + 1 FMVP to tie/exceed Duncan. He needs 2 rings + 2 FMVP to tie/exceed Kareem/Magic. If he allows assistant coach David Blatt (a great, great coach getting a lot of value of of the current Cavs roster) to take over, he has a 10% chance of beating Jordan.

Let's face it that Shaq/Kobe team only won 50 games. We saw what happened to the Spurs this season after one WCF and two NBA finals. That 03 Lakers team was just too tired to compete outside of Shaq/Kobe.

So please Warriors, I am counting on you!

[FkLA]

Yet another reason to hate Enrique. That faggot saw a chance at personal glory when he saw Boobie and took a FMVP that rightfully belongs to Timmy. French faggot lessened our GOAT's legacy and singlehandedly caused the fall of our dynasty. What a POS.

Not that he isn't a Top 5 GOAT already but 5 rings, 4 FMVPs, 2 MVPs would've looked much nicer tbh.

[Malik Hairston]

LeBron is the GOAT if he beats the historic Warriors with a mediocre supporting cast, tbh..there's virtually no chance that they will beat the Warriors, though, they're going to lose in 5, I would be surprised if it goes 6..

The Cavs offense isn't sustainable against legit teams, let alone a dominant team like the Warriors that has 3 really good(elite, in Green's case) defenders to throw at James..

[Juggity]

Nah, not yet.

One of the primary reasons MJ is considered the GOAT is going 6/6 in the finals with FMVP honors each time. Whether we like it or not, the meta-storyline of the history of the NBA is written by both casual and hardcore fans. Not everyone tunes in for non-finals basketball, but you can be sure everyone's got their eye on the finals. In some sense, the Finals is the ultimate expression of the sport of basketball. What is done in the finals is written in the pages of basketball history in a way no other level of play is. To lose in the finals is to lose on a massive stage with everyone watching. We can't ignore the elephant in the room. 2011 was really harmful to Lebron's legacy. Losing the way he did hurts him when compared to players who never had a horrible, nightmarishly bad finals. Losing once might be an aberration. Losing twice might be tough luck. Losing three times (with one as bad as 2011) is seen as a pattern that pushes him out of the realm of GOAT discussion. 2011 (combined with the more excusable losses 2014 and 2007) has created an enormous obstacle to ever reaching parity with MJ in the GOAT discussion — a discussion fueled by casual fans as well as hardcore fans.

The same logic that prevents Lebron from being considered the GOAT is the logic that prevents him form being considered Tim's equal right now. A below .500 finals record (2/5) with a finals as bad as 2011 is something that can only be overcome by winning more titles. And I guarantee you that Lebron knows this and will spend the rest of his career trying to overcome it. For NBA players who already have all they could want in terms of wealth, what matters most is respect. Respect is earned in the NBA Finals, with a series MVP in hand.

[Sean Cagney]

LeBron is the GOAT if he beats the historic Warriors with a mediocre supporting cast, tbh..there's virtually no chance that they will beat the Warriors, though, they're going to lose in 5, I would be surprised if it goes 6..

The Cavs offense isn't sustainable against legit teams, let alone a dominant team like the Warriors that has 3 really good(elite, in Green's case) defenders to throw at James..They will lose to the Warriors, agreed on that. I don't see them winning two games.

[spursparker9]

Its such a discount to play in the East

[kobyz]

All thanks to pop...

[Mikeanaro]

Timmy has 2 MVP, 3 FMVP, and 5 rings, or 10 points total.

LeBron will have 4 MVP, 3 FMVP and 3 rings, also 10 points.

So a flatulent Regular Season MVP has the same value than a ring?
The whole FMVP is overrated too, one player doesnt win championships just by himself wtf is that? oh yes media bullshit.
And thats just what Leturd is, also playing for the East conference is a big negative Spurs would have 9 rings playing in that shitty conference, one West ring equals 3 East rings.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fSlLdXNzPw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6iibPJb-yo
:lmao Comparing Built vs Bought

[SASdynasty!]

Yet another reason to hate Enrique. That faggot saw a chance at personal glory when he saw Boobie and took a FMVP that rightfully belongs to Timmy. French faggot lessened our GOAT's legacy and singlehandedly caused the fall of our dynasty. What a POS.

Not that he isn't a Top 5 GOAT already but 5 rings, 4 FMVPs, 2 MVPs would've looked much nicer tbh.
Lol, now the truth comes out. You guys need Tony Parker to be bad to prop up Duncan, so you try and create the narrative.

[JohnnyMax]

If he wins, it puts him in position to pass Duncan and Kobe by next year

[Tuddy]

Warriors in 4 or 5

[pgardn]

Cleveland is playing tough. Guys know their roles and are giving huge efforts. Mozgav, Thompson, and that Fckn wild Australian point are playing very tough. Throw in Smith, and Lebron can have a bad night in the week East. They are playing ugly winning basketball, it's perfect for the teams they face. Atlanta has completely stopped moving the ball, desperation is fueling individual stupidity.

[pgardn]

And we must always remember the Spurs and Duncan broke the Heat's and Lebron's hope.

Along with adding tinder to the Kobe/Shaquille feud, this is most pleasing, busting teams up.

[BillMc]

If LeBron wins he's only at 3 rings, Timmy has 5 and is 2-1 against him in the Finals (with LeBron's only win coming by the narrowest of margins). LeBron also has declined precipitously on defense in recent years, while Timmy is still among the league's best. While I agree that the casual masses, who only know players from ESPN highlight plays, Q scores, or commercials and those who always view the current leader as "the best ever" will deem LeBron over Timmy (if they don't already), I think those that study basketball will admit he's got a ways to go to pass Duncan.

[TheGreatYacht]

All because Matt Barnes punked our SF with Aspergers

[Old School 44]

Its such a discount to play in the East
Sadly, when all is said and done, media historians will only be counting rings and times in the championship series. LeBron's a great player and all, but when you basically have a bye to the Eastern Conference finals legacy wise, it really is unfair to star players in the West.

[james evans]

LeBron is the GOAT if he beats the historic Warriors with a mediocre supporting cast, tbh..there's virtually no chance that they will beat the Warriors, though, they're going to lose in 5, I would be surprised if it goes 6..

The Cavs offense isn't sustainable against legit teams, let alone a dominant team like the Warriors that has 3 really good(elite, in Green's case) defenders to throw at James..
lebron is the greatest of all time if the cavs beat the warriors? :lol

[RD2191]

All because Matt Barnes punked our SF with Aspergers
Post game pics scott.

[FromWayDowntown]

Who cares? People who are going to exalt Lebron over Duncan are going to do that even if Lebron loses a 2-0 lead to a depleted Atlanta team. The narrative for Lebron will always excuse his failures and exaggerate his successes because that's the way the guy is covered.

[Obstructed_View]

Yet another reason to hate Enrique. That faggot saw a chance at personal glory when he saw Boobie and took a FMVP that rightfully belongs to Timmy. French faggot lessened our GOAT's legacy and singlehandedly caused the fall of our dynasty. What a POS.

Not that he isn't a Top 5 GOAT already but 5 rings, 4 FMVPs, 2 MVPs would've looked much nicer tbh.

You might have just taken the stupid trophy from ducks and DMC, bro. Nice job.

[tholdren]

op = royal douche

[Raven]

i sort of agree

[Silver&Black]

You might have just taken the stupid trophy from ducks and DMC, bro. Nice job.

Guy can't stand the fact that TP has a FMVP...2007 is seen as a bad year in his eyes.

:lol Player Fans

[barbacoataco]

Lebron and Duncan are very different players with different skills. Comparing them is kind of pointless.

As much as I kind of dislike him, Lebron is a force and has an effect on the game like no other. It's hard to tell how much he's benefitted from playing his whole career in d conference which is almost like the minor leagues.

[cjw]

Better questions is who will be cheering for Lebron in the Finals? I will be. If he somehow beats the Warriors...

[dbreiden83080]

GS is going to kick his ass

2-4 in the finals..

[dbreiden83080]

It's hard to tell how much he's benefitted from playing his whole career in d conference which is almost like the minor leagues.

ESPN talks about Lebron going to the finals 5 times in a row like it's a record of records.. This conference has mostly been a joke since Jordan retired in 98.. How else could the Cavs be beating up their ECF opponent when their all star PG is gimpy and their all star F is out for the playoffs?

[barbacoataco]

No question the East has been a wasteland. They are much weaker both in terms of elite top teams, and depth of contenders. The teams in the East only face a limited number of quality teams a year, so the season isn't such a grind. In the West practically the whole season was played hard since seeding was so tight.

All that said, Lebron is just an awesome player who does nearly everything on the court well. He used to he mentally weak but has improved considerably. The impact he has on the game is just huge. I also think he is on roids and HGH and wouldn't be surprised if he is discredited at some point, aka Bonds.

[BatManu20]

Lebron's destiny is Top 5, imvho.

[Thomas82]

Who cares? People who are going to exalt Lebron over Duncan are going to do that even if Lebron loses a 2-0 lead to a depleted Atlanta team. The narrative for Lebron will always excuse his failures and exaggerate his successes because that's the way the guy is covered.

I couldn't have said that better.

[hitmantb]

Lebron's destiny is Top 5, imvho.

He can hit top 3 IMO with two more rings and FMVP's, behind only MJ and Kareem.

[tmtcsc]

i hope he gets swept. will prolly happen.

[baseline bum]

LeBron has about as much chance of winning the 2015 title as Duncan does.

[Clipper Nation]

All because Matt Barnes punked our SF with Aspergers
Are you Scott or Joe, faggot?


The narrative for Lebron will always excuse his failures and exaggerate his successes because that's the way the guy is covered.
:lmao The media narrative of LeBron is literally the exact opposite of that. You must be thinking of DK or Kirby.

[SanAntonioSpurs23]

OP is fucking retarded

[elemento]

He will get his butt kicked in the Finals once again and then the supporting cast excuse will come up again, per usual.

Lebron is great when things are flowing his way. But when things get ugly, he fades and that's what's going to happen in the Finals once Curry/Thompson get hot.

[exstatic]

LeBron. 2-3
Tim 5-1

/thread

[NASpurs]

Duncan has had to play the:

Shaq/Kobe Lakers
Kobe/Gasol/Bynum Lakers
Nash/Stoudemire Suns
Dirk Mavs
Westbrook/Durant Thunder

It's been a nightmare for the past decade and a half. Who the fuck did Lebron have trouble with? The Garnett/Pierce/Allen Celtics? Baldy has been getting a pass every fucking year for staying in that shitty conference.

[BillMc]

Duncan has had to play the:

Shaq/Kobe Lakers
Kobe/Gasol/Bynum Lakers
Nash/Stoudemire Suns
Dirk Mavs
Westbrook/Durant Thunder

It's been a nightmare for the past decade and a half. Who the fuck did Lebron have trouble with? The Garnett/Pierce/Allen Celtics? Baldy has been getting a pass every fucking year for staying in that shitty conference.


LeBron. 2-3
Tim 5-1

/thread

[Seventyniner]

People will not remember what actually happened, they will just count the hardware. They will look at Duncan's last two rings and say he wasn't the first option on these teams.

Those two sentences directly contradict each other.

[Vito Corleone]

I consider 2003 Duncan's supporting cast to be the weakest championship team ever, 2003 post season win share was the highest ever:

That might be the stupidest thing I ever read.

Starters Tim, DRob, Bowen, Tony, and Jackson
Reserves: Manu, Kerr, Speedy, Smith, Ferry, Rose, and Willis

Outside of last years team this was the best Spurs team ever. Starters across the board were awesome. The front line was good enough to slow down Shaq and overwhelm everyone else. Bowen, Jackson and Manu did a job on Kobe.

Now Tony was still a young PG but having Speedy and Kerr to back him up made them the best PG combo in the league. Jackson, Manu and Kerr was the best SG combo in the league. This team was good enough to beat you with their defense, with their offense, pounding the rock in the paint or killing you with three pointers. This team was good enough to beat you uptempo or slow pace. They were untested that year, and ending the Lakers run was no small feat.

[Thomas82]

Duncan has had to play the:

Shaq/Kobe Lakers
Kobe/Gasol/Bynum Lakers
Nash/Stoudemire Suns
Dirk Mavs
Westbrook/Durant Thunder

It's been a nightmare for the past decade and a half. Who the fuck did Lebron have trouble with? The Garnett/Pierce/Allen Celtics? Baldy has been getting a pass every fucking year for staying in that shitty conference.


LeBron. 2-3
Tim 5-1

/thread

That's it and that's all!!

[aal04]

We will see. ECF is a friggen cakewalk. We win another 3-4 rings in last 20 years in ecf.

[hitmantb]

That might be the stupidest thing I ever read.

Starters Tim, DRob, Bowen, Tony, and Jackson
Reserves: Manu, Kerr, Speedy, Smith, Ferry, Rose, and Willis

Outside of last years team this was the best Spurs team ever. Starters across the board were awesome. The front line was good enough to slow down Shaq and overwhelm everyone else. Bowen, Jackson and Manu did a job on Kobe.

Now Tony was still a young PG but having Speedy and Kerr to back him up made them the best PG combo in the league. Jackson, Manu and Kerr was the best SG combo in the league. This team was good enough to beat you with their defense, with their offense, pounding the rock in the paint or killing you with three pointers. This team was good enough to beat you uptempo or slow pace. They were untested that year, and ending the Lakers run was no small feat.

Sorry you were talking about:

David Robinson: Final season, a great role player but that was it, a role player.
Manu Ginobili: Rookie season, only brief moments of brilliance and unreliable.
Tony Parker: Played so bad he was benched in favor of Claxton

When your second leading scorer was Stephen Jackson, it is a not a good team at all. There is a reason 2003 Duncan had the greatest win share of any post season player ever.

[hitmantb]

Those two sentences directly contradict each other.

When your ring doesn't have FMVP attached, were you Scottie Pippen or Robert Horry on these title teams? 20 years from now, people won't remember the details, they will just count the hardware and say "he wasn't the first option on these teams and the lack of FMVP proves it".

[Mikeanaro]

When your ring doesn't have FMVP attached, were you Scottie Pippen or Robert Horry on these title teams? 20 years from now, people won't remember the details, they will just count the hardware and say "he wasn't the first option on these teams and the lack of FMVP proves it".
In 20 years people wont give a shit, anyway lebum is a whore and I will remember his 2-6 forever and counting.