Police back off in Baltimore after riots; citizens respond....

[Clipper Nation]

...with the deadliest month the city has seen in 15 years. 38 homicides and counting.

https://news.yahoo.com/baltimore-residents-fearful-amid-homicide-spike-083758282.html

Where are all the cop haters to :downspin: this shit?

[Infinite_limit]

Yup. I predicted this would eventually occur but not so soon!

[SnakeBoy]

bu but this is also the cops fault.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Posted about this the other day in the lol Baltimore thread.

More on it here, not just limited to Baltimore.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-nationwide-crime-wave-1432938425

[cantthinkofanything]

Posted about this the other day in the lol Baltimore thread.

More on it here, not just limited to Baltimore.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-nationwide-crime-wave-1432938425

Sounds like a great reason to limit guns and let the military police the country.

[TheSanityAnnex]

an overwhelming majority of cops are good cops, don't be surprised when these guys say fuck and leave the force in mass because they are afraid to do their jobs and the DOJ doesn't have their back. It'll get much worse and this administration is largely at fault. The inner cities felt discriminated against and wanted less policing and they got it. Enjoy.

[Clipper Nation]

Nothing but silence from the forum libtards, I see. But, but, the warrior cops are out of control! :cry

[boutons_deux]

an overwhelming majority of cops are good cops, don't be surprised when these guys say fuck and leave the force in mass because they are afraid to do their jobs and the DOJ doesn't have their back. It'll get much worse and this administration is largely at fault. The inner cities felt discriminated against and wanted less policing and they got it. Enjoy.

Seems like there are PLENTY of "bad" cops, see the 8 guys beating the shit out of Rodney King, and about the same number beating the shit out of that guy who escaped on horseback a couple weeks ago.

if the good cops "took care of" the bad cops, and they good know who the bad are, then they could police AND have the confidence, respect, trust of the citizenry.

And do you think the large number of endless reports and vids of "bad" cops are catching ONLY the bad cops? all the other cops are good apples?

The DoJ investigation of Ferguson and Cleveland PDs found systemic abuses, multiple years, etc, etc, not only few bad apple cops.

Albuquerque is another PD with a HUGE number of execution and absuses.

Chicago PD had black site for torture, and that wasn't only one BAD cop.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Seems like there are PLENTY of "bad" cops, see the 8 guys beating the shit out of Rodney King, and about the same number beating the shit out of that guy who escaped on horseback a couple weeks ago.

if the good cops "took care of" the bad cops, and they good know who the bad are, then they could police AND have the confidence, respect, trust of the citizenry.

And do you think the large number of endless reports and vids of "bad" cops are catching ONLY the bad cops? all the other cops are good apples?

The DoJ investigation of Ferguson and Cleveland PDs found systemic abuses, multiple years, etc, etc, not only few bad apple cops.

Albuquerque is another PD with a HUGE number of execution and absuses.

Chicago PD had black site for torture, and that wasn't only one BAD cop.
Of course there are bad cops no one is denying that. The bad cop videos make the rounds on social media. A good cop doing his/her job is boring and gets no media attention. Are you claiming the majority of cops are bad? And why ignore the OP?

[Clipper Nation]

Boutons_shill with no answer to the OP... not even the usual "VRWC, BigCop conspiracy" spin.

[boutons_deux]

Of course there are bad cops no one is denying that. The bad cop videos make the rounds on social media. A good cop doing his/her job is boring and gets no media attention. Are you claiming the majority of cops are bad? And why ignore the OP?

I'm saying the bad cops being caught are a small fraction of the total bad cops.

The good cops KNOW who are the bad cops, but do nothing.

And they all know they can, if and when they want, get away with framing, brutalizing, executing innocent people, and that their fellow cops and prosecutors will protect them, almost PERFECT immunity.

[Th'Pusher]

The inner cities felt discriminated against and wanted less policing and they got it. Enjoy.

Did the "inner cities" want less policing or were the protests for non-discriminatory policing?

You understand there is a difference between the two, right?

[Clipper Nation]

Did the "inner cities" want less policing or were the protests for non-discriminatory policing?

You understand there is a difference between the two, right?
All policing is discriminatory to libtards.

[TheSanityAnnex]

I'm saying the bad cops being caught are a small fraction of the total bad cops.

The good cops KNOW who are the bad cops, but do nothing.

And they all know they can, if and when they want, get away with framing, brutalizing, executing innocent people, and that their fellow cops and prosecutors will protect them, almost PERFECT immunity.
I asked you a direct question. Are you claiming there are more bad cops than good cops?

[Clipper Nation]

From the article:


"Our officers tell me that when officers pull up, they have 30 to 50 people surrounding them at any time," Batts said.

Batts provided more details at a City Council meeting Wednesday night, saying officers now fear getting arrested for making mistakes.

"The criminals are taking advantage of the situation in Baltimore since the unrest," Ryan wrote. "(Police) are more afraid of going to jail for doing their jobs properly than they are of getting shot on duty."

:cry "But, but, they're only against bad policing, not all policing!" :cry

[TheSanityAnnex]

Did the "inner cities" want less policing or were the protests for non-discriminatory policing?

You understand there is a difference between the two, right?
when an inner cities racial demographic is predominately black it seems tough to be non-discriminatory when the majority of crime there is committed by blacks. What you are seeing now is the police being non-discriminatory, how's that working out for the citizens?

[TheSanityAnnex]

When the DOJ and your own mayor throw you under the bus would you risk your life everyday to police a bunch of people who would cheer if you were killed?

[Th'Pusher]

when an inner cities racial demographic is predominately black it seems tough to be non-discriminatory when the majority of crime there is committed by blacks. What you are seeing now is the police being non-discriminatory, how's that working out for the citizens?
it's not discrimination to arrest a black man committing a crime.

[boutons_deux]

I asked you a direct question. Are you claiming there are more bad cops than good cops?

no, but good cops protecting bad cops make those cops bad at least by association.

[cd021]

When the DOJ and your own mayor throw you under the bus would you risk your life everyday to police a bunch of people who would cheer if you were killed?

I don't see it could be viewed that way. BPD has a history of excessive force. 100+ people were rewarded $5.7 million dollars payed out in the past four years :lol [http://www.businessinsider.com/baltimore-paid-5-million-in-4-years-for-police-brutality-lawsuits-2015-4]


One of these incidents finally blew up in their face. A guy who was illegally arrested was given a "rough ride" and had his spinal cord severed an later died.

Thats the 3rd time that a person has been paralyzed in police custody and the others won settlements against the city.

Its not an indictment against all police but against the one that clearly did some illegal shit.

The BPD can't compain about the DOJ being in their business when the department has a history of violence.

[cd021]

it's not discrimination to arrest a black man committing a crime.

it is when one that wasn't was killed in police custody. Illegal arrested and suffering a spinal cord injury and then dying. But cops are clean in that?

[cd021]

an overwhelming majority of cops are good cops, don't be surprised when these guys say fuck and leave the force in mass because they are afraid to do their jobs and the DOJ doesn't have their back. It'll get much worse and this administration is largely at fault. The inner cities felt discriminated against and wanted less policing and they got it. Enjoy.

Don't know how you arrived at "overwhelming majority. There are certainly good ones but they don't get credit for doing their job properly. But then there are the bad ones.

Cops are just people who do a very difficult job its like saying the majority of people are good. Its objective and difficult or near impossible to prove.

On the other hand we do know that there are certain departments where there are quite a few bad cops (NYPD, LAPD, Cleveland PD etc) that are costing tax payers incredible amounts of money to bail out their incompetence.

Boston-$36 M, (2005-2015)
Chicago $521 M 2004-2014
Cleveland-$8.2 M 2004-2014

LA. $101 M- (2002-2011)
Oakland-$74 (1990-2014)
New York-$348 M 2006-2011
Philadelphia $40 m (2009-2014)

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/05/29/police-misconduct-settlements_n_7423386.html

From the New york Times:

"it was not long before the dark side of this intervention emerged: Soon all black youth, not just the delinquent minority, were being profiled as criminals, all ghetto residents were being viewed and treated with disrespect and, increasingly, police tactics relied on the use of violence as a first resort.

And yet it didn’t work, at least in one important respect: Although the black homicide rate has declined substantially, it still remains catastrophic, with blacks being murdered at eight times the national rate — and, among teens, it has been rising again since 2002."

Thats a legit beef. Its not necessarily a police presence its the heavy handed, "everyone a criminal because they live here attitude" that they take issue with.

[TheSanityAnnex]

it's not discrimination to arrest a black man committing a crime.
It doesn't sound like that is the case in these places anymore and that's what I'm getting at. When cops are being surrounded by angry mobs during a routine arrest it changes things as a simple stop now could blow up into something much worse. If they're attacked and have to defend themselves it's another shitstorm protest and they've basically said fuck it not worth the hassle. It sucks for all the good citizens that actually need their help getting these guys off the street but I can see why at some point for the cops it's no longer worth it.

[unleashbaynes]

good, fuck em, and fuck cops too.

[Th'Pusher]

... and they've basically said fuck it not worth the hassle.

Then they're failing to do the job.

[pgardn]

Then they're failing to do the job.

The problem is the job description is not clear.

This board illustrates the problem. Enforcement, peace officers, on and on.
The rules of engaging the public and goals change day to day with events.

We we choose to highlight the black and white cases (no pun), When in reality many cops end up trying to solve domestic disputes among family members or individual vendettas. This is a horribly difficult job.

Boots thinks good cops sit on the sideline, like this is some anomaly. This same thing happens in so many public service jobs: teachers, fire fighters, especially doctors. It's good the pervasive corrupt, disgraceful arms of law enforcement have been exposed. It's strange that people can't see the danger in taking throwing the baby out with stinking bath water. So keep blaming the nature of the job. Cops are all wannabe dictators, teachers are all pedophiles...

This is a Bootian Syndrome, generalizing and crucifying.
Much like a Nazi.

[Clipper Nation]

Then they're failing to do the job.
Libtards like you whine when they do their job and then whine when they don't.

[Blizzardwizard]

Nobody whines when police do their job, people complain when they choke innocent black people, label it self defense and no conservatives in 'Murica bat an eyelid

[CosmicCowboy]

Libtards like you whine when they do their job and then whine when they don't.

Exactly. Proactive policing clearly reduces crime at the risk of appearing discriminatory. Smart cops now play it safe and are only reactive after the crimes are committed. "You got raped, robbed, beaten, shot? So sorry. my job is to fill out the paperwork".

[boutons_deux]

what is proactive policing? and where is the "proof"? it's racial profiling and harassment?

[Th'Pusher]

Exactly. Proactive policing clearly reduces crime at the risk of appearing discriminatory. Smart cops now play it safe and are only reactive after the crimes are committed. "You got raped, robbed, beaten, shot? So sorry. my job is to fill out the paperwork".
That's bullshit. Here's a good article detailing how "proactive policing" doesn't work and its consequences.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-baltimore-blew-up-20150526

[CosmicCowboy]

what is proactive policing? and where is the "proof"? it's racial profiling and harassment?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-new-nationwide-crime-wave-1432938425

[CosmicCowboy]

That's bullshit. Here's a good article detailing how "proactive policing" doesn't work and its consequences.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-baltimore-blew-up-20150526

LOL the paragon if journalistic objectivity

[CosmicCowboy]

The nation’s two-decades-long crime decline may be over. Gun violence in particular is spiraling upward in cities across America. In Baltimore, the most pressing question every morning is how many people were shot the previous night. Gun violence is up more than 60% compared with this time last year, according to Baltimore police, with 32 shootings over Memorial Day weekend. May has been the most violent month the city has seen in 15 years.

In Milwaukee, homicides were up 180% by May 17 over the same period the previous year. Through April, shootings in St. Louis were up 39%, robberies 43%, and homicides 25%. “Crime is the worst I’ve ever seen it,” said St. Louis Alderman Joe Vacarro at a May 7 City Hall hearing.

Murders in Atlanta were up 32% as of mid-May. Shootings in Chicago had increased 24% and homicides 17%. Shootings and other violent felonies in Los Angeles had spiked by 25%; in New York, murder was up nearly 13%, and gun violence 7%.

Those citywide statistics from law-enforcement officials mask even more startling neighborhood-level increases. Shooting incidents are up 500% in an East Harlem precinct compared with last year; in a South Central Los Angeles police division, shooting victims are up 100%.

By contrast, the first six months of 2014 continued a 20-year pattern of growing public safety. Violent crime in the first half of last year dropped 4.6% nationally and property crime was down 7.5%. Though comparable national figures for the first half of 2015 won’t be available for another year, the January through June 2014 crime decline is unlikely to be repeated.

The most plausible explanation of the current surge in lawlessness is the intense agitation against American police departments over the past nine months.

Since last summer, the airwaves have been dominated by suggestions that the police are the biggest threat facing young black males today. A handful of highly publicized deaths of unarmed black men, often following a resisted arrest—including Eric Garner in Staten Island, N.Y., in July 2014, Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo., in August 2014 and Freddie Gray in Baltimore last month—have led to riots, violent protests and attacks on the police. Murders of officers jumped 89% in 2014, to 51 from 27.

President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder, before he stepped down last month, embraced the conceit that law enforcement in black communities is infected by bias. The news media pump out a seemingly constant stream of stories about alleged police mistreatment of blacks, with the reports often buttressed by cellphone videos that rarely capture the behavior that caused an officer to use force.

Almost any police shooting of a black person, no matter how threatening the behavior that provoked the shooting, now provokes angry protests, like those that followed the death of Vonderrit Myers in St. Louis last October. The 18-year-old Myers, awaiting trial on gun and resisting-arrest charges, had fired three shots at an officer at close range. Arrests in black communities are even more fraught than usual, with hostile, jeering crowds pressing in on officers and spreading lies about the encounter.

Acquittals of police officers for the use of deadly force against black suspects are now automatically presented as a miscarriage of justice. Proposals aimed at producing more cop convictions abound, but New York state seems especially enthusiastic about the idea.

The state’s attorney general, Eric Schneiderman, wants to create a special state prosecutor dedicated solely to prosecuting cops who use lethal force. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo would appoint an independent monitor whenever a grand jury fails to indict an officer for homicide and there are “doubts” about the fairness of the proceeding (read: in every instance of a non-indictment); the governor could then turn over the case to a special prosecutor for a second grand jury proceeding.

This incessant drumbeat against the police has resulted in what St. Louis police chief Sam Dotson last November called the “Ferguson effect.” Cops are disengaging from discretionary enforcement activity and the “criminal element is feeling empowered,” Mr. Dotson reported. Arrests in St. Louis city and county by that point had dropped a third since the shooting of Michael Brown in August. Not surprisingly, homicides in the city surged 47% by early November and robberies in the county were up 82%.

Similar “Ferguson effects” are happening across the country as officers scale back on proactive policing under the onslaught of anti-cop rhetoric. Arrests in Baltimore were down 56% in May compared with 2014.

“Any cop who uses his gun now has to worry about being indicted and losing his job and family,” a New York City officer tells me. “Everything has the potential to be recorded. A lot of cops feel that the climate for the next couple of years is going to be nonstop protests.”

Police officers now second-guess themselves about the use of force. “Officers are trying to invent techniques on the spot for taking down resistant suspects that don’t look as bad as the techniques taught in the academy,” says Jim Dudley, who recently retired as deputy police chief in San Francisco. Officers complain that civilians don’t understand how hard it is to control someone resisting arrest.

A New York City cop tells me that he was amazed to hear people scoffing that Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson, who killed Michael Brown, only looked a “little red” after Brown assaulted him and tried to grab his weapon: “Does an officer need to be unconscious before he can use force? If someone is willing to fight you, he’s also willing to take your gun and shoot you. You can’t lose a fight with a guy who has already put his hands on you because if you do, you will likely end up dead.”

Milwaukee Police Chief Edward A. Flynn, discussing hostility toward the police, told me in an interview on Friday: “I’ve never seen anything like it. I’m guessing it will take five years to recover.”

Even if officer morale were to miraculously rebound, policies are being put into place that will make it harder to keep crime down in the future. Those initiatives reflect the belief that any criminal-justice action that has a disparate impact on blacks is racially motivated.

In New York, pedestrian stops—when the police question and sometimes frisk individuals engaged in suspicious behavior—have dropped nearly 95% from their 2011 high, thanks to litigation charging that the NYPD’s stop, question and frisk practices were racially biased. A judge agreed, and New York Mayor Bill de Blasio, upon taking office last year, did too, embracing the resulting judicial monitoring of the police department. It is no surprise that shootings are up in the city.

Politicians and activists in New York and other cities have now taken aim at “broken windows” policing. This police strategy has shown remarkable success over the past two decades by targeting low-level public-order offenses, reducing the air of lawlessness in rough neighborhoods and getting criminals off the streets before they commit bigger crimes. Opponents of broken-windows policing somehow fail to notice that law-abiding residents of poor communities are among the strongest advocates for enforcing laws against public drinking, trespassing, drug sales and drug use, among other public-order laws.

As attorney general, Eric Holder pressed the cause of ending “mass incarceration” on racial grounds; elected officials across the political spectrum have jumped on board. A 2014 California voter initiative has retroactively downgraded a range of property and drug felonies to misdemeanors, including forcible theft of guns, purses and laptops. More than 3,000 felons have already been released from California prisons, according to the Association of Deputy District Attorneys in Los Angeles County. Burglary, larceny and car theft have surged in the county, the association reports.

“There are no real consequences for committing property crimes anymore,” Los Angeles Police Lt. Armando Munoz told Downtown News earlier this month, “and the criminals know this.” The Milwaukee district attorney, John Chisholm, is diverting many property and drug criminals to rehabilitation programs to reduce the number of blacks in Wisconsin prisons; critics see the rise in Milwaukee crime as one result.

If these decriminalization and deincarceration policies backfire, the people most harmed will be their supposed beneficiaries: blacks, since they are disproportionately victimized by crime. The black death-by-homicide rate is six times higher than that of whites and Hispanics combined. The killers of those black homicide victims are overwhelmingly other black civilians, not the police. The police could end all use of lethal force tomorrow and it would have at most a negligible impact on the black death rate. In any case, the strongest predictor of whether a police officer uses force is whether a suspect resists arrest, not the suspect’s race.

Contrary to the claims of the “black lives matter” movement, no government policy in the past quarter century has done more for urban reclamation than proactive policing. Data-driven enforcement, in conjunction with stricter penalties for criminals and “broken windows” policing, has saved thousands of black lives, brought lawful commerce and jobs to once drug-infested neighborhoods and allowed millions to go about their daily lives without fear.

To be sure, police officers need to treat everyone they encounter with courtesy and respect. Any fatal police shooting of an innocent person is a horrifying tragedy that police training must work incessantly to prevent. But unless the demonization of law enforcement ends, the liberating gains in urban safety over the past 20 years will be lost.

[Clipper Nation]

That's bullshit. Here's a good article detailing how "proactive policing" doesn't work and its consequences.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-baltimore-blew-up-20150526
No Rolling Stone article is a "good" article.

[Th'Pusher]

LOL the paragon if journalistic objectivity

You mean like the opinion page of the wsj? :rolleyes

[Th'Pusher]

No Rolling Stone article is a "good" article.

Did you read it?

[Blizzardwizard]

No Rolling Stone article is a "good" article.

Better than Fox News.

[CosmicCowboy]

Did you read it?

Yes

[CosmicCowboy]

You mean like the opinion page of the wsj? :rolleyes

At least they admit it's opinion, unlike the RS article which only interviewed aggrieved blacks and couldn't offer any explanation why crime dropped under proactive policing policies and called it 'mysterious".

[Th'Pusher]

At least they admit it's opinion, unlike the RS article which only interviewed aggrieved blacks

This is not an accurate statement.


and couldn't offer any explanation why crime dropped under proactive policing policies and called it 'mysterious".

and neither is this.

Bravo CC.

[boutons_deux]

crime has been dropping nationwide for many years, and nobody really knows why.

crime was seen as caused by poverty, but obviously poverty and near-poverty has been increasing dramatically, while crime is equally down dramatically.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lead-crime_hypothesis

[TheSanityAnnex]

Then they're failing to do the job.
I agree with you here but I don't blame them (the good cops) when their own mayors and the DOJ refuse to support them. Put yourself in their shoes, would you risk your life anymore knowing the current climate?

[TheSanityAnnex]

You mean like the opinion page of the wsj? :rolleyes
The statistics in that are article are not opinion and make it pretty hard to argue against the successes of proactive policing. I haven't had time to read your article yet but I will get around to it later to read the counter.

[TheSanityAnnex]

what is proactive policing? and where is the "proof"? it's racial profiling and harassment?
How do you racially profile an area that is all the same race?

[ChumpDumper]

“Any cop who uses his gun now has to worry about being indicted and losing his job and family,” a New York City officer tells me. “Everything has the potential to be recorded. A lot of cops feel that the climate for the next couple of years is going to be nonstop protests.”
any cop who uses his gun should ALWAYS worry about being indicted and losing his job.

Everything should be recorded.

You have a license to kill. If you can't handle scrutiny, do something else.

[Clipper Nation]

Better than Fox News.
After the fake rape scandal Rolling Stone just got caught making up, pretty much everyone has better journalistic integrity than they do.

[SupremeGuy]

But but warrior cops are out of control :cry

[TheSanityAnnex]

any cop who uses his gun should ALWAYS worry about being indicted and losing his job.

Everything should be recorded.

You have a license to kill. If you can't handle scrutiny, so something else.
Yeah that was s stupid statement for him to make.

[cd021]

Exactly. Proactive policing clearly reduces crime at the risk of appearing discriminatory. Smart cops now play it safe and are only reactive after the crimes are committed. "You got raped, robbed, beaten, shot? So sorry. my job is to fill out the paperwork".

When you suspect someone because they are in the same age and race as many other offenders that's discriminatory. When they go into bad neighborhoods, they are clearing out some of the criminals and alienating the law abiding citizens at the same time.

The bad cops are doing more damage if anything. Smart cops should be afraid because every citizen in those neighborhoods assume they are bad as well.

[cd021]

I agree with you here but I don't blame them (the good cops) when their own mayors and the DOJ refuse to support them. Put yourself in their shoes, would you risk your life anymore knowing the current climate?

Who caused the current climate in Baltimore? The Cops did. They have a long history of excessive force against its citizens. One of those incidents finally blows up and its the citizens fault? That illogical.

[TheSanityAnnex]

Who caused the current climate in Baltimore? The Cops did. They have a long history of excessive force against its citizens. One of those incidents finally blows up and its the citizens fault? That illogical.
Never specified Baltimore these are Nation wide rises in crime. The Ferguson effect has cops afraid to do their job. You think it's okay for a mob of 50 citizens to harass/spit on/throw objects/threaten an officer during a routine stop? And you then expect that same officer to give a fuck and protect these same people?

[cd021]

Never specified Baltimore these are Nation wide rises in crime. The Ferguson effect has cops afraid to do their job. You think it's okay for a mob of 50 citizens to harass/spit on/throw objects/threaten an officer during a routine stop? And you then expect that same officer to give a fuck and protect these same people?

Didn't say all of that. Cops have a tough gig as is, but bad cops make life worse for the good ones. These protests are boiling point over years of being harassed by the police. The Mike Brown shooting was the boiling point. Whether or not people think Brown was murdered or not, they were justified in protesting.

They (some) weren't justified in rioting, looting and attacking police. It did bring a national spotlight to the racially biased PD that forced several officers to resign. That wouldn't of happened and no one would believe the stories about police misconduct in that city.

As for Baltimore, again blaming the citizens for their response seems like deflecting. Did some go waaay over board, yes. Again, the police caused this mess, they can't cry victim when there is blow back and extra scrutiny on the PD.

The citizens already don't believe the officers are there to protect them. Based on all of the complaints (317 in the past four years) its not like they are entirely wrong. Good cops are having all of these problems because the bad ones are alienating the communities they police. Citizens harassing the good cops isn't making things better but its not like the relationship was perfect to begin with.


"Baltimore City Council president Bernard C. Young agrees that the brutality has fostered severe mistrust between the police and the community. Residents fear the police more than they fear the drug dealers on the corner," Young told The Sun. These officers taint the whole department when they create these kinds of issues for the city," he added. "I'm tired of the lawsuits that cost the city millions of dollars by some of these police officers."

http://www.businessinsider.com/baltimore-paid-5-million-in-4-years-for-police-brutality-lawsuits-2015-4

[Clipper Nation]

At least 55 people, the highest pace since the early 1970s, have been killed in Baltimore since May 1, when the state’s attorney for the city, Marilyn J. Mosby, announced the criminal charges against the officers. Victims of shootings have included people involved in criminal activity and young children who were simply in the wrong place.


A 9-year-old boy was shot in the leg over the Memorial Day weekend. Another boy, Kester Browne, 7, a Chinese-language student at an international school, was fatally shot along with his mother, Jennifer Jeffrey-Browne, 31. They were two of the city’s 42 homicide victims in May.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/13/us/after-freddie-gray-death-west-baltimores-police-presence-drops-and-murders-soar.html

:cry Warrior cops are out of control :cry

[Clipper Nation]

Danielle Wilder said she has moved from her Baltimore home but isn't telling anyone — even family members — where she lives now.

"The next thing, one of us will be dead. We don't know. We have moved, and I have not given my address to family members. We just don't know," she said.

Wilder lost her sister, Jennifer Jeffrey-Browne, 31, and nephew, 7-year-old Kester "Tony" Browne, last month when the mother and son were found shot to death in their Southwest Baltimore home.

The Brownes are two of the city's 144 homicide victims in the first six months of the year, a 48 percent increase over last year. Much of the surge in violence has come in the aftermath of the April 19 death of Freddie Gray (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/), which touched off protests, rioting, looting and arson in the city.

More than half of this year's killings — 74 — have occurred in the past two months.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-6-month-homicide-numbers-20150630-story.html

:cry "But, but, the warrior cops are out of control! We can police ourselves!" :cry

[Infinite_limit]

Danielle Wilder said she has moved from her Baltimore home but isn't telling anyone — even family members — where she lives now.

"The next thing, one of us will be dead. We don't know. We have moved, and I have not given my address to family members. We just don't know," she said.

Wilder lost her sister, Jennifer Jeffrey-Browne, 31, and nephew, 7-year-old Kester "Tony" Browne, last month when the mother and son were found shot to death in their Southwest Baltimore home.

The Brownes are two of the city's 144 homicide victims in the first six months of the year, a 48 percent increase over last year. Much of the surge in violence has come in the aftermath of the April 19 death of Freddie Gray (http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/freddie-gray/), which touched off protests, rioting, looting and arson in the city.

More than half of this year's killings — 74 — have occurred in the past two months.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-ci-6-month-homicide-numbers-20150630-story.html

:cry "But, but, the warrior cops are out of control! We can police ourselves!" :cry
:lol

This scenario will play out all over American cities in the next 25 years

[admiralsnackbar]

WTF is with the :lol ? People died, dick.

[Infinite_limit]

WTF is with the :lol ? People died, dick.
Sub-humans stopped breathing our air and eating our resources

[admiralsnackbar]

Sub-humans stopped breathing our air and eating our resources But you're fine with using a "sub-human's" bandwidth? Get a job and get your own board, parasite.

[Infinite_limit]

But you're fine with using a "sub-human's" bandwidth? Get a job and get your own board, parasite.
But why so mad?

[admiralsnackbar]

But why so mad? C'mon now... your syntax suggests you even steal trolling techniques from black Americans.

[LnGrrrR]

Snackbar, I don't really think it's worth the effort responding to him. His trolling tactics aren't that good; you're better than that.

[admiralsnackbar]

Snackbar, I don't really think it's worth the effort responding to him. His trolling tactics aren't that good; you're better than that. Fair enough. I see you're a family man now, btw -- congrats, sir!

[LnGrrrR]

lol been one for about five years... hence why I don't post as often :D I'm overseas right now though, and after five months or so of 72 hours per week, things are finally slow enough to have some down time.

[admiralsnackbar]

lol been one for about five years... hence why I don't post as often :D I'm overseas right now though, and after five months or so of 72 hours per week, things are finally slow enough to have some down time. 5 years?!?! Oops. Well I'll probably fade away over the next few weeks as the roster takes shape, but come home safe, chief! Hope you're out of harm's way, at least? A nice respite on Johnston Island or something?

[LnGrrrR]

lol well, thought I was out of harm's way until that Kuwaiti bombing a few days ago... but honestly, no, it's not too bad. Not a high threat level, that I'm aware of at least.

[admiralsnackbar]

lol well, thought I was out of harm's way until that Kuwaiti bombing a few days ago... but honestly, no, it's not too bad. Not a high threat level, that I'm aware of at least. Godspeed, brother.

[LnGrrrR]

Almost done with my half a year... :D Will be good to see the family again.

[Clipper Nation]

BALTIMORE (AP) — Baltimore reached a grim milestone on Friday, three months after riots erupted in response to the death of Freddie Gray in police custody: With 45 homicides in July, the city has seen more bloodshed in a single month than it has in 43 years.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/60352506f481415c8edf3fc35b6f8103/baltimore-killings-soar-level-unseen-43-years

:cry "Warrior cops are out of control!" :cry

[Clipper Nation]

Baltimore has become the second deadliest city in America (after St. Louis) with homicides surpassing those of Detroit, the longtime poster child for urban violence.

During the first seven months of 2015, Detroit police reported 163 slayings. That compares to 189 killings recorded through July in Baltimore.

With 10% fewer residents than Detroit, Baltimore’s current homicide rate (deaths per 100,000 people) is running about 26% above that of the Motor City.

https://www.baltimorebrew.com/2015/08/07/baltimore-surges-past-detroit-in-number-of-homicides-in-2015/

:cry Warrior cops are out of control! :cry

[Clipper Nation]

Baltimore's murder rate is the highest per capita in the city's history -- and the past few days have been bloody, reports CBS Baltimore. (http://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2015/12/29/baltimores-murder-rate-continues-to-grow-in-record-breaking-year/)

Baltimore's 342nd murder was a stabbing on the east side. Number 341 was a shooting; a man was shot over and over again on the west side. Those murders followed the arrest of an 18-year-old on a wild shootout on North Avenue, where police say he shot two girls -- just 11 and 12 years old.

Twenty-three of this year's victims are children.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/bloody-end-of-2015-sees-baltimores-murder-rate-reach-all-time-high/

:cry Warrior cops are out of control! :cry

[Winehole23]

Baltimore is an outlier. Cherry pick much?

[DPG21920]

Baltimore is an outlier. Cherry pick much?

This seems so over-complicated to me in general:

1) How many police killings are there in a year (I know the FBI tracking numbers aren't considered gospel)?:

2) Of that number, how many are minoriries vs whites?

3) How many murders are there a year by non-cops?

4) Of that number, how many are minorities vs whites?

5) Of that number, how many are same race murders vs racially motivated murders?


It may just be me showing my ignorance on a very complex topic. I definitely get the central issue here is that cops are in a position of authority and that definitely makes it much, much worse. We expect "people" to commit crimes, but not cops. However, when you answer the questions above, it seems like starting with the real problem will likely be the best use of time/effort.

Maybe if the thing that is truly killing record numbers of minoriries is fixed, then the movement will gain more steam to correct the systemic issue within the small amount of police officers that do wrong.

Then you can focus on the 1% of stuff that is worse because of the situation.

[cd021]

This seems so over-complicated to me in general:

1) How many police killings are there in a year (I know the FBI tracking numbers aren't considered gospel)?:

2) Of that number, how many are minoriries vs whites?

3) How many murders are there a year by non-cops?

4) Of that number, how many are minorities vs whites?

5) Of that number, how many are same race murders vs racially motivated murders?


It may just be me showing my ignorance on a very complex topic. I definitely get the central issue here is that cops are in a position of authority and that definitely makes it much, much worse. We expect "people" to commit crimes, but not cops. However, when you answer the questions above, it seems like starting with the real problem will likely be the best use of time/effort.

Maybe if the thing that is truly killing record numbers of minoriries is fixed, then the movement will gain more steam to correct the systemic issue within the small amount of police officers that do wrong.

Then you can focus on the 1% of stuff that is worse because of the situation.

I can't answer all of those questions but:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

According to this link 1130 people have been killed by police. 34% of the unarmed killings (220 Total unarmed killings) have been black. They make up only 12% of the population. 45% of unarmed people killed were white (53% of the overall population). Overall 50% of the unarmed people killed were black or Hispanic despite making up about 1//3 of the population.


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/29/461402091/number-of-police-officers-killed-by-gunfire-fell-14-percent-in-2015-study-says

Police killed in duty is down 14% in 2015

[DPG21920]

I can't answer all of those questions but:

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database

According to this link 1130 people have been killed by police. 34% of the unarmed killings (220 Total unarmed killings) have been black. They make up only 12% of the population. 45% of unarmed people killed were white (53% of the overall population). Overall 50% of the unarmed people killed were black or Hispanic despite making up about 1//3 of the population.


http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2015/12/29/461402091/number-of-police-officers-killed-by-gunfire-fell-14-percent-in-2015-study-says

Police killed in duty is down 14% in 2015

So about 1100 people (which, all of them aren't controversial) & almost 50% are white. Yes, when viewed as a percentage, it looks bad, but half of the people police kill are white - more than any other.

But I wonder how many non-police murders there are in the US? It has to be like 20,000 a year (not sure and haven't seen any data, just guessing). Of those, I remember seeing multiple statistics that it's dominated by the same races killing each other, not other races.

So my point was, yes, having 300 black people a year killed by cops is alarming. But of those ~300, how many were truly questionable killings? Even if it's half (which I hope not, but I wouldn't be surprised), that's 150 black people killed by cops. It's pretty disgusting given a cops status as protector.

But when compared to murders by regular people? Black on Black? You are likely talking 5,000+ with non-black on black killings being a very small percentage (last numbers I saw).

So how is that not the bigger focus? Anyone dying for any reason is terrible and it's especially terrible when it comes from someone who's entrusted to serve and protect. I get that. But it seems to be more of a political issue vs people really up in arms about the fact black men (in particular young black men) are being killed off in record numbers.

How is that not the main focus? Start working towards fixing that number and then you take away not only the real threat, but any ammo anyone has when they can point to those numbers and lack of protests vs what cops do.

[cd021]

So about 1100 people (which, all of them aren't controversial) & almost 50% are white. Yes, when viewed as a percentage, it looks bad, but half of the people police kill are white - more than any other.

But I wonder how many non-police murders there are in the US? It has to be like 20,000 a year (not sure and haven't seen any data, just guessing). Of those, I remember seeing multiple statistics that it's dominated by the same races killing each other, not other races.

So my point was, yes, having 300 black people a year killed by cops is alarming. But of those ~300, how many were truly questionable killings? Even if it's half (which I hope not, but I wouldn't be surprised), that's 150 black people killed by cops. It's pretty disgusting given a cops status as protector.

But when compared to murders by regular people? Black on Black? You are likely talking 5,000+ with non-black on black killings being a very small percentage (last numbers I saw).

So how is that not the bigger focus? Anyone dying for any reason is terrible and it's especially terrible when it comes from someone who's entrusted to serve and protect. I get that. But it seems to be more of a political issue vs people really up in arms about the fact black men (in particular young black men) are being killed off in record numbers.

How is that not the main focus? Start working towards fixing that number and then you take away not only the real threat, but any ammo anyone has when they can point to those numbers and lack of protests vs what cops do.

Black on black crime has, long since,been a misnomer. Hispanics and Whites both commit at least 75% of their crimes against members of their own race. Its been proven that crime is ,generally, committed close to where the perpetrator lives (most people aren't traveling 100 miles to stick someone up). Blacks are much more likely to live closer to each other (think, inner cities or "the ghetto") therefore they commit the majority of their crimes against each other.

White supremacists have used it for years to attempt to discredit black movements (civil rights or BLM) Trump actually retweeted fake black on black stats that were originally tweeted by a neo nazi group.

That being said,people ignore the thousands of activists who risk their lives to try and make a difference in their crime ridden communities. People care, quite a bit, they don't want their kids being killed.

I'm not sure you understand the levels of mistrust by blacks and Hispanic towards police. Literally, for decades, Police have been tasked with enforcing laws such as Jim Crow. Often they used harsh tactics (like high powered fire hoses, and sicking police dogs on innocent people or using batons to beat blacks).

The police self police themselves and seldom face criminal charges for criminal activities. For example, a cop ordered a man to get on the ground . He complied and the cops kicks him in the face, breaking the mans jaw. There was dashboard footage of the assault but the cop faced no charges and kept his job.

Tamir Rice, the kid in Cleveland who was playing in the park with a toy gun was killed by a cop. He claimed he warned the boy 4 times to drop the gun but eyes witnesses, video surveillance and three different experts proved that he was lying . He shot the kid less than two seconds after arriving. He didn't even go to trial and kept his job.

Jonathan Ferell got into a near fatal car accident (He flipped his car over). He went looking for help, by knocking on a door. A woman assumed he was a criminal and called the police. The cops arrived and shot the unarmed man 10 times. He cop walked after a mistrial. The police department agreed to pay the killer $180,000 in back pay and agreed not to retry him.

This is fairly common place, interactions between blacks and the police. Keep in mind those above numbers don't include. Toy guns, rocks, or small knives. Many of those situations could have been resolved with a taser or non lethal weapons.

The McDonald shooting, fits that description. Cops actually requested a taser but the cop decided shoot him twice. After the kid lay bleeding to death on the ground, the cop continued to 14 times. The police there, then lied in police reports and their superiors covered
up the cover up. By attempting to block the dash board release and deleting video surveillance from Burger king.

Protesting the police doesn't mean that blacks don't care about "black on black crime" they care about both. The police is supposed to help the issues in the black communities by helping to reduce crime, instead, they treat every people there as if they are criminals and often react in heavy handed policing.

[boutons_deux]

red herrings and LIEs from the racist conservatives:

blacks don't care about black-on-black crime.

black-on-black and black-on-police crime EXCUSES the police criminally brutalizing, killing blacks and justifies conservatives trashing BlackLivesMatter.

[boutons_deux]

Ties that bind: How district attorneys cleared killer cops in more than 200 cases in 2015

The case was one of 217 this year where a police officer who killed someone was cleared of wrongdoing in a process led by a prosecutor who typically works alongside the officer’s department. The total represented 85% of all killings by police that were ruled justified in 2015, according to a Guardian analysis. This week, the police officer who killed 12-year-old Tamir Rice last year in Cleveland, Ohio, was cleared in the same (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/28/tamir-rice-shooting-no-charges-cleveland-officer-timothy-loehmann)way (http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/dec/28/tamir-rice-shooting-no-charges-cleveland-officer-timothy-loehmann).

Criminologists, civil liberties activists and lawmakers said the arrangements created serious conflicts of interest at the heart of the criminal justice system’s response to killings by police.

“Prosecutors work with police day in, day out, and typically they’re reluctant to criticise them or investigate them,” said Prof Samuel Walker of the University of Nebraska.

DescribingLugod’s case as a cause for concern, Walker said: “A major change in our standard legal practice, and the structure of our criminal justice system, is required.”
In about one in three cases that were ruled justified, including Lugod’s, the criminal inquiry work was done by the officer’s own police department, meaning the evidence used to decide if an officer should be prosecuted was prepared by the officer’s coworkers.

Only 12.5% of killings by police that were ruled justified in 2015 were handled completely independently.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/ties-that-bind-how-district-attorneys-cleared-killer-cops-in-more-than-200-cases-in-2015/

prosecutors, DA are EFFECTIVELY colleagues-in-crime of the police.

[boutons_deux]

Here's Breitbart on cue deflecting from police brutalizing, murdering blacks, and implicitly ridiculing BLM

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/12/28/spike-lee-black-lives-matter-wasnt-cop-executed-9-year-old-tyshawn-lee/

[DPG21920]

Black on black crime has, long since,been a misnomer. Hispanics and Whites both commit at least 75% of their crimes against members of their own race. Its been proven that crime is ,generally, committed close to where the perpetrator lives (most people aren't traveling 100 miles to stick someone up). Blacks are much more likely to live closer to each other (think, inner cities or "the ghetto") therefore they commit the majority of their crimes against each other.

White supremacists have used it for years to attempt to discredit black movements (civil rights or BLM) Trump actually retweeted fake black on black stats that were originally tweeted by a neo nazi group.

That being said,people ignore the thousands of activists who risk their lives to try and make a difference in their crime ridden communities. People care, quite a bit, they don't want their kids being killed.

I'm not sure you understand the levels of mistrust by blacks and Hispanic towards police. Literally, for decades, Police have been tasked with enforcing laws such as Jim Crow. Often they used harsh tactics (like high powered fire hoses, and sicking police dogs on innocent people or using batons to beat blacks).

The police self police themselves and seldom face criminal charges for criminal activities. For example, a cop ordered a man to get on the ground . He complied and the cops kicks him in the face, breaking the mans jaw. There was dashboard footage of the assault but the cop faced no charges and kept his job.

Tamir Rice, the kid in Cleveland who was playing in the park with a toy gun was killed by a cop. He claimed he warned the boy 4 times to drop the gun but eyes witnesses, video surveillance and three different experts proved that he was lying . He shot the kid less than two seconds after arriving. He didn't even go to trial and kept his job.

Jonathan Ferell got into a near fatal car accident (He flipped his car over). He went looking for help, by knocking on a door. A woman assumed he was a criminal and called the police. The cops arrived and shot the unarmed man 10 times. He cop walked after a mistrial. The police department agreed to pay the killer $180,000 in back pay and agreed not to retry him.

This is fairly common place, interactions between blacks and the police. Keep in mind those above numbers don't include. Toy guns, rocks, or small knives. Many of those situations could have been resolved with a taser or non lethal weapons.

The McDonald shooting, fits that description. Cops actually requested a taser but the cop decided shoot him twice. After the kid lay bleeding to death on the ground, the cop continued to 14 times. The police there, then lied in police reports and their superiors covered
up the cover up. By attempting to block the dash board release and deleting video surveillance from Burger king.

Protesting the police doesn't mean that blacks don't care about "black on black crime" they care about both. The police is supposed to help the issues in the black communities by helping to reduce crime, instead, they treat every people there as if they are criminals and often react in heavy handed policing.

All of that makes perfect sense. I just feel that the police killings, which probably number about 150 a year when you look at the ones that are truly questionable, get so much press. Rightfully so since again, cops should be in a position to protect and this should not be happening at all.

But when compared to the number of crimes committed by non-cops? Those numbers are truly staggering, numbering in the many-thousands. To me, that is the bigger issue because of the numbers. They are really two separate issues in my book, but when something harming 150 is getting so much play vs something harming 5000?

I get there are people doing things about the 5000 as well, but it doesn't seem to be treated with the same ferocity that cops aren't treated with (and perhaps it's solely because of the distrust and abuse of power angle). Maybe it's also easier to solve the cop issue and get attention so people really focus there.

But I percentage or not, I was still absolutely shocked to see that it was white people who are killed more by cops. I guess what bothers me is that you don't see the protesters up in arms about cop killings. It's about cops killing black people. To me, if you are for a cause, be for it all. Not just for your own. Sure when you look at % of population it stands to reason that whites would have higher numbers, but when you are talking about small numbers (not trying to be callous at all), it can skew percentages. The fact is whites by far are killed more than any other person by cops. It's not something where you are just seeing all black people killed and no whites. Cops are killing more whites than anyone and total numbers of questionable killings probably equal 500 (which is a ton, again, not marginalizing) compared to the 20,000 murders by regular people.

Yes, there are bad cops. And yes, cops abusing power goes far beyond normal murder, especially with the ridiculous "blue shield". However, one number stand out much more to me as a truly massive problem and that is the number of murders by other people.

[boutons_deux]

"It's about cops killing black people. To me, if you are for a cause, be for it all. Not just for your own. "

Maybe when white people start protesting about cops killing blacks, then maybe BLM will protest cops killing whites.

Law enforcement just doing for 150+ years the job the whites created them to do, oppress black people.

[DPG21920]

Here's Breitbart on cue deflecting from police brutalizing, murdering blacks, and implicitly ridiculing BLM

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2015/12/28/spike-lee-black-lives-matter-wasnt-cop-executed-9-year-old-tyshawn-lee/

I think Spike Lee has a valid point. These same protesters of cops (including photos of the different gang members coming together) rings hollow when those rival gang members were out there killing each other with absolutely no problem. And doing it in far more shocking numbers than police killings.

His point is similar to mine: All murder is terrible. Taking a life is terrible. All being equal, cops taking lives is worse because of their authority and duty to protect, but it's not equal right now. It's not anywhere close to equal. Even if you count every police death (which all aren't questionable killings) you are talking 300 killings compared to around 5,000.

One does not excuse the other. Like Spike said, even though there are activist, you see so much more fire when it comes to protesting the cops than you do for gang members killing each other in shockingly alarming numbers.

[DPG21920]

"It's about cops killing black people. To me, if you are for a cause, be for it all. Not just for your own. "

Maybe when white people start protesting about cops killing blacks, then maybe BLM will protest cops killing whites.

Law enforcement just doing for 150+ years the job the whites created them to do, oppress black people.




I see more white people protesting these cop killings of black people than I do black people talking about the 500 whites being killed by cops (the most of any color).

[boutons_deux]

I think Spike Lee has a valid point.

of course Spike has a perfectly valid point, but since when does fucking Breitbart or any rigthwingnut hate media give the tiniest fuck about dead blacks?

Only when they can use the black-on-black killings to deflect from THEIR police killing blacks.

[cd021]

All of that makes perfect sense. I just feel that the police killings, which probably number about 150 a year when you look at the ones that are truly questionable, get so much press. Rightfully so since again, cops should be in a position to protect and this should not be happening at all.

But when compared to the number of crimes committed by non-cops? Those numbers are truly staggering, numbering in the many-thousands. To me, that is the bigger issue because of the numbers. They are really two separate issues in my book, but when something harming 150 is getting so much play vs something harming 5000?

I get there are people doing things about the 5000 as well, but it doesn't seem to be treated with the same ferocity that cops aren't treated with (and perhaps it's solely because of the distrust and abuse of power angle). Maybe it's also easier to solve the cop issue and get attention so people really focus there.

But I percentage or not, I was still absolutely shocked to see that it was white people who are killed more by cops. I guess what bothers me is that you don't see the protesters up in arms about cop killings. It's about cops killing black people. To me, if you are for a cause, be for it all. Not just for your own. Sure when you look at % of population it stands to reason that whites would have higher numbers, but when you are talking about small numbers (not trying to be callous at all), it can skew percentages. The fact is whites by far are killed more than any other person by cops. It's not something where you are just seeing all black people killed and no whites. Cops are killing more whites than anyone and total numbers of questionable killings probably equal 500 (which is a ton, again, not marginalizing) compared to the 20,000 murders by regular people.

Yes, there are bad cops. And yes, cops abusing power goes far beyond normal murder, especially with the ridiculous "blue shield". However, one number stand out much more to me as a truly massive problem and that is the number of murders by other people.

I disagree about the "it doesn't seem to be treated with the same ferocity" statement especially. People, literally risk there live to make a difference in the inner cites. People have been killed for attempting to stop or slow down gang or criminal violence in the inner cities. That statement implies that blacks don't care as much about it. They do but it doesn't get as much cover from national news outlets.

Media covers topics that appeal to the broadest segments of population. Covering the escalating violence in the inner cities, can be used to form a narrative. If you've seen the movie "Nightcrawler" it touches on some of that. They don't tend to focus so much on community activists who are trying to make a difference.

Fighting inner city crime and police brutality isn't an either or scenario. Some blacks can focus on police reform and others can focus on "black on black crime" (a misnomer, of course)

To me, Police are supposed to be a part of the solution but further the problem. Blacks adopted "stop snitching" because they are wary of cops. They refuse to talk to them because of decades of mistrust.

They can and have killed innocent blacks and Hispanics without, much if any, repercussions. The cop who choked Eric Garner to death, is still employed by the city. Meanwhile, the taxpayers were stuck with a $5 million dollar bill as a result of a civil suit aimed at the NYPD.

As for the crime committed by non cops point. They are two separate issues but blacks asking for fair treatment and prosecution for cops committing criminal acts doesn't stop other blacks from trying to curb gang violence.

[cd021]

of course Spike has a perfectly valid point, but since when does fucking Breitbart or any rigthwingnut hate media give the tiniest fuck about dead blacks?

Only when they can use the black-on-black killings to deflect from THEIR police killing blacks.

Absolutely, a valid point Don't forget the "All Lives Matter" BS

[diego]

All of that makes perfect sense. I just feel that the police killings, which probably number about 150 a year when you look at the ones that are truly questionable, get so much press. Rightfully so since again, cops should be in a position to protect and this should not be happening at all.

But when compared to the number of crimes committed by non-cops? Those numbers are truly staggering, numbering in the many-thousands. To me, that is the bigger issue because of the numbers. They are really two separate issues in my book, but when something harming 150 is getting so much play vs something harming 5000?

I get there are people doing things about the 5000 as well, but it doesn't seem to be treated with the same ferocity that cops aren't treated with (and perhaps it's solely because of the distrust and abuse of power angle). Maybe it's also easier to solve the cop issue and get attention so people really focus there.

But I percentage or not, I was still absolutely shocked to see that it was white people who are killed more by cops. I guess what bothers me is that you don't see the protesters up in arms about cop killings. It's about cops killing black people. To me, if you are for a cause, be for it all. Not just for your own. Sure when you look at % of population it stands to reason that whites would have higher numbers, but when you are talking about small numbers (not trying to be callous at all), it can skew percentages. The fact is whites by far are killed more than any other person by cops. It's not something where you are just seeing all black people killed and no whites. Cops are killing more whites than anyone and total numbers of questionable killings probably equal 500 (which is a ton, again, not marginalizing) compared to the 20,000 murders by regular people.

Yes, there are bad cops. And yes, cops abusing power goes far beyond normal murder, especially with the ridiculous "blue shield". However, one number stand out much more to me as a truly massive problem and that is the number of murders by other people.

You keep equating civilian crime with cop crime. Tell me, what percentage of civilian murderers get away with their crime? How many get paid leave for the terrible indignity of even being accused of murder? How many civilian murderers have their legal and civil costs paid for by taxpayers? It's not the same, at all. And the same way you can justify half of cops killings as "not questionable" whatever the hell that means, maybe some of those civilians feel the same way. With the police standard of "I was under threat / (I thought!) he was armed / they didn't do what I said when I said / they were committing another much lesser crime", you could easily cut down half or more of the civilian murders as well (well, unless your black, stand your ground doesn't count for you).

Finally, you are right it's not about blacks. It's about power. Poor white people get fucked plenty too. Still, the overall policing of whites vs minorities is clearly biased against minorities, be it traffic stops, drug arrests (despite wide evidence that whites consume more drugs), sentencing, etc etc etc. But there's no way to deflect on civilians

[diego]

Oops

[DPG21920]

I disagree about the "it doesn't seem to be treated with the same ferocity" statement especially. People, literally risk there live to make a difference in the inner cites. People have been killed for attempting to stop or slow down gang or criminal violence in the inner cities. That statement implies that blacks don't care as much about it. They do but it doesn't get as much cover from national news outlets.

Media covers topics that appeal to the broadest segments of population. Covering the escalating violence in the inner cities, can be used to form a narrative. If you've seen the movie "Nightcrawler" it touches on some of that. They don't tend to focus so much on community activists who are trying to make a difference.

Fighting inner city crime and police brutality isn't an either or scenario. Some blacks can focus on police reform and others can focus on "black on black crime" (a misnomer, of course)

To me, Police are supposed to be a part of the solution but further the problem. Blacks adopted "stop snitching" because they are wary of cops. They refuse to talk to them because of decades of mistrust.

They can and have killed innocent blacks and Hispanics without, much if any, repercussions. The cop who choked Eric Garner to death, is still employed by the city. Meanwhile, the taxpayers were stuck with a $5 million dollar bill as a result of a civil suit aimed at the NYPD.

As for the crime committed by non cops point. They are two separate issues but blacks asking for fair treatment and prosecution for cops committing criminal acts doesn't stop other blacks from trying to curb gang violence.

But aren't cops killing more whites than blacks or hispanics with the same impunity and lack of reprecussions?

[DPG21920]

You keep equating civilian crime with cop crime. Tell me, what percentage of civilian murderers get away with their crime? How many get paid leave for the terrible indignity of even being accused of murder? How many civilian murderers have their legal and civil costs paid for by taxpayers? It's not the same, at all. And the same way you can justify half of cops killings as "not questionable" whatever the hell that means, maybe some of those civilians feel the same way. With the police standard of "I was under threat / he was armed / they didn't do what I said when I said / they were committing another much lesser crime", you could easily cut down half or more of the civilian murders as well (well, unless your black, stand your ground doesn't count for you).

Finally, you are right it's not about blacks. It's about power. Poor white people get fucked plenty too. Still, the overall policing of whites vs minorities is clearly biased against minorities, be it traffic stops, drug arrests (despite wide evidence that whites consume more drugs), sentencing, etc etc etc. But there's no way to deflect on civilians in those areas so better to ignore them eh?

I never equated the two. In almost every post on the matter, I explicitly acknowledged I understood the difference between cops killing & civilians.

[diego]

I never equated the two. In almost every post on the matter, I explicitly acknowledged I understood the difference between cops killing & civilians.

You put 150 vs 5000 and went on to make comparisons and draw conclusions. For me, putting them together and Comparing the reaction / level of "ferocity" in two situations which you consider different is either stupid or intentionally misleading

[diego]

Sorry if Im coming off like an asshole, I wouldn't take the time to post if I thought you were just trolling but I do feel pretty strongly that your analysis is off. And like I said in my other post, perception of law enforcement / justice system goes well beyond just killings.

[DPG21920]

You put 150 vs 5000 and went on to make comparisons and draw conclusions. For me, putting them together and Comparing the reaction / level of "ferocity" in two situations which you consider different is either stupid or intentionally misleading

Well, I disagree. I'm being honest and also admitted it's a very complicated issue to me and perhaps my ignorance is showing.

Like Spike Lee said (and perhaps he said it better than I) and I agree with that everything sort of rings hollow when you look at the comparison I posted. Of course police should be held to a much different standard and all else being equal, it is infinitely worse when someone entrusted to protect does something to betray the people.

However, I don't feel it's equal or close due to sheer numbers. Also, while white people obviously have very little to complain about, it still does bother me that while more white people are killed than any other people by police, no one says a word. It's not about cops killing people, it's about a specific group. Seems like less of a cause and more of something else.

[DPG21920]

Sorry if Im coming off like an asshole, I wouldn't take the time to post if I thought you were just trolling but I do feel pretty strongly that your analysis is off. And like I said in my other post, perception of law enforcement / justice system goes well beyond just killings.

It's all good - it's a sensitive topic that many people do (and should) feel strongly about. A lot of this isn't even my opinion as much as it is questions. It does go way beyond killings and that makes perfect sense to me focusing on that. But when looking at killings, which is what all the rage/debate is about (rightfully so), that narrow focus is what draws my questions.

But yes, obviously when broadened beyond killing to just general profiling, mistreatment and abuse of power skewed towards minorirites it paints a really ugly picture.

[cd021]

But aren't cops killing more whites than blacks or hispanics with the same impunity and lack of reprecussions?
i would contend no. Whites don't get shoot when they are unarmed and seeking help after a serious wreck, or pulling out their wallets, or waiting for AAA by an officer who never identified themselves. Or shot 14 times as they are bleeding out on the ground

Its clear we aren't going to change each others minds, on this issue, but i disagree on your logic.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

i would contend no. Whites don't get shoot when they are unarmed and seeking help after a serious wreck, or pulling out their wallets, or waiting for AAA by an officer who never identified themselves. Or shot 14 times as they are bleeding out on the ground

Its clear we aren't going to change each others minds, on this issue, but i disagree on your logic.

Way to racist.

White kid getting shot in his driveway changed the law in the Northwest. They didn't use shitty divisive rhetoric and thinking like this. Sure black people are marginalized and taken advantage of at a much higher rate but to pretend that blacks are the only victim is completely counterproductive. If you insist on being considered differently then don't complain when you are treated differently.

[DPG21920]

i would contend no. Whites don't get shoot when they are unarmed and seeking help after a serious wreck, or pulling out their wallets, or waiting for AAA by an officer who never identified themselves. Or shot 14 times as they are bleeding out on the ground

Its clear we aren't going to change each others minds, on this issue, but i disagree on your logic.

So all the white people killed by cops, which greatly out number anyone else, all deserved it while the minorities are being wrongfully killed? Sounds a bit off

[rmt]

Aren't most of these killings being done at night? Please tell me why people aren't at home eating dinner, watching TV, playing video/computer games, etc? Why are they out on the street?

[cd021]

So all the white people killed by cops, which greatly out number anyone else, all deserved it while the minorities are being wrongfully killed? Sounds a bit off

Show me where i said that, or even implied that. I was referring to specific incidents. Those are examples that actually happened to blacks at the hands of police. I should have been more clear on that.

[cd021]

Way to racist.

White kid getting shot in his driveway changed the law in the Northwest. They didn't use shitty divisive rhetoric and thinking like this. Sure black people are marginalized and taken advantage of at a much higher rate but to pretend that blacks are the only victim is completely counterproductive. If you insist on being considered differently then don't complain when you are treated differently.

I been pretty clear in the past about my stance on police brutality, i wasn't in that past quote. By no means did I mean that being white and killed by the police means that they deserve it. The examples that i gave in that post were one's that actually happened to blacks at the hands of police.

I meant to use those examples to counter DPGs logic that since Caucasians are killed by police in higher, raw, totals then blacks should focus more on stopping black on black crime. My point is that the raw totals may be higher for Caucasians that doesn't mean they are treated worse by the police than minorities are. That's not to say they aren't.

[boutons_deux]

So all the white people killed by cops, which greatly out number anyone else, all deserved it while the minorities are being wrongfully killed? Sounds a bit off

Who says that besides you?

For cops to kill whites, the threshold is probably reasonably high, so a white being killed by cops probably deserves it.

For cops to kill blacks, the threshold is unreasonably low, so we see vids of cops killing blacks just because they can, for no real reason, and getting away with it.

[DPG21920]

Who says that besides you?

For cops to kill whites, the threshold is probably reasonably high, so a white being killed by cops probably deserves it.

For cops to kill blacks, the threshold is unreasonably low, so we see vids of cops killing blacks just because they can, for no real reason, and getting away with it.

Wow

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I been pretty clear in the past about my stance on police brutality, i wasn't in that past quote. By no means did I mean that being white and killed by the police means that they deserve it. The examples that i gave in that post were one's that actually happened to blacks at the hands of police.

I meant to use those examples to counter DPGs logic that since Caucasians are killed by police in higher, raw, totals then blacks should focus more on stopping black on black crime. My point is that the raw totals may be higher for Caucasians that doesn't mean they are treated worse by the police than minorities are. That's not to say they aren't.


Well your last quote is mutually exclusive with that take.

Black folks are institutionally marginalized. The DoJ report into Ferguson shows how its done all across the nation. The good ole boys elitism is still alive and well particularly in the south.

DPG is a binary simpleton who is trying to put it into all or nothing terms. Don't allow him to force that simpleminded nonsense.

[CosmicCowboy]

It just came out Porter was one vote from acquittal in the most serious charge...(involuntary manslaughter)

[boutons_deux]

It just came out Porter was one vote from acquittal in the most serious charge...(involuntary manslaughter)

They all will be acquitted to brutalize and murder again, and again, and they know it.

[CosmicCowboy]

You are a sick fuck, Boo.

[Clipper Nation]

Baltimore's murder rate is now more akin to what was normal in the Middle Ages than today:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/06/why-living-in-some-u-s-cities-is-literally-like-living-the-middle-ages/

This also goes for other hellholes, such as Shitcago, Detroit, DC, and Oakland, where racist liberals have made it impossible for the cops to do their jobs. The War on Cops truly is an embarrassment to our entire country.

[Winehole23]

In the last decade Chicago PD paid out half a billion dollars to citizens it abused.

They're doing it wrong.

[Winehole23]

in times of historically low levels of violent crime...


racist liberals have made it impossible for the cops to do their jobs

...:dramaquee

[Winehole23]

which is to kill colored people with impunity and zero public scrutiny, right? and any criticism of this is disloyalty to police?

bullshit

[Winehole23]

more deep background:


Baltimore officials today approved a $9 million settlement — the largest in city history — to James “J.J.” Owens, who spent two decades in prison for a murder he didn’t commit.


Owens’ case, and that of another man prosecuted for the same crime, was the subject of an investigation by ProPublica and The Atlantic (https://www.propublica.org/article/what-does-an-innocent-man-have-to-do-alford-plea-guilty) last September that examined how defendants are pressured into controversial plea deals despite proof of their innocence.


Owens’ payout adds to Baltimore’s growing tab for decades of misconduct by its police force. In November, a jury awarded another wrongfully convicted Baltimore man, Sabein Burgess, $15 million. Like Owens, Burgess had sued, alleging civil rights violations by detectives.


Because Baltimore is self-insured, city taxpayers are ultimately on the hook for these payouts, which total $24 million in the last six months alone.


Now the city is girding itself for more costly lawsuits in the aftermath of a massive police corruption scandal that led to the conviction of eight officers earlier this year.
https://www.propublica.org/article/baltimore-to-pay-largest-settlement-in-city-history-9-million-to-man-wrongfully-convicted-of-murder

[Winehole23]

But in 2006, semen found in the victim was tested, and the DNA didn’t match Owens or Thompson. Other key forensic evidence proved to be unrelated to the men or wrongly analyzed. Instead of letting the men go free, the Baltimore state’s attorney’s office doubled down. After Owens was granted a new trial, the prosecutors refused to concede his innocence and instead tried to force him into a troubling deal known as an Alford plea. If he took it, Owens would be quickly released from prison and allowed to maintain his innocence on the record, but he’d still be a convicted murderer. And, significantly for cities with checkered histories, the deal would have prevented him from suing. For their part, prosecutors would keep a win on the books and avoid admitting a mistake.


Owens refused, and prosecutors left him languishing in prison for 16 months before admitting there wasn’t enough evidence to re-try him. On the day his new trial was set to begin in October 2008, the prosecutor dropped the charges, and Owens walked out fully exonerated. Thompson, however, took the Alford plea and was left with no recourse to sue for his own wrongful incarceration.