Spurs Decline to Match Jazz Offer

[Old School Chic]

:depressed

Salt Lake City – Utah Jazz President, Dennis Haslam, announced today that the San Antonio Spurs have not matched the Jazz’ offer sheet to Devin Brown. Per club policy terms of the agreement were not disclosed.



Brown is currently in San Antonio doing charitable work in conjunction with the Salvation Army for the victims of Hurricane Katrina. He will be in Utah on Wednesday, September 14 for a physical and press conference at 2:00 pm at the Zions Bank Basketball Center.



Brown spent last season with the San Antonio Spurs playing in 67 games averaging a career high 7.4 points, 2.6 rebounds and 1.4 assists in 18.5 minutes per game.



The 6-5 guard out of Texas-San Antonio was not drafted out of college and has played in 135 career games averaging 5.6 points, 2.4 rebounds and 1.0 assists in 14.5 minutes per game. He has spent time with the San Antonio Spurs and the Denver Nuggets.

[Lonestar]

Damn, you're all over the announcement, way to go. I'll miss Devin but he deserves to play.

[clubalien]

good thing he didn't sign with nets oir he wouldnt have passed his physcial

[Marcus Bryant]

GO SPURS GO!

:shootme

[mcdunk]

So long Devin, wish you well.

[Kip Fanatic]

Well, I lost some more Vbookie cash. Oh well, at least will get playing time.

[team-work]

Feeling like a lover departing due to objection by parents.

[Walton Buys Off Me]

Yeah what a crappy offseason- resign Robert Horry, bring in Fabricio Oberto and lure Nick Van Exel and Michael Finley to San Antonio. This, after winning a championship.

But wait people........we did lose a an undersized, third string shooting guard that had nerve damage so bad in his back he couldn't walk for about a month last year. So you better knock that smile off your faces real quick. People in Miami, Phoenix and Detroit are grinning from ear to ear after this huge loss.

Damn, it sure sucks to be a Spurs fan these days..........

And to think of all those contributions Devin Brown made to our championship teams....where else can we find a 6'5" inch guy that can wave a towel?

Let's all go shoot ourselves now.

On a footnote, Devin Brown is a total class act that Walton wishes only the best for. Jerry Sloan will find use for him, no doubt.

[wildbill2u]

:depressed

Salt Lake City – Utah Jazz President, Dennis Haslam, announced today that the San Antonio Spurs have not matched the Jazz’ offer sheet to Devin Brown. Per club policy terms of the agreement were not disclosed.

well, life goes on in sports, even when fan favorites move on. I wish Devin a great career--except when he plays the Spurs.

[team-work]

Well, hats off to the Spurs front-office with all the exciting and great offseasons moves. Hope that the emotions caused by Devin's departures will be offset soon by the great plays of this new Spurs team.

[AlamoSpursFan]

A little birdy told me that Devin might just be a guest on today's Chris Duel Show on KTSA...

[tekdragon]

I hate to say it, but I agree totally with Dub.

The loss of Devin has been waaaay overhyped. I think we'll be fine without him. We were fine without him last year.

It's totally win-win. The Spurs don't have such a log-jam at the swing positions, and Devin gets to play, which is definitely the best thing for him.

[ObiwanGinobili]

excuse me while I take this time to cry my friggin eyes out. :cry :cry :cry :depressed

cap room, 12thman, no floor time.. blah blah blah.. I DON'T CARE! :( I wanted Devin to stay a Spur 4-eva

[Kori Ellis]

The loss of Devin has been waaaay overhyped. I think we'll be fine without him. We were fine without him last year.

It's totally win-win. The Spurs don't have such a log-jam at the swing positions, and Devin gets to play, which is definitely the best thing for him.

No one is overhyping it except the haters who are exagerating how other people are reacting.

Yes, it's a win-win for this season.

But ideally, the Spurs would have gotten rid of a contract and kept him (and yes, the Spurs F.O. thinks that would have been ideal too ... otherwise they wouldn't have spent the last few weeks trying to make it work).

Next summer, we'll see if it will be a smart move long term. Finley's one year contract will be over. And Barry will be almost 35 years old.

Good luck, Devin.

[TOP-CHERRY]

excuse me while I take this time to cry my friggin eyes out. :cry :cry :cry :depressed

cap room, 12thman, no floor time.. blah blah blah.. I DON'T CARE! :( I wanted Devin to stay a Spur 4-eva


That's 'bidness. :)

[Marcus Bryant]

Next summer, we'll see if it will be a smart move long term. Finley's one year contract will be over. And Barry will be almost 35 years old.

Some here seem incapable of understanding it. Holt Cat's nut must taste too good.




Good luck, Devin.

Indeed.

[timvp]

Spurs fans quickly forget what happened between 1999 and 2003. The Spurs got old and slow on the perimeter and other teams in the league, namely the Lakers, used that flaw to embarrass the team. I remember Kobe hounding Terry Porter full court and Shaq bending over Danny Ferry.

The Spurs need a young athlete at the swing position to come off the bench. Devin fit the bill.

Now this year with the addition of Finley, they can probably survive without that. But sooner than Spurs fans realize, it will become a glaring hole if the Spurs don't plug it.

Remember 2001.

[team-work]

Now that Devin gets his expected salary, what's the chance he has enough playing time, given Jazz's current roster? (Suppose he is injury-free)

[timvp]

Now that Devin gets his expected salary, what's the chance he has enough playing time, given Jazz's current roster? (Suppose he is injury-free)

He'll probably start and average 30 minutes per game.

[angel_luv]

Our loss is Utah's huge gain! Best of luck, Devin. = ) .


Hey, does Devin get to come here for the ring/ banner ceremony? It wouldn't be quite right without him.

[spurs=bling]

Don't worry he'll come back again like he has before

CAREER TRANSACTIONS
Went unpicked in the 2002 NBA Draft … signed as a free agent by the Spurs (9/30/02) … waived by the Spurs (10/23/02) … signed as a free agent by the Spurs (11/3/02) … waived by the Spurs (11/19/02) … signed by the Nuggets to a 10-day contract (4/4/03) … signed as a free agent by the Spurs (8/1/03

[Marcus Bryant]

Plus you never know when depth will be important in a given season. It may turn out to have been worthwhile to have a Devin Brown at the end of the bench in the upcoming season.

But no, let's fucking cheer when Holt Cat saves a few bucks. Anyone have some Vaseline and toilet paper up in here?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Look, it sucks that we lost Devin. I liked his hustle and energy.

But the Spurs couldn't find anyone at the moment willing to take players off their hands to the extent that they would free up enough cap room to make Devin's signing anything other than a 5 million dollar cap hit.

It sucks, but about the only way this wasn't going to happen was if the Spurs didn't get Finley or they found someone to trade another player or two over to who would send us back less salary in return.

And as we all know, teams pretty much don't want to help us one bit.

[Marcus Bryant]

Look, it sucks that we lost Devin. I liked his hustle and energy.

But the Spurs couldn't find anyone at the moment willing to take players off their hands to the extent that they would free up enough cap room to make Devin's signing anything other than a 5 million dollar cap hit.

It sucks, but about the only way this wasn't going to happen was if the Spurs didn't get Finley or they found someone to trade another player or two over to who would send us back less salary in return.

And as we all know, teams pretty much don't want to help us one bit.


Yes, the Spurs are cheap.

[whottt]

Spurs fans quickly forget what happened between 1999 and 2003. The Spurs got old and slow on the perimeter and other teams in the league, namely the Lakers, used that flaw to embarrass the team. I remember Kobe hounding Terry Porter full court and Shaq bending over Danny Ferry.

The Spurs need a young athlete at the swing position to come off the bench. Devin fit the bill.

Now this year with the addition of Finley, they can probably survive without that. But sooner than Spurs fans realize, it will become a glaring hole if the Spurs don't plug it.

Remember 2001.



He's right...I personally don't think we needed Finley and don't think he's going to be a good fit for this team. I think Devin was set to come into his own this season as a scoring defensive presence off the bench. I think Finely will put up numbers...but I don't trust him in the post season.

And Barry, Bruce, Finley...those guys play the positions with the shortest NBA life span...Manu is the only young guy we have playing 2 guard or SF...

It would have been nice to have some young energy that can play D or hit open shots at those positions...

Plus, Devin took a pay cut and less PT to come here, and he had put in enough time with the team to deserve being given a shot...it just seems like the Spurs kind of jerked him around.

In fairness to the Spurs...I think the back did make them nervous...

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

But no, let's fucking cheer when Holt Cat saves a few bucks.

Yeah, he should have grabbed the vaseline for himself and paid 5 million dollars a year for an end of bench towel waver.

If you want that I hear Jack Haley is looking for work.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, he should have grabbed the vaseline for himself and paid 5 million dollars a year for an end of bench towel waver.

If you want that I hear Jack Haley is looking for work.


Come next season when NVE retires, Finley leaves and Barry is, well, Barry, we can all rejoice at the fact that Holt Cat saved a few bucks.

*slurp* up that nut, AHF.

[ChumpDumper]

So, there will be no young guards left in the league after next season?

This falls under "worry later."

[Marcus Bryant]

Maybe, perhaps, maybe the Spurs could keep a Glenn Robinson (who apparently at the moment is struggling to find a home in this league) for the min with the carrot of a payday next summer when the Spurs will have his Early Bird rights.

But my God! A half million for an end of the bench player!?!?! Holt Cat can't have that. After all, he's gotta feed his kids.

[Kori Ellis]

This falls under "worry later."

Exactly what I meant by my prior post.

But I was just noting that Spurs fans shouldn't be rejoicing that the Spurs are set for years to come.

They are in awesome shape for the upcoming season, however. And that's all that really matters to me right now.

[Marcus Bryant]

Exactly what I meant by my prior post.

But I was just noting that Spurs fans shouldn't be rejoicing that the Spurs are set for years to come.

They are in awesome shape for the upcoming season, however. And that's all that really matters to me right now.


True, but the newfound depth is somewhat illusory. Maybe they can find a young swing as good as DB. Maybe.

[whottt]

Maybe, perhaps, maybe the Spurs could keep a Glenn Robinson (who apparently at the moment is struggling to find a home in this league) for the min with the carrot of a payday next summer when the Spurs will have his Early Bird rights.

But my God! A half million for an end of the bench player!?!?! Holt Cat can't have that. After all, he's gotta feed his kids.


That still doesn't solve the age issue....Our bench is old. As long as our young guys stay healthy it's fine...but if they don't...2001 all over again.

[ChumpDumper]

But I was just noting that Spurs fans shouldn't be rejoicing that the Spurs are set for years to come.I agree, but given the holes this team has had to fill in the past (e.g., signing Bruce for the minimum when he was the ONLY decent SF available), I can't be overly worried right now. Now I can just wait for the training camp roster to see if a Devin replacement could be in the pipeline.

[timvp]

Rodney White, Theron Smith, Jason Kapono ... hmm the list is getting pretty short of players who can be had this summer who could fill a Devin Brown like role. Even in an emergency situation.

[Marcus Bryant]

That still doesn't solve the age issue....Our bench is old. As long as our young guys stay healthy it's fine...but if they don't...2001 all over again.


Well, he would be great insurance to have for the end of the bench. Considering that it seems likely the Spurs will be making at least one trade in the near year, he would be useful either for depth afterwards or as a trade sweetener.

[spur219]

He will be missed.

[Marcus Bryant]

Rodney White, Theron Smith, Jason Kapono ... hmm the list is getting pretty short of players who can be had this summer who could fill a Devin Brown like role. Even in an emergency situation.

Problem is, if they are balking at 1 year for $2.5 mil, they will likely have a problem paying any of those guys right now.

[tekdragon]

Free-agents want to come here now, remember?

Devin does fit the bill for what we *might* need next year, or the following year, but he isn't the only option. He might not even be the best option.

What if his injury resurfaces this season?

There are other young swingmen who are taller, younger, or cheaper that will fit what we're looking for just as well as Devin can.

You make it sound like he's irreplaceable. How many undersized swingmen are there floating around in the league?

Losing Devin Brown = Spurs Championship window closed after this year

Are you serious? There are no options available beyond Devin Fucking Brown?

You're damn right I'm on Holt's nuts. I'm on Pop's nuts, too. They brought us a Championship last year, and they've positioned themselves to do it again.

Oh, but they let Devin Brown get away. We should stage a coup. They're obviously totally incompetent.

Go root for the Jazz...they're a lock this year. And next.

Devin Brown = Championship

[ZStomp]

You win some. you lose some.

it's not like the spurs lost something big..

[ChumpDumper]

Problem is, if they are balking at 1 year for $2.5 mil, they will likely have a problem paying any of those guys right now.I doubt any of these guys get more than the minimum -- and there's always the "player to be named later" currently on no one's radar.

[tekdragon]

That still doesn't solve the age issue....Our bench is old. As long as our young guys stay healthy it's fine...but if they don't...2001 all over again.

...so as insurance for a healthy squad, we should turn to Ironman Devin Brown?

[ZStomp]

Spurs fans quickly forget what happened between 1999 and 2003. The Spurs got old and slow on the perimeter and other teams in the league, namely the Lakers, used that flaw to embarrass the team. I remember Kobe hounding Terry Porter full court and Shaq bending over Danny Ferry.

The Spurs need a young athlete at the swing position to come off the bench. Devin fit the bill.

Now this year with the addition of Finley, they can probably survive without that. But sooner than Spurs fans realize, it will become a glaring hole if the Spurs don't plug it.

Remember 2001.


And I'm sure the Spurs will find someone to replace Brown next year if needed. Don't make it seem as if Brown isn't or couldn't be replaced. it's not the end of the world.

[Kori Ellis]

Oh, but they let Devin Brown get away. We should stage a coup. They're obviously totally incompetent.

Go root for the Jazz...they're a lock this year. And next.

Devin Brown = Championship

There you go with your textbook exagerations.

[Marcus Bryant]

They haven't won the title every season. TD doesn't have time to wait forever. You can go ahead and try to justify the loss of talent on account of the cheapness of ownership, an ownership that has fucking enjoyed having 2nd and 3rd stars on low money contracts while feasting on the lux tax distributions they got from the rest of the league, but I'm not. I don't give a fuck about how much ownership is going to get hurt if for once they have to spend a little. Between the arena deal and the lux tax program the Spurs have been raking in the $. Maybe that's what you care about as a Spurs fan, but frankly I could give a fuck less. I just saw the Spurs lose a talented young guard for nothing in return. Fucking awesome.

[Kori Ellis]

And I'm sure the Spurs will find someone to replace Brown next year if needed.

If needed?

They'll have to find someone next summer (and I'm sure they will). Finley's contract will be up, Barry will be 35, and Devin isn't here anymore.

Devin was good insurance to have because Finley's contract is (reportedly) only one season.

Next summer, the Spurs will need to find TWO backup swingmen. One to replace Finley and one to replace Barry. Plus they'll have to deal with/figure out the Rasho/Nazr situation.

This summer was incredible - the Spurs got awesome short term pickups in Finley and NVE. And someone who might play well in Oberto.

Next summer, they'll be a lot more gaps.

I'm not fretting it. I'm just saying that the Spurs aren't a "lock" for a dynasty. They'll have big holes next summer.

[timvp]

With how hard the Spurs tried to trade players to bring Devin back in, you can assume that Pop and RC weren't on the "let Devin Brown walk, we can find someone better" boat. They wanted him to stay ... but instead, he became a luxury tax casualty.

I'm hoping the Spurs can pull another rabbit out of their hat and get another swingman gem on the cheap, but if that was so easy what happened between 1999 and 2003? All I remember was Terry Porter bringing the ball up and the Lakers treating him like live bait to their piranha.

[ChumpDumper]

Who was the last player signed for $2.5 million by a team over the tax threshold for the express purpose of being a 12th man?

[Marcus Bryant]

Who was the last player signed for $2.5 million by a team over the tax threshold for the express purpose of being a 12th man?


What was the last team in such a position?

[ZStomp]

If needed?

When needed.

[Kori Ellis]

Who was the last player signed for $2.5 million by a team over the tax threshold for the express purpose of being a 12th man?

Well they weren't planning on him being the 12th man. They were trying to deal somone else so that he could be in the rotation.

That didn't work out.

[timvp]

Who was the last player signed for $2.5 million by a team over the tax threshold for the express purpose of being a 12th man?

Evan Eschmeyer.

Apology Accepted.

:smokin

[ZStomp]

Yeah, he should have grabbed the vaseline for himself and paid 5 million dollars a year for an end of bench towel waver.

If you want that I hear Jack Haley is looking for work.


I have to agree with AHF..and that doesn't happen much. This move doesn't bother me. Life goes on. Life will prevail.

[Marcus Bryant]

With how hard the Spurs tried to trade players to bring Devin back in, you can assume that Pop and RC weren't on the "let Devin Brown walk, we can find someone better" boat. They wanted him to stay ... but instead, he became a luxury tax casualty.

I'm hoping the Spurs can pull another rabbit out of their hat and get another swingman gem on the cheap, but if that was so easy what happened between 1999 and 2003? All I remember was Terry Porter bringing the ball up and the Lakers treating him like live bait to their piranha.


Indeed. Not every Spurs' offseason has been like this one. Also, the lux tax amnesty rule is done. You can't count on picking up vets like Finley willing to take nothing to have a shot at the ring because Cubana Boy is paying them $5 mil a year for life.

[ChumpDumper]

for the express purpose of being a 12th man?Apology not given.

[timvp]

Bottomline is the Spurs have nothing to worry about if Bruce Bowen, Manu Ginobili, Michael Finley and Brent Barry stay healthy all year.

[thispego]

That still doesn't solve the age issue....Our bench is old. As long as our young guys stay healthy it's fine...but if they don't...2001 all over again.
:rolleyes

[timvp]

Apology not given.

Was Eschmeyer slated for anything other than a 12-man?

:lol

[tekdragon]

There you go with your textbook exagerations.

Of course it's an exaggeration...that's the point. Isn't it also an exaggeration to say that the FO botched the offseason (and are not deserving of our support) because we let our 12th man slip away? Isn't it also an exaggeration to say that those who are happy with the front office's moves this offseason are sucking someone's nuts?

If we're getting called out for exaggerations, I don't think I'm the primary culprit.

Just be happy for Devin. He gets to play and grow as a player instead of watching from the pine. As a fan of Devin, I want what's best for him. As a fan of the Spurs, I want what's best for the organization...the business side as well as the basketball side. In my opinion, this is the best possible outcome for all involved.

Of course, having that opinion means I'm sucking someone's nuts.

And, apparantly, that's no exaggeration.

[timvp]

Isn't it also an exaggeration to say that the FO botched the offseason (and are not deserving of our support) because we let our 12th man slip away? Isn't it also an exaggeration to say that those who are happy with the front office's moves this offseason are sucking someone's nuts?

The issue some have is this wasn't a front office decision ... it was an ownership decision. Strictly on a basketball basis, the Spurs match.

[samikeyp]

I liked Devin and am sorry to see him go. However the Spurs aren't going to win or lose the title over the loss of Devin Brown. So far, the Spurs have been able to be thrifty and in contention. Injuries could cripple this team even if Devin was still here. The Spurs have been good about filling holes in the roster and staying contenders. It will not be easy to stay that way but it never was. Now is not the time to panic.

[Marcus Bryant]

I liked Devin and am sorry to see him go. However the Spurs aren't going to win or lose the title over the loss of Devin Brown.

...next season. After that, having a Devin Brown around to replace a 55 year old Brent Barry, a retiring NVE or a departing Finley would go a long way to making future titles a little easier to obtain.




So far, the Spurs have been able to be thrifty and in contention. Injuries could cripple this team even if Devin was still here. The Spurs have been good about filling holes in the roster and staying contenders.


Not in every offseason. There were some years in which a young guy like DBrown would've seemed like a Godsend.



It will not be easy to stay that way but it never was. Now is not the time to panic.

It's not panicking. It's being pissed off at an ownership that is being cheap and making a bad move for strictly financial reasons.

Losing Devin Brown for nothing is a horrible basketball move. No surprise some here are defending that.

[ZStomp]

I liked Devin and am sorry to see him go. However the Spurs aren't going to win or lose the title over the loss of Devin Brown. So far, the Spurs have been able to be thrifty and in contention. Injuries could cripple this team even if Devin was still here. The Spurs have been good about filling holes in the roster and staying contenders. It will not be easy to stay that way but it never was. Now is not the time to panic.


That's what I'm talking about. No need to panic.

[Kori Ellis]

Isn't it also an exaggeration to say that the FO botched the offseason (and are not deserving of our support) because we let our 12th man slip away?

No one said that.


As a fan of the Spurs, I want what's best for the organization...the business side as well as the basketball side. In my opinion, this is the best possible outcome for all involved.

Well basketball side, this probably wasn't the best thing to happen. Otherwise the Spurs wouldn't have been trying to make a deal.

[tekdragon]

The issue some have is this wasn't a front office decision ... it was an ownership decision. Strictly on a basketball basis, the Spurs match.

Fair enough.

There's something to be said for fiscal responsibility, too. The Spurs got where they are today in large part by making sound financial decisions.

Holt might not be perfect, but I wouldn't trade him for Paul Allen or Mark Cuban.

Spending more is not always the best solution.

[timvp]

Casey Jacobsen and Matt Barns are two more players that would fill the fifth swingman spot. Get one of the five that I've mentioned and the Spurs should be okay ... even if someone does get injured.

[ChumpDumper]

Was Eschmeyer slated for anything other than a 12-man?Yeah, he was a panic signing after they lost Calvin "Insert Joke Here" Booth as their backup center.

[Kori Ellis]

I think Casey Jacobsen is going to the Heat. (Wait, did I read that, or dream that?)

[samikeyp]

Losing Devin Brown for nothing is a horrible basketball move. No surprise some here are defending that.

im not defending it...I would have rather him have stayed.

[Kori Ellis]

im not defending it...I would have rather him have stayed.

Never mind, nice quick edit Mikey.

[timvp]

Another thing to consider is remember 2003. The Spurs went into the season with Steve Smith as the starting shooting guard. He sucked and they went with their rookie gem Manu Ginobili. Ginobili struggled as he was still coming back from his ankle injury.

The Spurs didn't find the answer until they went to their sixth swingman option in Stephen Jackson.

For as good as Finley and Van Exel will be, planning for the unexpected is always smart. Having four swingmen on the roster won't cut it.

[samikeyp]

Neither is everyone else. Just noting, that next offseason is probably going to be a difficult one.

thanks Kori!. :lol I didn't want to come across as inflammatory because that was not the intent.

[Kori Ellis]

The Spurs will likely sign one of the leftover swingmen to start the season on the inactive list. Be it, Jacobsen, Barnes or whoever.

[Kori Ellis]

I never said anyone was...I was responding to MB's assesment of my post.


Yes, you did. You said "freaking out" and then you edited your post. Don't try to be sly.

[samikeyp]

see second edit. :)

[Kori Ellis]

Man MikeyP is editing his posts faster than lightning causing 3 different conversations :lol

[samikeyp]

I was, though, referring to the "defending" part of that.

[samikeyp]

gotta keep people on their toes. :p I figure a new post might be better than re-re-re-editing! :lol

[Kori Ellis]

My hope is that the Spurs grab a young swingman now, who spends most of this season (2005-06) on the inactive list and then next year can move into the "first swingman off the bench" role. That way, next year if the Spurs get stuck keeping Barry, Barry can just get spot minutes in 2006-07.

[tekdragon]

No one said that.

The implications are clear. There are some people who just will never support Holt under any conditions.

We won a Championship, we had a great offseason, but there's still complaining to be done.

But you're right. No one said it was about Devin, I misinterpreted that.

The haters would find another reason to hate had we signed Devin.

Or, maybe...would resigning Devin get MB to give Holt's nuts at least a little kiss? Would he at least go so far as to acknowledge that Holt has nuts?

Naw....Holt can't take back the firing of Bob Hill, can he?

Haters hate. Bitches bitch.

My fault for expecting anything more.

[Kori Ellis]

The implications are clear. There are some people who just will never support Holt under any conditions.

We won a Championship, we had a great offseason, but there's still complaining to be done.

But you're right. No one said it was about Devin, I misinterpreted that.

The haters would find another reason to hate had we signed Devin.

Or, maybe...would resigning Devin get MB to give Holt's nuts at least a little kiss? Would he at least go so far as to acknowledge that Holt has nuts?

Naw....Holt can't take back the firing of Bob Hill, can he?

Haters hate. Bitches bitch.

M fault for expecting anything more.

Whatever.

I think you overreact to anything negative about the front office. You also make sweeping generalizatons. MB says a couple remarks and then you go off on everyone in this thread who said that the Spurs have a couple reasons for concerns next summer and group them in the "haters" group. You need to go re-read your own posts and simmer down.

[SequSpur]

Thanks to the sorry ass foreigners named Beno and Rasho, Devin, the pride and joy of San Antonio is gone.

Nice.

[TheWriter]

Are people forgetting the guys we have stashed overseas?

[SequSpur]

Are people forgetting the guys we have stashed overseas?

More Non NBA Foreigners?

:rolleyes

[Kori Ellis]

Are people forgetting the guys we have stashed overseas?

No, but none of them are swingmen but Sanikidze. He's not going to be ready anytime soon.

[samikeyp]

Haters hate. Bitches bitch.

You are bitching about the lack of support for the FO, and you are hating on those who feel are not supporting them. So does that make you a bitchy hater or a hateful bitch?

[angel_luv]

Thanks to the sorry ass foreigners named Beno and Rasho, Devin, the pride and joy of San Antonio is gone.

Nice.

Don't be so short tempered. :lol

[SequSpur]

Don't be so short tempered. :lol


:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

:flipoff

:pctoss

[ChumpDumper]

One thing to note is that almost half the teams in the league are currently running 15 players or more on their rosters. We could possibly take someone's castoff or training camp star in the coming months.

[Kori Ellis]

One thing to note is that almost half the teams in the league are currently running 15 players or more on their rosters. We could possibly take someone's castoff or training camp star in the coming months.

I noticed that yesterday. I thought it was strange that some had 16/17 already. And others are still hanging around 11.

[TheWriter]

It's a one year deal for Devin. Who knows, he may be back next season.

But who cares that he's a Spur anymore.

[SequSpur]

Don't be so hard on yourself.

[AlamoSpursFan]

A little birdy told me that Devin might just be a guest on today's Chris Duel Show on KTSA...

Never mind...the same little birdy just told me he cancelled.

:pctoss

[samikeyp]

But who cares that he's a Spur anymore.

"care" might be a little strong for me. I would have liked to see him stay with the team but now that he is going elsewhere, I wish him well. I will still give to his food and clothes drive tomorrow! :)

[timvp]

Damn, what's worse ... the Spurs losing a swingman for nothing because of the luxury tax or having to root for the Jazz?

:spin

[Gummi]

Guys, please! There are hundreds of Devin Brown's out there. Stop this stupidity about a guy that was at best a decent role player.

And stop with the "the Spurs are getting too old" drama. TimVP, please don't tell me that Nick Van Exel and Michael Finley are the same as Danny Ferry and Terry Porter. Finley might be a top 20 SG in the league and you're telling me that he's too old for comming off the bench and play 25 minutes a night? Please. And Nick Van Exel is ten times better then Terry Porter was when he played here. Porter was washed up and tired. Van Exel with bad knees will do a better job then Porter did and I'm not saying that Porter was horrible when he played here, just too old and slow.

Sure TimVP, I can see what you're talking about. The Spurs do need to find a replacement for Bowen in the near future and possibly for Horry as well. But this season the Spurs are ready and loaded with talent. Too old now, NO. Does the Spurs front office need to find younger guys in the future, YES.

[JUUOT]

what about barnes??? has he disappeared. him for minimum this year and then replace finley and barry next year for more money.

[Kori Ellis]

One thing to note is that almost half the teams in the league are currently running 15 players or more on their rosters. We could possibly take someone's castoff or training camp star in the coming months.


The Sonics are the weirdest team of all. They only have 11 players signed ... and one of them is Petro, who they are saying is likely to be sent to the NBDL. They need to start scooping some players up.

[Kori Ellis]

Guys, please! There are hundreds of Devin Brown's out there. Stop this stupidity about a guy that was at best a decent role player.

And stop with the "the Spurs are getting too old" drama. TimVP, please don't tell me that Nick Van Exel and Michael Finley are the same as Danny Ferry and Terry Porter. Finley might be a top 20 SG in the league and you're telling me that he's too old for comming off the bench and play 25 minutes a night? Please. And Nick Van Exel is ten times better then Terry Porter was when he played here. Porter was washed up and tired. Van Exel with bad knees will do a better job then Porter did and I'm not saying that Porter was horrible when he played here, just too old and slow.

Sure TimVP, I can see what you're talking about. The Spurs do need to find a replacement for Bowen in the near future and possibly for Horry as well. But this season the Spurs are ready and loaded with talent. Too old now, NO. Does the Spurs front office need to find younger guys in the future, YES.

No one is saying that the Spurs are going to be old THIS season. But Finley and Van Exel signed ONE YEAR DEALS and Barry will be 35 next season. So the Spurs will definitley be short of young swingmen NEXT summer.

[2centsworth]

what about barnes??? has he disappeared. him for minimum this year and then replace finley and barry next year for more money.
good question.

[SequSpur]

[QUOTE=Gummi]Guys, please! There are hundreds of Devin Brown's out there. Stop this stupidity about a guy that was at best a decent role player.
[QUOTE]

:rolleyes

You must not be from San Antonio.

It's about the legacy of a SA high school star, turned SA college star, turned NBA pro in his home town.......

It's a little more than 100 Devin Browns.

:rolleyes

[ChumpDumper]

Yeah, Seattle's offseason has made the least sense so far. They are severely dragging their feet on taking care of really important free agents like Radman and Evans. If you squint you can almost see Mikki Moore starting at center.

[samikeyp]

No one is saying that the Spurs are going to be old THIS season. But Finley and Van Exel signed ONE YEAR DEALS and Barry will be 35 next season. So the Spurs will definitley be short of young swingmen NEXT summer.

can the Spurs get a decent one with the money that will be there when the Finley and NVE deals expire? or am I misunderstand how the cap works? (very possible)

[timvp]

TimVP, please don't tell me that Nick Van Exel and Michael Finley are the same as Danny Ferry and Terry Porter. Finley might be a top 20 SG in the league and you're telling me that he's too old for comming off the bench and play 25 minutes a night? Please.

Where'd I say that?


And Nick Van Exel is ten times better then Terry Porter was when he played here. Porter was washed up and tired. Van Exel with bad knees will do a better job then Porter did and I'm not saying that Porter was horrible when he played here, just too old and slow.

Actually, if Van Exel puts up Porter's numbers, I'd be shocked.


Sure TimVP, I can see what you're talking about. The Spurs do need to find a replacement for Bowen in the near future and possibly for Horry as well. But this season the Spurs are ready and loaded with talent. Too old now, NO. Does the Spurs front office need to find younger guys in the future, YES.

Glad that you agree with me.

:hat

[Kori Ellis]

good question.

I know that Barnes was only considering the Kings and the Spurs.

Then he came to San Antonio and worked out with the Spurs for three or four days, and then after that .. I haven't heard anything.

The Kings have 12 players signed (I think) so I guess he could sign there for the minimum just as easily as here.

Wasn't there also a report that the Spurs were after Kapono? Did he sign anywhere?

[Kori Ellis]

Yeah, Seattle's offseason has made the least sense so far. They are severely dragging their feet on taking care of really important free agents like Radman and Evans. If you squint you can almost see Mikki Moore starting at center.

I understand from someone near the organization that they are trying to avoid re-signing Evans. :lol No one knows what is happening with Radmanovic. I think they are still trying to deal him. Last I heard they were speaking with the Celtics.

[ChumpDumper]

I understand from someone near the organization that they are trying to avoid re-signing Evans. :lol No one knows what is happening with Radmanovic. I think they are still trying to deal him. Last I heard they were speaking with the Celtics.Ok, so Mikki starts at PF then....

I imagine they had to be looking for a trade, but it had better be near-blockbuster quality or else keeping Jesus makes no sense.

[Kori Ellis]

Well, I'll try to get more info about them. Noel has been invited up there early (starting next week) which is kind of odd too - training camp doesn't start for another three+ weeks.

[ChumpDumper]

Well, I'll try to get more info about them. Noel has been invited up there early (starting next week) which is kind of odd too - training camp doesn't start for another three+ weeks.Doesn't sound odd at all -- if things shake out like they seem to be now he could be firmly entrenched on the roster early. It'll be great if he gets a guarantee out of it.

[samikeyp]

can the Spurs get a decent swingman next year with the money that will be there when the Finley and NVE deals expire? or am I misunderstanding how the cap works? (very possible)

[Bruno]

No one is saying that the Spurs are going to be old THIS season. But Finley and Van Exel signed ONE YEAR DEALS and Barry will be 35 next season. So the Spurs will definitley be short of young swingmen NEXT summer.

Are you sure that finley sign only for one year with no team or player option for a second year ?
I know foxsport say 1 year but hoopshype which is quite serious list him as 3 years deal.

[ducks]

next summer could be intersting because the spurs will have the mle
they will have scola to deal with
they will need 2 swingmen to
or they can try to convince mike and nvl to play one more year at their current prices

[Kori Ellis]

Are you sure that finley sign only for one year with no team or player option for a second year ?
I know foxsport say 1 year but hoopshype which is quite serious list him as 3 years deal.

No, I don't know if it's 1 year for sure.

There's been no confirmation.

The AP article said 1 year. Patricia's basketball says 1 year. Fox Sports said 1 year. Hoopshype shows it as 1 year (http://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm). So at this point, that's what I'm assuming.

[yeahone]

well i think its good for devin and the best for his career,, with the spurs i dont think his assets and talent would have been maiximized it sad to see him go and at the same time i wish him all the best in his future and hope to see him in a sours uniform oneday again.....

[Bruno]

No, I don't know if it's 1 year for sure.

There's been no confirmation.

The AP article said 1 year. Patricia's basketball says 1 year. Fox Sports said 1 year. Hoopshype shows it as 1 year (http://hoopshype.com/salaries/san_antonio.htm). So at this point, that's what I'm assuming.

Hopshype shows 3 year (look at Parker contract and NVE contract, they fill with $0 when the contract ends).
If an AP article said 1 year, you're probably right.
Next offseason, if he wants to remain a Spurs, Spurs could use the Non-Bird exception to give him $3M without using the MLE.

[MannyIsGod]

The move had to be done. There's no way around it. You can call Holt cheap all you want, but the fact is this is a business and you have to make money while remaining competitive.

This fits the bill. While yes, it does mean they will have to add a young swing man next season it also means they have ways to get around that. They can sign another vet next season if it comes down to that, and address the issue the following offseason.

I think the Spurs did everything possible to move someone and keep Devin, but it just didn't happen. Either way, I can't fault the Spurs for not picking up the contract.

Do you think Devin would rather ride the pine here as the 12th man or actually havea chance to prove himself in Utah? I think that was a consideration as well.

[Guru of Nothing]

Do you think Devin would rather ride the pine here as the 12th man or actually havea chance to prove himself in Utah? I think that was a consideration as well.

That's sums up my thoughts on this matter.

Obviously playing for the Spurs was a dream come true for Devin (and he's got rings to boot); surely now he wants to move on to another dream of (possibly) starting in the NBA. I'm not up-to-date on the Jazz's roster, but with Raja Bell recently departed, Brown has opted for an opportunity to shine. It's an easy stretch that Devin will be a favorite of Sloan's, given the influence Pop had on his development.

If I'm Devin, I'm happy with the change, and all that it presents.

[Money316]

Vaya con Dios vato.
:fro :fro :fro

[duncan_21]

I think that if brown had a healthy back you gotta keep him around for the future. With no guarantees that a major injury won't reoccur I am happy they didn't sign him.

[ploto]

The issue some have is this wasn't a front office decision ... it was an ownership decision. Strictly on a basketball basis, the Spurs match.

That is the point of the attempts at trading Barry. The Spurs from a basketball stand-point do not see Devin as a better option than Brent. What they see financially is Devin at $2.5M and under the threshold as a better option than Barry at $5M and over the threshold.

[ploto]

No one knows what is happening with Radmanovic.
Vlade will take the qualifying offer and be unrestricted next summer.

[Vashner]

The bad back was THE only issue...
The MRI's showed it was still messed up. Plus he missed workouts.

Business is business... we are not a charity we are a championship team. And we can't spend 2 million on something that's gonna blow a transmission mid season.

[Kori Ellis]

The bad back was THE only issue...
The MRI's showed it was still messed up. Plus he missed workouts.

Who said that about the MRI?

[Horry For 3!]

I knew they weren't going to match the offer.

[SenorSpur]

Well, this is EXACTLY what I had been bitchin' about all summer. The late addition of Finley cost this team a promising young "swingman" in Devin Brown. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Getting Finley at that price was good, however the move was not worth losing Devin.

With the "no-luxury tax" mandate issued by Holt, I'm sure the FO worked diligently to try and move some contracts. However, they never should have put themselves at risk of losing him in the first place.

The hot pursuit of Finley reminds me of how they "kissed" JKidd's ass two summers ago. How'd that deal turn out? The best thing that happened to us is that he turned us down. Otherwise, the cap structure and cosmetic makeup of this team would have been radically different. Try winning a championship with no Manu and no Parker. But I digress.

Is there anyone here that doubts both Finley and NVE are one-year experiments? Sure, both are awesome additions, but for how long. As of now, there IS no long-term answer at the swing position. The Spurs "dicked" around with Finley long enough to miss out on Evans and now Brown is gone. I'm not sure what the status is with Matt Barnes. Besides, they've got no money left anyway and Holt wouldn't dare incur a luxury tax - no sir.

This was a short-term lease in which they mortgaged part of their future. It was simply not worth it. I doubt Fin will play next year for the same amount - especially if we win the championship. This team better hope they can reacquire Devin or a comparable replacement after this season.

[spurster]

This thread is a classic. MB, timvp, and Kori whining that the Spurs are not signing a 12th man for $2.5M. I thought whining about such things was GW's job. When you look at how such elite teams like Miami and Phoenix turn over half their roster, complaining about how the Spurs fill in their 12th man is just ridiculous. The Spurs have also turned over a lot of their roster in past years. Almost by definition, non-rotation slots are unstable.

[Marcus Bryant]

To recap...

The Spurs lost a talented player for nothing. That alone should give some of you pause for concern.

Secondly, they lost a talented and relatively young player at a position which is by no means locked down past this upcoming season.

Lastly, ownership has set a precedent that it is more worried about squeezing as much $ out of the team instead of plowing a little bit back in to maximize the supporting cast around TD. TD isn't going to be young forever. This is more of a 'principle of the matter' argument than just a gripe about losing Devin Brown. I want to see the Spurs make great basketball decisions.

I don't know why so many of you care so much about Holt Cat raking in more $. Maybe he has his family posting up in here now.

[wildbill2u]

No one is saying that the Spurs are going to be old THIS season. But Finley and Van Exel signed ONE YEAR DEALS and Barry will be 35 next season. So the Spurs will definitley be short of young swingmen NEXT summer.

Would anyone rather have had the Spurs NOT make the deals with NVE and Finley in order to keep Devin? If not, that is a telling description of his value to the team this coming season, ie. he's not better than Finley and/or NVE and would have ridden the bench behind them at best.

There are always young 'tweeners' who have a certain value but probably can't move into regular rotations in this league on some teams and have to bounce around between teams and sometimes between leagues and even countries. LJIII and Sato are just two examples who came through here last year.

Based on past performance including this offseason, I'm inclined to trust Pop and the FO in providing for new backups after this year.

[Sense]

This thread is a classic. MB, timvp, and Kori whining that the Spurs are not signing a 12th man for $2.5M. I thought whining about such things was GW's job. When you look at how such elite teams like Miami and Phoenix turn over half their roster, complaining about how the Spurs fill in their 12th man is just ridiculous. The Spurs have also turned over a lot of their roster in past years. Almost by definition, non-rotation slots are unstable.


I agree.

[Marcus Bryant]

It doesn't matter if Brown would've been the 7th, 12th, or 15th man next season. The Spurs just lost a valuable piece for nothing in return. That's the primary issue here. That's not a good basketball decision.

[DesiSpur_21]

IMO, losing Devin (yes..even for nothing) isn't a big deal. Yes, Spurs should've kept Devin or signed an younger SF as a reserve. I honestly think the FO tried moving Barry/Rasho to make room for Devin, but it just didn't happen. It's not like it's the end of the world. Trading Barry/Rasho is still an option going into the season to get a younger SF.

[ducks]

what this means is that devin brown is not brown's replacement
atleast spurs brass did not think so
if they thought so they would have paid the tax



I do not think brown is special like manu or tp
their are money brown's out there
not the end of the world

[Vashner]

I'll take the 2.2 million and the plane tix to Utah....

Yea ... sufferage is horrible for that low pay..

[Sense]

It doesn't matter if Brown would've been the 7th, 12th, or 15th man next season. The Spurs just lost a valuable piece for nothing in return. That's the primary issue here. That's not a good basketball decision.


You're acting like most fans after losing Malik...



Anyways, you'll see you'll get over it.

[baseline bum]

Spurs fans quickly forget what happened between 1999 and 2003. The Spurs got old and slow on the perimeter and other teams in the league, namely the Lakers, used that flaw to embarrass the team. I remember Kobe hounding Terry Porter full court and Shaq bending over Danny Ferry.

The Spurs need a young athlete at the swing position to come off the bench. Devin fit the bill.

Now this year with the addition of Finley, they can probably survive without that. But sooner than Spurs fans realize, it will become a glaring hole if the Spurs don't plug it.

Remember 2001.


2001? In 2001 the Spurs had 3 starters over 35. Right now 4/5 of the starting lineup is on the right side of 30.

You gotta build to win now, while Duncan's in his prime. Finley cost us Devin, but he gives this team a much better shot at repeating. There's no way Devin is anywhere near the talent Finley is, and the Spurs are in excellent shape to win titles until they have to replace Bowen. Devin Brown is no Bruce Bowen though, and I doubt he ever will be. The only way the team is going to get a viable replacement for Bruce when the time comes is to use their MLE.

[timvp]

This thread is a classic. MB, timvp, and Kori whining that the Spurs are not signing a 12th man for $2.5M. I thought whining about such things was GW's job. When you look at how such elite teams like Miami and Phoenix turn over half their roster, complaining about how the Spurs fill in their 12th man is just ridiculous. The Spurs have also turned over a lot of their roster in past years. Almost by definition, non-rotation slots are unstable.

:lol

Whining? It's called pointing out that it'd be wise for the Spurs to roll with more than four swingman ... especially considering that two of them will be 35 next season and one of them has an expiring contract.

So you're comfortable running four swingman and surviving the very real possibility that one could *gasp* get injured? In that scenario, that'd force a player that is currently not on the team into a spot in the rotation.

If the Spurs can fill that role with a Matt Barnes or a Theron Smith, then they'd most likely just be fine even in that worst case situation.

But whatever happened to the thinking man's Spurs fan? They've gotten cocky and think that the Spurs will win a championship in September no matter the possible twists the season may take.

[leemajors]

if "hot pursuit" of finley is sending pop to see him in chicago while other teams sent several players, maybe i misunderstood their pursuit of him.

[timvp]

2001? In 2001 the Spurs had 3 starters over 35. Right now 4/5 of the starting lineup is on the right side of 30.


True. Yet the top two bench players in 2001 were 25 and 26 years old.

No one else is slightly worried that the Spurs have the very real possibility of having Brent Barry with a cane as the only back viable backup after this season? It's always easy to say the Spurs can go out and find a young stud to groom, but where was that young stud when Antonio Daniels was guarding Kobe Bryant?

I'm not panicking or whining, I'm just pointing out a potential flaw in the Spurs' future.

I swear, Spurs fans have turned into Laker fans.

"We have Gary Payton AND Karl Malone, WTF would we need a backup power forward? Stop whining Karl Malone is >>>>>>> Robert Horry. We are going to roll to a championship this season. The future? What is that? We don't need no young backup. :lol"

--Laker fan circa September 2003

[TheWriter]

Viktor, Ian, Scola, Jav, drafts, and trades.

[Pistonfan1]

Pistons in 06 Marcus has given up on his Spurs. Joe Dumars>RC anyday of the week and twice on sunday. I have to admit I love watching people act like losing Devin will mean no more world titles. Hey that is fine with me. Now this means that when we get our title back next year I will now hear the excuse "yeah well we didnt have Devin" crap. You guys have an old team while we have a young one. Hey guys I am cool with you saying losing Devin and signing these guys means no more titles. We will get our 4th title in 2006 anyways!

[Kori Ellis]

This thread is a classic. MB, timvp, and Kori whining that the Spurs are not signing a 12th man for $2.5M. I thought whining about such things was GW's job. When you look at how such elite teams like Miami and Phoenix turn over half their roster, complaining about how the Spurs fill in their 12th man is just ridiculous. The Spurs have also turned over a lot of their roster in past years. Almost by definition, non-rotation slots are unstable.

Apparently reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. No one is whining.

I don't know what people don't see in this scenario. All we are saying is that it would have been ideal (and the Spurs think so too - thus the attempts to get a trade done) if the Spurs had been able to retain Devin.

If you are thinking only about the 2005-06 season, the Spurs are in awesome shape. If you are thinking about the future, Spurs fans are jumping the gun with their "dynasty" talk.

Next summer the swingmen will be: Bowen (35) Barry (almost 35) and Manu. They'll also have to re-sign Nazr, and they'll have no cap space. It won't be an easy summer.

I've said 10 times in this thread that I'm not "worried" about it because I know the Spurs will get it done. But you construe it as "whining". Like I said, I think the Spurs will still pick up a player now who will sit on the inactive list this season and get into the rotation next season. Hopefully they'll be able to get rid of Barry's contract next summer and then they'll be fine.

[team-work]

The argument can really last forever. Though I didn't a bit want Devin leave, I have to accept it and trust the Spurs FO anyway. Wish the controversy will not affect the chemistry of the team and sincerely hope for a prosperous season for the Spurs!

[AFE7FATMAN]

give me a break

You folks are acting like the FO is done and the roster is set in Stone.

I bet we get a 14th Guy out of Camp or a trade will happen by Christmas.

[leemajors]

yeah darko was a real steal in the draft, and letting larry brown go was a great move...

[MannyIsGod]

Marcus Bryant should realize the Spurs did not lose Devin for nothing. They lost Devin for Michael Finley.

[ploto]

The Spurs tried- even before they met with Finley- to work out a sign and trade with Devin. They tried to get him a better deal this way and also get a player in return (a true SF) but they found no takers. So, sometimes, you just let the guy go. It is true- they chose Finley over Brown. The Spurs do not see Devin as a replacement for Bowen, just as they didn't see LJIII as one either. They will continue to look for that elusive "3" and take advantage of Manu's defense to spell Bruce.

[TwoHandJam]

Like I said, I think the Spurs will still pick up a player now who will sit on the inactive list this season and get into the rotation next season. Hopefully they'll be able to get rid of Barry's contract next summer and then they'll be fine.
Bingo.

That's really all that needs to be said about this situation. A six page thread on this topic = mountain out of a mole hill.

[ploto]

He could also spend some time in the NBDL.

[froggyfroggy]

For true fans only, from [email protected]



Tom, If you haven't had a chance to send the piece to Bruce Bowen, could you please send him this version. And now that I think of it, could you please send it to the rest of the team, and anyone else you deem fit -- from Buford to Avery. I'm sure they'll all agree that Bruce deserves it. And I'm sure no one else took the time (six hours) to dramatize and chronicle his greatness in such detail. Thanks.
Jack

Spurs fans,
While all the credit is being handed out, I’d like to fill a bit of a vacuum.

There are six minutes left in the game. Tim has only one dunk and two turnovers in the quarter. We lead by three, 64-61, and neither team has scored for two minutes. I’m thinking, “We’ll be fine if we can just get the lead to six, because then they’ll probably need four possessions to beat us -- since they’ve made only one three-point shot all game.” (I later learned, when I spoke to David Robinson briefly on the phone after the game, that he’d also thought six was the key number.) “Moreover, Rasheed Wallace is the only Piston who’s scored in the period.”
Then comes the shot we’ve been waiting for. Is it Tim or Manu or Rob or Tony? No, it’s Bruce Bowen -- who hasn’t taken a single shot in the half. He hits a 3 -- and we have that six-point breathing room.
But it’s still not over. Detroit’s greatest offensive threat, Chauncey Billups, finally comes to life -- and now Detroit has two scorers. Brent Barry comes in for Bruce, immediately turns the ball over, and the lead is down to four. Bruce comes back in.
Tim is fouled with 1:02 left. If he makes both foul shots -- and we “kill clock” for two 24-second possessions -- they’ll need three baskets to send the game into overtime. But he only makes one, so they can send the game into overtime with a 3 and a 2.
Larry Brown calls time out. No coach in the league is better at running a play after a time out than he is. (After our last time out, they scored.)
Then comes the signature play of the game -- the one that best exemplifies what makes the Spurs great. Billups goes up for a 3-pointer. If he makes it, it’s a two-point game -- and they’re making that inevitable run the six-point lead was designed to protect us against.
Everyone knows you never foul a jump-shooter -- especially when he’s taking a 3; especially when the shot is being taken by a guy who gets every call; especially when you’re not known for being a shot-blocker; especially when he’s a near lock to make all three foul shots; especially when the refs know they won’t be accused of “keeping the game close” if they blow the whistle; especially when you’re playing with five fouls; especially when you’re not a super-star like Michael Jordan who gets all the calls himself.
Unless you’re Bruce Bowen -- who’s smart enough to know that only a perfect block will do. But he makes the play -- and recovers the ball.
Technically, Detroit is still in it. There’s enough time left that they don’t have to start deliberately fouling. But Bruce’s block crushed their spirit so badly that Manu can not only run 17 seconds off the clock, but he can split their defense for a game-clinching lay-up.
But that’s Bruce Bowen for you. Some players, e.g. Tayshaun Prince, are so “underrated” they become overrated. But even though Bruce is always described as underrated --and despite his getting the second most votes for Defensive Player of the Year -- he’s still underrated. And he never complains about it. Probably because he never thinks about it.
In this year’s playoffs he shut down Carmelo Anthony, Ray Allen, Shawn Marion, Rip Hamilton, and then, when it became necessary, Chauncey Billups. All this at 200 pounds -- and 34 years of age.
Last year, when Ray Allen, a personal favorite of mine, accused him of being a dirty ballplayer, I thought there must be some truth to this accusation (especially since they were close friends) -- so I started watching Bruce very carefully. The charge was completely untrue, and I no longer have any respect for Ray Allen as a person.
I’ve never seen Bruce commit a hard foul -- or a foul intended to “send a message”. I’ve never seen him commit a flagrant foul. If anything, the refs are unfairly tough on him.
He’s not a perfect coach’s dream. I’ve seen him throw a few lazy passes. But I’ve never seen him make a dumb play. So I’m willing to forgive all his offensive weaknesses -- including his poor foul shooting (which is still better than Tony Parker’s, and is basically irrelevant, since he rarely shoots any).
He plays totally within himself. He almost never turns the ball over. And he never takes a possession off.
I told David Robinson that I might have given Bruce my vote for MVP. He understood that I might have been doing so as a symbolic act, but he still said, “You’ve got a good point there.”

[Bruno]

I find you are too worried about the loss of devin. He is a great guy, good luck for him with the Jazz.

Devin is a good player not a great one. He is too short to play SF and at the SG spot we still have Manu.

For the 2005 season, Spurs could only offer him a spot on the inactive list and devin deserves 20-25 min of playtime.

For the 2006 season :

- Brent will be old, but he still can give something like 12 quality minutes a la Steve Kerr.(he is still a great shooter)

- Bowen is old and his style of play is physical but :
- He made a great season (maybe his best one), so he is not on the downside.
- He is very serious on his conditioning (have you siad iron man)
- He spent a lot of season in Europe where you have something like 35-40 games of 40 min a year . Tim plays 27000 min in nba, Bruce 17000 min.
- He will play less minutes in 2005.
Considering all these facts, bruce could play something like 20 min per games in 2006.

- Beno made a good rookie season. In 2006, he will begin his 3rd nba season. Beno played some SG with Slovenia and during the regular season. Remember he is only one inch shorter than Devin.

The rotation for the 2006 season could be something like :
PG : Tony 34, Beno 14
SG : Manu 32, Beno 10, Brent 6
SF : Bruce 20, A guy 22, Brent 6

For the missing SF, it could be :
- Finley, if his contract is one year, Spurs could give him $3M a year in 2006 without using the MLE.
- The 14th man of this season (a guy like Barnes). Spurs will probly sign a young SF to a two years minimum contract with a team option on the second year.
- A free agent signing with the MLE (Spurs will have no holes at the PG/PF/C spot the next offseason). A guy like Jumaine Jones could be the perfect cheap target.

So don't worry, be happy of the title and enjoy the title and the next season.

[DesiSpur_21]

I wouldn't say guys who are saying devin should have been re-signed are whining, but definitely they are overreacting. As Manny put it, we lost Devin for nothing - We got finley who is way better than Devin at this point.

Also, calling people who are okay with Spurs letting go Devin as Holt's nuts is uncalled for - then what do you call people who are overreacting over the whole issue? There is a high possibilty that posters here have personal acquaintance of Devin than Holt.

[wildbill2u]

We signed Finley and NVE for about what Devin would have cost if you include the luxury tax. Finley and NVE > Devin. That's what put Devin on the bubble.

If Isaiah Thomas signed a 6'5" 12th man with a questionable back for 5 million dollars, this place would be awash with posters giggling about how dumb the Knicks GM is.

Have a little faith in the FO. Haven't they taken pretty good care of the future of the Spurs by locking up our core players?

[Kori Ellis]

Bingo.

That's really all that needs to be said about this situation. A six page thread on this topic = mountain out of a mole hill.

I already said the same thing back on page one or two. But I was still accused of whining and overreacting.


I wouldn't say guys who are saying devin should have been re-signed are whining, but definitely they are overreacting. As Manny put it, we lost Devin for nothing - We got finley who is way better than Devin at this point.

Also, calling people who are okay with Spurs letting go Devin as Holt's nuts is uncalled for - then what do you call people who are overreacting over the whole issue? There is a high possibilty that posters here have personal acquaintance of Devin than Holt.

I think you are still missing the point. We only have Finley for ONE season. So people who are "overreacting" are just saying that they are worried about the future. I don't know what's wrong with admitting that.

As for the "nuts" comments -- that's ONE poster saying that. So I'm not sure why everyone else who had a slight concern on this topic is lumped into that same group of "haters".

[Streakyshooter08]

So has the one-season-contract of Finley been confirmed? I have not read anything official yet.

[Dex]

Now I'm going to have to root for the Knicks AND the Jazz on the side. :makemyday Except for when their playing the Spurs, of course.

When does the vBookie get settled, Kori?

[DesiSpur_21]

I think you are still missing the point. We only have Finley for ONE season. So people who are "overreacting" are just saying that they are worried about the future. I don't know what's wrong with admitting that.

As for the "nuts" comments -- that's ONE poster saying that. So I'm not sure why everyone else who had a slight concern on this topic is lumped into that same group of "haters".

Cool.

My point was let's not go very critical of ownership/FO for not doing 'enough' to keep Devin. Most of us here like Devin very much and I understand he has age on his side compared to our current swingmen rotation of Finely/Barry/Bowen. IMHO, Devin would've been still plan B for the spurs (with his back still a concern) even if Finley wasn't signed. I may be wrong, but it'd have been a huge risk going in with Devin as primary backup for Bowen. If not Finely, they still would have tried getting a young SF into the rotation first (either by using the money Fin got or by trading Barry) before signing Devin.

[baseline bum]

I swear, Spurs fans have turned into Laker fans.

"We have Gary Payton AND Karl Malone, WTF would we need a backup power forward? Stop whining Karl Malone is >>>>>>> Robert Horry. We are going to roll to a championship this season. The future? What is that? We don't need no young backup. :lol"

--Laker fan circa September 2003

I don't think comparing this situation to the Lakers 2003-04 signings is justified. The Lakers had absolutely no depth, and were depending on old legs to carry them from the starting lineup. We're not asking Van Exel to play 35 minutes a game, or Finley to start at our weakest position. We're talking 15-20 minutes a game for Cancun and 20-25 per for Fin probably.


No one else is slightly worried that the Spurs have the very real possibility of having Brent Barry with a cane as the only back viable backup after this season? It's always easy to say the Spurs can go out and find a young stud to groom, but where was that young stud when Antonio Daniels was guarding Kobe Bryant?

True, but NBA swingmen with Devin Brown's talent are a dime a dozen in the NBA. Let's not forget that Antonio Daniels had a playoff series versus the Lakers in 2001 like Devin did in 2004, but he wasn't the answer either.

I don't see a place for Devin when the Spurs need to save every cent they can to sign Nazr next summer. I know Devin's deal was 2 years with a team option on the second, but there's no way the Spurs could afford to keep him @ $2.7 million, leaving them only $2-$3 million below the luxury tax threshhold. They could decline the option, but then what's the point of signing him at all? He's not good enough to get into this team's rotation for 2005-06... not when it's 2-deep with borderline starters or better at every position on the floor.

The Spurs have plenty of options. In 2007 they have Horry's expiring contract to ship out after he retires like they did with Ferry to land Turkoglu. In 2006 they'll still have the rights to Luis Scola as trade-bait. If he can get a buyout next year he'll have higher trade value than Devin in a sign-and-trade.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

o one else is slightly worried that the Spurs have the very real possibility of having Brent Barry with a cane as the only back viable backup after this season? It's always easy to say the Spurs can go out and find a young stud to groom, but where was that young stud when Antonio Daniels was guarding Kobe Bryant?


As much as we all love Devin, guys with his skill set are a dime a dozen. I'd be more concerned that the Spurs would only have a guy with questionable back problems down the road.

We still got 2 Euro wings waiting in the wings, and you'll have the full MLE to work with next year.

[Kori Ellis]

When does the vBookie get settled, Kori?

When he actually signs. He hasn't had a physical yet.

[Kori Ellis]

We still got 2 Euro wings waiting in the wings, and you'll have the full MLE to work with next year.

Who is the other Euro wing besides Sanikidze?

[Dex]

When he actually signs. He hasn't had a physical yet.

10-4, roger roger :king

[Marcus Bryant]

The Spurs lost talent for nothing because ownership are cheapskates and some 'fans' here accept it like its nothing. That's disturbing. Don't we want good basketball decisions? We don't cheer the Spurs' profit margin, do we?

The organization is not perfect. Take its nuts off your chins already.

[ChumpDumper]

Getting a Groundhog Day vibe for the next five pages or so....

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Who is the other Euro wing besides Sanikidze?

My bad, was thinking there was someone else besides him for some reason.

The point still remains the same though - you can find a Devin Brown all over this league at the end of rosters, in the NBDL, etc., and the Spurs are great in cherry picking Europe.

*shrugs*

The funny thing about this thread is that for all the cheap shots Marcus took at me for "hating" on Rose, my "hate" for Malik's play doesn't even come close to Marcus crying in this thread for the Spurs to pony up over 5 million a year for their 12th man.

[MannyIsGod]

The Spurs lost talent for nothing because ownership are cheapskates and some 'fans' here accept it like its nothing. That's disturbing. Don't we want good basketball decisions? We don't cheer the Spurs' profit margin, do we?

The organization is not perfect. Take its nuts off your chins already. Put things into the proper context, Marcus. You keep hammering on and on about how they lost him for nothing but that isn't the case. If everything was equal then yes, it would have been a foolish decision but all things considered it was a very understandable decision.

They got Finley which is a better option for at least the next year. They don't have a replacement for him after that but that doesn't mean they can't resign him or bring in a player in a simillar situation.

As much as you want to be critical of them for being cheap, you can't expect them to spend 5 million dollars on a player that may not see much court time. That isn't being cheap, it is running a business intelligently.

And as for Devin being an answer, that wasn't a lock either. Devin has shown flashes, but thats all he's shown. He's not a lock to be a future star or even consitent starter in this leauge.

So quit your damn crying about them giving him up for nothing because they were cheap. You can use that line on ever free agent the Spurs have ever let walk away. I mean hell, they let Massenburg walk away for nothing. The HORRAH! Mike Wilks is gone for nothing! My god the insanity! So disturbing!

I don't think anyone here ever claimed this organization was perfect. But I challenge you to find another organization that is able to maintain a title contender year after year while being very well managed financialy.

[Marcus Bryant]

Yeah, it's a great decision, if you're a fan of the Spurs' profit margin.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, it's a great decision, if you're a fan of the Spurs' profit margin.
And its a horrible decision if you're a fan of paying the 12th man 5 million dollars to ride the pine.

But, if you're somewhere intbtween those 2 extremes, you probably see it as an understandable if undesirable decision.

[Marcus Bryant]

Considering that a bunch of other guys on the perimeter are old, under contract for one season and/or both, it was an even more horrid decision.

[MannyIsGod]

Considering that a bunch of other guys on the perimeter are old, under contract for one season and/or both, it was an even more horrid decision.
Considering there is a season and another offseason to go before that is the situation we are facing, that remains to be seen.

If Devin Brown blows up and if the Spurs don't pick up another young player then it will be a bad decision but not untill that happens. If Devin goes to Utah and is a bust, what then?

[Clandestino]

spurs really can't lose... if devin kicks ass, good for him... if he is all screwed up bc of his back or lack of playing time, then the spurs will look like geniuses again.

[dunkman]

Devin will have more chances to play in Utah, than he would have with the Spurs. Good luck to him. He contributed a lot in his time with the Spurs. I liked him, because he played great in big games and always played good defense.

[ploto]

Not to fan any flames-- but aren't some of the same people lamenting this decision not to match Devin for financial reasons, some of the same people dying to dump Rasho for financial reasons? Cause- from a basketball perspective, wouldn't it be great as a fan to have Brent and Devin and Finley and NVE-- Rasho and Nazr and Oberto and Horry?

[coopdogg3]

I can't imagine why anyone is complaining about letting Devin go. Letting him go for nothing is exactly what free agency is all about. We got NVE for nothing, we got Finley for nothing, we got Oberto for nothing, we let Devin (who would have been our 12th man) go for nothing. It would not have made sense to trade Devin before Finley made up his mind, and teams knew we had no leverage after we signed Finley. The Spurs waited the full 7 days waiting to see if anything developed for a trade, nothing did.

The Spurs can't be blamed for not trading him, as there was nobody willing to trade for him. In the end arguing that the Spurs should have spent $5 million for him to ride the pine is foolish. He would have cost the Spurs more than Bowen (a starter) and nearly every person riding the bench. How can you pay a man that much who would only get garbage minutes? The Knicks might do something like that, but that's why the Spurs win championships and the Knicks fight for a play-off spot.

The Spurs are hardly cheap-skates, the pay money to players who will produce for the team. Mostly anyways, Rash and Brent might be exceptions (arguable) and that's why they have trade rumors swirling around them. The team has been irresponsible with money in the past, and it cost the team dearly.

I liked Devin's game, but he was hardly the man to replace Bowen. Next year we may lose NVE and Finley - Brent and Bowen will be a year older, but they should still be effective. The Spurs have always managed to find promising, young, cheap players to fill in the weak points.

Here is a link to team salaries before Finley's deal took place, puts us right around #10 when Finley's deal is included, http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries.htm - we are the 3rd smallest market (give or take) but #10 (or thereabouts) in salary after the Finley deal is added. So I think it's very unfair to call Holt a cheap owner, but he has to be responsible with a small-market club. It's just that simple. In 2 years we may have more need for Devin's services and he will be a free agent. We should also have some cap room then. So I guess we'll see. I wish Devin all the luck in the world and hope he thrives in Utah, but it simply does not make any sense to sign him back in San Antonio.

coopdogg3

[spurster]

:lol

Whining? It's called pointing out that it'd be wise for the Spurs to roll with more than four swingman ... especially considering that two of them will be 35 next season and one of them has an expiring contract.

So you're comfortable running four swingman and surviving the very real possibility that one could *gasp* get injured? In that scenario, that'd force a player that is currently not on the team into a spot in the rotation.

If the Spurs can fill that role with a Matt Barnes or a Theron Smith, then they'd most likely just be fine even in that worst case situation.

But whatever happened to the thinking man's Spurs fan? They've gotten cocky and think that the Spurs will win a championship in September no matter the possible twists the season may take.
Yes, it's whining.

But if the Spurs primary weakness is their 12 man, their 5th swingman (though van Exel could fill in as a 5th, though small), life as a Spurs fan is looking really, really good. Yes, lots of things could happen (all our old players get the rheumatiz or something (though Devin's back acting up seems more likely to me)), but the Spurs will be the team to catch up with.

[timvp]

http://www.texashighways.com/images.php/roadtrips/200310-257.jpg

[Trainwreck2100]

http://www.texashighways.com/images.php/roadtrips/200310-257.jpg

?????

[timvp]

The transformation from Spurs fans to Laker fans is almost complete.

Though the Spurs are 0-for-2 in repeating and haven't even started training camp, Spurs fans act like the fourth ring is in the bag. Logical concerns are scoffed at because "we're too good".

Welcome to LA.

[Trainwreck2100]

At least we aren't Sacramento, Sacramento don't want to be Sacramento.

[coopdogg3]

Well I have to admit that refusing to pay our 12th man, and our #5 swingman at a cost of $5 million/year does not strike me as a logical concern. Especially considering that Brown has injury issues. Is over-confidence an issue? Probably for us fans, but not for the team - which is the only thing that matters. I personally don't see how signing Devin, placing the team in the luxury tax realm, does much for this teams chances in June.

But I guess to be fair, I will present what I think is a logical concern, and I'm sure no one will agree with me. The reason? I'm an idiot. (gotta love Bill Simmons). I think this team needs a tough banger at the #4 spot. Rash, Nazr, Oberto strike me as limited solely to the #5 spot. Horry is a bit of a tweener at the PF, and is not a basher. I would like a thug to throw in the mix to take some heat off of Duncan when the paint gets rough. I thought we needed that type of player in the Seattle and Detroit series. Maybe Traylor, Reggie Evans, or Songaila. Don't know how much they would cost though. Tractor Traylor should be pretty cheap (and yes, I realize there is a reason he would be cheap, and no - I don't take him failing a NJ Nets physical as meaning anything). But that's the only legitimate concern that I see, which should be absolutely dwarfed by all the positives that this team brings to the table.


coopdogg3

[Sense]

The transformation from Spurs fans to Laker fans is almost complete.

Though the Spurs are 0-for-2 in repeating and haven't even started training camp, Spurs fans act like the fourth ring is in the bag. Logical concerns are scoffed at because "we're too good".

Welcome to LA.


Don't judge everyone, or are you not a Spurs fan?

Then again, it is your opinion...one which I'm laughing at.
I can't believe you were madly in love with Devin, even though he really never proved anything to consider him as the future of the franchise, or anything of that matter.

He left, get over the fact that most people didn't like him as much as you.